Venezuela says all Chalmette oil sent to China

[bemildred]

Source: Reuters

CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuela is sending to China all the oil it previously shipped to a U.S. refinery jointly owned with Exxon Mobil amid a legal battle between the OPEC nation and the U.S. oil giant, Energy Minister Rafael Ramirez said on Friday.

"With respect to the shipments, we put them at China's disposal," Ramirez told reporters. "All of it."

Exxon and Venezuela have been in dispute over supplies to the Louisiana-based Chalmette refinery since Exxon won court orders freezing $12 billion in Venezuelan assets as part of a legal battle over compensation for Exxon assets Venezuela nationalized in 2007.

State oil company PDVSA halted supplies to Chalmette, a 50-50 joint venture that can process about 193,000 barrels per day of crude, after Exxon began rejecting some of the cargoes that Venezuela destined for the refinery.

Read more: http://africa.reuters.com/business/news/usnBAN929778.html?rpc=401&

[burf]

1. China and Venezuela

signed an oil deal years ago. China has even helped out with refining Venezuela's high sulfur oil. All the while Shrub & Co have been talking trash and comparing Chavez to Hitler and the like, China has been making deals. Not only with South America, but also Africa. My guess the China policy of helping out developing countries rather than bombing the shit out of them is work a whole lot better than ours is. Use the Google, look up China policy in Africa. You might be surprised.

[davidinalameda]

2. they're helping developing countries

while killing their own people

and they're supporting regimes like Sudan and allowing them to kill THEIR own people

China is nothing more than another totalitarian regime which wants to extend their influence in the world

the easiest way to do this is support other totalitarian regimes

[acmavm]

5. And America isn't being run by a totalitarian regime? By liars, thugs, and

theives who are killing its own citizens in a number of ways from bad food/meat to an illegal war?

And all that has to do with Venezuela shipping the oil that they used to ship to the US how?

[davidinalameda]

7. sorry but there is no way you can compare China and the US

even in the darkest days of the Bush regime, it is still better here than in China

and I was commenting on the original post which says that China is helping developing countries through economic means

China is buying an empire

you're going to have these countries so dependent on China for everything, they won't be able to get out from under their thumb and they become de facto colonies

[eridani]

49. True, but buying looks to be beating out military conquest by a good bit n/t

[TheLastMohican]

50. This is just empty rant

And you would admit it only if you were on the receiving end of another Bush "shock and awe". You speak only from the position of a happy-go-about US citizen busy consuming and buying stuff.
Now if you were an Iraqi or an Afgani hiding from bombs, you could talk about who is better US or China.
I hope not all Obama followers are like that.

[tom_paine]

23. Chavez is a totalitarian? I call bullshit.

Like him or not (and more often I am in the 'not' category), he ACTUALLY WON his two elections, and Venezuela has a more trustworthy voting system that our own uninspectable "video poker slots" system which seems to have mysteriously invalidated all exit polls as invalid since their arrival.

Just a coincidence, I am sure.

And in this last Venezuelan vote, in which unlike our own Empire (specifically Ohio and other places), voting stanrds were uniform and international observers were allowed in to watch anything they wanted.

Finally, in a manner downright libertine, ESPECIALLY compared to the behavior of the Imperial Rulers of Amerika, Chavez (gasp) peacefully accepted an election defeat!

What, you mean he didn't fly his thugs down to Carcas to assault and imtimidate vote counters, like Miami-Dade 2000? He didn't have his state campaign chiefs declared chief vote counters of the swing states, like Ohio and Florida 2000, 2004?

Puh-leeze. Our Amerika is not the old United States of America, not a free country, except in the bullshit and window-dressing sense...that, and dregs left over that once vanished will reveal the final shape of what the Bushies have created, a shape not yet fully visible dressed in the camoflauge of Old America.

Our Amerika and Communist China, are now the same country ruled by the same basic form of government, when you strip away the bullshit. Untrustworthy voting systems. Executive branch and agencies ruled by Party Cronies who deny all Party criminality at any cost. A neutered and toadying press that dares not cross the Party. A fusion of corporatism and authoritarian in. Both surveillance states now of identical power and method...Party Fiat.

And on and on and ON. In this light, you've got a lot of nerve calling Chavez a totalitarian when you, me, and every American DUer licks the boot of tyranny every day with our complicity and compliance!

China IS nothing more than another totalitarian regime. But then, so is Amerika, "Land of TV and Home of the (Virtual) Slave just another totalitarian regime, albeit the most evolved version of totalitarianism and, for the moment, the kindest gentlest tyranny any humans have yet endured.

But tyranny just the same.

Whatever Chavez' faults and flaws, and he has plenty, he is NOT a totalitarian in the way China, Russia and our own Empire are. Not even close.

[davidinalameda]

36. I didn't say Venezuela is totalitarian

now did I

I don't consider it a developing country, unlike Sudan

[Pavulon]

17. hundreds of thousands of corpses in darfur

disprove that china helping theory. google cuts both ways.
http://www.google.com/search?q=china+darfur&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7ADBF

[aquart]

33. Darfur has oil? Necessary minerals? What?

[Pavulon]

35. China props up the government

that is supporting genocide. China has refused to take any steps to put pressure on sudan to stop murdering and displacing hundreds of thousands of people.

Just look it up, that is why I posted the google link to dozens of sources.

[aquart]

31. Not me. I've been saying it all along.

China is going to walk off with the Caspian Basin oil without firing a shot.

Amazing what one can accomplish by NOT being a belligerent jackass.

[Arctic Dave]

3. But, but China doesn't have the capability or

the knowledge that mericans have to refine all that bad oil.

[burf]

4. I think you forgot the sarcasm tag...........

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said on Thursday that his country would begin building an oil refinery soon on the Caribbean island of Dominica.


The oil refinery would be used to distribute Venezuelan crude to other islands in the eastern Caribbean, Chavez said after meeting Dominican Prime Minister Roosevelt Skerrit. He did not provide details about the future refinery.

http://www.chinamining.org/News/2008-01-11/1200021121d8623.html

Now why would this be of interest to China mining? In other areas, a few months ago there was a delegation in the Sudan to christen the opening of a hydro project funded by China in cooperation with the Sudanese government. They are "buying" their influence but they figure thats better than bombing their way in. But you must consider how well our policies work as in Iraq and elsewhere.

[Flanker]

6. Where are the neocons on this site

That claimed only US refineries can process Venezuelan crude? I doubt they changed their minds but I would not mind having a little fun at their expense.

[Mika]

9. Just checked in and was thinking the exact same thing.

:hi:

[Pavulon]

13. You mean the petroleum engineers

those guys? If you read the article it says oil is "at the disposal" of mainland china. That means china may buy it and then sell it. They may or may not take delivery.

Unless they are discounting it there is no reason to make that oil any different than geographically convenient oil.

Petroleum engineering and the cost of refinery reconfiguration costs are not political issues.

I wonder what percentage of the ONLY thing that Venezuela exports, is actually being discussed.

che jesus the oil man has a interesting set of hangers on around here.

[Flanker]

22. The refinery takes 200,000 barrels

meaning 100,000 barrels a day, now going to China.

"Unless they are discounting it there is no reason to make that oil any different than geographically convenient oil."

China is desperate to diversify their sources.

[Pavulon]

27. That is not what it says.

it does not specify delivery. It does not specify method of transport.

we import 10 million bbls a day. This is INSIGNIFICANT.

Unless china has a new demand created since this was written it does not impact the market function.

This is chavez baby momma drama.

Wake me up when they are steaming supertankers around the cape to deliver that oil to china. It just does not work that way.

[fascisthunter]

14. .

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

24. Funny that you said "neocons" and a certain person shows up right on cue. n/t

[Pavulon]

29. Funny how the world petroleum market

is now a political issue. The poster is ignorant to hold a position that any person or idea that does not conform to his is neo-con.

The poster is ignorant of commodity transactions, how petroleum is sold and distributed, and has no context to appreciate what they just read. The poster is ignorant to attempt to align US policy in Latin America with a single administration. The poster is ignorant to thing a fat guy in a red shirt backing china in tibet is not going to be a problem under a Democratic administration.

I could go on. But that would make me a neo-con, right?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

41. No, but seeing non-existent "commies" everywhere, your

monotonous/incoherent posts and your fixation with Hugo Chavez make you sound like one. Ask anyone here.

[spoony]

54. You showed up as well.

[lovuian]

8. Another reason we need to give up the oil addiction

its going to China who we pay with our dollars

[scratchy]

10. Yesssssssss Venezuela

USA is so yesterday

[Pavulon]

11. Truly means nothing..

it is a commodity. Unless the demand is changed they are just displacing supply. Fungible commodity. Someone had to pay more to get that product to china. China would buy and sell it back to us and buy geographically convenient product.

Exxon's annual revenue exceeds the gdp of Venezuela.

He is the dopeman he does not control demand, he is just a supplier.

[mbperrin]

51. Chinese demand changed. You mean like this?

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/03/24/business/chioil.php

Chinese demand for oil up 6.2%

BEIJING: Oil demand by China rose 6.2 percent in February, picking up the pace from a sluggish January as state-owned companies increased imports to ensure plentiful domestic supplies before the Olympics, according to data released Monday.

The increase exceeded the 3.3 percent rise in January and the 3.5 percent rate for all of 2007. Political pressure has been intensifying for the government-controlled Sinopec and PetroChina to keep their retail outlets well stocked, despite losing money by refining imported crude at prices above $100 a barrel.

"The government's policy since the last quarter of 2007 has been playing a big role to ensure supply," said Yan Kefeng of Cambridge Energy Research Associates. "Refiners were forced to slash exports and raise imports."

<snip>

In February, China increased its purchases of crude oil by 18.1 percent compared to a year earlier, matching a record set in April 2007 of 3.6 million barrels a day, official customs data confirmed Monday.

[Strelnikov_]

12. So it begins . . .

[Subdivisions]

20. Agreed. n/t

[Strelnikov_]

25. . . not with a bang, but with a relatively unnoticed event documented by 'Reuters Africa'

It's not like seismic shifts in resource geopolitics have gone unnoticed before.


1971 - The Texas Railroad Commission announced a 100 percent allowable for next month.

1972 - Application of Nixon Doctrine to Persian Gulf ~ Under the guidelines of the Nixon Doctrine, Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern and South Asian Affairs, Joseph Sisco, stated before Congress in August 1972 that U. S. interests and policies toward the region were the following:

. .

(4) Assist in the modernization of the armed forces of Iran and Saudi Arabia to enable them to provide effectively for their own security and to foster the security of the region as a whole.


1980 - Carter Doctrine ~ The Carter Doctrine was a policy proclaimed by President of the United States Jimmy Carter in his State of the Union Address on 23 January 1980, which stated that the United States would use military force if necessary to defend its national interests in the Persian Gulf region.

[fascisthunter]

15. Great Job Neo-cons

oh well... I'm sure the neo-cons will come up with a properly fucked answer to this.

[Pavulon]

16. Only problems need answers,

baby momma drama does not. Because of how the oil market functions the supplier does not control the end delivery of their product.

"at their disposal", lets see how china disposes of this unrefined crude.

[fascisthunter]

18. problems that are manufactured by Neo-cons Themselves

self-fulfillng just like with Iraq. They made that war possible....

[Pavulon]

19. different subject.. War and LA petro.

chavez has the most to gain with high prices.

[fascisthunter]

21. right...it's all Chavez's fault.... come on, Pavulon

you aren't that naive... you know our country has been screwing with Venezuela for too long. It was only a matter of time this would happen. Actions have consequences and we are seeing it all in Action.

Neo-cons fuck this country over.

[Pavulon]

28. Nothing happened, this is drama.

the entire country depends on the consumption of US oil. That is the only thing that runs the country.

As I said earlier, wake me up when they begin delivering this product physically to china. That is not how the oil market works.

Chavez is a single supplier in a sea of suppliers.

He knows he cant play animal farm without us dollars. Most of china's market is supported by the US buying shit products from them.

Wiki world economies. The size and scale of the US economy is amazing. Market corrections here dwarf other nations economies.

[KamaAina]

26. This refinery is located in the area perhaps hardest hit by Katrina

St. Bernard Parish (county), just below New Orleans, and adjacent to the Lower Ninth Ward. The entire parish flooded to the rooftops and was largely empty for nearly a whole year afterwards.

And now one of its two major employers (Murphy Oil also has a refinery there) is being used as a political football in an international dispute. Lovely.

Wait a minute, doesn't Chavez usually try to help the poor and downtrodden?

[Pavulon]

30. Luckily, like most of chavezs' chumming

this has no impact on that facility, or any real impact. He is the paris hilton of oil men. You can bet that guy will be in the news.

They did not deliver the oil to china. China has no reason to buy unrefined oil on the other side of the world and tank it in. A quick look at the globe highlights the unpleasant trip.

if chavez gave them the oil for free china would sell it and buy other oil for delivery. That oil would go right to the US.

Unless they destroy it there is no impact at all! By refusing delivery exxon is kicking che oops chavez.

As much as chavez does to disrupt the market with his mouth you would think he works for exxon or bp.

[cliss]

32. In my book, the loss of Venezuelan oil

spells disaster. No matter how minor our purchases might have been.
Re: supply. it's always been my understanding we purchased a lot more from Venezuela. I thought it was around 1 to 2 million barrels per day (?).

Either way, we are a mega - big consumer of oil. I believe it's around 20 million barrels per day. That's BARRELS not gallone.
Any disruption to that supply is going to have a cumulative....detrimental...effect on the supply.

The fact is, there is not ONE source which can be considered secure. They are all volatile.

[Pavulon]

34. It is like a lake with 20 tributaries.

the tributaries feed in to make one large pool. The tributaries cant control who dips in. So if one supplier decides to play around it makes no difference. The lake level remains the same.

Only the rate of consumption and supply are relevant. Believe me, they are far more dependant on us than we are on them.

Unless he destroys the supply it is just drama.

We do need to reduce consumption. I would happily pay $2 a gallon more for hydrogen or biofuel just to collapse the petro states and their governments. Most are aligned against us interests. Canada and Mexico not included.

That money is just flowing out of the us to other parts of the world. Like a leak in a boat, it needs to be plugged.

Sorry for bad analogies..

[cliss]

37. "They are far more dependent on us

than we are on them".

Darling, since when is the Junkie in charge of the Dealer? sorry to be so blunt about it. Venezuela is an oil producer. We (along with all the other industrialized countries) are oil consumers. Chavez can sell to whomever he wants to. I'd say Mr. Chavez has 4 Aces (I just peeked at his hand, and he's smiling).

Chavez has been wanting $100 oil for a long time now. He got his wish. Ever since that day, there has been a MASSIVE transfer of money to the oil producing nations, not just Venezuela.

I can tell you who the desperate one is in this Melodrama:smoke:

[Pavulon]

38. Seems food is going up

cant eat oil..funny how that works. Seems a food crisis in Venezuela is running. Kroger does not seem to have that problem around the corner. checked out mortgage rates? Low..

Venezuela does not run the world oil market. In reality it is a bit player.

If you have one big junkie the dealers can collude manipulate the supply but they cant just shut down the system.

Really check it out, china has not taken delivery, nor would they.

If you have a huge lake, and you live on the water and I live on the water why would you walk over to my side of the lake for the same water? Actually for water that is shittier and has to be filtered. The market does not allow it.

The market is funding animal farm for him but he does not seem to diverse.

[ret5hd]

52. Should I put this info in the same basket as "no one but the U.S. can refine Ven. oil"???

just askin'.

[Peace Patriot]

39. Background info:

NYT's Tina Rosenberg Goes to School on Venezuela's Oil, and Flunks
November 6th 2007, by Oil Wars
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/2808

Venezuela: the spectre of Big Oil
February 26th 2008, by Paul Kellogg - PolEconAnalysis
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/3201

The Wall Street Journal and Venezuela's Audacity
May 4th 2007, by Stephen Lendman
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/2368

Venezuela 1: ExxonMobil 0
March 18th 2008, by Hugh O'Shaughnessy - New Statesman
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/3282

The Struggle to Industrialize Venezuela
October 5th 2007, by Chris Carlson
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/2689

Reflections on Venezuela: Food, Health, Democracy, and a Hope for a Better World
February 7th 2008, by Fred Magdoff - MRZine
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/3128

Venezuelans See Economy and Democracy More Positively Than Other Latin Americans
January 17th 2008, by Pasqual Serrano - Rebelion.org
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/3075

---------------------

The basic idea of the Chavez government is to use its temporary advantage as an oil rich country, and member of OPEC, to bootstrap the poor and create a future. This requires, first of all, education, health care, housing and other social programs, also infrastructure development, incentives to small businesses and worker coop entrepreneurs, land reform, maximum citizen participation in government (everyone having a stake in the success of the country) and regional development and cooperation (regional trade integration, regional loans--i.e., the Bank of the South--regulating or evicting malevolent outside interests, such as Exxon Mobil and the World Bank--and regional political solidarity especially for dealing with the malevolent behemoth to the north, the corporate/war profiteer-run U.S. government).

There is no better use for Venezuela's oil profits. This is what the Chavez government is using them for--all of the above. Pavulon, upthread, sneers at Venezuela as having only one export and talks of Chavez as if he were a robber baron. The truth of the matter is that he is a visionary politician, doing all the right things to create a future for Venezuela--and for the region--which is why he enjoys widespread support in his own country and among the peoples and leaders of the region, who are mostly his friends and allies.

I urge DUers to get educated on this matter. The above list of articles is a beginning. I also recommend the Irish filmmakers' documentary, "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised," which, among other things, documents the Bush Junta's support of the attempted overthrow of Venezuela's popular, elected government, in 2002. I also recommend www.BoRev.net, both for laughs and for up to-the-minute information on current Bushite bullshite--a great web site.

You might also want to peruse this recent op-ed by Donald Rumsfeld--and do a bit of reading between the lines, regarding Oil War II: South America, which (if Rumsfeld has his way) will become a hot war this year, before Bush leaves office:

"The Smart Way to Beat Tyrants Like Chávez," by Donald Rumsfeld, 12/1/07
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/30/AR2007113001800.html

[Judi Lynn]

40. Kick.

:kick: :kick: :kick:

[Nitrogenica]

42. Venezuela says all Chalmette oil sent to China

Source: Reuters

CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuela is sending to China all the oil it previously shipped to a U.S. refinery jointly owned with Exxon Mobil amid a legal battle between the OPEC nation and the U.S. oil giant, Energy Minister Rafael Ramirez said on Friday.

"With respect to the shipments, we put them at China's disposal," Ramirez told reporters. "All of it."

Exxon and Venezuela have been in dispute over supplies to the Louisiana-based Chalmette refinery since Exxon won court orders freezing $12 billion in Venezuelan assets as part of a legal battle over compensation for Exxon assets Venezuela nationalized in 2007.

State oil company PDVSA halted supplies to Chalmette, a 50-50 joint venture that can process about 193,000 barrels per day of crude, after Exxon began rejecting some of the cargoes that Venezuela destined for the refinery.



Read more: http://africa.reuters.com/business/news/usnBAN929778.html?rpc=401&

[Stargazer99]

43. Other countries won't put up with corporate greed like we dumb

Americans

[Stargazer99]

44. Someone should have told Bush to shut up

[jimnasium]

45. Damn, that sucks!

I'm originally from Chalmette - and that town got flooded out during Katrina, and they're just starting to recover...

If this causes massive layoffs, this will be extremely bad for the recovery process.

[Voltaire99]

46. Act like a ruthless empire...

...get treated like one.

This is the price of imperial politics -- like the coffins shipped home furtively from Iraq -- and many Americans will decide it's simply too high a price.

[singilarpoint]

47. Oh no..

I will bet you that the American MSM will start giving reports about how dangerous, and evil Venezuela is being, and what a "threat" they are to the U.S.A.. I am sure Faux "news" will pick up on this with a quickness...

[dreyer]

48. monkey in the white house

We literally put a monkey (trash in the white house) in a human's job. And now we all sit around dumb founded, somehow missing the GIANT ASSHOLE DISASTER MONKEY throwing feces around. Until this is accounted for, we are just moving deck chairs around.

[sofa king]

53. So, do they have their Axis of Evil cards yet?