Sniper team tells of pressure from above

[RamboLiberal]

Source: LA Times

Here they were, hardened combat soldiers, grounded on a military base far from the palm groves, canals and marshes where they once prowled.

But at least for a moment this week, they were still the Painted Demons, the elite sniper unit that struck fear in the so-called triangle of death south of Baghdad. That couldn't be taken away: not by breaking them up, as the Army had done, and not even by the murder trials of three of their members at Camp Victory.

They surrounded Sgt. Evan Vela, whose preliminary hearing on murder charges began Sunday morning. Vela, a stocky 23-year-old, bear-hugged them, smiling and laughing. He looked nothing like the man who had broken down on the witness stand days before, at the trial of a fellow sniper. Then, he had spoken in barely audible tones about firing two bullets at point-blank range into an Iraqi detainee's head, allegedly on the orders of Staff Sgt. Michael A. Hensley, the leader of the Painted Demons.

Interviews and court transcripts portray a 13-man sniper unit that felt under pressure to produce a high body count, a Vietnam-era measure that the Pentagon officially has disavowed in this war. They describe a sniper unit whose margins of right and wrong were blurred: by Hensley, if you believe Army prosecutors; by the Army, if you believe the accused.

The main line of defense for Vela and Hensley is a shocking one: In its zeal to get more "kills" out of snipers, officers of the 1st Battalion, 501st Infantry Regiment allegedly pushed a program of leaving weaponry as "bait," and allowing snipers to kill anyone who came to pick the items up. That, defense attorneys say, led to loose rules of engagement that the Army now says amounted to murder.



Read more: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-sniper5oct05,0,5800902.story?coll=la-home-center

[mediaman007]

1. I really have a hard time with the "support the troops" mantra.

I think that this "war on terror" has so corrupted our military that I can't even go to "support the troops, but not the mission." These soldiers in no way represent the our country. The all-volunteer military is a case of massive brain washing. Too many troops are more loyal to their units and their branch of service than they are to their own families. They could care less about honor.

[DS1]

2. It's not the troops in this case

It's order from above. Negroponte comes to mind. I know a lot of snipers, and none of them would do this kind of shit unless they were ordered to. Of course, that brings into question, why would they follow those orders, but these guys are trained to follow orders and get kills.

[rusty quoin]

3. These guys are so young who come out of basic training,

and further training. It is easy for the military to manipulate a young person. I was in the military, but it was a good organization at that time. With the pressure above...you don't disobey an order.

[acmavm]

5. They wouldn't do that shit unless ordered? So that makes it okay?

They don't have a duty to say no when it comes to murder?

[w4rma]

6. Young soldiers usually aren't given enough information to make ethical, much less split-second

ethical, decisions about this type of order. Most soldiers go in with a high-school education and don't get their college education (and the critical thinking classes that come along with it) until *after* they have served.

[acmavm]

7. Oh please. It's not training. It's part of being a moral, decent,

honest, compassionate human being. There is nothing anywhere that says murder of unarmed people is okay. NOTHING!!

If these fucks don't have that down by the time they're old enough to go out of the house unsupervised (let alone enlist) then we are soooooooooo screwed.

[monktonman]

4. You better get along with supporting our troops.

These guys are our only hope of ending this war. Without them we have nothing.
Its obvious that no one in Washington is listening to us, they could give a fuck, but
boy dont they all get into a tizzy when some soldier gets on the news and says this shit is
wrong. Look no further than the latest Rush Limdrug hype thats all over the news. Why do you think they are so upset about this??? Because they know, just like Viet Nam, things didnt really start to change until the regular army guys started spaeking up. LOOK AT JOHN KERRY. He built his career on the fact that he had the balls to speak out. Without that where would he be? Or us for that matter. For that alone he's A FUCKING HEROE!!!!!!!
Also keep in mind, these guys dont have to be brainwashed to go along. Look at what your prominsed when you sign up. Your family will be taken care of, you'll have the best health care money can buy, cheap loans, etc. Maybe I'm just stupid but, if I was in a jam and I wanted to secure a good future for my family, I'd take that deal.
If you wouldnt....it is YOU that is without honor sir!
How dare you.

[Lost4words]

8. Calm down a little...

[FormerRepub]

9. Supporting our troops

When it comes down to it, the best way to "support our troops" is to elect a commander in chief who is brainy & understands international relations. Even "good" people do "bad" things when they're placed in chaotic life/death situations. It will always be so.

An unholy Republican Party coalition of neocons and the religious right has produced the most dangerous and divisive adminsitration this country has seen to date. I have been writing letters to the N Y Times (yes, I was actually published in above the fold) and to our local newspaper since the next morning after G. W. Bush was re-elected in 2004 in an area where I was about the only one warning against this monsrously stupid and dangerous regime. I am very relieved that so many others including service men/women (active and retired) are now voicing similar protests.

Until Bush-Cheney are out of office, our only hope is to persuade Republican Senators & Representatives to try to prevail on Bush-Cheney to permanently shelve their "contingency" plans to unilaterally attack Iran. These guys are too stupid and arrogant to learn from experience.