US Compares 9/11 Trials to Nuremberg

[Newsjock]

Source: Associated Press

The Bush administration has instructed U.S. diplomats abroad to defend its decision to seek the death penalty for six Guantanamo Bay detainees accused in the Sept. 11 terror attacks by recalling the executions of Nazi war criminals after World War II.

A four-page cable sent to U.S. embassies and obtained Tuesday by The Associated Press says that execution as punishment for extreme violations of the laws of war is internationally accepted and points to the 1945-46 International Military Tribunals as an example. Twelve of Adolf Hitler's senior aides were sentenced to death at the trials in Nuremberg, Germany, although not all were executed in the end.

The unclassified cable was sent by the State Department to all U.S. diplomatic missions worldwide late on Monday.

In it, the department advises American diplomats to refer to Nuremberg if asked by foreign governments or media about the legality of capital punishment in the 9/11 cases.

... The cable makes no link between the scale of the crimes perpetrated by the Nazis, which included the Holocaust that killed some 6 million European Jews and other minorities, and those allegedly committed by the Guantanamo detainees, who are accused of murder and war crimes in connection with 9/11, in which nearly 3,000 people died.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/02/12/national/w122612S81.DTL&tsp=1

[msongs]

1. it would only be like nuremberg if BUSH/CHENEY were on trial IMO nt

[Zorra]

12. And the rest of their PNAC fascist traitor cabal as well. n/t

[ixion]

32. exactly

[superconnected]

2. I had no idea nuremberg was full of cover ups and documents the press/people couldn't see.

I didn't even know they had secret prisons and killed people from secret trials.

I guess I learn something new everyday.

[bemildred]

3. They will regret bringing up Nuremburg. nt

[angstlessk]

4. As I recall at that time England still hung people, and France used the guillotine?

AND the trials were PUBLIC!

[PDJane]

5. Wrong analogy.

Not the Neuremberg trials, but the Leipzig trial after the Reichstag Fire.

If these men weren't so deadly, their heavy-handedness and stupidity would be amusing.

[gateley]

20. I'm off to Wiki - I learn so much here on DU - thank you!! nt

[PDJane]

22. You're welcome.......

I spent some time on the world wars in college. This bunch haven't gotten one damn thing about the Third Reich right, either.....they are the closest comparison to Hitler, and if I hear doofus compare himself to Churchill one more time I'm going to scream and throw things.

[gateley]

43. Even I can see the similarities between Hitler and this crowd. Thanks again! nt

[gateley]

21. DUPE - AGAIN!! Is it just me? nt

[Judi Lynn]

31. No way! The Dupe monster has taken down a bunch of us! No fun at all. n/t

[defendandprotect]

6. The Crazed GIANT and the fleas . . .

[Supersedeas]

41. *spot on*

[Hulk]

7. The only trials that can be compared to the Nuremberg trials would be if we ever hold these....

....criminals in this disgusting administration accountable for their crimes against this country and the world.

How many deaths are they responsible for now??? Sleep well tonight chimp, cause if there is a hell, and I certainly pray for your sake their is, you'll roast on a spit for eternity.

[mike_c]

8. it'll be like Nuremberg when Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Rice are in the dock...

...along with their staffs and toadies.

[jordi_fanclub]

9. YES! Nuremberg... I can see...

[NBachers]

10. Extra Points for John Bolton n/t

[earthside]

11. Did We Waterboard Goering?

I don't remember that part of history.

Kind of hard to have a fair trial when the evidence against the defendants was gained through torture ... kind of a big difference with Nuremberg.

[UpInArms]

13. this is such an obvious Rovian ploy to reverse the actual facts

that it bends the minds of everyone.

When black is white and war is peace

this will work as a defense

let us all flashback to the lies



flash forward to reality:

"Study: Bush led US to War on False Premises: Hundreds of False Statements, Al Quaida, Led Used to Justify Iraq war"
[br />

"It is now beyond dispute that Iraq did not possess any weapons of mass destruction or have meaningful ties to al-Qaida," according to Charles Lewis and Mark Reading-Smith of the Fund for Independence in Journalism staff members, writing an overview of the study. "In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003."

Named in the study along with Bush were top officials of the administration during the period studied: Vice President Dick Cheney, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and White House press secretaries Ari Fleischer and Scott McClellan.

Bush led with 259 false statements, 231 about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and 28 about Iraq's links to al-Qaida, the study found. That was second only to Powell's 244 false statements about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and 10 about Iraq and al-Qaida.

[MadMaddie]

14. They are still looking for that legacy...I almost fell out of my

chair when I read the headline.

[FVZA_Colonel]

28. That's what Bush wants.

He wants to be able to say that people were tried for 9/11 under his watch. Nevermind the fact that evidence may well have been gained under torture should taint the forthcoming verdicts in any civilized court...

[catnhatnh]

15. Yes, I accept this rationale because war crimes trials are important....

...So just so soon as they render themselves to the Hague where they will neither be waterboarded nor face the death penalty to answer the charges against themselves AND ARE ACQUITTED, I will accept their moral suasion and support their attempts to quietly kill just six more to cover the last million.

[grizmaster]

16. Nuremburg=Death Penalty for invading without provocation

just like bush did in Iraq.

So does this mean we're calling for the death penalty for bush and those in the administration that did exactly what the nazis did-- Invade and occupy a country with the excuse of "pre-emptive war".

If only our country would once again embrace the Nuremburg Principles and stop committing war crimes.

For those not familiar, I call special attention to the rampant violations by bush et al of Pinciple VI.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Principles

Principle I
Any person who commits an act which constitutes a crime under international law is responsible therefore and liable to punishment.


Principle II
The fact that internal law does not impose a penalty for an act which constitutes a crime under international law does not relieve the person who committed the act from responsibility under international law.


Principle III
The fact that a person who committed an act which constitutes a crime under international law acted as Head of State or responsible government official does not relieve him from responsibility under international law.


Principle IV
The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him.


Principle V
Any person charged with a crime under international law has the right to a fair trial on the facts and law.


Principle VI
The crimes hereinafter set out are punishable as crimes under international law:

(a) Crimes against peace:
(i) Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances;
(ii) Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under (i).

(b) War Crimes:
Violations of the laws or customs of war which include, but are not limited to, murder, ill-treatment or deportation of slave labor or for any other purpose of the civilian population of or in occupied territory; murder or ill-treatment of prisoners of war or persons on the Seas, killing of hostages, plunder of public or private property, wanton destruction of cities, towns, or villages, or devastation not justified by military necessity.

(c) Crimes against humanity:
Murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation and other inhumane acts done against any civilian population, or persecutions on political, racial, or religious grounds, when such acts are done or such persecutions are carried on in execution of or in connection with any crime against peace or any war crime.

Principle VII
Complicity in the commission of a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity as set forth in Principle VI is a crime under international law.

[kelligesq]

23. Yes. Now who do we know who did that?

:shrug:

[kelligesq]

24. K & R

:puke:

[Barrett808]

17. Do these guys actually know anything about History?

Or do they just fake it and wave their hands when necessary?

[PDJane]

25. No, they don't know one damn thing about history.

They haven't got any curiosity about history.

[daleo]

18. Did the allies torture German suspects?

No. It is a travesty to compare this to Nuremberg.

[FVZA_Colonel]

29. It's an insult to compare it to the work that the men and women of the USA, Britain, Canada et. al.

did to bring the leaders of the Third Reich to justice.

[salin]

33. and weren't there international courts hearing the trials, not secret "tribunals?"

eom

[badgervan]

19. At What Point....

... does the disillusionment of our "leaders" qualify them/him for removal from office? This is really getting worse by the day lately.

[cstanleytech]

26. Oh, I was not aware that

the US used torture to coerce confessions way back then as well.
Guess the old saying that roughly goes "the more things change the more things stay the same" is true, well done Mr President, well done.
I am sure the american people must be proud that you are still upholding such a proud legacy of continuing to use the same old time honored techniques for questioning suspects.

[Oak2004]

27. So do I

I look at the trials, see torture... illegal invasion... kangaroo courts denying basic human rights...

And then, yes, I think of Nuremberg. Or the Hague.

Really, anywhere would be a fine place to put the Bush Administration on trial.

[truthisfreedom]

30. It's as if (and I don't doubt it) bushco studies DU to find ways to create straw men.

They take our opinions about them and convert them into opinions about harmless victims.

[Solly Mack]

34. I'm sputtering

[salin]

35. their shamelessness - and assumption that we are ignorant

is astounding. But bushco is telling Diplomats to try to sell this line internationally... making it even more embarassing as they export their arrogance and blatant in your face "we think you all, too, are ignorant idiots".

[Solly Mack]

37. the sheer magnitude of their shamelessness leaves me breathless

and they are indeed calling people ignorant, I agree

[salin]

38. what is kind of interesting... but I doubt that they realize

is that by pushing this argument out into the international community... they also push the comparison (and perhaps call for in the future) international court hearings vs. secret tribunals (ala the old gulags?)

[Solly Mack]

39. They're going to get all kinds of comparisons they would rather not get

especially in the international community

Though I'd wager they are also counting on certain comparisons.

Mostly, Bush Inc wants Americans to feel as if he gave Americans "justice" for "911"

and some will feel just that, sadly

Also, it's an endgame, sweep the rest under the rug because they're all dead (or imprisoned for life) now anyway, move.

Later, we'll get a lot of "we could have done things differently...done them better... but well, the world was different then ("post-911" world) and we did the best we could...so move on."

The one thing there won't be is justice (or the full truth, for that matter)...you can't achieve justice admist such corruption and criminality. You can create the illusion of justice by controlling the evidence presented, the information released to the public, and by manufacturing and carefully nurturing the official story.

[salin]

40. Its almost as if he wants the ICC to come after him after he leaves office.

As if it wasn't enough to stick his thumb on his nose to congress, the constitution and the american people, but now we will do it to the international community.

I really have to wonder, and I didn't earlier speculate on this due to the emmense power of the US, if we may not see some international tribunals trying some members of the bush admin in the future.

[kentauros]

45. My first thought to this was for the reaction

from all the other countries' diplomats and if they would be putting our diplomats in the hotseat, bringing up all the salient points y'all have here... I highly suspect they will, too :)

[boricua79]

36. the analogy does not work

These men were war criminals who had a full, fair chance at a trial. The 9/11 conspirators have often been denied their due process, and given this government's propensity to make stuff up, we can't be sure we actually have the people responsible. That's, of course, if you believe the official story.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

42. More like Sacco and Vanzetti (look it up if you don't know)

As other posters have said, it would be like the Nuremberg Trials only if the whole Bush administration (and everyone down the chain of command who permitted atrocities to happen) were shipped off to the Hague.

[coalition_unwilling]

44. One can always hope -n/t