Obama Slams Critics on Middle-Class Comments

[jefferson_dem]

Source: NYT

Obama Slams Critics on Middle-Class Comments
By Jeff Zeleny

TERRE HAUTE, Ind. – Senator Barack Obama forcefully criticized his rivals here Friday evening for suggesting he was out-of-touch with the American middle-class, after Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton and John McCain accused Mr. Obama of belittling voters by calling them “bitter.”

A fresh controversy over electability emerged from comments Mr. Obama had made at a private fundraiser in California on Sunday. Mr. Obama outlined challenges facing his presidential candidacy in the upcoming primaries of Pennsylvania and Indiana, particularly winning over white working-class voters who have fallen through the cracks of the last two presidential administrations.

“So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations,” Mr. Obama said, according to a transcript that appeared Friday on the Hufington Post Web site.

The remarks touched off a torrent of criticism from Mrs. Clinton, Mr. McCain and a string of Republican activists and party officials, all of whom accused Mr. Obama of elitism and belittling the working class. At a rally here Friday evening, Mr. Obama drawing a standing ovation in a crowded gymnasium as he rebutted those charges and painted both of his rivals as entrenched Washington insiders.

“No, I’m in touch. I know exactly what’s going on. I know what’s going on in Pennsylvania, I know what’s going on in Indiana, I know what’s going on in Illinois,” Mr. Obama said, his voice rising. “People are fed up, they’re angry, they’re frustrated, they’re bitter and they want to see a change in Washington. That’s why I’m running for president of the United States of America.”

Read more: http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/11/obama-slams-critics-on-middle-class-comments/

[stellanoir]

1. happily just gave you your 5th rec.

He is so much more aware of the issues we are all facing and is so able to tread the delicate balance of hope and change whilst counterbalancing how POed we are that our treasury has been looted over an ill fated endless conflict which will only enrich the very few.

Embittered. . . who wouldn't be. . . ? It's cost each and every one of us 20 grand. But we're supposed to take our 600 dollar bribe and think that's fair.

Right. . .?

[goclark]

95. They are still reading the 60's Politics Playbook

and Obama's Book is the 21st Century edition, with a new printing on a daily basis.
The Editor is Barack Obama!

Since Hillary and McCain are BFF, they are reading from the same volume.
The one with the dust on it that your grandfather kept in the attic.

Their version is not even on the internet.
It's still only available at the Main Branch,where they keep the old volumes for old people.

[nebula]

2. Their pathetic attempts to attack him

once again blowing back in their faces.

[EV_Ares]

15. You are so right; totally idiotic and desperate to try and attack him

for "what". What he said is totally and exactly how people do feel. Pathetic is so true of their desperation. News such as this backs up what he is saying.


US consumer mood at 26-year low
Shoppers in New York
US consumers appear fearful about the economy

US consumer sentiment is now at its lowest level in 26 years, a closely-watched survey has found.

With sentiment knocked by recession fears, the University of Michigan's index of confidence fell to 63.2 for April from 69.5 in March.

This month's figure is the lowest since March 1982, when the US economy was deep in an economic downturn.

It is just the latest study to show that US consumer confidence has fallen sharply in recent months.

The news hit the markets, with America's main Dow Jones index ending Friday down 2%, while the Nasdaq gave up 2.6%.

Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7343001.stm

[ksquire]

55. what's awesome though is that...

this gives him a *perfect* chance to be a "fighter" and talk straight in PA & IN. This is playing right into his hands... now he gets to be fired up and ready to bring real change on... Hillary and McCain being on the same side of this is bad news...err wait, EXCELLENT NEWS!! FOR HILLARY!!!

[nebula]

71. When Dumb and Dumber try to attack him

he exposes their nonsense for what it is, making them look even more
foolish and desperate then they already are.

[roguevalley]

77. go to americablog.com and see cafferty et al eviscerate Clinton/McCain

[Zachstar]

17. Thankfully tho it is both Clinton AND McCain this time so it does not hurt the democratic party.

Obama really put the matter to rest AND got a boost in while he was at it. McCain and the republicans must be shitting their pants thinking of this!

Obama is going to win in the GE! McCain does not stand a chance!


GOBAMA!!!

[Jackpine Radical]

41. Know them by the company they keep, I'd say:

"...Mrs. Clinton, Mr. McCain and a string of Republican activists and party officials, all of whom accused Mr. Obama of elitism and belittling the working class."

The Repuboican Clinton-McCain campaign attacks Obama.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

65. to Hill: You might be in the wrong political party IF:

You constantly line up with the republican candidate and the "vast right wing conspiracy"
to attack a fellow democrat.

Oliver Willis has it right here:

Q: Why is Hillary Clinton losing the Democratic nomination?
Published April 12, 2008

A: Because of headlines like this one: “Opponents Call Obama ‘Out of Touch’” When you and the conservative Republican nominee regularly line up on the same side rhetorically, it’s a sign that you may not be the one the Democratic party is looking for.

http://www.oliverwillis.com/index.php/2008/04/12/q-why-is-hillary-clinton-losing-the-democratic-nomination/#comments

[BearSquirrel2]

91. Isn't it interesting ...

Isn't it interesting how Hillary and McCain are tag teaming on him? McCain doesn't seem eager to criticize Hillary.

[Alii]

112. A very odd odd-couple.

Two vultures hovering about Barack Obama ready to pounce on any opportunity of a "misspeak." Rather odd considering that the queen of misspeaks is the leading vulture, the one on the top in this relationship.

[jerryster]

92. Not so sure about that

An an Obama supporter myself (and of whoever the Dem nominee is) I'm not so sure it's been laid to rest. Remember, Repubs are very good at throwing mud AND somehow making it stick. They will bring it up again.

I also have to admit that after reading Hillary's response (below) to Obama's comments that she got the best of this minor confrontation.

"I was raised with Midwestern values and an unshakable faith in America and its policies," she said. "Now, Americans who believe in the Second Amendment believe it's a matter of constitutional right. Americans who believe in God believe it's a matter of personal faith.

"I grew up in a church-going family, a family that believed in the importance of living out and expressing our faith. The people of faith I know don't 'cling' to religion because they're bitter. People embrace faith not because they are materially poor, but because they are spiritually rich.

"Our faith is the faith of our parents and our grandparents. It is a fundamental expression of who we are and what we believe."

[xioaping]

43. The results unfortunately are not pathetic. Mud Sticks

There is a core constituency of Democrats in places like Pennsylvania, Ohio that shoot deer on Saturday and go to church on Sunday to pray for good jobs that they have lost to free-trade. They will not like the words attributed to Obama.

Just saying they are "attacking him" states the obvious but it does not undo the results of their attack. It is not the choir that needs to be preached to. This is an election. The chanllenge is to undo the damage caused by the statement below.

"So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations..."

[madrchsod]

3. he speaks for me....

[ckramer]

4. They ARE bitter

"They" means Hillary, for lack of votes; McCain, for lack of funds...

[MichiganVote]

5. Yeah well as much as I like his comments he doesn't know jack about Michigan

[JanusAscending]

6. I think he knows,

you just haven't had the opportunity to see for yourselves that HE KNOWS!! After all, he didn't campaign in Michigan , because HE was following the rules laid down by the Dem. National Committee. He'll get there, don't worry. It may be as our Nominee for POTUS in the general election, but he'll get there. DC ( a GOBAMA MAMA !):hi: :thumbsup:

[johnnydrama]

7. that's kinda telling no

Who lashes out at Obama, Hillary Clinton and a bunch of Republicans.

[Triana]

8. He DOES know exactly what's going on...

..he's convinced me of that. While Obama has his finger on the pulse of America - Clinton and McSame have their fingers in their ears.

So now, he's exposed that - maybe that's why they're so offended. WE aren't - but THEY are. Huh. Very telling.

[momster]

53. Well Said!

"While Obama has his finger on the pulse of America - Clinton and McSame have their fingers in their ears."

[beevul]

9. I am leaning towards voting for Obama...

"“So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations,” Mr. Obama said, according to a transcript that appeared Friday on the Hufington Post Web site."


I understand what hes saying here. Unfortunately, many may take it the wrong way. Clinton and McPain aren't helping matters any either. Obama NEEDS to be percieved positively by rural folk, or this will not end well. For any of us.

[Triana]

11. I understand it too..

...it's not difficult to figure out what he's saying. But certain "opportunists" are twisting it around to use it against him to their own advantage.

Typical 'abuser' tactic - and those are often used in politics and government.

[FatDave]

29. It's just like Kerry's botched joke.

They know damn well what he was saying, but found a way to spin his words negative. It must be hard constantly trying to ensure that there's no way your words can be misused by your over-eager opposition.

[MercutioATC]

67. The difference is that Obama responded immediately...and not with rhetoric.

Kerry was contrite. Obama attacked. Great response.

[YvonneCa]

81. They DO know what he was saying, just like with the 'botched joke'...

... (which I heard live in that room the day Kerry was campaigning with Barbara Boxer in California)and it IS frustrating when that happens. It must be awful to keep having to defend common conversation. But that's the old 'fear and smear' politics that Obama is helping us leave behind. I'm glad he is calling them on it...and doing it in a way that the media HAS to cover. It's time for truth.

[dbmk]

42. Its evil

When you know he is right and try and spin it to use it against him, it stops being cynical and becomes evil.

Its what your current administration has been peddling for years now.

[saigon68]

160. Yes

[ekwhite]

10. They aren't bitter - they are PISSED

Obama had it right. People have been screwed in the rust belt since the Reagan administration - possibly since the Nixon administration. The Republican agenda has been an unmitigated disaster for states such as Pennsylvania. Clinton and McCain just don't GET IT.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

12. I'm sleepless & bitter. def: expressive of severe pain, grief, or regret

[Window]

28. Correct, the people are PISSED. McWar and Hillary are BITTER.

[Baby Snooks]

69. Not just the "rust belt"

It's the middle class throughout the country who have seen their standard of living go down as the cost of living has gone up.

And their bitterness is towards a Congress, both Democrats and Republicans, that has consistently "shot the bird" at them.

They have been left without hope. That is why so many have voted for Barack Obama. He represents a hope that the other candidates, both Democratic and Republican, have not offered.

If Hillary Clinton manages to steal the nomination through the superdelegates like Sheila Jackson Lee who will commit their vote to her despite their constituents having voted for Barack Obama it really won't matter who becomes president simply because the Democrats will have echoed the Republicans and stated once and for all that the people no longer matter.

[krkaufman]

13. Obama's merely explaining why people left the Dem Party after Clinton's NAFTA...

... if neither party is going to side with them economically, then people started voting for the party that talked about the "social" issues with which they were concerned.

[Hawaii Hiker]

14. Clinton & McCain are far wealthier than Obama, yet no one tags them as elitists

Give me a fucking break, like John & Cindy McCain are in touch with rural America???...Cindy looks like she shops routinely on Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills or Fifth Avenue in Manhattan....

Oh, & BTW, Obama is right, people are angry, as well they should be after these fucking Bush years...

[Jim Lane]

16. If Obama gets the votes of everyone who's bitter, he'll win in a landslide (n/t)

[Yes We Did]

18. K&R and a Half! Truth! Dead on! Hillary who? John who? GOBAMA!

[LiberalLovinLug]

19. Its McHillary against Obama

Seems like it's now a three way race only two of the candidates are ganging up on front runner.

[The Wizard]

20. In plain language,

without the feigned outrage spun from the minds and mouths of liars, losers and frauds, Barack Obama is giving working Americans a voice.
Insane McCain is still beholden to the Bush cartel, and the vast majority of the country has had it with the criminal junta that seized power through a corrupt Supreme Court.
Hillary Clinton tied her campaign wagon to the 20th Century model that relies on corporate cash for TV time. Terry McAullife and Mark Penn were effective for their time, but the Internet escapes their grasp. James Carville ran one successful campaign, Bill Clinton's in 92, and without Bill Clinton, Carville is in Bob Schrum territory.
McCain can be excused as he is borderline dementia or Alzheimer's. Hillary Clinton's campaign was poorly run and fell far enough behind that it has to resort to the old Republican standby, feigned outrage. Jumping up and down and stamping feet in a childish tantrum only goes so far, ask any parent.
Obama seems to handle the trumped up outrage and media bullshit with natural leadership skills. He too may be just be another politician, but the perception is otherwise.

[NeoConsSuck]

21. Obama speaks for me

I am frustrated and bitter over this country's direction.

[michaz]

22. Obama is soooo right.

I am a 58 year old woman that is extremely "bitter" over what this country has become. I am "fed up", "angry" and "frustrated" and that makes one bitter! How could a person be all of these things and not be "bitter"? Anyone that lives in this country knows full well that we need change! He has "hit the nail on the head" once again. McCain and Clinton are simply jealous that they didn't say this first.

[Vinca]

23. The truth is sometimes painful. nt

[Eagle_Eye]

24. Obama hands Hillary Pennsylvania by insulting the rural voters.

That is the way to get elected. He labels the voters he need to vote for him as pissed off, gun hugging, religious zealots who are incapable of finding a job.

We don't need a President that insults his constituents.

I welcome Hillary's coming victory in Pennsylvania.

[FOS]

25. Really ?

I don't think so. Barack Obama told the truth. Did you watch CSpan this morning? Not only were a majority of the callers defending Barack Obama on this , most of them were .....get this.....PENNSLYVANIA VOTERS!

:rofl:

[Eagle_Eye]

121. Where in Pennsylvania? Pittsburgh? Philadelphia?

It is the rural voters who were insulted.

[TheCowsCameHome]

32. But he is a gentleman. He'll invite her to his inuguration.

[Eagle_Eye]

122. Hillary stands the best chance of beating McCain

Obama is not our best choice.

[Zhade]

129. Completely baseless speculation, and a moot point, since she will not win the nom.

NT!

[Eagle_Eye]

140. Obama has not won the nomination, nor has McCain for that point

[Binka]

33. He Did Not Insult Them He ACKNOWLEDGED Them

Big difference. They probably got it, you on the other hand did not. Too bad for you.

[bettyellen]

89. acknowledged how they cling to racist xenophobia? how they tote guns to church? LOL!

skinner ir right y'all . the man fucked up.
keep putting lipstick on that pig. whatever.

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stanwyck]

157. Hey, I'm from a small town. Guess what?

There are people there who are racists, tote guns to church, hate immigrants, and are very, very bitter. Why deny that this bitterness exists? You're missing his message by doing the talk-radio trick of concentrating on phrases instead of the meaning. Obama told the truth. Maybe you can't handle the truth (said with my best Jack Nicholson impersonation)

[bettyellen]

104. like calling someone a FATASS is acklowledging them?

too bad for you that you need to post such mean spirited drivel.
:hi:

[pinkpops]

108. I would call them fatass gun loving religious zealots if thats what they

are. But those are McCain's supporters, not Hillary's or Barack's.
Democrats believe in religious freedom, reasonable limits on gun ownership, and moderate eating.

[barb162]

115. Yeah, that just makes people want to vote for him, doesn't it?

Hahaha.

[stanwyck]

158. I guess you want us to pretend

that the obese are actually perfectly healthy? How is denying a problem helping? People in small towns are exactly as portrayed by Obama. They're bitter as their communities and livelihoods wither away. What Obama is attempting to do, amid this inane manufactured outrage, is bring their fears and dissatsifaction out for discussion.
You can't help people if you ignore their problems. (I hope you aren't in the health profession...your patients would really be in trouble).

[Eagle_Eye]

123. Are you getting dizzy spinning this for Obama?

[Binka]

135. No Thanks For Asking

[greiner3]

46. Looks like one of those angry, bitter;

Saturday afternoon hunters just shot down your eagle! :rofl:

[Eagle_Eye]

124. Looks like Obama shot himself in the foot

[wordpix]

153. no way- a little misspeak, and I don't think it was, never knocked out a candidate

How about GW Bush's? Or McCain's 100 yrs. war statement?

[democrat_always]

54. Some people are blind

Can the H.C. people blind to what and who she is. She is so ingrained into Washington and how it happens to be working right now that she's allot like the Repulsives. She just has too many plain and simple lies that she tells. Too many corporations backing her. We need to change the way Washington works and she would only be one little notch above the old guy. Besides Bills says she is too tired at 11 at night to think straight, how the hell will she be able to answer the phone at 3 AM?????? If she answered she might go to hang up and hit the RED Button in stead of hanging up. At one time I really liked Bill, but that is pretty much over as I've learned more about him and how he works. For me at least there is some hope with Obama, not much hope with her.

[Eagle_Eye]

125. It was Obama that committed the Gaff and you defect and change the subject by attacking Hillary

Obama is in trouble over this one

[Zhade]

130. He's not in trouble over Wright, and that was a worse manufactured scandal.

You should see an eye doctor, your nickname is misapplied.

[Eagle_Eye]

142. Another deflection, you can't face the fact Obama rolled off axel deep to a Ferris Wheel.

Obama touched a raw nerve not once, but twice.

Obama touched guns. Guns and gun control have been the kiss of death for some liberal politics. The honorable Senator John Kerry was issued a ration for appearing in public with a shotgun which did little to help his campaign.

Obama touched religion (again.) He slithers to safety over the Reverend Wright issue while the people with long knives are standing in the shadows, and then he shows his inexperience by bringing the issue up again.

The hard core liberal Democrats seem to love Obama, but that love will not play for the full range of American voters in the general election. We need a Democrat with experience handling not just people like us, but we need a candidate that can handle the republicans as well.

We need Hillary Clinton.

[amandabeech]

149. Rev. Wright will be back for the general.

The pubbies will make some nasty, nasty commercials out of it.

I saw a first draft that spliced together Rev. Wright damning America, a plane going into the WTC, Barack with his hands in front of him while the National Anthem was playing, then another shot of plane into the WTC, then Michele on finding pride in America, then that field in PA, then back to Rev. Wright, then the Pentagon with a big hole, then another Rev. Wright and back to a plane inside the WTC. At least that's a rough approximation, and it's on youtube.

I think that undecideds in the middle might be affected by it-and its clones.

[BearSquirrel2]

93. Americans tired of Washington as usual ...

OK, so when somebody comes out and calls a constituency "tired" is that insulting them. How about "angry" or "shocked". The guy is talking about peoples state of belief about their country. If you did all the right things and your job was shipped away, wouldn't you be "bitter".

The Hillary evangelicals are divorced from reality or being paid to spin. You folks are NUTS!!!!

[Eagle_Eye]

126. We are also tired of arrogant rich lawyers talking down to us

[NoodleyAppendage]

113. I welcome you eating your words. n/t

J

[Eagle_Eye]

120. The primary is right around the corner

We will see.

[Zhade]

131. So is clinton's ride home.

She's done. Get ready to deal with it.

[Eagle_Eye]

141. Home again to the White House

I look forward to her inauguration speech. It will be the first one by a woman by the way.

[Zhade]

128. Only idiots who have no reading comprehension or analytical skills would draw that conclusion.

I don't think the people of PA are so stupid, why do you?

[Eagle_Eye]

143. Only idiots think they can win elections on semantics and not perceptions

Obama communicated an insult to rural voters, not just in Pennsylvania, but in across the country as well. Going back and performing an analysis of the words according to the Harbrace College Handbook will do nothing to erase the perception of the insult to millions of potential voters.

Obama is finding out that it is hard to get a second chance at a first impression. His statements are perceived to show the problems in rural America can be attributed to guns and religion. What ever the intent of his statement was, it did not come out like he intended.

Obama is a powerful speaker. That power coupled with lack of experience has now turned around and bit him. Obama spoke powerfully, but communicated the wrong message.

[fasttense]

26. Is he pushing the "free market" religion?

The only thing that bothers me about his comment (Of course our ignorant corporate media and other candidates don't say anything about it.) is the anti-trade comment.

"They get bitter, they cling to... anti-trade sentiment..." ?????

The word "anti-trade" is code used by republicans against people who don't worship at the alter of Milton Friedman, the Chicago boys, and trickle down economic theory. Republicans use "anti-trade" to smear people who don't buy into their religion of greed is good. It makes me wonder if Obama buys into that free market crap because he is using the right wing characterization of people who don't agree with crony capitalism. Is anyone really against trade? I mean without trade do we even have an economy? So you see how the republicans have turned their economic opponents into anti-trade advocates. When Obama uses it, I think he buys into this free market crap.

[lark]

78. Thank you for getting it

All these Obama supporters spin him as for the average person, not a corporatist, but I really don't think that's who he is. They are painting him with their wishful thinking colors, not seeing what's behind the usually pretty words. While slamming the down-trodden for turning to religion adn guns, he's also slamming them for being anti-trade, same sentence same thought. I thought his follow-up was absolutely spot on, but this original stinks of hypocrisy. Who is he, what will he do? I still don't know because he says one thing and votes differently. He's supposedly anti-NAFTA, yet seems pro free-trade in his first speech. I really don't trust him anymore than HRC, although his campaign staff is certainly better, more organized. At least she and her husband did something for America, they brought us prosperity, fiscal sanity, FMLA, protection of open spaces - what has he done for my family or yours - sadly, nothing that I can see.

[truedelphi]

83. That is truly a big concern.

I hadn't thought about that. "Anti-tradwe" is indeed a euphenism for this Corporate Crap theory of trickle down nonsense.

Now that all the manufacturing is overseas, it has indeed trickled down - 1700 people show up for 140 positions at a local Wal Mart.

[alarimer]

117. That's my problem with what he said.

Not the rest so much. We HAVE to get rid (or reform) these free trade agreements. They are bad for workers here AND bad for worker in the other countries. NAFTA about killed Mexican corn farmers.

[amandabeech]

150. In a word, yes.

His chief economic adviser, Goolsbee, is an academic from the University of Chicago.

You know, one of those Chicago boys.

He's the one who was rumored to have told some Canadian diplomats to ignore what Obama says about NAFTA, or words to that effect.

I expect him to do zero about reforming NAFTA, MFN for China, or any of these other heinous things. In fact, he'll be pushing free trade agreements with every nation on earth that offers rock-bottom wages and NO regulation of any kind.

Just like Clinton.

Just like McCain.

Start saving now, 'cause every job that can go will go over the next 4 years no matter which of these clowns gets in.

Then they'll insource the rest.

[Window]

27. Ha ha. Will they never learn. Every time they try their weak attacks, Sen. Obama spanks them good,

and gives them a swift :kick: in the ass.

:kick:

[me b zola]

58. And leaves Clinton, the repubs, and the media

scratching their heads trying to figure out why their smears don't work. They're all still pissed off that the attack on Obama's church only strengthened him.

[Window]

64. Exactly.

Nothing they throw at him sticks.

:rofl:

[TheCowsCameHome]

30. Bitter? Bitter? That's not strong enough to describe my feelings.

After seven years of this corrupt, arrogant, inept administration I would say "bitter" is too mild.

[Don Davis]

31. This Cinches it -- Barack Now Has to Go with John Mellencamp As Running Mate

http://satiricalpolitical.com/?p=1720

[JChan]

34. Sort of

Obama was 1/2 correct but once again in life HOW you say something is just as important as what you say.

As for being bitter ... ya there are lots of people who've been outta work for a long time and see
manuf. jobs going overseas that are bitter.

AS FOR the rest of his comment.

He should have dropped the ...
"clutching guns and religion" garbage.

What does that even mean ... yea Im having a hard time so I go grab my gun and make myself feel better? Guess it shows what Obama once again thinks of gun ownership - "were all just a bunch of crazy violent people"

And as for religion, there's nothing wrong with that at all ... many people turn to their faith during difficult times not as a source for help but comfort and peace.

[Roy]

85. It means that ony if you want to misconstue his words..

Why couldn't it mean that people are so cynical of politicians (include MSM also) because they don't address the issues that matter to them.
For that reason they must vote for these candidates based on these divisive issues.

[Zhade]

132. Yeah, and lots of people use religion to hate, lie and murder.

It, in and of itself, is NOT a good thing.

[joeybee12]

35. Obama needs a crash course in framing an issue...so does Michelle...

...while I agree with the sentiment, he needs to choose his words better. That's how Reagan got in...times were tough, but he was always optimistic that things would get better..Michelle and Bo have a tendency to state the obvious in negative terms...make it a positive as my English teacher always said. He opens himself up to attacks this way, and no amount of squawking by the Bots here changes that.

[raystorm7]

39. Wait a sec...I thought Obama was all about Hope and Change or were you not listening?!

[joeybee12]

47. Sorry, guess I wasn't...I should always remember what he MEANT to say...

...instead of what he actually said.

[NOLALady]

63. His framing does not seem to hurt him.

He comes back stronger after each RW/HRC attack.

[hollowdweller]

36. If he had been talking about inner city blacks blaming racisim for their lot nobody would have cared

On tons of boards I hear people saying that that blacks vote for democrats based on race issues and blame racisim for their lot in life and everybody gives the thumbs up.

But say the same about white people and there's a huge outcry. Go figure.

[54anickel]

37. They're just pissed cuz he's shining a light on the very human trait that politicians

love to exploit. Can't "toss a bone" to the American public to fight over if they know you're only tossing a bone....

...they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations...

[Paladin]

38. Gee, A Politician Being Pilloried For Telling The Truth.

How utterly predictable.

Any doubts I might have had about supporting Obama have been erased by his statement.....

[theaocp]

40. obama is walking a mile in the people's shoes

Straight up. Clinton is floundering and Huggy Bear is just a dumbass. The fact that they're in cahoots, saying the same thing about Obama speaks volumes. Either way, i can't see how Obama's empathetic approach can be anything short of positive. As others have noted, he didn't do the dem thing and shy away, but came out ready and packin' some intellectual heat.

Now, i'm not stupid and know Obama probably doesn't know what it's like to not be independently wealthy RIGHT NOW, but i like what he's saying and how he's saying it. The responses from the other two camps are just laughable and pathetic. I trust Obama more than i trust either of the others, by a country mile. Cheers.

[NewHampster]

44. Words, Just Words

[greiner3]

48. So this means you want Sen. Clinton;

To shut her mouth also?

[ginnyinWI]

45. looks like we have a winner here--

a strong Dem who doesn't mince words, and doesn't run away when confronted!

It's truly laughable that anyone would think that with his middle-to-lower middle class upbringing and his work as an organizer on the South side of Chicago he doesn't know what the working class goes through! It was bad for them in the Reagan years when he worked there, and it's bad now. Probably worse. Trying to paint him as elitist and looking down on the people is embarrassingly ridiculous.

Someone in a thread last night stated that when it's a REAL mistake, the opposing candidates stay silent and let the media have at 'em. But when they go in front of the cameras denouncing the action or words, it's a made-up attack about something which would not have otherwise attracted much attention. And here we have exhibit A, people.

[MarkInLA]

49. He's absolutely right

Because it challenges their thoughts, a lot of folks probably wouldn't want to admit that they cling to social issues out of frustration in other areas of their lives.

It's classic behavior, really. Having a tough time economically? Blame the immigrants, blame the blacks, blame the gays, blame the Jews, etc. One of the most egregious examples of this was in Nazi Germany where the government openly encouraged hatred and the destruction of those who were different.

[rucognizant]

66. Here in Maine......everybody knows one

It's those evil welfare Mothers! They just keep spitting out babies and letting the Govt. support them so they don't have to work!
Lazy sluts, everybody knows that kids don't need any attention!
I'm thinking of becoming one of those Mothers over 65.....maybe I can train the kids to do the cooking & cleaning for me!
( I believe we do have a high incident of domestic abuse, ( the Fathers) in the state.:sarcasm:

[MarkInLA]

109. Sadly, I think you're right

An acquaintance of mine from Maine gave me the impression that, outside of the cities, it gets a little scary - a lot of poor, uneducated, and closed-minded people.

[greyghost]

50. The truth, it's such a rare commodity, never heard in elections.

Obama does indeed get it, and so does the country.

[blue sky at night]

51. Bitter.....

bitter doesn't even begin to decribe how we feel. What a weak bunch of pussies Obama's critics are.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

52. IMO what he just did here was damn close to perfect.

Spin it back in their faces and put them on the defense. This is exactly what we need from our candidates right now. Proof that they hold the skills to fight these "word manipulation" type of attacks. Nip this type of spin in the bud BEFORE it gets a chance to bloom and pollinate.

This line will resonate with millions of voters, "People are fed up, they're angry, they're frustrated, they're bitter and they want to see a change in Washington. That's why I’m running for president of the United States of America."

[Laurab]

56. Which party does HRC belong to again?

"After making her remarks before a crowd of voters, aides to Mrs. Clinton issued several statements criticizing Mr. Obama, including ones that contained criticism from Republicans."

It's really getting hard to tell.

I'm seeing more and more how much Obama learned from Kerry's neglect of the swiftboating. Hillary fights dirty, and fights against her own party - shades of GWB, circa 1999. Obama fights back intelligently, and mentions the opposition party. As has been the case throughout this primary, I see who the real "fighter" is, and it's not Hillary Clinton. I'm guessing this too will backfire on her.

[Lugnut]

57. He's right.

:kick:

[BR_Parkway]

59. "a torrent of criticism from Mrs. Clinton, Mr. McCain and a string of Republican activists and party

Doesn't that say so much?

[ToughLuck]

60. Hillary and McCain are sooo DESPERATE

Powell likes him, and put the Pastor Wright comments in perspective...ha ha keep trying McCain and Hillary.

[Tellurian]

106. The Republican Lovefest, Powell and Condi supporting Obama..

That brought US Iraq101..

:rofl: Lovely!

[Alii]

114. That's really brilliant...

how 'bout adding Hillary to that list?

[Zhade]

133. More lies from the supporter of clinton the liar?

Pfft. DisMISSED.

[Hulk]

61. Truth hurts....eh, America?

[Vinca]

62. Obama might mention that of all the candidates in the race, he's

the only one who has needed food stamps in his lifetime. He's also the only one without wealth in the $100 million range.

[happygoluckytoyou]

68. BITTER ISN'T HALF OF HOW I FEEL----> GO'BAMA!!!!!

FUCKED ECONOMY...
SHITHEAD'S WAR...
ASSWIPE ADMINISTRATION...

job market sucks

stock market sucks

monica sucks... (sorry... got on a roll there)

AND DON'T LET ANYONE KID YOU....

JOHN "THE REPUBLICAN" MCCAIN AND HILLARY "REPUBLICAN LITE" CLINTON ARE OUT OF TOUCH...
WHY ELSE WOULD THEY DEFEND THE WAR...EVER!!! DID SOMEONE SAY THE CLINTONS EARNED $110 MILLION
LAST YEAR.... GUESS THAT $4 GAS IS HITTING THEM PRETTY HARD

JOHN "THE REPUBLICAN" MCCAIN AND HILLARY "REPUBLICAN LITE" CLINTON ARE OUT OF TOUCH...
WHY ELSE WOULD THEY DEFEND THE WAR...EVER!!! DID SOMEONE SAY THE CLINTONS EARNED $110 MILLION
LAST YEAR.... GUESS THAT $4 GAS IS HITTING THEM PRETTY HARD

[SlavesandBulldozers]

70. oh since he said it he's the elitist! oh that's classic!

they couldnt be more right, however, that this an electability thing. he nailed it. the others feign outrage over what they know to be the truth. shit, the republicans (Hillary included of course) have exploited this very fact for 30 years - they're just pissed that their strategy is being surgically analyzed and extracted like a cancer.

[humbled_opinion]

72. Uhm I just don't know how this plays to the middle.

The Right calls this hard left positioning, the right says we need to question where Obama wants to take the nation.... The center is weary and ripe for change but I don't know if they are ready for a hard left....

We shall see.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

79. a hard left? the truth is a hard left? i had no idea. n/t

[JChan]

73. Well I guess Im in my own minority

the guy needs to pick his words more wisely

"they cling to guns or religion "

So I guess I can now confirm that Obama is strongly anti-gun beucase he seems to think gun owners now

clutch and sleep with their weapons.

And I guess having faith and turning to Church during hard times is also something that only the poor do.

You guys can say what you want the interp. of the WAY he made is statement is very negative toward those

issues and spirituality.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

80. does it offend you that he said it? or do you think its not true? n/t

[JChan]

82. somewhat

I think the general idea that people are hurting part. the middle and lower incomes.

What I take issue with is his statement .... it appears from his statement that he thinks we turn to

guns (for whatever reason) and religion.

I dont think that portion of his statement is correct or respectfull of people in general.

It struck me as if he thinks that EITHER of those things is inherently wrong OR that only the poor

are gun owners or turn to their faith during difficult times.

Again ... I dont disagree with his stance that there are certain economies in the US that have been hit hard over and over and have not rec. one ounce of attention from prev. leaderships.

I take issue with the WAY he phrased his statement first ... I hope I am wrong about the underlying meaning to the words "they cling to guns or religion ".

[SlavesandBulldozers]

147. but people do turn to guns and religion. its completely true.

I'm really glad to finally have somebody calling it as he sees it, rather than measuring every thing according to how it will be perceived.

[debbierlus]

74. People are BITTER - it is what happens when you can't keep your head above water

Obama is right. People are struggling, and it causes major resentment. Immigration wouldn't be such an explosive issue, if it
weren't for the fact that many American people don't have good paying jobs. It is natural to feel bitter and angry, if you perceive
another group is taking something from you (even if the reality is that it is the corporate employers who are creating the situation).

There is also a class war ready to erupt, you can't have this type of income disparity and have the lower classes forever tolerate a serf based system.

Good for Obama.

[fshrink]

75. It's almost like

each time he says something true and spontaneous, one of the others jumps on him for doing so.
Obviously, "electability" seems to mean ability to lie and fake. And this is the first time that it is almost openly acknowledged! Perhaps it is... But even if that's the case, again, I'd rather have a genuine candidate who loses than a hypocrite who wins. Because without principles we're just as good as the next nazi.

[customerserviceguy]

96. "Electability" also means

not talking down to people who have already voted for you, and supported you. The "cling to" comment about guns and religion was asking for Hillary and McCain to come up and show that Sen. Obama doesn't 'get' rural America. Out there, they had guns and religion way before the factory that closed down was even built.

This was a very clumsy statement, and I'm glad Sen. Obama realizes it. I have hopes that he is the one to reconcile people in this country, but he's not going to accomplish that if he says things that they (rightfully) interpret to mean they are gun nuts and religious lunatics. He's going to need to take some time to listen to at least a few of the people out in the West and Midwest who overwhelmingly supported him over Sen. Clinton in the primaries and caucuses. His support was not just in the larger cities, in my former home state of Washington, he carried EVERY county, not just the ones up and down Interstate 5.

Please folks, if you really regard all small-town and rural dwellers as snake-handling gun fetishes, then how do you ever expect to find common ground with them in fixing this country? Or do you just think that you're going to use an election victory to run roughshod over their concerns? If so, then why do you expect them to vote Democratic in this election, or in the future?

[fshrink]

145. Honesty often hurts.

But the "hurt" here is very limited, I would say. Although, like he said, he could have phrased it better. Another honest statement, by the way.
As demonstrated by the fact that you had to use harsher words (lunatics,etc...) to make your point more cogent.
I expect the left-out to realize they are such and go where they will get a little more ease in their life. Not where they are stroked with all their key-words (e.g. guns, church etc...) and basically, in the process, much more despised.
Maybe HRC and BO would bring the same amount of extra-ease to this country, but I still vote for honesty. A question of principle.

[customerserviceguy]

152. Well, how's this for honesty, then:

What Sen. Obama was telling the Democratic attendees at the San Francisco fund-raiser was in effect: "If we get the small town factories reopened, people out there will stop opposing gun control, they'll stop giving money to fundie preachers, they'll kumbayah with people of color, and they'll stop being so resentful of the folks who babysit your kids and mow your grass."

We all know that's not gonna happen, so why rub rural America's nose in the idea that your big city supporters see them as bible-thumping, gun-toting, racist, xenophobic hicks who can be cured simply with a paycheck?

Playing the city folks off against the country folks is not the way that we bring America together. Sen. Obama needs to tell the city folks that they need to support efforts to rebuild the American heartland as a matter of justice, not just a matter of what you have to do to fool the rubes into getting your larger agenda passed.

[knixphan]

138. 'I'd rather have a genuine candidate...'

Yep, you had me at 'genuine'.

And you are right,

There is only one genuine candidate in this race.

And a leader will have to tell you things you DON'T want to hear sometimes.

That's real leadership.

GO BARACK.

[Igel]

76. He's not really very consistent, is he?

I mean, I can see that he'd interpret--even if the people that he describes as "bitter" wouldn't--their bad attitudes as resulting from a lack of economic progress. Some people view everything through an economic prism.

But the list of bad things is long. "Angry" and "frustrated" are apparently what needs to be fixed, and he's the solution. His "change" would obviate the need for their bad, misguided expression of bitterness. He knows them better than they know themselves, and he has the solution to their problems.

What are their problems?

For one thing, "antipathy to people who aren't like them"--xenophobia, one would think. "Anti-immigrant sentiment", another more specific type of xenophobia and racism.

Or "religion". Only frustrated, bitter folk dwell on religion. Perhaps that includes Wright and idjits who go to church. Hmmm ...

Or "guns". After all, he was anti-gun before he realized it was expedient to be pro-gun, or at least neutral on the topic.

And let's not forget that ultimate bad expression of bitterness, "anti-trade sentiment." Gotta lose that expression of bitterness.

Let's hope he is the change he needs, so he can lose those expressions of bitterness.

[GMFORD]

84. The bitterness comes from

30 years of economic starvation when the factories closed down and the jobs went overseas (or across the southern border). Every election some polition comes along and promises to make things better but nothing ever gets better. So these people have given up on the idea that government will ever help. They don't vote economic issues any more because they figure there's not point. Now they vote solely on social issues.

People become bitter when they get empty promises over and over. He's saying he understands why they are frustrated, angry and even bitter and his campaign is all about how ordinary people can gain control of their government, make it work for them. No, not telling them, showing them how to do it. His state by state campaign teaches people how to become activists.

Something wrong with that?

[JChan]

86. ya and also

and he also implied that those of us who grew up in small town America drive old beatup pickups with gunracks.

Yea ... were all a bunch of gun toting bible thumpers .. yeha!!!!


I dont disagree with his "economic" sentiment ... his cultural "analysis" (if you can even call it that) is way off.

[grannylib]

87. They're making mountains out of molehills. What a pathetic attempt to smear

Obama - holy shit. I knew right away they'd pounce on it, and that it would be totally mischaracterized and used against him. I'm glad he's not backing down.

[JChan]

88. not really

Updated at 3:59 PM

Source: AP via Yahoo News

Obama concedes remarks were ill chosen

By JIM KUHNHENN and CHARLES BABINGTON, Associated Press WriterS
22 minutes ago

MUNCIE, Ind - After a full throated response to criticism that he is condescending, Democrat Barack Obama on Saturday conceded that that comments he made about bitter working class voters who "cling to guns or religion" were ill chosen.

"I didn't say it as well as I should have," he said.

As Obama tried to quell the furor, presidential rival Hillary Rodham Clinton hit him with one of her lengthiest and most pointed criticisms to date.

"Senator Obama's remarks were elitist and out of touch," she said, campaigning about an hour away in Indianapolis. "They are not reflective of the values and beliefs of Americans."

At issue are comments Obama made privately at a fundraising gathering in San Francisco last Sunday. He explained his troubles winning over working class voters, saying they have become frustrated with economic conditions:

"It's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

[Politicalboi]

94. What Obama said is true

And maybe this is what he wants to happen. It's not a disaster in his campaign and it shows who side Hillary is really on. It's small potato's for Obama. This is something to take the headlines and Obama controls it. And Hillary once again shows her true colors. It's more helpful for Hillary to shove her own foot in mouth. Obama has a whole week to fix this and he will.

[customerserviceguy]

101. I think he can fix it

but it will take more than a speech. He needs to sit down with people who might chuckle about his bowling score, but really take offense when you talk about what they "cling" to, and why you opine that they do so. He needs to show that he "gets it" when he emerges from such meetings, or he will be perceived as just another city slicker who looks down on their country cousins.

Like I said, I think he can, but he has a lot of work to do, and he's going to have to endure a lot of ribbing from late-night comedians and political cartoons. This is really the first great gaffe he's tossed their way, it won't be just Sen. Clinton and her campaign beating the drum on this.

[CADEMOCRAT7]

97. Brilliant

I thought he was brilliant in how he responded and his delivery. The way he said "he thinks "I'M" out of touch...I'm "IN" touch". I thought hmm is it time for another "knock the ball out of the park speech". Obama continues to just astonish me with saying things that I would say to myself, and things that in a million years would I ever dream I would hear from a candidate so close to the White HOuse. This an Historic time for us indeed !

[Zavulon]

98. His comments were a stupid poltical gaffe in a state he wants to win. He needs to quit whining and

take it like an adult. He's lucky he hasn't taken more crap for his "typical white person" remark.

The fact is that Obama, whom I've been supporting strongly, did come off as elitist and out of touch, and if I were a small-town Pennsylvanian I'd be seriously pissed at him, especially being pro-gun as I am.

[MarkInLA]

110. If you really feel that way, then I don't think you understood what he was saying (n/t)

[Zavulon]

134. I think I did, but please feel free to enlighten me. (NT)

[darue]

136. general comments about "Americans" do NOT apply to specific individuals so no 'offense' is possible

People in speeches all the time make general statements about 'what people <fill in the blank>' as a listener I would never pretend to take that as a comment from the speaker to me directly and particularly. Doing so is like spoiling for a fight.

[Zavulon]

139. As a gun owner and gun enthusiast, I disagree.

I'm not spoiling for a fight at all and have been very vocal in my support of Obama / my contempt of Hillary. That said, his comments struck me as if he was saying gun owners are retarded shitbags and I have a lot of contempt for what he said. I scoff at your "no 'offense' is possible" and vehemently disagree.

As a a white guy, I'm still waiting to learn what Obama's definition of a "typical white person" is, too (I assume you heard / remember that one). Are you going to tell me that "no 'offense' is possible" there as well? Just imagine the screams of outrage if any white candidate put forth his or her opinion regarding a "typical black person."

[Zambero]

100. So Obama has gone and upset Hill & John's rickety apple carts?

Well good for him! Since when is it "elitist" to address the issues and, yes, attitudes of middle class citizens?

[TheCowsCameHome]

102. Bitter is too kind a word

to describe my feeling toward Bush and what he has done to America in seven short years.

Obama is dead-on target.

[krispos42]

103. Except for the gun part, I don't see what's wrong with what he said

In bad times people cling to religion and get angry at people threatening their jobs, whether it's the illegal Mexican working for under-the-table cash or the corporate fatcat moving jobs overseas.

[amandabeech]

154. The religious situation in small towns is just like guns.

Many people go to church regularly and have all their lives through thick and thin. They don't stop going when the economy of their town improves. Therefore, to say that they cling to religion only in bad times does not describe their faith, which is ALWAYS with them and always will be. And it is insulting to them to say that the only reason that they believe is their bitterness with the economy.

Speaking as a small town midwesterner with a religious mother.

[sueragingroz]

105. uhm... WHAT HAPPENED TO HOPE!?????

Do I get a pony now?

[ryanmuegge]

107. He spoke the truth. Real people are angry as hell with good reason.

I don't know who Hillary's been hanging out with, judging by her response, but the real people I know are fucking pissed and know that they're being fucked.

Although Obama's talk is just rhetoric and everybody knows it, the elite doesn't even like that kind of rhetoric necessary for him to play his role as a member of the opposition party (a representative of the average person and working class). That kind of rhetoric, and that is all it is, is too close to the truth for the powerful few who modulate the two-party system in this country.

[iamthebandfanman]

111. still dont understand the media spin

i really dont get what the big deal was.

its so weird to watch the media go to work on someone...

[stanwyck]

159. Pure manufactured outrage

over straight talk.

[alarimer]

116. But anti-free trade is actually the right position

I am opposed to NAFTA and all those things. Those were the worst things for American workers. And signed by Clinton, I might add. If Obama is in favor of free trade, he is completely wrong. FAIR trade, not free trade. Other than that, I wouldn't quibble with his remarks.

[Justyce]

119. Obama is pro-free-trade.

Senator Obama: "I believe in the Free Market. I believe in Capitalism. I believe in Free Trade. I am not worried about us being able to compete anywhere on earth with American workers".

[alarimer]

127. Well free trade has done a lot of damage to this country.

I am not voting for him because of this. Not even if he is the nominee. I plan on abstaining. Fuck Obama the corporate tool.

[harun]

156. I would put him in more of the fair trade camp over-all though (n/t)

[WoodyM]

118. Obama says he is going to unite us.

How is he going to unite us if he cannot realize when he is actually insulting people? It is not the “bitter” that is the trouble; it is the way he said people reacted to it. Evidently, he judges these people to be what he has termed “typical white person.”

[Skittles]

137. my take as someone who is not a fan of Obama or Hillary

I think what Obama said is absolutely true but you just don't say that stuff about guns and religion because it alienates the stupid which is a great portion of America. Hillary is capitalizing on it as a politican which ANY POLITICAL OPPONENT WOULD DO. Obama is correct to try to repair the damage he may have inadvertently caused by offending the stupid. Hillary needs to put more emphasis on exactly why she believes she would be better for the idiot block.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

148. i dont think this alienates anybody.

anybody who would be alienated by this wasn't bound to vote for Obama.

[wordpix]

144. count me as one who thought his remarks were RIGHT ON. Some can't take the truth, I guess

[Jennicut]

146. The media thinks the "people" don't undestand nuance, its Obama "hates blue collar whites"

No complex thinking aloud! We are too dumb to understand what he was talking about. Yes, people are falling through the cracks and have been for years under George Bush and his cronies. People are frustrated and so they look to blame illegals or trade settlements and look at religion to lead them to blame others. Actually, its been happening throughout the United State's history. Early immigration at Ellis Island is an example. One nationality blamed another for moving in and "stealing" their jobs. The fact that Obama gets this and Hillary uses it as a soundbite tells me everything I need to know. I am becoming more and more convinced that Hillary does not care about anything but winning.

[goodgd_yall]

151. Here's one unhappy HRC supporter

I'm very disappointed with Hillary's response to Obama's remarks. I'm just about ready to jump ship. Hearing someone attacked as being elitist because they make an intelligent observation sends me into a flashback of Spiro Agnew.

[harun]

155. Obama is right on this (n/t)

[GetTheRightVote]

161. Is this man a mind reader or what, he is in our shoes and walking with them

as well. I am very impressed with this man, very impressed.

[tidy_bowl]

162. I see we have reached the....

...church of 'Obama Can Do No Wrong' So many here in such rapture. Praise the Messiah brother! Can I get an Amen?

[Name removed]

163. Deleted message

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