US Olympic torch relay descends into farce

[KeepItReal]

Source: Times Online

The procession of the Olympic torch through San Francisco descended into farce today when the flame-holders ran only a few yards before disappearing into a warehouse, then re-emerging on a bus.

...

Two hours before the procession was expected to begin, The Times witnessed first hand the tension between pro-Tibet groups and Chinese demonstrations, some of whom had reportedly been bused in by the Chinese embassy. One man, red faced and screaming and waving a 'Free Tibet' flag, was hauled out of the crowd by black-uniformed police and thrown into the back of a riot van. The police were immediately surrounded by a chanting mob shouting, "Free him now! Free him now!"

...

The stand-off ended when dozen more officers arrived, each one armed with what looked like long, thin black baseballs bats. Meanwhile, the pro-Tibetans became distracted by a group of pro-Chinese demonstrators waving red flags. The two groups stood face-to-face, shouting their slogans at each other.

It was later reported that an American man who challenged the Chinese, calling them 'Communists', had been beaten up.

Read more: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/olympics/article3716291.ece

[MADem]

1. Hopefully SNL will take a 'crack' at it, then....NT

[stimbox]

2. The lone freeper was beaten up... LOL

"it was later reported that an American man who challenged the Chinese, calling them 'Communists', had been beaten up."

"...a San Francisco man named Kevin Johnson, 48, walked into a crowd of torch supporters and began yelling, "Communists!"
The crowd encircled Johnson and the confrontation escalated when Johnson pulled a Chinese flag off a man's backpack. Then, someone grabbed Johnson's throat and another person punched him in the face before police intervened and walked him to safety.
"I know it sounds racist, but if they want the Olympics in China they should go back to China," he (Johnson) said."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/04/09/MNDS102IIM.DTL&tsp=1

[Earth_First]

5. I find it a travesty that anyone was subjected to violence...

regardless of political affiliation.

What I find even more appalling is that the individuals in attendance in solidarity against the Chinese aggression against the people of Tibet would resort to violence.

[stimbox]

6. Sounds like that dude was asking for it. n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

7. You think he was a masochist?

Please, please tell me you don't approve of people being beaten up for expressing a view you don't agree with.

[stimbox]

13. Violence only in self-defense.

Re-read the quote.
He assaulted someone in the Chinese group first.
He may not have been a masochist, but it sounds like he was looking to start shit.

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. Not self-defence

"Johnson pulled a Chinese flag off a man's backpack"

You might stretch a point and call that criminal damage, but there's no assault there. Responding to that by grabbing his throat, and punching him in the face, is the act of thugs, and can in no way be condoned by any reasonable person.

[stimbox]

21. That is self-defense.

Someone runs up to you yelling insults and grabs something of yours off of your person.
The guy who fought back was acting in self defense. I would have done the same thing.
The freeper guy was the thug in this case.

[xioaping]

24. I agree.

He is a thug.

[muriel_volestrangler]

32. No, your backpack is not your person

Tearing a flag off a backpack is not assault. And more than one person was beating this guy up - one held him, while another punched him in the face. That's not self-defence - it's assault, by multiple people. 'Yelling insults' has nothing to do with it either. That's free speech, remember?

[stimbox]

33. Yes, it is assault according to the law and dictionary definitions.

Free speech has nothing to do with someone ripping your flag off of your backpack that you are wearing.
Any reasonable person wouldn't be so foolish to run up to a group of people shouting insults and rip a flag off of someone's backpack.
The guy wearing the back pack had no idea what the fool yelling at him and ripping his flag off of his backpack was capable of.
The guy is lucky that he only got grabbed and punched. Notice how the cops escorted him away and not the other way around?

as·sault
Pronunciation:
\ə-ˈsȯlt\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English assaut, from Anglo-French, from Vulgar Latin *assaltus, from assalire
Date: 14th century
1 a: a violent physical or verbal attack b: a military attack usually involving direct combat with enemy forces c: a concerted effort (as to reach a goal or defeat an adversary)
2 a: a threat or attempt to inflict offensive physical contact or bodily harm on a person (as by lifting a fist in a threatening manner) that puts the person in immediate danger of or in apprehension of such harm or contact — compare battery
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/assault

Assault/Battery

In most states, an assault/battery is committed when one person 1) tries to or does physically strike another, or 2) acts in a threatening manner to put another in fear of immediate harm. Many states declare that a more serious or "aggravated" assault/battery occurs when one 1) tries to or does cause severe injury to another, or 2) causes injury through use of a deadly weapon. Historically, laws treated the threat of physical injury as "assault", and the completed act of physical contact or offensive touching as "battery," but many states no longer differentiate between the two.
http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/a-z/assault_battery.html

Self-Defense - Legal Definition - Black's Law Dictionary
The protection of one's person or property against some injury attempted by another. The person is justified in the use of force against an aggressor when, and to the extent it appears to him, and he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or another against such aggressor's imminent use of unlawful force. One who is not the aggressor in an encounter is justified in using a reasonable amount of force against his adversary when he reasonably believes: (a) that he is in immediate danger of unlawful bodily harm from his adversary, and (b) that the use of such force is necessary to avoid the attack, (i.e., one threatening only bodily harm), and to use deadly force against his non-deadly attack.

Self-Defense - California Jury Instruction Code Section 5.30
The following is read to jurors who sit on criminal court cases in California involving defendants who have been charged with assault and battery (CPC 240 - 242) and are claiming self-defense.

"It is lawful for a person who is being assaulted to defend himself/herself from attack, if, as a reasonable person s/he has grounds for believing and does believe that bodily injury is about to be inflicted upon him/her. In doing so, that person must use all force and means which s/he believes to be reasonably necessary and which would appear to a reasonable person, in the same or similar circumstances, to be necessary to prevent the injury which appears to be imminent."

[muriel_volestrangler]

34. "bodily injury", "bodily harm", "injury" - not the case here

And holding someone down and punching them in the face is not a reasonable way of protecting your backpack. You can justify grabbing hold of their arms to stop the tearing of the flag, but punching someone in the face is a serious offence.

"Notice how the cops escorted him away and not the other way around?" - no, they "walked him to safety". Because when a member of the public is being assaulted by being punched in the face, the police's first job is to get them safe. That the story got a quote from Johnson is a good indicator he wasn't arrested.

I'm appalled you think it's OK to punch someone in the face, for tearing a flag off a backpack.

[stimbox]

35. Be appalled. It does fit both definitions.

"The protection of one's person or property against some injury attempted by another. The person is justified in the use of force against an aggressor when, and to the extent it appears to him, and he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or another against such aggressor's imminent use of unlawful force."

[muriel_volestrangler]

36. I'm astounded that a reader of "People's Weekly World"

regards property as justifying physical violence. Or is it just the word 'communist' that turned you against the victim? If he'd ripped a US flag off a backpack, shouting "capitalist", would you still be advocating punching him in the face?

The point is that the force required to stop a flag being ripped of a backpack is holding someone's arm - not holding them while punching them in the face, which could put the victim in hospital, or knock them unconscious. It might even kill them. All that for a piece of cloth? Not very communist, I'd say.

[stimbox]

37. Regardless of what you think, the guy was in the wrong.

Whatever I read has really nothing to do with the issue.
And if the tables were turned I don't think you'd be making an issue of it either.
Nice try though.

The issue is being assaulted and the right to defend yourself or another person.
The person felt threatened and responded accordingly.

Have a nice day.

[muriel_volestrangler]

38. 'If the tables were turned'?

No, I object to anyone getting beaten up for tearing off any flag. I'm still unclear if you'd object if it was an American flag.

The people responded to a non-violent protest with significant violence. And the issue here is your defence of that violence. You seem to think that it's OK to punch people in the face.

[stimbox]

39. Ripping a flag off is not non-violent.

If you ripped a flag off of my backpack after screaming at me, I would defend myself.

I am not a pacifist.

If a leftie did that to a group of righties, I would say he was a fool and he got what he deserved.

Satisfied?

[muriel_volestrangler]

40. You're consistent in your wish for people being punched, yes

but I can't call that satisfactory.

[stimbox]

41. No, I'm consistant on the issue of self-defense.

Have a nice day. :hi:

[girl gone mad]

9. Yeah..

that's the excuse that rapists use, too.

Free expression should never be met with violence. That's simple cowardice.

[stimbox]

14. Putting your hands on someone is now free expression?

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[AlphaCentauri]

15. those were chinese agents lol

[xioaping]

23. What an ass!

"...a San Francisco man named Kevin Johnson, 48, walked into a crowd of torch supporters and began yelling, "Communists!"
The crowd encircled Johnson and the confrontation escalated when Johnson pulled a Chinese flag off a man's backpack. Then, someone grabbed Johnson's throat and another person punched him in the face before police intervened and walked him to safety.
"I know it sounds racist, but if they want the Olympics in China they should go back to China," he (Johnson) said."

[sfnative]

30. Goofy supervisors

"Gavin Newsom runs San Francisco the way the premier of China runs his country - secrecy, lies, misinformation, lack of transparency and manipulating the populace," Peskin said. "He did it so China can report they had a great torch run."

I think that line is hilarious. Peskin is a supervisor whose district includes one of the largest Chinatowns in United States. In one fell swoop, he alienated 20% of the city's population. Good thing his term is up.

[Betsy Ross]

3. After the opening ceremony

the torch was bused across town to a new, unpublished route leaving the demonstrators miles away. The final ceremony was moved from McCovey Cove (near AT&T Park) to the San Francisco Airport.

[MindMatter]

4. To hell with the Olympics

Talk about a thoroughly corrupt organization and a completely pointless commercial exercise. That is the Modern Olympics.

All this ceremony about a fake torch with a "perpetual flame" is nothing more than cynical marketing -- promotion for this multi-billion dollar media circus. The marketers are probably happy to see the protests. That's more publicity than they deserve.

[JohnyCanuck]

10. I agree.

It's all part of the bread and circuses game. "Oh geez, we are running short on bread, what're we gonna do? I know, lets distract 'em for as long as we can with another circus."

If the flipping torch was running past my front door. I doubt I'd even open the door to take a look.

[Ilsa]

19. Farce is correct and so are you two. This exercise in athletics

may make the families feel good about their champions, but I think it's bogus. I'd rather see an olympic event for alternative fuels or feeding the world food and clean water.

[xioaping]

25. Yea, all that is needed is potlics. Forget sports

[MindMatter]

28. I'd love to see sports played for the love of it

That was the original Olympic concept, and even the modern Olympics had a strong element of true amateur competition for many decades. And I mean amateur in the true sense of the word, not mediocre, but something done at a very high level for the love of it.

It was the spirit of competition for the love of it that made these things worth watching and usually far more compelling than any of the professional sports shoved down our throats.

How far the Olympics have fallen. Now it is just a thoroughly corrupt political mess, and the competitions are no longer compelling because they are either loaded with high-priced professionals or rendered completely bogus because of all the performance enhancing drugs.

[xioaping]

29. I think I have to agree with you

The professional atheletes have ruined it. You said it better than I could so I'll leave it at that.

[bean fidhleir]

8. "black-uniformed police"?? Who would those be?

I wasn't aware that any police force in western countries has black uniforms. I thought the SS made that color unpopular for cop suits.

[ronnykmarshall]

12. Excuse me, but one of my best friends is a SF Sheriff Depute

and she's not an "SS".

[bean fidhleir]

16. And their uniforms are black?

Does SF mean San Fran County?

[ronnykmarshall]

17. Yes, San Francisco.

And the uniforms they normally use are green. I believe when they have to go out on patrol (which they normally don't) they use black ones.

[stimbox]

27. SFPD's uniforms are dark, dark blue. They look almost black.

The SFPD's riot squad uni's are black.

[hatrack]

11. The Dick Cheney Olympics - the torch traveling to an undisclosed location, black-clad guards . .

Sheesh.

[Javaman]

18. why we even still have an olympic torch "relay" is still beyond me.

it was started by the Nazi's for the 1936 olympics to try and somehow connect the Olympic Greek god type athletes of old to the Nazi "master race".

So exactly what "tradition" are we celebrating with this bullshit?

[xioaping]

26. Torch relay history short version since you asked.

Commemorating the theft of fire from the Greek god Zeus by Prometheus, its origins lie in ancient Greece, when a fire was kept burning throughout the celebration of the ancient Olympics. The fire was reintroduced at the 1928 Summer Olympics in Amsterdam, and it has been part of the modern Olympic Games ever since. The relay of the flame from Greece to the site of the modern games had no ancient precedent and was introduced by Carl Diem, with the support of Adolf Hitler, at the controversial Berlin Olympics as a means to promote Nazi ideology

[xioaping]

22. End all Olympic Games. No country

is without another country having reason to protest. Either that or have the Olypics in the U.S. and every country that loves the U.S. can participate. U.S. can get all the medals and then we can all hear the U.S. national anthem only. Why didn't I think of it sooner!

[Amonester]

31. Or keep Olympic Games where they where. No country.

Keep Olympic Games In Greece

No Country. Only Women And Men. No Flags. No Politics.

And.No.Drugs.

[conspirator]

42. FUCK the olympics. These days is just a corporate business, just like the soccer world cup

I find disgusting that sports events, that should promote healthy lifestyles can accept sponsorship from mcdonalds.