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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 08:47 AM
Original message
Iowa race tighter, nastier
DES MOINES, Iowa — The Democratic presidential campaign here took a sharp negative turn Wednesday amid polls showing Howard Dean's lead shrinking and the Iowa caucus becoming a three-man race.

<snip>
But in Iowa, where he (Dean) had a seven-point lead days ago, a new Reuters/MSNBC/Zogby poll of likely caucus-goers shows Dean holding only a three-point lead, at 24 percent.

In that poll of 501 caucus-goers, taken Sunday through Tuesday, Gephardt held steady at 21 percent, but Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts climbed four points to catch Gephardt at 21 percent, bolstering his claims of momentum.

With a margin of error of 4.5 percentage points, "this is officially a three-way race," said pollster John Zogby.

more...
http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/7712640.htm
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cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. any poll that has MSNBC in it's name --- is at question...all polls are
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liberalmike27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. sub
These polls have been all over the place. I know Dean supporters have the largest loyalty of anyone, so that bodes well. But I agree, I tend to not trust the polls, as they are a manipulative device, and can cause certain people to choose, or not choose a candidate.

But I can't possibly be surprised. Dean has received constant negative coverage, with very little mention of all of the good he's done. Do you think he would have been reelected five times in Vermont if he didn't have good qualities? I know in Alabama, if a governor gets through one term unscathed, he's doing good. But all negative all the time, will kill a candidate.

This whole races has been kind of an Internet against the media thing. The Internet is still David to the radio/television, right-wing Goliath. Many are wising up to the fact that the media likes to mold the brains of the weak thinkers, like so much clay. They've been doing a number on Dean supporters, trying to squeeze out the will of Dean. But people are waking up to the fact that the news media, every station, to some extent only represents the interests of the very wealthy. They are beholding to their advertisers, as well as all of the companies in the leviathan corporate structures they are part of, so we can't really count on them to pick the candidate, can we.

Why are they so critical of Dean? Truth is, Dean has gotten his support from poor to middle-class people, both on the Internet, and outside of the Internet. They are severely afraid that Dean will break up the media, for one, and that he might actually do things that will help people, and American workers. We all know, that if you help people, cut pollution, assure they are paid a good wage, make sure folks have insurance so hospitals don't have to absorb indigent care, and a host of other issues, it hurts corporations. So, when Dean caught fire, corporations started to worry, and set about with their punditry extinguishing the corporate danger. People willingly are herded to a candidate, like Clark (Republican), or Lieberman, perhaps two of the most ingrained Insiders like Kerry or Gephardt, both nearing three decades in Congress. Corporations safe, the people have to wait another four years, perhaps longer, American workers and America in general suffers more corporate rule, the Democratic Party continues to suffer from the loss of soul involved with their support of corporate power.

Vote for Dean. No matter what comes out of the corporate mouthpieces, he is perhaps our last great chance to restore America to the fine example in the world, it once was.
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Trying to create expectations
by which to judge results rather than winning. Usually positioning and "performing to expectations" make for greater manipulation than just saying how the tiny state's caucus split umpteen ways. It is somewhat legitimate, but grossly exaggerated- as usual. Compared to past campaigns and the fact that it is not a simple "frontrunner" status and that a real battle of organizations is going on, Dean is doing very well on all fronts. The endorsements he is getting shows many in the party leadership actually want him to really roll over the rest and get on with it.

The heat is good. It shows Dean has real depth to me. He is no McCain or Perot, befuddled and irate by realities political or otherwise. The fact I have another preference does not mean I could actually prove my guy would win or govern better. The three top for me are very different in their own way but I could back each 100%, Dean, Clark or Edwards. OK, Kerry too if he could get that albatross off his neck.

Oh yeah, and when are we going to hammer on the comparison between Bush's record as governor and Dean? Nothing will stop all those fault finding tours into his governorship quite like a loud quid pro quo.

No one has patience to just let the voters do their thing.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I don't trust the polls either
I look at them and appreciate that they're another graphic to give us something to talk about. They're more of a media tool. Like that Calif. poll floating around--they only polled 400 people.
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candy331 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. The real story will come on the 19th
I am circumspect to all of these polls too, ever day polling can't really show anything and if it does there are some very fickle people out there who change their minds on a daily basis and I don't believe that for a moment.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Thank you, liberalmike...
I've been trying to ignore the polls since that bogus "Clark gains on Dean" poll they tried to foist on us on the cover of USA Today's McPaper. They polled less that 500 people! And this merited front page/full column press coverage. Oh yeah, they also ran a photo of a loveydovey gay couple from Vermont, just so we don't miss the point that Dean hates heterosexuals.. Ack!
I'm trying to stick to C-Span and C-Span 2. Just the speeches, folks. In the meantime, I'm sinking lawn signs, writing letters and calling Michigan dems to explain our caucus rules and regs.
Noses to the grindstone, people! All the media coverage in the world is not going to replace the power that I know all Dean supporters have. That power is the high regard that people who know us have of our political instincts. We have only to keep speaking out at the grass roots level, and we will win by numbers, not dollars!
POWER TO THE PEOPLE!
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9119495 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Thanks Mike. I've enjoyed reading your posts
I've been saying the same thing. I appreciate how you don't sling mud to make a point most democrats used to understand about the media.
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dolstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. WRONG -- it's a FOUR man race -- Edwards is coming on strong
NT
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F-5 Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. Too bad Kucinich isn't up there. :(
Oh well. I don't believe polls anyways.
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cspiguy Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-15-04 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
10. Title makes this sound like a new NR filick on the sattelite naughties
n/t
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