Ohio Hospital Contests a Story Clinton Tells

[catgirl]

Source: New York Times

Over the last five weeks, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York has featured in her campaign stump speeches the story of a health care horror: an uninsured pregnant woman who lost her baby and died herself after being denied care by an Ohio hospital because she could not come up with a $100 fee.

The woman, Trina Bachtel, did die last August, two weeks after her baby boy was stillborn at O’Bleness Memorial Hospital in Athens, Ohio. But hospital administrators said Friday that Ms. Bachtel was under the care of an obstetrics practice affiliated with the hospital, that she was never refused treatment and that she was, in fact, insured.

“We implore the Clinton campaign to immediately desist from repeating this story,” said Rick Castrop, chief executive officer of the O’Bleness Health System.

Linda M. Weiss, a spokeswoman for the not-for-profit hospital, said the Clinton campaign had never contacted the hospital to check the accuracy of the story, which Mrs. Clinton had first heard from a Meigs County, Ohio, sheriff’s deputy in late February.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/05/us/politics/05woman.html?_r=1&ex=1365134400&en=7824b4f8ea3b363d&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin

---

Link to Huff Post (in case the NY Times link doesn't work):

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/politics/

[GodlessBiker]

1. Facts are hard.

[papau]

4. indeed facts are hard - do you believe the police - or the corporation and the media that protects?

[elocs]

2. Must have been a different woman, in another galaxy far, far away.

Or it may involve being sucked into a parallel dimension. I hate when that happens.

[Zavulon]

3. Hillary? Lying? I'm stunned.

Next she'll say she simply was fed "incorrect facts" - you know, like Bush was about the war.

[pattmarty]

5. You all are forgetting a HUGE thing here; nobody comes close to GW.

Call it distorting the truth, outright lying, or just plain simple gutter fucking bullshit, the Bushies have got that "market" cornered and Hillary is just an amateur.

[Zhade]

23. An ASPIRING amateur.

NT!

[krkaufman]

62. Bush isn't running for the Presidency and characterizing his opponent as deceitful.

This particular sHill *is* doing just that.

It's getting to the point where one can't tell the difference between a Hillary story and a post from The Onion.

[BearSquirrel2]

70. Why would I want a GW knockoff ...

Why would I want someone playing the same stupid game. Phill Gramm used to pull this crap too. Do these folks not have a large enough staff that they can't FIND good examples.

This is yet another soundbite that will be featured in a John McCain campaign commercial. Instead of shooting herself in the foot over and over, I think Hillary should aim a little higher and get this all over with.

[TrogL]

76. Logical fallacy

She's still a liar.

[AngryOldDem]

81. And that makes it okay?

Sorry, nope. In the WAKE of GW, I want something better in a president. Not a Lite version of the same.

[appleannie1]

6. Her campaign people and speech writers must be idiots or

are leftovers from the Bush administration. They can't possibly be researching the garbage they give her to spew.

[Popol Vuh]

7. No wonder why Bush likes her

Well at least she doesn't stutter.

[Yael]

8. Contacted them for accuracy?

What does accuracy have to do with a Clinton stump speech? The two are diametrically opposing concepts.

[williesgirl]

9. If running her campaign is indicative of running the country, thanks but no thanks. rec'd

[Laughing Mirror]

10. Her stories seem to be mostly dramatizations of the real story

She never lets facts get in the way of telling them. But does she even write the lines she speaks? Most actresses don't.

[nealmhughes]

11. Mae West did, produced and directed all her shows, too! Stage and soundstage.

But no one ever accused Mrs. Clinton of being a Mae West!

[krkaufman]

64. HAA!!!! You killed me, whether intended or not.

... your comment struck me as reminiscent of the old standard TV drama disclaimer...

Hillary '08 -- Based on a True Story

[raebrek]

79. lol n/t

[wpelb]

12. What's sad . . .

... is that rather than being a springboard to a discussion of how best to reform the American health-care system (which I would assume was Sen. Clinton's purpose in telling the tale), the story gives conservatives and Republicans yet another reason to tell everyone else that the Democrats are not to be trusted.

[DogPoundPup]

15. pssssssssssssst...

Hill is a republican.

But you are correct "rather than being a springboard to a discussion of how best to reform the American health-care system" Hill had to fall head over heels in love with this story (as quoted in the article...“I mentioned this story to Senator Clinton, and she apparently took to it and liked it,” Deputy Holman said, “and one of her aides said she’d be using it at some rallies.”) of a woman's tragic story who DIED that was told to Hillary by someone who knew someone that told him... INSTEAD OF CHECKING IT OUT AND GETTING HER FACTS STRAIGHT.

[SammyWinstonJack]

33. No she isn't a republican.

:eyes:

[Zhade]

35. That's correct. She's a lying, conservative. registered Democrat.

But she is not a member of the Republican party, even though some of her stances go along with it.

[DogPoundPup]

41. Can't look me straight in the eyes

when you say that huh?

[Zhade]

26. Gives a lot of Dems and progressives reasons not to trust a pathological liar, too.

She's doing it to herself through her brazen lies. Let's not forget this fact.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

13. I'm an Obama supporter, but this story is bullshit

First, Clinton got the story from a sheriff's deputy. It's her fault for maybe not checking the veracity of the story, but this doesn't change the very excellent point she was trying to make: the American health care system is a joke and people are dying because of it.

The story shouldn't be about Clinton's retelling of a falsehood, but the shockingly poor state of our health care system. I agree with the poster who points out that the republics will use this to bash all Democrats, including our presidential nominee.

[JerseygirlCT]

37. It is an excellent point, BUT she does need to check that story -

before it leaves her mouth.

This is also a non-profit hospital. Which means even more than a corporate entity, their reputation is critical to them. Try raising money when a presidential candidate is bad-mouthing the care you provide. I'm sure they've been having a tough time of it lately.

It's like hearing a story about a person you know. And then spreading that story far and wide - without checking it's veracity. Would you do that? Now how about if you had a huge stage, and thousands at the least would be listening?

[EvolveOrConvolve]

44. I don't think Clinton knew the name of the hospital

It's painful that her campaign was inept enough to not fully vet this story, especially when there are thousands of similar stories she could have used that ARE true.

And honestly, I HATE gossip, and that's essentially what "spreading a story far and wide - without checking its veracity" is. So again, I think it was irresponsible to use an unconfirmed story using a person who was the third, fourth, or fifth link in the gossip chain as the source. But I still think this hurts all Democrats and our chances of making reasonable, meaningful reforms to the awful American health care system.

[JerseygirlCT]

45. It certainly does. More reason not to speak before checking

things. You'd think with her legal training, she might be better at thinking and checking first, and speaking later...

[EvolveOrConvolve]

47. This has been a chronic and ongoing problem with her campaign

Never have I seen a presidential campaign run so poorly from the highest levels (Hillary herself) down to the underlings and the under-secretaries for underlings at the state and local levels.

Clinton's initial "aura of inevitability" has turned into an "aura of ineptitude", and many voters are seeing that.

[Zhade]

40. What's bullshit is telling a story that damages others' reputations without getting the facts first!

NT!

[EvolveOrConvolve]

43. Sure, that would be bullshit if Hillary had mentioned the hospital

when in fact it's doubtful that she even knew which hospital was involved. Like I said, it was a huge fuck up to not do a full background on the story before playing it out in front of millions of people. But it appears the hospital's name was disclosed by the hospital itself in coming out to the NY Times. Maybe I'm missing something here?

I'll reiterate: this article obscures the true story - that our national health care "system" is killing people. IMO, the story damages the credibility of all Dems who are calling for fixes to the system, and it *will* be used by the republics to bash us in the coming months.

[Zhade]

67. I agree on the larger problem (one which her plan does nothing to address, I might add).

But she was, at best, willing to repeat a story that tarnished a hospital's reputation, a hospital that did NOT turn away the mother as clinton said.

As to the bigger issue, we'll have to see what we can do with Obama once he takes office.

[BearSquirrel2]

72. And Hillary's solution ...

And Hillary's solution would be to require this woman to buy health insurance. Good job.

:wow:

[BearSquirrel2]

71. But the Pentagon told us ...

This is the same bullshit excuse as the New York Times gave in the aftermath of the war to explain their coverage. This is the same shit that Faux News uses to blast out deliberate and false smears (a great many directed against Bill Clinton). If you tell a story ... you own it. She could have given herself minimal cover by quoting the officer as opposed to telling it as fact.

Given that she would believe some random deputy, is any wonder that she made her tragic Iraq War Vote. What kind of other crap is she going to accept at face value without additional research???? Will she blast out unreliable intelligence to the public and go to war over it like the current occupant of the White House????

[orleans]

14. oh god--again? another "story?" she should really stop making shit up n/t

[JerseygirlCT]

38. From now on, every single thing she says will be examined under

a microscope. And she only has herself and her staff to blame.

[orleans]

66. i agree. n/t

[Yael]

16. Congrats for making the front page!

[rox63]

17. Her campaign staff should have checked the story out before she started using it in speeches

This is simply Politics 101 - Don't get caught saying untrue things in your speech, especially if you have staff that can get the facts for you.

[MindMatter]

34. This is just like Ronald Reagan and his welfare Cadillac stories

He just made hat shit up. He knew that he could make us stories faster than they could be dispelled.

If you are person who doesn't have much regard for the truth, it is actually a good strategy. Only a minuscule number of us will ever know that she is making this shit up, and most of us were not going to support her anyway.

A certain amount of hyperbolic liberty is expected in any campaign. If this were an isolated case, it wouldn't amount to much. The problem is that the Clintons are pathological in this sort of thing.

[McCamy Taylor]

18. This is the story the patient's family is telling. Is the family suing the hospital?

Since the hospital is not named and the patient was not named, why did the hospital come forward and name the patient and themselves? How did they know what patient she was referring to if the details do not match? The only way they would know is if they are being sued or if a complaint has been filed. If there is a suit in the works, then there must have been some problem with this woman's care and maybe lawyers told the hospital to issue a statement to cover their butts.

This story is sounding flakier the more I hear about it and it is the hospital's actions that do not sound right. Did they get the family's permission to release the patient's name and diagnosis and history to the public? Especially since their story conflicts with that of the family?

This could be a charity hospital spinning pr to get themselves out of hot water for denying care. Remember the stink in LA when a hospital denied care for a woman and she denied.

Do not be so quick to blame Hillary. Talk to the dead woman's family first.

[DogPoundPup]

19. I see, Not.!.. AS IF the hospital can make 'this up"

From the article,..."But hospital administrators said Friday that Ms. Bachtel was under the care of an obstetrics practice affiliated with the hospital, that she was never refused treatment and that she was, in fact, insured."

[DogPoundPup]

20. OH and yea, talk to the dead woman's family first...

You do it! You sound as mean and calulating as anything coming down the Shillary pike...YOU COULD DO IT! GO FIND OUT YOURSELF...Go pound on that poor dead woman's family's door and just ask 'em.

Cold, heartless McCamy huh?

[McCamy Taylor]

21. So Obama supporters are cold, heartless? They are the ones who say Hillary should have gotten the

records from the hospital and everyone knows you can not get a release for medical records unless you go to the next of kin and have them sign one.

So, while Hillary based her story on the words of a friend of the family and left out the name of the hospital and the woman so that she would not have to be totally accurate (since she did not have the record) the hospital must have badgered the family for a medical release so that they could go to the NYT and WaPo to clear their names and malign Hillary even though they were never accused by name of anything in the press.

At least, I am assuming that they got the next of kin's authorization to release this information, because if they did not , they have broken the law and will have one more thing to explain when they end up in court for medical malpractice. Which is what this is really all about.

A woman who has a still birth and who chooses to go to a different hospital two weeks later and who dies there---that is an almost guaranteed irate, angry family who believes that her first hospital and set of doctors killed her and who will be looking for justice. If this hospital chain is lucky, the family will have been told not to comment upon the advice of their attorney, which will buy the hospital a little time and then they can make a settlement with a confidentiality agreement. That is how these things are usually resolved.

[DogPoundPup]

25. Something tells me you like to exaggerate...show me where

ANYONE SAID HILL SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN THE FACTS FROM THE HOSPITAL!!!

The intent here is that she SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN MORE knowlege on the facts of this womans tragic death from the person who told her who heard it from someone BEFORE SHE GOES OUT BLAH-BLAH-BLAHHING about it! Geez...are you folks THAT DARN narrow-minded you can't think logically?

[Zhade]

27. Why in the world should we give a proven pathological liar like clinton the benefit of the doubt...

...instead of the family, of which (unlike clinton's lies) we have no evidence of falsehood on their part?

I'm not interested in being charitable to a proven liar.

[Zhade]

22. Wow, so now her lies are painting health care professionals in a bad light.

How ironic, considering her health care scam.

Can she ever just TELL THE TRUTH? Especially without shitting on others through her lies?

[eridani]

24. Sloppy fact checking is NOT the same as lying

It isn't as if there aren't hundreds of stories that are similar, but true.

[DogPoundPup]

28. Well then, that is what search engines are for...

is that so hard to do? This is why we are heading into a third world country...never mind this or nevermind that...nothing to see here...just move along...but just in case, I have a good alibi when proven wrong!

[bamacrat]

32. No, it isn't but is it worse?

Were they too lazy to check the facts, or too eager to have a good story to exploit? Im sure this has happened in some way or another, like congress leading up to the war took whatever the Bouche admin. said as true, instead of checking the facts. Or, like congress she may have known and since she had a reliable "source" that she could tout on tv or in the papers she went with the story that would benefit her the most? I'm not saying Hillary or her campaign did the latter of those two, but I do feel that the way the campaign season has been and the nature of politics today compels people to try to be the first, or have the better story that they say fuck it.

[madrchsod]

29. never vetted the story?

"Linda M. Weiss, a spokeswoman for the not-for-profit hospital, said the Clinton campaign had never contacted the hospital to check the accuracy of the story, which Mrs. Clinton had first heard from a Meigs County, Ohio, sheriff’s deputy in late February.....


"A Clinton spokesman, Mo Elleithee, said candidates would frequently retell stories relayed to them, vetting them when possible. “In this case, we did try but were not able to fully vet it,” Mr. Elleithee said. “If the hospital claims it did not happen that way, we respect that."


so hillary went with the story even though there was no verifcation.

that reminds me of someone else......

[AngryOldDem]

80. That just blows my mind.

They could not verify the story, but they went with it anyway. Never let facts...well, you know the rest.

She probably thought no one would question it because Athens is located in the poorest -- and I mean THE poorest -- part of Ohio. On face value, the story is plausible. But plausible don't make it so.

Just one more example of the arrogance that is HRC. You would think that to save herself from any embarassment she would have her staff check these things out a little better, rather than having to backpedal and spin later.

[McCamy Taylor]

30. Here is what the "facts" from the NYTs tell me---the family does not trust O’Bleness Health System

Most people who are under the care of physicians and who have been receiving care for a problem will keep using the hospital that was treating them for that problem. If the woman delivered a still birth at O’Bleness Health System but then died at a different hospital two weeks later it means one of two things.

1. She began sick so suddenly that an ambulance had to take her to the closest hospital. Normally women who can conceive and carry a child to term do not die suddenly. The family is going to wonder what the doctors at O’Bleness Health System did wrong.

2. She chose to go to a different hospital because she did not trust O’Bleness Health System.

The fact that a family acquaintance of friend told Hillary Clinton, known for her support of Universal Healthcare, this story, suggests that the family has been telling friends that there was a problem or problems with the health care delivery system that contributed to the death.

In these cases, where a death is involved, an attorney will usually be consulted. The family will be told not to talk. However, friends will talk. That is probably what happened here.

The whole story may never come out if a lawsuit is pending, since the family's silence is one of their bargaining tools in court to increase their settlement. The hospital can say whatever it wants and the family can not disagree, without losing out on the chance to increase its award. That is the problem with lawsuits.

[JeanGrey]

36. This is all fine and well but the fact remains that Hillary told us

all she died BECAUSE SHE HAD NO INSURANCE and was turned away for lack of $100. Now I don't care if she disliked the hospital or not, that has NOTHING to do with the picture that is being painted. She either died because she was refused care or not. It would not seem so, would it?

Hillary is a pathological liar and I'm sick of it.

[DogPoundPup]

39. Her OBSTETRICIAN worked out of the O’Bleness Hospital

So what she was in need of was not an obstetrician, but emergency care.

May Trina Bachtel soul rest in peace~

[rox63]

60. We have no way of knowing what the truth is

But it should be pretty easy to find out if she had insurance or not. Whatever the case, someone should have checked whether the story was true before she stuck into her speech. Especially since she got it second-hand from someone who was not a family member.

[McCamy Taylor]

31. Everyone here making an analogy between this and WMDs is acting like Karl Rove

and might as well go join the RNC and do oppo research for them.

:dem:

Because you have just made Obama's unfavorables rise three more points by next week by propelling another "Gore is a liar" myth on Hillary and you have increased her popularity with core Dems by at least 2-3 points.

Come to think of it, the RNC would not have you (except for the ones that already work for them)

[Zhade]

42. Except that, unlike Gore, clinton's lies have been documented by paper trail and video.

YOUR analogy is Rove-esque itself, since Gore never lied but clinton's been busted on several (Tuzla, NAFTA, to name only two)!

At the very best, she told a story she didn't know was true or not, one that tarnished this hospital's (and its workers') reputations. That's completely inexcusable.

[RaleighNCDUer]

58. Therefore, obviously, to way to expose her 'mistatements' and

'poorly vetted stories' is to just let her say anything she wants, because opposing them, even calling them lies, helps her.

Is today backwards day?

[SarahB]

46. I'd love to know the medical details here.

What exactly happened here?

I work in high risk ob in a large tertiary, urban hospital with a significant number of poor and uninsured patients. The doctors and nurses do not handle the financial or insurance end of things. Our goal is optimal treatment and to provide the best outcome possible to high risk moms.

Instead of pointing to the "bad" hospital people without substantiation, I would challenge Ms. Clinton to come and see how hard people like me work our butt's off to care for ALL women, regardless of the insurance or financial status, who need such specialized medicine. There's no doubt our health care system needs reform. How about starting with the insurance companies and the HMO's? How sick is a system of compensation to care providers based upon corporate profit! What about that!? Don't blame those of us who aren't making 6 and 7 figure salary bonuses (like HMO executives), but actually providing the much needed and extensive care to these women.

[madmom]

48. Hey, I can tell you some stories about Ohio hospitals that make me tend to believe the story.

[knitter4democracy]

55. Me too.

I had friends get treated in Central Ohio, and it is one horror story after another. Something about this whole thing stinks. Why did the hospital come forward, why did they reveal the patient's name (did they have permission for that?!?!), and what if Clinton's actually referring to someone else? Very odd.

[suston96]

49. Yeah cuz we all know that hospitals and other healthcare providers.....

....never turn away patients who cannot pay. Not in this great and generous country.

[McCamy Taylor]

51. Exactly. The medical industrial complex hates Hillary. Here is Gore Vidal on the subject.

talked about Washington in general. About Eleanor Roosevelt, whom I'd known and she was fascinated by. Then I began to probe, tactfully, I hope: How well did the Clintons understand just what they were up against? Did they know who actually owns and is rather idly running the United States - a very small class into which Bush had been born and trained and they had not. So, Who? What? How? I gave an example of poignant concern. In 1992 the country, by a clear majority, wanted a health service. But insurance companies, in tandem with the medical-pharmaceutical axis, have always denounced any such scheme as Communist, and so the media, reflecting as it must the will of the ownership, had decreed that such a system is not only unworkable but un-American . The ownership spent hundreds of millions of dollars on television advertisements 'proving' that under the Clinton plan each citizen would lose his own doctor and become a cipher in a computer (which he is pretty much anyway, thanks to the FBI, etc.), while its authors were guilty of everything from murder to ill-grooming.
As an old Washingtonian, I mentioned some of the ways in which the great corporate entities destroy politicians. 'It will never be on the issues. It will always be something unexpected. Something personal. Irrelevant. From long ago. Then they will worry it to death.'
'That's certainly true.' Mrs Clinton was grim. 'No story ever ends here. Even when it's over.'
I was about to suggest that if there was to be a war (as there is) between hated insurance companies and a popular plan, why not target the insurance companies publicly and go on the attack? But Paul Newman, another guest, saved Mrs Clinton from the golden treasury of my hindsight: Get Gore to tell you about the day the horse ran away with Eartha Kitt ... '

http://www.drb.ie/fa_thoughtsfrom.html

Luckily for them, the Democrats are more than happy to let the Health Insurance industry and the other members if the medical industrial complex knock out all the Dems with universal health care and select one of the ones who does not offer it.

[LaurenG]

57. No no they don't

I'm sure the health care industry doesn't hate her.

Joseph Kaczmarek/Associated Press
When she tried to overhaul the nation’s health care system as first lady, Hillary Rodham Clinton alienated some people and institutions in the health care industry by championing a huge expansion of the federal role. She provoked a fierce reaction from the industry, which mocked her proposal in television advertisements and dispatched lobbyists who ultimately helped kill the plan.
Skip to next paragraph


But times change. As she runs for re-election to the Senate from New York this year and lays the groundwork for a possible presidential bid in 2008, Mrs. Clinton is receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions from doctors, hospitals, drug manufacturers and insurers. Nationwide, she is the No. 2 recipient of donations from the industry, trailing only Senator Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania, a member of the Republican leadership.

Some of the same interests that tried to derail Mrs. Clinton’s health care overhaul are providing support for her Senate re-election bid. The Health Insurance Association of America ran the famous “Harry and Louise” commercials mocking the Clinton health care plan as impenetrably complex. Some companies that were members of that group are now donating to Mrs. Clinton.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/12/nyregion/12donate.html

[usregimechange]

50. Does it have to be true if it will help you politically?

[happygoluckytoyou]

52. IN A RELATED STORY..... THE LADY WHO DIED WAS HIT BY FLYING SHRAPNEL

[McCamy Taylor]

53. Why would she have to make up stories? They happen. Here is a famous one

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/280341/woman_dies_in_er_and_no_one_helps_her.html

Edith Isabel Rodriguez, 43, was taken to the Martin Luther King Jr.-Harbor Hospital, located in Los Angeles, for a perforated bowel on May 9, 2007. She sat in the waiting room of the hospital bleeding from the mouth and in constant pain, as dispatchers refused to take her to another hospital. She waited for 4 5minutes and the visit ended in her premature death, which according to medical experts could have been prevented had she received the proper medical treatment at an earlier time.

snip

The husband called 911 from the hospital waiting room pleading for help, but was told to have the nurses help him since he was already in a hospital and there was no need to transfer her to another facility. "They're watching her there and they're not doing anything. They're just watching her," Prado said. The husband(who was really the boyfriend) was told to get the doctors help because the Mrs. Rodriguez was already in a hospital where she could receive care.

A bystander in the hospital made another 911 call, 8 minutes later because Mrs. Rodriguez was not receiving the proper care and she needed to be taken to another hospital. The dispatcher argued that maybe it was not an emergency "I cannot do anything for you for the quality of the hospital. ... It is not an emergency. It is not an emergency ma'am," he said."You're not here to see how they're treating her," the woman replied. The bystander was outraged at the assistance she received from the dispatcher.

Finally officers, who had been asked to help with the situation, arrested Edith Isabel Rodriguez. Mrs Rodriguez never received any medical attention although it was obviously needed in order to save her life. The officers were in the process of escorting her out of the hospital in a wheelchair, when Mir Rodriguez died in their custody. She was originally being arrested by the officers for violating her parole. Edith Isabel Rodriguez leaves behind three children.

[BryMan]

54. Ok, ok now folks ease up some here

Look I'm, no HC fan my any means, but lets not get too far out of shape on this one. She should have had her ppl check this one out better true, and it's damn sloppy of them not to make damn sure this was true. But we also know they might have thought a police officer wouldn't just pull their legs either. I know this was bad, and will cause bad press in light of the sniper story...fable...ok just plain lie LOL, but it was a good story and probably has some roots in actual american experiences with healthcare, or lack thereof. So lets not get all go for the throat political here, but HC really needs to vet this shit instead of gobbling up everything, and embelishing as well.

[knitter4democracy]

56. This story stinks.

I may not be a Hillary supporter, but this story doesn't pass the smell test. The hospital came forward and revealed the patient's name? Did they have permission for that? How did they know the story referred to that particular patient? Something stinks here.

[Pamela Troy]

59. Do any of you have any idea how much you are playing into

the hands of the Republicans?

They don't even need Karl Rove any more. Hillary haters drunk with contumely will provide their talking points for them.

From an Obama Supporter.

[DogPoundPup]

61. First...Hillary is a republican

Second...She will not win the nomination unless she steals it.

Third...if she cheats and does win? Well hell, then there is no difference between her and McSame (afterall, if she loses, she's campaigned for all her supporters to give their vote to McSame.)

And fourth, if she cheats, takes the nomination, I'm leaving the democratic party after 30 years of being a dem.

[Pamela Troy]

77. Yeah, yeah, I heard the same kind of crap from Nader supporters

back in 2000. "There's no difference between Gore and Bush," we were told.

How did that work out?

If you walk away in a huff because Hillary has won the nomination, count yourself among the Americans we can thank for another four years of Republican rule.

I certainly will. So will many others.

[krkaufman]

63. Ummm... are we supposed to stick our heads in the sand and ignore news stories ...

... that criticize Democratic candidates? This isn't some hit or propaganda piece, it's another report of a tall tale having been told by Clinton, and if the Clinton campaign is telling us to worry about the potential effects of Rev. Wright in the GE campaign, then we sure as hell better consider how Hillary's fanciful fairy tales would play-out in a GE campaign.

Thanks for the thoughts, though.

[Pamela Troy]

78. How about just avoiding the hyperbole and the venom?

Think you can do that? Or is guzzling hate like a Freeper just too much fun? Does the loathing go down smooooooooth as you tilt it back and take a nice long swig? Make you feel tough and powerful and smart?

[krkaufman]

83. Hyperbole and venom?

Consider the posts...

Exhibit A: Link to Huff Post (in case the NY Times link doesn't work)

Exhibit B: Ummm... are we supposed to stick our heads in the sand and ignore news stories that criticize Democratic candidates? This isn't some hit or propaganda piece, it's another report of a tall tale having been told by Clinton, and if the Clinton campaign is telling us to worry about the potential effects of Rev. Wright in the GE campaign, then we sure as hell better consider how Hillary's fanciful fairy tales would play-out in a GE campaign.

Exhibit C: How about just avoiding the hyperbole and the venom? Or is guzzling hate like a Freeper just too much fun? Does the loathing go down smooooooooth as you tilt it back and take a nice long swig? Make you feel tough and powerful and smart?

If you'd replied to some offensive post or comment extrapolating the NYT story into some grander delusionment theory, it would be one thing, but neither the LBN OP (A), to which you originally replied, nor my comment (B) contained any of the hyperbole or venom that you decry -- but seem to employ quite liberally, yourself (C).

I believe I agree with you that negativity will gain us nothing, but your posts seem misdirected, here, a bit friendly fire-ish, as well as not exactly practicing what you preach.

[ernestv]

65. Hey, what day is it?

Whatever day, everyday is bash Hillary day... or is that every hour...
for those who are tired of it I would suggest...
http://thedemocraticdaily.com/
But I'm sure this post will get deleted...

[Zhade]

68. If you want it to stop, get her to stop lying so much.

Pointing out the truth about her lies isn't bashing.

[Alexander]

69. Hillary Clinton lied? I am shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

:sarcasm:

[Taxmyth]

73. Didn't this come up during her 1st Senate run?

I remember this story.

[LisaL]

74. dupe

[LisaL]

75. Hillary did not name neither the hospital nor the woman.

The hospital comes forward, says the story isn't true, but yet because of "privacy concerns" won't give out the details of what exactly happened to the woman.
The woman's dead, but she did not die in that hospital, she died in Columbus.
So, may I ask, WTF?

[mbperrin]

82. If the hospital violates HIPAA standards, why wouldn't they lie?

I've got a real problem with unethical medical providers. These medical folks cannot divulge what they have already done under HIPAA rules.

Here's the decision tree on whether to disclose deceased patient PHI or not:

http://www.cap.org/apps/docs/hipaa/deceased_patient_requests_combined.pdf

You cannot make media requests fit under here at all.

So I am to trust an unethical medical provider? No, thanks.