Grad student suspended after pro gun rights e-mail

[SecularMotion]

Source: Cnet News

A Minnesota university has suspended one of its graduate students who sent two e-mail messages to school officials supporting gun rights.

Hamline University also said that master's student Troy Scheffler, who owns a firearm, would be barred from campus and must receive a mandatory "mental health evaluation" after he sent an e-mail message arguing that law-abiding students should be able to carry firearms on campus for self-defense.

Hamline spokesman Jacqueline Getty declined on Wednesday to answer questions about the suspension, saying that federal privacy laws prohibited the school from commenting. Scheffler had previously waived his privacy rights in a letter to Hamline University President Linda Hanson.

The nonpartisan civil liberties group FIRE, which stands for the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education, has taken up Scheffler's case, but with no luck so far. In a letter to FIRE on September 28, Hamline's attorneys said the school would not reconsider Scheffler's punishment.

Read more: http://www.news.com/8301-13578_3-9795510-38.html

[Ian David]

1. After a brief look at the site, it appears that FIRE actually IS non-partisan

http://www.thefire.org/


Colorado State University Upholds Free Speech for Student Editorials

October 5, 2007

Colorado State University’s Board of Student Communications agreed with FIRE and chose not to punish the editor of its student newspaper, which late last month ran an editorial that read, “Taser this…F*** BUSH.” Rocky Mountain Collegian editor J. David McSwane was admonished for making a choice that the Board deemed “unethical and unprofessional.” But the Board fully accepted FIRE’s position, stating that the editorial “was an expression of opinion, which we regard as protected by the First Amendment.”
Read Full Article »
http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/8455.html

<snip>

Victory for Freedom of Speech at Indiana University–South Bend

Wrongful Sanctions Against Student Journalist Reversed, but Concerns Remain

September 20, 2007

Indiana University–South Bend has reversed its decision against a student reporter who was found guilty of “conduct that is lewd, indecent or obscene” for interviewing members of a campus group about their production of the play “The Vagina Monologues.” Student Robert Francis appealed to FIRE, which successfully pressured the university to overturn its unjust decision. FIRE wrote to IUSB explaining that the school could not, under the First Amendment, find Francis guilty of improper conduct simply because he asked questions and made comments that some would interpret as offensive. FIRE also highlighted the clear double standard at work in this case—that IUSB wanted to punish Francis for engaging in the same type of speech used in the performance of the play.
Read Full Article » http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/8411.html

[comtec]

2. What utter crap! So much for Universities being a place of HIGHER learning and DEBATE!~

"I may not like what you say, but I will fight to the death, your right to say it!"

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

6. Did you read the e-mails?

I'd have tossed him in a New York minute. This guy has some serious issues. What's startling is that he's allowed to carry a concealed weapon at all.

[Mike Daniels]

21. Making sexist and racist comments doesn't make you unstable

Ignorant maybe, but not necessarily unstable.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

24. did you read the emails? they struck me as unstable.

unstable guy wanting to bring a gun on campus. if this doesnt alarm an institution i dont know what will.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

33. Racist. Sexist. Angry. Packing

Not a good combination.

[comtec]

25. I take back my earlier statements, knee jerk reaction... I have now read his Emails

And um.. yeah...:blush:
A psychological examination might not be enough...
I'd say a stay at the local happy house, and a revocation of his permits...

As far as the sub standard quality of education, what is/was his GPA?
I have gone to schools where it is entirely possible to pass w/o opening you OWN book once. This can be done a couple ways, one is have a GOOD study partner, a competent instructor whose lectures n notes are so amazing, there is no need to open the book (had a couple of those over the years) and maybe he's using a library copy. Still most of those examples requires him to be paying attention...

It's sad that anyone so hateful can even be admitted into College, let alone get so far. Hopefully the police have been informed and they are tailing him like the dog he his.

My reaction is simply a knee jerk, because so much VALID criticism in the last 10 years has met with such harsh repercussions, when a intelligent point was made. :bows head in shame: My bad for not researching this more before posting.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

11. universities have an obligation to keep campus safe for students too

havign an unhinged guy walking around, wanting to bring a gun in, doesnt sound safe.

[woodsprite]

12. Amen! That's exactly what I think about my coworkers too. n/t

[Somawas]

14. I think that's wrong.

I don't see anything in the emails that indicate the guy is unhinged or a danger to anyone, including himself. Claiming he needs a "psych eval;uation" and should be suspended pending that result in an anti-libertarian punishment for opinion.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

15. sorry but as the president of an institution safety of students and faculty is a concern

and those emails sounds angry, racist, and in many ways scary.

[Somawas]

22. If you think that justifies suppressing free speech rights

then I fear that all is lost. Angry and racist do not equal crazy or dangerous.

[mac56]

28. "Angry and racist" may not equal "crazy or dangerous"...

but "angry, racist, and armed" might.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

29. dramatic much? i believe someone who rants and raves that everythign is someone elses fault

and then want to get a gun to be armed against said someone else. an alarm bell should go off.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

31. "free speech rights"

Nobody's suppressing his free speech rights.

Jeez, sounds like something this guy would say.

[Somawas]

36. Suspending the guy and making him have psych testing

is not suppression his free speech rights? That's just too PC for me.

I still think that no law abridging means no. law. abridging.

[struggle4progress]

37. Many folk here is gonna blow. I totally understands. So why the hell can't I bring my gun to school?

:eyes:

[LanternWaste]

50. So you're one of those guys who thinks...

So you're one of those guys who thinks yelling "Bomb!!!" on an airplane is abridging. your. rights.?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

30. The guy's a racist and sexist.

It's clear he's got no interest in higher education.

Fuck him.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

32. he's a lunatic racist with anger problems and he wants to bring a gun to campus

:scared:

[Sneaky Sailor]

44. I forgot, rascists and sexists cant get an education

Got it.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

47. racists and sexists who are coming apart and are angry and want to bring a gun to school

pose a public threat

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

48. You should do like comtec did and read the e-mails.

[EstimatedProphet]

49. Are you actually trying to argue for racism and sexism?

[LanternWaste]

51. You got it...

You got it-- but it's they're the ones making that choice, no one else.

[superconnected]

34. No, if the guys emails appeared mentally disturbed and the school didn't

do something to get him off campus and help then they would be at fault.

We haven't seen his emails. It's one thing to have free speech and support gun rights, it's another to come off as mentally unstable.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

3. sounds like was suspending for sending racist and sexist emails.

he sounds pretty unhinged in those emails.

what if he did bring a gun in and shoot the minorities down?

would we not have blamed the president on the university for not taking better action?

[Mend]

5. if he spells "truly" as "truley" what is he doing in graduate school...I know

he is smarter than all the rest of us a superior white male but he walks, talks, and spells like a moran freeper. (second email) May I suggest an immediate transfer to Oral Roberts or Bob Jones where he can be with his own kind.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

7. there are several spelling errors in his superior race emails.

i appreciated the irony.

[Irreverend IX]

4. The guy's email comments don't do much to endear me to him...

Hell, I'd flunk anyone with grammar like his from an undergrad program, let alone graduate. However, I see nothing threatening in his emails and it looks like the school is using the cloak of "confidentiality" to purge him due to his opinions. Kind of like how you can be disappeared to Gitmo on evidence that can't be revealed because of "national security concerns."

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. if someone claimed superior race and then wanted to bring a gun to school

i would suspend him pending a psych evaluation.

if it is my school and i am responsible for the wellbeing of my students, i would be worried.

[Dhalgren]

13. I truly believe that if his email had been calm and lucid and he had

made his (dubious) arguments in an academic, logical manner there would have been no problem. Calm and studied debate would have not set off the "red flags". And there are so many "red flags" in his emails that you can hardly read them for the flutter...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

17. i agree. this was not a rational debate for guns on campus

it was a clear issue of blaming other people for ones problems and had a lot of anger. these issues can erupt in violence.

i would have suspended him too.

[Dhalgren]

19. I agree completely.

As "crazy" as it sounds to advocate weaponry on campus, you could do so without the anger and racist vitriol. I support the university's administration in this matter whole-heartedly...

[sinkingfeeling]

9. His 'superior white, male as victim' rants are enough for me to support the university's

suspension of him until a complete mental health evaluation is done. He is a very angry young man who is blaming minorities and 'un-christians' for all his problems. I wouldn't want him on my campus.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. exactly what i thought. the guys needs a psych evaluation

[wicket]

16. This part of the 2nd email is what really got to me:

Yes, I obviously feel that Hamline has been a serious let down, so far I am almost finished with half of my MAPA degree and havent even cracked a book. All the books that came in plastic wrap are still in plastic wrap despite the ridiculous amounts students are charged. I have yet to hear a student in my cohort that is happy with the curriculum or quality of professors. Why does this school charge so much for such a substandard education?

He emails the president of his Uni & admits to not even opening a book yet. And yet it's the school's fault he's getting a "substandard education" when he's not even making an effort??

[mac56]

18. Hamline has the right to suspend any student, any time it wants

for any reason.

They're not expelling him, whether or not they have the legal right to do so.

They want him to have an evaluation. That's all.

I suspect they're being mindful of Virginia Tech. Good for them.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

20. did you read the emails? i would have suspended him too.

[slackmaster]

23. I read the emails, the guy sounds unhinged and on the edge

I think I would have suspended him too.

[Trajan]

40. I neednt read any other posts ....

If Slack says it's proper to take this fella down ..... Then I know damn well it is ....

Plus: It's too damned late to read any more ....

Case closed ....

[slackmaster]

46. That's quite a compliment, Trajan!

Thank you!

:toast:

[Turbineguy]

26. "victim disarmament zones"

Nice expression that. Kind of 10th Century.

[SyntaxError]

27. How the hell did he get into graduate school with such poor grammar and spelling?

Argh... Anyways, despite his rather screwed up view points, I'm not sure if I like the idea of schools suspending people just because of their world view. Then again, the fact that the guy probably has a few firearms of his own, and is obviously angry, and a bit off, they do have reason to be concerned. Then again, he didn't make any specific threats. I dunno, I just don't like the idea of the thought police going after people. This specific issue may not seem too bad, but how about when it's used to justify getting rid of people who have the same views as you or me?

Of course, if they didn't do something and he came in and ended up doing something crazy, I'd be asking why the hell they didn't do anything... lol, I'm an unreasonable asshat, ain't I?

[slackmaster]

45. I worked as Basic Writing tutor when I was an undergraduate at UCSD

You'd be shocked if you saw the incoherent scrawlings of some of the people I worked with, including doctoral candidates.

[superconnected]

35. The Emails

E-mail from Troy Scheffler to Hamline University Vice President of Student Affairs David Stern, April 17, 2007
From: Troy Scheffler
To: [e-mail]
Subject: I dont think the students need the counseling...
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 10:54 PM

Considering this university also pushes “diversity” initiatives like VA Tech, maybe its “leadership” will reconsider its ban on conceal carry law abiding gun owners... Ironically, according to a few VA Tech forums, there are plenty of students complaining that this wouldnt have happened if the school wouldnt have banned their permits a few months ago...

I just dont understand why leftists dont understand that criminals dont care about laws; that is why they’re criminals... Maybe this school will reconsider its repression of law abiding citizens rights.

Considering that accoriding to the university president that there were recently serious “hate crimes” that were committed in the womens bathrooms; there may be people on the edge ready to snap. I cant say I blame them, I myself am tired of having to pay my own extremely overpriced tuition to make up for minorities not paying theirs. On top of that, I am sick of seeing them held to a different standard than the white students (Of course its a lower and more lenient standard).

Oh by the way, when is your “diversity” department going to include European ancestry?


Respectfully,
Troy Scheffler


---------------------
E-mail from Troy Scheffler to Hamline University President Linda Hanson, April 19, 2007
>>> “Troy Scheffler” > 4/19/2007 10:15 PM >>

I was wondering why a swastika painted by some frustrated ladies in their bathroom turned somehow into red flags of a hate crime but you dont consider an asian guy admittedly killing people because he hated them not hate motivated... Anyhow, in response to your most recent email concerning a vigil for people most likely nobody in the school knows; I would like to comment on your claims of upped “security”. I attend a MPLS cohort so I dont see any security in the area ever. Infact it seems the dirty bums on the street are the only ones patrolling anything. I would suggest if you are truley concerned about student security, you lift a ridiculous conceal carry campus ban and let the students worry about their own “security”. VA Tech just recently passed their conceal carry permit ban; we can all see how well that worked for criminal minds. Ironically, many students from VA Tech are in online forums which I can direct you to complaining that 32 people wouldnt have died in the students rights were not infringed by
banning their legal right to carry their arms on their person. They take the argument that they would have shot the guy before he was able to massacre that many people; I on the other hand would argue that the guy wouldnt have even attempted this atrocity not only if we didnt pay for everybody and their mother to come here for free to soak up tuition funds but also that by knowing law abiding citizens carried weapons to defend themselves that criminals wouldnt be so bold to commit crimes against them...

As usual, Im sure this plea of common sense will fall on deaf ears as I recently responded to a general email notifying students of the conceal carry ban...

On a lighter note... For a “Christian” university, I am very disappointed in Hamline. With the motif of the curriculum, the atheist professors, jewish and other non-Christian staff, I would charge the school with wanton misrepresentation.

Yes, I obviously feel that Hamline has been a serious let down, so far I am almost finished with half of my MAPA degree and havent even cracked a book. All the books that came in plastic wrap are still in plastic wrap despite the ridiculous amounts students are charged. I have yet to hear a student in my cohort that is happy with the curriculum or quality of professors. Why does this school charge so much for such a substandard education?

Furthermore, why are you diversity initiatives anti-Euro American (ie white folks)? All over the university grounds I see loads of leftist propaganda, why not warn a student before they enroll at Hamline? It took me complaining to a few different people before even the hamline website finally included white people in the random pictures on the main page. If I remember corrextly it was like 1 white in a picture out of like 12... Now it is obviously better but just goes to show how biased this university is and the painstaking efforts of diversity pandering it does at the expense of people that are actually planning on contributing back to the TAXPAYERS that are footing the bill for your iversity initiatives. In fact, 3 out of 3 students just in my class that are “minorities” are planning on returning to Africa and all 3 are getting a free education ON MY DOLLAR. I bet the staff here is wondering how a swastika ended up in a bathroom... More people than you can imagine are tired of this all. It’s just sad that they resort to petty vandalism rather than speak their mind like I am.

Please stop alienating the students that are working hard every day to pay for their tuition. Maybe you can instruct your staff on sensitivity training towards us “privilaged white folk”. If your staff is going to continually berate the evil white male for this privilage and his racist tendencies, at least have them explain where to find the privilages and point out the evil people that are ruining the world. Strange for how horribly racist Europeans and other white people are that everyone seems to want to exploit our generosity. Maybe someday the favor will be returned but I doubt it seeing what I have so far...

Thanks for your time...
Respectfully,
Troy Scheffler

[aaronbees]

38. The degree of hostility is alarming

If I were a school administrator, that would set off alarm bells. Good for Hamline on taking this course.

But how did this freak make it to a graduate-level program?

[eridani]

42. He sounds quite a bit like "that Asian guy" himself n/t

[sasquatch]

39. Overreaction, the school needs to apologize and move on

[mac56]

43. They didn't overreact, and have nothing to apologize for.

If anything, they should apologize to the rest of the university community for not weeding out this wackjob in the first place.

[LanternWaste]

52. Based on...?

Maybe you could expound on your position a but more and fill us in on why you believe that to be the case?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

55. If I were a faculty member at Hamline, I would not that guy on campus

with a gun.

Every once in a while, I used to have students who gave me the creeps. One of them was later expelled for sitting on the roof of his fraternity house with a BB gun, taking pot shots at passing students. He missed one girl's eye by a fraction of an inch.

If Hamline 1) didn't suspend the guy and 2) let him carry a gun and he later did something like that or worse, the school would be legally responsible.

[Brrrp]

56. As a liberal , I am shocked that so many ppl in this thread

support the Hamline administration's decision to suspend this student for expressing his opinions. However obnoxious his views may be, and however much people may disagree with them, he should not be punished for expressing them. His emails pose no clear or present danger to anyone.

[Autobot77]

41. The "liberal" media strikes again

The writer makes it seem like all he was suspended for was sending out an e-mail that supported gun rights. They don't mention that the e-mails are a hate filled diatribe against minorities and a rant about Hamline's quality of education.

The funny thing about this is all of the right-wingers who are saying Mr Scheffler's free speech rights are being violated are the same ones who were calling for the firing of the writer of the "Fuck Bush" column.

[DuaneBidoux]

53. He doesn't sound mentally healthy, but then again he sounds like a typical conservative.

And there is the problem as far as I am concerned. Probably 40% of the population think like he does and feel as he does--I don't think we can simply shut down the opinions of that many people (as much as it would help the civility of things generally). It also has the unfortunate effect of targeting just one side of the political spectrum.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

54. Something non-Minnesotans may not know

Thanks to our Republican governor and legislature, Minnesota has a concealed carry law. That is, you can carry a gun into any building that doesn't have a sign on its door telling you that it bans guns. The law is written weirdly: for a while religious institutions were not allowed to ban guns from their premises, something that especially upset the Quakers and other peace churches.

Hamline University is located in a quiet residential area of St. Paul. There's no reason why a student needs a gun in that environment, and if he thinks that the apple-cheeked Midwestern students and middle-class homeowners with neatly mowed lawns in the surrounding neighborhood are out to get him, then he's definitely a few credits short of a degree.

His e-mails only clinch it. He exhibits nearly every kind of bigotry there is: racial, religious, and sexual.

Hamline is a private university and has the right to ban firearms on its campus if it wishes, especially if the prospective carrier is so seething with hatred.

[benEzra]

57. As do 48 out of the 50 states...

Thanks to our Republican governor and legislature, Minnesota has a concealed carry law. That is, you can carry a gun into any building that doesn't have a sign on its door telling you that it bans guns. The law is written weirdly: for a while religious institutions were not allowed to ban guns from their premises, something that especially upset the Quakers and other peace churches.

Carry reform was initiated by Dems in a lot of states. Only 2 states don't allow licensed carry, Illinois and Wisconsin; 8 or so allow officials to base issuance on personal criteria (whether or not you donated to the sheriff's campaign seems to be a major determinant); the rest issue licenses based on statuatory criteria. Two states, Vermont and Alaska, do not require licenses in order to carry a gun for lawful self-defense.

I hold a carry license, as do 1-2% of the population in 48 of the 50 states, and am authorized to carry a weapon in approximately 32 of those states.

To obtain it, I had to pass Federal and state background checks, an FBI fingerprint check, a mental health records check, take a class on self-defense law using a state-approved curriculum, pass a written test on self-defense law administered by the sheriff's office, demonstrate competence with a handgun on a shooting range (live fire), take a significant amount of time off work, and pay lots of $$$ in fees (the obligatory financial test).

Your local criminal with a gun in his pocket doesn't feel he needs government permission in order to carry a gun; only people like my wife and I would go through the process. And statistically, those of us who seek and obtain CHL's have a lower rate of arrest for violent crime than even sworn police officers.

But to address the subject of this thread--this guy (whether rational or not) wasn't suspended for trying to bring a gun on campus; he was suspended for criticizing the university's policy prohibiting licensed carry on campus. That is not a minor difference, and while this guy is not a poster child for CCW by any means, it appears to me, at least superficially, that he is being suspended for his advocacy and not for actions or threats. That seems to be the basis of FIRE criticism of the suspension, if I read them correctly.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

58. I think he was suspended for being a hate-ridden nutcase, since

students criticize university policies constantly, in my experience.

Students have to get really obnoxious before colleges and universities will suspend or expel them.

This guy's e-mails are scary.

[tomg]

59. This really is a rock and a hard place.

I say this as someone who teaches at a private college. As a private institution, Hamline is, I believe, within its legal rights to prevent anyone from carrying concealed weapons on campus. If they deem someone a potential threat to other students or staff they have an obligation to take steps. They can kick students out; at the very least they can require a student to undergo counseling and make his or her continued presence on campus contingent upon undergoing counseling. They can also impose speech codes that, in effect, limit freedom of speech of students. Academic freedom and freedom of speech, though, are two different issues. We have a number of religious institutions - and I am referring to major institutions, not the Bob Jones University stuff - that have restricted academic freedom when teaching violates Church doctrine. There are often academic consequences for this, and some institutions are censured by the AAUP as a result. But freedom of speech and academic freedom are not the same. At a public university, freedom is speech is guaranteed and academic freedom is a first amendment right. At a private university, freedom of speech is not guaranteed and academic freedom is a lot dicier.

With that said, I think Hamline made a major mistake in this case - not a legal mistake but an academic one. As regards that bozos desire to carry a concealed weapons, while I don't know any of the details save what is in the article, unless the student has presented some sort of a danger in the past, suspension seems an over reaction to voicing what is a political position. At the same time, to require a mental health evaluation and continued presence in school predicated on the results seems to be the only responsible decision. As regards his racist, sexist bullshit - to bounce him for that really is, from my point of view, an infringement on his first amendment rights ( although legally in a private university they are not protected). Legally the school as a private institution can do it, but unless it was part of some kind of pattern that was used to harass or intimidate other students, unless he had a history of actually disrupting classrooms, I think Hamline is intellectually, academically and ethically wrong. Good intentions, maybe, but bad academics. Incidentally, comments like that are something I face every semester. In fact, I dealt with some homophobic bullshit yesterday.

As to FIRE - It has a wide range of people ( libertarians, some aclu people, Nat Hentoff, Christina Hoff Sommers), and I really can't get a fix on them. I don't know if FIRE is connected to David Horowitz ( a major asshole) or if he is latching on to them.

[KingFlorez]

60. This goes beyond free speech

This is a matter of safety, the university wants to keep it's students and faculty safe. After Virginia Tech, I can understand why they did this, they can't take any chances. His emails do seem like something that could lead to trouble.

[tkmorris]

61. I don't care if they suspend him

It bothers me a lot more that somehow this "student" was given a degree in the first place. How is that possible? Perhaps, just perhaps, he wouldn't have such asocial neanderthal viewpoints if he were actually capable of reading a book more complex than The Cat in the Hat and comprehending it.

I note that this college is associated with the United Methodist Church. I have to wonder if that doesn't have an impact on their apparent lack of any serious educational standards.