U.S. won't be able to dodge draft

[4dsc]

Source: TH staff writer

Americans in general haven't been asked to sacrifice much while its soldiers are fighting wars in Iraq and Afghansistan, so a military draft is far from their minds -- and a topic politicians won't touch.

But according to Dubuque attorney and former Marine Corps Colonel Werner Hellmer, for the United States to continue its current defense and security programs, or to expand military operations, a draft will likely have to be instituted.

Hellmer was Thursday's guest speaker at the 2008 Great Decisions lecture series at the Northeast Iowa Community College Town Clock Center for Professional Development.

A former judge advocate general, he addressed the state and future of the U.S. military.

The roles and missions of the military have expanded beyond regular "warfighting," he said, to include counter-terrorism, humanitarian operations, peacekeeping missions and counterinsurgency operations, all of which require specialized manpower and training.



Read more: http://thonline.com/article.cfm?id=190925

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I don't recall seeing this anywhere else in the news.. Interesting for sure..

[PDJane]

1. It will have to be done....

I've just been waiting for the announcement. I expect it around the time of the institution,either overt or covert, of martial law.

[mediaman007]

2. We'll have to see this martial law before the next election right?

I can't see the corporate interests taking a chance on the election results. That is unless McCain, Clinton and Obama are part of the plan.

[jasmine621]

96. This, more than anyting, is why all those young folks are Obama fans.

they believe he will not ask them to serve. It's not really about "change" for them. They want the status quo when it comes to the military. Since Obama says that he was against the war from the beginning, they are banking on him to keep us out of conflicts and certainly to keep us away froma a draft.

[tularetom]

3. And the democratic president will get the blame for it

bush will manage to slime through the rest of his term without facing up to the damage he has inflicted on our military. But in the next few years we won't be able to look the other way anymore. There will have to be some form of conscription to rebuild our forces and the Dem will act on it. You can almost foresee the social upheaval that will follow after which the remnants of the repugnantcan party will scream at the top of their lungs about how they were able to defend our country without a draft but the Dem "war party" could not.

[ohio2007]

21. actually, it takes "an act of congress" ....check out the constitution

its in there somewhere

/sarc

[classykaren]

103. NO the president can declare war

He does usually go to congress but he does not have to as comander in chief

[gerrilea]

106. Wrong!

Constitution does not give the President the power to declare war...that is left to Congress...Re-Read the constitution before it's worhtless...

[NYC Liberal]

113. Congress has the EXCLUSIVE authority to declare war

Article 1, Section 8.

Just because the Constitution has been ignored doesn't mean it isn't there.

[zanne]

125. I don't think the Iraq "war" has ever been officially "war".

The Bush administration knew it would have to get the approval of Congress for that.

[zanne]

122. I seem to recall that was what Bush said. nt

[Lochloosa]

123. Article One Section 8 of the Constitution. The President has no such powers.

Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

READ THIS!
To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

[zanne]

124. That's right. That's what Bush did.

The president can authorize the use of troops overseas without "declaring" war. The invasion of Iraq was such an occasion. The president did not declare war. Instead, he had the congress vote on the IWR, which was not a definitive statement of war.

[noamnety]

47. And I'll be the first one to blame them.

If their solution to our military "problems" is to add more troops, fuck 'em.

That's not the problem we have with our military. It's how we use them. Shut down all the military operations overseas that we don't need to protect our own country (what's that, all of them?) and we won't need a draft. How many countries have bases in as many places as us? There's the problem.

There's no point in pretending we need a draft to protect us from outside invasions. They pretend we need a draft for that, but they'd use it to protect corporate interests - and that is NOT a justification for forced servitude.

[AndyTiedye]

54. No Need for a Draft If We End the War

[coco77]

63. It won't matter because

bush has been putting everything into place before he leaves so that everything he wants to do will have to be done by the Democratic president.

[alfredo]

4. I'd back it if it is a universal public service "draft." Those who choose

the military will get better pay and benefits, but working in non military jobs will not mean substandard pay and benefits. It will be a rite of passage from childhood to adult hood. Two years of community service will pay for your college tuition. Three years in the military will pay for tuition, books, and housing through your master's degree. You will also get all your VA benefits.

[Android3.14]

23. conscripted Civil Service

It may be a bit too Heinlein-esque for some, but it really is the best solution.

[alfredo]

35. If you opt out, you will not receive the benefits. Also there is a lot to say

for having a shared experience with your peers. You will make friends and contacts that will last a lifetime.

[happyslug]

40. The problem is we need Infantrymen, not Clerks.

So what is the Civilian equivalent of a dog face infantryman? Being shot at, pounded by mortars, and being hit by snipers and bombs? Furthermore, unlike the 1950s when all we needed was the troops in countries that wanted US in that country if the Soviets would attack, we need infantrymen to patrol a country whose citizens wants us out. There are NO civilian equivalent jobs, no matter the pay difference or duration difference (Many countries that have Universal Military Service, you serve only two years in the Army, three years in the Navy, or five years in a Civilian Equivalent job).

I have advocated Universal Military Service (UMS) in the past. The reason the draft was dropped in the 1970s was NOT that we no longer needed troops, but the draft exposed the "wrong" sons to the draft (Sons of people who voted). This is the main problem with UMS from the present leadership point of view, UMS also translate to no support for using those troops in a war most Americans do NOT support. In Vietnam, as long as most Americans supported the war, the draft was NOT a problem. People agreed to sent their sons to war IF IT WAS NEEDED (and most Americans feel the same today, IF THE WAR IS NEEDED). As soon as the Majority of Americans started to object to the Vietnam war, abolishment of the draft became more and more popular, not only among the young who were subject to the draft (And their parents), but among Republicans who saw abolishment of the draft a way to keep fighting the war even as more and more Americans came to oppose it.

Thus I do NOT see a draft in the future, for it will be the kiss of death for the war in Iraq. No Democrat will support it unless they can convince the American people it is needed (and such conversion will require someone better than the people running today).

[alfredo]

46. Expand Americorp and include a military option. The money for

education could also mean specialized trade schools. With the military option different jobs carry different pay. The more dangerous the job, better the pay and benefits.

There would still be merit placement based on induction exams. I got offered intelligence because my score was in the top ten in the military. there will always be those who will want infantry. The smarter our foreign policy, the more likely a person will risk signing up for infantry.

Our military problems stem from bush's insanity.

[AndyTiedye]

55. Start Up the Draft and the War Will Go On Forever

Whatever the reason for ending the draft in 1973, they had to end the war within a couple of years (the length of the required term of service) because they could not attract any more cannon fodder.

[alfredo]

56. No, there would be an uproar that would be loud enough, even congress

could hear it.

Universal service would not be mandatory, but it would be attractive for its benefits. Serve your community and you will receive rewards. No service, no reward. Peer pressure to sign up to help in some way will help keep the ranks filled. Some will find they can best serve in the military. Some will be attracted by higher pay and benefits. Some just want to be a soldier.

Public service can be attractive and beneficial to the enrollee and the nation.

[AndyTiedye]

60. The Vietnam War Went on For 10 Years, During 8 of Which, there was a Draft

When they ended the draft, they had to end the war soon afterwards.



Civilian universal service would have a devastating effect on the workers who are doing that work now.

[alfredo]

64. the media started doing their job. That helped end the draft and war.

[AndyTiedye]

67. And Now, the Media is OWNED by the Warmongers

NBC is owned by GE, which makes more money off of war than anything else.
Then there is Murdoch's News Corp.
Bain Capital owns Clear Channel.
It goes on from there.

The media is doing its job, working for the people who OWN it.

[alfredo]

71. True, but the internet has allowed people to bypass them.

[tabasco]

102. That's not correct.

The war ended before the draft.

[Tempest]

135. HUH??!!

The draft was started in 1969. The first draftees were sent to Vietnam in 1970.

The Vietnam war didn't end until 1975.

[coalition_unwilling]

75. Small point of clarification - Nixon had withdrawn almost all U.S.

ground combat forces from Southeast Asia by November 1972 (under his so-called policy of "Vietnamization"). The war in South Vietnam actually ramped up post 1969, at least as far as Vietnamese victims of it were concerned. While ground combat forces were drawn down, the U.S. Air Force and its counterparts in the puppet regime increased massively the bombing of areas inside South Vietnam.

The Vietnam War did not end because the draft ended in 1973, imho. The Vietnam War ended because the forces of Vietnamese nationalism under the leadership of Ho and Giap defeated the imperialist forces of the U.S. and its puppet regime in the south. The U.S. ended its involvement in Vietnam because Watergate crisis seriously weakened Nixon's ability to wage war without increasingly tight congressional oversight.

[BrotherBuzz]

92. In June 1972 Nixon announced no more draftee would be ordered to SE Asia...

effectively eliminated the cannon fodder factory. The draft ended the following year.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

82. No. Give the choice, strictly observed, to serve either NON-militia or militia and,...

,...I'll bet the power-mongers would scream like stuck pigs because the vast majority of American citizens prefer to serve a cause other than war.

Think about it.

[AndyTiedye]

86. Labor Would be Screaming Too, and With Good Reason

Labor in this country already has to compete with undocumented workers and offshore companies, now they would have to compete with sub-minimum-wage conscript labor too.

[coalition_unwilling]

74. Good post. The only note I would add is that when the draft was

dropped in the 1970s, it was replaced by a "poverty draft." Take a look at what Lyndie England described as the reason she joined the military. Only job within 50 miles of her was working for WalMart with no benefits.

The reason there are not more people out in the streets protesting Iraq-nam and assorted other outrages is that the American middle- and upper classes do not have a "dog in this fight." They could really care less, so long as it is the children of poor whites, blacks and Latinos doing the fighting.

Draft the children of the middle- and, perish the notion, upper classes and you'll once again see 1 million people circle the Pentagon, a la 1969.

[surfermaw]

100. Wasn't that the plan from the begining, contractors for Clerks and other office jobs, middle class A

Americans to fight the war, get killed, and wounded, wasn't that Rumsfeld plan from the begining...Oh yes the republicans (Rumsfeld told that very story.

[AndyTiedye]

51. Taking away What Job Security Remains in the USA

If you conscript people for civilian public service jobs, what happens to the people doing that work now?

Would they get laid off or conscripted? Obviously whatever rights they previously had to unionize and to strike would be lost.

How do ideas like this become popular among progressives? I don't get it.

[Scooter24]

85. The system is still unequal...

Where someone, like myself, who comes from a very privileged family would choose the easiest and less burdensome option whereas the person who needs the money will have to commit to a more dangerous and more restrictive military option with longer commitments.

For me, this would be nothing more than a horrible waste of time.

[BadgerKid]

5. Now that the *cons have extracted our money

they may as well extinguish us. Peachy, NOT.

[babsbunny]

6. You think people will stand by and let their Children be drafted for

A FUCKING LIE?

[PDJane]

7. that depends on how much violence

is directed towards the citizenry first.

Violence changes the equation.

[ohio2007]

22. seems there is plenty of violence going on in US schools already

not to mention gang activity in the streets across the US

[PDJane]

39. Let me rephrase that.

It depends on how much state-sponsored violence is directed towards the citizenry.

Violence in schools in no way equates to violence like we've been seeing too much of lately; the violence of the law and the military, directed angainst American citizens...and not all of those visible minorities and the poor.

[coalition_unwilling]

76. Violence is as American as cherry pie (with apologies to H. Rap Brown) -n/t

[crim son]

44. Maybe for the general population it would.

Not for me. My kids will not risk their lives and kill others to appease our bloodthirsty government. Period.

[atreides1]

38. Why Not

Some parents have let their children enlist for a FUCKING LIE, and in return they received either a broken child or a dead one. And some are proud of that fact!!!!!!!

[KansDem]

59. Not this parent!

:grr:

[classykaren]

104. Not this one either is that why they firmed up canadaian border?

[patrick t. cakes]

94. yes they will.....n/t

[Thothmes]

111. They certainly did during the Viet Nam war,

why should it be any different now.

[Deny and Shred]

8. Put the Romney and Bush kids at the top of the list

[NoodleyAppendage]

9. Conscripted military service...like the Israeli model would be the best thing for our democracy.

Our system of government is in a sorry state for exactly the reasons that a draft would correct; we're lazy, uninvolved, and feel insulated from the decisions that politician make on our behalf. If every citizen had to serve in the military for two years NO MATTER WHAT THEIR SOCIAL OR ECONOMIC CIRCUMSTANCE, we would not be acting as the world's policeman and our foreign policy would be decidedly conservative in the use of force.

J

[Orsino]

11. That's a tremendous "if"...

...without which a draft would be a terrible thing. I wouldn't want this congress or this president to be able to conscript for whatever little conquests they can dream up. Not until we remove the money from politics, break up the media conglomerates and beef up public education for a generation or two should our government be trusted anywhere near a draft.

Other than that, though, the powerful having to shed family blood would indeed be a powerful disincentive to war.

[ohio2007]

15. everybody does their time in service in Israel..everybody

few in the US would accept that deal while the majority would protest

[coalition_unwilling]

77. After Israel's disastrous invasion of Lebanon last year, one wonders

why Olmert is still in power. Any non-biased observer can see that Hezbollah "won" in the sense that they fought a militarily superior power to a stalemate. Bewilders me why Olmert hasn't already been driven from power through a vote of no confidence by the Israeli Knesset.

[Fredda Weinberg]

16. ..

[monktonman]

17. Decidedly conservative use of force???

Like Isreal? yeah OK.
Isreal would never fight anyone.
How about Russia or Norht Korea...such peaceful countries. Thank goodness for their consripted military.
Re-read your post and think about the state of American foriegn policy as it now stands and try to imagine what it would be like if our military didnt have to arm twist our kids into joining. You really think a couple of people bitching about it would stop the Bush gang?

[fenriswolf]

18. i agree a draft might be good for kids to build charecter

but not a draft for war. A draft to be a social worker. building infrastructure, helping out in community centers, helping the elderly. We have alot of work here that needs to be done. We should not waste anymore children on war.

[AndyTiedye]

62. Sometimes the Military Builds Character, Sometimes it Destroys

Jason Tharp did not die in Iraq. He died on Parris Island.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6988854/
http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3302974

[fenriswolf]

69. i know it builds charecter

I was in the army. Their was no charecter built their that couldnt be built in america helping americans.

[Warren Stupidity]

19. It would be the best thing for your fascist authoritarian nation

My family and I will no longer be part of that political system.

[ixion]

26. I'm there with you... conscripted service? no way in hell

I'd rather be dead.

[IsItJustMe]

31. And what better way for the corp America to brain wash our children into laying down their lives for

the sake of corp greed.

No thank you.

[ixion]

33. conscripted service runs counter to a democracy

I'm glad I didn't have to serve in the military. The military screws with your mind, and makes you a killing machine. It's not the sort of thing someone who seeks enlightenment needs at all.

[Book Lover]

36. So many flaws, so little time

A) Israel allows exemptions, you know; it is not truly universal service.

B) Your "if ... then" statement is absurd. The only way to ensure that the armed forces of the US do not act "as the world's policeman" is to elect non-interventionist and anti-imperialist politicians. The only way to ensure our foreign policy used our might conservatively is to elect politicians who make peace, not war. I say that if you give a warmonger permission to train and equip the hands of every person in this nation, a nearly endless supply of cannon fodder, the bloodletting will never stop.

C) It is not possible to draft every single person in this nation: will you conscript the autistic, for example?

D) The 13th amendment to the federal constitution outlaws involuntary servitude. The fact that this was contravened in the past does not erase this amendment from our constitution.

[northzax]

118. big difference

Israel is in a de facto state of war, on their own territory and directly adjacent, and has been for 40 years. Much easier to swallow conscription in such a situation (also a religiously homogenous one)

[robcon]

10. I don't think it will happen.

Too few legislators want this. They will muddle through, if they have to, but there will be no draft in my lifetime, IMO.

[coalition_unwilling]

78. I agree. Today's politicians (on both sides) are hardly

profiles in courage. They are scared to death of the wrath of the American middle and upper classes. As long as those families don't "have a dog in the fight," America can continue its imperialist racist adventurism.

[sendero]

12. The minute a draft is instituted..

... the public will no longer allow the military to be played with like toy soldiers as they have been done lately.

The Pentagon and the Republicans know that a draft would be the death knell for their war-profiteering bullshit.

[Book Lover]

37. And just how to do think the public will be able to enforce this desire? (nm)

[sendero]

84. The ballot box...

.. Washington gets its way on a lot of stuff, but congress critters' number one priority is and always will be keeping their cushy-ass perk-encrusted job as a senator or congressperson.

[jeanruss]

13. about time

I wish this had happened earlier because citizens would have stopped the crimes that have gone on in our name. The war was fine for most conservatives as long as it wasn't THEIR children. They disgust me.

[AndyTiedye]

65. Once They Have the Draft, Nothing Can Stop Them

They would then have all the troops they need to start more wars, enforce martial law at home, whatever.

You think our protests will stop them? :rofl:

[ohio2007]

14. Murtha tried to bring it up for discusion......

dems and rethugs snubbed him

no draft unless Obama ( if elected) proposes it

[coco77]

66. He will and he or Hillary will be blamed...

this and other problems that the repubs have made are being set up for the Democrats because they think that this will help them to get back into the whitehouse in four more years..

[ananda]

20. Bush dumps his shit on everything..

.. and everyone, and then leaves it to the
next admin to try to clean it up.

I really feel sorry for the next prez.. s/he is
going to become so unpopular for having
to do the tough things to set the country
right.

I hope it doesn't have to come to a draft.
I think getting out of wars would be a nifty,
peachykeen, jimdandy solution.

[Danger Mouse]

24. How about ENDING OUR OCCUPATION OF IRAQ?

I think that'd be a great way to rebuild our military.

[dmosh42]

30. Bingo! End to talk of draft! n/t

[IsItJustMe]

32. Exactly. Nuff said.

[Danger Mouse]

43. Why are we even HAVING such a discussion. To people really want a DRAFT

to continue an illegal occupation?
HELL NO, WE WON'T GO!

[IsItJustMe]

52. Let all of these people that are for it send their kids. Most likely don't have kids, that's why

they are for it to begin with. No Thanks.

[Danger Mouse]

89. Exactly. I don't see any of the Draft Hounds of DU saying they'll sacrifice THEIR children for it.

[DBoon]

25. It won't be easy to avoid this time

Maybe a lot of the surveillance and data gathering on US civilians is designed to make draft-age individuals easier for the government to track?

Maybe a lot of the enhanced border control measures are designed to make it harder to leave the country to avoid conscription?

:tinfoilhat:

[AndyTiedye]

68. One of the Real Reasons for These Border WALLS they are Building?

[DBoon]

88. A huge number of US citizens have relatives in Mexico

or have close friends with relatives in that country

I could see someone crossing the border south to avoid conscription, particularly if they had family waiting for them.

Tighter border controls work both ways.

[MADem]

27. The only president with the resume to implement a draft is President McCain

How, realistically, are either Obama or Clinton, who never served, to tell others that they have to?

I think that multinational forces will probably be their first option, assuming we continue to 'adventure' abroad.

[ikojo]

133. Soon most people who run for president will not have served.

Obama was born in 1961. By the time he turned 18 it was an all volunteer army. Since most presidential candidates come from the upper class and since many members of the armed forces come from the lower middle class, it stands to reason that many future presidential candidates will not be veterans. John McCain may be the last veteran to run for the office of president of the US, unless of course John Kerry gives it another shot.

[lovuian]

28. After what they did to our Military that VOLUNTEERED

it will be a Cold Day in Hell before the Draft is instituted
If the People have something to say for it
Israel is in constant state of War being attacked on their borders all the time

Canada and Mexico isn't attacking us
we don't need a huge army to be cannon fodder for the rich corporations
Bush has used up the volunteer military
Abused them and Used them and taken thousands of young men and womens lives
Oh NO my friend it will be a cold day in hell
Americans children are standing up because its their lives that are at stake

Mind control thats what Drafting is about

we will have to be in WWIII and that is coming
no rich kid will ever serve you can bet on it

[ixion]

29. f*ck the draft... stop illegal invasions and occupations

I'm glad I'm beyond draft age, but I empathize with those younger folks who will be forced to face this crap.

The only good thing about a draft is that it will put fire in the bellies of college-age activists.

[FATCATs]

34. I agree a draft is bad but....

The motives of those who point out how removed the populace is from the decisions
their leaders make is an authentic one.

The level of participation in elections by our people is atrocious and that's a direct link
to a population that simply does not care because it is not involved.
For that reason I see a sort of draft for community service a real plus.

There is plenty to do right here in the United States to keep millions busy for years IMO.

[AndyTiedye]

70. There Are Plenty of People Looking for Work Too

You don't need to conscript people to do public service, unless you are trying to do it on the cheap.
Just HIRE people and PAY them a living wage.

Anything less is just a way to replace unionized workers with sub-minimum-wage conscript labor.
Why would we want to do that?

[mile18blister]

41. Having a draft allows unnecessary wars.

That was the argument during Viet Nam. If the unlimited supply of canon fodder was stopped the US couldn't fight unnecessary, unpopular wars.

Now we don't have the draft and we can have unnecessary, unpopular "wars" by abusing a small percentage of the population. Most people aren't directly affected, and many (though certainly not all) don't care all that much.

Seems like you can't win either way. Personally, I'm against the draft, but maybe the serious threat of one would wake up some people. I'd particularly like to target Young or College Repugs who claim they're doing more for the country by staying here instead of enlisting.

[L0oniX]

42. "Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy." - Henry Kissinger

[bluestateguy]

45. I will not serve this president or his heir apparent John McCain

I have my own life and it does not belong to the government.

Besides, I'm too busy making money and fulfilling my own selfish pursuits to help Bush and McCain one bit.

[backscatter712]

48. If I'm drafted, see ya in Canada!

There's no way I'm going to join this crime against humanity. Not for George W. Bush. Not in Iraq. Not for oil. I will not serve.

[leftchick]

49. "peacekeeping missions"??

lol. yeah right. Those missions are always an excuse to further the ambitions of the empire.

[Xenotime]

115. Or just general raping, pillaging and plundering

[olddad56]

50. "Be the first one on your block, to have your boy come home in a box"

Country Joe McDonald.

[AndyTiedye]

53. Easy Not to Have a Draft. GET OUT OF IRAQ!

Prior to the Iraq war, the services had move volunteers than they could handle.

People are voting against the war with their feet.

[Phred42]

57. DRAFT: The Window Of Eligibility - where do you fit in?

I created this a couple of years ago but it still hold up:

Window of Eligibility http://www.djrserv.com/woe.htm

[halobeam]

79. that is one scary chart...

puts my oldest eligible next year and my youngest eligible in 2013.

They are both horrible asthmatics, I know it matters somewhat, but will the difference be enough.

[Phred42]

83. Thank you - I spent some time on it

Sorry about your kids.

Of course this mess is designed to come to a head under a Democratic Congress and WH so the Reich can blame the Dems

Let's hope that the criteria they use for the Next draft will be reasonable and kids like yours can do alternate duty.
and........the kids of Bush and his entire crime family are NOT allowed to be exempt OR do ALTERNATE duty. phuck 'em

[ckramer]

58. Clinton's kid be drafted first

since she's pro-war.

[chknltl]

61. Conscript Blackwater!

The only folks who could be against such a plan would be republican congressmen and blackwater! The savings in $$ spent on blackwater would be worth it alone, having the We The People's army expanded by perhaps double is the other reason! Truly a win win solution.

(Sadly, I suspect we could not legally do this....big sigh.... we never do anything the easy way!)

[Ian David]

87. I've suggested that to Rep. Bernie Sanders.

My own, personal opinion is that we need a skills draft of blackwater mercenaries into the regular army.

[chknltl]

90. WOW! Great idea and you proposed it to a GREAT Congressman!

Listening to Representative Sanders on the Thom Hartmann show once a week is a treat!

How blatant a con game is blackwater? Canvas We The People's army for their employees, pay them between double and triple what they are used to getting then bill the American taxpayer quadruple for all costs! (slightly exaggerated figures yes, but that is what is being done).

I want to see this privatized army FULLY investigated and disbanded. I am imagining the kind of investigation our zealous congressmen do on steroid abuse in sports applied to blackwater! Wouldn't THAT be grand huh?

[Thothmes]

112. Under the Selective service rules, doubt that

many blackwater personnel could be drafted. Most are vets of the U.S. Armed services.

[freedomnorth]

72. "this draft will not end in our lifetime"

- commander in thief

:sarcasm:

[dommyluc]

73. OK, start a draft, but here's the catch:

Make it so EVERYONE goes, black or white, rich or poor, male or female, gay or str8 - everyone healthy from 18 to 50 (there are many positions in the military that can be served by older people in non-combat positions). No exemptions for college or seminary students, etc. If any doctors are found to be falsifying exemptions then they get a 10-year suspension on their medical license, 10 years in prison and a $1,000,000 fine (that'll put the fear of God into them if they even think about helping one of the chickenhawks). And here is the aforementioned catch:
The very first people to be conscripted are the sons and daughters of the President, Vice-President and the members of both houses of Congress. Believe me, if these politicians know that their kids are going to be the first to be sent off to a deadly situation where they could possibly be killed or maimed, they will think long and hard about voting for a phony war like the one we are involved in now.

[halobeam]

80. one thing to add.. the second to go are the families of the lobbyists.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

81. If only he admitted what our troops are actually being used for: protecting profitteers.

Our military was intended for defense of US and our territory,...NOT aggressively imposing the will of "powers" around the globe.

[and-justice-for-all]

91. Oh Canada Oh Canada a new home I see for thee!!

[Sin]

93. If there was a draft.

I certainly would not be going would politely tell them not fighting in this illegal war. not going to prison not paying any fines if you come looking for me do so at your own risk. Id rather die free in this country then under the jack boot of a war machine in another for nothing except money for the rich.

[OhioChick]

95. A Draft for "These" Wars?

They'll Have to Take My Kids Out of My Cold Dead Hands.

[ryanmuegge]

97. I wouldn't call what we're doing in Iraq, Afghanistan, or anywhere else for that matter, "defense"

[AndyTiedye]

98. Every Time a Democrat Supports the Draft, it Makes Karl Rove Smile

This is an election year. A draft is something you accuse your opponents of secretly planning to implement.
It is NOT something that YOU support, not if you want your candidate to have a chance of winning!

McCain probably would start up the draft.
He wants us to stay in Iraq for 100 years!
He wants to start more wars. He has all but promised to start more wars.

Hammer on that! Make McCain admit that he is going to start up the draft or deny it.

We actually started doing this to Bush** just before the 2004 election.
If we had started earlier, it might not have been close enough for the Repiggies to steal.

[AndyTiedye]

99. How Do They Get "Specialized Manpower and Training" With Draftees?

How do we reconcile this:

But according to Dubuque attorney and former Marine Corps Colonel Werner Hellmer, for the United States to continue its current defense and security programs, or to expand military operations, a draft will likely have to be instituted.

With this?

The roles and missions of the military have expanded beyond regular "warfighting," he said, to include counter-terrorism, humanitarian operations, peacekeeping missions and counterinsurgency operations, all of which require specialized manpower and training.

Specialized training takes a long time. Are they going to draft people for 5 or 10 years?

[JohnnyFianna]

105. Armed Forces Specialization

Well, given that most of the people currently in the armed forces are basic infantry and support, a draft would allow those that would like to serve in the armed forces to specialize while those drafted could do gruntwork for two years, or if they already possess skills, they could pursue those interests. I'm fairly sure that the specifics of "warfighting" vs. counter-terrorism and other specialized foreign policy needs would not be the problem so much as political will, as DU's discussion thus far demonstrates.

[Bill Cooper]

101. Draft not needed. They can hire more mercenaries at $100k a year.

This option is limitless, since the USG can keep expanding the budget to pay for the war endlessly, until the national debt is so overwhelming that no one will give us credit anymore. Then we can be like Brazil, or some other third world country, in hock to our creditors who will tell us exactly what we can and can't do. But we'll still occupy Baghdad and many other parts of New Texas. That's the payoff.

[USA_1]

107. Simple Solution

Re manpower needs for ``counter-terrorism, humanitarian operations, peacekeeping missions and counterinsurgency operations, all of which require specialized manpower and training. ``


Just stay out of foreign affairs and the problem is solved.

Abolish the Kyl-Lieberman amendment, NOW!!

[humbled_opinion]

108. Is Obama on the Record

Against any form of Draft? Is Hillary? I mean in 04 I was sure Bushie was gonna institute a draft and somehow he managed to dodge it but every pundit out there says the military is broken and it may be that only a draft can fix it...

That is a huge distinction that can be drawn between McCain and Obama or Hillary.

:headbang:

[Thor_MN]

109. Power to declare war should reside in only the hands of those that will fight it.

Simple vote of all US citizens who are eligible for military service. A yes vote is also your enlistment papers, those that don't vote are second in line, those that vote no are last.

[DuaneBidoux]

110. I hate this though (i have a 14 year old) if we had had a draft since vietnam..

I'll bet we wouldn't have had a war every ten years.

[Xenotime]

114. And they said this wan't Viet Nam...fucking liars.

[MiniMe]

116. It will have to be done, and they have fixed it so it will happen under a dem

president and a dem congress. Mission accomplished.

[HughBeaumont]

117. "Why do we fight?"

I think we fight because basically not enough people are standing up saying, "I'm not doing this anymore." - Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski (Ret), from the movie Why We Fight

[amborin]

119. plans to reinstate the draft were forged in 2003

but, yes, dems will take the blame for this

[Wabbajack_]

120. Listen to some of you

Supporting this.

Support for SLAVERY isn't what turned me on to the Democratic party. I thought that was right-wing jive.

And some of you saying "draft Bush's kids" "draft lobbyist's kids". They aren't "kids" they're young adults let's not visit their parents sins upon them.

And is anyone aware of the logistical nightmare of trying to enslave this generation which did not grow up expecting this as a possibility? I or my friends certainly wouldn't be showing up. Can and will <i>thousands</i> or more by jailed when they refuse to comply. Are they ready to give unprepared youths arms and tell them to kill? I for one would run at the first sign of danger and would be inclined to tell a drill sergeant to fuck off as soon as he raises his voice to me, that's to assume I don't pass out from the basic training.

And being forced to work in a kitchen or something doesn't sound any less fascist to me.

How about we end war instead.

[Caretha]

121. Thank you for saying what you did

Your first post at DU makes me have some faith that DU is still attracting people that have some common sense. I've been reading this thread and shaking my head in total disgust. There is only a small handful of people who replied to this post responsibly and with real thought. The rest need to get their heads out of their ass. This is the god damned US of America. Conscription or servitude should never be endorsed or promoted. It is not only counter to the Constitution, it is one of the reasons the founders of this country fought for independence against Imperial England.

Just because our government has been hijacked by a handful of neo-cons for the past 8 years, doesn't mean we need a draft in order to undo what they have done. It also doesn't make any sense that we should enable anyone to continue those policies that would allow the government the ability to wage endless wars. War should be a last resort. American forces should be used to protect America and our allies, not police the world, protect the interests of corporations or encourage American imperialism.

Btw, welcome to DU :)

[Wabbajack_]

134. Thanks. It's welcome back actually

I used to not have the underscore in my name. I'd hadn't been posting online anywhere in quite some time, I'd like to think I've grown since then. :7 So of course I forgot my password and had a new one sent...to a defunct old email address...

[SomeGuyInEagan]

127. Huzzah! Well written and welcome to DU! n/t

[superconnected]

130. Thank you!

[Massachusetts]

126. Pathetic!

After reading some of the posts I'm forced to comment.

We should never have stopped the draft. As we've seen, the mercenary and the "volunteer" armies aren't working. If we had the draft, I have to wonder, would we be in these current conflicts and predicaments.

All citizens have a stake in this country, you just can't sit on the sidelines and post all day. Its your country also, so do your part to take care of it.

Who said Democracy/Freedom is easy? Quis costodiet ipsos custodies?

"If we choose, we can live in a world of comforting illusion"
- Chomsky

[LynnTheDem]

128. No current draft? Sending wounded troops back to Iraq; that's a DRAFT.

Sending PTSD & brain-damaged troops back to Iraq; that's a DRAFT.

Sending retired soldiers up to and including 78-year-olds; that's a DRAFT.

Oh yes there is a draft in America. Only it's just soldiers -sick, wounded, old- that are being drafted, and as usual, most Americans don't give a shit about the soldiers.

[pegleg]

129. the more people that are drafted, the more they will need.

The answer is Not a new draft - the answer is for citizens to regain control of their own government. As long as we allow Black Box voting, have no Fairness Doctrine,and allow Superdelegates to nominate our candidates - we have given away our birthright to government from the bottom up.

[superconnected]

131. Too bad both Obama and Clinton support the war.

[superconnected]

Too bad both Obama and Clinton support the war.

[superconnected]

132. Too bad both Obama and Clinton support the war.