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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:12 AM
Original message
Putin to revive Soviet muscle-flexing parade
Source: The Guardian

It was one of the highlights of the Soviet calendar - a chance for the communist superpower to show off its military might and for ordinary citizens to check that their gerontocratic leaders were still alive, perched on top of Lenin's tomb.

But 17 years after the last hammer and sickle tanks trundled through Red Square, the Kremlin is to revive on May 9 the Soviet-era practice of parading its big weaponry, the Russian defence ministry confirmed yesterday. As well as 6,000 marching soldiers, it will show off its latest tanks and rockets - such as the new intercontinental ballistic missile, Topol-M.

"Under the plan adopted by the president, land and air military equipment will be involved in the parade on Red Square," General Yuri Solovyov said. The parade will include the new S-300 missile defence system that Russia has just sold to Iran.

The decision to revive this symbol of the cold war is likely to provoke criticism from opposition parties, which accuse Vladimir Putin of turning Russia into a pastiche of the Soviet Union. The parade might also raise a few quizzical eyebrows inside the British embassy in Moscow. Last week, Russia closed the British Council's two regional offices in St Petersburg and Yekaterinburg using what UK officials described as "classic KGB tactics".

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/article/0,,2244705,00.html
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. Jesus Fucking Christ. Between Bush and Putin, the world takes great leaps backwards
Can we get some UFOs to kidnap these two atavistic motherfuckers?
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
47. maybe that is why they had those sightings in Texas
they are after the leader, we should give them directions to DC.
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TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
2. Great. In another few years, they'll be bankrupt again.
Looks like he doesn't learn from history any more than Bush does.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Unless oil goes back down to $17, Russia will have plenty of money.
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TheLastMohican Donating Member (753 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 03:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
21. You should study the subject better
Only 19% of Russia's income comes from oil and gas.
Russia is quickly developing as a high-tech place. Ever heard of fusion power and reactor? Russia is building the first one together with France.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #21
31. Russia was a high tech place in the USSR times.
The oil money helps a lot.
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PFunk Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Nope. Russia has learned it's lesson.
Plus with their natual reserves russia's more than ready to match us move-for-move in the next 'cold war' and the next phase of the 'great game'.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:56 AM
Response to Reply #6
17. Booshco is playing russian rulet with our lives, reputation and
honor only he is not pointing the gun on himself but at us.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
3. ROCK!!! Woohooo!
:headbang:
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BearSquirrel2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
5. It's a waste of time ...

It's a big waste of time. Big deal.

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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
7. coincidence ????
I can see it now, the rest of the election process the footage of Russian hardware rolling through Red Square. Repugs saying only they can save us from the red dread. I guess Bin Laden must be renegotiating his contract for the fall T.V. line-up.:eyes:
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dantyrant Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 05:15 AM
Response to Reply #7
24. Nah... Writers are on strike, don't you know?
OBL's not going to use scabs.
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DiamondJay Donating Member (484 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
8. thanks dubya
had it not been for fucking bush, America would still have a powerful image in the world and Russia would not have turned out like this
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. with boooshco encircling Russia with nuclear weapons it is no wonder
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 02:39 AM by ooglymoogly
they are building up their military again and showing it off to let * know that they will not take it lying down. Considering the insanity of * they would be stupid not to, only this time around they have the resources to do it and do it formidably. Look what they did with practically no resources. Yes they have come full circle and really do know the place for the first time, unlike idiot Hitler knock off.
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. ooglymoogly
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 02:43 AM by Diclotican
ooglymoogly

Russia learned the hard way, that it can be wise to have a sword in the back, when it come to NAZI-Germany, who in 1941 invaded, and murdered more than 20 million people alone in Russia.. And I am afraid that US are no expecting from that rule.. Not after 9 sept, when US are so much less willing to let diplomats do the job, but where army forces are the nr one to go to action...

Under the cold war, they was playing the "great game" with USA, who in many cases was superior to the soviet industry, and now we have the opposite, USA are spending far more than they earn, and even Russia have today a better reputation than the united states..

And as you pointed so cleverly out, if you was in your way to be encircling your country, because some mad leader in US wanted to treat you bad, then you show off little wit your new army.. Russia have used a lot of money the last couple of year, to rebuild what was lost after 1991. Even with a moderate rebuild of russian armory, it Will take a long time to come up to the old soviet military forces.. And I doubt that Putin want to do that anyway.. Much of soviet Amery was old, wherry old, and was not capable of going active anyway.. Better to have a smaller army, but who are better prepared to go into action - if nessesary...

And the old Soviet system wasted a lot of resources at corruption and thing that never would work...

The Red army, as they are been named today to, are not was it was 17 years ago. But the Red Army can, be a military force to respect, if they want it to be.. I would never try to attack russia, because they have a lot of space, and the will to fight even that is against hopeless cases... That was the way Russia was on the winning side of WW2 even that the european part of Russia was destroyed and it would take russia decades just to go to pre-war level...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #8
27. You are kidding , right?
Russia has always been an imperialistic, militaristic country. It is in their DNA - Putin is simply a modern Czar. Bush has nothing to do with this - there are many in Russia who refuse to accept the fall of the Soviet Union.
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. hack89
hack89

Many have experienced that you point out, a imperialistic militaristic country. But I really doubt it is in their DNA.. What the hell should man then thing about US, who have in their own country, killed more native american than everyone else have managed to do in europe?.. I am not saying that the Russian are not bad in their own country, but they have not had as a official doctrine, as US had in the 1860s and 1870s that the native population should be killed, any means necessary so the land could be given over to the big farmers...

The history of Russia is both bloody, and harsh, when you are more than 500 year, you had your fair share of murder,plundering and horror.. When US are growing up, and mark the 300 year mark, or maybe 400 year mark, they "might" have something to say about what was going wrong, and what is going right. Right now US are a young country, just 232 year old, and have a lot to learn how the real world is when it come ot it...

The ground because many in Russia still resent that the USSR was falling, was because 1 Russia was a much more smaller country than USSR was.

2 Political and economical USSR was a much bigger block, the fact that the eastern part of Europe divorced the Union with USSR was not exactly the funniest thing to do.. Russia is a proud nation, and many of the soldiers who was coming back from Germany and other places was coming home to nothing.. The barracks and the equipment was far from good, rather bad.. And it was wherry demoralized a army who was coming back to Russia after 1991...

3 The year following the end of the Soviet Union in 1991 was chaotic, everyone could lost everything they had worked for in a lifetime.. The whole healtcaresystem who was function in the old system just was falling apart, Old illness,who under Soviet was under control, have exploded to a level that they are treating the healtcare system in many western country.. Because for the most part, we are not used to this type of illness.. Tuberculous, a illness who for the most part have been "killed" as a illness in Western Europe for a long time are on the rise in many east european country, specially in Russia are this illness on the rise. And this is a Ilse that can be stooped, with decent food, and decent housing. It is a "poor mans illness" for the most part, and for the most part the russian population was thrown out to a world they never believed to be part of. Not the modern capitalistic system that the West have enjoyed for a long time, but the rubber-baron capitalistic system,where you have to pay "Ransom" to do what you in fact was doing every day. The russian Mafia was big in this days.. They still are..
And for a public who had been learned to have "cheap" housing, found them self in a world, where you was treated little less than serfs in the new world.. Not surprising they decided that the old "system" where you had cloth on your back, food on the table, and a decent work was better than this... And after 17 year you might not think about the KGB anymore, but how to put food on the table for your kids...? If US was happened to something like that I really doubt that they doesn't want something like this to happened to them.. The "strong man" was in great believing in many american in the 1930s.. And the nazi party had a lot of sympathizers in the US.. They even tried to overthrown President Roosevelt in 1933, but failed...

The 10 year following 1991 was horrible for the russian public, it was a time where thief's could be billionaires, over night, but when hardworking decent people was tumbled on, and treated worse than many would treat their dog.. If you are going little out of the City's you would find a country who even today are revealing from the "shock-therapy" in the 1990s..

Mr Putin is "maybe a new Czar" But he is still a genuine popular figure in russian political life.. Mr Putin have approval rating in the 70s, Mr Bush on the other hand, are in the 20s, maybe sometimes in the 30s... Mr Putin are seeing as a pretty "clean" President, even that he not every time doing the right thing....

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language

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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. How much of the Imperialist Russia and the Soviet Union
was acquired by war?

Here's a hint: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Muscovy-Russia_1300-1796.jpg

Never said Putin wasn't a popular figure - part of his popularity is his promise to regain the power, respect and prestige lost with the fall of the Soviet Union.

Your English is fine. :)
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. Hack89
Hack89

The Imperial Russia was acquired many times over, by war... From the 12 century, when the rules of Moscow was going to war against their nabour, to the Imperial Russia by the 1800s.. Many european soldiers was in fact involved in this project and even some Norwegian was doing a rather interesting carrier in Russian in the 1600 and 1700s.. A man named Cornelius Cruys, was in fact the builder of Imperial Navel Power in the Baltic sea.. The real name was Nils Olsen, and he was from Stavanger in Norway.. He was working from the age of 14 on the ships, a Dutch ship, and in the year following he was in many country's duty, and ended up in Imperial Russia in 1696, when Peter the great of Russia wanted to modernized the russian world..

The story is to long to tell it here, but our friend Cornelius Cruys, was rewarded many times over, and ended as vice-admiral and in charge of the imperial navy in the baltic sea.. And he died some year after his emperor, and curious enough also his friend Peter the great.. But if you try to google the name, you would find a lot, both in Norwegian, and in engelish... Why I know about him, made a paper in school once, and it was a rather big project... 75 pages, after I had cuted down a lot..

Putin are a popular man, in many cases, and his promise to rebuild the power, respect and prestige after the fall of USSR are off course one of the more important reason he is still a popular man..

I would bet that Mr Bush really wanted to have some of the same respect, that mr Putin have today.. He have screwed a lot of US prestige in the world... And I would not be in the next presidents shoe, because he/she would have a lot of hard work to rebuild what mr Bush have ruined...

Thank you, I try my best, even that I know it is not perfect;)

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. What are the Natural borders of Russia?
Great Britain's natural Borders are the seas that surround the Island. India's natural borders are the seas that Surround the Sub-Continent and the Himalayas (This is way Pakistan and India dislikes each other so much, they both are in the same "Country").

France's Natural Borders are the Pyrenees to the South, the Atlantic to the West, the English Channel to the North and the Alps in the SOuth West. Germany's natural borders in the Alps to its south, the Carpathian Mountains to its east and th e narrow neck of Denmark to its north. Germany and France natural borders overlap in the Rhine Vally. Thus both countries end up fighting each other over where the borders should be. Charlemagne's son Leo the Pius, may have had the best solution for when he died, he dived his kingdom into three parts, France, Germany and the "Middle Kingdom" which consisted of present day Netherlands, Belgium, Alsace Lorraine, Switzerland and Italy. By the Time of of the founding of the Holy Roman Empire in 900 AD, the Middle kingdom and Germany had become one nation, and the story of France and Germany has been the slow movement of France to take over parts of the Middle Kingdom AND for parts of the Middle Kingdom to become Independent (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Switzerland). The Reason for this is their in NO natural BOrder between France and Germany (Rivers do NOT make good borders, people travel on them by boat, or along them by wagon or automobiles). Mountains make good Borders, Rivers make lousy borders.

Egypt is borders by the Desert and the First Cataract on the Nile. Iraq is the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. Brazil is the Amazon, while Argentina is the River Platte and the huge flat countryside to that River's South. The US Natural Borders include Canada (WHich for political reason remains Independent legally while slowly become more and more part of the American Economy). The US Southern BOrder is really NOT the Rio Grand, but the areas where water flows into the Rio Grand (And Mexico's Northern Natural Border includes the area that flows into the Rio Grand). Given the power difference between Mexico and the US, the Rio Grand has NOT been a factor any any conflict since 1848, but like the Rhine between France the Germany, a potential point of Conflict do the the natural overflow of both countries into that area.

The brings me to Russia. What is its Natural Western Border? Russia is on the Eurasian Plane. a flat piece of ground that except for the Ural Mountains, goes from the Pacific to the Baltic (And the Ural Mountains are NOT a real barrier like most mountains, AND their stop 2/3 of the way into the Steppes, thus NOT a serious impediment to travel). The Natural Western Border is The Silesia Mountains of what is now Western Poland. Thus the "Natural Western" border for Russia includes Poland, the Baltic States, and those parts of Eastern Europe that does not flow into the Danube.

Russian Southern Border? The Caucasus Mountains and the Black Sea, but the Black Sea is like a River, more to connect people than to separate people, but for out purposes lets call the Black Sea Russia's Southern Border. The Mountains of Iran is another barrier, but that leaves most of the Former Soviet States of Asia clearly within the natural border of Russia (Afghanistan in the exception, for it is in the Mountains that is a true barrier to Russia. When it comes to Mongolia and the Border with China, you have a overlap like the Rhine again, The Great Wall represents the Southern Most claim Russia has to a Natural Border with China. As to the Natural Northern Border, the only natural border would be the lime where people can no longer farm (and that would mean most of the areas of Siberia where people live is is land both Russia and China has a "natural" claim on (Notice I said NATURAL claim not a LEGAL claim).

Thus you have huge populations within natural borders of Russia that do NOT what to be part of Russia, but at the same time has to deal with the fact they are in the same "Natural Country" as Russia. This leads to conflict, just like the Rhine has been the source of Conflict between France and Germany since at least the days of Julies Caesar. To deal with these Conflict Russia needs an army, which by its natural must be able to invade these potential enemies. Thus the tendency to imperialism, it just comes from the Geography.

On top of this many countries that border the Natural Borders have invaded Russia. The Germans were big into this from the time of the Viking till the Battle of Tannenbaum (Where the Poles put a halt to German aggression into the areas discussed above till Poland itself was divided up in the late 1700s). Germany has also invaded during the Napoleonic wars (As ally of Napoleon), and during WWI and WWII. Sweden also invaded Russia, both as a base for the Viking, but again in the 1700s under Christian X (and as Allies of Napoleon in the early 1800s). Poland is within the natural borders of Russia, but it has also invaded Russia, but never as part of a permanent conquest, more a dispute as to were the Russian-Polish border should be. Such a Border is always an Arbitrary line in the sand, and thus grounds for constant conflict.

The Byzantine Empire fielded armies in what is now Russia in the Dark Ages, to expand its influence, when the Turks took over Constantinople from the Greek Byzantines, the Turks launched several expeditions to grab territories in what in now the Ukraine. Tamerlane in the 1400s used Iran and the Former Soviet States of Central Asia as his base to attack the Golden Horde that then ruled what we would call Russia. The Golden Horde itself was descendent's from the Mongols of the 1200s, who after conquering Northern China attacked Russia (With the Aid of Chinese Troops). India is NOT exempt, for Britain used it as its base to attack Russia's interest in Central Asia during the 1800s.

My point is Russia has reasons to fear its "Natural" neighbors. Germany, Sweden, Greece, Turkey, Iran, China has all attacked Russia at one time or another. On top of that you have "internal" disputes with other people within the "natural border" of Russia, the Poles, the Ukrainians, the Belarus Russians, the Latvian, Lithuanians and Estonians of the Baltic, the various Central Asiatic people along with the Mongols. These people have had to deal with each other AND Russia in a way to settle disputes as to where the borders of the people living within the natural borders of Russia should claim as their own. The Visula is Clearly Polish, but how far east does being a pole exists? The Don is a Ukrainian River, but where does the Ukraine end and Poland begin? Where does Russian begin? Given no natural borders any border is arbitrary and capricious and subject to change.

Thus Russia has reason for an "Imperious" policy, it has been victim of other countries "Imperialism" and has no natural borders NOT populated by people who are NOT Russians. Thus Geography explains Russian Imperialism better than anything else including their DNA.
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #36
41. happyslug
happyslug

Right on target. It is maybe not surprising that Russia have a little "paranoid" thinking about their nabour, when they have been attached repeatedly by their nabour?.. I would have been that if our country had been attacked repeatably since good know when, to the modern time of ourself..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language.
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DiamondJay Donating Member (484 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #27
38. well..
if there was a strong America in the last 8 years they woulda been scared to go as far as they have, but we have been weak, which allowed putin the world clout to do as he pleased. If we had had President Gore, we woulda still been strong in the eyes of the world and scared Putin. Ever notice that during Clinton, Yeltsin didn't try this bullshit on us?
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. OK - it is all Bush's fault. Got it. nt
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. hack89
hack89

Mr Bush have not doing it better when He acted as he are doing... and have doing for 8 year.. Mr Bush, and the administration have doing some dumb plans, and now it is hell to pay for it... And that is bad news for US... It Will take a lot of time to rebuild it... And I do hope it can be doing..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #38
44. DiamondJay
DiamondJay

I cant read the past and future, but I doubt that US would be in the shape it is today, if an another president have been in the White House today.. Under Clinton US was respected, even that the world laf allot when the "news" about mr Clinton's rather fancifully habit with the cigar thing was known... But US was STILL a respected nation.. And you have not offended half your allied friends in Europe...

When US is busy in Iraq, the rest of the world are taking advance for it.. Off course they do.. China, Russia, even Iran are in a stronger case today, then they was 8 year ago.. Even south america, who was solid a "backyard" of US are now climbing out, and do what they want to do them self.. And it is NOTHING UNITED STATES of America can do!.. Not today... not tomorrow..

The great one have failed down long since 2000. We have to hope, and pray that US are not falling to much longer, and that a decent, honest president can rebuild some of the damage that mr Bush have doing to your country... I don't know how the next president Will be, but I hope it Will be someone else than the neo-cons... The neo-cons are comparable to the Nazis in germany... They to want "world-power" and are treating the rest of the world as a playground for them to play as they please.. If they are not carefully, they can be in for some ugly surprise sooner or later.. Because the rest of the world, would not be played with in the long run...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language
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TheLastMohican Donating Member (753 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #38
46. Are you comparing Putin to forever-drunk Yeltsin?
Edited on Wed Jan-23-08 09:25 AM by TheLastMohican
These guys are so much different as apples and oranges.
Yeltsin was to Russia what is now Bush for US.
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. TheLastMohican
TheLastMohican

Boris Jelstin and Vladimir Putin is two very different people, I know that.. Mr Jelstin was known for his drinking.. And Mr Putin is rather known for the fact that he doesn't drink... or a least dring very carefully... I doubt we have seen Mr Putin drunk in public the 8 year he has been president... He is a verry private person to, so I guess we don't know how he is in "Private":

To compare Jelstin to Bush are maybe little unfair on the side of Jelstin.. Mr Jelstin was maybe not the "best" president every time the 10 year he was president he have not given Russia so much a bad name as Bush have been doing to US in 8 year.... And Jelstin have to build up a new country on the ruins of the old Soviet Union... And Jelstin have to try to fix a economy who was totally broke... The whole country was broke, and if you thing about how the Russian state was in the 1990s, not surprising that Boris Jelstin was drinking heavy.. I doubt you,me or everyone in the world would have managed to stay sober, when your country is falling apart, and big chunk of your country are going independent with all the economical,social political and military issues that was making...

Bush have NOT managed to destroy US, and have all the 50 states splitting apart yet... But if US was to broke up in many pieces, I really believe that it would go true the same pages as Russia have been doing the last 17 year or so..

Diclotican

SOrry my bad English, not my native language


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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:16 AM
Response to Original message
10. old habits really do die hard.
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7 of 11 Donating Member (174 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:26 AM
Response to Original message
11. Old Russian saying:
"what is old is new again"
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
34. And another Russian saying,
And another Russian saying,

"The war was bought with American spam, and paid for with Russian blood" (on the allied victory in Europe in '45)
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #34
40. LanternWaste
LanternWaste

In many cases it was probably true too.. The war in Russia was horrible, and germany was treating their russian POW horrible.. They was in the leadership of germany, no wort, and should have been killed... And hundred of thousands of russian was also killed...

And hundred of thousands of civilian was starved to their death, because Germany wanted the food for them self, They even calculated that 30.000.000 russian was needed to be killed, so their german masters should have the food needed to suvirve... That us synical..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:31 AM
Response to Original message
12. kskiska
kskiska

Off course we can be worried, as this parade was used by the old soviet to demonstrate their power, military power it was then.. But the may 9 celebration was not a public holiday to celebrate USSR but to celebrate the end of the WW2 where USSR celebrated that the german was defeated..

But thats is something many had lost in translation when they was seeing the best of the old soviet army mashing down read square maybe.. ?

Better to be scared, then to hold the fact indeed?

Diocletian

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Welcome to DU....your input is appreciated
I am guessing you are maybe Russian? Good screen name.
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. ooglymoogly
ooglymoogly

MEE?. Not from Russia, but our country have a 160km long border with Russia... And we have always managed to have a good relation to Russia, even under the cold war, where it was many cases just minutes from shooting war in the North part of our country...

Some co-worker I have worked some year ago, told a story when they was in the army, where they experienced the cold war going much more hotter than they was happy about.. When Russian armed forced was on the border area, and they could hear the engines from thousands of tanks... They was given sharp ammo, and the order, that if russian forces was to enter our side of the border, shot for kill... This was in the 1960s and in the 1970s...

The screen name are name I have used for Long time here and other places where I discuss.. The name is coming from a old Roman Emperor named Diocletian who ruled the roman empire, together with a another emperor I don't remember for the moment. He was ruling the empire in a time where the whole fabric of the empire was in full fall, and it was just accidence that the empire of the roman survived so long as it was (this was in the 300s) Most famous for the fact that he lived more than 20 year, after he public retired from office. With the good help of a legion of roman soldiers in his fortress-city off course... But hey, the roman emperor was living a deadly life, so why not defend himself, with trustworthy soldiers...

Anyway, he is in fact the only emperor who survived so long, after his retirement, and he was known to be a god gardener.. The flower he was working with after he was retired, was famous both in the western court, and in the eastern court... He was a hardworking man when he was a emperor, and a hardworking man after he was retired.. And he was dying from natural cases when he finally died, in a age of over 80...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. I believe there were four co rulers, two major and two minor
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 03:27 AM by ooglymoogly
co rulers. Since it was impossible to control the vast empire from the capital, he thought to divide it into four large districts, ruled by four supreme governors with full powers. But it was not possible to create four leaders with the same power so he decided that two of them called "Augusti" were the main leaders and the other two called "Cesari" subordinated to them. This system was called "tetrarchia", rule by four people. The capital was tranferred from Rome to Milan. I spent 12 years in Rome and that is one of the reasons I liked the name. Don't worry too much about the English. We understand having foreign input and insight is valuable. But it doesn't hurt to mention it anyway. Your pronunciation of it seems to me to be the old Persian pronunciation like Alexander was pronounced Xandahar and several other pronunciations which were I believe names of ancient Persian cities named after Alexander the great.
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. ooglymoogly
ooglymoogly

You are totally correct;). The 300s was a inter sting time in the roman empire. As you pointed out, it was impossible for the roman emperor alone to get the oversight over every corner of the empire.. Al this barbars and social upwhals was killing the old Antonie age of peace and the hundred and so year following Antonius Pius? was transforming the whole empire to the late roman empire we know a lot more about.. The whole 300s are a confusing age where little is known as fact, but we do know the broader specter of the roman empire then.. But the details can be little confusing and less reliable then the broader specter...

For the Romans it most be a bad omen that the capital was going from Rome to Milan, who was better suited as both capital and military command post.. And it was just so much better defensible then Rome who was sacked many times from the late 330s and up the 400s..

You have lived in Rome;).Nice I have never been to Rome myself, but I have read a lot of the City.. Maybe I would travel there someday, to se what I have read allot of: It must be interesting to be in Rome, where you literal are walking in the footsteps of history.

Just want to warn other, that I am not a native English speaker.. Was meet by the "grammar police" the first time I was here, and just want to warn everyone;)..

Alexander the great named in fact more than 20 city's after himself.. Kandahar in Afghanistan, are the modern name of one of the Alexander-polis he founded when he was in that area I have read somewhere.. And for the most part, the City's who are in the eastern part of the old Empire of Alexander, the city are still living, but by other names, and with more than 2000 year of rebuilding and war, not much of the age of Alexander is there anymore.. Not even in Alexandria, the former capital of one of the generals of Alexander, after his dead, are it much again for the ancient greek culture.. Some ruins, but a lot under ground, where contractors often have a hell of time when the archeologies are digging to save the most they can..

And Alexander the Great was a man with visions, he wanted to build a greek-persian empire and that was not exactly popular with the macedonian and greek officers.. But he was a stubborn man, and managed to build up a empire.. But after his dead, aged 33? the empire fall apart, to difert culture and to different interest was in the way of destroying the whole thing.. But he must have given a impression for the age down. because he is known even today, 2500 year after he died...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:52 AM
Response to Original message
15. Here's what will be displayed thanks to Bush's aggression:

S-300 Missile Defense System





Topol-M ICBM





Russian Soldiers



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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. cboy4
cboy4

Interesting weapon system... Russia have not been sleeping in class even that they have not had the money to made it in big numbers...

And it is possible a way of show to the world "if you really want to go war with us, be prepared we have a lot of weapon just waiting for your soldiers name on it"..

Russia have a long history of being attacked by other forces, Their military doctrine is pretty clear, if you want to read it...
"Don't get into a war with us, then we would let you alone"

On the other hand, if they was attacked russia can be a tricky enemy.... Like the german and others learned the hard way.. Even US with all the military power, cant blow all russian made armory out and occupier the whole area.. Russia is to big, and the armed forces of US to smal... If they don't want to conscript the whole male population in US then.. And even then they may get into more problem then they wanted.. In 1941 it was more then 4.3 million soldiers on the russian border... And they all lost it...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. To say nothing of Napolian's adventure into Russia
for which the history books are rife with stories of the total humiliation of his great army by nothing more than Russian foxiness and adamant persistence.
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. ooglymoogly
ooglymoogly

Correct.. The grand army of Napoleon was been beating hard when they was traveling into Russia in 1814.. 21 Jun in fact.. Adolf Hitler was in fact 100 year, to the day after when he waged the war with Russia in 1941...

And, many are saying that both Napoleon and Hitler overstretched their army in russia. Both have some very high believe that Russia would be beaten in some weeks, maybe even monts.. Napoleon should never have send his grand army into russia.. He may have had the grand army when the brits was given the french some beating in the year following the grand army's fall in Russia too...

Germany on the other hand, really believed than in august 1941, the Russian Bear was killed, and that they was there to just mop up the rest.. They was totally wrong, and in Stalingrad the german forces of 6 army was bleeding to the death, against the russian army who managed to encircle the army and starve it to submission... And after that, even the generals in Hitlers headquarter in Rastenberg know, the time was up and it was just time before the Russian was coming for them.. Many of them managed to escape to the West, in time to be arrested by the western power.. And in many cases given a much better treatment then in the east...

It is best not to wake the russian Bear.. Not poke the bear to much, because a Bear can kill everyone in eyesight if the bear is crancy enough.. And to treated to use nuclear weapon against Russian interest, is to poke to mutch... And it can be wherry dangerous, when it come to it.. Why cant politician se to learn from history???

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language
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Voltaire99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
25. I'll say this for those Commie parades...
Even in their sheer, armageddon-promising madness, they manage to be more watchable than a bunch of Arkansas rednecks screaming HOOAH! at our lamebrain president as he leads them in war whoops.

Actually, apart from style, there's very little difference between the two -- they're both forms of madness. But style counts.

Austere Commie Parades 1, Freedom-Luvin' Redneck Mercenary Army Hooah Review 0
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boricua79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #25
32. totally in agreement
we try to paint ourselves as somehow better, but we're the same way. They have parades, and we have those hicks shouting Whooha...

We're not above "demonstrative military policies"...we used it in 1945 with the Atom bomb in Japan and we did it more recently with "Shock and Awe". Military establishments are the same everywhere: cruel, unthinking, promoting drone-like behavior and mentality, wasteful, and an expression of the worst of humanity. I share Albert Einstein's disdain of goose-stepping military types.

The only retort they have is that we depend on their service for our liberties. As if we could never fight for it if it came down to it.

Last time I check, this country was created and defended by regular folk...not professional military types. We don't need your "saving us", military-types.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:38 AM
Response to Original message
26. I hope the world and the Russian public reject this militarist, bush-like, message.
It's like if Rudy Giuliani took over Russia. Get the public to be scared of an enemy so that they can distract from the real problems.

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DRoseDARs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
28. ...further wasting money Russia doesn't have. n/t
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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
29. Oh dear. GWB won't be able to let a "mine's bigger than your's" parade go unanswered.
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
33. Sad to say, but this helps world peace.
The more that Russia asserts itself as a counterweight to US global ambitions, the more constrained will be the warmongers. Highly paradoxical, indeed.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
35. It'll be just like the Super Bowl. n/t
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
42. Why not? Russia, China and Amerika are now pretty much governed the same
We ARE treated nicer because the Bushies don't want to wake us up until it's too late.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
49. Let's rock like it's 1974!!! nt
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