Man Claims CIA Tortured Him, Goes to International Court

[Hissyspit]

Source: Associated Press

Man claims CIA tortured him, goes to international court

WASHINGTON (AP) — A German citizen thwarted in the U.S. courts is taking his allegations of abduction and torture at the hands of the CIA to the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights. On Wednesday, the American Civil Liberties Union petitioned the commission on behalf of Khaled el-Masri, saying the U.S. government should be called on to apologize for its treatment of el-Masri and that the CIA's anti-terrorism rendition program should be found unlawful.

The commission, headquartered in Washington, D.C., is an autonomous organ of the Organization of American States of which the United States is a member. A German of Lebanese descent, el-Masri says he was abducted in December 2003 at the Serbian-Macedonian border and flown by the CIA to Afghanistan and abused as part of the administration's rendition program.

The Bush administration invoked the state secrets privilege in el-Masri's case, shutting him out of the U.S. court system. The Supreme Court last year refused to hear his case. The CIA declined to comment about the petition filed on el-Masri's behalf by the ACLU.

President Bush and others have confirmed the existence of the CIA's rendition program, but the facts central to el-Masri's claims "concern the highly classified methods and means of the program," the government said. By refusing to hear el-Masri's case, the high court passed up an opportunity to review the doctrine of state secrets, which critics say this administration has used more frequently than its predecessors.

Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-04-09-el-masri_N.htm?csp=34

[happygoluckytoyou]

1. I HAVE IT ON THE HIGHEST AUTHORITY...

that america does not torture...

we cannot help it if some "citizen" of some "country" thinks that a few hours of waterboarding, some beatings and maybe a bit of naked playtime is "torture"

what a wuss...

[Diclotican]

2. Hissyspit

Hissyspit

Good it is a start.. We have to remember that in 1987, an american soldier in absteina was judged to have being criminal, and was judged guilty by Haag.. And this was before the International Criminal Court was been sett up.

But I guess whatever happened, the american public, and the american government would not accept that they have being some wrong, and that torture are more revenge, than "information gartering":. Even if you have had seen it on 24....

I really Hope, that this criminal gang, US have in their midst would be judged criminal, and have to do something er replace what this man lost. He was over 5 year in prison, even long after the american military was proven that he was Innocent.. Much same that the KGB of Soviet, and other dictatorship in the east european was doing it.

But no, US are a democracy isn't it:sarcasm:

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language

[Sinistrous]

8. I don't want anybody to apologize for torture.

I just want all guilty parties to be convicted and incarcerated.

Sinistrous

[pocoloco]

13. convicted and incinerated.....

whoops, my bad

[ClayZ]

3. K and R

[bdamomma]

4. this story is not that far fetched, I hope those who were tortured

unfairly will come forward to tell their stories.

[Vinca]

5. I hope there is a way to get from an apology to a war crimes tribunal. nt

[gratuitous]

6. Our Supreme Court refused to hear his case

I wonder which of the heretofore undiscovered original intents of the founding fathers was invoked to justify that? I don't see a "state secrets privilege" lurking in the penumbra of any of the enumerated rights of the Constitution that allows our country to avoid answering an allegation of such an infamous crime as abduction and torture of foreign nationals.

[LiberalFighter]

10. They probably use the Alien and Sedition Acts

Which was I believed was found unconstitutional or at least revoked when Madison was elected.

[klyon]

15. it had a sunset provision

expired when Adams left office I think

[Gonnuts]

7. So?

So we kidnap and torture innocent people. What are you going to do about it? Yeah, we're doing something highly illegal and we're using the courts and system to block prosecution, so what? Yes the whole world now looks upon us as a terrorist nation and we do nothing to discourage that notion other than to mutter empty meaningless phrases such as "spreading freedom". If this is freedom I don't want any part of it.

So now all of you can see just how rotten to the core your government is - and that includes Democrats who refuse to hold these murderous cretins accountable and judges, prosecutors, law enforcement and those of you who have sat when you should of taken a stand.

This so-called government commits crimes with impunity and if anyone should try to hold them accountable this firewall of "states secrets" or "national security" blanket lets criminals roam free to commit more atrocities.

[Pappy]

9. Ah yes, more criminal bahaviour from our illustrious leader

Does anyone hear consider the CIA to be a criminal organization?

[Ganja Ninja]

11. I hope this is the first step in a long journey that will end with ...

George W Bush sitting in a cell in the Hague for the rest of his life.

[bluesmail]

12. K&R

Is this the guy on 60 minutes a few weeks back?

[pleah]

14. I would like to see Godless Warmongering Bastard and his cronies,

jailed and subjected to the same "we don't torture" standards that they have inflicted on others.

[JJLP1580]

17. Godless?

I've heard many people criticize President Bush for many things; but being "godless" was never one of them. I was under the impression that people were concerned about how much of a "Jesus-freak" George W. Bush is.

Government sponsored torture is inhumane and cruel, and it is something that WE, as a united, ethical, and moral people, have condemned.

But it seems like you all believe the CIA, George Bush, and anyone else within spitting distance of this administration is pure evil. Do most of you agree with Rev. Wright's comments about America's "chickens coming home to roost?" Are we such evil, torturing warmongers that we're now reaping what we've been sowing?

Is there no room for discussing how America has been FORCED to torture because of the PSYCHOTIC and BARBARIC tactics of jihadists?

Isn't there some middle-ground where it's OK to defend our country? After all, couldn't one make a compelling argument that these "godless" members of our CIA are "torturing" in order to protect...YOU? The only reason I put quotes on "torture" is because there are different types of torture. Waterboarding does not inflict permanent physical damage. It is, dare I say, a more "humane" form of torture.

The CIA could just start cutting off fingers, toes, bamboo shoots behind the nails, medical surgery and experimentation without anesthesia, or just basic physical mutilation of any sort. I would argue that America's method for torturing is to extract information; some of those other methods I mentioned, popular amongst the Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, and Nazi's, involved the PSYCHOTIC MUTILATION of human beings for the sake of instilling fear.

The bottom line is: We Americans condemn torture because we value and respect human life, OF ANY TYPE. The reality is; not all people on this planet feel that way. We adhere to the Geneva Convention rules while we fight war, meanwhile jihadists are decapitating, dismembering, castrating, and booby-trapping our soldiers.

There is no moral equivalence here. I wish you all could see that our greatest enemies are not in the White House, at West Point, in Annapolis, in Langley, or at NORAD. The sooner you figure that out, the better off we'll all be.

We are the UNITED States of America...must we loath all that we are, and all that we've accomplished for mankind? Or are we just the scourge of the earth? Or maybe just conservatives?...

[Amonester]

18. Who would Jesus torture?

What do you fear?

Get help.

[JJLP1580]

20. Interesting response...

Jesus teaches us to turn the other cheek. I was raised Catholic, and I believe in essence of His teachings. President Bush also believes in the power of man (and Jesus) to forgive transgressors...but President Bush also has sworn to protect every one of us against enemies, both foreign, and domestic.

Would you have our President turn the other cheek to those that wish to destroy our country, its people, and its principles? Again, like I had said above, are not those evil doers in the White House, the CIA, the FBI, the NSA, the Air Force, the Marines, etc. etc. etc...are they not putting themselves in harms way for YOUR BENEFIT?? From your response, it doesn't seem as though you really addressed much of what I said. You asked me what I fear...I believe that I spoke plainly above as to what frightens me. And it's fairly obvious what most of you all fear...the CIA, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Oil, and..."conservative" values? It is my contention that you fear conservatism more than you do radical Islam.

And by the way...Jesus was tortured, mutilated, humiliated, and murdered...is that the fate that you wish our country and its citizens to meet? Jesus didn't/wouldn't torture anyone, for He is the Son of God. He allowed humans to sin against Him and the Father in order to grant us salvation. But it is foolish to pretend that we are not allowed to defend ourselves because of Jesus' teachings. You are reaching for straws with that...especially because President Bush is a Christian, and believes in the Word of the Lord. President Bush is not an evil war monger...for goodness sake, there are plenty of REAL despots, murders, tyrants, thugs, lunatics, and evil men ruling people ALL OVER THE WORLD.

Meanwhile, you're in America, writing blogs on the internet about how our government is full of baby killing satanists. Yup, George Bush, conservatives, and the CIA should be #1 on your "To Fear" list.
Can't you see how you're just ignoring the things that REALLY scare you? Or are you just praying that your captors will be merciful?

Let me tell you a little secret...Daniel Pearl received no such mercy. Unless you consider your head being cut off by a blunt-edged hunting knife "mercy".

[newspeak]

21. oh, please

many on this board know who Daniel Pearl is and they also know about the ISI--and many know that Gen. Mahmoud (sp.) from Pakistan wired Atta $100,000 before the hit on 9/11. Fear???? Sorry, everyone around here is in fear burnout. Just the numbness setting in after all the lies; terror, terror fear alerts; mega corruption raiding the treasury, money missing in Iraq (did I mention it was our money?); no-bid contractors serving our soldiers bad food and tainted water and US women getting raped by corporate goons (did I mention it's with our money?); no-bid contractors who don't have to follow the Geneva Convention murdering innocent women and children (with our money).

Oh, and by the way, I'm more of a conservative that this administration--after all, I believe in conserving our treasury, conserving lives; conserving our Constitution; conserving our environment; conserving our infrastructure. So, maybe you can tell me what * has conserved lately?

[JJLP1580]

24. Oh, please...

A 9/11 conspiracy theory...yup, you live in fear alright.

I'm sorry that everyone here is in "fear burnout". I'm sorry that our government created a system to alert the public of threats to our country, and that it's become a joke to most people. You are numb? Numb from the LIES...Oh, I see...the decapitations, the castrations, the daily calls for the destruction of Western Civilization...that stuff doesn't bother you. It's the "lies" that are getting your goat!!

I don't live in a state of fear...but I do live in reality. Do you?

And to answer your last question...

We've conserved our existence, for one. We've conserved our position as the sole leader on planet earth. We've conserved our position as having the best, most highly trained, most well equipped, and most battle-hardened military on planet earth. We've conserved our way of life.

Now we need to figure out how to conserve energy and the environment, while still staying vigilant in defense of humanity.

[newspeak]

26. actually, I do live in reality

not *'s reality--you do remember the speech where he stated that they were going to create their reality. Don't you??? Let's see, I mention 9/11, and since it's mentioned you think you'll denigrate with that little old word "conspiracy." You really need to get your head out of the dirt and do some reading. I want to know if you have ever been in the military--do you think our men and women should be doing three and four tours in Iraq? In Vietnam, it was two tours and you were finished, but not this military FU. Of course, little chickenhawks who have gained profit from war, but had more important things to do than serving--like starting wars based on untruths--they're all for grandstanding as long as it's not their life on the line. Let's see, most highly equipped-when soldiers had to hunt for scrap metal in Iraq to put on their vehicles for protection or the vests being bought by friends and family for soldiers who were not provided with them. You mean that well-equipped? I've heard arguments that our soldiers volunteered, so it's okay for them to serve three or four tours---what are they to you? You call them battle hardened like it was some kind of word used for a thing-a machine. These men and women have seen and experienced horrors and those with a conscience will live with it for the rest of their lives. They have lost limbs, and some have lost their very existence. Their families have been split, some, their children will never know them. Yet, you seem to think it's 'RAW, RAW, RAW for the home team. These men and women joined the service for various reasons, some for education, some for medical benefits--and they depended on their CIC to not lead them unnecessarily in harms way. But, that is what has happened--over coveting oil, over war profiteering, over many wrong things; but not over WMD, not over liberating the people (unless it's killing them). I am in reality!!!!

[Q3JR4]

30. We have a government that

has imprisoned innocent people and denied them the right to petition the courts for their release. We have a government that has overruled constitutional provisions (specifically the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, and 10th amendments) in an attempt to make the citizens of this country "safer." Simply put this government has in no way "conserved our way of life." If anything it has destroyed our way of life.

I would argue, further, that by rounding up innocent men, women, and children, placing them into camps for years without formal charges, and then torturing them, we've given up the very humanity you claim that we must protect.

The world is a scary place. This country has enemies who would see us fall. But by giving in to our baser instincts we have destroyed any morality we may have used to combat those enemies on the world stage. Everything we have done in the name of our own security can and will be used against us in the future.

Frankly, we deserve nothing better.

Q3JR4
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
Without justice, courage is weak.

[Amonester]

29. In my opinion, your posts R total BS (evil) propaganda.

Try to find the truth by reading, or seek help, and get it.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

[JJLP1580]

37. Wow...

My posts are "(evil) propaganda"?

Do you know the meaning of the word "evil"? Do you know the meaning of the word "propaganda"? I think not, on both accounts.

You don't have to be scared, there are people out there protecting you. The best people, in fact.

"People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues." - George Will

[newspeak]

19. yes, we are the United States of America

who, it seems, are mirroring those that we claim we are fighting. All know that Saddam was a bad man, tortured his own people, yet how many have been tortured since our invasion at Abu Ghraib (sp)? The very same place where Saddam's goons tortured. Women and children held for hostage, attempting to force the father to speak. And, those that are innocent, that have nothing to tell, will they tell a lie to ease the torture? Recently, an ex-CIA was on the TV stating that torture is unreliable, torture does not work, yet, we still have those in this country that excuse it. It seems the Inquisition worked so well, too. I mean, all those women trafficking with the devil, and we'll ease your torture if you just tell us who else is trafficking with the evil one.

I will not make excuses for such a heinous thing like torture. Yes, I am an American who was raised on honor and morality, that some would use excuses to taint. After 9/11, instead of finding those who actually initiated the attack and seek justice through our judicial system-our government chose to proclaim another war-a war on terror. What hollow words to bully us into a pre-planned agenda. And, it was an agenda, just look at the PNAC goals. I do not believe in bullying citizens that had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the attack on us. I do not believe in stealing someone's resources. I AM AN AMERICAN and as such, have done my duty as a citizen to read as much information as possible, to make reasonable decisions as to what exactly is going down in this country. Maybe, you should try becoming better informed-might want to start on Cheney's secret energy meeting--then read up on business dealings with Saddam and the Taliban. Then, maybe you can read about how close this administration is with SA, and how we basically closed a main base in SA, just what OBL wanted and attacked Iraq (another OBL wet dream), and all that chaos giving us more terrorists to handle (great AlQaeda recruiting tool). A democratic government can not survive under a veil of secrecy by its leaders. "Secrecy is a tool for tyrants." I am an American who believes first and foremost in the defense and protection of the Constitution of the United States and the Bill of Rights. Without these documents, we are just another Banana Republic. So, how's that going for you. I mean the suspension of habeas corpus? You think that's only for those evil terrorists?

[JJLP1580]

23. NO MORAL EQUIVALENCY

So now we are "mirroring" our enemy? Let me ask you: when was the last time the CIA or American soldiers decapitated a non-combatant on videotape? When was the last time that President Bush's daughter's oversaw the dipping of wounded prisoners into septic tanks? When was the last time that American citizens captured members of an opposing religion and brutally murder them?

It is COMPLETELY FALSE to compare the use of waterboarding to any of these tactics. Read my original post again: I condemned torture, and I spoke about why we condemn it. I also spoke about the Geneva Convention rules, and how we adhere to them, while our enemy hides behind civilians!! And yet we are branded as cowardice warmongers...

Please, I'll let you know the next time the CIA picks me up off of the street corner and takes me in for some torture. You all honestly believe that we're just plucking these "innocent" people out of nowhere, just to detain them and torture them for 5 years on taxpayer money, just to let them go, so they can turn around and file chargers against the U.S. government? Don't be so blatantly obtuse. If you were captured by another country under suspicion of espionage or treason, I would hardly believe for a second that you'd be afforded any type of humane treatment.

I'm glad that you all are willing to stand up for those who have had their rights violated...that is a very American, a very worthy thing to do. But what about standing up for the rights of your fellow Americans who have been murdered or tortured by other nations, other leaders, and other war mongers?

[newspeak]

25. so, we are merely water boarding them

must be like some frat prank. Yes, we have rounded up people, not knowing if they were innocent or guilty and imprisoned them. We took them to Guantanamo--at least those who survived. So, you never read the rounding up of Afghanistanis, putting them in a metal container to ship them, without water--some died from heat and dehydration. Never heard that story? I mean water boarding isn't like bamboo under the nails, hey? Yet, after WWII, we hanged officers from Japan for water boarding. Under this administration our military has become even more privatized. It is not just the military doing these interrogations, it is intel corporations hired who do not seem to adhere to any law, especially the Geneva Convention. I refuse to lockstep and justify becoming a sociopath--justifying an immoral act by pointing a finger while yelling "see, they're doing horrible things, so we should do horrible things, too." A country who loses the moral high ground and abandons the rule of law, becomes a land lead by hatred, fear, ignorance and corruption.

You know, I wonder how old you are. I'm sure you remember paranoid Nixon and MK-ULTRA. You know about the project that destroyed some peoples lives, right? Or, how about McCarthyism? To say it can't happen in this country, is being a little short sighted.

[JJLP1580]

27. There are degress of corruption...

I'm not defending torture. If you had read what I wrote you would have understood.

It's easy to see your "logic" at work here. There is no threat to our nation greater then the threat posed by our CIA and our Executive branch of government. There is nothing I can say that will change your mind. The only thing thats going to have you singing a different tune is when there is a Democrat in the White House...or when your captors have you bound, gagged, and ultimately, decapitated. The only thing is, it won't be the CIA doing the dirty work.

WAKE UP. The United States Govt. is NOT YOUR ENEMY.

[Webster Green]

38. Actually, you are defending torture..

You are caught up in some bizarre "24" scenario.

Water-boarding is torture! If you support it's use, then you support torture.

The vast majority of the people the U.S. is torturing are not terrorists.

You need to get up to speed here Skippy! You are woefully mis-informed.:smoke:

[saigon68]

41. ~

[pleah]

31. Picky, picky, picky!

:silly:

[struggle4progress]

33. I'd bet if we start pulling out your fingernails, we'd hear your plot against our ancient rights

[JJLP1580]

35. Huh?

Again, why does no one on here ever address salient points? You all just ignore stuff that you don't have a "comeback" to...

I know you don't want to believe that there are differing degrees of torture, but anyone thats knows ANYTHING about torture and warfare knows the difference.

I'm not saying that we should give our form of torture a pass...I completely back and uphold citizens in this country holding our government up to scrutiny...but I think that some of you have become so myopically obsessed with the CIA, George Bush, and "conservatism" in general that you're not able to see the forest for the trees.

We aren't the only *bad guys* out there in the world. Let me ask you...do you guys think that Pol Pot and George Bush are similar men? From what some of you have written, it seems that way. What about Osama bin Laden? Is he worse than Bush? I'm tellin ya, if you all really believe that the CIA and George Bush are the biggest threats to our country, then we're all in a lot of trouble.

[struggle4progress]

39. You just don't recognize a logical response when you get one

[fascisthunter]

40. You Do Know McCain Cracked Under Torture and Eventually Said...

what those who tortured him wanted him to say. Torture is use to break people so they will say whatever you want them to.

You are either dumb or a bad person yourself.

[appleannie1]

42. He only uses Christianity, he does not follow it.

[williesgirl]

16. Bush and his criminal cronies belong at The Hague. This is first step. rec'd

[LeFleur1]

22. When Did Americans Begin Believing....

...that we should become as immoral, as low as the lowest on the earth in order to protect ourselves?

To say that we are good but we do evil things because we must is just ridiculous. That is a lie that those who do evil things tell themselves in order to excuse themselves. If we allow our government to become as evil as the most evil...then we, too are the most evil.

[JJLP1580]

28. Immoral?

"To say that we are good but we do evil things because we must is just ridiculous."

An American citizen rapes another, is our whole society corrupt? An American business man embezzles money, is the entirety of our business ethics corrupt? An American soldier rapes a woman when he is abroad, is our whole military corrupt? An undocumented (illegal) alien commits a gang-related crime involving murder and extortion, is our whole national security system corrupted? A police officer, after struggling to arrest a violent criminal, strikes the offender multiple times in the head, is our whole police force corrupt?

Throughout history, we've seen GOOD MEN be FORCED into HELL by EVIL MEN. Do you know what a truely evil man looks like? Hint: George W. Bush isn't one of them.

WAKE UP. The Government of the United States of America is NOT OUR ENEMY. WE have the power the make CHANGES in our government. WE have the POWER to have our VOICES HEARD. WE have the POWER to hold our leaders accountable. But don't let all that power (that you probably haven't earned) go to your head. You need to be as diligent in assaulting our enemies as your are in assaulting our current "conservative" government.

[Oak2004]

32. One million-plus civilians dead

He holds the title for greatest mass murderer of the 21st century, and the death toll is still rising.

Hitler liked animals, and I'm sure Stalin had his positive traits too. Yet we know them as monsters because they killed millions. George Bush is not quite in their league, body count wise, but he's catching up on Pol Pot, another man we know of as a monster, though I imagine he too had his good points.

If 1.1 million or so dead isn't enough, exactly how many people do you have to kill, in your opinion, before you earn monster status?

[struggle4progress]

34. You seem to be under the delusion a person's character is evidence from appearance

[JJLP1580]

36. Good statement...

I was having a conversation with someone last week about what "character" was, and how you can find it. The reason we started talking about it was because of the words of Rev. Wright, and the resonating words of Dr. King, Jr....

"I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." - Dr. MLK, Jr., 1963

Like a picture's ability to conjure up a thousand words, Dr. King's simple wish speaks volumes about the design of America's social landscape in 1963. But what exactly did he mean by "character"? And how does one go about evaluating another's "character"?

This all got started because my friend and I were talking about Rev. Wright and if he was or was not a racist. Was he being taken out of context? Were his *contraversial* comments just being blown out of proportion, compared to his years of preaching on other, less *contraversial* subjects? Where was his "character" in all of this?

I find that the white boys involved in the infamous "Duke Lacross Rape Case" were judged on their "character" very quickly when the accusations came out that they had initiated and participated in the gang-rape of a young, black woman. Of course, we now know that the woman was a disgraced liar and that the men are completely innocent. Those FACTS, however, didn't stop most of the media from piling on the racial issues in Durham. It didn't stop them from trying to instigate a race-war between the "rich whites" and the "poor, disenfranchised blacks" of Durham. Wasn't the "content" of the media's "character" on display during that atrocious charade?

I believe that many were very quick to judge the "character" of Don Imus, after he had made a "racially insensitive" remark on-air about the Rutgers Women's Basketball team. Don Imus's words, "knappy-headed ho's", is definitely offensive. But I'd be lying if I said that I haven't heard those words on radio and T.V., spoken by black individuals. It became a huge race issue because a WHITE man said those things.

I would not be so foolish as to follow up events like these by making a quick, knee-jerk judgement on Rev. Wright's character. But what I am to think? What I am to believe? Could it be that Barack Obama's self-appointed Spiritual Advisor is a racist? I don't know...was it believable that those rich, white boys raped that poor, black girl? Was it believable that Don Imus was just another "typical white person" that had deep, seething racism living just below the surface?

I don't know exactly how one could judge another's true character. Actions speak louder than words, but words still matter. Sometime I feel as though words can have more meaning and more impact than actions could, it just depends on the situation. If you wanna believe that George Bush's character is that of a genocidal maniac, then so be it. But just because you believe something, doesn't make it so...

[RKOwens]

43. Sucks

When will I be able to private message? :(

[Hissyspit]

44. Don't know RK, but keep posting!

You'll get there.

It couldn't hurt to make a donation either. :)

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