Chavez in Farc raid 'war' warning

[cal04]

Source: BBC

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has warned Colombia a strike against Farc rebels inside Venezuela like that in Ecuador on Saturday could start a war.

He was speaking after Colombian air and ground forces killed a senior member of the leftist rebels operating just inside Ecuadorean territory.

Farc spokesman Raul Reyes died along with at least 16 other rebels and one Colombian soldier, Bogota said.

(snip)
"Don't think about doing that over here because it would be very serious, it would be cause for war," he said.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7273413.stm

[Peace Patriot]

1. This is all being orchestrated by Donald Rumsfeld and Exxon Mobile...

See this thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3205852

Rumsfeld urges economic warfare against Venezuela (to weaken and destabilize it), in his Washington Post oped Dec 07. Exxon Mobile obliges. They move to freeze $12 billion in Venezuela's assets (over a dispute about Venezuela's 60% share in its own oil--a deal that Norway's Statoil, France's Total, British BP and even Chevron have agreed to). Rumfeld urges "swift" U.S. action in support of "friends and allies" in South America. I thought he meant fascist thugs planning coups within Venezuela and Bolivia, but he could also mean the fascists in Colombia, who are supported by billions of dollars in Bush/U.S. military aid (our tax dollars). And Ecuador (rich in oil, leftist government, Chavez ally) is equally a Rumsfeld target. I sensed that they would move before Ecuador throws the U.S. military base out of the country, sometime this year, when its lease is up (as pledged by Ecuadoran president Rafael Correa), and before Bush leaves office. The "hot" part of Oil War II: South America may have just begun.

[cstanleytech]

3. Ok, I have only had about 2 hours sleep

but didnt exxon mobile (never did think that merger was a good idea) pretty much really get their nose bent out of joint in the first place because they invested in the oil fields there and Chavez took it away from them after they had invested deeply in time and equipment?
And as for the other oil companies was not Chavez pretty much acting like a thug and saying it was going to be his way or no way, in a way you might even say he was holding a gun to their head if of course I am recalling it correctly, so am I recalling the basics correctly about what happened or do I need more sleep?

[ProudDad]

4. ExxonMobil is EVIL

and deserves extinction!!!

Exxon's Day of Valdez Reckoning May Never Arrive
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=a4Gh9P46Yd0Y&refer=home

"This week the U.S. Supreme Court entertained arguments that Exxon should pay far less -- or nothing at all.

Lawyers for death row inmates should study at the feet of those who have managed to put off Exxon's day of reckoning."


http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/1220-04.htm

"Venezuela has given the world's biggest oil company, ExxonMobil, until the end of this year to enter a joint venture with the state.

Failure to do so will almost certainly result in Exxon losing its oil field concessions in the country."

Oil Field Concessions granted by the Venezuelan People to the oil companies -- it's NOT THEIR OIL!!! It's the property of the Venezuelan People according to Chavez!

"But Venezuela says it is only fair that the foreigners are made to pay up as they have got away lightly in the past.

Much of the oil revenue in Venezuela goes into social projects in shanty towns and poor rural areas.

But the US oil giant, ExxonMobil, is digging in its heels and is so far refusing to agree to the terms of the new deal."

Fuck 'em!!!

[Hugabear]

6. I don't know about extinction - nationalizing them would be better

We should nationalize all of Big Oil - if you're going to operate within our borders, you're going to work under OUR rules and regulations, and stop ripping off the American people simply to fill your corpo-fascist bank accounts.

[ProudDad]

17. I'd go for that

if we actually had a democracy in USAmerika.

[Judi Lynn]

5. Maybe if you were awake enough to post, you would have noticed this is a thread

which concerns a totally different subject.

Since you brought up Exxon, you may want to read the statement signed by members of the British Parliament:

STATEMENT RE EXONNMOBIL AND PDVSA

We note with deep concern that on 7 February an English court granted an injunction to US multinational oil company ExxonMobil freezing the assets of the Venezuelan oil company PDVSA in England and Wales. The order covered assets to the value of US$12 billion.

The Venezuelan Government was given no notice of the case and was not afforded any opportunity to be represented at the hearing.

This week PDVSA will appeal the decision in the High Court and seek to revoke the injunction.

The action by ExxonMobil was in response to the policy of the Venezuelan government to take back majority control of their own oil resources. Unlike other international oil companies, where some 30 out of 32 contracts have been successfully renegotiated and amicable agreements and compensation terms reached with the Venezuelan government, ExxonMobil refused the terms offered.

We believe that the action by ExxonMobil, and the ruling by the court, contravenes the right of the democratically elected government of Venezuela to exercise sovereignty over its natural resources. The nationalisation of Venezuela's state oil company, holder of some of the world's largest oil reserves, under the government of President Hugo Chavez has allowed Venezuela to tackle a range of social inequalities, by taking back the oil wealth and redistributing it to benefit the Venezuelan people.

We urge the amicable settlement of this dispute through arbitration under the auspices of the International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes, a body of the World Bank, as sought by the Venezuelan government in compliance with the terms of the contract signed between PDVSA and ExxonMobil in 1995.

We further restate our support for Venezuela's national sovereignty, including the right to determine its own policy in relation to its oil and natural resources in favour of the people of that country, rather than in the interests of multinational companies.

SIGNATURES

Posted by Joanne98
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x342004

[cstanleytech]

55. Interesting, I was responding not to the OP however

but to someone else who had posted a link that made reference to Exxon mobile.
Now what part of what i said was i wrong about?
Did exxon mobile not get its nose bent out of joint laregly because Chavez wanted to sieze the exxon mobile assests and infrastructure they had built to get at the oil? A simple yes or no will suffice.

Did Chavez kind of act like a thug by basically pointing a gun to the heads of the other oil companies to get them to agree with the new terms or lose it all anyway? Again a simple yes or no will suffice.

[johnboy43]

57. yep

You got that right...Hugo pretends to be robin hood, taking from the rich and giving to the poor, but what he doesn't tell you is he pocketing half the money before helps out the poor in a minimal way. He is like a spoiled child...if you saw him make an idiot out of himself at the united nations you know what I am talking about.

[Truth2Tell]

100. he's pocketing 1/2 the money?

Can you back that up? Gotta link?


I didn't think so.

[johnboy43]

53. get real

Facist in Colubia? The billions are for drug lords Einstein. Rumsfeld? He has not clout whatsoever.. and the U.S need oil for the next decade at least so they have to kiss Hugo's rather large Arse... Ecuador is a cool place but a bit gutless when it comes to Chavez and his oil wealth so the yare pretty much going to kiss his arse also and follow him like a puupy dog. No War no chance...althought it would be nice to see Chavez knocked down a peg, the Venezuelan people don't deserve that...but maybe he is inviting trouble with that big mouth of his?

[Judi Lynn]

2. Ecuador's Rafael Correa is seriously angry, as well, re: Uribe's attack on Ecuadorean soil.

Ecuador's president protests Colombian incursion on territory to fight Colombian rebels
The Associated Press
Published: March 2, 2008


QUITO, Ecuador: President Rafael Correa announced Saturday that Ecuador will send a diplomatic note to protest Colombia's military incursion into Ecuador, in an attack that killed a senior Colombian rebel commander.

Correa questioned whether Colombian President Alvaro Uribe had been honest with him when he first informed him of the raid.

"The (Colombian) president either was poorly informed or brazenly lied to the president of Ecuador," Correa said. "We are going until the ultimate consequences for a clarification of these scandalous actions that are an aggression on our territory."

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/03/02/america/LA-GEN-Ecuador-Colombia.php

[factanonverba]

7. As A Colombian

I have never been happier. I have called my family this morning and we are all jumping for joy. We adore our President who has taken the fight to them.

The fight took place on the Colombian - Ecuadorian border. This group of 28 FARC terrorists were killed a mere 1,800 meters inside Ecuador. The Colombian and Ecuadorian press reports that and it also is reporting that Uribe called Correa of what happened. Correa noted he would send a group to investigated but that he was in solidarity with the Colombian government and the Colombian people, he lamented the loss of life but that he understood that the FARC often takes refuge in Ecuador after committing acts of terror in Colombia.

Raul Reyes is dead. He is fucking dead at long last. It is long overdue. With him died 16 others narco-guerrillas. 11 others were captured. Reyes was the number two man in the FARC. Also killed was the number 5, el Cantor. Tirofijo you old whore, you are next. We are going to end this war on our terms. The FARC is finished. Uribe has culled their ranks from over 50,000 to now under 20,000 with a carrot and stick approach. Any guerrilla that wants to resume civilian life can. Over 25,000 have. To those that don't they should expect the wrath of the Colombian people, we are tired of war, of being kidnapped . We are a country on the move, I am proud of Uribe of my country, I am going to make one big ajaicao and drink some aguardiente. It is good day to be a Colombian

Get your head out of your asses and start seeing the Colombian situation for it is , a Colombian problem not this global conspiracy. I am an Edwards supporter a progressive but if you don't fight terrorism then you are simply not human.

[Judi Lynn]

9. Ecuador's president protests Colombian incursion on territory to fight Colombian rebels

Ecuador's president protests Colombian incursion on territory to fight Colombian rebels
The Associated Press
Published: March 2, 2008

QUITO, Ecuador: President Rafael Correa announced Saturday that Ecuador will send a diplomatic note to protest Colombia's military incursion into Ecuador, in an attack that killed a senior Colombian rebel commander.

Correa questioned whether Colombian President Alvaro Uribe had been honest with him when he first informed him of the raid.

"The (Colombian) president either was poorly informed or brazenly lied to the president of Ecuador," Correa said. "We are going until the ultimate consequences for a clarification of these scandalous actions that are an aggression on our territory."

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/03/02/america/LA-GEN-Ecuador-Colombia.php

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As a Democratic supporter of John Edwards, no doubt you're aware of the following:

Opposes trade with Colombia, South Korea, and Peru. (Nov 2007)

http://www.ontheissues.org/John_Edwards.htm

You're probably ALSO aware, as a Democrat posting at D.U., that the Democratic Party has ALWAYS been a committed supporter of labor unions.

Many of us really appreciate John Edward's principled positions, and are looking forward to all his future work in politics.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On edit, adding photo of Uribe as he attended the inauguration of Ecuador's Rafael Correa:



Venezuela's Hugo Chavez, Bolivia's Evo Morales, Ecuador's Rafael Correa, and Alvaro Uribe.

[Peace Patriot]

21. That about says it for Uribe, that little sad sack of a Bush-used-up man.

Notice that all the youthful vigor, and energy, and conversation, and new ideas, and personal strength, integrity and friendship--not mention male beauty--is on the Left side of the photo!

Pix = 1,000 words.

[INDIA]

23. "male beauty"????!?!?!?!?! Chavez worship sinks to a new low.! LOL! n/t

[Peace Patriot]

35. Well, Chavez isn't conventionally beautiful, true. I was speaking more of Rafael Correa

and Evo Morales, whom I consider stunningly beautiful by any standard. Chavez has a face that reminds me of the old Olmec statues--more stolid----but he certainly shares the other characteristics--youthful vigor, energy, engagement with others, curiosity, new ideas. Together they form of picture of the exciting, new, young leadership of South America--a beautiful thing to behold. Next to them, Uribe looks like a haunted ghost--as well he should, if he has any conscience at all. I think it's quite saddening how much effort Chavez has exerted, to draw Uribe into this new scene--of political hope, independence from the U.S., regional development, peace, and cooperation among South American countries--with Uribe just having too many Bushite talons into his hide, as if they're sucking the blood out of him. Look at his face! He looks ill. He looks like the other face of "Dorian Gray" (the decrepit hidden one--but visible here). He used to be a fairly good looking man. It seems like his evil associations have drained him of life. It's ironic that the Bushites have pursued a failed strategy of "isolating" Chavez--something that other South American leaders have soundly rejected--and look who ends up isolated--the Bushites' bus boy in South America!

See Forbes evaluation of this Bushite strategy toward Chavez (04/07)
http://www.forbes.com/business/2007/04/20/venezuela-hugo-chavez-biz-cx_0423oxford.html

Even the corporate predators can see how stupid it is, and what the results are--which are plainly visible in this photo. Chavez, Correa and Morales are the future. Uribe is the brutal, counter-productive past. The Bushites have turned the future against us! What idiots! Not to mention murderous dirtbags! This CAN be repaired--because neither these new leaders, nor the leftist MAJORITY in South America hate the people of the U.S. If we supported their aspirations to social justice, democracy and self-determination, and their desire not to be looted by U.S.-based corporate predators, and not to be brutalized by U.S. proxy dictators, we might be able to form a partnership with them, to all of our benefits. As Evo Morales has said, "We want partners, not bosses." He has also said, "The time of the people has come." And that is the truth--there, but not yet here. It is going to take a democracy revolution here--as has happened there--to put us right with the world, in our own hemisphere, and elsewhere, and to put our own ship of state back on the right course, or, if you will, on the right course for the first time, toward world peace and justice. We can LEARN from these South American leaders and their supporters--if only we can get this din of corporate propaganda out of our ears. They are showing us how it's done!

The charge of "Chavez worship" is hauntingly similar to the Clinton charge of "cult worship" of Obama. And, truly, no one should worship ANY leaders. And ALL leaders should be carefully watched and held accountable. But this charge against activist citizens and voters--people who take the trouble to review many sources of information, and learn the facts, and who bother to go to political rallies, and who support and cheer a leader whom they feel will act in their interests, and who don't just accept what the political establishment tells them--which is how I judge many Obama supporters--has an "old guard" smell about it. It seems to me aimed at stifling the kind of citizen activism that we desperately need.

Similarly, your charge against me--that I am a "Chavez worshiper"--because I consider these new leaders to be "beautiful" (and I notice you only focus on Chavez--a rightwing obsession), seems aimed at shutting me up, and disregarding and marginalizing my actually very knowledgeable opinion of Chavez and the New Left in South America. I was just adding my aesthetic opinion to other information. This photo is very telling. And, to me, the left half of the photo IS beautiful. It represents new life, new ideas, democracy refreshed, and the rise to power, at last, of South American leaders who really do have their peoples' interest at heart. It is beautiful on many levels. If I worship anybody, like a fan, it would probably be Evo Morales. Chavez is a bit too full of himself. Correa is almost put-offishly gorgeous. Morales has a saintly aura, although, as a former union leader--who was kidnapped and beaten by rightwing thugs--he has a spine of steel. I go for that combination--outward mildness, inner strength--and a warm kind of beauty that invites friendship.

Why should I shut off my poetic sensibilities in viewing a photo? I have them well under control. I know they can be fooled. I tend far toward the rational. You might say I "worship" the rational--facts, reasoned argument. But sometimes an image can sum things up. I think this photo does. That's all I'm saying. Why have you turned it into "Chavez worship"?

[murray hill farm]

39. Yes!!!

And thank you for saying so...and so eloquently. Pat

[johnboy43]

61. get over yourself

When the shit hits the fan, and it will , I wonder how much your going to admire this fat spoiled brat ( Chavez) when he brings doom upon the Venezuelan people... he has a big mouth and is NOT helping the people nearly as much as he claims to be. He is a powermonger who wants to be in office forever. luckily the people are too smart for that and voted him down... Its a good thing thing oil is so expensive or where would Venezuela be now? What clout would Hugo have in world affairs? None

[bitchkitty]

68. Evo Morales is FINE. n/t

[Judi Lynn]

25. You've noticed also that progressives are ALWAYS more normal looking than fascists.

Same thing works here at home, as anyone can tell by looking at the evidence.

I think it's because as a group, their minds and spirits are far, FAR cleaner. Healthier. They don't spend time scheming against their fellow man the way fascists do.

Can't help but notice this in almost all the photos of leftist leaders in Latin America. They are simply better people, as they live for a higher purpose.

I love that photo. It looks exactly as if the sumbitch knows how much admiration the other leaders have for him, and he's having a hard time with it.

[eridani]

10. I'll bet you just loved it the last time they put down their weapons and ran for office

1000 or so were killed by your right wing whackjob pals. Good job on being responsible for the deaths of half of all union organizers murdered in the whole world, too.

[Judi Lynn]

12. They really try to downplay that, don't they? After all, they are only poor people. No one notable.

It's fair game if death squads lay waste to them, apparently.

More union workers killed in Colombia than the entire rest of the world altogether. Filthy a-holes.

[Judi Lynn]

13. As someone proud of your President Uribe, you're probably pleased to learn

Uribe was mentioned in Pentagon documents which have recently been declassified.

U.S. INTELLIGENCE LISTED COLOMBIAN PRESIDENT URIBE AMONG
"IMPORTANT COLOMBIAN NARCO-TRAFFICKERS" IN 1991

Then-Senator "Dedicated to Collaboration with the Medellín Cartel at High Government Levels"

Confidential DIA Report Had Uribe Alongside Pablo Escobar, Narco-Assassins

Uribe "Worked for the Medellín Cartel" and was a "Close Personal Friend of Pablo Escobar"


Washington, D.C., 1 August 2004 - Then-Senator and now President Álvaro Uribe Vélez of Colombia was a "close personal friend of Pablo Escobar" who was "dedicated to collaboration with the Medellín cartel at high government levels," according to a 1991 intelligence report from U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) officials in Colombia. The document was posted today on the website of the National Security Archive, a non-governmental research group based at George Washington University.

Uribe's inclusion on the list raises new questions about allegations that surfaced during Colombia's 2002 presidential campaign. Candidate Uribe bristled and abruptly terminated an interview in March 2002 when asked by Newsweek reporter Joseph Contreras about his alleged ties to Escobar and his associations with others involved in the drug trade. Uribe accused Contreras of trying to smear his reputation, saying that, "as a politician, I have been honorable and accountable."

The newly-declassified report, dated 23 September 1991, is a numbered list of "the more important Colombian narco-traffickers contracted by the Colombian narcotic cartels for security, transportation, distribution, collection and enforcement of narcotics operations." The document was released by DIA in May 2004 in response to a Freedom of Information Act request submitted by the Archive in August 2000.

The source of the report was removed by DIA censors, but the detailed, investigative nature of the report -- the list corresponds with a numbered set of photographs that were apparently provided with the original -- suggests it was probably obtained from Colombian or U.S. counternarcotics personnel. The document notes that some of the information in the report was verified "via interfaces with other agencies."

President Uribe -- now a key U.S. partner in the drug war -- "was linked to a business involved in narcotics activities in the United States" and "has worked for the Medellín cartel," the narcotics trafficking organization led by Escobar until he was killed by Colombian government forces in 1993. The report adds that Uribe participated in Escobar's parliamentary campaign and that as senator he had "attacked all forms of the extradition treaty" with the U.S.

More:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB131/index.htm

Smooth!

[Truth2Tell]

101. Well, if the Defense Intelligence Agency

says it's true then it must be true.

Cuz they never make anything up.

:crazy:

[Hugabear]

14. Which side is the terrorists?

Is it FARC, or is it the right-wing Colombian death squads?

[ohio2007]

15. looks like the witch hunt on factanonverba is about to start

factanonverba
your posts will be viewed with suspicion as opposed to potential open dialog of real discussion......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw4UAtKBfug&feature=related
just saying, there is a mob mentality by some members ;)

[ProudDad]

19. The only "mob mentality"

being displayed on this thread is the mindless rant by "factanonverba" supporting his/her class interests.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

82. Careful P.D. - your Stalinism is showing

You have no facts with which to challenge factanonverba. You certainly have
no reason to believe that narco-trafficers are nice people. So instead you fall back
on classic Stalinist ad-hominems.

Not that I expected anything more out of you.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[AlphaCentauri]

95. I can't some one cheering violence and murder and talk about moral values

You have no facts what so ever to probe what factanonverba wrote, Uribe's government has links to narco-traffickers he is going to end up like Alberto Fujimori.

[booley]

112. Excuse me but

Having read P.D's post, he's right in a n essential fact.

There are Right Wing Death Squads in Columbia and they do have a connection to Uribe

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/17/AR2007041702007.html

Nor did I see where Proud Dad said that narco trafficers were "nice people". Just because the death squads are on the side fighting the FARC doe snto mean the death squads are somehow good.

So according to you, pointing out a false dichotomy is Stalinism?

Well then here's some more "Stalinists"

Susan B Anthony
Howard Zinn
Noam Chomsky
Ben Franklin
Martin Luther King
Mark Twain

And me. Guess I better grow my bushy mustache.

You know, I am an agnostic on Chavez. i don't agree with everything he has done. And I would even be willing to entertain that Chavez is every bit the dictator you and so many others claim..if you could just give some proof that doesn't fall apart on closer examination. I mean so far the only people who have not relied on baseless accusations are the people not calling Chavez a dictator.

And now you guys resort to not just name calling but pitifully dumb name calling.

STALINISTS?!

Don't go there. It;s a dumb place you are going and if you go to that dumb place you go alone.

[davidinalameda]

114. some?

LOL

the Chavez enablers on here will gang up on him faster than flies on shit

I for one can't wait until their great leader reveals himself for the petty tinhorn dictator he wants to be, just like his hero Fidel

[Judi Lynn]

26. If you give the wrong answer you, too, may be visited by monsters with chainsaws.

The “Sixth Division”: Military-paramilitary Ties and U.S. Policy in Colombia


II. The "Sixth Division": A Pattern of Support
The State does not exist as such. The only thing that is reality is the attack. You don't know if they are paramilitaries, the Army, the Navy, or the guerrillas. All of them are fearsome and arbitrary.

- "Mirta," a black activist from the Pacific coast

On January 17, 2001, an estimated fifty paramilitaries pulled dozens of residents from their homes in the village of Chengue, Sucre.

"They assembled them into two groups above the main square and across from the rudimentary health center," the Washington Post later reported. "Then, one by one, they killed the men by crushing their heads with heavy stones and a sledgehammer. When it was over, twenty-four men lay dead in pools of blood. Two more were found later in shallow graves. As the troops left, they set fire to the village."1

Among the reported dead was a sixteen-year-old boy, whose head was severed from his body.2

The Washington Post reporter interviewed more than two dozen residents who said that the Colombian military helped coordinate the massacre by providing safe passage to fighters who identified themselves as paramilitaries. They said that the military sealed off the area by conducting a mock daylong battle, allowing the paramilitaries to search out and kill the Colombians they had targeted for death.3

Months earlier, local authorities warned military, police, and government officials that paramilitaries planned to carry out a massacre. Yet their pleas for protection proved futile.4 Even as paramilitaries moved toward Chengue to commit

the massacre, timely information from local police on their vehicles, whereabouts, and direction was ignored by military commanders responsible for the area.5

Months later, Navy soldier Rubén Darío Rojas was arrested and charged with supplying weapons to paramilitaries and helping coordinate the attack. In addition, Colombia's Internal Affairs agency filed disciplinary charges against Brig. Gen. Rodrigo Quiñones and five other security force officers for allegedly ignoring detailed information about paramilitary movements in the area and taking no measures to prevent paramilitaries from committing the massacre. At the time, Quiñones was the commander of the first Naval Brigade, responsible for the Chengue region.6

The Chengue case is far from unusual. Human Rights Watch received similar accounts of abuses from dozens of eyewitnesses, government investigators, human rights defenders, and journalists in 2000 and during a mission to Colombia in January 2001, when the Chengue massacre took place. Consistently, the accounts described Colombia's security forces, in particular the Colombian Army, as tolerating, supporting, and in some regions actively coordinating with paramilitaries. Even as Colombia's elected authorities and military high command claimed to promote human rights, Human Rights Watch found abundant, credible evidence of continued collaboration with and support for the paramilitary groups responsible for most human rights violations in Colombia.

More:
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/colombia/2.1.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I had never heard much about Colombia until I heard from a man who left Colombia with his wife. At that time I learned about the actual use of chainsaws to terrorize villages in Colombia. Could hardly believe my ears, as it didn't seem possible people could be that filthy.

Once I started researching it, I learned the man had not been lying. If anything, he had been extremely lowkey about the subjectm downright understated.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Published on Thursday, April 19, 2001 by Agence France Presse
"The Chainsaw Massacre" Is Not a Movie in Colombia: Witness
by Jacques Thomet

BOGOTÁ -- "The Chainsaw Massacre is not a film in Colombia," said government ombudsman Eduardo Cifuentes, referring to the April 12 paramilitary massacre in Alto Naya, 650 kilometers (404 miles) southeast of here.
He was revealing details of the massacres of civilians which occurred during Easter week in this overwhelmingly Roman Catholic country in a wave of right-wing paramilitary and leftist guerrilla violence.

It left some 128 people dead, including 40 in Alto Naya, according to official reports quoted by Cifuentes in an interview with AFP.

The former Constitutional Tribunal president visited the massacre sites Monday at a remote jungle area in the Western Andes mountains, in the Cauca department.

Around 400 paramilitaries took part in this "caravan of death" against civilians accused of supporting leftist guerrillas, Cifuentes said in his Bogota office.

"The remains of a woman were exhumed. Her abdomen was cut open with a chainsaw. A 17-year-old girl had her throat cut and both hands also amputated," said the ombudsman, providing details of "the cruelty and extreme abuse of the paramilitaries."

"They carried a list of names around. The would kill many for insignificant reasons, like not explaining where they got their cellular phone," he said.

"A neighbor pounced upon a paramilitary that was ready to shoot him and took his weapon, but unfortunately he didn't know how to fire a rifle. They dragged him away, cut him open with a chainsaw and chopped him up," a witness of the massacre told El Espectador daily.

More:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0419-04.htm

[Peace Patriot]

16. Yeah, you've never had a better chance than with the Bush Junta, and billions

in U.S. taxpayer money for guns, bullets, helicopters, surveillance, whatever you need. Go get 'em! 'Dead or alive!' 'Bring it on!' 'If yer not with us, yer agin us!' 'Mission accomplished!' And be proud! Be proud of this wonderful man Uribe whose buds running the military and whose relatives go after the little people--the union leaders, the small peasant farmers, the community organizers, for Occidental Petroleum, and Drummond Coal and Chiquita, and for the really big drug lords--and torture and kill them without mercy. These "terrorists" need to be exterminated. Doesn't matter who they are. Doesn't matter what they did. 16 killed! Whoopee! Man, your guys scored, big time! And you're jumping for joy! Who cares who they are! And 11 captured! What fun that must be, thinking of their beatings and waterboardings, and mysterious deaths in captivity! Sheer happiness! The "culled" vermin get what's coming to them. Something to share with the family, truly.

With upright Colombians like yourself--an Edwards supporter no less--cheering on the murderous, Bush/U.S.-funded Colombian security forces and their death squads, Colombia will soon be a paradise of social justice and peaceful sharing of the wealth. And, hey, if you just kill a lot of the little people, that's less you have to share with, and if you terrorize and intimidate the rest, they'll never get organized to demand fairness, so you can have social justice and peaceful sharing of the wealth only among the rich, like we have here in the U.S., accomplished by different means. Won't that be grand! A little Bushite paradise right in the heart of the South American oil fields.

But, you know what, I can see the parallel to all those Bush "scores" in Iraq--all those "No. 2 Al Qaeda leaders" who keep getting killed, along with anybody who happens to be standing nearby. You might want to think about that just a bit--after your celebrations of the deaths of 17 people--most of whose names you don't know, and whose crimes are unknown, and will ever be unknown. (If they shoot back, they're criminals, right? By definition. And even if they don't. Even if they're just standing there. In fact, who knows what really happened? We have only the lying, corrupt Uribe government's word for it.) But, after you do your little death dance, and have some cake and champagne, and share your joy with your family, you might want to think about this FORTY-PLUS YEAR civil war, and how the government keeps claiming victory, and keeps killing people, yet it goes on and on and on and on.

In a civil war, there are horrors that are harder to heal than in any other kind of war. We know that here in the U.S. We had one. Vengeance continues for generations. They know that now, in Iraq--because the Bush Junta instigated one there, on purpose, to divide the country, the better to steal its oil. Now they've turned their bloody-minded attention to Colombia and South America, and their strategy is the same. Stoke civil war--within Colombia, where a hot war is still simmering, and between South American states, where a hot war can be stirred up by border incursions into Ecuador and Venezuela, and where fascists wait for the word from Washington to strike at democratic governments--Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador (where the oil is). ALL THE BETTER TO STEAL YOUR RESOURCES. ALL THE BETTER TO MAKE YOU HATE EACH OTHER. You have the chance--a chance the Iraqis never had--to change this anti-South American dynamic, to--for once in South American history--throw off U.S. domination, and gain regional control of your resources and your future. Do you not see how you are being manipulated by the WORST powermongers in the U.S.? Do you not see that a peaceful settlement of this 40-plus year conflict, and joint, cooperative action with other South American countries, on regional independence and development, and on fairness to all citizens, will be to your benefit?

Colombia is isolated amongst numerous countries with leftist governments that are now working together toward South American INDEPENDENCE from the U.S. and its corporate predators. Colombia is way outnumbered, and you are dependent on the U.S., which has pushed you further and further into Bushite modes of behavior, that make it harder and harder to achieve peace and its blessings--prosperity for all. You don't achieve peace by more killing. Others will spring up to take the place of those you've killed--and every time you kill an innocent, which happens frequently in Colombia, you make peace all the more difficult to achieve. As happens with every civil war, you are trapped in a cycle of violence, driven by revenge. You've been in it for 40+ years, now fueled with BILLIONS in MY money, in my family's money, in all U.S. taxpayers' money--money that WE need for health care and other programs, and to pull out of the horrors that the Bush Junta has inflicted us with, including a TEN TRILLION DOLLAR deficit over the next decade! You must STOP this cycle of violence, not only because it is self-perpetuating, but because the money's going to run out, real fast. And with no bullets and guns, paid for by us, you cannot defend this fascist narco-government any longer. You need OTHER strengths--the inner civil strength of social justice, and the outer regional strength through alliances, trade and development in cooperation with other South American countries, almost all of whom now have leftist, social justice governments.

It is NOT IN YOUR INTEREST, as a Colombian, to continue this Bush/U.S.-funded killing! Hugo Chavez has been trying to tell Uribe this for several years. Yet Uribe is so in hock to the Bush Junta, he can't extricate himself or your country.

That's how I see it. And, further, these little death victories you are celebrating, added to the humongous carnage that the Colombian government has inflicted on its people--on its poor!--over the decades, are coming at MY expense--at the cost of MY country--financially and ethically. You think this is about what you want. Well, it's not only about that. It's also about what *I* want. And *I* want my money back! Because it has bought nothing but death!

Go in peace, compadre! And stop celebrating death! And stop falling for Bushite 'mission accomplished' LIES! Try to think what's best for your country--more death, more military aid from the fast-diminishing U.S. treasury, more U.S. dictation of Colombia's policy--or the new South American independence and prosperity that Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, Chile and Nicaragua are working hard to create? Do you want to have war with these countries, stoked by Bushites and Exxon Mobile, or do you want to join with them in creating peace? Do you want Colombia to remain the dinosaur of the continent, or do you want to create a better future?

[ProudDad]

18. I always get a kick

from the bloodthirsty, mindless rants of privileged "white" members of the South and Central American ruling classes when their riches and power are threatened.

Keep the laughs coming!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[bitchkitty]

20. factanoncerebrum

You pull YOUR head out of your ass. You're a progressive like I'm an accountant.

[High Plains]

22. How's your trade union movement coming?

Only 50 killed last year under Uribe's government?

Are you ready for a truth and reconciliation moment in Colombia?

[Bacchus39]

59. the FARC isn't, they rejected the demobilization plan

n/t

[EstoniaKat]

42. Congratulations, factanonverba

on Columbia's victory. Too many people have suffered from FARC over the years.

Now if they could get Ingrid Betancourt back, that would be a monster victory.

Sadly, most of the "revolutionary" worshipers on this thread have no idea who she is.

[Peace Patriot]

46. You're throwing that charge out broadly, that us "revolutionary worshipers"

don't know who Ingrid Betancourt is. Well, I know who she is. I also know that she just sent a message to the world, through one of the four hostages that Chavez just got released, that a POLITICAL SETTLEMENT is the ONLY way to stop this civil war.

"Too many people have suffered from FARC over the years"--you say. True enough. And too many MORE people have suffered from Colombia's security forces and closely associated rightwing paramilitary death squads, that human rights groups have accused of causing most of the carnage.

I don't condone FARC's violence. I don't condone the Colombian government's violence, which has often fallen on the innocent. It's a CIVIL WAR. There has been violence and suffering on both sides. And clearly Colombia is in a CYCLE of violence that can only be stopped by STOPPING THE KILLING. This slaughter in Ecuador is NOT a "victory" for Colombia. It is a tragedy for Colombia. It means that the Uribe government is rejecting one of the best hopes for peace in many years. The hostages were reaching out. World leaders were reaching out. Venezuela was reaching out. Argentina, Brazil and others wanted to help. Even FARC was reaching out, by releasing hostages, without any of their conditions being met--and at considerable peril to themselves, as Uribe try to sabotage the first release by ARRESTING the FARC negotiators who were in transit with "proof of life" documents--in callous disregard of the HOSTAGES' safety.

And Uribe and his Bushite puppetmasters just slammed the door in everyone's faces. No peace! More killings! This has been going on for FORTY YEARS!

Victory? VICTORY?! Yeah, right. "Mission accomplished."

[Judi Lynn]

48. Uribe plans to get Ingrid Betancourt back? By invading and bombing Ecuador?

Uribe is telling Ingrid Betancourt she can kiss her ass goodbye, unfortunately. It's in his interests to keep the hostages just where they are, or even murdered. That allows him to accelerate his war machine, and rake in even larger profits from the U.S. taxpayers, who are overextended, as it is.

He has nothing to gain from a cessation of hostilities. He would have to cut back on vast chunks of U.S. foreign aid, and live on a far different budget, and that's just not going to happen.

Uribe is not interested in rescuing ANY hostages. He's not even interested in the fact his death squads have put so many citizens off their lands, out of their homes, that Colombia has created the second largest humanitarian crisis of homelessness, and deprivation, only less than the Sudan.

[Bacchus39]

54. the FARC could just let her go or don't your sympathies extend that far?

n/t

[AlphaCentauri]

76. mmmm they should and Uribe have to be in court for all the civilians murders perpetrated by

the paramilitaries

[Judi Lynn]

80. He would be in court for the rest of his life, and beyond. This is the part

someone has told our corporate media to forget. No problemo, apparently. Maybe it's been explained to them that too much coverage of the mind-boggling atrocities, like entire villages of Colombians slaughtered by chainsaws, would put the reporter in a vulnerable position, looking over his/her shoulder the rest of his/her life.

Colombian reporters (the ones who didn't get kill or run away to another country altogether) admit they self-censor now for self-preservation.

It's actually pretty funny, in some cases, as the wealthy landowners who originally hired these murderous clowns to chase off peasants, and to act as security for them started finding out that now THEY just might become victims too, as one rancher told a reporter, they approached him to buy his ranch at a wildly low price, which he declined, only to be told that they would work out an arrangement with his widow! They have ended up paying pennies for entire estates that way, and who the hell's going to step in, at that late date, and look after the rancher's interests? One could see it as poetic justice.

There are so many dispossessed people our own corporate media ALSO never mention, driven off their lands, out of their homes, left homeless, wandering, without resources, that Colombia has created the largest human crisis outside the Sudan, as has been claimed by human rights groups. How is it our own media have NEVER MENTIONED THIS CRISIS TO US?

Speaking of human rights, Uribe loves nothing more, apparently, than to howl against human rights workers in Colombia, targeting them, threatening them, accusing them of being supporters to the FARCs. He's a damned odd man, who seems to think he's got all the firepower in the universe to stand behind whatever daffy little wormy idea he gets. It would be wonderful to see him learn otherwise in our lifetimes.

[Bacchus39]

86. no, the actual muderers should have to stand trial

n/t

[AlphaCentauri]

88. don't follow your logic

Saddam was hang because of his troop commit genocide, Milan Milutinovic was accused of genocide because his troops commit genocide, are you implying that the commander in chief is not responsible for the action of their troops?

Pinochet was in court for the same reasons and many others.

[Truth2Tell]

102. Saddam was hang

because of his troop have audacity to no more do bidding of foreign masters.

[Bacchus39]

108. paramilitaries and the FARC go well beyond the current administration

are you going to hold all of the other previous leaders of Colombia accountable over the past 40 years or just the current one?

its a non-issue though, there is not going to be any "court".

[AlphaCentauri]

110. can we make accountable every violance group including the government of Colombia?

justice has to be serve, it took some years to indict Pinochet, at this time Fujimori is in the process. Uribe's tieds to Pablo Escobar and general Narajo's brother say a lot of their moral values.

[Bacchus39]

113. yeah but I'm not going to get into a comparison of Uribe to Pinochet

violence was worse in previous administrations so maybe it would more appropriate to indict a previous Colombian leader if your going to throw out HYPOTHETICALS. there has been a fact a demobilization of the paramilitaries and of some of the smaller rebel groups.

there are enormous problems to come for whoever is Colombia's leader. there is no denying or ignoring or even defending these problems like some always do for a country that lies to the east of Colombia solely because they are infatuated with its leader.

[AlphaCentauri]

111. also see post #81

[EFerrari]

50. Thanks to Uribe's Bush worshipping, she may die before

they get her out. She's gravely ill.

[Bacchus39]

56. see post 54 above

n/t

[johnboy43]

52. good for u

I agree 100%... That spoiled porky Bozo Chavez is a joke among leaders of the world, and if not for the current oil demand he would be ignored completely. The Farc just runs and hides in Ecuador as if they have some invisible steel curtain protecting them less than a mile away from the horror they created...well the Columbian leader did the right thing if Ecuador is going to passively ignore the situation. The only reason Ecuador pulled its ambassador is to kiss Hugo's butt because of recent aid to the country. The moron Chavez is inviting the U.S to supply even more advanced weaponry( originally for drug lord purposes) and giving Bush a chance to indirectly get back at him for all his insults at the United Nations... I think Saddam Hussein did that once, and look where he is. hehehe .... I love Venezuela but can't stand Chavez. Colombia is completely within its rights. Hugo sucks!

[martymar64]

63. Take your Los Pepes bullshit and fuck off!

Just leave, you fascist bastard.

[fascisthunter]

90. Thank you for saying it for many of us on DU! (nt)

[Truth2Tell]

103. and look where he is. hehehe

Right. That whole Iraq thing is such a laugh riot. heheheheh.

Sicko.

[ArfDogMNO]

66. I am certain such calls are recorded by teh Colombian govt

"Correa noted he would send a group to investigated but that he was in solidarity with the Colombian government and the Colombian people, he lamented the loss of life but that he understood that the FARC often takes refuge in Ecuador after committing acts of terror in Colombia."

They really should release it. I have no doubt this is what Correa said initially (surprised, more than anything, I bet), then he got talking points from Chavez and others on how this could be used to great effect.

[ngant17]

11. FARC always comes back stronger each time

The recent photos I have seen of the FARC guerrillas in the field show a very professional-looking army in modern army uniforms. It's a long way from their origins as a ragtag band of insurgents who were forced into the jungle to survive after the rightwing death squads would not allow them to operate as a legal entity within the Columbian political state.

The Uribe government is desperate for some kind of ideological victory and it's playing the death of one FARC commander as some kind of hugh and irreplaceable loss of the FARC army. That's pretty pathetic.

There are about 18000 FARC guerrillas and other smaller groups who
can find plenty of personnel to replace their losses in the field at any given time. The death of one revolutionary soldier in South America will do no more to stop their struggle than the death of Che Guevara did to stop the advance of socialism in Latin America.

Only someone who is deperate for a victory against FARC would have found reason to celebrate. Nowdays, like it or not, FARC is a permanent part of Columbian society and its political representatives are far more qualified to run the country than any of the imperialist bootlickers of which Uribe is descended.

Without the US military and economic aid, Columbia would have internally collapsed as a right-wing dictatorship many decades ago. It is destined to fall. It's a matter of time before FARC attains the legitimacy it has always deserved on the political front.

[johnboy43]

58. Correa Chavez puppet

If the President from Ecuador would prevent peaceful asylum in his country from the murderous terrorist from Farc, then we wouldn't be having this discussion! Ecuador was a desirable destination before they got into bed with the spoiled brat from Venezuela...just as Bush will go down as the worst president in U.S history, so will Chavez in the lovely country of Venezuela...he has the people fooled for now but give him enough rope and he will hang himself... you will see in time I am right.

[AlphaCentauri]

69. who wants to invade Mexico? they are harboring FARC members

Injured FARC rebels treated in Ecuadorian army hospital


www.chinaview.cn 2008-03-04 09:46:20 Print

QUITO, March 3 (Xinhua) -- Three FARC rebels injured in Saturday's attack by Colombian armed forces on Ecuadorian territory received surgical treatment in an Ecuadorian army hospital, the country's Defense Minister Wellington Sandoval said Monday.

He said the guerrillas, two Colombian women and a 21-year-old Mexican woman, had been admitted to the hospital in northern Quito Sunday night.

The minister called the medical treatment a humanitarian act, adding that the Red Cross had visited the three rebels to ensure their human rights had not been violated.

Ecuador has boosted troop deployment on its Colombian border as a result of the incident.

"We have no aggressive intentions but we will defend ourselves appropriately," said Sandoval. He said he was in favor of strengthening the nation's armed forces so that they will be "a completely dissuasive force."

Sandoval also said that the bodies of the 15 rebels found on Sunday will be taken to Quito to be handed over to their families. He said he had visited the scene of the attack, and that photos of the scene showed Colombian helicopters had trespassed into Ecuadorian territory.

[ohio2007]

8. wag the dog nt

[Judi Lynn]

24. 3rd largest mouth gobbling U.S. taxpayers' foreign aid in the world. And what a bargain!

Dominion of Evil
Colombia's paramilitary terror
by Steven Ambrus
Amnesty International magazine, Spring 2007

Colombia's paramilitary demobilization is unearthing the staggering magnitude of paramilitary terror-and the unholy alliance of political, military and business leaders that sustained it.

In the early 1990s, a butcher named Rodrigo Mercado got fed up with paying protection money to Colombia's leftwing guerrillas. Unable to shake them off, he sought financing from ranchers, politicians and businessmen and raised a 350-man militia. Then he went on the rampage. People accused of leftist sympathies in the state of Sucre were shot. Others were carved to bits with chainsaws, buried in mass graves or fed to alligators. Mercado delighted in the killing, survivors say. Moreover, it provided benefits. As thousands of people fled, Mercado and his men seized control of local governments and acquired vast tracts of farmland and shoreline. Then they used their new possessions to dispatch boats loaded with cocaine to foreign markets.

"They were merciless," said Arnol Gómez, a community leader from the town of San Onofre. "They had so much power that no one could do business or run for office without their approval. Even the police supported them."

Today, after a decade of terror and destruction, an edgy calm has settled over the rolling grasslands and tin-patch towns where Mercado spent his fury. The warlord has been dead for more than a year, a victim of bloodletting in his ranks. His troops have fully demobilized through a 2003 peace deal between the government and a paramilitary umbrella group known as the United Self- Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC). Local farmers have returned to their tiny plots of plantains and corn. But criminal investigators are only now uncovering graves on Mercado's abandoned farms. And with hundreds of people dead and hundreds more still missing in Sucre, the painful process of uncovering the truth about what happened there and in other areas of paramilitary control is just getting underway. For the first time, Colombians are confronting the immense dimensions of the paramilitary terror that has gripped their country for four decades, and the unholy alliance of military, business and political leaders that propelled it forward.

"Colombia is at a crossroads after years in which the paramilitaries infiltrated the world of legitimate business and the agencies of local and national government," said Iván Cepeda, the son of a left-wing senator who was murdered in 1994 by an alliance of military and paramilitary operatives. "Colombia will either become a nation of laws and democratic institutions or sink further into violence, authoritarianism and the denial of basic rights."

In 2005, Colombia's Congress passed the "Justice and Peace" law governing the demobilization, trial and reintegration of 31,000 AUC combatants, including commanders accused of war crimes and drug trafficking. Harshly criticized by human rights groups and the United Nations, the law allows paramilitary leaders to serve reduced sentences of eight years on special farms and contains loopholes likely to let top commanders keep millions of hectares of stolen land.

More:
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Colombia/Dominion_Evil.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
posted November 6, 2003 (web only)
Colombia and Human Rights
Nina Englander

"We will not raise our children for war," is the oft-repeated statement of the Popular Women's Organization (OFP), a group in Barrancabermeja, Colombia, that works with displaced communities to defend human rights. Yet an outspoken commitment to protect one's children can be enough to become a target of Colombia's violent political war.

On October 16, Esperanza Amaris Miranda, a leading member of the OFP, was abducted from her home in Barrancabermeja and murdered. In the past, Miranda had denounced paramilitary threats before the federal prosecutor. According to the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Right's office, she was killed by three members of the paramilitary group Bloque Central Bolívar, an organization with documented ties to the Colombian military.

Murder and abduction of social activists in Colombia is not uncommon. In the town of Barrancabermeja alone, there have been ninety-four assassinations and fifty-six kidnappings this year. Throughout the country, there were 6,978 murders, disappearances or combat deaths as a result of political violence between July 1, 2002 and June 30, 2003. The Colombian Trade Union Congress estimates that in 2002, 172 trade unionists were killed, 164 received death threats and 132 were arbitrarily detained by authorities. Paramilitary groups, with the support of the Colombian armed forces, carried out many of these attacks.

Despite the extremely dangerous climate for social activism, the Colombian government continues to blatantly disregard human rights. Recent inflammatory statements by President Alvaro Uribe drive this point home. Speaking on September 8 before leaders of the armed forces at the inauguration of the new head of the airforce, Uribe condemned human rights defenders as terrorist sympathizers and cowards. He derided unspecified groups for supporting terrorism "under the pretext of defending human rights," and for hiding "their political ideas behind human rights." He called human rights workers "spokespeople" for terrorists, and he challenged them to "take off their masks."

More:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20031124/englander

[Pavulon]

27. 1st largest gobbler of Venezuelan tar..

hugo is in dangerous waters. guys in a red shirt backing communist rebels in a neighboring state has always been hazardous in LA.

[Judi Lynn]

28. Maybe you could give an example of what you're attempting to say. We're not psychic. n/t

[Pavulon]

30. A brief look at US history

in latin america, across ALL past presidencies speaks for its self. Every one has authorized CIA operations in Latin America.

What I said is obvious. Venezuela starting a war with colombia does not serve US interests.

[High Plains]

31. Wow, wave that flag of imperalism proudly!

It must be our, uh, manifest destiny to control the entire hemisphere, right?

[Pavulon]

32. Reality

accept it or ignore it. The us, like others, acts on the world stage to serve its interests.

We can debate the actions past and present, but not the fact that this has been US policy. It will continue to be US policy under ANY administration.

[AlphaCentauri]

70. your support for that policy its your own decision, murder is not a moral value.

[Judi Lynn]

33. "What I said is obvious. Venezuela starting a war with colombia does not serve US interests."

Complete, nonsensical gibberish!

[Pavulon]

34. Any open conflict

between those nations does not serve US interests. No matter who "starts" it. You, of all posters, should be aware of the LONG RUNNING events that underpin this conflict. You should know the history of the FARC and why colombia is killing them.

US overt involvement in ANY la conflict does not serve our interests either.

This did not start yesterday.

There is a 30 year reality going on here. You can ignore it or accept it.

[Judi Lynn]

36. It's over FIFTY years old. But you knew that.

US overt involvement in ANY la conflict does not serve our interests either.

Don't use the word "our" so freely. Makes you sound simple. People of principle are at odds with people who are simply looking out for their own immediate satisfaction, at everyone else's expense.

[Pavulon]

41. Longer

but in the context of farc 30 is about right. Before the OSS existed we have been steering events in LA.

Our meaning a very long running policy maintained by every administration. A policy no administration has seen fit to change.

This runs back to the panama days.

[Truth2Tell]

105. So because no administration has seen fit

to change our policy in LA, that justifies it in some way for you?

[ohio2007]

37. Chavez Orders Embassy Closed in Colombia

snip

Chavez told his defense minister: "move 10 battalions for me to the border with Colombia, immediately."

snip

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3206472&mesg_id=3206553



http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=29d_1204429349
got to rally the population behind the president for life cuz it's on. Hugo's just waiting for a miscommunication

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O-4sdm7UFk

[Peace Patriot]

38. "Venezuela starting a war with Colombia"? Good to know what the WaPo/Rumsfeld

line is going to be. Thanks, Pavulon! So, the fascist thugs that Rumsfeld wants the U.S. to "act swiftly" in support of, in South America, are the fascist thugs in Colombia, who have been overstepping the Venezuelan border, and causing incidents, and engaging in drugs/weapons trafficking, for some time (not to mention plotting to assassinate Chavez--something Uribe had to apologize for!), and are now venturing over Ecuador's border, and killing people (whose identity we have only their lying word for)--and it's not necessarily the fascist thugs within Venezuela (and also Bolivia), which I had initially surmised. And Rumsfeld is going to blame Venezuela! Aha!

Can you tell us any more? Will Bush "act swiftly" ordering U.S. troops to "defend" Colombia? Or will Rumsfeld have to rely on his rightwing paramilitary death squad "friends and allies" and Blackwater mercenaries in Colombia to start this war?

I've now got this figured for around election time, in November. Am I right? I still haven't found out what the date is for Ecuador throwing the Bush/U.S. military base out of their country, cuz I was kinda thinking they'd act before that date. But November would be beautiful, from the point of view of war profiteers and Exxon Mobil. Nice fly trap for a Democratic presidential candidate. Are you on the inside, Pavulon? Do tell. When is this Bushite show gonna be on TV?

[Pavulon]

40. Gee. Considering we have been down there

since the OSS was around swift is not the word you are looking for..

All the actions you listed are FARC methods.

This is simple because it is cyclical. A quick read of us actions in LA, much of which has been declassified, sheds light on current affairs.

I dont think bush is steering this ship.

[ngant17]

44. FARC is fighting a dictatorship

and the only reasonable criticism you can give them is that they refuse to be assassinated en masse without a fight. That is because it's essentially a civil war inside Columbia. FARC appears to have learned the art of warfare (and defense) rather well in the jungles of Columbia. I believe in time they can and they will attain political power and instigate a more eglatarian society, and in that regard, more power to them. It's good that honorable men like Chavez can help steer FARC in the right direction by setting a positive and working example of his socialist Bolivarian society in the neighboring country of Venezuela.

The oligarchy of Columbia will have to be put on trail for their war crimes, and this will have to include Uribe, before there can be any sense of normalcy in Columbia again. Uribe of course will run to the US of A and hide from justice, like many other of his ilk have done before.

Read their history! FARC has tried all civilized and non-violent means of attaining political power. FARC is doing what any rational group of people would have to do, given no other option but to survive and to ultimately attain legitimacy for the majority of Columbians.

In Latin America, it can be predicted that the oligarchy will never peacefully give up their power. Look what happened in Chile, in Guatemala, in Argentina, the list is all quite predictable. In time they will have to be judged for the war criminals they are. And they should be worried because time is not on their side anymore.

[Pavulon]

45. Not very probable

the FARC, an armed wing of a communist party, uses tactics that make it a military target.

Communism is a failed model.

[ngant17]

49. What is it in socialism that you don't see

taking place in South America? It's always a failure when the CIA can sponsor and finance the coups against it (i.e., Allende, Arbenz, et. al), but it's never a failure when the democratic people chose to defend themselves by force of arms, which is why the membership of FARC has not been disappeared yet, it has in fact grown to a fearsome enemy of the Columbia oligarchy.

And no doubt you would love a new Operation Condor, I'm sure you would champion it as your example of robust "nation-building" (the tortured, dead bodies are soon forgotten).

The reason the USA can not overthrow communist China is because the PRC chose to defend itself from imperialist aggression from the outset, it militarized its society, and now the US is forced to respect it as any other nation. I'm certain the same will be said of FARC one day.

[hack89]

51. Considering that the Chinese government killed and repressed

millions of its citizens, one is led to believe that the largest threat to the Chinese communist party is the Chinese themselves. Do you really believe that the communist party would be ruling if not for the ever present police state apparatus that pervades China?

We can respect China as a sovereign nation due to their military power - considering that the "democratic people" have no say in how they are ruled, I don't see how it applies to the FARC. Unless of course, you approve of the methods of the Chinese government.

[ngant17]

64. I approve of the Chinese proletariat

and they have done an outstanding job of protecting their population against imperialism. It could not have been done without militarizing their society. That is how nations are created and survive. That is called politics. You can't have politics without rifles and guns.

China did not overthrow the class system of the Servitude Epoch simply to create an Orwellian nightmare, nor to "share the poverty," but instead to create hugh amounts of goods and services of the most advanced nature.

The only real possibility for humanity is to create a society world-wide where each person contributes what he/she can and is rewarded as he/she wishes. It is possible and essential, but it only can happen if we create an altruistic mental template in society that can only be made permanent by the vast increase in productive capability which will make selfishness anachronistic; an increase the advanced capitalist countries have achieved. And, in the case of China, the vast increase which we project to be extant there by 2050.

While this is taking place, the Gringo command in Washington has accelerated the process of realigning the world's industrial powers to put the People's Republic of China in a position no one of us could have realistically hoped for 8 or 10 years ago, including putting Communist China in the position of a responsible equal leader with other responsible states (of the capitalist persuasion) internationally! Remember how the Bush fascists started out so provocatively against China? Now the Chinese leadership has stepped-up to the plate in ways they never would have done six years ago – because the imbeciles in Washington dropped their sheep’s clothing and exposed their plans for naked aggression.

The blatant obviousness of the Gringo Regime's strategic planning for world domination has forced the Chinese Communist Party’s leadership to do something it had not wanted to do; that is to take the lead in forming a de facto Global Socialist Alliance of China, Cuba, Vietnam-Laos and progressive countries like Venezuela, Brazil, and even Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Educador. –And now, China has fielded a strategic nuclear tipped ICBM carrying submarine fleet, far earlier than they would have done had Washington not exposed their plans for world conquest. Finally, Washington has scared the living daylights out of those who had thrown in their lot with their would-be "puppet masters" such as the Uribe trafficker-industrialist clique in Bogotá, Colombia. And, these types, if they are smart, would be back treading as quickly as they can from their ill thought out earlier commitments.

Uribe had been on the DEA’s "most wanted" list until he was suborned by the CIA in a deal where he was to be used against all the guerilla forces in the Americas. Unfortunately he is now stuck between a rock and a hard place. I think he will throw in the towel soon and 'escape' to the USA. He is too much of a coward to face the enemy on his own terms. At least Sadaam Hussein was not afraid to face his enemies on their own terms!

But to return to the topic of China, I think we have to closely analyze the details of China’s reforms since 1976 – that is, the past 30 years, and it will be an increasingly complex and detailed balancing act, and is beyond what we could grasp in a few posts on this forum.

[hack89]

83. You support non-democratic, one party police states?

Wow - you certainly have a pervert sense of democracy.

BTW - how do you explain the Chinese embrace of capitalism and the huge gap between rich and poor?

[ngant17]

92. you can try to read my previous post for starters

The Communist Party of China is using the free market system, but it isn't abandoning its socialist revolution.

Also I would avoid relying on the rightwing mass media and especially spewing their propaganda here.

As a good start, I suggest using the Gini coefficient of an unbaised measure of income inequality.

Yes, the PRC does have a high Gini coefficient (UN stats), around 46.9. Latin American countries tend to go higher. However wealth inequality in the United States has a Gini coefficient almost equal to China's, so why aren't you mentioning this, too?

http://twofish.wordpress.com/2006/07/27/china-and-the-gini-coefficient/
One thing that people talk about a lot is China’s huge Gini coefficient and the gap between rich and poor. The interesting thing is that statistically China does have a huge Gini coefficient, but if you go to China, the gap, while there, seems to be much less than the gaps for Africa, India, and Latin America. It turns out that there is an interesting fact, which never rarely gets mentioned. Within a given area, the Gini coefficient is quite low. The huge Gini coefficient is almost completely the result of the difference in income between rural and urban areas. However, I wonder in comparing China with say Peru, even that is misleading since Chinese peasants have a secure claim to future income from land, whereas Peruvian peasants, generally don’t.

[hack89]

97. But China is a repressive police state, no?

are you saying that the Chinese people enjoy all the freedoms you do?

[Truth2Tell]

106. But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao

You ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow ...

[bitchkitty]

71. I think I know you.

Did you used to post on Salon's Table Talk as Rosetta Stone? Or Black Dog Bone?

[ngant17]

93. If you're referring to me, no

I'm not aware of my posting showing up there, however this is the internet and it's possible for anything that anyone has posted can show up somewhere else. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

[bitchkitty]

94. No, not referring to you.

I was speaking to Pavulon.

[Pavulon]

104. No..

Never posted there. Salon is a great site.

[Judi Lynn]

73. Just discovered info. on Colombia under Uribe which certainly deserves a long hard squint:

Under Uribe, The Dark Side of Colombia
RODRIGO ACUÑA
Wednesday, April 18, 2007



WHY IS THIS MAN SMILING?
Despite a speckled past, Colombian President
Álvaro Uribe Vélez sailed into a second term
of office. Photo: AP

A recent article by Paul Richter and Greg Miller in the Los Angeles Times has again brought international attention on Colombian President Álvaro Uribe Vélez. At the center of the LA Times article is a leaked report from the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), which claims that Colombian army chief General Mario Montoya and a paramilitary group carried out an operation against Marxist rebels in 2002, that left 14 people dead and 'dozens more disappeared in its aftermath.'

Given the nature of the activities of paramilitary groups in Colombia and Uribe's 'long and close association' with Montoya, the revelation adds to a scandal which, Richter and Miller say, 'already has implicated the country's former Foreign Minister, at least one State Governor, legislators and the head of the national police.'

Bush considers Uribe a “personal friend” and one of his closest allies in Latin America. However, Uribe’s other relationships include Colombia's drug cartels and paramilitaries.

The Colombian President's papá, Alberto Uribe Sierra, may not have set the best example. During the 1970s, Uribe Sierra lived in a middle-class neighborhood in the Colombian city of Medellín and was heavily in debt. However, as Forrest Hylton notes in his excellent history, Evil Hour in Colombia, by a 'strange reversal of fortune' Uribe Sierra became a 'political broker, real-estate intermediary, and recognized trafficker.'

Having also become a huge cattle rancher, Uribe Sierra was part of a group of narco-speculators who purchased cheap land where Left-wing guerrillas were active. In 1983, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia — the guerrilla group commonly known by their Spanish acronym FARC — decided to pay Uribe Sierra a visit and he was killed after a failed kidnapping attempt. When the younger Uribe became aware of his father's death, according to Hylton, he flew to his father's ranch in the private helicopter of Medellín's cocaine kingpin Pablo Escobar.

Escobar and Uribe Sierra had become good friends after the latter had been involved in 'fund raising' for a project known as 'Medellín without slums' — most likely another one of Escobar's countless scams to launder his huge empire's drug money.

Álvaro Uribe entered politics at the age of 26 when he was elected mayor of Medellín in 1982 — a payback for his father helping finance the campaign of Belisario Betancur, President of Colombia from 1982 to 1986. Sacked after three months for what Tom Feiling, writing in New Internationalist, termed his 'ties to the drug Mafia,' Uribe then became Director of Civil Aviation and 'issued pilots' licences to Pablo Escobar's fleet of light aircraft flying cocaine to Florida. ' Feiling goes on to report that:

In 1995 Uribe became Governor of his home province of Antioquia … Private security services and paramilitary death squads enjoyed immunity from prosecution under Governor Uribe and were free to launch a campaign of terror. Thousands of trade unionists, students and human rights workers were murdered, disappeared or driven out of the province.

http://nylatinojournal.com/home/eagles_in_fall,_lions_in_spring/analysis/under_uribe,_the_dark_side_of_colombia.html

More:

[AlphaCentauri]

79. here is a video for those who know sign language

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTGz-hMc8RU&feature=related

[Judi Lynn]

81. Oh, COOL! I watched part of it and saw them hold up this article, which I just went and found:

BLACKLIST TO THE A LIST
ONCE DEEMED A BAD GUY, URIBE IS NOW A TOP ALLY
By BY JOSEPH CONTRERAS AND STEVEN AMBRUS | NEWSWEEK
Aug 9, 2004 Issue

The declassified defense Department intelligence report, dated September 1991, reads like a Who's Who of Colombia's cocaine trade. The list includes the Medellin cartel's kingpin, Pablo Escobar, and more than 100 other thugs, assassins, traffickers and shady lawyers in his alleged employ. Then there's entry 82: "Alvaro Uribe Velez--a Colombian politician and senator dedicated to collaboration with the Medellin cartel at high government levels. Uribe was linked to a business involved in narcotics activities in the U.S.... Uribe has worked for the Medellin cartel and is a close personal friend of Pablo Escobar Gaviria." Escobar died in a 1993 police raid. Two years ago this week, Uribe became president of Colombia.

Washington loves him. In a two-page written statement, the Colombian president's office denied that Uribe had links of any kind to a U.S. business, as described in the 1991 report. (The list was obtained by the National Security Archive, an independent U.S. research group.) But the statement did not address the allegations that Uribe had worked for the Medellin cartel and was Escobar's close friend. It may be that Uribe thinks his recent actions speak louder than denials: in the last two years, Colombia has extradited 140 accused traffickers to the United States--a figure unmatched by any previous president. "This is probably one of the most pro-American presidents in Latin America's entire history," says Adam Isacson, at the Center for International Policy in Washington.

Still, questions persist. Uribe has been talking peace with outlawed right-wing paramilitaries. These groups began in self-defense against an out-of-control Marxist guerrilla movement, yet they supported themselves via the drug trade. After winning office on a pledge to stop leftist guerrillas, Uribe is now offering leniency to paramilitaries who renounce trafficking and disarm. "Some of these people don't even have anti-guerrilla credentials," says Isacson. "They're just drug traffickers who've bought their way into the paramilitary movement as a way to claim political status, legitimize their fortunes and walk free." Most Colombians seem unconcerned. With the president's approval ratings hovering above 70 percent, he's likely to get a constitutional amendment later this year to let him run again in 2006--and win.

© 2004 Newsweek, Inc.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/54793

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Then they showed this title:

Narco-Candidate in Colombia
Uribe Velez, Favourite for President, and his narco-links

by Al Giordano
Narco News
March 20, 2002

A Narco News Investigative Report

In 1997 and 1998, alert U.S. Customs agents in California seized three suspicious Colombia-bound ships that, the agents discovered, were laden with 50,000 kilos of potassium permanganate, a key "precursor chemical" necessary for the manufacture of cocaine.

According to a document signed by then-DEA chief Donnie R. Marshall on August 3, 2001, the ships were each destined for Medellin, Colombia, to a company called GMP Productos Quimicos, S. A. (GMP Chemical Products).

The 50,000 kilos of the precursor chemical destined for GMP were enough to make half-a-million kilos of cocaine hydrochloride, with a street value of $15 billion U.S. dollars.

The owner of GMP Chemical Products, according to the 2001 DEA chief's report, is Pedro Juan Moreno Villa, the campaign manager, former chief of staff, and longtime right-hand-man for front-running Colombian presidential candidate Alvaro Uribe Velez.

Mr. Moreno was Uribe's political alter-ego before, during and after those nervous 1997 and 1998 months when he awaited those contraband shipments.

When Uribe was governor of the state of Antioquia from 1995 to 1997 - from its capitol of Medellin - Moreno was chief of staff in Governor Uribe's office. During those years, according to then-DEA chief Marshall, ""Between 1994 and 1998, GMP was the largest importer of potassium permanganate into Colombia."

More:
http://www.zmag.org/content/Colombia/giordano_uribe.cfm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh, STOP! You're killing me! The next material they mentioned was a book written by Pablo Escobar's former mistress, Virginia Vallejo. Here's a review of her book:

‘That Blessed Lad’: Why Drug Lord Pablo Escobar Idolised the Colombian President
by Francesc Relea
October 17, 2007

The figure of the drug trafficker, Pablo Escobar, struck down 14 years ago, still buffets the Colombian political class. Virginia Vallejo of 57 years, lover and fiancée for five years of the head of the Medellín Cartel, the most powerful criminal organisation that has existed in Colombia, has broken a long silence to speak of the past and the present of her country. In the book, ‘Loving Pablo, Hating Escobar’ (Amando a Pablo, Odiando a Escobar), Vallejo attacks prominent political leaders, attributing to them intimate links with the drug lord. A refugee in the United States expecting to obtain political asylum, Virginia Vallejo gave El Pais a long interview, the first since leaving Colombia more than a year ago. Having disappeared from the scene for more than a decade, in which gossip and rumour of the worst kind proliferated, the television presenter, reporter, model and actress, returns to the arena as an inconvenient witness for the Colombian politicians. The President, Álvaro Uribe Vélez, has swiftly rejected the accusations in Vallejo’s book.

“The narco-State dreamt of by Pablo Escobar is today more relevant than ever in Colombia,” says the diva of the Eighties. “The narco-traffickers prospered in Colombia not because they were geniuses but because the presidents were very cheap,” says Vallejo, and mentions three names as narco-Presidents: Alfonso López Michelsen, Ernesto Samper and Álvaro Uribe. Of the current Colombian President, Álvaro Uribe, Vallejo says that the chief of the Medellin Cartel idolised him. She states that the (Colombian) leader, as director of civil aeronautics (1980-1982), “granted dozens of licences for landing strips and hundreds for aircraft and helicopters on which the drug trafficking infrastructure was built”. “Pablo used to say: ‘if it were not for that blessed lad, we’d have to be swimming till Miami to reach the drugs to the gringos. Now, with our own strips, nobody can stop us. Own strips, own aircraft, own helicopters…’ They reached the merchandise till Cayo Norman, in the Bahamas, operational headquarters of Carlos Lehder (co-founder of the Medellín Cartel), and from there to Miami without problems”. Vallejo is ready to defend publicly and through a lie detector everything written and stated.

“When I met Pablo I did not know he has so much money. I found out through Forbes and Fortune magazines that they put him as the seventh richest person in the world,” says Vallejo. Another episode that illustrates the supposed links between Uribe and Escobar is the death of Alberto Uribe Sierra, the President’s father, in 1983 at the hands of a FARC guerrilla squad. “Pablo loved dear Alvaro very much,” explains Escobar’s former fiancée. “When FARC killed Uribe’s father in a kidnap attempt, Pablo send them a helicopter to collect the remains. His brother Santiago was bleeding. He was in a farm far from Medellín, where there wasn’t any helicopter or aviation infrastructure of any sort. Pablo gave the order to send the helicopter. He told me this a few days later. He felt that death very much. He felt very sad. He told me: ‘Anyone who thinks that this is an easy business is very wrong. This is a trail of deaths. Every day we have to bury friends, partners and relatives.’ He told me that he too would be one of the dead and asked me if I was prepared to write his story”.

According to the National Security Archive, a group of non-governmental researchers based at the George Washington University, Álvaro Uribe was a close friend of Pablo Escobar who collaborated with the Medellín Cartel. The same group of researchers put out a list of the most important Colombian drug traffickers in 1991 produced by the U.S. intelligence services in which Escobar occupied the 79th place and Uribe 82nd.

More:
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=14063

And I'm only half way through the video link you posted. I'm coming back to look at these links later, as I still need to study them.

Thank you, so much!

[Peace Patriot]

47. "Swift" is Rumsfeld's word. nt

[Pavulon]

67. This has been going on

before rumsfeld was in the navy, before he was born. Complex subjects require complex reading.

Read up on panamanian history.

[AlphaCentauri]

72. I see what your are saying: US interventions in latin america

http://www2.truman.edu/~marc/resources/interventions.html

Before the present administration other republicans and democratic administrations intervened in latin america, that's true.

[Judi Lynn]

74. Good list. Thanks for posting this. n/t

[AlphaCentauri]

75. it's not complete, it misses the mexican war n/t

[Pavulon]

85. the USSR had a list too

very hot cold war was fought there. You could spend a lifetime reading on this topic.

[AlphaCentauri]

87. bring that list, hope it will start before 1821 in latin america

we all know of those interventions

[AlphaCentauri]

77. BTW Mcain is from Panama, right?

[Judi Lynn]

29. Regional tensions on the rise after Colombia raid into Ecuador

Regional tensions on the rise after Colombia raid into Ecuador
03-01-2008, 14h37
BOGOTA (AFP)

Tensions between Colombia, Ecuador and Venezuela reached a new high Sunday after Bogota launched a cross-border raid into Ecuador, killing the second-ranking official of Colombia's largest leftist rebel group.

Raul Reyes of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) was killed Saturday in an air raid conducted by Colombian forces on a jungle camp located on the Ecuadoran side of the common border.

In response, Ecuadoran President Rafael Correa recalled his country's ambassador to Bogota "for consultations" and warned the action might result in "ultimate consequences" because of "the offense" suffered by his country.

As a result of the "very difficult situation" Correa canceled a visit that had been planned for Cuba on Monday and Ecuador's foreign ministry said it had lodged a formal protest with Bogota demanding an explanation.

More:
http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=217757
Also: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23309142-5005961,00.html

[Judi Lynn]

43. Colombian raid angers Ecuador

Colombian raid angers Ecuador
By Jean-Luc Porte in Bogota
March 03, 2008 10:12am
Article from: Agence France-Presse

VENEZUELA and Ecuador have moved their armies to the Colombian border and shut down their embassies in Bogota, as tensions soar over Colombia's cross-border killing of a top Colombian FARC rebel in Ecuador.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said he was sending troops, tanks and fighter aircraft to his country's border with Colombia.

"Mr Defence Minister (Gustavo Rangel), send 10 batallions at once to the border with Colombia! Tank units, military aviation get moving!" Mr Chavez said during his weekly Alo Presidente television and radio program.

Mr Chavez's fiery words followed a Colombian army raid on Saturday on a jungle camp just inside Ecuador of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC), the country's largest leftist rebel group.

The attack killed FARC's second-in-command Raul Reyes.

Mr Chavez said Ecuador "is moving troops to its northern border (with Colombia).'"

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23309477-38199,00.html

[Bacchus39]

60. Chavez pays tribute dead scum bag FARC leader

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/02/AR2008030200773.html

Chávez had warm words for Devia, who had joined the FARC in the 1970s and was wanted by the Colombian government for drug trafficking and murder. Chávez recalled that the two first met in 1995, three years before his election as president, and that they met twice after he took office.

The president asked for a minute of silence for Devia, who was better known by his nom de guerre, Raúl Reyes. "We pay tribute to a good revolutionary, who was Raúl Reyes," he said.

[ohio2007]

65. Colombia says FARC documents show Chavez funding

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N03460146.htm
I'm sure the $300 million was used to free the hostages.


or
to fund an army in waiting ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bDY0DfEjmo&feature=related

Table for Hugo...

party of one

[AlphaCentauri]

78. Colombia is a state with many problems to solve and little has been done.

On the other hand never go to Colombia, there, if you are a communist the government will kill you, if you look like a communist they'll kill you too, if you question the elites then you look like a communist and you know what happened. if you are a drug addict don't worry narco lords in the government do free home shipping and the last one, you could be kidnap by the FARC.

[Bacchus39]

84. I've been there a half dozen times

never had a problem and found it to be a fascinating country. I'm not a communist though.

[AlphaCentauri]

89. So then what is all that scare about colombia?, propaganda? n/t

[ohio2007]

98. Colombia-Venezuela trade comes to a halt

Trade between Colombia and Venezuela stopped on Monday until further notice, as Venezuelan customs services at three border offices were suspended, according to freighters and witnesses, Reuters reported.


snip

http://english.eluniversal.com/2008/03/04/en_colcd_art_colombia-venezuela-t_04A1406559.shtml


The scare is all in Venezuela. Looks like the Venezuela farmers have been cut off from selling their produce over the border for a profit let alone to keep pace with inflation. I think Hugo called them traitors so his propaganda machine will start to get farmers fuming.

[AlphaCentauri]

99. I see, economics have to be our way not your way

why do farmers have to sell their stuff outside of the country?
anyone wants to induce a food shortage by offering them more money?

[ohio2007]

115. You must have missed the old articles about Hugo plan to nationalize farms

Farmers can't get enough for their products to purchase feed for livestock. Thats why they were selling outside the country. The old "stop selling cheese and chocolate across the border" articles.They'll be back in the news imo

[Bacchus39]

107. typically, only bad news is publicized about Colombia

you simply don't hear much good in the press. however, think about the trade issue that was just mentioned. if it were so horrible in Colombia would you expect Colombia to enjoy the positive trade balance they have with Venezuela and Ecuador?

there is much more to Colombia than the paramilitaries, drugs, and the FARC.

[AlphaCentauri]

109. maybe the US aid is subsidizing Colombia's economy

add the millions of dollar the american people expend on drugs every year, take out those two forms of income and you'll see a country in real misery.

[classysassy]

62. The war

criminal,(Bush family thug),and his oil pals are out to get Chavez.

[fascisthunter]

91. Right Wingers Hate Chavez

man is he a thorn in their sides. GOOD! Fuck fascism.... bring back some socialism and the true Democratic way! Fuck profiteers and their BS "Free Market" racket!

[AlphaCentauri]

96. RWs are bleeding very badly

I just read some of their post and they stink.

[Judi Lynn]

116. Slain rebel 'sought talks with Sarkozy'

Slain rebel 'sought talks with Sarkozy'
From correspondents in Bogota
March 05, 2008 03:44am
Article from: Agence France-Presse

COLOMBIAN rebel leader Raul Reyes had been trying to arrange talks with French President Nicolas Sarkozy at the time he was killed in an Ecuadoran jungle camp, the insurgent group FARC said in a statement.

Reyes "died trying to arrange, with the help of (Venezuelan President Hugo) Chavez, talks with President Sarkozy," the statement said.

Reyes, the number two leader of he Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) group, was killed Saturday by Colombian troops in a cross border raid, prompting an diplomatic and military crisis that has threatened to engulf much of Latin America in conflict.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23322528-401,00.html

[ohio2007]

117. Sold out by Sarkozy

Colombia's rebels: A fading force?
The Colombian government says that the country's largest rebel group, the Farc has gone into irreversible decline, hit by desertions and the killings of high-profile members.

Speaking to a Colombian newspaper earlier this week, Defence Minister Juan Manuel Santos said the tough US-backed policy of President Alvaro Uribe was yielding results.

According to the government, the number of rebel fighters is down from 16,000 in 2001 to a current figure of 6,000-8,000.

snip

Intercepted communications

Three important Farc leaders were killed last year, and their deaths have shaken the Farc, resulting in a loss of morale, according to Mr Santos.

However, the effect of these killings has been felt in specific units, rather than throughout the Farc.

No members of the Farc's ruling body, the seven-man Secretariat, have ever been killed or captured and they continue to run the operations of the Farc's seven divisions or blocs.
snip
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7217817.stm

oooops

looks like this five week old article put the whammy on that "no member of the ruling body" got whacked record
go figger

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7273320.stm