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Brit officer who gave famous eve-of-battle speech quits

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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-04 06:36 PM
Original message
Brit officer who gave famous eve-of-battle speech quits
British officer who gave famous eve-of-battle speech to
quit army, newspaper says

By Associated Press, 1/10/2004 17:47

LONDON (AP) A British officer who
made headlines with a stirring
eve-of-battle speech to troops
preparing to fight in Iraq has resigned
from the army, a newspaper reported.

The Mail on Sunday said Col. Tim
Collins, 43, had handed in his
resignation last week and was
expected to leave the army this
summer after 22 years of service.

...

"Tim is no longer convinced that the army reflects the country with the fourth largest economy in
the world,'' she was quoted as saying. ''He fears it is becoming a cottage industry.

"He's worried it is being crippled by political correctness, petty bureaucracy and the refusal of
politicians who send British soldiers to war to give them enough money to do their job."


http://www.boston.com/dailynews/010/world/British_officer_who_gave_famou:.shtml

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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-04 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hmmm, wonder what impact this has on the British people.
I don't know what was meant by "cottage industry" and am not really clear on what he seeks.
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Oggy Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-04 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Not a lot of impact
Like none.

Cottage industry means pre-industrial revolution industry. It is like comparing a steelworks (normal) to a Blacksmith (Cottage industry). I think it must be a very British phrase.

I think he is suggesting our Army is a bit sh*t, under resourced, and nothing like yours.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-04 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Impact on British people?
NONE. Good riddance to Collins and his ilk.
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-04 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. So he is NOT resigning because of lies...


He is resigning because the British military is an appendage of the US (he would like to be a superpower again?), of 'political correctness' (probably doesn't like women in the military or the ban on hazing rituals), the enormous enlisted bureacracy (one less now he has resigned) and if the civillians send him to invade a country for oil, they should give him and his boys more bucks...

Nothing in the story about how politicians selling out the honor of the military with lies or anything...or 'fighting' men kicking to death civillian captives...

Pity...the old Tory

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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-04 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. What 'Political Correctness' means to military officers
Surprisingly, it has less to do with women in combat than with the way the military life has changed.

David Hackworth is positively livid about military PC. No, he doesn't want women in combat, but he still gives them their due. His take is that "Political Correctness" is a combination of indiscipline, lack of esprit de corps, loss of the "warrior spirit" and overall understanding of the philosophy of warfare and combat. Read his article "The March of the Porcelain Soldiers" and you'll see what Hack is talking about it.

By the way, I don't agree with everything he says about the subject, but there's a lot of wisdom in what he does say. Agree or not, it's always a good idea to listen to people who've done the kind of work you wouldn't be caught dead doing -- especially when they're doing it so you won't be caught dead, period.

There's an old military epigram that's become fairly well-known among wise-ass civilians like me: "The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in combat" (plus about 100 variations.) In the effort to make Basic Training less abusive, it seems to have become much less effective, with occasionally horrific battlefield results. In addition, it is highly frustrating for combat officers, such as Colonel Collins (or Col. Hackworth), to have to deal with political officers, most of whom have no experience "in the field" but who are dispatched to implement politically pleasing changes in the military without so much as taking the time to talk to the actual fighters themselves.

And, of course, when your Commander-In-Chief is a lair, a cheat, a pampered playboy, a military deserter, and a born-again phony, it must make wartime a special kind of hell.

--bkl
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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Hack is always interesting
This piece is probably very accurate. I think the point is that the individual soldier doesn't matter very much to the government. It is the organization that does the job.

The fact is that with the exception of some combat specialties, the soft people excel in the modern Army. The Army is all about politics, a screwed up kind of Army politics. Also, individualism (Army of One) and back stabbing seem to have become an Army trait. I served on active duty in both the Navy and the Army. The Navy was a teamwork organization, it was drilled into you, "no cowboys." You worked hard together and went on liberty together. In the Army it was every man and woman for themselves. Unless they were married, then someone got left behind for someones spouse. There were so many cliches and patronage games going on you couldn't keep track of them. Women would get raped in the barracks but women would definitely get preferential treatment in daily duty and career assignments. If they couldn't do a situp, it was covered up.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-04 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. Good riddance
.
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Devils Advocate NZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-11-04 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
7. This is the same guy who was accused of war crimes...
and all but admitted it.

One accusation that I recall is that he put a gun to an Iraqi civillians head and threatened to kill him if he didn't tell where the guns were. When that failed to illicit the desired answer he started shooting into the floor at the man's feet "to scare him" into confessing.

This guy should be at the Hague, so it's a damn good job he's gone.
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