Clark closes in on Dean's lead as many consider switching votes

[NNN0LHI]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=676&ncid=716&e=20&u=/usatoday/20040108/ts_usatoday/clarkclosesinondeansleadasmanyconsiderswitchingvotes

Retired general Wesley Clark (news - web sites)'s military credentials and disciplined manner are attracting some Democrats who had been leaning toward Howard Dean (news - web sites) for their party's presidential nomination.

Clark's unexpected surge in this week's USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll, twinned with Dean's constant battering from rivals, has put them just 4 percentage points apart, within the poll's margin of error. Clark also moved into second place Wednesday in a New Hampshire poll. As a result, several candidates expanded their attacks Wednesday to include the former NATO (news - web sites) commander. snip

Dean, the former Vermont governor, still leads among Democrats polled nationally with 24%. But Clark is close behind at 20%. That's a change from three weeks earlier, when Dean had 31% to Clark's 10%.

Most polls in Iowa and New Hampshire, where the first contests will be held this month, still put Dean ahead of his rivals. Rep. Richard Gephardt (news, bio, voting record) of Missouri is trying to overtake Dean in the Iowa caucuses, which Clark chose to skip. In New Hampshire, Clark is vying with Sen. John Kerry (news - web sites) of Massachusetts for second place.

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[private_ryan]

1. sorry to gloat but

hahahahahahahahaha.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

2. I am not suprised. Democrats are worried if Bush gets four...

more years. Clark can challenge Bush on security issues and possibly overtake him on this. Dean cannot do so!

[private_ryan]

6. same here, plus

Clark doesn't have a record they can pick on. If they do they point out his military record and 4 stars.

[graelent]

16. You are utterly incorrect

Any Dem candidate could stand against Bush on security issues. Bush choose to attack a country that presented no immediate threat to the US over working for US security issues.

[Kahuna]

35. What about the "war on terrorism?"

Just asking?

[jamesinca]

42. Here it comes Gen. Clark

Dean has been putting up with this since taking over the front runner job, and I say that because it is work to have that designation it is a job. Now with Clark as the perceived up and coming individual they are going to go after him.

<SNIP>
"As a result, several candidates expanded their attacks Wednesday to include the former NATO (news - web sites) commander."

<SNIP>

When March 2nd has come and gone I am willing to bet that it will be Dean and Clark or Clark and Dean, however one prefers to phrase it, that are left with a legitimate chance at winning. I don't see Sharpton or Mosley-Braun coming out of it with any wins, or at least not enough to make them a contender even if they swept the remaining states. As much as I like the message of DK and Edwards I feel they will be fighting for the 5th place position with Liberman. I personally feel that there is something morally wrong with that. There never should be an instance that DK or Edwards should ever be put into the same low class as Liberman, they are much to good for that. I think there is something wrong with Mosley-Braun finishing with less than Liberman. I also think that Kerry and Gephardt will be fighting for the table scraps of Dean and Clark after, up to and including March 2nd Super Tuesday. Those two men are in this for third unless something drastic happens. It makes me ill to think that Clark and Dean will not team up to be President and Vice President eventually. I don't think there would be any argument from the DU that those two could be the crap out of Bush and Dick.

[ramapo]

3. Taking on a life of it's own?

This is getting interesting. I don't think the voters are ready for the race to be over. The endorsement hype (Gore especially) might be contributing to a voter backlash.

[formernaderite]

7. I find this incredulous

I know many folks like myself, who opted out voting for Gore during the general election. His endorsement of Dean meant nothing to me. However, I was thrilled to see Bradley once again. I would warn that there are many including myself that are left of center, former Nader voters, that would never vote for a Clark candidacy. You'll can talk till your're blue, but Clark is a republican to me, regardless of his stance on the war.

[lancdem]

12. That's your decision, of course

but Clark's position on the issues is often strongly liberal. Please don't tell me you think Clark is equivalent to Bush. :shrug:

[newyawker99]

33. Hi formernaderite!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[bspence]

4. I think this is a dupe, but

I also think that this is just the media's way of tightening the race. Clark is such a non-candidate. I haven't heard two words from him in forever. Kerry or Edwards or even Gephardt should be gaining, but not Clark, please.

[Speed8098]

19. You don't need to be condescending about it

if you don't like Clark, that's your business, but don't try to belittle people with your "please" comment.

Some of us here feel that he is the best choice.

[damnraddem]

25. I'm for Dean, think he'll win and beat Dubya.

But I wish the attacks on Clark would stop, as well as those on Dean. Clark could be our candidate; or he could be Dean's running mate (I don't take seriously what either of them say about that now). Let's hold it together, folks, and dump Dubya.

[Kahuna]

36. Clark was on Meet the Press Sunday, Hardball, Monday, ABC..

with Peter Jennings last night and CNN this morning. But you haven't heard from him? :eyes:

[expatriot]

5. I just hope if this race extends into late March...

...that both Dean and Clark have a very 'gentlemanly' contest
so as not to hurt the Democrats... 

[shance]

8. Strange the media claims polls are changing drastically in just 24 hours

This narrowing in the polls has gone from a strong margin for Dean to almost, as media has been churning out, a "dead heat" they claim in about a 24 hour period.

How can it be that polls change dramatically that fast?

Cmon.....**

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Atlant]

22. The memos from "corporate" went out. (NT)

[kstewart33]

9. Good news

Dean has made too many mistakes, saying things that are simply politically stupid. People are taking a second look at him, especially his supporters, and Clark is looking better all the time.

Clark is a very long shot to beat Bush. But if we lose, it won't be because of stupid mistakes and verbal gaffes.

If the Naderites won't vote for Clark, so be it. I'd rather lose them than have a candidate who will be a disaster.

No offense to the Deanies, but your guy has faltered badly, and it would be a mistake to nominate him. There are key Senate races at stake. If Dean is a disaster, our odds of surviving in the Senate are greatly harmed. At this point, this is my chief concern because I believe that Bush is unbeatable.

[graelent]

18. I have taken a long look at Clark

And passed. Sorry, but this guy is an awful campaigner. His stump speech is uninspired and he never answers a direct question. It is weird. And I am uneasy about voting for someone who has never held public office and had no agenda to speak of in any form until after he decided he should run for President.

[MODemocrat]

32. Please be more specific with regard to Dean's faltering

Bush is unbeatable my eye! To quote Dick Gephardt, his administration is a miserable failure. He has put the screws to so many and all this killing and maiming in Iraq is showing him for what he is: A Mad Man. That's just for starters. He's a liar, plain and simple, and I've yet to talk to one person in the last year that's in love with Bush. :puke: :smoke: :argh:

[JaneQPublic]

10. Clark closing in on Dean... AGAIN?

Let's look at the history of the USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll of Dem Candidate Preference:

9/19-21
Dean 13
Clark 22

12/11
Dean 31
Clark 10

1/2-5
Dean 24
Clark 20

Once the press and the other candidates begin aiming their buckshot at Clark's butt instead of Dean's, the good General's numbers will fall again, just as they did after his September/October peak.

http://pollingreport.com/wh04dem.htm

[KittyWampus]

23. The Media Has Either Ignored Clark Or Attacked Him

Judy Woodruff went over a month without uttering Clark's name when discussing the Democratic Candidates. And to a certain extent, the media still is ignoring Clark. The NYTimes didn't even give Clark his own column after announcing his Tax Proposal which is undeniably a radical change to status quo and very Progressive. Rather, they combined the info along with something about Kerry doing this or that.

All this whilst giving Dean unbelievable amounts of Name Recognition and coverage. Only recently have they highlighted Dean's gaffes and inconsistencies in his record/current rhetoric.

That Clark has made such huge strides with next to no coverage in the major media over the last 3 months is a testament to his campaign and supporters.

That Dean is leveling off and declining is due directly to his numerous gaffes and the fact people are only NOW looking at him closely and getting beyond name recognition.

Note: Those numbers you posted show Clark's numbers on entering when there was alot of buzz around his name... let's call that Name Recognition too... now he's been campaigning and people are hearing what he has to say and finding about who he is.

It seems people like Clark, his policies and his style.

[progressivebydesign]

28. But I have yet to get a handle on what Clark is for..

His campaign needs to work overtime to get that out there. I continue to support Dean because when I watch his speeches, I find myself tearing up and cheering because he is saying what I've been feeling for the past 3 miserable years. Clark needs to find a way to tap into some passion... It may be hard for him to overcome years and years of Republicanism and military training to get that kind of fire in his belly over social issues. Gephardt may be pretty unpopular here, but to hear him speak in person, he sounds like a preacher.. all fired up!

The media has ignored Clark. I don't see them attacking him at all. It's more of a case of neglect. Now that Bush and the corporate whore media re seeing his viability, brace for the attacks. They want to destroy ANY viable front runner we may have. They have to win.. they have to continue to contol things. It's the only option for them. I'm tired of the relentless infighting of the Democrats, while we all lose sight of what we all want. No More Bush!

[BearFlagDemocrat]

11. I could go either way

I've been a Dean supporter for over a year now, but he does keep saying things "off the cuff" that make me wonder if he has a coherent message. Make your statement and stick by it, or don't say it in the first place...don't make a speech and then apologize for it two days later. I took a serious look at Clark when he entered the race, but his "Mary, help!" fiasco and the fact that he didn't look coherent when he declared his candidacy made me dismiss him. I think Clark has some serious drawbacks, but Dean is also starting to look that way too...he's been in this race too long to keep making these gaffes.

Unfortunately, no one is looking strong enough to pull away at this point, which only means that more precious Dem $$$ will be spent fighting each other rather than Bush.

[lancdem]

13. I think Clark has improved dramatically after a rough start

We'll have to see what happens next.

[West Coast Democrat]

14. Clark is still my top choice

with Dean in second place.

[AndyTiedye]

21. They're Both Winging It

So they both make mistakes.

Both will get savaged in the Republican-owned media nonstop from
March until November.

Either could beat Bush* in a fair election with real voting
machines that count real votes.

It Is All About the Diebold Republican Electing Machinez!





ANYONE BUT BUSH!

[progressivebydesign]

27. Well said..

And I'll support our eventual nominee. But it'll be tough if it's Lieberman.. but I'd have to do it. Anyone but bush! Wasn't that the rallying cry of a kinder, gentler DU just a few innocent months ago?
;-)

[Sterling]

34. I agree this infighting is for retards.

Who were born to lose.

[progressivebydesign]

26. Wierd to see Paul Wellstone in your email..

.. while supporting Clark. He's the most republican of most of the candidates, besides Joe Lieberman, of course. I wonder what Paul Wellstone would have thought of the candidates running today. I just don't think you could find two more different people, Wellstone and Clark. I would have pegged you for perhaps a Kucinich person. High integrity, grassroots appeal, nice guy vibe. Just curious what exactly about Clark interests you?

I know that many (probably misguided) Democrats think that a Democratic candidate that is a military mofo is the only thing to beat Bush.. but I doubt you'd be naive that way. So.. what is it about Clark's positions that connect with you?

[depakid]

15. Clark supporters will be disappointed- relying on USA Today

Gannett is simply editorializing on Gallop's national poll that was debunked several days ago on DU and elsewhere. But go ahead and gloat- it's better than the democidal Dean bashing that people all too often try to pass off as news or analysis around here.

[RobinA]

20. This Clark Supporter

isn't gloating, I''ll believe Clark's ahead when I see it. I generally believe that major polls are to be believed - as long as you keep in mind that what they are showing. At this point in any election people change their minds a lot and don't take their day to day choices very seriously. It's more accurate when you ask Bush vs. a Democrat, because it reflects a broad ideology, than when you ask Clark vs Dean, which usually means "who do you like the best today?"

[progressivebydesign]

29. Maybe the other candidates can be attacked by the media for a while!

To see any media you'd think that Dean was the only one running! Perhaps they can spread around some of that good cheer toward someone besides Dean for a while.. maybe Bush????

[DennisReveni]

17. Polls wrong

This is the same poll used to refute the CNN poll that showed Dean five per cent behind Bush.
If it is so wrong for the Dean Bush match, what makes anyone think it is more correct for Dean Clark?

[progressivebydesign]

24. Good.. then let's see if the MF repubs attack him for once!

You know.. I don't understand why supposed Democrats are behind Clark. As recent as yesterday, when the parents of 5 kids in Iraq were slaughtered, people here were talking about the military complex, and everything that is wrong with the pentagon types running the country. Then I'm to believe that I should be wetting my pants over a career military Republican, who decided to change parties to run against Bush??? I have yet to see a Clark bumper sticker out there in my area. I have yet to meet one person that supports him where I live.. yet I'm to believe that he is so electable? I'm sure he's a groovy guy.. except for the fact that his recent boss is responsible for the hateful attack ads on Dean (are you SURE they come from the Bush camp?), and he has NO track record as a Democrat. No govermental management experience. And.. he just doesn't come off as a warm guy. Okay.. and it FREAKS me out when I see some of the DU members photos of him in full camo uniform. Suddenly we all cream over people who kill people for a living????????? What has happened to us???

His supporters, for the most part, here on DU have been so incredibly rude and vicious toward other candidates, and yet I'm to believe that Clark is a likable, warm and fuzzy guy?

I checked him out when he announced his candidacy. I read his website, I researched his positions. I paid attention to his supporters. How fucking naive and backward is it for democrats to assume that all you have to do is find a Military Democrat to run against Bush and we'll win. Ummm.. doesnt' Kerry have a military background? Clark's meetups are no where NEAR Dean's in terms of numbers.... Just because Clinton is supposedly supporting him... it means nothing to me. I always liked Gore better, anyway. I still wonder if Clark is one of those decoy candidates.
And.. I have yet to see ONE articulation of Clark's positions here on DU. I only see attacks against Dean and other candidates. Dean is popular because people KNOW what he stands for, he articulates it. He backs it up with experience. Clark's time may not be here yet.. he needs some domestic experience and seasoning. And.. he needs to rein in his attack supporters, so they don't continue to turn people off of him.

[texas is the reason]

37. you're absolutely right-but man are you about to get flamed!

"suddenly we all cream over people who kill people for a living?"- LOL! people act like we are running against rambo! we are running against an awol chickenhawk cokehead who cuts veterans benefits and fights all the wrong wars.. dennis kucinich can beat bush on defense- all we have to do is show a little spine for once and ask the tough questions, and spread unpopular truths. bush knew. we are no safer now. al qaida is still in full force. halliburton. enron. PNAC. we don't need a military guy to win- we just need a candidate with balls.

[LibDemAlways]

39. I live in suburban Ventura County

and the only bumper stickers I've seen in this area for any Dem are for Clark - lawn signs too. I think he appeals to moderate types who've had it with Chimpco but who aren't ready to support a "liberal" -- which is how the media is defining Dean.

I have a very progressive friend who's jumped on the Clark bandwagon simply because she thinks he's the only candidate who can beat *.

I'm reserving judgment for now. I'm still inclined to vote for Dennis in the primary on principle, but will enthusiastically support the nominee. The stakes are too high this time around.

[David__77]

30. I'm skeptical.

I'm not some hard-core Dean partisan--I only endorsed him within the last month. I'm really unsure that Clark can win a majority of delegates. I'm not sure that he can inspire people the way Dean can.

I'm afraid that too many Democrats are working within the confines of a game set up by Republicans and their enablers--it's not necessary. We can play offense, successfully. I see no reason that Dean in unelectable. His "gaffes" and so forth are of little consequence if dealt with (or NOT dealt with) appropriately. We can learn this from certain GOP figures.

[creativelcro]

31. Totally agree... His "gaffes" are made up by the media

they are of no consequence whatsoever.

[Zech Marquis]

38. about 10 minutes ago on the History Channel

a Clark campaign ad was aired :wow: Very interesting....

[copithorne]

40. I switched.

Nothing against the good Doctor, but I saw Wesley Clark as a man with rare gifts.

Flexibility of mind is a patriotic virtue.

[stickdog]

41. The nomination is now Clark's to lose. (nt)