Cindy Sheehan in Egypt for Islamists

[BobbyVan]

Source: AP

Anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan joined a protest Wednesday seeking the support of Egypt's first lady in ending a military trial of members of the country's largest Islamic organization.

Under the watchful eyes of dozens of black-clad and helmeted anti-riot police, some 50 heavily veiled wives and children of 40 senior members of the Muslim Brotherhood detained for the past year, gathered in front of the headquarters of first lady Suzanne Mubarak's National Council Women carrying banners calling for their release.

"I am here to protest the trial of civilians in front of a military tribunal as this is a violation to international law," said Sheehan, who gained fame in the U.S. for her sit-in outside President Bush's Texas ranch following the death of her son in Iraq.

"As a mother of a son who was killed in the war, I presented a letter to Ms. Suzanne Mubarak to realize how those women and children are suffering."

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080213/ap_on_re_mi_ea/egypt_sheehan_protest

[closeupready]

1. Sort of strange.

Shouldn't she be focusing her energy here in the US?

[CreekDog]

3. Well, she's running for congress in San Francisco

err, from Egypt. I guess it doesn't affect her chances very much anyway.

[EFerrari]

13. Why? Are we so limited that we can't chew gum and walk?

[closeupready]

35. Good point. I guess what I was trying to say was

that I don't understand how the alleged mistreatment by Egyptian authorities of Egyptians who have been accused of belonging to a terrorist organization is related to Ms. Sheehan's personal tragedy w/r/t Casey, because while she should know better than me, I would guess that Casey's focus - were he still alive - would be on getting us out of Iraq ASAP, or else doing something positive which is more related to the Iraq War or even Gitmo's treatment of prisoners.

But hey, if that's what she wants to do, no skin off my nose.

[proud2BlibKansan]

99. It's a human rights issue

and Cindy feels pretty strongly about human rights.

[Freddie Stubbs]

45. Reminds me of Dennis Kucinich using campaign funds to visit Syria

How well did that work out?

[EFerrari]

47. For whom?

[Telly Savalas]

173. Given the limited results we've seen in the last seven years

yeah, we are so limited we can't chew gum and walk.

[plasticsundance]

54. Nah! Your Empire's dead!

Good riddance, too. There's not enough geopolitical and geostrategical viagra in existence to pump up the flailing US hegemony. Manifest Destiny was unmanifesting even prior the invasion of Iraq in 2003.

The US certainly will never rate with the great 1000-year old empires. Rome brought us plumbing and the United States: Reality TV.

Cindy Sheehan is a true progressive that is ready for the new international and geostrategical alliances coming onto the global stage.

She would do well to acquaint herself with Nawal El Saadawi.

[closeupready]

65. Rome also exterminated animal species, and killed Christians for fun and entertainment.

The US liberated Europe (TWICE!) and the prisoners of the death camps, and gave the world the polio vaccine. I like my country. You don't need to get belligerent.

[Popol Vuh]

147. Actually

We (the US) were late comers to both wars and it would be more accurate to say we tipped the balance when we arrived. And sorry to say, but, in World War II the Russians played a bigger role in defeating Hitler.

Christians? If we're going to bring up Christians lets us not forget that they have exterminated more people, molested more children and purposely wrecked more cultures than any other group throughout history.

Death camps? What about the Trail of Tears, Sand Creek, Wounded Knee, Removal Act, Manifest Destiny, etc, etc, etc?

BTW the Maya and Aztec and other indigenous Americans had plumbing and gave the (then) starving Europe potatoes, corn, peppers and tomatoes, etc and brought Europe out of a devastating starvation.

I bring this up as a reminder to keep proper historic perspective when posting these kinds of posts.

[closeupready]

152. Good points. I also support human rights wherever there are humans.

No culture is perfect. So, to that extent, I agree with the principle of her protest. Though I detest what the Muslim Brotherhood has done and most of the things it seems to stand for. So I think she is making a mistake, but again, no skin off my nose.

[Jed Dilligan]

91. The Sumerians had plumbing nt

[INDIA]

113. Ignorance. Get Bent. n/t

[zonkers]

75. She's the Lone Ranger, fighting injustice wherever it may be.

[jedr]

2. Ed Schultz commented yesterday that Cindy was in Jail,

anyone know the story?

[Joanne98]

4. Boy, has she got balls!

[BobbyVan]

5. This is idiotic

Didn't a bunch of Al Qaeda guys come from the Muslim Brotherhood (like Al Zawahiri)? Why is she shilling for them now? She should focus on protesting the Iraq war from the USA.

[wellst0nev0ter]

8. The Brotherhood Is NOT on the terrorism watch list. (n/t)

[harun]

11. They are the opposition political party in Egypt and are hence

banned, tortured, and not allowed to have meetings. Honsi Mubarak has been president of Egypt since Oct, 14th 1981. In large part because the U.S. has propped him up for all these years. How would you like if G.W. was president for 26 years?

[pegleg]

64. SHE HAS LOST IT N/T

[LeftishBrit]

83. I agree that Mubarak is a dictator and is nasty to this group because they oppose him...

But Brezhnev was also a dictator and was nasty to the forerunners of the Taliban because they opposed him. Nevertheless, they proved to be not very desirable people, and defending them and building them up proved not to be such a good idea.

If Cindy Sheehan was campaigning for human rights for all opposition groups (e.g. in Burma, Kenya, etc.), then it would make more sense to include this group. But it seems strange for her to focus on them in particular.

They are a nasty group - NOT because they're Muslim but because they're theocrats and support violence against civilians. I also would also think it strange if Sheehan were focusing on defending Pat Robertson's supporters or the Kahanists. They deserve the protection of the law, the same as anyone else, but why is Sheehan not then also focussing on other groups that deserve the protection of the law?

[EFerrari]

89. She's been all over. But look at the frame of this story.

It's meant to make her look peculiar. Had it been honest, the reporter might have listed all the other places she has gone to advocate for social justice and human rights. Hit piece.

[unkachuck]

9. agreed....

"I am here to protest the trial of civilians in front of a military tribunal as this is a violation to international law..."

....you can say what you want about Cindy, but you have to admit, the woman has guts....

....what we need is a new political party full of Cindy's to turn this country around....Go Cindy Go!

[INDIA]

32. "what we need is a new political party full of Cindy's to turn this country around"

:rofl:

Why start a new party? Why doesn't Cindy just bring the Muslim Brotherhood to the United States? THATLL WORKS U GUYZ! SERIES! CINDY 4 PREZ! MUZLIM BOTHERHUD 4 EVER!

[BobbyVan]

187. .

[madrchsod]

6. the muslim brotherhood? she`s batshit crazy

....she`s going to be lucky to get back into the usa with out being arrested

[EFerrari]

14. Yep. You have to be crazy these days

to defend international human rights. No kidding.

[khaos]

77. batshit crazy? every time I hear/read those words I picture a smug piece of shit like hannity..

it's interesting how certain terms are injected into the vernacular and how they are used.

[Tom Joad]

176. Human Rights!! my god... a politician can't win on a platform of human rights!

[davidinalameda]

7. hate to say this

but maybe the cons are right about her

she has gone around the bend

how can anyone support these people-she's just making herself look bad

[The Stranger]

33. Who are "these people"?

The political prisoners she seems to be assisting? Or are you just saying helping anyone Muslim makes one look bad?

[LanternWaste]

145. Wouldn't the questions be...

"how can anyone support these people"

They are victims of political repression. Wouldn't the questions be, "how can anyone NOT defend these people"

What one person may see as "gone around the bed" may also (and just as validly) be perceived as an intense passion for human rights. The only difference being how much we allow ourselves to be manipulated by a juicy lede.

[BobbyVan]

148. Sorry, but I'm not losing any sleep over the Muslim Brotherhood

[LanternWaste]

154. Most likely you won't...

Most likely you won't. And I think that's one reason why SC will. However many people don't have the luxury to determine who is, or is not the greater victim.

Many people simply see victimization and attempt to end it-- regardless of color, faith, or which side of the imaginary red and blue lines on a map they live on...

[BobbyVan]

155. If Cindy didn't speak out against the Muslim Brotherhood's views, she wasted her trip

Do you think Cindy Sheehan challenged any of them on their views on repressing women, denying the holocaust, or supporting terrorism against civilians?

Nah, I'll bet she just hugged them.

[LanternWaste]

156. I don't know, so I certainly won't make the claim.

I don't know, so I certainly won't make the claim.

However, since you appear to have an absolute insight into both her agenda and her means, you may raise your fist with righteous indignation and tell us all "How dare she save the wrong kind of people..." with little interference from me.

[liberalsoldier5]

10. What a dipshit.

At least she's not one of ours anymore!

[proud2BlibKansan]

101. Not so fast

She has quite a few supporters here on DU and in the Democratic party.

[Xenotime]

12. It's sad. I used to really support Cindy. Now, I just don't understand.

[High Plains]

15. Shame on these sneering DU posters!

Cindy Sheehan is taking a principled stand.

The Moslem Brotherhood is a repressed political movement.

Are political rights only for people we agree with?

Are we against military tribunals only when it's our government?

I don't always agree with Ms. Sheehan, but she is doing the right thing here.

Now, do you guys have anything with more substance than "batshit crazy"?

[davidinalameda]

16. is the Moslem Brotherhood some great democratic movement for Egypt

or just a bunch of theocrats who want to impose strict Islamic law on Egypt and turn it into another Iran

there are plenty of groups that need defending but the Moslem Brotherhood is not one of them



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood

[barb162]

34. They're just a bunch of theocrats who want to impose strict Islamic law

And Sheehan keeps radicalizing herself more and more. If she is "really" running against Pelosi in a northern CA congressional district, then what the heck is she doing in Egypt sucking up to Muslim Bro.?

[Malikshah]

49. I call BS

Look into the past and present history--

it's not monolithic

Stop the insanity, and go peddle your jihadwatch crap elsewhere.

[fascisthunter]

67. Bigotry of Islam

[barb162]

144. BS

[Phx_Dem]

116. Do you support a Islamic Caliphate?

Because the MB does:

Main objectives

A huge tree of "sub-goals" branches from these main objectives which are derived from the Quran and the tradition of the prophet (pbuh) <3,4>:

1- Building the Muslim individual: brother or sister with a strong body, high manners, cultured thought, ability to earn, strong faith, correct worship, conscious of time, of benefit to others, organized, and self-struggling character <3>.
2- Building the Muslim family: choosing a good wife (husband), educating children Islamicaly, and inviting other families.
3- Building the Muslim society (thru building individuals and families) and addressing the problems of the society realistically.
4- Building the Muslim state.
5- Building the Khilafa (basically a shape of unity between the Islamic states).
6- Mastering the world with Islam.


Establishing the Islamic government:

Al-Ikhwan believe that ruling a government should be the step which follows preparing (most of) the society for accepting the Islamic laws. Otherwise, ruling a totally corrupt society thru a militant government-overthrow is a great risk <5>. Preparing the society is achieved thru plans for: spreading the Islamic culture, the possible media means, mosques, and da'wa work in public organizations such as syndicates, parliaments, student unions, ... <6>. Parallel to that, distinct muslims should be trained to administer political, economical, social, and student organizations efficiently (and Islamically), as another preparation step. Moreover, the Ikhwan don't demand the rule for themselves; they welcome any leader who wants to establish a TRUE Islamic government to have all the Ikhwanic support and help.


Theme

Allah is our objective.
The messenger is our leader.
Quran is our law.
Jihad is our way.
Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope

http://www.ummah.net/ikhwan/

[Malikshah]

161. There is more to MB than this offshoot.

Go read a frikkin history book and read up on Cindy Sheehan and those she's associating herself with.

Then stop spreading the hate.

[Phx_Dem]

165. From the official MB website

THE PRINCIPLES OF THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD

The call of the Muslim Brotherhood was based on two key pillars:

1-The introduction of the Islamic Shari`ah as the basis controlling the affairs of state and society.

2-Work to achieve unification among the Islamic countries and states, mainly among the Arab states, and liberating them from foreign imperialism.


http://www.muslimbrotherhood.co.uk/Home.asp?zPage=Systems&System=PressR&Press=Show&Lang=E&ID=4584

[barb162]

142. Oh, go peddle your BS somewhere else or prove it here

Monolithic has nothing to do with anything.

"The Brotherhood is widely believed to have had a `secret apparatus` responsible for terrorist attacks in Egypt including the assassination of Egypt's prime minister in 1948. <34>
The Brotherhood currently advocates suicide bombing attacks on civilians to fight Zionism, and its Palestinian wing Hamas<35> targets both civilians and the military in Israel.
Newsweek journalists Mark Hosenball and Michael Isikoff report connections between al-Qaeda and Brotherhood figures Mamoun Darkazanli and Youssef Nada.<36>
A similar article in the Financial Times reported financial links between 74-year-old Swiss Muslim convert, businessman and neo-Nazi Ahmed Huber, and MB members, notably Youssef Nada, Ali Himmat and who founded the Al Taqwa Bank. According to the U.S. government, Al Taqwa "has long acted as financial advisers to al-Qaeda." Huber himself is noted in Europe for his links with alleged neo-Nazi and other far right elements.<37><38> He is reported to have "confirmed" having "had contact with associates of Osama bin Laden at an Islamic conference in Beirut," whom he called `very discreet, well-educated, very intelligent people.` <37>
Abdul Rahman al-Amoudi, an "expert in the art of deception" was an influential lobbyist and founder and head of the Brotherhood-linked American Muslim Council before being convicted and sentenced to 23 years in prison for conspiracy to murder Saudi Prince Abdullah at the behest of Libyan leader Muammar al-Gaddafi"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood#Links_to_violence

[Malikshah]

160. Great. Wikipedia.

Go peddle your ill-informed hate elsewhere.

The Muslim Brotherhood, established in 1928, was not what it is today. Offshoots have organized into terrorist entities.

Cindy Sheehan would not associate herself with those.

But folks like to smear all in their ravenous desire to spread disinformation.

[barb162]

171. Where's your links proving MB is a charity -ONLY group?

A peaceful political group? What a joke.

YOURS: "Offshoots have organized into terrorist entities."

No kidding. How many peaceful charities, oh, let's say, the Red Cross, which have been
around a long time, have terrorist offshoots? MB maybe hasn't been very peaceful for a long time.

Go peddle your propaganda to someone else.

[still_one]

53. I couldn't agree with you more. What is sad is she used to be the symbol for us getting out of Iraq

Not only does she hurt that cause with her actions, she actually causes a distraction from it

[barb162]

143. I think she has become a really sad woman who is just being used

by some really unsavory types.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

137. Boy, all the knee-jerk reactions here. Look below the surface and consider the big picture

The Egyptian government, in spite of being "a friend of the West," is not all that great in the social services department. The Muslim Brotherhood wins adherents by meeting the needs of the poor and vulnerable through food distribution, medical clinics, and schools. Yes, they're theocrats, but you can now see why they're a growing force.

I'm not sure why Cindy has picked this particular issue, but it's no different than the ACLU protecting the rights of neo-Nazis to march. If you don't believe that civil liberties apply to people you don't like, then you really don't believe in civil liberties. The issue is not whether the Muslim Brotherhood are such great guys (they're a mixed bag), but whether civilians should be tried in a military court.

[barb162]

141. You're missing the point. What is she doing in Egypt?

And it is quite different that the ACLU example. She's trotting off thousands of miles away to support MB. There's plenty, thousands, of groups in the US who meet the many needs of the poor and don't have militant offshoots. Why do you suppose she's not "helping" them out? Do you wonder who paid for this trip?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

157. I don't know--maybe she has an Egyptian friend who has a relative involved or something

If you're not going to vote for her anyway, why get riled up about it?

[fascisthunter]

68. Does it Have to Be, dwickham.

Should we hate them as much as you do? Is that what this is all about?

Explain what is so bad about what Cindy is doing.

[davidinalameda]

104. think of it this way

they stand for everything that the vast majority of posters on this board oppose

I don't think that anyone would stand up and cheer if Cindy was in Germany supporting the rights of Nazis

[polticalpout]

17. ummm, they support suicide bombings against Israel

pick and choose your battles is my advice.

[EFerrari]

18. Their political positions justify a denial of justice?

That's a strange argument.

I don't agree with these people. But even people I condemn deserve justice according to international law. That's why we call it the law.

[polticalpout]

19. I question why she is choosing this battle

With all the people who are in need of justice and attention she chooses to protest for a group who wants to install Shariah? Fighting in the name of international law for those who want to set up a system that breaks international law...great way to spend your time and resources. It's her right but I understand why people would call her bat shit crazy for doing it.

[EFerrari]

37. People often insult what they cannot understand. That's unsurprising. n/t

[northzax]

26. does that include the shareholders of ExxonMobil?

are you now supporting their right to arbitration on compensation?

or do you limit this to groups that believe women are second class people? or were you attracted by the holocaust denials? maybe the stated belief that non-muslims should have to pay the jizya, which no one has imposed since the Ottoman Empire? or was it the recent success of the Brotherhood's sister organization in Palestine, you know, Hamas? (read their charters, Hamas was founded BY the Brotherhood and remains an affiliate)

seems like an odd place to make a stand, don't you think?

[EFerrari]

38. Did you read my post? It doesn't sound like it!

:)

[Peace Patriot]

136. Ah, Northzax, you need some old-fashioned CIA training to be able to write

better propaganda for Exxon Mobile and the war profiteers! This won't do. Exxon Mobile shareholders = prisoners in very rough prisons, indeed, who may or may not get military tribunals to decide their fates.

But what has Exxon Mobile to do with human rights in Egypt? This must be puzzling to some readers of this thread. Advice to them: find any current thread about Chavez and Venezuela, and see Northzax defending Exxon Mobile's "property rights" against the interests of the vast poor majority of Venezuelan, whose democratically elected government and president offered Exxon Mobile a 40% share of the oil profits from Venezuelan oil, a deal which Exxon Mobile snootily turned down and went running into first world courts to freeze $12 billion of the assets of the Venezuelan poor--to kneecap Venezuela into giving more profits to Exxon Mobile--which just reported the highest profits of any U.S. corporation, ever. The Venezuelan deal was fine for France's Total, and Conoco is in talks about it. Not Exxon Mobile. They have another plan. Read about it here:

"The Smart Way to Beat Tyrants Like Chávez," by Donald Rumsfeld, 12/1/07
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/30/AR2007113001800.html

Economic warfare against Venezuela, destabilization of the country, to be followed by "swift" U.S. action in support of "friends and allies" in South America (i.e., fascist thugs planning coups).

Northzax wants us to believe that Exxon Mobile is just like the corner "mom and pop" grocery store, and wants to invest Exxon Mobile--a gigantic multinational with loyalty to no one--with human rights and personhood. But Exxon Mobile is nowhere mentioned in the Constitution. Only people are mentioned. And only people have rights. Exxon Mobile has no rights--no right to exist, no right to profit, no right to own property and amass fantastic wealth and power in perpetuity. They are a mere consortium--which must be chartered by a sovereign people to do business, and must be licensed, and must follow whatever rules the sovereign people require of the officers of the corporate entity. They are, in other words, nothing--Exxon Mobile has no sovereignty. It is a mere investment convenience for people with cash at hand.

Northzax is here equating the human rights of ACTUAL PEOPLE with this nothing entity, Exxon Mobile and its mythical "right" to the oil that belongs to the people of Venezuela. And for the same reason, I think--in support of Exxon Mobile's mythical "right" to the oil in Iraq, and Iran, which is closely related to what is happening in Egypt.

I don't care what the Muslim Brotherhood believes or advocates. The people at risk are HUMAN BEINGS, in prison with vague or no charges against them, facing military tribunals (kangaroo courts--as in Guantanamo). It does no good to smear over the issue by saying they are undesirables--they have beliefs we don't agree with, or to associate INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE with the views or actions of an organized group of people--guilt by association! We had quite enough of that, thank you, during the red-baiting, anti-communist Joe McCarthy era. You DON'T HOLD SOMEONE IN PRISON FOR THE GROUPS THEY BELONG TO. Otherwise you have witch-hunts, and that's what's going on in Egypt. You must charge individual prisoners with a CRIME, and prove they committed the CRIME. Belonging to a group is not a crime!

And who is to say that the Muslim Brotherhood's ideas are not better for Egypt than George Bush's and Donald Rumsfeld's? That's up to the Egyptian people to decide. Some Islamic peoples are seeking the communal power of Islam as a bootstrap, after the slashing and burning of Middle Eastern societies--and the deliberate destruction of their democracies by western powers (as in Iran, for instance)--for a couple of centuries now. They need unity. They need LITERACY. They need informal community banks and micro-loans. They need plumbing and electricity. They need family and community strength--because of what we have done to them. We are responsible for the rise of Islam as a unifying force. We drove the Iranians into the arms of the mullahs, by destroying their democracy. We support dictators! --because we don't give a crap for these people, we just want their oil!

And the Bush Junta has probably blown any chance we had to liberalize Islamic society. "Muslim brotherhoods" of various kinds, in various countries, are grass roots movements, from the people up. They are far more representative than Exxon Mobile, or the Bush Junta. We may have learned, from our own history, the extreme peril of the state establishment of religion, but we can't share that lesson with them--they are deaf to us--because of the cruelty and mass murder and greed of the few in our own society.

I think it's quite visionary of Cindy Sheehan to see past all the bullshit of our society, and to reach out to the WOMEN of Egyptian society who are being harmed by repression, torture and jailings of their fathers, sons and husbands. These women are trapped. They have few rights without the protection of male family members. That is not their fault. That is a social condition that the U.S. has fostered ! Look at Saudi Arabia, the Bush Junta's favorite Arab country! Making common cause with oppressed women, and abused prisoners, is a good thing. It's what America should stand for in the world. And I have no idea why Cindy Sheehan took up this particular cause. Perhaps it's personal--a personal contact. Or because she was able to get into Egypt. But it is consistent with her position on human rights--which should be our country's position--in many other activities, including protests of Guantanamo Bay. And who are we to question it? We, who do nothing. We, who let Bushites torture prisoners, with complete impunity. We, who descry Sharia Law, and have no control over own government, and who let them 'count' all our votes with 'TRADE SECRET' code, owned and controlled by rightwing corporations. We have a lot of nerve criticizing Cindy Sheehan for supporting international law, the Constitution, the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and the Geneva Conventions--when we can't get our own laws enforced here.

And guess why that is? Because Northzax's buds at Exxon Mobile--this monstrous, out-of-control corporation--are running our government!

[fascisthunter]

29. Obviously, Some Here Want you and I to Hate them as Well

and those that would dare to speak with them. Yeah, hating groups instead of speaking with them, or at least trying is better....:crazy:

[EFerrari]

39. Cindy scares the hell out of people.

And she handles it very well. She's about the most grounded person I've ever met.

[fascisthunter]

63. She Will Go Down in History as a Very Influential Peace Activist

just as others have before her. I'm happy to support her, for she seems to represent me more than my own government.

[bean fidhleir]

42. "even people I condemn deserve justice"

Right on.

I can't find the quote, but it goes something like "when you deny justice to those you dislike, you create a precedent that will reach even you".

The "free speech zones" that we hate were created to deny the anti-Choice protestors their right to scream at women visiting abortion clinics. So many militantly short-sighted women were giving one another high-fives over that ruling. They couldn't get it through their jubilant heads that rights are only rights if everyone has them. Otherwise, they're privilege.


Edit: Found the quote. I should have remembered it was Tom Paine: "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."

[Behind the Aegis]

20. That is probably a plus for some.

While they should be allowed due process according to international law, there are certainly more pressing issues. The real question should be why this "cause?"

[barb162]

36. Maybe she thinks she's running for a congressional district in Egypt?

:sarcasm:

[PittPoliSci]

21. the muslim brotherhood are terrorist thugs.

they were responsible for the death of nasser.

they are disgusting thugs who were trained by the CIA to disrupt secular nationalist movements in the middle east in favor of islamist movements.

they are not the kind of people i would want running egypt. sheehan has completely lost all credibility with this move.

[Tom Joad]

177. The US supports terrorist thugs that drop a million cluster bombs on

a civilian population.
and it is supporting an unfair trial in Egypt. do you think it serves US interests to support unfair trials in Egypt... or at Gitmo?

[fascisthunter]

27. Because the People Jumpin on Her

dislike her principles. Humanitarian activists usually get this type of treatment by right wingers.... funny isn't it?

[barb162]

146. Care to explain why she jumped on DU and refuted the Democratic Party?

Funny isn't it?

[Tom Joad]

178. i think because we are dealing with rightwingers here, who support

military trials, unjust imprisonment, torture and the like.
Let's call it like it is.

[Marrah_G]

134. Wow defending the Muslim Brotherhood............

:puke:

/ignore

[boricua79]

22. This doesn't help you, Cindy

Protesting against the United States war is all fine and dandy. Joining forces with the Muslim Brotherhood doesn't make any sense. We're talking about a group who regularly enforces values and lifestyles on women that are violations to their human rights.

This is bordering very closely on that "Hanoi Jane" line. Once you cross it, you'll never regain the trust of many Americans.

What's next...a rally with Hamas or Hezbollah?

[badgervan]

23. Hey....

... I was going to use the "Hanoi Jane" reference. This sure gives the Rovians a ripe "democrats coddle terrorists" McCain ad for the upcoming race. One should use the head as well as the heart in picking and choosing battles and tactics. Like Code Pink, Sheehan sometimes ends up giving the rethugs free ammo to use against Dems as a group. I wish she would pick her targets and methods with more consideration of the possible results of her actions.

[EFerrari]

40. Cindy Sheehan is not a Democrat. n/t

[badgervan]

92. You Are Right

I forgot that she quit the dem party. That won't, however, stop the repubs from using her actions against dems.... she is still seen as one by most.

[EFerrari]

97. That's right. They use guilty by association even where there is none.

It's too bad to see us doing the same. :shrug:

[eilen]

24. She's pretty much always been batshit crazy

I think her grief from losing her son made her pretty angry and the subsequent nonstop publicity of her antiwar activities pushed her over the edge. She had made herself an international civil protester or something. Not that some of the stuff she does isn't right or anything... It's just that she has this streak of nuttiness that makes you wonder if she is either a batshit fool berating the powers that be to repent or something else entirely. One thing she is isn't is diplomatic, she isn't any Jimmy Carter. I find her approach to be very combative and confrontational, not in the spirit of non-violence, although I have never seen or heard of her being physically violent or advocating violence except for some fantasies she admitted to in her book in response to losing her son in the war.

May 27, 2008 she "officially" parted from the Democratic Party. Then she announced her retirement.

“ I am going to take whatever I have left and go home. I am going to go home and be a mother to my surviving children and try to regain some of what I have lost. I will try to maintain and nurture some very positive relationships that I have found in the journey that I was forced into when Casey died and try to repair some of the ones that have fallen apart since I began this single-minded crusade to try and change a paradigm that is now, I am afraid, carved in immovable, unbendable and rigidly mendacious marble.
Camp Casey has served its purpose. It’s for sale. Anyone want to buy five beautiful acres in Crawford, Texas? I will consider any reasonable offer. I hear George Bush will be moving out soon, too... which makes the property even more valuable.
This is my resignation letter as the "face" of the American anti-war movement. This is not my "Checkers" moment, because I will never give up trying to help people in the world who are harmed by the empire of the good old US of A, but I am finished working in, or outside of this system. This system forcefully resists being helped and eats up the people who try to help it. I am getting out before it totally consumes me or anymore people that I love and the rest of my resources.
Good-bye America ... you are not the country that I love and I finally realized no matter how much I sacrifice, I can’t make you be that country unless you want it." May 28, 2007, Daily Kos

Not two months later she came out of retirement announcing she was running against Nancy Pelosi. I'm thinking her kids must live with their father. Maybe she missed the spotlight. She did say "goodbye America"?

Maybe "hello Egypt"?

[EFerrari]

41. Calling someone you disagree with "crazy" is not an argument. n/t

[eilen]

108. I'm not making an argument, I'm just stating an observation

I didn't say I disagreed with her goal of ending war. I want everyone to go to heaven but it doesn't mean I stand on street corners admonishing the general public to find Jesus and calling people "the devil" when they don't.

[EFerrari]

121. And now you're comparing her to a religious fanatic?

Okay.

[eilen]

167. Well, she is pretty harsh on anyone not ideologically pure.

That's pretty fanatical. It's her way or the highway.

[EFerrari]

168. Really? Reread this thread and get back to me about harsh. n/t

[LanternWaste]

149. I'd say "passionate" rather than 'crazy'

I'd say "passionate" rather than 'crazy' or 'nutty'. And I'd wager it's more her attempt to help people (even unpopular people) than it is craving the spotlight.

Although I understand we all project many knee-jerk assumptions onto her, our conclusions are more often wrong than not.

Many times, the movers and the shakers of the peace movements are vilified prior to eventual historical vindication.

[BobbyVan]

25. It's like supporting the Klan in Skokie

Yes, there is a principle at stake. But why waste your energies on a terror-supporting, holocaust-denying, woman-oppressing group?

[fascisthunter]

30. Actually Your Hatred of Her is Interesting

Instead we should just bomb the people you don't like.... talk about nuts.

[BobbyVan]

43. Wow, so I want to BOMB them now???

Talk about inflammatory rhetoric. I criticize her for taking a misguided stand, and you interpret that as my wanting to bomb people?

You embarrass yourself and the rest of us.

[fascisthunter]

66. Why Not... You Interpret Her Actions in the Same Manner

so interpret your words like wise. You embarrass yourself in hoping we take a side you prefer...

Cindy's actions are principled without your type of prejudice blinding her. That's the principle you lack yourself, so what is at stake? Your hatred of "Islamists" not being shared with others here at DU? Humans should be treated as humans whether you hate them or not.

Maybe we should treat those "Islamists" the way you want us to and just bomb them all since they are "terror-supporting, holocaust-denying, woman-oppressing group?"?

What's wrong? Don't like people making unfair conclusions about what you do or say? Gee.... why is that?

"It's like supporting the Klan in Skokie
Yes, there is a principle at stake. But why waste your energies on a terror-supporting, holocaust-denying, woman-oppressing group?"

Nice weasle words there... Yeah... she supports "them". Talk about inflammatory, divisive and intellectually dishonest. She never made a case for supporting any of those actions, but you insinuate that she does... don't BS with me. I hope you are embarrassed, but something tells me your hatred of this group would never allow you to feel that way. Bush has much in common with you there.

[BobbyVan]

69. Read the other comments - plenty of others agree with me on this one.

The Muslim Brotherhood is an organization that opposes women's rights and wants to fight religious wars. Who does that remind you of?

You guessed it, the Republicans.

She's clearly lost it, and I'm not wasting any more time with her (or you) on this thread.

[fascisthunter]

71. I Know WHo Those Other Posters are... I'm Not Impressed

"Look.... others agree with me... seee"


Weak argument.

[BobbyVan]

73. Interesting name, "Fascisthunter"

Did you know that the Muslim Brotherhood has deep fascist roots? They were allied with Hitler and had a lot in common (like Jew hatred).

You can read about it here:

http://dkosopedia.com/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood

I guess you aren't really serious about hunting fascists huh?

[fascisthunter]

74. yeah... can't win the argument so let's talk aboout names

Jesus... get lost already and take your Islamophobia with ya.

[BobbyVan]

76. No problem with Islam. Just anti-semites and misogynists.

Whether they're Christians or Muslims is irrelevant to me.

[fascisthunter]

95. "Cindy Sheehan in Egypt for Islamists".... surrrrre

whatever you say

[BobbyVan]

109. Uh, that was the AP headline. I took it down word for word.

[LanternWaste]

150. Therefore any nation, culture or organization

Therefore any nation, culture or organization that allied itself against the imperialism of the west during the second world war has 'fascist roots'?

[leftynyc]

115. That's quite the strawman (n/t)

[khaos]

79. maybe she has a better understanding of them than you do

"terror-supporting, holocaust-denying, woman-oppressing"

actually, it's obvious that she does..

[BobbyVan]

80. Maybe you should read more about the Muslim Brotherhood

FACT: They support suicide bombings against civilians.
FACT: They deny the historical veracity of the Holocaust.
FACT: They support female genital circumcision (mutilation).

This has nothing to do with Islamophobia. If they were a Christian or Jewish group I'd feel the same way.

Here's the question. Why is she squandering her moral authority to support a group that does not deserve her?

[khaos]

84. Those aren't facts.. let me know what you are reading so I can avoid it. n/t

[pegleg]

85. They are most certainly influenced by Wahabism and they do have some ties to al Qaeda.

Anyone who thinks this is an ideal group to be allied with is wacked

[khaos]

132. "some ties to al Qaeda" what.. one of OBLs #2 is a cousin?

besides.. AQ doesn't even exist outside of western TV land

[LanternWaste]

151. Specifics, please?

Specifics, please? Peer reviewed links? Publications from university presses?

[pegleg]

162. Here's for starters

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Qutb

[LanternWaste]

179. I can assume the answer is that all your information came from the internets?

So your knowledge of this comes from Wiki? It's great site-- Steve Carrell once said during an episode of The Office', "Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information."

I was asking if you yourself had peer reviewed links or used books from University Presses in your quest for this absolute truth of yours...

I can assume the answer is that all your information came from the internets?

[pegleg]

184. PBS did a documentary about it not too long ago.

All of it is pretty common knowledge

[EFerrari]

87. This question has been answered on this thread repeatedly.

I think you posted this story so you could pull out this guilt by association bullsh!t because you obviously have no interest in the story itself.

Are you aware that our prisoners at Gitmo have lawyers? That they are tracked by the Red Cross and HRW and Amnesty Internat'l?

Do you think that's wrong, too? Some of those people, after all, are jihadis with similar views.

I think I side with Cindy and HRW and the Red Cross and Amnesty and with international law and not with you.

[bean fidhleir]

28. An injury to one is an injury to all

Until we understand that, we'll never change anything.

[fascisthunter]

31. .

[tuckessee]

44. Yo! Cindy! Check out your own country.

Jails are crammed with casual drug users. Still killing Iraqis based on lies. Torture made legal. Economy in shambles.

Don't you have enough to do here in the States?

[EFerrari]

46. Next thing, someone is going to tell her to get back in the kitchen. n/t

[tuckessee]

50. You're the first one to bring up her sex.

And it was in the lamest attempt at sex-baiting I've seen recently.

Certainly your troll skills are more polished than that?

[EFerrari]

52. Nope. The attitude is right there and all over this thread.

"Sex bating", my granny. How dare Cindy Sheehan travel in service of human rights? Why doesn't she stay "home" and tend to her own? Who does she think she is? She must be krazy!

Get back, Cindy!





lol

[LanternWaste]

153. Neither repression nor salvation

Neither repression nor salvation from it are dependent on imaginary red and blue lines on a map.

[donsu]

48. thank you Cindy for working for women where ever they are in the world

nt

[INDIA]

55. Yes, the Muslim Brotherhood is very supportive of women's rights. n/t

[boricua79]

123. exactly

It's like helping the Ku Klux Klan work for black rights.

Come on now people. The Muslim Brotherhood is egypt's most extremist Islamic group. No extreme Islam group is good for women.

[leftynyc]

117. Working for women?????

The Muslim Brotherhood??? You need to bone up on a few facts about that organization.

[rinsd]

51. Wow supporting a bunch of theocrats...

[fascisthunter]

70. It's Called Supporting Human Rights Regardless of Who They Are

and you have a problem with that. Another Hillary supporter too.

[leftynyc]

118. Womens rights are human rights

And the Brotherhood has a piss poor record on that.

[Name removed]

124. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BobbyVan]

82. If she wanted to support theocrats she could have done that here!

[onager]

56. I've lived in Egypt for 3 years. Yes, they ARE terrorists.

Has anybody defending these scumbags bothered to read any news from Egypt in the past couple of years? Or even the history of the Muslim Brotherhood? No, Saint Cindy is defending them, so they must be OK guys, right?

In 2006, the Supreme Guide of the Muslim Brotherhood denied that the Holocaust ever happened.

More recently, the MB tried to bring back a great idea from the Seventh Century--a special religious tax on all non-Muslims in Egypt. That one is mostly aimed at the Coptic Christians--about 5 per cent of the population in Egypt.

(Full disclosure: I am an atheist and an American.)

More to the point, I live in Alexandria, which has been wracked by two recent major religious riots, thanks to the saintly MB. To keep this from turning into a book, I will only talk about 1 riot.

In November 2005, during the Parliamentary elections, riots blew up around St. Girgis (George's) Coptic Church, in the Moharrem Bey district of Alexandria.

The MB claimed that the church had hosted a play in 2003--TWO YEARS EARLIER--that was "anti-Islamic." The plot allegedly dealt with a Copt being converted to Islam and becoming a suicide bomber.

DVD's of the play were distributed to mosques in Alexandria just in time to be a hot topic for the Friday afternoon mosque services (the biggest of the week).

And sure enough, on Friday afternoon, Muslims in the area poured into the streets and started attacking their Xian neighbors, with whom they generally live peaceably.

(Alexandria is a special problem for Islamic fundamentalists. It has a long historical reputation as the most liberal and cosmopolitan city in Egypt, and the fundies HATE that. Just like America's Xian fundies hate anything lib'rul or cosmopolitan.)

[EFerrari]

57. There is a difference between defending these people

and defending due process, human rights and international law.

Even Charlie Manson had a defense attorney.

Your attack on Cindy Sheehan misses the point entirely.

[BobbyVan]

58. But Cindy's not a defense attorney

And you miss the point entirely.

Cindy is an important figure on the left, and her actions will only serve to marginalize her (and her erstwhile supporters) even more. We need her to be an effective advocate for our causes, but instead, she's allowing people to dismiss us all as "soft on terror".

[EFerrari]

59. No, Cindy is not a defense attorney. She is simply a decent person

and an activist.

And, she is also not a Democrat so you won't be tarred with her principled stance or with her work for human rights. Isn't that a huge relief for you?

I'm sorry if Cindy hasn't been available to you for exploitation. That's what happens when people have their own sense of autonomy and integrity.

No, I'm not missing a thing, thanks!

[BobbyVan]

62. Cozying up to woman-oppressing holocaust deniers isn't what I'd call decent n/t

[EFerrari]

86. It sounds like you yourself don't understand the story you posted.

Do you seriously believe that Cindy Sheehan would advocate for any kind of violence?

[BobbyVan]

110. Would you be upset if she marched with the Klan? Or Operation Rescue?

I'll bet if she started marching with Pro-Life groups who wanted First Amendment protections to scream at women exercising their right to choose, you'd raise an eyebrow.

[EFerrari]

120. I can't tell you how silly it is for you to accuse Sheehan

of bigotry or anti-feminism.

Her sin is to advocate justice for a group you dislike. Now you know how freepers feel about the ACLU.

[BobbyVan]

122. We're never going to agree on this, so why keep going back and forth?

Personally, I'd pick a more worthy cause, like Aung San Suu Kyi in Burma.

Life is short, and there are tons of oppressed people in the world. Why focus on an oppressed organization that, if it came to power, would force women into burkhas and spout a hateful ideology?

[EFerrari]

128. That is your take away question from this thread, isnt it? n/t

[BobbyVan]

130. It's a good one. The Muslim Brotherhood doesn't deserve Cindy Sheehan.

[EFerrari]

131. May none of us be relegated to what we deserve. n/t

[barb162]

172. Which makes it all the stranger she is kissing up to a group

that doesn't exactly honor the full and equal rights of women.

[EFerrari]

180. What is it about international human rights that is unclear to you? n/t

[GeniusLib]

60. The women of Egypt thank you Cindy

Your hard work and dedication might yet bring them the joys of Sharia law they have been missing

[EFerrari]

61. Or, due process in a civil court as per international law

instead of the kind of justice the illegally held prisoners at Gitmo get. Or, that they don't get.

Boy, I love the smears on this thread. Junior would be proud.

[PittPoliSci]

107. bingo.

i'm glad someone get it.

[Name removed]

125. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tom Joad]

175. we hear from another supporter of military rule. thanks for the input

[fascisthunter]

72. Thank You Cindy for Penetrating through the Islamophobia

[PittPoliSci]

106. completely insane.

i'm not afraid of islam.

i'm afraid of islamism.

they are the enemy of secular nationalist democracies. why do you feel the need to apologize for them?

[Name removed]

126. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BobbyVan]

127. Good for you for saying that

We need to be a little more discriminating about who we support around the world.

The Muslim Brotherhood is an illiberal organization that would never support womens rights or religious freedom. And they're far from peaceful.

It's kind of like the CIA supporting the Afghan "freedom fighters" during the Cold War. We know how that turned out don't we!

[khaos]

78. good for her

[pegleg]

81. Here is the creed of the Muslim Brotherhood:

“ Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope."
If I am not mistaken there are strong ties to al Qeida. Sayd Qtab (spelling) was the uncle of Al Zuari (spelling)- Osama's right hand man, if I recall. The lady is being used by them.

[EFerrari]

88. What does the creed have to do with seeking due process?

We gave the Unibomber due process. Was that also wrong?

[pegleg]

112. Due process in Sharia law is a whole different animal than

our constitutional due process. That is what the Muslim brotherhood is about. We do not set suspected murders loose if they are prone to kill again.

[EFerrari]

119. We are talking about international law, not Sharia.

And no one talking about setting them loose but about getting their trail in the right venue.

I take it you are in favor of the way the US has treated the prisoners being held at Gitmo?

[pegleg]

158. No, what I am saying is is that the Muslim Brotherhood

as a stated goal, wants to impose sharia law. My feeling is that we need to stay the hell out of Egypt's internal affairs. That's part of the problem we're having today.

[EFerrari]

164. And you miss the point that any constituency in any nation

can use all the support they can get to access international law as a means to justice for minorities.

And, no, what you where saying was that this group doesn't deserve access to justice because they promote Sharia.

If you keep moving the goal posts, you wind up sore.

[pegleg]

166. Disagree entirely.

[EFerrari]

169. Do you also believe our detainees at Gitmo has no right

to a real trial but only to a military kangaroo court? Because that is the question. It has nothing to do with Sharia at all.

[pegleg]

185. Gitmo involved the wrongs committed by our own govermment.

I think what's happening in Egypt is crucial to their own internal affairs.

[Marrah_G]

135. Gotta say I just don't get you on this one.....

These guys are just like the Taliban. If let out and if they gain control and power it would be committing hundreds of thousands of women to slavery, torture and abuse.

[goodgd_yall]

181. Of all the people in the world who are not getting due process

why is she coming to the support of the Islamic Brotherhood, is what I'm wondering?

[Xithras]

90. Yep. I don't get the support here.

They support Islamic Democracy, but Islamic Democracy is what you see in Iran. The people can vote for their leaders, but the Quran is the constitution, no laws can be passed that conflict with it, and religious leaders have precedence over elected ones. It would be like replacing the Supreme Court with Jerry Falwell clones.

They like their women covered, their gays dead, and their Jews subservient. They also advocate closer integration througout the middle east to break down national barriers and create a modern Caliphate. It's essentially a more religious version of Pan-Arabism.

An Islamic Democracy might be preferable to an Islamic Dictatorship (Saudi Arabia, Taliban ruled Afghanistan), but it's light years away from anything we'd call free. Sheehan is making herself look foolish by supporting these people.

[EFerrari]

93. Can you point to the text where she says she supports their politics?

I must have missed that part.

[fascisthunter]

94. These Posters are Intentionally Conflating Support for Human Rights and Politics

pretty transparent aren't they?

[EFerrari]

96. Or, they are taking this obvious hit piece and running with it.

Either way, it's disappointing.

[fascisthunter]

98. What Cindy is Doing is She is Breaking Through a Wall

A wall many do not want penetrated. To show humanitarian support unconditionally does not suit well with those who want us to look upon "Islamists" as enemies.

[EFerrari]

100. I've learned that there are a lot of people who really don't get altruism.

They find it suspect. They don't seem to be purposefully not getting it, they just really don't.

Imho, that is in part what is happening here. Walking through xenophobic walls must seem like some sort of insulting magic trick. lol

It really is all right. She knows exactly what she's doing. :)

[fascisthunter]

102. She's an Amazing Human Being

And you are very kind and thoughtful. I on the other hand.... lol.

Peace

[EFerrari]

103. I have to disagree about that other hand.

:toast:

[Tektonik]

105. She's right, but

until she ever becomes an elected federal official, I'd rather see her take up American causes.

[Orsino]

111. Cindy has finally learned that not enough Americans will not stand up for peace...

...so she's exerting efforts elsewhere. Makes sense to me.

[INDIA]

114. Yes. The Muslim Brotherhood only wants peace. Seriesly.

People tear apart dictators like Musharraf and Mubarak, but guess what, that's the best the Middle East can do right now. The guys they are oppressing are a LOT worse, for their own countries and the entire world.

[Phx_Dem]

129. If Sheehan wants to help in the ME

Maybe she could help this poor Saudi woman:

Saudis to execute a woman for witchcraft

BEIRUT, Lebanon - A leading human rights group appealed to Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah on Thursday to stop the execution of a woman accused of witchcraft and performing supernatural acts.

The New York-based Human Rights Watch said in a statement that the kingdom's religious police who arrested and interrogated Fawza Falih, and the judges who tried her in the northern town of Quraiyat never gave her the opportunity to prove her innocence in the face of "absurd charges that have no basis in law."

Falih's case underscores shortcomings in Saudi Arabia's Islamic legal system in which rules of evidence are shaky, lawyers are not always present and sentences often depend on the whim of judges.

The most frequent victims are women, who already suffer severe restrictions on daily life in Saudi Arabia: They cannot drive, appear before a judge without a male representative, or travel abroad without a male guardian's permission.

Witchcraft is considered an offense against Islam in the conservative kingdom.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080214/ap_on_re_mi_ea/saudi_human_rights

[goodgd_yall]

182. This is what I don't understand

There are many cases of due process not being adhered to; why is she coming out to support the Islamic Brotherhood. I think there is something else going on than merely an altruistic intention.

[Marrah_G]

133. Cindy has completely jumped the shark here.

:puke:

[BobbyVan]

138. Casey would be appalled.

[EFerrari]

139. Casey might be appalled that his mother has to deal with

unthinking smears such as yours. But, he'd likely understand that it comes with the territory.

[Phx_Dem]

159. Check out what this Egyptian blogger has to say

"Peace Mom" is here supporting the rights of the Muslim Brotherhood members on trial. Who wants to come with me and throw eggs at her? Ramsey Clark is also here. We can egg him too. It's double the fun this way. Any takers? E-mail me!

Oh, and here is her Open Letter to our First Lady , Suzy Mubarak. Isn't it nice how she pimps her dead army son in the first paragraph of it? I think it's heartwarming. Don't you?

Also, gotta love the ending paragraph;

Thank you for your consideration in this important
matter, inshallah we will work together for a peaceful
and just resolution for the betterment of humanity.

So, supporting the MB is now for the betterment of humanity? And did you notice the Inshallah? How very touching and culturally sensitive..

Oh, and the signature

Sincerely,
Cindy Sheehan

A US Congress Candidate

Founder & Chairperson of the Gold Star Families for Peace

Director of Camp Casey Peace Institute

Otherwise known as unemployed political whore. And can you put "US congress candidate" as a job description? Doesn't it only count if you win?

Like we needed this shit!

http://www.sandmonkey.org/

Now that is OTT.

[EFerrari]

163. 'Way to spread hate and misinformation.

Really, how transparent can you people get.

[DaDooRonRon]

140. Yea, like you'd know n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

170. For all you knee-jerk types, here's an explanation of the appeal of radical Islam in Egypt

CAIRO — The concrete steps leading from Ahmed Muhammad Sayyid’s first-floor apartment sag in the middle, worn down over time, like Mr. Sayyid himself. Once, Mr. Sayyid had a decent job and a chance to marry. But his fiancée’s family canceled the engagement because after two years, he could not raise enough money to buy an apartment and furniture.

Mr. Sayyid spun into depression and lost nearly 40 pounds. For months, he sat at home and focused on one thing: reading the Koran. Now, at 28, with a diploma in tourism, he is living with his mother and working as a driver for less than $100 a month. With each of life’s disappointments and indignities, Mr. Sayyid has drawn religion closer.

Here in Egypt and across the Middle East, many young people are being forced to put off marriage, the gateway to independence, sexual activity and societal respect. Stymied by the government’s failure to provide adequate schooling and thwarted by an economy without jobs to match their abilities or aspirations, they are stuck in limbo between youth and adulthood.

“I can’t get a job, I have no money, I can’t get married, what can I say?” Mr. Sayyid said one day after becoming so overwhelmed that he refused to go to work, or to go home, and spent the day hiding at a friend’s apartment.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/17/world/middleeast/17youth.html?hp

There are REASONS that people turn to the Muslim Brotherhood. They don't just turn mean all of a sudden.

[goodgd_yall]

183. The article was more about a society turning religiously conservative

and lack of opportunity than it was about people wanting the government to be less secular. But, I think a lack of a sense of belonging and having a purpose could attract more young males to the "Brotherhood."

[Tom Joad]

174. Seems like Cindy Sheehan is concerned about human rights for all.

now that is a contrast to Pelosi!

[ButterflyBlood]

186. I'm glad I renounced this woman long ago

What a nutjob. At least now she's not giving the anti-war movement a bad name. They better not re-embrace her again after this though.