Antarctic ice shelf collapses in runaway disintegration, putting larger area at risk

[Barrett808]

Source: Associated Press

WASHINGTON: A chunk of Antarctic ice nine times the size of New York's Manhattan Island has collapsed suddenly and put an even larger glacial area at risk.

Satellite images show the runaway disintegration of a 220-square-mile (570-square-kilometer) chunk in western Antarctica. British scientist David Vaughan says it is the result of global warming.

The rest of the ice shelf, the size of the U.S. state of Connecticut, is holding on by a narrow beam of thin ice. Scientists worry that it too may collapse. Larger and more dramatic ice collapses occurred in 2002 and 1995.

Antarctica's Wilkins Ice Shelf Risks Collapse, U.K. Group Says
By Alex Morales

March 25 (Bloomberg) -- An Antarctic ice shelf bigger than Connecticut risks collapse because of global warming after a retreat that began on Feb. 28, the British Antarctic Survey said.

The Wilkins ice shelf, which lost 1,000 square kilometers (390 square miles) of ice, or about 6 percent of its surface, in 1998, calved another 570 square kilometers since February, the survey group said in an e-mailed statement. Now, there's little to stop the loss of another several thousand square kilometers.

``The rest seems to be held a bit by a thread,'' David Vaughan, a scientist at the group who in 1993 predicted Wilkins would break apart within 30 years, said today in a telephone interview from Cambridge, England. ``We predicted it would happen, but it's happened twice as fast as we predicted.''

The collapse of Wilkins would have few implications for sea levels because it's already floating and doesn't hold back large land-based glaciers, Vaughan said. Still, it may foreshadow future melting in the southern continent, which combined with Greenland holds enough ice to raise sea levels by 64 meters.

``The importance of it is it's further south than any ice shelf we've seen retreating before, it's bigger than any ice shelf we've seen retreating before and in the long term it could be a taste of other things to come if climate change continues in the Antarctic,'' Vaughan said.

(more)

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=amx1sGjrgtlM&refer=latin_america

Antarctic shelf 'hangs by thread'
By Helen Briggs
Science reporter, BBC News




A chunk of ice the size of the Isle of Man has started to break away from Antarctica in what scientists say is further evidence of a warming climate.

Satellite images suggest that part of the ice shelf is disintegrating, and will soon crumble away.

The Wilkins Ice Shelf has been stable for most of the last century, but began retreating in the 1990s.

Six ice shelves in the same part of the continent have already been lost, says the British Antarctic Survey (BAS).

Professor David Vaughan of BAS said: "Wilkins is the largest ice shelf on the Antarctic Peninsula yet to be threatened.

"I didn't expect to see things happen this quickly. The ice shelf is hanging by a thread - we'll know in the next few days or weeks what its fate will be."

(more)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7313264.stm

Video: http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/player/nol/newsid_7310000/newsid_7313200?redirect=7313260.stm&news=1&bbwm=1&bbram=1&nbram=1&nbwm=1&asb=1




Read more: http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/03/25/america/NA-GEN-US-Antarctica-Collapse.php

[hatrack]

1. Oops!

"We'll have more on this breaking story after a 90-minute discussion of why Barack Obama's minister hates America, why Hillary Clinton hates America, why Democrats are weak on terror and the latest on Brangelina, Play Station and Britney!!!"

[gasperc]

3. and the new conventional wisdom

Democratic infighting is sooo good for McCain

PS Thank God for thread otherwise this would be a Gawd Damn disaster

[Baby Snooks]

8. The only candidate talking about global warming

The only candidate talking about global warming is Al Gore and some would like to put his name forth if there is a delegate fight at the convention. More power to them. This is really a bigger threat to all of us than anything else. And becoming increasingly so.

As for the Republicans, they are already sending landmen to Antarctica to do some surveying. Just in case there's some oil at the South Pole as well as the North Pole. As for global warming, well, they all know they're going to Hell so they look at it as acclimation.

[elocs]

11. Gore is a candidate? Did I miss the announcement? n/t

[gasperc]

12. some 'supers' talk about it

that would upset Obama supporters like alot, and Hillary will have none of it, people talk

[Prophet 451]

21. This Obama-supporter would love it

If Gore became a candidate, I'd defect instantly.

[pokercat999]

57. Especially with Obama as VP.....instant winner

[Tesha]

160. A hearty "Yes!" to both of those ideas! (NT)

[Prophet 451]

162. Perfect ticket

Answers my main concern of Obama's lack of experiance (I'm supporting him despite that) by giving him four or eight years in the VP slot beside a very experianced Gore and sets him up nicely for when Gore retires. Being a young man, Obama would still be young enough to capitalise on that positioning.

Sounds perfect but, almost certainly not gonna happen.

[tavalon]

65. Me too

But I don't think it will happen.

[Prophet 451]

156. Me neither but it's a nice dream n/t

[ryanmuegge]

94. Speaking of global warming and Obama

I love how he's like, "we can't wait to stop global warming," but all of his incredibly modest ideas for dealing with it don't fully come to fruition until 2025.

The urgency of now, blah, blah, we can't wait to stop global warming, but apparently we can wait until 2025. THE FUCKING EARTH'S BURNING, DUDE! I'm not comfortable with just implementing some modest, perfunctory policies on this issue and letting the climate go haywire for 15 years and seeing if they work.

Not that Clinton is any better on this issue (or any issue, for that matter), but it's just a matter of Obama's rhetoric not matching his policies.

[emmadoggy]

120. ITA.

[Ilsa]

95. Me fifty-millionth (I hope).

[elocs]

23. That would upset any of us who voted for candidates who bothered to work and campaign

for the nomination. I am pretty sure it will never happen, though.

[EstimatedProphet]

92. You mean you didn't know?

Gore's been a candidate all along, but he's only running in secret.

[Voice for Peace]

15. Obama is also talking about global warming.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/energy/

http://poljunk.gloriousnoise.com/2006/04/barack_obama_on_global_warming.php

[laconicsax]

119. Thank Cronus he's going to curb CO2 emissions by 2050! After that, it may be too late!

:grr:

[DaLittle Kitty]

43. WRONG!!!!!!!!!! John Edwards Was ALL Over Global Warming! Where Was Al Gore To ENDORSE John Edwards

When he should have and saved us from this HillBama nonsense? :think:

[iris5426]

77. Yup.

Same question here.

[SammyWinstonJack]

142. Every single day, I wish Edwards hadn't dropped out. So sick of this HillBama nonsense!

:banghead: I should say, every single day I wish Edwards hadn't been forced out! :grr:

[bdamomma]

154. I wish he stayed in too, but our media manipulates

the American people so well.:sarcasm:

the repigs are just watching us eat our own, the McSame will sneak right into that WH, if we don't get our Party together.

[kwenu]

48. I don't think it is mathematically possible for Gore to ever become the nominee.

There aren't enough SDs to make Gore a nominee unless you are talking mass defections of pledged delegates which is absolutely unthinkable. It would make the whole process a complete joke.

[frogcycle]

58. second round

they are all released if no winner first time around

then its a whole new ballgame

[kwenu]

133. Wrong. People voted.

[dysfunctional press]

143. wrong. people voted for the FIRST round of voting.

if no winner comes out of it, the delegates are free to choose anyone.

thems the rules.

[kwenu]

145. Thems may be the rules but the people will get the final say. There is a price to pay.

Plus I can't be a member of a party that can't get it's shit together.

[dysfunctional press]

146. then you can't be a democrat.

sorry.

[kwenu]

157. My voter registration card says otherwise.

[frogcycle]

158. but you yourself said otherwise

so go

who needs you anyway, if you can't even figure out the rules

[kwenu]

163. The point is that's my choice not yours. And who asked you.

People can be such dumbfucks sometimes.

[dysfunctional press]

167. we've noticed...

but we're trying to educate you. :hi:

[frogcycle]

159. read history

oh, and the whole process?

a complete joke!

[kwenu]

164. If you knew history, you would understand why Gore as the nominee is a complete joke.

But we know Hillary wants to push the whole idea of the electoral process doesn't matter. I'm Queen dammit.

[frogcycle]

165. I know history

we aren't supposed to insult each other, so I won't call you a dumbshit

[kwenu]

166. I'm not particularly sensitive so I'm good.

[burrowowl]

107. Kucinch talked about it

and has the best environmental record. Of course the M$M didn't give a shit!

[OwnedByFerrets]

49. Dont forget Paris in Africa....

honestly, the most important story of the day.:puke:

[Dukkha]

50. looks like you're validated by the replies

Whining about "candidates" and playing petty politics while the greatest global disaster in modern history is upon us. It will NEVER be solved by America or any if it's faux elections.

[hatrack]

60. Yowza - you nailed it . . .

Let's take planetary climate breakdown and turn it into an election-year pissing contest. Super.

[Rockholm]

55. So much hate. What's wrong with you?

:sarcasm:

[sandyj999]

74. delete

[nam78_two]

113. Yup (and not only from the MSM anymore either sadly).nt

[XemaSab]

117. How did I know we'd be seeing you outside of E/E?

:toast:

[truthisfreedom]

2. We need estimates on how much that will raise sea level.

And how much more there is to come.

[gasperc]

4. that will happen painfully slowly

Florida and other states will try to exhaustively keep restoring the beaches by trying to truck in sand but in the end, nature will win. Year by year, harsher surf, beating the shore, wearing down rock, barriers and many forms of dikes, nature will win. Except in the Netherlands, those dudes kick dam ass

[truebrit71]

7. Hmmm...no so sure about the slowly part...there will be lots of pain though...

...that is guaranteed...

[Voice for Peace]

16. I'm sorry about Florida but overall I am glad that Nature wins. nt

[Dr.Phool]

28. On the bright side, we won't be able to screw up any more elections.

[Voice for Peace]

30. true.. if something's got to go, might as well be Florida.

[jimnasium]

35. Even better....

I'll have beachfront property soon...

:sarcasm:

[Tesha]

161. I dunno, I can see a sort of "Waterworld" marshaled together and floating above Katherine Harris's

I dunno, I can see a sort of "Waterworld" marshaled
together and floating above Katherine Harris's
district., people paddling in to cast their soaked
ballots, with the Democrats' names all printed in
water-washable ink...

Tesha

[Voice for Peace]

17. Duplicate, delete

[Uncle Joe]

19. I believe it will come in fits and starts, what seems slow for a while,

will then hit with the impact of a Katrina on steroids.

I also believe even the Netherlands can only withstand so much against Mother Nature, when she really gets pissed.

[Gonnuts]

116. Can't fool Mother Nature

Along with our skipping comatose into a death-wish comes good old Mother Nature about to perhaps unleash a Manhattan sized iceberg into North Sea oil drilling rigs and shipping lanes ... now, what would you do if you where out there and saw an iceberg the size of a city about to run over your sorry oil-drilling ass? On top of everything else we're doing to screw things up, one can only imagine if Mother Nature wants to join the party by dropping an island-sized ice-cube into the punchbowl ...

but in the article it did say this was the largest break in 25 years, which is nothing in time, but that means 25 years earlier this same thing occurred, but don't miss the time-frame map to see where icecaps are today as opposed to 25 years ago ... it takes your breath away ...

anyway, with the economic tsunami hitting, and I call it that because we're at that point where everyone is watching the tide rush out and those that don't know any better are like tourists in Thailand Christmas day who walked out onto the vacated shore mesmerized watching as a 100 foot wall of economic debt comes to collect - and those of us who are in position to get out of the way of this man-made tidal-wave pray that one of mankind's other cluster-fucks don't kill us anyway ...

now let's add a big-dash of attack on Iran into the mix of Armageddon wet-dream of fanatics everywhere - throw in a few free-market nukes, and what do we have?

I don't know what's going to happen ... but using history as my guide I'm not real hopeful ... I know there have been prophets of doom since forever, but it does seem real now ... we can see consequences of our actions world-wide as they happen ...

yes, look here folks at your own demise ... don't feel bad ... or do ... it doesn't matter ... all that's left is to wonder - and even soon that too will be gone ...

[truebrit71]

5. As the article states this particular event shouldn't have any effect because it's already floating.

...but the combined ice in Antarctica and Greenland is enough to raise sea levels 63 metres....

The other impact not discussed here is the continuing desalination of the oceans...THAT will have just as significant an impact as raising sea-levels..

[Baby Snooks]

10. It already is having an impact

Many believe the severe storms of late are the result of the fresh water in ocean stream currents. But those who dare to speak out about it of course are labeled "liberal lunatics" by the Republicans.

[iris5426]

78. Of course.

They are too unwilling to sacrifice profits and consumerism to realize that there is much more at stake. It will be too late by the time we're saying I told you so.

[defendandprotect]

99. Is there anyone left anywhere who believes what the GOP says . . . ???

Or, maybe what ExxonMobil says . . . ???

Unfortunately, the Democrats we've elected to hold them accountable ---
to make laughable their insanities --- are frightened to them . . . !!!

[defendandprotect]

102. Wake up, America to suicidal patriarchy and our suicidal oil industry --- !!!

Add to that a suicidal Congress which evidently thinks they're not going to
be held accountable or get caught in the floods!!!

[defendandprotect]

104. Right . .. the mixing of salt and fresh water changes the currents . . .

fresh water doesn't hold the currents the way salt water does . . .

A colder Great Britain . . . ???

[magellan]

118. Could be

The SW of England is warm enough to support palm trees. That could end if enough fresh water is introduced into the conveyor belt via ice melt. The impact would be felt far and wide.

There was a program on one of the Discovery channels about this not too long ago. The thermohaline circulation relies on water salinity to function as it does to give us the climates we're accustomed to. Scientists are already very concerned about how ice melt is affecting it.

[defendandprotect]

124. An excellent book on this is "Song for a Blue Ocean" by Carl Safina . ..

Your library probably has it, but just to encourage you . . .

here are some reviews --- the book has been around a while ---

http://www.amazon.com/Song-Blue-Ocean-Encounters-Beneath/dp/0805061223

[magellan]

129. Thanks, it sounds brilliant

:hi:

[DCKit]

24. As the floating ice shelves collapse, the glaciers behind them move more quickly.

The consequences have been discussed in several shows and documentaries. From what I've seen, it's not going to take 100 years before half of Florida, Manhattan, DC, etc... are flooded.

Once the "dam" is gone, the glaciers begin to race toward the ocean.

[truebrit71]

26. I agree...the process just accelerates exponentially...

I think we have passed the tipping point already...

[Xithras]

36. As the article also says, this shelf isn't holding any land glaciers back.

What you say is true of others, but not this particular shelf. Thankfully.

[lapfog_1]

44. Worse, as the glaciers start to move

the ice at the bottom of the glaciers melt first, providing a VERY SLICK surface for the glaciers.

The important part of this story is that scientists were predicting that the ice shelf, (Wilkens, about the size of Connecticut) which is holding on by a narrow "bridge" that could break anytime, to break off in 15 years... not THIS year.

We are out of time.

[defendandprotect]

126. We probably are "out of time" . . . because the destruction of nature by

patriarchy, capitalism, violence . . . oil industry/greed . . .

isn't simply being felt by melting glaciers ---

the destruction is all over the planet ---

disappearing frogs, bees, bats --- food and water will probably shortly be problems for
us all.

These forces have been suicidal in their pursuits ---

We can't look at something like this and not connect the dots ---

[HooptieWagon]

89. I have a hard time believing

the ocean will rise 63 meters if Greenland and Antartica melt. There's a hell of a lot more ocean than there is glacial ice. I'll run some numbers and see if it makes sense...

[HooptieWagon]

98. Update - yeah, the numbers make sense

Area of Antarctica is 5.4 million sq mi. average ice thickness is 1 mi, and continent is 98% ice covered.
Area of oceans is 129.4 million sq mi. So by my calculation the oceans will rise 65m if Antarctica completely melts. What I neglected was inland flooding during ocean rise, and that some of Antarctica's included area is the ice sheets - which are essentially floating and will not appreciably raise sea level if they melt.

BTW, Greenland's area is 836,000 sq mi, and 81% ice covered. Greenland is essentially bowl shaped, center is ice filled to 1000ft below sealevel. Makes it tough to calculate, but Wiki says a complete melting will raise the oceans 7m. Wiki also has this little tidbit:
"Scientists who probed two kilometers (1.2 miles) through a Greenland glacier to recover the oldest plant DNA on record said Thursday the planet was far warmer hundreds of thousands of years ago than is generally believed. DNA of trees, plants and insects including butterflies and spiders from beneath the southern Greenland glacier was estimated to date to 450,000 to 900,000 years ago, according to the remnants retrieved from this long-vanished boreal forest. That view contrasts sharply with the prevailing one that a lush forest of this kind could only have existed in Greenland as recently as 2.4 million years ago. The existence of those DNA samples suggest the temperature probably reached 10 degrees C (50 degrees Fahrenheit) in the summer and -17 °C (1 °F) in the winter. They also indicated that during the last interglacial period, 116,000–130,000 years ago, when temperatures were on average 5 °C (9 °F) higher than now, the glaciers on Greenland did not completely melt away.<12>"

[Ilsa]

96. One of the articles said no impact:

Since an ice shelf is a floating platform of ice, the break-up will have no impact on sea level. But scientists say it heightens concerns over the impact of climate change on this part of Antarctica.


'How much more to come' is indeed the question of the day.

[PaulaFarrell]

6. kick n/t

[hatrack]

9. K&R

That is all.

[fascisthunter]

13. There Goes a Big Portion of Florida(nt)

[slackmaster]

25. Ice shelves melting don't raise sea level much

Shelves are made of floating ice, which displaces an equal mass of liquid water.

[kestrel91316]

27. Floating ice shelves are the dams holding back the land glaciers.

Stand back and watch THOSE babies race to the sea now.........

[slackmaster]

32. Correct

:hi:

[Subdivisions]

41. It is already happening

http://nsidc.org/iceshelves/larsenb2002/

Since the breakup of Larsen B, the glaciers that flowed down to that ice sheet sped up 6 to 8 times their original pace.

Also, Greenland has been melting at a faster rate that the ice cap can be replenished.

How all this extra ice and water slipping into the will affect us in the near-term is still to be determined.

[fascisthunter]

54. Exactly (nt)

[Virginia Dare]

147. What does that mean?

Are we talking the equivalent of filling a glass with ice?

[fascisthunter]

56. I Know But They Hold Back Tons of Ice

Sorry if I wasn't specific enough, but the same will result from what is stated in the article. I just assumed most every one already understood that.

[Night_Nurse]

136. natural selection :-) n/t

[Uncle Joe]

14. This will only increase the dynamic of global warming

as more white heat reflecting ice and snow is replaced by dark heat absorbing ocean water, at some point even the land based ice will start breaking up and sliding off in to the ocean. I believe we will experience major tsunamis when that happens, can you imagine a chunk of ice; the size of Connecticut suddenly entering the water?

Thanks for the thread, Barrett.

[FREEWILL56]

34. Most people would say that does not matter as

'iceburgs are normal'. When DC goes I pledge as much help as DC gave to New Orleans, none.

[Uncle Joe]

39. Except,

we can't throw the baby out with the bath water.

The people most responsible for abandoning New Orleans will be the first ones jetting out to relative safety. The ones left behind will be the new New Orleans and Gulf Coast, "we must hang together or we will surely hang separately", I forgot the name, but somebody wiser than me once said that.

[leftchick]

61. I find some sort of divine justice in the loss of DC

and the monuments.

[Uncle Joe]

63. I would find divine justice in people like Limbaugh, and Inhofe's homes being flooded out except

it doesn't stop there, just like it didn't stop with Trent Lott's home being the only one destroyed by Mother Nature from Katrina.

I honestly believe if there is a God or Goddess, trying to separate the good from the evil during a time of disaster is too much a pain in the ass.

While you may not like monuments as a whole or the concept of empire, there might be one or two monuments that you're fond of.

[leftchick]

97. I don't like any of them

Except for the Vietnam Memorial the rest remind me of Germany's 1930's. Especially that gaudy WWII spectacle.

[Creideiki]

123. I like the Lincoln Memorial,

The Smithsonian, and the little gay boy in me still finds the Washington Monument suggestive. IYKWIMAITYD ;)

[Uncle Joe]

153. Well I would

certainly hate to see the Vietnam Memorial flooded.

With me it goes back farther, I see the gaudy spectacle as peacock feathers of a sort or symbols of power through out empires of history our own remind me the most of Ancient Greece, Rome and even Egypt.

[Pastiche423]

68. Ben Franklin said that

;-)

[Uncle Joe]

69. Thanks Pastiche, I knew it was somebody related to the Revolution.

:hi:

[Pastiche423]

73. You're welcome

Old Ben was one pretty smart dude!

[FREEWILL56]

151. Send that to those self-indulging idiots in DC.

Tis they who already threw out the baby with the bath water or should I say the people of NO with the waters of Katrina.

[Uncle Joe]

152. I believe there is more than one baby

and the poor and or disabled that can't make it out of D.C. or any other place are the sames ones that couldn't make it out of New Orleans or parts of the Gulf Coast. They would be the ones hurt the most, Bush and his ilk wouldn't be any where near the place when it hits the fan, they have the means to escape but a lot a people wouldn't.

[FREEWILL56]

155. Point well made.

[defendandprotect]

105. ....and it is impossible for anyone to say how this will all compound . . .

"I didn't expect to see things happen this quickly. The ice shelf is hanging by a thread - we'll know in the next few days or weeks what its fate will be."

Of course, not being able to say exactly how things will compound --- what will happen exactly and how quickly --- are positions ridiculed by right-wing idiots.

[northernsoul]

18. K&R: we R fuct

:kick:

[Stuart G]

46. Say it ain't so...Shoeless Joe..

[Prophet 451]

20. Global warming doesn't exist!

It's not happening! Or, if it is, man isn't causing it! It's certain, I saw a program on TV that said so and everything and if it is happening, why was it snowing this morning? And even if it is, it's caused by the sun or volcanos or God's wrath and whatever it is, it's certainly nothing I can affect so I don't need to make any change to my lifestyle whatsoever. It's all a conspiracy cooked up by Al Gore and enviroterrorists and the Weather Channel!

*bangs head repeatedly against desk*



(note to the terminally humourless: :sarcasm: but there really are people who think like this, lots of them)

[lostnotforgotten]

22. Just Imagine What The Next Ice Age Will Be Like!

eom

[hatrack]

29. Satellite imagery from NSIDC - collapse took eight days

Be sure to scroll over and check the time sequence on the right-hand side.

[dixiegrrrrl]

31. nicely done...ty for pic

[Barrett808]

40. Nice, thank you for the photos. n/t

[trusty elf]

33. Gulp!

We're doomed!


K&R

[lebkuchen]

37. Is it patriotic to believe in scientists under this administration?

Let me know soon because I wouldn't want to be "unpatriotic."

[HockeyMom]

38. The past 30 years have gotten significantly warmer

at least in the Middle Atlantic States. I can remember as a kid in the 50s and 60s getting substantial snow on Thanksgiving and of course, White Christmas nearly always.
I have read in the paper recently that they have actually measured temps and snowfall amounts in the Lower NE and have statistics to back up what I thought.

[emmadoggy]

42. SHIT.

:scared: :scared: :scared:

[Chisox08]

45. I couldn't worry my beautiful mind on global warming.

I have important stuff to worry about like Obama's America hating preacher, if Brittany wearing panties and will GTA4 cause my kids to become psycho killer. Global warming who cares? If Florida goes under water at least we won't have to count Florida's primary vote. :woohoo:


:sarcasm:

[SammyWinstonJack]

170. ...

:evilgrin:

[balantz]

47. Never mind all that! Who cares?

What I want to know is how the love/hate affair is going between the two corporate owned candidates.

Does the one still part the hair on the left side of the ass?

And the other one. Does the other one still take beauty tips from the guy who owns that oil company?

When is the mud wrestling scheduled? I'd really like to see that! Because my corporate candidate is the most righteous and best skilled and will surely come out on top!

Yay for my team! RAH RAH RAH RAH RAH!!!

We're gonna win this thing and everything will turn out just dandy!

[happygoluckytoyou]

51. GEORGE BUSH HERE WITH THE REAL STORY---->

my fellow americans, there is nothing to worry about... things are going well in iraq, the surge is working, the economy is on the rebound, and i have just recently viewed a film on this global warming thing..... i especially liked the part where the aardvark chases the acorn

[SammyWinstonJack]

171. ...

:spray: and i have just recently viewed a film on this global warning thing.....i especially liked the part where the aardvark chases the acorn. :evilgrin:

[End Of The Road]

52. PAULA ABDUL HERE WITH THE REAL STORY

You are being true to yourself, you're already a star ice sheet, you're a beautiful ice sheet and America loves you.

[here_is_to_hope]

80. *snicker* n/t

[liberal texan]

53. ITS A NATURAL CYCLE

you know it is a myth
its a myth
a myth
we aren't causing it
gosh
:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[darue]

127. yep, species craps in it's own backyard too long, spices dies off. perfectly natural cycle.

too bad we're soaking in it!

[lovuian]

59. Even now they are still in denial the Scientists

their models have all been proven incorrect
they need to come out with the REAL timelines

this is much faster than they predicted

[Zachstar]

67. The REAL timelines will cause global panic.

In the SHORT time I have been keeping eye on this stuff. I have watched the models for such things as Ice in the North being gone in 100 years to 5 and now...

I hate to say it but I think we are past the tipping point. The earth will now require active conversion of CO2 and other greenhouse gases in astronomical amounts in order to prevent damage to the coastal areas and possible crop failure.

I pray that Fusion will happen soon. However even with best estimates it will be 10 years to massive deployment. At the rate things are falling apart I question if we got 10 years before it gets to the point where we will have lost so much that it will not matter all that much.

This SUCKS!!

[lovuian]

72. Ya basicly we are screwed

and Bush & Cheney days of Denial about Global Warming are going to be soon over

[Kurovski]

62. K&R. (nt)

[CubicleGuy]

64. Where the heck is "western" Antarctica?

Shouldn't just about anywhere in Antarctica be referred to as "northern" Antarctica?

Yeah, I know: picky, picky, picky...

[Uncle Joe]

66. Actually,

it's the Southern Pole but it's covers both hemispheres. The Western Hemisphere portion is mostly ice floating on or in the water, the Eastern Hemisphere is mostly ice on land.

At least I believe that's correct.

[happyslug]

101. South of South America, but North of the Antarctic Mountains

The Antarctic Peninsula is part of West Antarctica, it has about 12% of the World's Fresh Water. East Antarctic has 70% of the world Fresh water. The real concern is NOT East Antarctica, in many computer simulation on Global Warming it actually expands do to the fact warmer air brings more moisture to the Antarctic making the East Antarctic Ice Sheet thicker (East Antarctica is the HIGHEST continent, overall height is higher than any other Continent (Asia may have the Himalayas, but that is off set by the low lands of Siberia, India and South East Asia (China and the Middle East is in between). Do to this height, the East Antarctic Ice sheet has little contact with the Ocean and is completely within the Antarctic Circle. This makes East Antarctic the coldest place on earth.

The West Antarctic is a series of Islands. The Ice Sheets in the West Antarctic are grounded BELOW sea level (so are affected by Sea temperatures). Technically it can break up at any time and release all of its ice into the Ocean raising world wide sea levels 20 feet almost overnight. Scientist who has studies it believe the West Antarctic Ice Sheet has been unstable since the North American Ice Sheet Broke up 10,000 years ago. It is a disaster waiting to happen, probably will happen some late March or Early April. At that point the Ice Shelves around the Antarctic are at their smallest and the Antarctic is entering the time when temperatures go DOWN do to the earth tilt going to the North. Later more ice forms do to lack of sunlight and lower temperatures, earlier, the Antarctic is still melting ice formed the previous winter. The key is melting ice that has never before melted And not replacing that ice by new snow fall. While the First day of Summer for the Antarctic is December 22, it still is has longer days then nights till March 21. Thus the ice Minimum is around March 21 (Give of take a couple of weeks)

Yes we are in that dangerous period, and will be in it for about another two weeks. After about 1/2 month of nights being longer than days ice starts to reform and the prospect of the West Antarctic ICe Sheet collapsing is off for another year, but one of these years it will break and then all hell will break out on the coasts.

[whistle]

70. Stunning how rectangular in shape the ice flows appear, it is as though

...the ice is being mined and towed away on some commercial venture :shrug:

[Patriot Abroad]

84. Conspiracy theory of the day!

:hands out tinfoil hat:

[whistle]

110. Did you view the video in the OP? The ice breaks look rectangular

[file83]

132. Yeah, those breaks were perfect blocks, looks like they were cut with a saw.

Strange.

[whistle]

172. Exactly my point, so from what elevation were the photos taken

....and look how high above the water lines the upper part is. I thought that only 10% of and ice flows' mass appears above water, that suggests that 90% is hidden under water. Very strange indeed :shrug:

[Zhade]

71. Anyone who still denies the FACT of human-influenced climate change is a FUCKING IDIOT.

What's worse is, they're endangering us with their lunacy.

[Fox Mulder]

75. We won't be hearing about this on the news.

Instead, we'll be hearing of the latest results of American Idol and Dancing with the Stars. :eyes:

When the fuck are our leads going to wake up and realize that global warming is a serious issue?

[defendandprotect]

103. Has anyone looked for coverage by the networks . . . ?????

[happyslug]

76. This is along the Antarctic Peninsula, not the Ronne or Ross Ice Sheets

The big Concern is the Ross and Ronne Ice Sheets

See where the Ronne and Ross Ice Sheets are in relations to the Wilkins:


Basically the Antarctic Peninsula is between the Wikins and The Ice Sheets that flow into the Ross and Ronne Seas.

Here is the Antarctic without ice, notice how much of the West Antarctic would be underwater. The East Antarctic is not as bad, but much of it is below present sea level (This graph assumes no sea level raise do to the melting ice):


This supports that studies showing an increase in temperature along the Peninsula, the real question is how it is affecting the rest of West Antarctica.

[skids]

83. Wow that's a weird land mass shape...

...I guess we'd better start figuring out who gets to live where on it. :hide:

[Trillo]

79. 64 Meter Sea Level rise.

Always nice to put a number to the number of feet above sea level one should build upon. About 209 feet.

Bye Bye coastal real estate! Walk uphill and meet the new, future coast....

[happyslug]

82. That is only if the East Antarctic Ice Sheets melts, and that will take decades.

If not Centuries, the real concern is the West Antarctic Ice Sheet, which can crash into the ocean in a day, raising world wide sea levels 20 feet (or 6 meters) within days, not centuries.

[Patriot Abroad]

85. Woohoo!

I live on top of a hill!

[and-justice-for-all]

81. LIBERAL LIES!!!!

:sarcasm:

[superconnected]

86. Wrong thread,

pulled.

[Joey Liberal]

87. A Right-Winger's Response!

A right wingers response to the Antarctic Ice Collapse (7 times the size of Manhattan).
===============
It's a Hoax to advance Socialism and you're following the chorus of destroying the US economy to save a planet that is greater than you and mankind.

Get a life and worry more about the things that effect you like having future employment and paying your bills.

I vote for men that are going to put money into the War Machine and Military Industrial Complex like Senator Inhofe.

Were I a scientist seeking grant money, I'd probably sell this Global Warming Hoax too, but I'm not so I really don't care what politically motivated junk-scientists have to say.

-----------------


More mythical Global Warming???



Huge Antarctic ice chunk collapses
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/03/25/antartica.collapse.ap/index.html

[kineneb]

108. reply: Gee, it doesn't look like...

your head is stuck up your ass. It must be hard to balance that really big turd on your shoulders.

...no more Mr. Nice Guy, while the ice sheet disintegrate... hit 'em where it hurts

:evilgrin:

[leftrightwingnut]

134. Noah couldn't find anyone who wanted a ride in his ark until it was too late.

Why should people be different today?

[Thor_MN]

88. Damn Activist Ice Shelves.

[ellie]

90. I read this and feel so helpless

What can I do? I recycle. I don't drive if I don't have to. I have those twisty bulbs. I have my heat down.

[Delphinus]

135. Ellie,

I feel for you. I would imagine most of us here on DU are doing the same thing you're doing. I know I am. But it's going to take more than us - it's going to take cooperation from governments and corporations. And even with that, as some have already said, I think we're past the tipping point. We WILL suffer the consequences of our actions (or inaction), as will generations to come.

[Virginia Dare]

148. Agreed, these are things we should have been doing long ago..

and perhaps we still couldn't have stopped it.

I guess all we can do now is sit back and let the Earth correct itself again. It will probably purge itself of a lot of life in the meantime. Kind of like a high colonic.

:scared:

[Lint Head]

91. Rusty Limpballs says that it's cow farts causing this.

This is the mentality we are dealing with because stupid ignorant fucks listen to him and voted for the lying criminal occupying our precious country's White House. :dem:

[greenman3610]

93. is anyone able to rip that video at

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7313264.stm


I could use that in a presentation...

[darue]

125. yes

yes I can, here you go...
http://rapidshare.de/files/38930230/file.wmv.html
not sure where else to host it. small enough to email really.

[defendandprotect]

100. Btw, Manhattan Island is approx. 4 miles wide and 11 miles long --- X 9 . . .

[RestoreGore]

106. So what? This isn't important...

At least not beyond the shock value people can now get out of "talking" about it while they continue to sit on their asses doing NOTHING.

[defendandprotect]

109. Just stopped by ABC which is doing a story on collapse; after Mega Millions/ads . . ..

and a murder in Brooklyn . . .

Nothing --- I'm moving on . . .

[defendandprotect]

112. BBC . . . presume from earlier this evening . . . .

OK -- as reported here --- even the BBC barely covered the collapse ---
and insists will have no effect on sea level!!!

It was way down in their list of stories ---

See below

---------------

There are still 4,100 British troops in Iraq --- !!!!

I want transcripts that I can read --- listening to readers just takes too long!

BBC in TEXT . . . yeah!

ABC still with murder in Brooklyn!!!

BBC . . . covering Hillary --- "other episodes" of lying about experiences???

Jon Stewart did a nice bit on Bush and Iraq . . !!!


BBC ... Sarkozy . . . ?

Looks like the oil industry has a lock down on the story --- !!! ???


Somalia . . . crisis . . .

ABC --- East side story -- CRANE accident ---

NBC . . . covering new sports stadium for Yankees?

BBC - Nirobi --
and coming up --- India, China, US ---

Now . .. BBC Human fertilization . . . Howard on "conscience" . . .
'ANIMAL-HUMAN EMBRYOS' . . .
Whaat's goin' on here . . . ???

13/PBS/Charlie Rose mention of wind mills!!!

BBC -- Battle for Basra ---

and up again "Clinton's Credibility" . .. !!!

Olympic boycott threat ... by Sarkozy?

Ah . . . nuclear tips sent to Taiwan . . . US Defense Dept ---
Usual SNAFU - "Great job, Brownie. . ."

Nigeria corruption . . .

Kenya cabinet -- no agreement on power sharing

Egypt-Russia deal on nuclear power plants?

ZIMBAWE women turning to PROSTITUTION in Zimbabwe -- same old story - came to sell goods,
ended up selling themselves.
This is part of their "Markets" report . . .!!!

BTW . . . supposed to be 60 degrees here in NJ tomorrow --- 3/26/08 ---

************************************************************************

BBC -- WHOOPS! they just reported on the ice collapse --
"No impact on sea level" . . . !!!!

onto a review of debris/plastics --- CHINA ---

[Creideiki]

122. It won't effect sea levels because it's sea-based ice

The important part is that it's farther south than previous shelf breaks. It also neutralizes the RW talking points that because the US had a worse winter than we've become used to that global warming is over because of decreased solar radiation.

[defendandprotect]

128. That's not the point . . . it was a very brief acknowlegment of what happened ---

and the comments on sea levels turned it into a "don't worry, be happy" story . . .

while there will be great consequences to follow ---

As I've said above, the mix of salt water and fresh water is very dangerous ---

it changes ocean currents ---

fresh water does not hold the current the way that salt water does ---

If you're interested . . . try "Song for a Blue Ocean" by Carl Safina ---

You're library probably has it ---

Here are some reviews on it -- it's been around a while.

http://www.amazon.com/Song-Blue-Ocean-Encounters-Beneath/dp/0805061223

[DuaneBidoux]

111. What is astounding is how much faster this is happening than even the worst case models showed.

I think scientists have severly underestimated the speed and breadth of the results of climate change.

[defendandprotect]

115. NO -- they've been reporting the truth of this all along . . . the Pentagon has warned Bush

that this is a bigger threat to the nation than "terrorism" ---

We've had models on this since 1957 . . .
We've had scientists warnings -- alarms -- press silent on it ---
Oil industry propaganda very heavy --- spent tens of millions on the propaganda --
In fact, NY Times has been in an unholy alliance with ExxonMobil in their Op-Ed page AD-Editorials... which can't be commented upon or challenged in Letters to the Editor because they're
only "ads" -- !!!
That's been going on for decades ---

[lovuian]

169. I think the Scientists are LYING

their models have been WRONG every frekin time

they need to come out and say that this Ice Melting is triple their models so don't believe this crap of 30 years cause its more looking like 7 years

and its about the currents this will shut down the conveyor belt

[nam78_two]

114. K&R.nt

[defendandprotect]

121. Push -- to make sure that people see this early tomorrow . . .

[Kool Kitty]

130. Kick for the late night crowd.

:kick:

[Divine Discontent]

131. ok, call me a conspiracy nut...

but watching that video in the OP, it sure looks like it was cut perfectly in a line... how does a huge mass like that not have jagged out of place edges? ice experts (like there are any quickly nearby)?

[Nihil]

137. "You're a conspiracy nut" ...

... only joking! :hi:

Basically this is an issue of scale: the further back you are, the fewer
jagged edges you will see and for the video to capture the field of view
that it did, it had to be a fair distance up.

If you tear a piece of paper along the edge of a ruler, from a distance
it will look as clean as if you cut if with a knife but up close you will
see the rough edges. Same thing here.

HTH!

[hatrack]

140. Antarctic shelves like these are tabular ice formations - not all jagged like up North

Also, the mechanism that seems to drive the actual physics of breakup of the sheets (setting aside warmer sea temperatures, warmer air temperatures, anthropogenic influence, etc.) is meltwater dropping into long, narrow parallel fractures in the surface of the ice sheets.

The meltwater then refreezes, melts, refreezes, and so forth, wedging the fractures wider. Finally, when the end comes, the sheet splinters into long generally rectangular shapes - i.e. the big blocks that you see in the satellite images.

[LiberalFighter]

138. Could increased urbanization caused the global warming?

Meaning that as a result of increased objects that absorb heat instead of reflecting it is warming natural objects that kept the ice from melting. I saw a NatGeo piece about the difference in temperature in the ice at the Artic which is white and the ocean. Big difference in temperature.

Now with increased urbanization resulting in more roads, parking lots, (blacktops) and maybe even from the roofs the temperature all over the planet increases.

[RedEarth]

139. Link for another article and pictures on this ice shelf

Antarctic Ice Shelf Disintegration Underscores a Warming World

Satellite images indicate that the Wilkins began its collapse on February 28; data revealed that a large iceberg, 41 by 2.5 kilometers (25.5 by 1.5 miles), fell away from the ice shelf’s southwestern front, triggering a runaway disintegration of 405 square kilometers (160 square miles) of the shelf interior (Figure 1 — click to enlarge).

http://climateprogress.org/2008/03/25/antarctic-ice-shelf-disintegration-underscores-a-warming-world/#more-2511

[Jeffersons Ghost]

141. K&R... it's simply a matter of when not if major climate change will occur on a planetary scale

[govegan]

144. Like watching a giant T-bone steak disappearing down .......

People always wonder, what can we do?

We recycle, keep the heat & air down, change light bulbs, etc. So often heard, and appreciated too.

If one goes to this website ==> http://www.virtualcentre.org/en/frame.htm
one can find information about "livestock's long shadow".

Although they try their best to put a happy face on the human animal's race to destruction, they really do not succeed. It is an ugly picture that gets uglier as time goes by.

The 406 page report, in the English version, covers the many aspects of the major contributions of livestock to global warming, climate change and ecosystem degradation and destruction.

from "Doc Holliday: Bootless" by Alfred W. Knight

I've been coughing up my lungs
since I was 21.
That's why I always use
a blue handkerchief.
The blood seems too red
on white cloth.
But I know
I can't cheat death.

The human race won't be able to cheat death, either.

But the science of technology can measure so many things, and we can find a path to a brighter day.

What do you need today?

The white cloth of the dinner table is set, do you want to make it blue?

[Hugh109]

149. The Republicans have Lied to Us.

According to the Republicans there is no such thing as global warming. "The stinking liberals are using junk science to prove this global warming myth" they say.

Wellllllllllllll....... with this evidence I guess the republicans have lead us down the wrong path on another important issue. When will the religious right wake up and smell the BS that the republican party has been peddling them.

According to the bible, christians are supposed to be good stewards of the earth. Which I take to mean that we should take good care of the earth. So how is it that the religious right was convinced by the Republican Party that only 'stinkin' liberals' support issues that protect the earth?
Could it be that these religious right individuals are actually working against God's wishes. Oh Hell and damnation befall you! Oh you that have turned away from God's wishes!

[progressoid]

150. Who cares? Didja hear about Pricilla Presley?

Now THAT's news!

[freedomnorth]

168. K&R nt.