Chavez sends tanks to Colombia border in dispute

[maddezmom]

Source: Reuters

CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuela President Hugo Chavez ordered tank battalions to the Colombian border on Sunday after Colombian troops struck inside another of its neighbors, Ecuador, in an attack on rebels.


He also ordered the shutting of Venezuela's embassy in Colombia and the withdrawal of all diplomatic staff in the dispute, warning Colombia's actions could spark a war in South America


Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080302/wl_nm/venezuela_colombia_dc

---

Chavez orders embassy closed in Colombia

CARACAS, Venezuela - President Hugo Chavez ordered Venezuela's embassy in Colombia closed and told the military to send 10 battalions to the border after Colombian troops killed a top rebel leader.

Chavez told his defense minister: "move 10 battalions for me to the border with Colombia, immediately." He ordered the Venezuelan Embassy in Bogota closed and said all embassy personnel would be withdrawn.

The announcements by Venezuela's leftist leader pushed relations to their tensest point of his nine-year presidency, and Chavez warned that Colombia could spark a war in South America.

He called the U.S.-allied government in Bogota "a terrorist state" and labeled President Alvaro Uribe "a criminal."


more:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080302/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/venezuela_colombia;_ylt=AuSSvzCc8a5dZc2cYZfw8_pw24cA

[Hydra]

1. So are we going to rescue our "poor friends" in Colombia

When they violate Venezuela's borders? Hmm, I guess if we can't have Iran yet, we'll do this first!

[jasmine621]

58. As are heads are burried under primary hysteria, this and Gaza

are being ignored. the candidates really need to be asked about BOTH situations, where they stand and what would they do?

[EFerrari]

97. Very bad news from Gaza this morning on Amy Goodman's show.

Very bad. :(

[Pavulon]

2. Ok, lets see how this is defended..

an obvious escalation by hugo. Like the russians used to do in east germany, posturing by threat of attack.

But he gives oil to the poor so he must ok, right?

[killbotfactory]

3. This is an escalation?

What do you call cross-border raids by Columbia?

[Pavulon]

4. Into Venezuela

I was not aware that had happened. It appears Ecuador and Colombia have discussed the incident.

"Sen. Barack Obama said on Wednesday the United States must be willing to strike al Qaeda targets inside Pakistan"

Seems chavez is working to increase the value of his only commodity. Oil.

[High Plains]

6. Yes, they have "discussed" it. Ecuador is not happy.

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/international/5666159/Ecuador-slams-Colombian-incursion

Ecuador slams Colombian incursion
Published: Sunday 02 March 2008 09:46 UTC
Last updated: Sunday 02 March 2008 14:46 UTC
Bogotá - Ecuador has lodged a formal complaint with neighbouring Colombia after Colombian troops killed 17 FARC guerrillas inside Ecuador. Among those killed is Raúl Reyes, the rebel group's second in command.

Ecuador's president, Rafael Correa, voiced outrage and threatened serious measures. He also spoke out against Colombian President Alvaro Uribe, who he said had denied the incursion in a telephone conversation. After the incursion, Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez warned of war if the Colombian military pursues FARC rebels into Venezuelan territory.

The death of the FARC's number two, who was to replace FARC leader Manuel Marulenda, has caused widespread unrest. Observers say his killing is likely to hamper efforts to free hostages the rebels could retaliate.

[High Plains]

7. And what does Barack's war-mongering have to do with anything?

[Pavulon]

9. Context is pretty clear.

Colombia just made a strike to kill a terrorist inside the border of another nation.

Not calling it correct.

[High Plains]

11. Luis Posada Carriles is a terrorist residing in the US right now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Posada_Carriles

So, if Cuba decides to assasinate him in Miami?

Not calling it correct, of course.

[Pavulon]

13. Cuba has run operations in the US

they have been caught doing it and admitted it. Obviously they have dont plenty they have not admitted.

This is a reality, and must be accepted.

[High Plains]

16. So, if they assassinate Carilles in Miami, we just lodge a protest?

Because, after all, it's just business as usual in the shadowy underworld of real politics?

[Pavulon]

17. If he gets hit by a car

and winds up dead, well that shit happens. What can be proven? If his car blows up, then there is a different issue.

[AlphaCentauri]

49. some of these man were not hit by a car

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2000-04-20/news/mullin/

"When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." –Dom Helder Camara

[happyslug]

46. Intelligence actions, espionage, Spying but NO MILITARY ACTIONS

Remember the issue is NOT that Colombians are in Ecuador, but that they did an military/Police action in Ecuador. People Crossing borders happen all the time, it is when you BREAK the law of the country that your troops are in that there is trouble. Here not only did Columbia CROSS into Ecuador, it was a DELIBERATE crossing of the Border to do an act that is illegal under Ecuadorian law (i.e. kill someone, when you are NOT the Ecuador Police or Military).

I have NEVER read of Castro sending people to KILL people in the US, to gather evidence, to spy on them and to trick them in to returning to Cuba, but NEVER outright military actions on US Soil. Cuba do NOT even do it on Guantanamo, and that is ON Cuban Soil. Cuba Blockade Guantanamo, but no military action on the territory of Guantanamo.

[Pavulon]

120. Recently

cuban agents were convicted of providing information that lead to the deaths of pilots in unarmed aircraft attempting to look for refugees.

Cuba will not admit to these things. We declassify them, but many nations have done this. Including the cuban's model the USSR.

[SpikeTss]

25. Insane!

Colombia just made a strike to kill a terrorist inside the border of another nation.

This kind of behavior is only "normal" for people who have no respect whatsoever for international law.

It's normal for thugs and criminals.

[fascisthunter]

70. You Said It

Thank you, now I don't have to.

[ArfDogMNO]

127. Well, if you let a hostile armed group trying to take down your

neighbor's government use your territory, coordinate with you on local issues, then one might not be surprised when your neighbor attacks them in your territory.

Lesson - don't allow insurgents to use your land if you don't want you neighbor to come onto your land to kill them.

comment - it has been long reported (not just today) that farc coordinates with ecuador and venezuela on local and larger issues in areas they control.

[High Plains]

5. Chavez is putting the Colombians on notice.

Don't try that shit like you just pulled in Ecuador.

Wow, does Uribe think he's Bush or something? Violating the territorial integrity of whatever country he feels like?

[Pavulon]

8. This is US policy..

be it good or bad. FARC leader is dead.

"Sen. Barack Obama said on Wednesday the United States must be willing to strike al Qaeda targets inside Pakistan"

This is obviously an ongoing operation involving Venezuela, FARC, and others.

[High Plains]

10. Yes, it is US policy--and it is wrong.

We've spent, oh, three or four billion dollars propping up the Colombian police and military in the last few years. At first, it was described as part of the war on drugs. Then, after Sept 2001, Bush decided to broaden the justification for the intervention by turning it into the war on terror.

The US is intervening in a long-running civil conflict in Colombia, and our billions of dollars in aid help keep it simmering. Of course, our insatiable appetite for cocaine and our insistence on trying to prohibit the things we love to ingest help keep it going, too. I suspect all sides in Colombia are getting rich off drug prohibition.

Meanwhile, Bush and Uribe take it out on the poor peasants who grow coca to survive.

[Pavulon]

12. The FARC are not nice people

they are not peasants. Their methods make them a military target to colombia. The attacks on americans make them a target for American clandestine operations. IE we pay for them to die. Or we kill them without publicity.


This is much more complex than what you see now. It has at least three decades of complexity. This action has been ongoing.

Attacks on civilian population
Human Rights Watch considers that "the FARC-EPs continued use of gas cylinder mortars shows this armed group’s flagrant disregard for lives of civilians...gas cylinder bombs are impossible to aim with accuracy and, as a result, frequently strike civilian objects and cause avoidable civilian casualties."<56>


Assassination of three Americans
In March 1999, the FARC-EP killed three U.S. Native American rights activists, in Venezuelan territory after kidnapping them in Colombia. After initial denials and claims that these U.S. citizens were CIA agents, the FARC-EP subsequently admitted that this action was a mistake, and claimed that it would internally punish those responsible. International NGOs and observers have argued that the FARC would have yet to apply any serious punishment to those involved in the incident.

[High Plains]

14. I'm well aware of the FARC and their human rights violations.

I'm also well aware of the recent history of Colombia and the massacres by the armed forces and paramilitaries that make the FARC look like Mary Poppins by comparision.

"Their attacks on Americans"--other than the ugly incident you mention above, I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean the attacks on the mercenaries hired by the State Department to wage war in Colombia? I have some advice for them: Don't go to other people's countries and fuck with them, and they won't kill you.

[Pavulon]

18. Like I said

there is a clear US policy on communists in latin america. This has been policy for decades. This is not new. Unless someone begins to fund the movement the time for USSR style communism has expired. It is just a matter of time.

All our agreements from 1962 are just about to expire.

[Zhade]

31. Slavery lasted a long time, too.

Going to defend that next?

[Pavulon]

43. Please..

that is LAME...And lazy.

Was not defending anything in the previous posts. But for the record I have no problem with the government assisting those who wish to stop communists in their country. The FARC are not nice people, they are not innocent farmers.

The soviet model failed. It oppressed people and nations.

Do you have another proposal? How should the US protect its interest? You think chavez is working on the best interest of the US?

Maybe things just are the way they were for the last 50 years with no one doing anything?

[subsuelo]

61. so what this comes down to is you defending the fight against communism

Am I right or wrong on that

[Pavulon]

117. Nope..You do that when you vote

the policy has been in place for decades. Seems like most people do not understand the basic functions of their government.

[Vidar]

138. Exactly right. Chavez is showing that he's willing to stand up to Bush's puppet.

[Bacchus39]

59. Hugo's support is sagging so he threatens to attack Colombia

n/t

[subsuelo]

66. For a more informed understanding see post #15

[Bacchus39]

71. so Chavez is a willing participant in the US plans?

Colombia bombs a FARC terrorist camp in Ecuador and Venezuela threatens war with Colombia. that was the US plan????

[subsuelo]

74. Chavez himself spells it out pretty clearly

"We don't want war, but we aren't going to permit the U.S. empire, which is the master ... to come divide us," Chavez said on his weekly TV and radio program.

[Bacchus39]

75. wouldn't war be divisive??? that makes no sense whatsoever but considering the source

its not surprising.

if Chavez doesn't want war why the threatening actions and rhetoric?

Colombia didn't attack the terrorist base in Venezuela.

[subsuelo]

76. "we aren't going to permit the U.S. empire ... to come divide us"

That makes sense, and is perfectly clear to me

[Bacchus39]

77. by starting a war??? Colombia didn't attack the FARC in Venezuela either

n/t

[AlphaCentauri]

78. spin it the other way

what about if Ecuador or Venezuela attack the paramilitaries in Colombia?

[Bacchus39]

79. are the paramilitaries kidnapping and murdering Ecuadorian and Venezuelan citizens?

if that was the case, there would already be a war.

[AlphaCentauri]

81. Are they crossing the Venezuelan border to destabilize the government?

they are crossing the border to commit crimes, like drug smuggling.

The Venezuelan people have mobilised against the paramilitary threat. On June 17, thousands of campesinos (peasants) from six states arrived in Guasdualito, in Apure state, for a march against Plan Colombia and “against the paramilitaries who are aiming to destabilise the Bolivarian revolution”, a spokesperson stated. This was the first protest of such breadth to occur on the border.

More than 150 campesinos have been murdered over the last four years, with the killers believed to be paramilitaries and other thugs in the employ of large landowners who feel threatened by Chavez’s radical land reform program, which has confiscated some large estates and handed them over to landless peasants.

http://www.greenleft.org.au/2006/684/8062

[Judi Lynn]

83. Have been hearing about this crap for years. Thanks so much for the link. n/t

[Bacchus39]

you mean just like the FARC, the FARC gets sanctuary though

n/t

[Bacchus39]

95. you mean just like the FARC, the FARC gets sanctuary though

n/t

[Judi Lynn]

101. Please provide a source for your claim Venezuela protects FARCS. n/t

[Bacchus39]

103. I already have on the Latin American board but here is a repeat

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20080215/wl_csm/obitter_1

[AlphaCentauri]

106. Here is the colombian government in their own words

http://www.fac.mil.co/index.php?idcategoria=11491&facmil_2007=fe2958d2bfc1a59

[Bacchus39]

109. you can provide the link in Spanish because this is unintelligible

n/t

[AlphaCentauri]

111. on the top right side it says Espagnol.

:bounce:

[Judi Lynn]

114. Where, in any part of your article does it say Chavez gives sanctuary to the FARCs?

You apparently didn't take enough time to read the article, which also says:

According to government figures, 382 people were kidnapped last year in Venezuela, most of them near the border with Colombia, where kidnapping is an industry for common criminals, leftist rebels, and right-wing paramilitary groups. Many hostages are released after huge ransoms are paid. Others are never heard from again.

In most cases on the Venezuelan side of the border, it's hard to know who has the hostages. "People kidnap and you don't know who they are," says Porfirio Dávila, whose father – a rancher – was kidnapped in June 2003 and is still held captive. As in Colombia, common criminals often carry out the abductions and later "sell" them to the FARC or the ELN who have the logistical ability to hold a captive and negotiate a ransom. Most Venezuelan hostages are believed to be held inside Venezuela but often the ransom payments must be made in Colombia.
(snip)

I'm not seeing anything there that tells me Hugo Chavez give sanctuary to the FARC.

[ohio2007]

123. They still hold americans and french. But I think the French woman died recently

I'm sure the "aid workers" were all CIA operatives though ...
/sarc

[Judi Lynn]

126. She's ill, currently, according to a released hostage from the last group. n/t

[Judi Lynn]

82. They'd have every reason to do it, since the paramilitaries have already been caught

in Venezuela in schemes to steal weapons from the National Guard armory, arm 1,500 men, and assassinate Chavez, which would mean killing everyone in the road. They were lucky that, ultimately, after time in the slammer, and questioning, many of them were allowed to go back to Colombia:

The Venezuelan elite imports soldiers
by Marta Harnecker
May 23, 2004

~snip~
Since 'the conspiracies against Venezuela do not end with the capture of mercenaries in Caracas,' there must be many other infiltrators in other areas of the country; since this is not an isolated action, but one whose efforts to stop the process continue, one can reach but only one conclusion: it is necessary to prepare oneself for self-defense. This is why the President considered it opportune to take advantage of the occasion and to announce three strategic lines for defending the country. The most radical proposal was a call for the population to massively participate in the defense of the nation.

A week earlier, on the 9th of May, on the outskirts of Caracas, a paramilitary force was discovered, dressed in field uniforms. Later, more were found, raising the total to 130, leaving open the possibility that there are still more in the country. The three Colombian paramilitary leaders of the group are members of the Autonomous Self-Defense Forces (AUC) in Northern Santander state in Colombia.

Some of the captured Colombian fighters have a long history as members of paramilitary forces. Others are reservists of the Colombian army and yet others were specifically recruited for the task in Venezuela and were surely tricked. Among these there are several who are minors.

A colonel of the Venezuelan air force was also detained, as well as seven officers of the National Guard. Among those implicated in the plot is a group of civilians headed by the Cuban Roberto Alonso, creator of the 'guarimbas,'<1> and Gustavo Quintero Machado, a Venezuelan, both who are currently wanted by the Venezuelan justice system.

What the real objectives were is now being discussed. One of them could have been to steal weapons so as to then attack the Miraflores presidential palace and President Chavez himself.

The government denounced the existence of an international plot in which the governments of the United States and of Colombian would be involved. U.S. Ambassador Shapiro denied that his country had any participation in the incident. And the Colombian president, for his part, solidarized himself with the Venezuelan government, affirming that he supports its actions against the members of the irregular Colombian military group, which then caused Chavez to publicly announce that he was convinced that President Alvaro Uribe did not have anything to do with the plot, even though he insisted on leveling charges against a Colombian general by the name of Carreño.

Even though the oppositional media conducted a big campaign to minimize the issue, trying to accuse the government of having organized a montage, so as to have a pretext for taking forceful measures that would impede a confrontation at the voting booth, every day more evidence surfaces that confirm the official version.

The Colombian attorney general's office has evidence that proves that paramilitary fighters were recruited and then transported to Venezuela and that extreme right-wing groups infiltrated intelligence services in the border town of Cúcuta. The proof was shown on the news program 'The Independent Network.' The program broadcast some intercepted recordings of paramilitary soldiers in Cúcuta, in which the operations they carried out in Venezuelan territory are reviewed.
(snip)http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=5579 [br />


Captured Colombian paramilitaries

1.) The right to violate any country's sovereignty, including the use of force and violence, directly or in cooperation with local mercenaries.

2.) The right to recruit and subvert military and security officials to serve the interests of the Colombian state.

3.) The right to allocate funds to bounty hunters or "third parties" to engage in illegal violent acts within a target country.

4.) The assertion of the supremacy of Colombian laws, decrees and policies over and against the sovereign laws of the intervened country
(snip)

http://www.counterpunch.org/petras01252005.html



More Colombian paramilitaries

Published on Monday, May 17,
by the Agence France Presse
Thousands Protest Colombian Paramilitary Presence in Venezuela
Chavez to Set up 'People's Militia'

President Hugo Chavez announced his government would establish "people's militias" to counter what he called foreign interference after an alleged coup plot by Colombian paramilitaries Caracas claims was financed by Washington.

Chavez also said he would boost the strength of Venezuela's armed forces as part of a new "anti-imperialist" phase for his government.

"Each and every Venezuelan man and woman must consider themselves a soldier," said Chavez.

"Let the organization of a popular and military orientation begin from today."

The president's announcement came a week after authorities arrested 88 people described as Colombian paramilitaries holed up on property belonging to a key opposition figure.
(snip/...)

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0517-04.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~12.30pm update

Colombian paramilitaries arrested in Venezuela

Jeremy Lennard and agencies
Monday May 10, 2004

Venezuelan police have arrested more than 70 Colombian paramilitary fighters who were allegedly plotting to strike against the government in Caracas, according to the country's president, Hugo Chávez.
Opposition leaders, however, were quick to dismiss the president's claim, calling the raids on a farm less than 10 miles from the capital a ruse to divert attention from their efforts to oust Mr Chávez in a recall vote.

During his weekly radio and TV broadcast, Hello Mr President, Mr Chávez said that 53 paramilitary fighters were arrested at the farm early on Sunday and another 24 were picked up after fleeing into the countryside.
The country's security forces were uncovering additional clues and searching for more suspects, he said, adding that the arrests were proof of a conspiracy against his government involving Cuban and Venezuelan exiles in Florida and neighbouring Colombia.
(snip/...)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/venezuela/story/0,,1213445,00.html



More captured Colombian paramilitaries

Three Venezuelan Officers and 27 Colombians Sentenced for Assassination Plot
A Venezuelan military court sentenced three Venezuelan military officers and 27 Colombians to two to nine years of prison for plotting an assault on Venezuela’s presidential palace and the assassination of President Hugo Chavez.Another 73 Colombians and 3 Venezuelan officers, who had also been suspected of participating in the plot, were freed after spending 17 months in prison.

118 Colombians were captured in May 2004 on a ranch just outside of Caracas, wearing Venezuelan military fatigues. Many of them appeared to be Colombian paramilitary fighters who had been recruited for a mission in Venezuela to attack the Chavez government and to kill the president. Six Venezuelan officers were also arrested in the course of the investigation.

Some of the Colombians were peasants who had been lured to come to Venezuela with the promise of jobs. Upon arriving, though, they were forced to engage in paramilitary training exercises and were forbidden to leave the ranch. 18 of the Colombians were released immediately after the capture and returned to Colombia because they were minors between 15 and 17 years. The ranch belongs to Roberto Alonso, a prominent Cuban-Venezuelan opposition activist. The highest level officer to be sentenced was General Ovidio Poggioli, who had been charged with military rebellion and was sentenced to 2 years and ten months of prison. The other two Venezuelan officers are Colonel Jesús Farias Rodríguez and Captain Rafael Farias Villasmil, who were each sentenced to nine years of prison. The 27 Colombians were each sentenced to six years prison.

When the group of Colombians were first arrested, many opposition leaders argued that the government had staged the arrests, in order to make the opposition look bad. They pointed out that no weapons were found with the paramilitary fighters and that the whole operation looked far too amateurish to have any chance of success. Also, it was argued that it is practically impossible to transport 120 Colombian paramilitary fighters undetected all the way from Colombia to Caracas, considering that there are numerous military control points along the way.
(snip)

http://www.voltairenet.org/article130297.html

[fascisthunter]

72. .

[Subdivisions]

15. Looks like shrubco might get their proxy war

between Chavez and Colombia after all.

[Judi Lynn]

23. Sure does. The attempt to send paramilitaries into Venezuela to kill Chavez failed,

and 130 men were arrested staying at a ranch owned by Cuban-Venezuelan opposition activist, Roberto Alonso, outside Caracas. (He lives next door to Venezuela's wealthiest man, and _Bush family friend, media mogul Gustavo Cisneros, who was one of the coup planners.

They revealed they had been given orders to break into a National Guard armory, and seize enough equipment to arm 1,500 men before moving to the next stage, which would have been going into the Presidential Palace and killing Chavez.

On another occassion, Colombia's President Alvaro Uribe spent six hours in a meeting with Hugo Chavez apologizing for a plot which had been discovered in Colombia to kill him.

On another occassion, Uribe's head of intelligence, Jorge Noguero, who fled the country, was discovered to have been involved in an assassination plot against Hugo Chavez.

Then we get the drooling idiots who troll here who make their clumsy attempts to sound informed by claiming Hugo Chavez is just "paranoid." Right. So paranoid hordes of people have confessed to being involved in plots hatched in Colombia to kill him.

I'm sure _Bush's most fervant hope is to be able to see Latin American blood flowing in the streets, just like his dear dad, and like Ronald Reagan, Nixon, and Eisenhower.

[Pavulon]

24. Attempt to artificially inflate crude succeed.

Chavez actually does more to help US oil interests. The market reaction to his yapping and asset seizure is offset by massive profits.

Sometimes I wonder about Hugo..

[ohio2007]

26. Iran does this same thing

but their puppet regime in Gaza is feeling some real heat due to whackjobs rhetoric

[Judi Lynn]

19. Even a newcomer to the recent history of Colombia should be able to grasp what has happened.

posted August 23, 2001 (September 3, 2001 issue)
It's the Real Thing: Murder
Aram Roston

By vocation, Gustavo Soler is a heavy equipment operator at a coal mine in northern Colombia; by choice, he's a labor activist. Hunched over a borrowed wooden desk in an office in Barranquilla, his stocky forearms resting on a file folder, he acknowledges that his life is at risk, and that one day men with guns may come for him. Three months before, they came for his predecessor as union president--who was killed on the spot--and for the union's vice president, dragged away and apparently tortured before he was murdered. No one has been arrested' but it's commonly accepted that the killers were members of the country's brutal ultra-rightist paramilitaries.

Soler and the dead men, who all worked at the huge La Loma mine in the remote Cesar province, had together been something of a thorn in the side of their employer, Drummond, a company based roughly 2,000 miles away in Birmingham, Alabama. They demanded better working conditions and accused Drummond of violating Colombian labor laws. Before the men were killed in mid-March, Drummond appears to have had ample warning that their lives were in danger.

What is perhaps most disturbing about the Drummond case is that it is not unusual. Union activity at other Colombian worksites, including several run by American companies, has been greeted with terror. Take the case of Luis Adolfo Cardona, a wiry man with a delicately trimmed mustache who used to earn about $200 a month as a forklift operator at a factory in the western area of Uraba. When the paramilitaries came for him, he says, he was so scared his hands and feet were trembling, but he escaped. A friend and fellow union organizer was killed on the plant grounds, and the entire work force was forced to renounce the union. The plant where Cardona worked is American-owned; it produces 50,000 cases of Coca-Cola per month.

Activists in Colombia, and now American labor leaders, are becoming increasingly concerned about the situation. In July, the United Steelworkers of America and the International Labor Rights Fund filed suit in US court against Coca-Cola and some bottlers in Colombia on behalf of their workers, alleging that the companies hired, contracted with or otherwise directed paramilitary security forces." The companies deny the charges.

The US government, meanwhile, continues to play a pivotal role in the explosive politics of the country. Amid images of coca growing in the hills and thuggish guerrillas treading silently on jungle paths, the $1.3 billion in US anti-drug aid provided by Plan Colombia is sending Black Hawk helicopters skimming the tree line and clouds of chemicals fumigating illicit bright-green crops. But the elephant in the room, as the policy grinds forward, is US corporate involvement in Colombia. The United States is Colombia's biggest foreign investor. As the State Department put it in a report, "savvy global companies understand clearly the strategic potential of the country," and "with risk comes opportunity and competitive advantage against the less bold." That risk, for US companies, is posed by the leftwing--guerrilla groups ELN and FARC--themselves responsible for myriad abuses, according to Human Rights Watch. But the majority of atrocities are committed by the right-wing paramilitaries, which, as the State Department report notes, "have not targeted US interests."

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20010903/roston

[tpsbmam]

20. Chavez Orders Embassy Closed in Colombia

Source: AP

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) — President Hugo Chavez ordered Venezuela's embassy in Colombia closed and told the military to send 10 battalions to the border after Colombian troops killed a top rebel leader.

Chavez told his defense minister: "move 10 battalions for me to the border with Colombia, immediately." He ordered the Venezuelan Embassy in Bogota closed and said all embassy personnel would be withdrawn.

The announcements by Venezuela's leftist leader pushed relations to their tensest point of his nine-year presidency, and Chavez warned that Colombia could spark a war in South America.

He called the U.S.-allied government in Bogota "a terrorist state" and labeled President Alvaro Uribe "a criminal."

Read more: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i3-gy-m2ViT4af14BjcC-rOHaWrgD8V5F3704

[housewolf]

21. This is alarming news...

not good news.

Thanks for posting.

[EFerrari]

30. And he would be right in that characterization.

Be careful, Mr. Chavez. These people will do anything.

[Pavulon]

22. Any bets for oil prices monday??

hmm, makes a bit more sense why a country not involved in a border incident would make such a fuss...

Because that drama increases the market value of the one thing of value it places on the global market.

Take a market position and bet on it.. I am.

[texasleo]

27. Half of Fidel's intelligence, three times his power

Lord, save Latin America from this goon.

[bitchkitty]

28. Lord save me from boiler room

"activists" with their endlessly repeating spin cycle.

[EFerrari]

29. Right. He's an idiot and that's why Fidel took to him.

LOL!

Que viva!

[oberliner]

32. Chavez orders troops to Colombia border

Source: CNN

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez on Sunday ordered 10 battalions of military forces to the country's border with Colombia, and ordered the closure of Venezuela's embassy in Colombia's capital city of Bogota.

Chavez made the moves in reaction to an operation carried out at dawn Saturday by Colombia's national police and its air force in Ecuador, which resulted in the death of the second-in-command of the FARC rebels group, Luis Edgar Devia Silva, known as "Raul Reyes."

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/03/02/chavez.colombia/index.html

[msongs]

33. he'd be better off to "order" pizza nt

[Sarah Ibarruri]

34. Did Venezuela do this on orders of the U.S.? I'll bet good money it did. nt

[AlphaCentauri]

52. No Mexico ordered, Mexicans don't want no more drugs crossing their border

:sarcasm:

[psychmommy]

35. if we can't raise hell in iran

perhaps we can go to south america and stir up the drama. we must sell poor quality weapons and other military garbage to someone.

[Faygo Kid]

36. Venezuela on war alert after killing

Source: Times Online

President Hugo Chávez today placed Venezuela on a war footing, sending thousands of troops and tanks to the border with Colombia after its neighbour killed a top rebel leader inside Ecuadorean territory.

“Mr. Defense Minister, move me 10 battalions to the border with Colombia immediately - tank battalions,” Mr Chávez boomed on his weekly television programme, Aló Presidente. He also placed the Venezuelan Air Force on standby for action.

“We do not want war”, said Mr Chávez, before adding that the slaying of rebel commander Raúl Reyes and Colombia’s incursion into Ecuadorean territory could not go unanswered. “I am putting Venezuela on alert and we will support Ecuador in any situation,” Mr Chávez said.

Mr Reyes, one of the Marxist Farc guerrillas’ most senior commanders, was killed yesterday along with 16 other militants in a camp 1 mile inside Ecuadorean territory.



Read more: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3471872.ece

---

Uh-oh.

[no_hypocrisy]

37. So . . . . , what do you think the opening price for crude will be tomorrow morning?

[seemslikeadream]

38. Maybe CNN will try this one again

[Fountain79]

39. Perhaps if Ecuador and Chavez would not allow these groups to enter

then their would have never been an incursion in the first place.

[atreides1]

40. And how do they prevent it?

The US can't even control it's own borders, and who enters, so how can Ecuador and Velenzuela do what the only remaining super power is incapable of doing?

[Meshuga]

41. I find it funny that there is no outcry from Chavez for the FARC crossing...

...the border into Venezuela and Ecuador. Instead he has requested, in the recent past, for other countries to take FARC off terror list.

[happyslug]

45. The FARC crossing was peaceful, by all accounts.

It was Columbia that dropped bombs and did military action in Ecuador.

[Meshuga]

56. I don't think what Colombia did was right

But in my opinion, killing these FARC assholes was a good thing.

The fact that FARC gets any kind of protection from Chavez is not only disturbing, it's fucked up. I would understand if Chavez had a problem with FARC since they are responsible for violence in Colombia and other neighboring countries (they provide support to drug lords, I have family in Brazil and the violence there is unbearable), but he doesn't because these thugs are allies.

Colombia didn't attack the people of Ecuador, it went in and killed a bunch of criminals who are responsible for the death of innocent people in neighboring countries, not only in Colombia. It was wrong of Colombia to go in another country's territory but Chavez inaction is a contributing factor, you just have to look at the big picture in order to see this. But should we expect that these governments will condemn the FARC and kick them out when the FARC was a contributer to their parties and helped them get elected?

It will be interesting to see what Lula's position will be in Brazil since Brazil has a huge problem with violent groups in the favelas (that are supported by FARC) while his party PT (Partido dos Trabalhadores -- Brazilian Labor Party) has received support from the FARC. I am sure Lula is going to stay out of this because he is not stupid to get involved.

[atreides1]

62. It may have been right, but it was done badly

"Colombia didn't attack the people of Ecuador, it went in and killed a bunch of criminals who are responsible for the death of innocent people in neighboring countries, not only in Colombia."

"But in my opinion, killing these FARC assholes was a good thing."

I'm curious as to when the US will bomb a Mexican border town that is used as a transport point for the drug cartels in Mexico, afterall killing those assholes would be a good thing also, wouldn't it?

[Meshuga]

65. It is not only drugs

FARC provides modern weapons to powerful criminal gangs that terrorize the population in neighboring countries. There is no comparison to Mexican drugs entering the US. I wish that drugs was the only issue to make your analogy valid. Bu that is not the reality.

[EFerrari]

102. In order for this to be "a good thing" one must have no regard for the rule of law. n/t

[AlphaCentauri]

47. Not easy for the FARC to enter Venezuela and it's not funny to Uribe

[Meshuga]

57. Not funny to Uribe and the people in neighboring countries

But FARC has entered Venezuela, Ecuador, Brazil, etc. It is pretty easy. How do you think the drug gangs of Rio de Janeiro (who terrorize the people in Brazil) get their weapons and drug supply? Those jungle borders are easy to cross.

[AlphaCentauri]

80. I don't think Venezuela and Ecuador have links to the FARCs

that is the whole point behind the FARCs crossing borders spin.

http://www.fac.mil.co/index.php?idcategoria=11491&facmil_2007=fe2958d2bfc1a59

[EFerrari]

98. This seems to be just another "leftists are terrorist sympathizers" spin job.

The same thing they do to Democrats here.

[Bacchus39]

100. haha good one!!

they provide aid and comfort to the FARC. I mean they are operating in those countries' territories

[AlphaCentauri]

107. don't let nobody fool you, probe it.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

121. Why should there have been an outcry from him? To please Bush? nt

[superkia]

42. Good for Chavez, he knows that he has oil and doesnt want to...

go with the elites new world order plan and knows that like saddam, America must take him out. Our government wants Iran for the same reason but too much was put on the news and people reacted, this will be done a little quieter.

[roamer65]

44. Chavez is absolutely right about Uribe.

Uribe is a poodle for Bush Crime Family. I'd be sending 20 tank battalions to the border.

[otherlander]

48. Uribe is a murderous thug.

The FARC is a bunch of murderous thugs.
Chavez is obnoxious but hasn't had anyone murdered, tortured, or disappeared, which is really all you can expect from a world leader.
Ingrid Betancourt is a good person and nobody should be defending her kidnappers.

[happyslug]

50. Chavez only has 86 tanks, Columbia has 12.

For the equipment of the Army of Venezuela:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_Venezuela
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/1696
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/venezuela/index.html
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/venezuela/army-equipment.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/venezuela/fan.htm

For Columbia:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/colombia/index.html
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/colombia/army_equip.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colombian_National_Army
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colombian_Air_Force

On paper it looks like Columbia is weaker then Venezuela, but the general conscience is the opposite, while Venezuela has more Tanks and better planes, it does not have the ability to support these forces if war would break out (All head, no tail). Columbia is in a better position to support any offensive actions, even if all they can throw at Chavez are 12 tanks. Chavez may be able to keep his F-5s flying, I doubt he has the spare parts for his F-16s to keep them flying. As to the Russian Migs Chavez has ordered to replace the F-16s, the Migs are on order, but the pilots have to learn to fly them, and can only do that AFTER the Migs are delivered, both of which may be a few years away.

Thus Venezuela is considered weaker then Columbia and this is especially true if the US intervenes with Air Power (Either from Air Forces bases or Carriers). Such intervention would give complete Air Superiorly to Columbia. Furthermore such Air Superiority would be more than sufficient to stop any armor thrust across the border. This may be why Venezuela only has 80 Main Battle Tanks, but those are French AMX-30 from the 1960s (i.e. the same Generation of tanks as the old M-60 Patton Tanks) not anything newer. The AMX-30s are good enough for anything Venezuela plans to do with them i.e. defend the border from any Columbia incursions, but NOT design to stop any US invasion either by US Forces, or Columbian Forces backed by the US.

Instead of upgrading the Venezuelan Tank Battalions Chavez has concentrated on building up his Infantry and Militia Forces rather than spend money to upgrade his armor Forces (Chavez has also upgraded the Venezuelan Air Force, but from what I have read the Russian Migs he has bought and NOT yet ready for Combat, but if they are still inferior to any US intervention). Chavez knows that infantry and guerrillas can operate without Air Cover, Armor Forces can not. Armor needs overhead cover from the Air Force AND secure supply lines and he ability for supplies and Maintenance to follow the tanks where ever they go (and this ability to follow, to Maintain and Supply the Tanks are believed to be the chief limitation of the Venezuelan Army).

[AlphaCentauri]

53. Colombia has the military field expertise, Venezuela has been living in peace for many years n/t

[happyslug]

55. Military field experience is overrated.

If you are going against the same type of enemy, military experience can be a good factor, but if you are going against a different enemy, it can be a disadvantage. Basically troops get careless, especially about things they are NOT facing. For example the Japanese Army had been in combat for almost all of the 1930s when their engaged Soviet forces along the Manchuria Border in 1939. They had NOT had to worry about air attacks so camouflage was NOT used, they were sloppy on moving their troops to the point of battle, all do to the fact they did NOT have to worry about those problems when fighting the Chinese, but the Red Army HAD Planes and HAD Artillery and hit the Japanese Army HARD and basically won the battle. The Soviet had been at peace since the end of the Russian Civil War in 1921, but they easily defeated the Battle Harden Veterans of the Japanese Army. By the way the Japanese learned their lesson, and made sure it would NOT happen to them again when they fought the US stating in 1941.

I can give other examples, but if the enemy if Different the battle experience is meaningless. In the Case of Columbia, they battle Experience is of a side with more resources then the Guerrillas they are fighting, the Guerrillas having NO Air Cover, they are MUCH like the Japanese Army in 1939, battle harden but for the wrong type of war. Can the Columbia Army disengage from fighting FARC to re-train to defeat an attack from Ecuador AND Venezuela? Can the Columbian Army make the change even while engaged with the FARC? If yes then the movement of Troops by Ecuador AND Venezuela can be handled, but if the Answer is NO, then Columbia has to make a decision, stop fighting FARC and re-train the Army to fight Ecuador AND Venezuela OR assume Ecuador AND Venezuela just are doing a show of Force and keep attacking the FARC. Columbia is the largest (by population) Spanish Speaking Country in South America. Does it have the resources to fight all three forces? i.e. FARC, Ecuador AND Venezuela? With US backing sure, but with the US tied up in Iraq, can the US actually help Columbia? Still a Tough Decision, but the battle harden status of the Columbia Army is useless, if it lead to those troops being inferiority trained compared to the troops of Ecuador AND Venezuela.

[AlphaCentauri]

84. your are right, plus colombia is broken apart in many other fronts. n/t

[Psephos]

51. Normally I loathe saber rattling, but when Chavez threatens war - then it's AWESOME

not

[happyslug]

54. Not with 86 tanks, maybe two battalions.

US Armor Doctrine is three Platoons of Five tanks each with two tanks for Company headquarter (total 17 tanks per Company). Three Companies per Battalion plus three for Battalion Headquarter and reserves for a total of 54 tanks per Battalion.

Russian and British Doctrine is three tanks per Platoon with one tank for the Tank Company Commander (Total 10 tanks per Company). Three Companies per Battalion plus a tank for the Battalion Commander so each Russian Battalions has 31 tanks.

The American Doctrine puts more power under the Company and Battalion Commander, but the Russian Doctrine provides more flexibility at Company and Battalion level (The US Doctrine gives each more flexibility to each tank crew to offset the lost of flexibility at Company and Battalion level do to almost double the tanks at those levels). Furthermore, while technically a US Captain equals a Russian Capitan in rank, the organizations of both armies differ when it comes to NCOs. NCOs are a professional grade of non-Commissioned Officers who have gone through additional training then the privates in the US Army and tend ot be older AND having served longer in the US Army.

In the Russian Armies the NCOs are just promoted enlistees of the same age and training as the other enlistees in that unit. Most of the Duties performed by NCOs in the US army are performed by Junior Officers in the Russian Armies. This is reflected in HOW the Russian army is organized. With no professional NCOs, The Russian Units are Smaller to be easier controlled by Junior Officers. The Russian Army has more Officers per enlistees than the US Army for this reason. Not an attack on either system, but a fact you have to remember when looking at the units of each and comparing them to each other. In the Russian System if you show leadership ability you are promoted to an Officer Rank, not an NCO rank as the US Army would do (And then the US Army would promoted NCOs to Officer's rank).

My point is the Russian System is structured DIFFERENT than how Western Army are structured. Given this difference, Russian units tend to be smaller and they are MORE officer Ranks in the Soviet System (For example, on the Company level you have the Captain, a First and Second Lieutenant, in the Russian System you have a Captain, a Senior Lieutenant, a Lieutenant, a Junior Lieutenant and a Cadet (Units can have more than one Junior Lieutenant if needed). Five Officers instead of Three for a unit 2/3 the size as the American Unit.

Getting back to the 86 tanks, that is only enough for ONE US type tank Battalion (with 33 tanks left over) or two Russian type tank battalions (with 14 tanks left over). Some of the tanks may be spares or the Battalions have Four Companies instead of Three. Given that Tanks are maintenance headaches and by the time tanks are combat, the actual number per unit will always be less than what is assigned to the unit anyway, these numbers do NOT add up to the numbers even a country the size of these two countries would need for offensive operations.

Just compare these Numbers to Israel, who has a total of 3650 tanks of which 1800 are first line tanks of the same generation as the US M1 Tanks.

For Isreali Tank numbers:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/army-equipment.htm

[Bacchus39]

60. Chavez praises and pays tribute to killed FARC leader

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/02/AR2008030200773.html

Chávez had warm words for Devia, who had joined the FARC in the 1970s and was wanted by the Colombian government for drug trafficking and murder. Chávez recalled that the two first met in 1995, three years before his election as president, and that they met twice after he took office.

The president asked for a minute of silence for Devia, who was better known by his nom de guerre, Raúl Reyes. "We pay tribute to a good revolutionary, who was Raúl Reyes," he said.

[Meshuga]

63. I understand people's disgust and I also find disgusting...

...Uribe getting support from the Bush administration and all the corruption involved in Colombia. But I am also surprised at how people turn a blind eye when Chavez not only gets support from FARC criminals but he also praises them.

[Bacchus39]

64. yeah Chavez is now openly supporting the FARC

but I assume the next Democratic president will establish warm ties with Colombia as well.

corruption in Latin America certainly isn't limited to Colombia.

[Meshuga]

68. Certainly not limited to Colombia

I am very well aware that corruption is rampid in South America. But people tend to turn a blind eye if the corrupt politician shares ideology with them. That is my point.

[Bacchus39]

69. and I agree

n/t

[ArfDogMNO]

129. of course you turn a blind eye, because its better to have a corrupt governmen

on your side than one against you.

Chavez is an ideologue and will start a shooting war with colombia sooner or later, growing into a regional war in NW south america.

[EFerrari]

96. Could you provide a link? Because you keep repeating that statement

and I would like to check it out.

[Bacchus39]

99. here's one, Chavez has made several FARC supporting statements recently

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

Chávez had warm words for Devia, who had joined the FARC in the 1970s and was wanted by the Colombian government for drug trafficking and murder. Chávez recalled that the two first met in 1995, three years before his election as president, and that they met twice after he took office.

The president asked for a minute of silence for Devia, who was better known by his nom de guerre, Raúl Reyes. "We pay tribute to a good revolutionary, who was Raúl Reyes," he said.

[Judi Lynn]

115. No one's home at that link. Do you have a working link? It would be helpful for context. n/t

[Meshuga]

116. Try this one...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/02/AR2008030200773.html?sub=AR

[Judi Lynn]

118. A Juan Forero exposition! Wonderful. He's been up to his nose in disinformation for years.

People accustomed to reading whatever's available here recognize his name instantly, among others.

Here's a look at how remarkable his work was during the coup:

FRIDAY, APRIL 12, 2002: DEMOCRACY HELD HOSTAGE, DAY TWO

New York Times readers awoke on Friday morning to read what should herald, in retrospect, Juan Forero's resignation from a career as a so-called journalist. Forero wrote:

"Mr. Chavez, 47, a firebrand populist who had said he would remake Venezuela to benefit the poor, was obligated to resign in a meeting with three military officers about 3 a.m. today…"

Forero was, by now, in full disinformation mode. He claimed that Chavez, during his presidency, had "seized control of the legislature," neglecting to clarify that Venezuela's electorate voted fair and square, the American way, at the ballot box for members of Congress who supported the Bolivarian Revolution of Chavez.

On Friday, the military junta that had arrested and imprisoned the President at gunpoint without having legally charged him with any crime, installed national Chamber of Commerce and Industry chairman, oilman, and number-one coup leader Pedro Carmona as "president."

Among Carmona's first acts: He abolished the elected national congress, disbanded the constitutionally established Supreme Court, and even changed the name of the country from the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela to the plain old Republic of Venezuela.

Thus, in the name of stopping an "autocrat," a "dictator," an "authoritarian," a "strongman," and other epithets thrown by Forero and the Horsemen of Simulation, the coup installed a real dictator, Pedro Carmona: un-elected, mentally unstable, so mercurial as to demand the abolition of Congress, and who began a house-by-house witch hunt to round up cabinet members, congressmen and political leaders in Venezuela.

(snip)

http://www.theamericanvoice.com/chavez.htm

More on Forero:

Three years ago, Juan Forero — a Colombian citizen who resided in the United States — wrote for something called the “Religion News Service,” churning out sophmoric ideological propaganda with titles like “Pope’s Visit Gives Cubans Hope for Freedom.” Two years ago, Forero was a reporter for the Newark Star-Ledger, in New Jersey. A year ago, Forero popped up as a New York Times correspondent, writing some stories from New York City — where, as the Times’ discredited ex-bureau chief in Mexico, Sam Dillon, once commented, that Times correspondents “learn to obey” their bosses — but quickly ended up on the Latin America beat, soon after narco-lobbyists had pushed the $1.3 billion Plan Colombia military intervention through Congress.
)(snip)

Also:

On December 5, 2000, Forero caused his first global disgrace, when he authored a hagiography - known in the profession of journalism as a “puff piece,” the kind that is done on rock stars and Hollywood moguls - but he wrote it about the notorious drug-trafficking Colombian paramilitary phenomenon, in which Forero hailed the “savvy public relations efforts by its straight-talking leader, Carlos Castaño.”

And:

As part of a pact between the government and paramilitary leaders of the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia, a group notorious for trafficking in cocaine and murdering peasants by the thousands, one of its top leaders, Salvatore Mancuso, has been providing riveting testimony to prosecutors about slayings he had ordered. There are also investigations by the attorney general’s office and the Supreme Court. Along the way, Colombians have learned how a group of 11 congressmen and regional lawmakers signed a pact with paramilitary groups to “re-found the fatherland” and “build a new Colombia.”

F.A.I.R. on Forero in February 2001:

FAIR on Forero in February 2001:

“There were at least 27 massacres in the month of January alone, claiming the lives of as many as 200 civilians. The killings are overwhelmingly the work of right-wing paramilitaries with close ties to the Colombian military, such as the Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC).

“Despite the dramatic nature of the attacks and the U.S.’s heavy financial involvement in the war, the New York Times did not report on a single massacre during the month of January. The findings of the human rights groups’ “Certification” report, including its recommendation that the U.S. cease military funding to Colombia, also went unmentioned.

“Far from documenting the recent wave of paramilitary terror, the Times has told precisely the opposite story. Juan Forero’s January 22 dispatch from the city of Barrancabermeja, headlined “Paramilitaries Adjust Attack Strategies,” gave a highly distorted version of events.

“Forero claims that ‘the militia members are killing fewer people than the rebels, who have responded to the threat in neighborhoods they long controlled with a furious assault on those they accuse of supporting the paramilitaries,’ and that the New Granada battalion of the Colombian military ‘is sending specially trained urban commandos into the neighborhoods to restore order.’

“The notion that the rebels in Barrancabermeja have been responsible for more killings than the paramilitaries contradicts all available evidence….

“Nationwide, Human Rights Watch reported that ‘paramilitary groups are considered responsible for at least 78 percent of the human rights violations recorded in the six months from October 1999′ (annual report, 2001).”

But that Forero got caught in his lie apparently didn’t cause any pause on the part of the Times’ International fixer Andy Rosenthal, who told Village Voice media critic Cynthia Cotts that he was shopping for a Bogotá bureau chief and that Forero was “really eager to do it.”

The Times-watcher Cotts wrote last March 7th:

Now if only Juan Forero would take off the blinders. In the past year of Colombia coverage, the Times has not once published the words ‘Navy SEAL’ or ‘Green Beret.’ But according to a February 23 Miami Herald story, Colombia is swarming with U.S. mercenaries under contract with private companies to execute Plan Colombia. These companies include DynCorp, which provides plane and helicopter pilots… According to the Herald’s Juan O. Tamayo, the U.S. government has no authority to stop these mercenaries from associating with paramilitaries or entering into combat. DynCorp employees are ‘under strict orders to avoid journalists,’ but congressional sources say ‘many are hard-boiled, hard-drinking veterans of the U.S. military’ for whom the best introduction is ‘a case of beer.’

http://cbrayton.wordpress.com/2007/02/22/colombian-elites-are-shocked-shocked/

[MAGICBULLET]

112. ...

<http://www.latinnews.com/ldb/LDB17044.asp?instance=1>

snip~

Chávez, typically, resorted to insults. He called Uribe a "coward, Mafioso, and paramilitary" and described the Colombian administration as a "narcogovernment" and the "Israel" of Latin America. Chávez also held a minute's silence for a "good revolutionary" in his weekly broadcast 'Aló, Presidente' on 2 March.

The Venezuelan president said that there would be war if Colombia tried the same thing across the Venezuelan border. He put his forces on full alert and told his air force to get ready. There is no sign of activity on the Colombian side of the border either with Venezuela or Ecuador.
On 2 March, the head of the Colombian police, General Oscar Naranjo, tried to justify the attack by claiming to have evidence, recovered from a Farc camp, that showed that Correa had recently sent his security minister, Gustavo Larrea, to meet Reyes and discuss Correa's involvement in securing the release of Farc hostages.

Naranjo told a press conference about letters written by Reyes which were discovered on three computers found at the bomb site. In one document published by Naranjo, Reyes wrote that Ecuador was keen to become involved in the prisoner swap and that Correa wanted to formalise relations with the Farc. The same document allegedly indicated that Ecuador was preparing to change the commanders of its security forces near the border with Colombia to ensure that the commanders sympathised with the Farc. Larrea immediately dismissed the claims as "a lie".

[EFerrari]

113. Thank you. I'm going to look for a transcript. Nothing up at the VIO yet.

Reyes helps get those people freed, he gets killed for his pains and now Chavez is being smeared.

Good luck to the remaining hostages.

[AlphaCentauri]

85. That FARC leader might be the one who helped freed the hostages

just speculating, but I understand many RW are so angry that Venezuela kept helping negotiations to freed more hostages.

[Judi Lynn]

88. News out today the FARC was France's hostage contact:

http://www.reuters.com/article/americasCrisis/idUSL03135126

[AlphaCentauri]

108. Now I can't speculate anymore

just reading the news when thing do not bond together there is alway a story behind the news that is not tell like it is.

[Bacchus39]

89. The FARC are the ones who took the hostages to begin with

hello???? are you kidding me?????

[AlphaCentauri]

110. 40 years of failure to end that conflict, isn't enough? n/t

[EFerrari]

93. You called it. n/t

[jzodda]

67. Hugo Chavez what a guy

I have noticed over the last few months his numerous defenders on this forum have been very quiet. I guess they have some egg on their faces over defending this guy like he is some Latin saint.

Now maybe we can add war to his resume. Fact is when you have troops of opposing armies facing each other in close proximity a spark can easily start a real war quickly. History has been consistent with this over the centuries. Lets see what happens this time.

[EFerrari]

92. I just checked and there's nothing on my face.

And why are you blaming Chavez for Colombia's incursion on a sovereign nation?

[jzodda]

104. O there is egg on your face even if you don't want to admitt it

And I don't know where I blamed Chavez for anything except for being a pompous and arrogant leader who is full of bombast and bluster. He has far more in common with George Bush then you would care to admit. I would like to see him send his troops to war with Columbia and see what happens to his great army.

So Columbia attacked and killed FARC's number 2 man. The only thing wrong with that is they didn't get the number 1 man. FARC is a nasty criminal gang far more then a legitimate political movement at this point. This is who Chavez praises and has respect for. That is telling all by itself. Its also telling that Chavez was not involved in this in any way except that he decides to involve himself to get some headlines. Maybe Ecuador should not have been letting a man helping to direct the deaths and kidnappings of countless Colombians have a safe haven there.

[EFerrari]

105. So, what you have are insults and disrespect for the law.

Typical.

[Rage for Order]

132. Boy, that statement is especially ironic coming from you, sfexpat2000

If one were so inclined, he could search the topic of illegal immigration on DU and find a multitude of examples of you having nothing but "insults and disrespect for the law". In fact, I'm pretty sure they'd find a comment or two about how "rule of law" is nothing more than right-wing code for racism and oppression of "brown people". Have you suddenly changed your philosophy on illegal immigration, or do you merely site the rule of law when it happens to agree with your world view?

[EFerrari]

133. Now you are comparing undocumented workers to Colombian paramilitaries?

Apples and oranges.

Edit for tone and, on second thought, both phenomena are a result of US meddling in Latin America. We're pretty much the last people who should criticize anyone crossing a border anywhere.

[ArfDogMNO]

130. You are not going to be very popular with

that kind of rational thinking. You make excellent points. I will add that Chavez reminds me more of Hitler than any leader I have followed in years, mainly due to his megalomania, ideological views, and inability to handle confrontational situations rationally. He will start a war, sooner or later, with Colombia.

I am amazed by posts here declaring that since colombia has good ties with the US, Chavez must be 'right' in this conflict (in which he has no legitimate role aside form starting a south american regional war).

This is between Colombia, Ecuador, and FARC. If shooting starts on the vz.cl border, it is 100% because chavez created a situation where too many opposing forces were on alert a few miles or less apart.

[fascisthunter]

73. President Alvaro Uribe "a criminal"... yes he is... another Bush Poodle

I see resident right wingers all up in arms....lol

[robcon]

86. Saber-rattling to stir up Chavez's popularity.

We've seen this tactic before.

[Judi Lynn]

87. He has always been very popular with the huge majority of Venezuelans. Doesn't need it. n/t

[robcon]

134. Ridiculous post, Judi Lynn. I think you are being intentionally coy.

He just lost his bid to overrule the Venezuelan constitutional limits on his term. He needs public support badly, since he is expected to try again to extend his term. The best way to do that is to charge up the propaganda machine against Columbia with saber-rattling.

[Bacchus39]

90. bingo!!

n/t

[EFerrari]

91. Yes. It's amazing the way Chavez can direct the Colombian army

to shoot people sleeping and in the back inside Ecuador so he can rattle his sabers. What a showboat.

[Bacchus39]

94. FYI: Chavez isn't president of Ecuador

n/t

[ohio2007]

119. The rice farmers are getting a 30% raise in what they send to market ...who's going to pay

for the 30% inflation rise in rice at the market ?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

122. I suspect Colombia's president engages in some unmentionable sexual acts with Bush

At least I'm beginning to suspect it.

[AlphaCentauri]

136. LOL

[Dark]

124. Can he PLEASE wait to do this until after president shit for brains is out of office.

n/t

[Pavulon]

125. You think this guy will quit pulling bullshit

once our guy/gal is on office? Nope.

[Dark]

128. No, but I don't want Bush having the power to do anything about the situation

besides clear more brush on his ranch.

[ohio2007]

131. Venezuela's Planned Arms Purchases Leave Neighbors Unsettled

November 7, 2007
Buenos Aires (CNSNews.com) - Venezuela is planning to extend its weapons purchases from Russia, adding to the $4 billion Chavez already has spent over the past two years.

Sergei Ladigin, a representative of the Russian state weapon exporting company Rosoboronexport, told the Venezuelan newspaper El Universal that there are plans to double or triple those figures.

The Russian official said the two countries were shaping supply agreements for ships, aircraft and combat helicopters, and that there were plans to build three Russian military factories, including one that would manufacture assault rifles in the South American country.

Leftist anti-U.S. President Hugo Chavez previously has signed deals to buy weaponry from Russia, including 24 fighter jets and 30 transport and attack helicopters, and rifles. Venezuela wants the Russian fighter jets to replace American-made F-16s acquired in the 1980s. Venezuela cannot get spare parts for the planes because of a U.S. arms embargo.

Of a package of 100,000 Russian-made Kalashnikov assault rifles, nearly half have been delivered.


http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2007/071107-venezuela-arms-purchases.htm


Venezuela's Arms Purchases Since 2005 Top China, Iran, Pakistan

By Tony Capaccio

Jan. 22 (Bloomberg) -- Venezuela, the world's fifth-largest oil exporter, has spent more on arms purchases since 2005 than China, Pakistan or Iran, according the U.S. Defense Department.

Venezuela, under President Hugo Chavez, spent $4.3 billion compared with $3.4 billion spent by China, $3 billion by Pakistan by $1.7 billion by Iran, Defense Intelligence Agency Director Lieutenant General Michael Maples reported in a review of potential national security threats worldwide

snip

The U.S. in May 2006 suspended sales of arms and military technologies to Venezuela, citing the Chavez government's failure to assist the U.S. global war on terrorism.

Analysts said the purchases buttress Chavez's standing with Venezuela's military as well as the general populace help him strengthen relationships with U.S. global adversaries and boost his nation's firepower in the event of hostilities with neighbors. Chavez was elected to another six-year term Dec. 3.

`Feels Threatened'

``Despite his high level of popular support, Chavez feels threatened domestically and internationally,''
``Regardless of the validity of his fears, Chávez feels he can't survive in office without the active support of the military,'' Rosen said. The military saved him during the coup attempt so ``the expenditures can be seen, in part, as a favor to a domestic sector whose support he cannot do without.''

Fighters, Rifles

The arms include 24 Su-30 multi-role fighters, 50 transport and attack military helicopters and 100,000 Kalashnikov assault rifles as well as a license to build a factory to produce the rifles,


snip
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=a1yScHOQvMm8&refer=latin_america

Hugo is on a mission plan that has no timetable like bush.

I don't no why you hope the next commander and cheif needs to deal with Hugo.
I'm sure those expensive Russian flying machines will be no match going against US airmen.
imo, Hugo, like Saddam would never use his airforce against the US air forces and is there any reason to think Hugo's military will stand by him if they are ordered to invade Columbia only to get
blogeoned to death like the Argintines saw how their military ended up in the Falklands ?

Just saying, the paranoid Hugo may be headed for a great fall if he moves against Columbia.

[Zorra]

135. This has Cheney's fingerprints all over it. Destabilizing geographical

areas containing nations, particularly burgeoning democracies, that rebel against the globalist New World Order is the trademarkmark of the US as the exclusive World Police Agency for global financial special interests.

"The global power of the financial centers is so great, that they can afford not to worry about the political tendency of those who hold power in a nation, if the economic program (in other words, the role that nation has in the global economic megaprogram) remains unaltered. The financial disciplines impose themselves upon the different colors of the world political spectrum in regards to the government of any nation. The great world power can tolerate a leftist government in any part of the world, as long as the government does not take measures that go against the needs of the world financial centers. But in no way will it tolerate that an alternative economic, political and social organization consolidate. For the megapolitics, the national politics are dwarfed and submit to the dictates of the financial centers. It will be this way until the dwarfs rebel . ."

http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/mexico/ezln/1997/jigsaw.html

[robcon]

137. Your post has a tin-foil hat all over it.

Most people would rely on evidence BEFORE making conclusions.

[Zorra]

139. Yeah, that's what they told me about Iran-Contra and the WMD's in

Iraq, too.

10 to 1 odds I'm right on this one, too.

It's not that I'm psychic or anything; it's just that fascists are so completely predictable.

[robcon]

140. 10 to 1 without evidence????

Your judgment is suspect to say the least.

[tidy_bowl]

141. Somebody please explain.....

...why it is that Venezuela's Chavez that is amassing troops in response to Columbia killing a bunch of terrorists in Ecuador? I don't understand why its his business and he is willing to go to war over it.

[ohio2007]

142. Chavez says could nationalize Colombian firms ( all business is Hugo's business )

snip
"We're going to make a map, ministers, of the Colombian businesses here in Venezuela. We could nationalize some, take them over, we aren't interested in Colombian investments here," Chavez said at a joint news conference in Caracas with Ecuador President Rafael Correa.
snip
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N05104463.htm

The Columbian oil piplines are only a few miles west of Hugo's border.

Wonder if he will seize them or sabotage them with his farc stooges to take the heat ;)