Racehorse winning secret revealed

[NashVegas]

Source: BBC

The offspring of expensive stallions owe their success more to how they are reared, trained and ridden than good genes, a study has found.

Only 10% of a horse's lifetime winnings can be attributed to their bloodline, research in Biology Letters shows.

...

The offspring of expensive stallions did tend to win more over their lifetime, he said, but genes played only a small role.

By far the biggest factor was the horse's environment - the way they were trained, the choice of races entered and which jockeys were employed, Dr Wilson added.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7150251.stm

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This study has implications that carry over to the nature v nurture argument for human development, no?

[Tyler Durden]

1. I don't know.....

Sometimes you can't extrapolate data to lower and less intelligent life forms....

NYUK, NYUK, NYUK!

[Xipe Totec]

2. Interesting but overstated

Race horses come from a preselected subset of the gene pool already.

It should be no surprise, therefore that a specific bloodline would be a less significant factor.

If genes did not mater you could take a donkey and, with proper training, get it to win the Triple Crown.

[Donnachaidh]

3. genes are a factor, but they shouldn't be the only factor

Case in point -- brother A wins every race available. The problem is, brother A was gelded because he was acting too fractious to settle down to race. Sooo, owners go back and breed the same mare to the same stallion, expecting the same winning combination.

They get brother B, who physically is an exact duplicate of brother A. But this little brother who hasn't been gelded isn't fractious. And he isn't interested in the least in racing. He likes to exercise, but put him in a lineup with everyone else, and he "holds the gate for everyone else to leave."

Brother B's new nickname is Ferdinand, because he'd much rather be in a field smelling flowers. He's a beautiful well-mannered, very expensive loss. And because he has no race record, he cannot even be put out to stud. :shrug:

[Xipe Totec]

5. Example is a bit far fetched,

B is an exact duplicate of A? How do we know this? We don't; the chances of getting an exact twin from a second mating are vanishingly small.

However the chances of producing a winner from the second mating are better than if you mated a random pair of horses from non-racing breeds; say ponies or percherons.

Race horses are already a preselected subset of the gene-pool. Therefore the genetic variation among individual race horses is far less than that among random members of the horse species as a whole.

I said the conclusion was overstated. I did not say genes are the only factor.

[Donnachaidh]

12. example is dead on -- I know

because I was the caretaker and trainer of little Brother.

Breeding solely on genetics brings up far more *stinkers* than the industry likes to talk about.

[Xipe Totec]

16. So, you can attest that it was an exact genetic copy?

because that's the question here; whether a second mating can produce an identical twin.

[Donnachaidh]

17. oh please...

:eyes:

Since WHEN does the breeding industry produce EXACT genetic twins? :eyes:

[Xipe Totec]

22. That's my point

read what you wrote.

[AngryAmish]

20. Even identical twins are not truly identical

For example one is good and one is evil...

All kidding aside, environmental factors influence how genes are expressed. An example is two twins may have the same basic musculature. One twin who lifts a lot of weights (changing his environment) creates bigger muscles. His environment influences the expression of genes for muscle size.

It is not 100% genes and not 100% environment. Determining the interaction and manipulating the outcome is where the most important work in science will be done in the next 25 years.

[Xipe Totec]

23. No argument there; we're saying the same thing

my original statement was that the conclusions were overstated.

[AngryAmish]

26. If we are in agreement, then you must be a very smart person!

And a good dresser. And so, so graceful...

[Kokonoe]

31. I am an identical twin, and I am all that you say.

mainly because of DU.

[Xipe Totec]

32. How could I possibly disagree with that?

:rofl:

[truedelphi]

28. But there may be other factors too

In the animal world of stables, there is a lack of concern of effects of pesticides to clear a barn of horse flies.
Maybe the "stinker" got poisoned at an early age and his brain's hard wiring was affected.

It is happening to our kids - so it could be happening to the horses that race for our entertainment as well.

[gratuitous]

6. One might also think . . .

That with all the decades of tracing bloodlines and selective breeding and improvements in training, and so on and so forth, that horses, like humans, would constantly be improving their race times, but I don't think that is the case. Isn't the record for fastest run at Belmont still held by Secretariat, more than 30 years ago? While Bob Beamon's freakish long jump at the 1968 Olympics stood as the world record for many years, it was finally eclipsed. Yet for all their expertise, horse breeders aren't constantly lowering record times.

[Donnachaidh]

13. I worked in the Standardbred industry

And while there was a time that some freakish speed showed up, many breeders kept narrowing the gene pool - only breeding to a small line of families. It was probably an economic choice - but it was very shortsighted. Several major lines fell to the wayside, because breeders wanted the easy cash.

Add to that the use of illegal substances at the track. That was the cause of many horses being raced too early and breaking down. Years ago trainers knew that some horses didn't hit their real speed until they were mature. Now the emphasis is on baby races, and three year old stakes. If they didn't have a good record by the end of their third year, they were tossed into claiming races. If they hadn't broken down. :shrug:

[Rockerdem]

18. Uhhhh ... Ferdinand won the '86 Kentucky Derby &

the '87 Breeders' Cup.

[doodadem]

19. Precisely!

Then he was sold to a Japanese conglomerate, and when it was found he could not pass on winning genetics, he was sold for meat in that country.

If you worked in the Standardbred industry (harness racing), how is it that you were working with Ferdinand, in the Thoroughbred racing industry?

[Rockerdem]

21. In fairness to Donna

I was just making a joke about the nickname for her horse (based on the flower-sniffing bull), not challenging her points.

[Kali]

10. Yep.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

4. nature v. nurture? How does one explain George Bush? Huh? huh! Huh?

answer us that conundrum.

[pokercat999]

7. Simple, poor breeding combined with even worst upbringing.

[Thor_MN]

8. Didn't Nostradamus predict a third antichrist named Mabus?

Maybe he was talking about MA BUSh?

[Kali]

9. BWAHAHAHAHA

[NashVegas]

11. In What Ways Has George Bush Been Successful

Based on his own action / merit?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

24. much more than I like to admit.

he came into office promising to shake up government to to kill it off. I'd say he's gone a long way towards that goal.

[Javaman]

14. oh the ultra wealthy won't like this, they won't like this at all...nt

[Kingofalldems]

15. So if you breed to claiming horses and raise the offspring

properly, you come up with a winner? Will the offspring be a claimer or a stakes horse?

[AnneD]

25. I can't help but think of Dan Fogelberg's ...

Run for the Roses. Such an offbeat song to be a hit but to a horse nut, it was a pretty good song.

[truedelphi]

29. It was a great song. And many Fogelberg fans may not even know of this

Early record. One that had Joe Walsh on it.

Plus I rarely notice anyone saying that that album must have influenced the Eagles - a lot of their licks sound familiar to a Fogelberg pattern.

[daleo]

27. Don't forget race fixing

That could throw off the analysis too.

[Mark E. Smith]

30. Horse-ism finally gets what it deserves

A flying 2 hooves to the teeth!