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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 04:39 PM
Original message
Venezuelas confirm US involved in Coup d'etat
During an interview on State VTV program, " En Confianza," Lopez Hidalgo presented evidence of US Embassy complicity in the events of April 11, 2002, implicating a US citizen, who identified himself as a US Major and was captured in 2001 when, the General claims, the coup was in its planning stages.

The US Major was seen in uniform and had been at the 5th Infantry Division in Puerto Paez, Caicara del Orinoco (Monagas) where he stayed in several military units until the US Embassy admitted that he was not on any special assignment.

http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=14576
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. you see? You bloody SEE?????
meanwhile, Chavez is still demeaned as a "strongman" who has no legitimacy despite getting more votes than W...

no surprise that we've been hearing about "terrorists" in VZ lately... :grr::mad::grr:
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loudnclear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yeah, the terrorists in Venezuela are the US spies there.
I say, take the US straight to the world court!
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Snappy Donating Member (322 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. World Court
The Neo Fascists do not recognize the World Court.

The US has aided and abeted torture and Genocide in many countries. The US have indirectly and directly overthrown Democracies in many countries, yet claims, hypocritecly, that America stands or democractic ideals. Chile, Iran, Guatamala, Hondoros, Nicaraqua, Phillipines are just a few examples.
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. The World Court has sanctioned the USA before
...back in '84, I think, when the CIA was proven complicit in mining Nicaraguan harbors. Betcha didn't even hear about it at the time. Our leaders have as much use for the world court as Al Capone did for the Chicago police.

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kaitykaity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. See if any of the corporate media whores cover this story.

This just pisses me off.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. This is amazing.
From the article:

(snip) The man, Lopez Hidalgo, states, was placed under arrest and extradited to the USA since the US Embassy told the army he was wanted for trial in the USA.

The General also revealed in the interview that a possible US invasion is highly unlikely but is being assessed by the council ..."we assess and monitor anything that has to so with Venezuela's security ... we must remember that Venezuela is considered of great strategic importance abroad." (snip/)
So our ambassador, Charles Shapiro concocted the lie that they had to release the U.S. operative involved in the coup since he was "wanted for trial in the U.S.A." and they didn't dare to refuse an actual demand at that point. Damn.

I wish they had simply kept him, but that would have set off an international situation which Bush would have been able to use as a foundation for real conflict.

This is important, from the article:
Venezuela's Defense Council of the Nation secretary, General Melvin Lopez Hidalgo has stated that the process of change sweeping through Venezuela will continue ... "as many point out with or without President Chavez Frias."

The General says he is referring to the latest political discussions doing the rounds in opposition circles and swears that there can be no return to the past because the People (Pueblo) is not prepared to lose what it has gained in the process that has made citizen participation a fundamental issue, along with co-responsibility in Venezuela's defense and security.(snip)

They inform the world they will continue their evolution to a more democratic state, regardless of which leader they have, which is a statement we can stuff our plans to overthrow Hugo Chavez, since the process will continue, regardless. That's great.


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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. that's good to know..
can you imagine BUSH doing a live call-in show every week????
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cosmicaug Donating Member (676 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
7. Names. Questions.
The man, Lopez Hidalgo, states, was placed under arrest and extradited to the USA since the US Embassy told the army he was wanted for trial in the USA.

Do they name names anywhere? In particular, who is this guy? Is he really wanted for trial in this country?
If this man was wanted for trial in the U.S.A., for what sort of crime was he wanted and is the sufficiently serious to justify overriding Venezuela's sovereignty interests in presumably wanting to level charges against him?
If he wasn't working alone and he was working for the U.S.A. (didn't we go into Iraq to promote democracy?), why isn't anybody asking any questions.
If this man was not wanted for trial in the U.S.A., why did the ambassador lie and why isn't anybody asking any questions?
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DUreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. The US Media Ask Questions? HA!
The Same Media Who Claimed Chavez Had Resigned?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. And damned pumped up about it, too, at the NY Times!
One of their reporters had to resign for "conflict of interests" when it was learned he was completely allied with the Venezuelan oligarchy.

He had been shooting them horrendously slanted stories, which they actually supported.

Pity!
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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. and gloated that Chavez brought it on himself! Then they openly supported
dictator for a day, Pedro Carmona, who promptly abolished Congress, the Supreme Court, and even changed the name of the country. Golpista REICH and thugs just loved that... after all, it's the 'muriKan way.



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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. US probably has extradition treaty with Ven. Once presented with
a valid warrant, they're probably bound by treaty to release the guy.
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CBHagman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
11. Don't let this story get buried.
Look when it turns up here -- right before the State of the Union!

Bushie, you got a lot of 'splaining to do!
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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
12. Behind every terrorist there's a Bush
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Great pic!
Gotta steal that!
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indy thinker Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
15. After reading this
I went to Narco News for a history of what had happenned in Venezuela. They had stopped publishing(lack of funds) in Ocotber, but they still have their archives online. I was very happy to find out that they will start publising again!

For a well docutmented history of US and media involvement in the coup attemmpt check out this link.
http://www.narconews.com/docs/ven_archive.html

Narco News is reborn - http://www.narconews.com/ True reporting can survive.
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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Yeah for Narco New's
I'd love to have them back on Line!
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ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. not only lack of funds...safety also. (nt)
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. Very good news.
We need every reliable resource since the right-wing outlets in Venezuela are simply untrustworthy altogether.

Thanks a lot, and welcome to D.U., indy thinker! :hi: :hi: :bounce:
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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. Welcome back NarcoNews!! I'm glad they're back up and running
there's way too much happening in Latin America that the corporate press never prints.

Colombia is a perfect example. Although it holds the record for the worst human rights abuses in the hemisphere, it is the third largest recipient of US military aid behind Israel and Egypt. 2.5 million people are displaced because of military trained paramilitary death squads running them off their OIL-RICH land, massacring indigenous peoples, and killing union leaders, and other atorcities happening on a daily basis and yet the US press doesn't report it.



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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Speaking of which, a paramilitary death squad leader wants protection
for his murderous scum, wants to wipe the slate clean. Why bother?
As you know, they've always had complete protection and support from President Álvaro Uribe, and earlier US-supported tyrants.

(snip) Posted on Tue, Jan. 20, 2004

Ex-Anti-Rebel Addresses Colombia Congress
JAVIER BAENA
Associated Press

BOGOTA, Colombia - A former leader of Colombia's outlawed anti-rebel fighters delivered an unprecedented address to Congress Tuesday, calling for legislation to protect all paramilitaries who put down their arms.

Giovanni Marin said the legislation was necessary to prevent the current peace process between the government and the right-wing paramilitary group from derailing.

Marin was a leader of a paramilitary unit, whose 870 fighters demobilized last November. It was the first unit of the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia, or AUC, to quit fighting. The AUC has promised to disarm all its estimated 12,000 fighters by 2006.

Marin's fighters operated the Medellin area, Colombia's second largest city, battling leftist rebels. But they were also accused of numerous killings of noncombatants and of carrying out kidnappings.

"We want to ask forgiveness for all the harm that we caused," Marin said in an address televised nationwide. "We committed some really painful acts in our past."
(snip/...)

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/breaking_news/7756220.htm

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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Can you f*ck'n believe this sh*t??? I was astounded when
Edited on Wed Jan-21-04 10:46 AM by Say_What
I read this. He apologizes and says "We committed some really painful acts in our past." No kidding!! And this POS now wants to enter politics!! Bad enough that US lap dog Uribe's government insists that there were no criminals, the paras that disarmed in November get a stipend of $6,300 a year!! Human Rights Watch called it a showcase for impunity.

ciponline.org has a report that describes Nutibara Bloc, the AUC unit that politician wannabe Giovanni Marin commanded as "Commandante R".

<clips>

The New Face of “Peace” in Colombia, by Adam Isacson, January 2, 2004

...The AUC, formed to defend landowners against Colombia’s FARC and ELN guerrillas, is known worldwide for its brutality. While the guerrillas have committed untold outrages – thousands of kidnappings and attacks on civilian populations – the AUC counter-attacked with mass killings and displacement of defenseless populations, selective assassinations of civilian leaders, and “social cleansing” campaigns to exterminate prostitutes, drug addicts, street children and petty thieves. Its bloodthirsty record earned the AUC a place on the United States’ list of international terrorist groups. Its rise and expansion owed much to support from Colombia’s U.S.-backed military, a pattern of aiding and abetting that has yet to be stamped out.

Taking the nom de guerre of “Adolfo Paz,” don Berna rose quickly, assuming the title of “inspector general,” then in 2001 forming the Nutibara Bloc, a Medellín-based unit of the AUC. His influence eased the paramilitaries’ almost seamless merger with the drug trade, a merger so profitable that proceeds from drug shipments to the United States and elsewhere allowed the militias to triple in size from 1998 to 2002. In mid-2003, a Colombian government document recognized that “it is impossible to distinguish between the self-defense groups and narcotrafficking organizations.” <2>

In this narco-paramilitary nexus, don Berna is now by some accounts the most powerful paramilitary figure, more feared than the AUC’s titular leaders, Carlos Castaño and Salvatore Mancuso (both of whom face U.S. Justice Department extradition requests for sending drugs to our shores). “Don Berna is the man … who says who can work and who can’t, the man who decides who dies and who lives,” a major Medellín narcotrafficker told a U.S. reporter in 2002. <3>

But now don Berna and the paramilitaries are talking peace. Colombian President Alvaro Uribe, an archconservative elected on a pledge of an all-out anti-guerrilla fight, offered to negotiate the AUC’s demobilization if the group first declared a cease-fire. The paramilitaries, many of whom openly supported Uribe’s campaign, complied in late 2002, even though their guerrilla enemies remain strong. Talks began in earnest in June 2003.

http://ciponline.org/colombia/040105isac.htm



November article from the Economist

<clips>

Forgiving and forgetting
A dubious disarmament plan

...But there are many obstacles. The biggest is what to do with AUC members who have committed heinous crimes. Mr Uribe proposes that killers and drug traffickers—the AUC is thought to derive 40% of its income from drugs—should be allowed to pay unspecified reparations to their victims, instead of going to jail. The government insists that there were no criminals among those who disarmed this week. They were sent to live under supervision in a Medellín suburb for a mere three weeks. They will get a government stipend of $6,300 a year.

Critics of this approach, such as Jorge Alberto Uribe (no relation), the new defence minister, argue that pardons before political negotiations have begun are inadvisable. It is feared that common criminals may have bribed their way into the AUC, to benefit from the mooted amnesty. Human Rights Watch, a lobby group, says the AUC's leaders should be arrested. The United States wants to extradite several.

Luis Guillermo Pardo, once Medellín's own peace commissioner, worries about security in the areas that the paramilitaries used to control. The mayor of Medellín dispatched 600 policemen to fill the void, but that might not be enough to maintain order. Mr Pardo also warily recalls what happened in 1994, when 650 other renegades were demobilised. Then, the militias were allowed to keep their arms and form private security forces, which resulted in at least 100 deaths.

Entering politics is now the ambition of Comandante R: he wants to go back to law school, and perhaps run for Congress. But, as it stands, the president's proposed amnesty law, which Congress might not get round to considering until next year, would prevent him from seeking political office. Pardoning killers, then limiting their chances to resolve their grievances peacefully, might be unwise.

http://www.economist.com/world/la/displayStory.cfm?story_id=2256242


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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
17. SOTU - Bush said he feels free to invade whomever and whenever
He likes. It is the new law of the jungle doctrine. I presume he includes coup d'etat(s) in this doctrine. It is ok, as long as the U.S. feels 'safer' afterwards (and Bush will decide this).
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