Pilots: Cockpit dangers being ignored

[DemoTex]

Source: CNN

Regulators have largely ignored a series of dangerous incidents in which cockpit windshields in commercial airliners shattered in midflight, sometimes forcing emergency landings, according to an American Airlines pilots' group.

Since 2004, at least 10 windshields have had problems on Boeing 757s, mostly the result of wiring problems with windshield heaters that cause smoke to fill the cockpit and sometimes make those windshields crack, according to the National Transportation Safety Board. Four incidents have been on American Airlines planes, the NTSB says.

An American Airlines flight from San Juan, Puerto Rico, to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, made an emergency landing January 30 after the cockpit filled with smoke.

The inner pane of the co-pilot's window shattered as the plane came in to land in Palm Beach, Florida. One of the crewmembers was injured by glass, and six passengers were treated for smoke inhalation.





Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/02/cockpit.windows/index.html

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I had an outer windshield shatter once, in a Lockheed JetStar-II (the one I flew for Ken Lay, but he wasn't onboard at the time). We were climbing through about 31,000 feet when the windshield shattered. It sounded like a 12-guage shotgun going off in my face.

The middle and inner layers held, so we were OK. We descended to 10,000 and returned to Houston. Our maintenance department replaced the shattered windshield and presented it to me. I still have that shattered JetStar windshield.

[TomInTib]

1. We were on the ground at DFW when a cockpit window FELL out.

And we had to sit on that Damned plane while they flew a replacement in from effing Chicago.


Good thing that window blew at 31K instead of on landing, or we wouldn't have good ol' Demo Tex to kick back with. That's the kind of crap that'll keep you on your toes.

[gateley]

2. Add this disturbing info

to that of the air traffic controllers quitting en masse, their equipment not being updated, etc.

All the money is going to Iraq.

I'd hate to have to see planes start falling out of the sky or collide to get somebody to DO something! These people voting on the cuts use the same transportation we do, don't they? Aren't they frightened? I am.

[MadMaddie]

13. This is another agency that has been starved by the *

administration at the cost of American lives.

If any planes fall out of the sky the blame should be put on the * admin for neglect.

This is just the beginning of seeing how fucked up agencies like this are?

[gateley]

15. What's galling is that

there have been reports here and there about this and other government agencies, but they've faded into the background. :grr:

[MadMaddie]

16. There is so much work that will need to be done I don't

envy our candidate.

I hope that they are already thinking about all of the agencies and who will lead each of them out of chaos.

I blame the Republicans now and forever for trying to ruin America.

[gateley]

18. I feel that regardless of what our candidate is

pre-planning for when s/he takes office, s/he will be BLINDSIDED by all that is really out there.

And yes, the Republicans. Party unity only goes so far, then you have to listen to your conscience. Too few have done that, and warrant no forgiveness in my heart, either.

[DemoTex]

3. See yesterday's LBN thread on faulty airliner parts. I see a pattern.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3251213

[saigon68]

12. That photo isn't real is it?

[DemoTex]

14. I'm told it is a PhotoShop ..

But I've seen the real deal and that's what it sometimes looks like. It is an attention-getter.

[trof]

25. Saw that on all 4 engines, Trans International DC-8 at JFK.

Sept. 8, 1970, link below, but the accident description is inaccurate.
From Wiki:
TIA was involved in a single fatal accident, involving a DC-8 cargo flight en route from John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York City to Washington Dulles International Airport. On September 8, 1970 a foreign object became wedged between the right elevator and horizontal stabilizer. The pilot failed to use the pre-flight checklist and the problem was not detected, and the aircraft crashed upon takeoff with the loss of all 11 on board.

It wasn't a cargo aircraft. Passenger charter with full cabin crew on the way to D.C. to pick up pax.

They were taking off on 13R and we were taxiing out on parallel taxiway Hotel. The 'foriegn object' was actually a chunk of runway because they were dragging the tail almost from brake release. Voice recorder indicated that with such a light load they wanted to see how fast they could get airborne. On rotation the elevator was jammed in full nose up position. They were pretty much screwed from that point.

Probably pushed all throttles to wall, got 4 compressor stalls and rollback. Flames shooting out both ends of engines. For a second it looked like they were coming down on us, but they stalled and fell off on the right wing and crashed in a ball of flame right across the runway from us. I felt the concussion.
That's a day I'll never forget.
http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/view_details.cgi?date=09081970®=N4863T&airline=Trans+International+Airlines

[Hulk]

4. de-regulation is a good thing....

Hey folks...de-regulate everything. It saves money, cuts corners and we don't need no more reckulations. Shucks, so what if the windows shatter or fall out. They can always get a new one if they make it back down in one piece.

[flashl]

5. K&R

[Parche]

6. I Love The 757

:woohoo: :woohoo: :hi:

[DemoTex]

7. Only 7 fatal Boeing 757 events in the airplane's history: all human error or terrorism.

http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/b757.htm

Events #3 & #4 on this list appear at first blush to be mechanical problems with the B-757s. However, event #4 was caused by a taped-over static port (of the pitot-static system). The aircraft had just come out of the paint shop and the tape was overlooked. Event #3 is now thought to be similar, it that nesting insects (dirt daubers) are thought to have blocked the static system after the B-757 sat idle for two weeks before the fatal flight.

Parche, try a static system on your simulator next time you have a chance. The flight instruments lie like a Bu$h!

[Parche]

8. 717

I am going back to the 717, as the 767-400 the one I had loaded was not flying correctly, very hard to navigate
the 717 is a complete joy to fly!!!

LGA-MIA-LGA.............

[DemoTex]

9. I've done that many, many times: LGA-MIA-LGA, LGA-PBI-LGA, LGA-FLL-LGA

Boeing 737-300/400 and MD-82s.

[Parche]

10. MIA

Its my 'virtual' computer airline!!
The computer calculates everything, ticket sales, passengers, cargo etc....
3flights a day, $100 one-way!! :woohoo:
Dolphin approach!!!!!! MIA
Dolphin VOR


Which did you like better, MD-80's or 737/300/400?? :shrug: :hi:

[DemoTex]

11. Boeing 737-300/400

Any day of the week! By the way, I think that EAL aircraft is a DC-9-50.


DemoTex in a B-737-300 (ca. 1989)

[fshrink]

17. That's breaking news alright!

How thick is that thing?

[DemoTex]

19. What "thing"?

BTW: When I posted it was several minutes old on CNN (see the link!).

[fshrink]

20. The windshield. How thick is it?

BTW: that was a pun (breaking ...)

[DemoTex]

21. It is laminated. Multi-layers, usually three.

The windshield on a transport category aircraft is usually heated .. full-time. That heat is for de-fog, de-ice, and bird-strike protection (a hot windshield "gives" to a bird-strike more than a cold windshield). Since windshield heat is a high-draw current user, the power source is normally wild-AC.

[babylonsister]

22. How are negotiations with American going, if I might ask? Isn't this

pretty standard, or is this an alert to a new problem? Very curious and serious. I recently read a wild fictional account of an airline that ignored safety problems, called 'Reckless Homicide'. You can guess the rest.

[skoalyman]

23. smoke

smoked filled the cockpit :scared: 

[trof]

24. Lost windshield heat, co-pilot's side, 747.

FL 350.
Outer layer spider webbed about 5-10 seconds later.
Although we knew we were OK structurally (and confirmed it in flt. handbook) and pressed on, it was a very uncomfortable feeling.
Visibility was very restricted.