A mere blood test to detect depression

[OhioChick]

Source: Times of India

13 Mar 2008, 0039 hrs IST

CHICAGO: A simple blood test may be enough to diagnose depression and quickly determine whether antidepressant drugs are working, researchers said on Tuesday.

That’s because scientists have identified a protein in the brain that can serve as a biomarker for depression, according to a study published in the Journal of Neuroscience.

“This test could serve to predict the efficacy of antidepressant therapy quickly, within four to five days, sparing patients the agony of waiting a month or more to find out if they are on the correct therapeutic regimen,” said lead author Mark Rasenick of the University of Illinois at Chicago College of Medicine. Rasenick and his colleagues studied the brains of 16 clinically depressed people who committed suicide and compared them to the brains of cadavers with no history of psychiatric disorders.

They found that a larger proportion of the key signalling protein Gs alpha was trapped in a part of the brain cells called lipid rafts, confirming earlier studies in rats and brain cell cultures.


Read more: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/A_mere_blood_test_to_detect_depression/articleshow/2859732.cms

---

Very Interesting.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

1. Thanks for the info and the link. K&R

indeed.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Hmm I wonder if this works with all forms of depression?

[blue neen]

3. Oh my. This test would be a godsend.

You're practically playing Russian Roulette while trying every anti-depressant known to man. It can take years to find the right medicine!

[OhioChick]

4. You're Absolutely Right.

I was prescribed anti-d's for chronic pain, but they all made me suicidal. (Wasn't suicidal in the first place) However, it would've saved one of my parents weeks of wasting their life trying drug after drug until the right one was found.

[halobeam]

6. I wonder if they could eliminate a bi-polar diagnosis from this test

if ONLY depression is found.?

Too many ppl being mis-diagnosed with bi-polar (mild) when it's clinical depression. The meds are quite different for each and can cause severe disruption in treatment.

[Posteritatis]

16. Ugh, yes

That happened to my SO and my sister. Each was diagnosed with depression, put on antidepressants, and manicked themselves right into the stratosphere for a few weeks until people got things straightened out.

[halobeam]

44. Maybe I asked this question backwards...?

I was wondering if they can determine depression, and by doing so, eliminating bi-polar as a possibility??

I know someone personally, who was very depressed, took anti-depressants, was elated at feeling better (NOT manic) and functioning at their normally high spunky-self level, that the Doctor read that as (too happy), re-diagnosed them as bi-polar and put them on Depakote. After a year of a NIGHTMARE, a psychologist realized this person was NOT bi-polar, took them off the mood-stabilizer and back on the anti-depressant and within a month, started to get back to themselves.

This wasn't recently, it's been nine years, and the last six years, this person has been off everything, functioning perfectly fine... no relapses, etc.


I guess what I'd like to see, is number one, this test becoming available and dependably accurate, and then hopefully providing a way to find a test to either: dismiss bi-polar or diagnosis it.

Could this test open these doors?

[TexasBushwhacker]

42. FWIW, Bi-polar II is a relatively new diagnosis ....

and can be mis-diagnosed as major depression because the person cycles from mild highs (hypomania) to major depression type lows. And yes, a person who is bi-polar, Type 1 or 2, is more likely to be helped first by lithium and/or anti-seizure drugs like Tegretol, Depakote, and Lamictal or some of the newer anti-psychotic drugs like Abilify.

As someone who has struggled with depression most of my adult life (and it runs in my family on both sides), I appreciate the continued research, especially in the genetic realm. Anything that can help doctors with diagnosis and choosing the best treatment is a good thing. Now if we could just have universal health insurance, with parity for mental health treatment, millions of people could get the help they need.

[Lorien]

45. Or you can just use this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=276&topic_id=1649&mesg_id=1649

FDA approved. 27 years in use-with no side effects. 87% success rate at significantly reducing depression, anxiety, and insomnia as opposed to Prozac, which has a 13% success rate. Your doctor may prescribe it if asked, but he/ she won't suggest it because there is no ongoing revenue for THEM once you purchase the device. Putting you through hell one prescription at a time is far, far more profitable.

[Breeze54]

5. Wow...that would really help millions of people.

I wonder how long it would take to develop a test and have it approved?

[Mountainman]

7. No depression is just a character flaw and people should learn to snap out of it

instead of taking a bunch of happy pills which when they stop taking them they'll go out and buy a gun on the internet and kill somebody. :sarcasm:

There I save a some people from having to post to this thread.

[UncleSepp]

9. I was thinking much the same.

Remember the thread about some SSRI's not working as well as expected? That one was chock full of such nonsense.

[tinrobot]

19. It proves there's a biological moraker for depression.

In many people the happy pills work, but in some they don't, which is why SSRIs can create such controversy.

This test can help track down those people who aren't responding well to the happy pills. It might also be able to track the efficacy of alternative therapies as well.

[undergroundpanther]

30. Placebo works better than SSRI's

The researchers obtained data on all the clinical trials submitted to the FDA for the licensing of fluoxetine, venlafaxine, nefazodone, and paroxetine. They then used meta-analytic techniques to investigate whether the initial severity of depression affected the HRSD improvement scores for the drug and placebo groups in these trials. They confirmed first that the overall effect of these new generation of antidepressants was below the recommended criteria for clinical significance. Then they showed that there was virtually no difference in the improvement scores for drug and placebo in patients with moderate depression and only a small and clinically insignificant difference among patients with very severe depression. The difference in improvement between the antidepressant and placebo reached clinical significance, however, in patients with initial HRSD scores of more than 28—that is, in the most severely depressed patients. Additional analyses indicated that the apparent clinical effectiveness of the antidepressants among these most severely depressed patients reflected a decreased responsiveness to placebo rather than an increased responsiveness to antidepressants.
http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0050045&ct=1


Contemporary neuroscience research has failed to confirm any serotonergic lesion in any mental disorder, and has in fact provided significant counterevidence to the explanation of a simple neurotransmitter deficiency. Modern neuroscience has instead shown that the brain is vastly complex and poorly understood <11>. While neuroscience is a rapidly advancing field, to propose that researchers can objectively identify a “chemical imbalance” at the molecular level is not compatible with the extant science. In fact, there is no scientifically established ideal “chemical balance” of serotonin, let alone an identifiable pathological imbalance. To equate the impressive recent achievements of neuroscience with support for the serotonin hypothesis is a mistake.

With direct proof of serotonin deficiency in any mental disorder lacking, the claimed efficacy of SSRIs is often cited as indirect support for the serotonin hypothesis. Yet, this ex juvantibus line of reasoning (i.e., reasoning “backwards” to make assumptions about disease causation based on the response of the disease to a treatment) is logically problematic—the fact that aspirin cures headaches does not prove that headaches are due to low levels of aspirin in the brain.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1277931

[RainDog]

36. A half truth is not as good as the truth

the research showed that ssri's were, in fact, helpful for patients with severe depression.

PLEASE HEAR ME. THE RESEARCH SHOWED THAT SSRI's WERE HELPFUL FOR PEOPLE WITH SEVERE DEPRESSION.

should I repeat that again?

If you go read the study's outcomes, that is what you will find. If you listen to a report via The Guardian, that is what you will hear about the study... because the Guardian is merely reporting the news, not supporting some skewed ideological attack that some ppl seem to accept as gospel truth.

I am SO SICK AND TIRED of people on this forum posting LIES that may harm ppl who are seriously ill. are you a scientologist? Is this what makes you and others so unable to accept that there are valid reasons for some medications even if you don't like them?

[Dogmudgeon]

47. Scientologists? Hey, it's Ron's birthday.

"The Commodore" would be 97, I think -- if he hadn't smoked so damn much.

I understand UP's point of view, but I don't subscribe to it. The drugs-are-evil approach is as absurd as the drugs-are-wonderful approach. The same battles are being fought within cognitivism, which has emerged as a quasi-religion much like psychoanalysis did a century ago.

SSRIs are worship objects of their own. My own depression has responded very well to Welbutrin (bupropion); twenty years of hit-and-miss SSRI therapy were worthless for me, but did seem to cause weight gain, reflux, and the absolute destruction of my sex drive. But I have a friend who was able to recover from depression so severe that he required several hospital stays, and is now practicing public-interest law.

Anti-psychiatry was once a powerful wake-up call to the medical establishment; that call was largely heeded. We still do lack a comprehensive way of dealing with mental illness (None Dare Call It a Paradigm), but things have come a long way in the past few decades.

--p!

[undergroundpanther]

55. Why because I don't believe meds work like

miracle drugs I get accused of being a scientologist? WTF??I ain't no fucking scientologist I HATE that fucking bullshit cult.UNDERSTAND ME on that? I am trying to defend psych survivors and their right to say no,or yes to meds but to do what they choose to do as a fully informed choice.Bio psych is too closely tied to big pharmacy and it's greedy manipulative marketing deceptions..There are others like consumer rights and psych survivor groups out there fighting to get at the truth and put the drug marketers in their place besides the bullshit scientologist cult. There are plenty of others that also disagree with the bio psych paradigm. I do not like it because the bio psychiatry paradigm has flaws..BIG ONES.
If a drug works for you than take it,I am not anti psych drug, hell I take two myself, but in taking it I am well aware of the risks I take in taking them.I want to know what I put in my body and if it is worth the risk.To take or not to take is up to you, I ask we all be fully informed of it's side effects and it's dangers and it's risks,and be fully informed,and be allowed to choose wisely..Even if Big pharma would rather tell us lies,and the shrinks getting kickbacks would want us on it..

[undergroundpanther]

31. No

Depression is an effect of being raised in an abusive dog eat dog ,destructive inhuman culture.
If shrinks can quit focussing on the individual,and ignoring the culture they might realize where mental illness comes from.

Radical Psychiatry holds that all functional psychiatric difficulties are forms of alienation resulting from the mystified oppression of people who are isolated from each other.

People's alienation is the result of power abuse and is therefore a political matter. Any person in the practice of psychiatry (Greek; psyche=soul, iatria=healing) becomes involved in the personal politics of those he or she attempts to help, either as an ally or as an oppressor; there is no chance of neutrality for a person with power, in an oppressive situation. In order to be helpful, any person who claims to practice soul healing needs to become an ally against the oppressive influences in the lives of those he or she is attempting to help.

Conditions of oppression directly affect people's power, and since conditions vary immensely for different people across the world, it follows that the development of people's potential will vary greatly as well. To the extent that a person's potential for a harmonious life is not realized, his or her state of being can be considered to be alienation, or powerlessness; to the extent that it is realized, the state is one of power in the world.

http://www.emotional-literacy.com/rpbrief.htm

[TexasBushwhacker]

8. They've also found a genetic defect that causes low serotonin

The way that SSRI's (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor) such as Prozac and Zoloft work is that they slow the reuptake of serotonin, making more of it available to do its job in the brain. The problem for some people though is that they don't have much serotonin to begin with. They are hoping that by devoloping a test for the gene that causes the low serotonin, they can determine who might not get any help from SSRI's. There's no point in wasting precious time taking an antidepressant that has little chance of working.

[undergroundpanther]

25. If you have been traumatized

your seratonin can get messed up as well as your cortisol..does that mean anything,probably not,Trauma can leave scars on your temporal lobes,BFD.And considering SSRI's work 30% of the time..and some of the side effects are quite nasty, is it worth it?
Who the fuck knows. Bio psychiatry IMHO is too close to biological determinism and I will not trust in it for that reason,and considering the rampant inequality in our culture and the sanctioned place this stupid pecking order bullshit has in this fucked up culture it's even more insidious a blood test like this.And I do not trust bio-shrinks who over-focus on the individual at the expense of ignoring how sickening this abusive society is to tell me based on a blood test how I feel or should feel living in this fucked up world with too much tolerance for bullies. And I don't want to fuck up my body even more trying new drugs and more drug cocktails because of a long shot that might work 30% of the time..I've had enough of the drugs and they did not help,I was injured by some of them ,So I am staying the FUCK away from SSRI's I'll take my risks,as is my right..Fuck'em.

[khaos]

10. no

.

[OhioChick]

14. Care to Expand on That? n/t

[sammythecat]

20. Are you careful?

Because if it is, they're not right and it will all be for naught.

Unless you're safe.

Of course.

[Unsane]

11. excellent

[conflictgirl]

12. Am I the only one who sees as much potential risk as benefit?

I'm not talking here about the value of the currently available treatments for depression. I am very encouraged by the possibility that they may be able to find such physical evidence for depression because that will legitimize the condition for many. However, I worry a lot about the potential ways that this could be misused or abused too! It could be used to deny people life or health insurance (not too far-fetched, really, since some insurers won't take people with pre-existing depression or will charge higher rates) or even worse forms of discrimination. If I put on my little :tinfoilhat: I even see how it could be used as a tool in eugenics.

As a person with a lifelong history of depression myself, I can only greet this test with mixed feelings.

(edited to fix smiley)

[VermeerLives]

13. My heart goes out to you

I have a brother who has been suffering from mental illness, and PTSD (he was not in the military), and who, until recently, was in a homeless shelter in NY. It is very, very difficult to get the medications "right", and of course they take a few weeks before you can tell if they are working or not. It will be interesting to follow this.

I really feel for you, girl -- we encourage our brother to take one day at a time. Mental illness affects more than just the person suffering from it.

[undergroundpanther]

27. No you aren't the only one.

I am scared shitless by the bio psych and it's underlying biological determinism slant.It's sickening.

[TexasBushwhacker]

43. Well, universal health insurance would be a start

That way, people couldn't be discriminated against for ANY pre-existing condition and they could get the treatment they need, when they need it, instead of waiting until their disease, be it physical, mental, and even dental, has progressed. Do you know how many people end up with heart disease because they have bad teeth?!

[tpsbmam]

52. You make some good points but,

it can be used anyway. Anyone with a history of anything risks being denied health insurance. And even if you have health insurance, you may find companies digging into your past if you get really sick to dredge up anything they can to deny claims and cancel our insurance. Our system is totally screwed up -- we have for profit companies deciding who and who can't get health insurance. Anyone with anything at all can be denied. We need universal, single-payer health care, period Then the health insurance, at least, won't be an issue. There are so many things that can and will be used -- DNA is the one that freaks me out.

The plus side of this is that it furthers the argument for mental health parity.

[Trillo]

54. Of course, but one doesn't have to go the conspiracy route,

simple greed will suffice.

Once I had a dead battery in a car, it was slowly discharging even though the car was driven everyday, so I took the alternator to a long-established parts house that had an alternator test machine, this was easier than testing it myself, since to test the built-in diodes using the equipment I had would have required a partial disassembly to get to the diodes, as far as I knew at the time.

Anyway, the alternator test machine said the alternator was bad, the worse news was that the normally stocked alternator was 'out of stock'. Sales of those items must have been good. They ordered one with a lifetime guarantee, and since it was normally stocked, I didn't need to pay until it arrived. A day or two later, I picked it up, and while standing in line to pay for it, it occurred to have the new alternator put on the test machine. So I ran to the back, the manager was there, and he ran the test. I don't remember all the details of the conversation that followed, but the manager turned beet red.

I bought some new battery cables, reinstalled the old alternator, and didn't have a problem with the battery discharging any more.


What does this have to do with medical tests? Think about it.

Simple greed practically guarantees that everyone in the whole country could be put on anti-depressants if only there were an easy way for 'corporate' to diagnose the condition in a way that doctors would comply with. Ka Ching $$$.

[bitchkitty]

15. God, I wish they'd had this test years ago...

I only recently went on Celexa and wish I had gone on it way back when. Sometimes you can be depressed for years and not know it. I was lucky that the first drug they tried worked, and worked wonders!

[bamademo]

17. I've been depressed for years.

I didn't realize it till my DR. put me on Lexapro.

[Mountainman]

35. Did you have syptoms? Lack of sleep, lack of appitite. not able to feel pleasure in things?

[fed-up]

18. read carefully- studied "successful suicides"-another study-includes bipolar-levels of depression

This is great that they have found something that can tell when someone is very, severely depressed.

But do those same biomarkers show up when someone is just somewhat depressed

wonder if it is the same marker found in this study?

wish they found this before they prescribed an antidepressant that made me suicidally depressed and then manic, at least I finally got a correct bipolar diagnosis

and I wonder how often one would need to get their blood tested-(and how much it would cost-I seem to cycle at different rates depending on the season and environmental/situational triggers

http://psychcentral.com/news/2008/02/26/mood-biomarkers-aid-identification-and-treatment/1965.html

Mood Biomarkers Aid Bipolar Treatment
By: Rick Nauert, Ph.D.
Senior News Editor

Reviewed by: John M. Grohol, Psy.D.
on February 26, 2008

Tuesday, Feb. 26 (Psych Central) --
..snip

Indiana University School of Medicine scientists isolated biomarkers in the blood that identify mood disorders — a breakthrough that may change the way many disorders, including bipolar illness is diagnosed and treated.

...snip
The panel of markers is present in differing amounts in individuals suffering from high or low mood states. The concentration of the blood markers also varies depending on the severity of the depression or mania the individual experiences.

“This discovery is a major step towards bringing psychiatry on par with other medical specialties that have diagnostic tools to measure disease states and the effectiveness of treatments,” said Alexander B. Niculescu III, M.D., Ph.D., lead author and assistant professor of psychiatry, medical neurobiology and neuroscience at the IU School of Medicine Institute of Psychiatric Research.

“Although psychiatrists have been aware that bipolar illness and other psychiatric conditions produced molecular changes in the brain, there was no way to measure those changes while the patient was living,” Dr. Niculescu said. “Blood now can be used as a surrogate tissue to diagnose and assess the severity of the illness.”

The researchers discovered that the molecular changes in the brain are reflected in the blood producing biomarkers whose levels correlated with the severity of the symptoms. This gives psychiatrists an objective tool to assess the effectiveness of a medication on individual patients without the typical lengthy waiting period, said Dr. Niculescu.

..snip

[Oslo]

21. Good news, will save lives n/t.

[nightrain]

22. I wouldn't get too excited...

Their N was only 16! And then there's the issue that perhaps depression is MORE/different than a lack of certain neurotransmitters. Wouldn't that be a downer for the pharmaceutical companies that are reaping billions off "depression"??!!. I find these kinds of results incredibly suspect. Why didn't they study LIVING "depressed" humans? It's not "better living through chemicals" as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps there's a reason to be "depressed"! Like war, poverty, lack of job, someone chronically ill, pollution, global distress, a lying Preznit, an unresponsive Congress, etc etc. Let's not be so simplistic. How about psychotherapy, working on one's issues?

[Quantess]

23. There is no substitute for talking to a good counselor / psychiatrist / psychologist

Talking things through is a very important part of treatment, I agree.

[undergroundpanther]

28. Yeah good points

And The SSRI's do not replace or manage chemicals gone awry in neurotransmitters,., they do NOT fix anything in the brain,the whole neurotransmitter crap is a fairy tale.Even the drug sheets(the ones in the medicine packs with all the tiny print,not the ones pharmacists hands out,there it SAYS it is BELIEVED,to act in seritonin ect.., Which means it is a GUESS..
That is why Anti depressants cannot advertise the whole little chemical dance on the TV ,Zoloft and Whatever SSRI commercials anymore ,because it is not true,false advertising,yet the myth persists,Because these drugs sell like hotcakes.


Dr Joanna Moncrieff, Senior Lecturer
in Psychiatry at University College
London, said: "It is high time that
it was stated clearly that the
serotonin imbalance theory of
depression is not supported by the
scientific evidence or by expert
opinion. Through misleading publicity
the pharmaceutical industry has helped
to ensure that most of the general
public is unaware of this."

Researchers Say Psychiatric Drug Ads
Mislead Public About "Chemical Imbalance"

Why Would The US Food & Drug Administration
Approve False Advertising?

Millions of viewers have seen the TV ads for
the anti-depressant drug Zoloft.

A bouncing ball turns from a sad face
to a happy face. Like many ads for similar
psychiatric drugs, the voice-over claims
Zoloft helps correct a "chemical imbalance."

The December 2005 issue of a peer-reviewed
medical journal will include an essay by
two scientific researchers that debunks
psychiatric drug advertising claims about
a "chemical imbalance."

Countless consumers choose to take
psychiatric drugs based on these claims.

Why would the US Food and Drug Administration
approve false ads for the SSRI drugs?

The human rights group MindFreedom International
has been asking that question for a long time.

On behalf of MindFreedom, US Senator Ron Wyden
contacted the FDA for an explanation about why
they approve such false advertising. In their
response -- which took over one year -- the FDA
could cite no scientific literature or studies.

It turns out there's a good reason the FDA can't
find any scientific evidence for these ads.

The scientific evidence does not exist.

This new medical journal essay concludes, "The
incongruence between the scientific literature and
the claims made in FDA-regulated SSRI advertisements
is remarkable, and possibly unparalleled."

http://www.intenex.net/pipermail/mindfreedom-news/2005-November/000014.html

[Mountainman]

34. "Let's not be so simplistic ..... Perhaps there's a reason to be "depressed"

Pot calling the kettle black?

[nightrain]

48. how about elaborating? I'm not sure what you're meaning.

[undergroundpanther]

24. Hey,

someday this test will sort the people worthy of life from those that are not,(sarcasm, today,maybe not so much in the future..)In this political climate this kind of test, scares me shit-less.
And they might not be so accurate..
The bottom line is that nobody, not even the experts, knows where depression comes from or how to treat it.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article3465811.ece

Politically, the notion that the laws of human behaviour and mental functioning should be phrased predominantly in terms of biological parameters ineluctably invokes the specter of Social Darwinism. For if our behaviour is thought to be strictly biologically determined then it is immutable, our fates inevitable, and the status quo merely reflects the 'laws of nature'. It is then but a short step to the rationalization of the manifest inequalities of societal wealth and privilege. A sort of updated version of the Divine Right of Kings in pseudo-scientific jargon.

Culturally, the notion that we should conceive ourselves primarily as biochemical mechanisms is not only dangerously dehumanizing and spiritually stunting, it leads inevitably to both a dismissive and escapist attitude towards many genuinely psychological and social problems.

In having suborned, in other words, a substantial proportion of the population into believing their behaviours are dictated principally by their genes and their biochemistry, biological psychiatry has not only set back the psychological paradigm a hundred years, it has also fanned the flames of a simplistic, reductionist view of human nature and of human society.
http://www.academyanalyticarts.org/black.htm

One of Gould’s criticisms of The Bell Curve3 was that, in championing the idea that inequality is subserved by innate differences, it understates the role of socio-political factors in its perpetuation. Gould asked, "What argument against social change could be more effective than the claim that established orders exist as an accurate reflection of innate intellectual capacities?"

Heller et al.’s1 findings need to be considered in this light. The authors strike an encouraging note of receptivity to possible explanations when they suggest that "as yet unmeasured variables" mediate the reported association and socioeconomic disadvantage may be a potent "etiological factor." Neuropsychiatry is biased toward locating the explanation for particular cognitive findings "in the brain." In the absence of an integrative model of cognition incorporating social factors, there is a tendency to misattribute etiology in a manner which minimizes sociogenic factors. When the message is that social inequalities between ethnic groups are underpinned by innate differences, the implications may be particularly invidious.
http://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/20/1/120


Already people who survive the psych system or who suffer are scapegoated therapized and stigmatized. Dumb arrogant people point to killers as if they are the same as what people with depression or whatever are, it's disgusting the bigotry.What do people say to discredit people who's views they don't like? they turn into armchair shrinks and call them crazy or tell them to "take their meds..It is scary because of THESE commonly held attitudes are everywhere I don't think people understand the depth of the stigmas..
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/MH/00076.html
http://schizophreniabulletin.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/30/3/511

[struggle4progress]

26. First, we slaps on the leeches. Then we watches closely. If the leeches act

happy your blood isn't depressing. Otherwise we give you chemicals until you recover, or go broke, or develop diabetes. It's elementary science!

[undergroundpanther]

29. Yeah,that's how it is

Bio psych is such crap they might as well use leeches,and if the leeches get depressed,well than you got depression,better get used to it being called crazy and such.
http://www.friendsoffreedom.org/articles.inc.php?command=show&ID=7134
http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/articles/00626/off-label-ssri-birth-defects.html
Contemporary neuroscience research has failed to confirm any serotonergic lesion in any mental disorder, and has in fact provided significant counterevidence to the explanation of a simple neurotransmitter deficiency. Modern neuroscience has instead shown that the brain is vastly complex and poorly understood <11>. While neuroscience is a rapidly advancing field, to propose that researchers can objectively identify a “chemical imbalance” at the molecular level is not compatible with the extant science. In fact, there is no scientifically established ideal “chemical balance” of serotonin, let alone an identifiable pathological imbalance. To equate the impressive recent achievements of neuroscience with support for the serotonin hypothesis is a mistake.

With direct proof of serotonin deficiency in any mental disorder lacking, the claimed efficacy of SSRIs is often cited as indirect support for the serotonin hypothesis. Yet, this ex juvantibus line of reasoning (i.e., reasoning “backwards” to make assumptions about disease causation based on the response of the disease to a treatment) is logically problematic—the fact that aspirin cures headaches does not prove that headaches are due to low levels of aspirin in the brain.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/multimedia/tv/health/5411.html

[Mountainman]

33. You know. I hope you never have to suffer with mental illness as some of us have.

[RainDog]

38. exactly. the condescension is revolting

yep, slap on those leeches. just how they treated diabetes too. now why do fools take insulin when it's nothing more than snake medicine. yep, no advances in our understanding of the human body since before autopsies were against the law. yep, medicine is a crock.

yep, all we need is for the entire society to change. that'll fix everything. And hey, I'm being realistic here. that's reality, and until everything changes, you'd better not try to seek medical help if, say, you are poisoned by some toxin in your water because it's society that's sick, not you.

:eyes:

[undergroundpanther]

57. Couldn't it be a bit of BOTH

How many infants are born manic depressive? Or do they develop symptoms after living awhile?
Think.

[undergroundpanther]

56. Mountainman

I have a mental illness I have been locked up for years,I see a shrink, and I went through hell in the system You don't know me or my particulars,I have PSTD and Dissociation and depression.
So don't be so fast to assume about me.I am a psych rights psych survivor advocate,and for GBLT people with mental issues,OK? and I ain't no scientologist.I hate that fucking cult.

[ConcernedCanuk]

32. Aw hell, get a grip - if we ain't upset about SOMETHING - we ain't paying attention

.
.
.

And we don't need drugs to alleviate what we conveniently label as depression.

Take a walk, just for taking a walk's sake,

Look outside more often - see the birds, trees and sky

And better yet

Take a look at yourself.(not aimed at the OP - aimed at EVERYBODY)

Something to ponder.

[RainDog]

37. you obviously have no experience with medical depression

because otherwise you wouldn't make such a stupid post that would only exacerbate the feelings of failure and frustration in depressed ppl.

would you tell someone with epilepsy to go take a walk, or take a look at yourself? No? why not? But hey, if someone is having a seizure, they should just pick themselves up and get on with life. stop acting like something is wrong. look at yourself. why do you let yourself have seizures...

see, that's the truth about your post.

[ConcernedCanuk]

49. You have no idea how wrong you are

.
.
.

I'm 57

and unfortunately have a whole lot of experience with medical depression

and not just my own

I had one girlfriend who was epileptic, but controlled,

another who was bi-polar taking pills 5 times a day, she got screwed up young with lithium treatment and now has to take pills for liver disfunction as well

and more I'm not even going to delve into

so you can take that "obviously" thing and put it where the sun don't shine.

[RainDog]

50. If you have experience

then why did you make such an idiotic statement? I, too, have experience with family members with bipolar disorder, with epilepsy and depression. my analogy stands.

and you can take that with my sincere compassion.

[conspirator]

39. CURE FOR DEPRESSION: LESS WORKING HOURS n/t

[OhioChick]

40. That Would Certainly Help! n/t

[raccoon]

41. An even better cure: regime change. nt

[kineneb]

46. a little late for some of us, we already know we have depression issues

Where was this test when I needed it- age 4, 8, 12, 16, etc.? No, they thought it was something I would "grow out of". I didn't, however.

I have finally accepted that clinical depression is something with which I will address for the rest of my life. At least I am still alive... great-grandma was not so lucky. She killed herself at age 27. I could have jumped off a building at 12.

[Duer 157099]

51. Here's one interesting link

Extremely anecdotal, but could be an interesting clue. The GNAS1 gene produces the Gsalpha protein that is discussed in the OP article, fwiw. Just interesting to follow the dots.

http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0953-6205(07)00171-9

McCune-Albright syndrome associated with acromegaly and bipolar affective disorder.
Ozcan-Kara P, Mahmoudian B, Erbas B, Erbas T.

Hacettepe University, Hacettepe Medical School, Department of Nuclear Medicine, 06100-Sihhiye, Ankara, Turkey.

McCune-Albright syndrome is a rare disorder caused by an activating mutation in the gene (GNAS1) encoding the subunit of the G protein. This syndrome is characterized by polyostotic fibrous dysplasia, café-au-lait pigmentation, and multiple endocrine hyperfunction. A 29-year-old male with polyostotic fibrous dysplasia, café-au-lait pigmentations, and pituitary adenoma is presented in this report. The patient had accompanying bipolar affective disorder, which might have been caused by the underlying genetic abnormality.

Little snips from some other articles, showing some other associations:

"...In conclusion, the GNAS1 T393C variant is associated with migraine, which suggests a genetic basis for its higher SNS sensitivity."

"...The learning deficits observed in these transgenic mice suggest that associative and spatial learning requires regulated Gsalpha protein signaling..."

More can be found by searching by keyword GNAS1 or gsalpha at:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez/

[undergroundpanther]

58. One thing..

This might be true for mice, but we are a different species.
Koala bears can eat eucalyptus leaves all day, We cannot,it would kill us.
Cats would be sick if they ate a whole chocolate bar,but we can eat one with no bad effects.Animal experiments have limits when applied to us.A species difference. And that is no trifling matter I think.
People when citing studies forget that difference too much.

[Duer 157099]

60. :sigh: of course that's true

However, there is a huge difference between a general, systemic issue, vs. a very specific molecular one. In most cases where transgenic animals are being used for a study, it is to look at a very specific molecular event/interaction. Animal studies are typically useful for looking for clues and trends, and for specific molecular interactions.

Extrapolating to humans is a whole nother facet of the equation. Useful sometimes; other times, not so much.

[olddad56]

53. That will be nice, but it won't make treating it any easier.

[undergroundpanther]

59. Truth is

Nobody knows what will cure depression or why it exists.
I know some people improve after they find a deep caring relationship.
The University of Arkansas Medical Department states, as for most mental disorders, that research indicates there is no single cause of depression, but that it results from complex interactions among multiple factors. Biological, genetic, neurophysiological, hormonal. Cognitive distortions, poor coping skills, problematic interpersonal relationships, poor social support, and stressful life experiences can all contribute to depression. A history of abuse can also result in depression as well.
http://winmentalhealth.com/id1.html