Many soldiers get boot for 'pre-existing' mental illness (Denied Coverage)

[RamboLiberal]

Source: St. Louis Post-Dispatch

Thousands of U.S. soldiers in Iraq — as many as 10 a day — are
being discharged by the military for mental health reasons. But the Pentagon
isn't blaming the war. It says the soldiers had "pre-existing" conditions that
disqualify them for treatment by the government.

Many soldiers and Marines being discharged on this basis actually suffer from
combat-related problems, experts say. But by classifying them as having a
condition unrelated to the war, the Defense Department is able to quickly get
rid of troops having trouble doing their work while also saving the expense of
caring for them.

The result appears to be that many actually suffering from combat-related
problems such as post-traumatic stress disorder or traumatic brain injuries
don't get the help they need.

Working behind the scenes, Sens. Christopher "Kit" Bond, R-Mo., and Barack
Obama, D-Ill., have written and inserted into the defense authorization bill a
provision that would make it harder for the Pentagon to discharge thousands of
troops. The Post-Dispatch has learned that the measure has been accepted into
the Senate defense bill and will probably become part of the Senate-House bill
to be voted on this week.


Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/washington/story/B8F5491DEDE1CF2C8625736500190F67?OpenDocument

---

Another scam for the cheap bastards to get out of paying for their war. Way to SUPPORT THE TROOPS! :sarcasm:

[Ganja Ninja]

1. What ever happened to Catch 22? n/t

[JPZenger]

9. Explanation of Catch 22

For you younger folks, here's an explanation of Catch 22, which is the title of a book about WWII bomber crews. This is an excerpt from the book:

"There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions.

Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to he was sane and had to.

Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle."

[goddess40]

2. If your an American you must be predisposed to killing Innocent people

if not your mentally ill. At least that's the view of the freepers in this country

[Doctor_J]

3. Bush's DoD loves the troops!

Filthy scum. The MSM will stay far away from this story.

[saigon68]

29. No the Chimp's War Criminal Generals love the $$$$$$$ they are

about to make in their cushy civilian jobs they get when they "retire" to the other half of the military-industrial complex

[pinto]

4. multiple, longer deployments; constant threat level; and (ironically) better trauma care:

from the same article

The issue of personality-disorder discharges is a window into the broader problem of psychological damage to Iraq veterans, which experts say has three main causes:

— Multiple and longer deployments.

— The stress of fighting an insurgency with no breaks and everyone always on the front line.

— Better and faster medical care that helps troops survive horrific physical injuries that often leave psychological scars.

"You land in Iraq, and you're on the battlefield, whether you're a quartermaster or a medic or a cook," said David Segal, director of the Center for Research on Military Organizations at the University of Maryland. "All you have to do is get on the highway to go somewhere from the airport."

I'm glad to see some legislative response to this. Some 22,000 discharges in 6 years...

[RamboLiberal]

7. I just wondered if Bush would dare to insert one of his

"signing statements" nullifying what Obama and Bond have written in to this bill.

[hlthe2b]

5. Remember the story last week of the mental testing of recruits?

They are just setting them up for this....:mad:

[yardwork]

6. Support our troops.

[MissMillie]

8. I've been hearing about this all year

NPR did a great story on this

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12234129

[aquart]

10. I want to strangle whoever's pulling this.

Right up the chain. Then I want to extract their flaming brass balls with hot tongs.

What? Torture's legal.

[valerief]

11. Pretty soon those missing limbs caused by war will be labeled as

pre-existing.

Logic and truth don't factor into the tyranny lifestyle.

[suston96]

12. Used to be.....

Unless there was a medical record of a pre-existing condition that was withheld from the recruiter, the military buys the recruit - body and soul, I mean mind.

That the military can determine a pre-existing condition at discharge to suit its own purposes of withholding disability claims is bullshit!

This is the wrong time for any politicals to be screwing the troops.

[Cerridwen]

13. But they were mentally healthy enough to enlist?

'Scuse me?!

Those troops were not drafted. They enlisted. Supposedly, they met certain requirements. So is the DoD ready to admit they're recruiting mentally ill people? If not, you broke 'em, you "fix" 'em.

They don't get to have it both ways.


Edit to add: time to reframe the debate "Military recruiters focus on mentally ill to fill quotas"

[TomInTib]

15. The Lowered Bar

The DoD had to know that this would be one of the results of lower requirements for enlistees.

They are just sucking them in and spitting out the ones who don't fit.

[Cerridwen]

16. The thing is, though I know that in some instances it is true they're recruiting

mentally unhealthy people, what the DoD is doing is denying care to those who really are the "combat fatigued" variety; in other words, these men and women were okay going in and they're no so okay after several tours with little rest or care.

I know you know that. I just want to make it clear to those who many not.

So, either the DoD has to fess up to recruiting mentally unhealthy people or they have to fess up to the fact that people are not mentally able to take the effects of fighting in wars.

As it is, they're trying to have it both ways at the same time. I ain't buyin'.

[TomInTib]

23. This reminds me of another time and another place.

Around 1969/70, the Army started signing just about anyone who could walk into the recruiting station without assistance.

We used to run into some of those lunatics in bars and thank our lucky stars that we were never around them in a Bad Place.

They were thoroughly unstable.

You know, that is how the "Jesus Freak" movement got it's start.

All of these Evangelical missionaries started getting access to those poor bastards, who were desperate for anything to cling to.

They used to come in the bars with their Bibles and start in on us. We would usually toss them out into the street.

But the poor souls you are referring to are SOL. Just look at the treatment that the victims of Agent Orange didn't receive.

My heart goes out to these kids. Unprepared and under-trained, they had no ides what kind of Hell they were in for.

I saw a lot of the same thing in SE Asia. We were Special Forces, so we had been completely conditioned and never really had many bad problems.

[Cerridwen]

25. "we had been completely conditioned and never really had many bad problems."

Tom, I gotta tell ya, that sentence about broke my heart.

I'm happy for you that your conditioning helped you to get through whatever was asked of you. Having said that, I don't know if I can express how horrifically sad it makes me feel to hear someone talk about being conditioned in such a way as to not have "had many bad problems" in response to doing whatever it was that was asked of you. What we do and have done in our name to our fellow human beings is, ... I don't have the words for it. Horrific. Barbaric. Evil. Disgusting. Disgraceful. No, none of those words come near what I think about what you said. Not against you, Tom, but those "in charge" who would and do see nothing wrong with conditioning members of the human race with such disregard for a person's humanity.

We as a species, do we have a right to exist with that in our "soul"? I sometimes wonder.

[Tansy_Gold]

21. Somebody needs to sue

A friend was spouting off the other day about "that woman who got three million bucks from McDonald's for being stupid enough to open a cup of coffee while she was driving her car," and I got all bent out of shape giving him the facts about 79-year-old Stella Liebeck, a parked car, and a corporate policy of keeping coffee hot enough to produce third-degree burns in 2 to 7 seconds because it was more profitable to pay off a few little claims than actually care about customers' safety.

Point being, Liebeck's suit prompted McDonald's to lower the temperature of their coffee so no more infants were scalded when teen-aged employees accidentally spilled coffee on them.

There are all these wounded, injured, PTSD'd veterans walking/stumbling around without health care. Who knows how many lives their disabilities are impacting? And too often, apparently, they are like the 700 victims of McDonald's too-hot coffee who settled for whatever the corporation was willing to give them before Stella came along and said, "I don't think so!"

Someone has to stand up to the behemoth. Someone has to lawyer up and say, to the courts and to the press (such as it is), "My son/daughter/wife/husband/mother/father had no demonstrable mental illness prior to being accepted into the United State military and being sent to Iraq. The injuries suffered there, both/either physical and/or psychological, are a direct result of military service. Not an indirect result, but a direct result. As Colin Powell (ugh) said, you break it, you buy it. You now own my son/daughter/wife/husband/mother/father and you are responsible for her/his care."

The First Amendment gives us the right to petition the government for redress of grievances. I think we got us one whale of a grievance.


Tansy Gold, who does *not* think we should first kill all the lawyers

[Cerridwen]

24. Don't forget the Ford Pinto next time you need to set your friend straight about

some of those "heinous" lawsuits. Also, if I remember correctly, the woman who was scalded with the coffee had started by asking them to pay her medical bills and filed suit after they refused. They had also been warned on several previous occasions about the temperature of the coffee. That suit was not at all what was painted by the media. We had a propaganda machine for "mainstream media" long before this cabal took over.

The only thing that worries me about lawsuits these days is that I'm not sure how far the r/w cancer has spread in our judicial system. I was fighting stealth candidates and warning about r/w-nuts in lawyers clothing about 30 years ago. They've had at least that long to metastacize (if you'll pardon a poorly worded metaphor). Also, as I type this, I think I remember that our government entities are immune from lawsuits? If that's correct, these people are more than just screwed and we'll all be paying the price for a long time.

But, yeah, I like your fundamental idea; lawsuits are about the only redress we have these days; short of out and out armed revolution.

[Tansy_Gold]

26. The Ford Pinto was indeed one of the examples I cited

when I gave him the details of the case. McDonald's, like Ford, had a policy acknowledging that it was cheaper -- therefore more profitable -- to pay claims than to lower the temperature of the coffee. In the Liebeck trial, evidence was presented of approximately 700 such pay-offs. She wanted $20,000 to cover the cost of her medical treatment; McDonald's offered $800 and refused mediation. That's when she sued.

Better yet, of course, would be a series of individual suits. Not a class action to start with, but just individual cases to build a body of precedents.

Look how many years the Catholic Church got away with ignoring, denying, and hiding its pedophile priests. Now, at last, some of them are paying. If the Catholic Church can be brought face to face with the reality of its own making, surely the DoD can.


Tansy Gold, who has far more faith in "the system," broken and infiltrated by demons as it is, than in any church

editted to add
P.S. -- The government can be sued, though I believe you have to kind of get the federal government's "permission" to sue it. In some cases, however, the individuals in office can't be sued, but in other cases they can. I'm thinking specifically of environmental cases where the secy of interior or director of EPA is named as defendant. HOWEVER -- I am NOT a lawyer and don't pretend to be one.

[Cerridwen]

27. Well, I shoulda known you would know that.

:D

I'm in a cynical mood today, so read this with that in mind; or perhaps stop reading here.

The thing is, the Catholic Church, the institution that it is, is not in fact "paying" for the priests and their actions. It is the individual Diocese and congregations who are being asked to pay; monetarily and otherwise. The institution that is the church continues on its merry little way and continues to deny the criminal actions of its priests. Were they actually held accountable, they'd have been bankrupted by now. My opinion. YMMV.

And, continuing on my cynical way, I don't think the system is in fact, broken. I think it's working exactly as those who benefit from it, choose to have it work. I think the only "broken" pieces are those few things left to "We, the People" but which are gradually being destroyed as I type this.

As I said, I'm in a cynical mood.

[Raejeanowl]

28. Excellent Point

Having had the opportunity to screen out the "unfit," how do you repudiate your own final selections?

[Cerridwen]

31. Funny how the DoD doesn't see that, innit?

Or doesn't admit to seeing it? Or just re-writes history one day at a time a la "1984".

I don't recognize this country or many of its people any more; or maybe I recognize them but the first thought I have isn't "American" when I do.

[w8liftinglady]

14. the list of pre-existing conditions that are screened for.I call Bullshit

http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/613004p.pdf
go to section 1.25

[sofa king]

18. Wow!

E1.25.15 Current or history of alcohol dependence, drug dependence, alcohol abuse, or other drug abuse is disqualifying.

E1.25.16 Current or history of other mental disorders... that in the opinion of the civilian or military provider shall interfere with, or prevent satisfactory performance of military duty are disqualifying.

Alcoholism and alcohol abuse often goes hand-in-hand with PTSD (60-80% of Vietnam-era PTSD patients reported alcohol problems).

So if you have PTSD and drink, you can be discharged and denied treatment for PTSD. That's a Catch-22.

And of course the last provision is a catch-all designed to screw over anyone they left out in the preceding forty pages.

[ramapo]

17. Yep..I know of such a case

A friend's relative served in Iraq. Came back with all kinds of problems. He's been denied benefits and care because it was determined he had pre-existing mental health issues. Total BS. Just a way to keep costs down and statistics favorable.

[Cronopio]

19. Seems like The Thousand-Yard Stare would be a prerequisite for Iraq service.

They need all the Animal Mothers they can get over there.

[JPZenger]

20. Personality Disorders Used to Deny Coverage

The following is a good article about how the military is using claims of personality disorders to force wounded vets out of the system and to deny them coverage.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070409/kors

[0rganism]

22. Catch 22 gets an update: "you had to be crazy to join up in the first place..."

"...ergo you had a pre-existing condition, and we don't have to pay for your psychiatric care."

Pentagon bureaucrat assholes should have their offices relocated to Anbar ASAP. Let them feel the love.

[Megahurtz]

30. How Very Corporate Of Them.

Typical from the New United Corporations of America! :puke:

[gratuitous]

32. I'm sure these are just phony soldiers

Let's wait for eminent psychiatrist Rush Limbaugh to weigh in on the matter. I'm sure he'll be able to tip the scales* in favor of all these nutso pre-existing conditions.

*If you know what I mean, and I think you do.

[harpboy_ak]

33. Anchorage Daily News Editorial: This is betrayal

From today's Anchorage Daily News:

http://www.adn.com/opinion/view/story/9347496p-9262027c.html

This is betrayal

Personality disorder discharges save money, sacrifice soldiers

Published: October 2, 2007
Last Modified: October 2, 2007 at 03:06 AM

Let's put ourselves in these shoes for a moment, if we can:

You've honorably served in the Army for seven years. You've won commendations. You re-enlisted after your first hitch. You're in Ramadi, Iraq, in 2004 when a rocket hits the building you're in and leaves you unconscious in rubble. Eventually doctors pull shrapnel from your neck and ear canals. You lose 75 percent of your hearing, suffer depression and nightmares.

You try to kill yourself by dropping a hair dryer in your bath water. The dryer short-circuits. You seek medical help at your Army post.

Eventually, the Army discharges you because you had a "pre-existing personality disorder" before you joined the service.

And what does that mean?

• You can't get disability pay. That requires a medical board evaluation, and a soldier who signs a personality disorder discharge gets no medical board.

• You can't get VA medical care -- you can't be treated for post-traumatic stress syndrome -- because the VA treats only those wounds and conditions suffered in service. "Pre-existing condition" is the Pentagon's way of saying the Ramadi rocket had nothing to do with the soldier's troubles.

• You must pay back part of your re-enlistment bonus for the time you won't serve because of the personality-disorder discharge.

All of this happened to former Spc. Jon Town of Findlay, Ohio. This spring and summer, with reports in The Nation and ABC News, Mr. Town became a symbol for veterans groups, because he's not alone.

The military has mustered out about 22,000 service people in the last six years with personality-disorder discharges. It appears that a lot of them were flat-out bogus, as in the case of Mr. Town, or at least contestable.

There's a gut-reaction word for what happened to Mr. Town, but we can't use it in a family newspaper.

Why are the services doing this?

Money.

The departments of Defense and Veterans Affairs save money if they don't have to pay benefits.

God almighty, let us take a deep breath.

A bipartisan group of senators led by Barack Obama of Illinois and Christopher Bond of Missouri has introduced a provision in the defense bill to stop the personality-disorder discharges pending investigations by the General Accountability Office (the GAO already is looking into the practice at Fort Carson, Kan.) and impose tougher standards and limits on such discharges.

Good for the senators.

Where's the commander in chief? A few words from the White House lawn -- strong words, Mr. President, leader's words -- would go far to end this kind of nonsense.

Some personality-disorder discharges are no doubt valid, and those no longer able to function in a theater of war shouldn't be there. But any soldier who has served in Iraq or Afghanistan should get the benefit of the doubt. Soldiers subject to personality-disorder discharges must be fully informed of their rights and all the consequences of such a discharge before signing one.

You don't have to be a psychiatrist or a soldier to understand that rockets, IEDs and sniper rounds are not pre-existing conditions. One god-awful argument to justify personality-disorder discharges was that dormant pre-existing conditions surface under the stress of combat; hence such soldiers don't qualify for treatment of post traumatic stress disorder.

In response, we refer to that word we can't print in a family newspaper.

The United States has a solemn obligation to those among us who were asked to wage war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Let's keep it.

BOTTOM LINE: Let's take care of our wounded troops -- not look for ways to deny care.