Egypt Closes Breached Border with Gaza

[Hissyspit]

Source: Associated Press

Egypt closes breached border with Gaza
By IBRAHIM BARZAK, Associated Press Writer

RAFAH, Gaza Strip - Egyptian troops closed the last breach in Egypt's border with the Gaza Strip Sunday, ending 11 days of free movement for Palestinian residents of the blockaded territory, witnesses and Hamas security officials said.

Hamas police aided with the closure, drawing pistols and arresting Palestinians who were throwing stones at Egyptian troops along the frontier. It was a dramatic turnabout for Hamas, whose militants had used explosives to bring down the border wall.

The Egyptian troops were allowing Gazans and Egyptians to cross the border to return to their homes on the other side but prevented any new cross-border movement, according to witnesses and Hamas security officials in the border town of Rafah. The Hamas officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the press. Israel issued no immediate comment on the closure.

Egyptian soldiers patrolled in armored personnel carriers and stood in sandbagged emplacements on nearby rooftops, and dozens of Gazans looked on as the Egyptians resealed the border. About 100 Egyptian police formed a human cordon at the border wall's main gate. Dozens of cars and people lined up on either side of the border, some having stocked up on supplies before crossing.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080203/ap_on_re_mi_ea/palestinians_egypt_border

[mbperrin]

1. Oh, the horror! People spending their own money for goods!

Overpriced jacked up profiteered goods at that. But I agree, eating overpriced groceries beats starving to death. I cannot understand why anyone thinks the Palestinians should just lie down and die quietly. Try this: ask anybody at all how they would feel if (your favorite boogeyman here) fenced in your neighborhood and simply prohibited goods and people from entering or exiting for any reason, and what they might do to ensure their family's survival. No one will ever say, well, just succumb to the outside authority.

Then for some reason, when you ask about Gaza, many will say, oh, those troublemakers deserve whatever they get. I cannot understand the dehumanization of those in Gaza and its ready acceptance by so many. Here the threat to Egypt is that people will spend their own money to buy goods for their families. Wow.

[Xithras]

2. Egypt does not want Hamas-style militant Islam spreading into its country.

Egypt already has enough problems with religious radicals without risking an open border to a pseudo-country that is actually RUN by a militantly religious government that advocates spreading its brand of Islamic government across the middle east (those with long memories also remember Black September in Jordan, and fear a Palestinian replay within their own borders). They also know that an open border with Palestine will inevitably lead to that border being used to smuggle arms and sympathizing fighters across the border, which will anger Israel. Egypt has been on the bad side of Israel more than once, and today has a peaceful relationship with them. They don't want to jeopardize that for the Palestinians.

[BearSquirrel2]

3. They're not expected to lie down ...

They're expected to kill the people who are firing the rockets.

Let's not forget that this is an act of warfare against Israel. If your neighboring town was firing rockets at you, you'd be none too happy. And if it didn't stop you'd be inclined to do something about it.

Hamas is engaging it outright acts of warfare. Israel doesn't want to go back in and re-occupy. Consider this the Palestinian opportunity to clean up their act before Israel takes matters into their own hands.

And BTW, if someone fired a rocket at my house, I would have no qualms about driving a tank right up their ass and taking out anyone standing next to them regardless of who they are. If the question is whether your kid dies, or the other guys, you damn well which kid you would choose.

[happyslug]

4. Would you drive that tank and kill people who just happen to live in the same town?

That is what the Israelis are doing, going to the town where the rockets were fired from and punishing the entire town. The reason is the Israelis can NOT determine who launched the rocket (or if the launchers were even from that town). This is like someone getting mug by your home and the victims relatives going to YOUR HOME to punish you for not stopping it (Cut off your heat and electricity for the crime, even through it is clear you had nothing to do with it). Such collective punishment violate International law. Especially if aimed at the Civilian population.

This is the problem, Israel wants Hamas to do something about these Rocket attacks. Abbas has no real authority in Gaza, thus what he says does not matter. Furthermore Hamas WON control of Gaza in a free and fair election the result of which was opposed by Abbas who tried to undo the election results and was driven out for his efforts.

As to loses, the Palestinians have suffer WAY more loses than the Israelis (8 Israelis killed vs 123 Palestinians). What would you do if 123 of your neighbors were Killed? You re willing to drive a tank into Gaza for 8 dead, what would you do for 123 dead? Thus almost 94% of all deaths have been Palestinians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Israel-Gaza_conflict

For more on the Abbas _hamas fight:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_factional_violence

I am sorry given the conditions in Gaza, the best solution for the Israelis is to accept the losses. Sooner or later Hamas will accept the Rockets are NOT doing any good and stop launching them. This may take a few years and the end will be one day the Rocket launcher will just lock they production facilities and never return. That is how such conflicts end, both sides accept the other (Notice I use the word "accept" not tolerate or agree with each other) and learn to live side by side. As long as the Israelis endure the rockets and ignore them, the effect will be minor. Hamas can NOT launch any serious form of attack on Israel and israel knows this. Israel can NOT occupy Gaza, to many Palestinians which require to many Israeli Troops. If the Israeli can catch the launchers that is good and effective, but if the launcher just move on retaliating against the launching sights is worse than useless for you have to destroy things that the launching of the small rockets did not even touch. You in prove WHY Hamas should be shooting the rockets. Ignore them and it will either die way OR the launchers will get sloppy and you can capture them. Either way you solve the problem after a few years.

As to the isolation of Gaza, you have in effect used your trump card AND HAMAS CALLED IT WHEN IT BLEW OPEN THE WALL TO EGYPT. Egypt has closed the wall but for how long? Egypt has its own radical Moslem movement which support Hamas (The Moslem Brotherhood). The closing of the wall strengthened the Moslem brotherhood for it shows the Egyptian people (Who tend to support the Palestinians) that the Government is supporting Israel NOT the Palestinians.

AS a hold the Israelis are in a tough situation, which can blow up in their face if it causes Egypt to turn radical. The better solution would be to keep the electricity to Gaza on, keep the border open and try to find where the rockets are being made and destroy the plant. Take the heat and slowly permit the Palestinians to improve their standard of living. Once it starts to improve, support for Hamas continuing the rocket attacks will die off. This may take 4-5 years but you can NOT leave a group of people fester on your border with no hope of ever seeing an improvement in their lives. That is the situation in Gaza, and will continue till Israel accepts that situation is unacceptable and do something about it.

[MarkR1717]

5. Yes. We must allow Hamas to fire rockets into Israel...

... It is their own fault, and they deserve it.

"Take the heat and slowly permit the Palestinians to improve their standard of living. Once it starts to improve, support for Hamas continuing the rocket attacks will die off. This may take 4-5 years......"

Oh, for goodness sake!!!

[mbperrin]

6. Well said.

Collective punishment is morally repugnant. And yes, obviously the Palestinians are getting the worst of it. Heard of any Israelis having to escape to another country to buy groceries?

[BearSquirrel2]

8. Theres a older word for collective punishment ...

There is an older word for collective punishment, it's called WAR.

BTW, the Palestinians have their own form of collective punishment, it's called terrorism. If you want to retaliate for something a general does ... they launch a rocket into a civilian area, or they blow up a cafe. Sorry Jenny, you lost your arms because of Palestinian indiscriminate punishment.

I readily submit the situation is asymmetric and Israel has the far greater ability to do harm. However, the facts on the ground is that Gaza is not in the hands of Hamas. Instead of pursuing self improvement, Hamas is lobbing missiles at Israel and threatening to invade. These are acts of war.

[mbperrin]

7. So find the people firing the rockets.

Exactly. Get those individual people firing the rockets, not everyone who lives inside the same lines drawn on a map. Otherwise, when a fundamentalist Christian nut blows up an abortion clinic, we are morally entitled to blow up every church who preaches against abortion. Same exact reasoning.

[ohio2007]

10. easy as fingering members of MS-13, the Bloods or any other gang bangers living in your "hood"?

sure it is ;)

you would be the enemy of the hood


Thousands Celebrate In Streets Of Gaza Upon News Of Dimona Suicide Attacks' Success -
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b36_1202136511

[ohio2007]

9. Suicide bombers strike Israel ( coincidence? )

The Moment Israeli Paramedics Realised They Were Treating The Second Bomber.

Video shows the moment Israeli paramedics realised it was the second bomber they were treating.
And Supt Kobe Mor Takes Aim.
Video also includes footage of the 2 suicide bombers home video


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=94c_1202151662

I wonder how Hamas would treat an Israeli suicide bomber if they knew...
he was a..... ?