It's Obama, stupid: Carter and Gore to end Clinton bid

[Ichingcarpenter]

Source: The Scotsman

By Chris Stephen
in New York

DEMOCRAT grandees Jimmy Carter and Al Gore are being lined-up to deliver the coup de grâce to Hillary Clinton and end her campaign to become president.
Falling poll numbers and a string of high-profile blunders have convinced party elders that she must now bow out of the primary race.

Former president Carter and former vice-president Gore have already held high-level discussions about delivering the message that she must stand down for the good of the Democrats.

"They're in discussions," a source close to Carter told Scotland on Sunday. "Carter has been talking to Gore. They will act, possibly together, or in sequence."

Read more: http://news.scotsman.com/latestnews/It39s-Obama-stupid-Carter-and.3976738.jp

[aquart]

1. BEFORE Pennsylvania? Bloody cheek.

[Nostradammit]

4. Cheek?!!!

Gawd-damn you are hilarious!

[MADem]

19. I don't think so. NT

[Zhade]

21. Far less cheek than to be a proven pathological liar like clinton.

NT!

[sallyseven]

186. Obama is also a lier.

Notice that not much came out about his bitter speech. It was before marin County People all millionaires. He takes plenty of money from the rich. Who gives a rats ass what Gore and Carter have to say. Do they know that he doesn't like old people/ I notice they are keeping Obama's wife under wraps because of her mouth. She ais a mean racist.

[DS1]

194. You can barely form a coherent post

[iamthebandfanman]

212. hey, i like liers

its the liars i dont like.

[Webster Green]

214. Marin is amazing, but not all millionaires..

Lot's of folks struggling to get by. Trust me, I know!:smoke:

[snooper2]

236. Sally..

is really seven...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


GOBAMA!

[emilyg]

205. Obama lies. Wake-up.

[The Doctor.]

231. If people who said that ACTUALLY LINKED to or quoted such a lie, then

maybe someone would believe you.

Calling someone who hasn't lied a 'liar' makes you the liar.

[sendero]

50. Someone needs to stop..

... the megalomaniac before she does to the Dem party what Bush Dictatortot has done to the Republicans.

[LiberalLovinLug]

121. Weez all gotta stop

attacking and get behind the one of two admirable nominees that has seemingly won the day
Both Hillary and Obama have swung revolutionary hits at the glass ceiling, and know that it is in the nature of a wild double whammy that the Democrats find themselves stumbling into. The first competent Woman nominee and the first competent African American, in modern history, each of them with advantages and disadvantages, but we should celebrate in our historic acheivment, don't ya think?
all together now...all together now

[ms liberty]

154. Well said - Welcome to DU! n/t

[paulk]

153. megalomaniac?

This race is very close, despite the wishes of the Hillary haters out there - millions of Americans both voted for and support Hillary Clinton. Neither Carter or Gore are stupid enough to do what this article says - they understand the risk of alienating those voters, many of who will tell the party to stick it up their ass if Hillary is forced out now.

[Donkeykick]

177. I agree.

I say let it run it's course. Whoever the victor is has my vote.

[Road Scholar]

239. Damn good point!!!!! nt

[Teaser]

59. why don't you go wish some more hitchhikers dead...

.

[papau]

74. LOL - I agree - but Obama has tried the planted story many times before - this was expected

[Rose Siding]

98. Any links re: "Obama has tried the planted story many times before"?

[lakercub]

220. Source Please

N/M

[HowHasItComeToThis]

124. PLEASE, HILLARY, FOR THE GOOD OF THE NATION

:hippie:

[mwb970]

147. Hillary doesn't seem interested in the "good of the nation".

I wish she would stop reminding me of Rove and the Republicans. Haven't we had enough of this crap?

[OldWorldDem]

149. Not Interested in the Good of the Nation

Hillary has no interest in anything other than her own power. She uses whatever means are necessary to get that power. And her and Bill's attacks on Obama are nothing short of racist. She's like the southern Democratic Segregationists just grabbing for whatever they can in the 60's - no matter the cost to this country.

[Radio_Lady]

152. Welcome to the DU, Old World Dem. So this is your opinion?

This is your first post, correct? Well... the comparison you make is questionable and I have a completely different view. I happen to think Hillary Rodham Clinton would make an excellent president. You cannot convince me that Hillary would do us the kind of harm you suggest.

I was active in Florida politics beginning at age 8, and worked for Senator George Smathers and Senator Claude Pepper. My father was a councilman in North Miami, Florida. I lived in Florida from the 1940s and 1950s, and then moved to New York in the 1960s.

As a television personality on a Florida children's show during college, I was part of the first local program to seat blacks and whites together in an audience. Periodically, I show a photo of a mixed race audience. Want to see it?

Racist? No way. The attacks are ugly, but hopefully, there will be a healing soon. Either way, I'll vote a straight Democratic ticket.

Since you have listed no information on yourself, there's no way to know who. Want to engage?

Cordially,

Radio Lady Ellen in Portland, OR

[ooglymoogly]

181. Well my dear... Your post says it all

for those of us who have lived in Florida. Bragging on something that should be a foregone conclusion is odd at best.

[paulk]

155. blah, blah, blah

:puke:

[SammyWinstonJack]

188. ...

:boring:

[saigon68]

241. ~

[Kurovski]

2. K&R.

We've been waiting.

[napoleon_in_rags]

93. I have a feeling we all may be waiting longer for the presumptive nominee.

Its not that I think this story is all THAT far out, its just the timing doesn't add up to me. If they were going to make a move it would be after her last loss, before she spent a bunch of money in PA. Or it'll come after a heavy PA loss.

[Yael]

3. Wow!!

How reliable is this source?

[40ozDonkey]

5. IF IT'S NOT SCOTSMAN, IT'S CRAP!!!!

:shrug:

[Mojambo]

12. LOL

Love that sketch.

[Cant trust em]

58. That could be the tag line for a brand of whiskey. NT

[GainesT1958]

85. Aye, laddie!

B-)

[barb162]

117. Yeah, that's where all BIG news hits first.

:)

[Ichingcarpenter]

6. The Scotsman is a decent paper and Gore is in Europe right now

So it might have legs.

[Yael]

14. Interesting!

[Ichingcarpenter]

18. The Loch Ness "monster" resurfaces and reveals itself

sometimes to the locals, but many think, the monster lives
deep in the Loch.

[Coexist]

17. that would do so much to heal things

but I'm not going to beleive it until I see it.

[movonne]

31. I think this was purposely by Gore and Carter...this might do it...

[Mojambo]

7. Boy I hope that's true. n/t

[Kurovski]

8. A wee bit more...

"historically, superdelegates have never gone against the public vote, and party insiders say they would face a revolt, or even riots, if they were to do so now.

Obama's campaign has been a phenomenon in American politics, bringing in record numbers of new voters and record funding, and few think the superdelegates would dare deny him victory if he wins the popular vote.

It would also invite the unedifying spectacle of a mostly white elite denying an African American candidate a chance for the presidency. "It would cause a scandal to do that," says one party official. "To turn around to the black community and say, 'You got the most votes, but no'? Unlikely."

[asjr]

9. I imagine Carter and Gore will

not be flattered to be considered hit men. Are you sure this is not the Onion?

[Ichingcarpenter]

13. The Scotsman has been publishing since 1817

It is Scotland's oldest newspaper




History of the Scotsman
http://archive.scotsman.com/scotsman.cfm

[gateley]

28. Hit men, or Healers? nt

[tinrobot]

29. Perhaps it won't be done in public.

Kind of like how the leaders of the House and Senate went to visit Nixon in 1974.

[roguevalley]

97. they are SD and they can announce anytime. if the rest of them go

for Obama, they did so out of free will. The scotsman is a good newspaper.

[baldguy]

10. Carter & Gore are traitors!

Quislings! Benedict Arnolds!

Judases!

:sarcasm:

[Kurovski]

15. ...and they are "dead to us", to boot.

The tires are getting messy under that bus, ain't they?

[saracat]

11. Methinks this is crap. Whatever.

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[goclark]

113. Have you seen the photos of HC chuggung a lug in the

bar tonight?

It's not a pretty series of photos.

[Mudoria]

237. Pretty much like when Obama

rolled that 37 eh?

[juno jones]

122. Yer name says it all, Nurse Retched

Seems to me laddie bo who made the sex-n-drug claims has a record a yard long and has failed several polygraphs on the subject. To deny the claims of such a creep is to get into a 'when did you stop beating your wife' conundrum.

Got any other pithy comments or are you just going to try to give us our thorazine and shut us up?

[DB1]

16. K and R

[Auntie Bush]

20. what! Gore and carter believe in disenfranchising all those voters

who haven't had a chance to vote yet? How despicable! Never did much like Carter myself. He never liked the Clintons and Gore doesn't either. Now we should believe they honestly , without bias, think Barak Wright Obama (Well he doesn't like us to use his other middle name) would do better in the GE? I say...let's wait and see. What's the matter...are they afraid Obama might say something stupid if he has to defend himself against that fighter but likable enough woman? I say let ALL the voters decide...even those in FL and WI.

[mcollier]

23. Sooner rather than later

This coming week will do just fine.

[Zhade]

24. it's not disenfranchisement; you can still vote in the GE.

Try again.

[MindMatter]

88. This whole "disenfranchisement" BS is getting tiresome

In this election cycle, far more voters have had a say than in any primary in 30 years.

If we want to talk about disenfranchising voters, let's talk about IA, NH, and SC always being allowed to go first. That disenfranchises the other 47 states in most election years, but nobody seems overly concerned about that.

Moreover, we have all had the opportunity to provide financial support to our preferred candidates, and this is actually a much greater factor than voting.

[evolvingsteve]

128. YES!

Too True, Amen to that, I agree 111%!

maybe this is too deep for some, but I'm on the same level and page as you!!!



:bounce:

[Kurovski]

25. Do you mean MI?

I think Wisconsin already decided.

[undeterred]

39. We decided for Obama on Feb 19

[Kurovski]

41. Thanks for the verification. (nt)

[monmouth]

27. I'm in FL and don't feel disenfranchised. He's got the nom and I'll

vote for him in the GE...

[depakid]

70. If he gets 2025, then he has the nomination

everything else is just cheap talk.

[guyanakoolaid]

37. I didn't realize Wisconsin was being disenfranchised

:shrug:

Seriously, though, we might as well wait until after PA to do this. If she fails to win by convincing double-digits, she has no real mathematical chance of winning. Then the hammer should fall.

[mhoran]

47. "Disenfranchised"

What a bunch of bull.

[Auntie Bush]

79. You know I mean disenfranchised to mean that they not be allowed to vote

for their candidate in the primaries. If Gore and Carter make her drop out before the PA primaries...that's denying all those Hillary supporters the chance to vote for their favorite candidate. Stop pretending you don't understand. Wow! Look at all these replies from people who couldn't figure that one out.

[TroglodyteScholar]

89. A candidate bowing out does NOT remove their name from the ballot...

...at least, it doesn't in my state. I was still able to vote Edwards after he ducked out.

Nobody's getting disenfranchised. Now, there may be a few sore losers out there...

[Auntie Bush]

91. Edwards dropped out on his volition. If he was forced out by bias party elders

you'd be feeling a little sore.

[beezlebum]

169. edwards, kucinich, gravel et al

were all more or less forced out.

as a former kucinich then edwards supporter, i recall that obama and HRC were quite early on labeled the "frontrunners," before any primaries were even held.

it was infuriating to watch kucinich be denied a fair chance, being completely ignored and mischaracterized etc all over the media from the getgo...

and if you'll recall, edwards was doing fine and had no real reason to drop out just yet (if we're going to keep saying hillary has no reason to drop out), until, of course, he was suddenly being completely ignored etc...

and i do recall repeated suggestions from party "insiders" that edwards was becoming "the new nader," that he should drop out for the good of the party, back when hillary was still the "presumptive nominee."

i was denied my chance to vote for my guys. they were forced out by biased party insiders. not that darned biased math.

ugh.

i'm just happy we've gotten this far- just think- we are THIS close to the end of a nightmarish era (hopefully).

[Pierre.Suave]

217. This is such a good post...

so much commonsense and reason that I am afraid most of DU wont get it because they are too busy fighting with each other.

Thank you.

[lark]

223. Well lucky you,

Your may not have stupid party leaders that want to push the rules and end up getting the voters in the state disenfranchised due to an equally stupid and rigid central party. Yes, the voters in the states of FL and MI were disenfranchised, their votes in the primary are not being counted, and the person who would seem to be "our" nominee supports that. Very Rovian and it has turnred off many voters that the party needs in Nov. Guess Obama doesn't care about possibly losing these 2 states for the GE thru his repeated arrogance?

[mhoran]

92. I do understand.

Candidates opt out at various points throughout the primary process. Voters will be no more "disenfranchised" should Clinton drop out than they were when Edwards dropped out, or Kuchinich, or whomever.

[Auntie Bush]

96. They weren't forced out! They weren't about to possibly win some big states.

That's why the Obama people are sooooo scared. Hillary scares the shit out of them. She's a real fighter! She's about to show the public...in spite of the media...that almost HALF of this country don't want Obama as our president and HALF of us don't think he can win the GE. Why don't Hillary's half count? :shrug:

[gateley]

101. I think it's generally believed

that Edwards was asked to bow out for the good of the party. So his supporters wouldn't have been able to vote for their candidate, either. How would this be different?

And I think he's generally admired for putting the good of the Party ahead of his own political aspirations.

[DissedByBush]

114. Demeaning the word

Primaries are a creation of the parties. They have no constitutional standing. They only way they have anything to do with law is that the parties have used their power to ingrain primaries into law. Primaries aren't a real election, just a group of people deciding who they want to field for President, and your vote not counting has nothing whatsoever to do with your constitutional right to cast your ballot for President.

If you don't like the rules then leave the party or stay in and try to get the national and state leadership to work together. I suggest the latter.

This talk of "disenfranchisement" is demeaning to those people who have truly been unfairly disenfranchised throughout our history.

[Jester Messiah]

142. Bull.

If they (or you) feel so strongly about it, there's no law forbidding you from writing in Hillary's name on the GE ballot. So long as you can vote, you're not disenfranchised, so give it (and us) a rest already.

[CreekDog]

52. you are like a "greatest hits" of denial

:eyes:

and i didn't hear you protest that Clinton's entire campaign was predicated on all the votes after Super Tuesday not mattering.

[Auntie Bush]

80. Huh?

[Skittles]

57. it is indeed CRAP

yet look how many DUers think it's just A-OK

[Jackpine Radical]

65. Jesus. Can't you find someplace else to drip your venom?

[Auntie Bush]

84. I'd much rather drip it on you. Watch out! Drip! Drip! Drip!

By the way sir...I paid for this phone...I mean site.
Sorry, but you'll just have to grow up and learn to share...like your mother taught you. You know, the female like Hillary. Listen to her or you can't have any dessert...and she carries a big stick.

[chill factor]

107. oh, she certainly does!

I watched The Clinton Chronicles this afternoon. There are no two lower sleaze-balls in politics then Bill and Hill! :puke:

[The Wizard]

137. The Clinton Chronicles?

What's that about?

[bitchkitty]

180. Oh Good Lord.

The Clinton Chronicles? Do you also watch and believe Fox News? The PTL club?

Please don't bring that poison here where decent people can see it. There are other wehsites that will just eat that crap with a spoon and call it tasty!

[BattyDem]

66. Since when are voters "disenfranchised" because candidates drop out?

I live in NJ and this election was the first time I actually had a say in choosing the presidential candidate because we always had a late primary. When I voted for John Kerry in the 2004 primary, everyone else had already dropped out. I could have voted for Howard Dean, but it wouldn't have meant a damn thing. I didn't like it, but I certainly wasn't disenfranchised.

Having a "presumptive" nominee before you actually get to cast your vote is NOT disenfranchisement. If Hillary had locked up the nomination on Super Tuesday, like she thought she would, would you be complaining about the late primary states being disenfranchised? I doubt it. :eyes:

[evolvingsteve]

129. Thank you!

you put out the exact words that needed to be stated, you are doing our country so much service, thanks again!



:applause: :patriot:

[BattyDem]

215. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[evolvingsteve]

218. Thanks!

:hi: :pals: :patriot:

[krkaufman]

193. Precisely. Hillary, herself, had predicted the race would be over after Super Tuesday ...

... and was voicing no concern for the post-Super Tuesday voters back when she arrogantly and foolishly thought the nomination was hers. Somehow, this simple fact rarely, if ever, makes its way into the "disenfranchisement" talking points floating about on pundit TV.

[Tunkamerica]

71. you mean michigan? n/t

[Auntie Bush]

87. Congratulations! How'd you figure that one out?

[Tunkamerica]

233. you're delightful

[FatDave]

78. Hey, guess what.

People will still get to vote, their decision will just be a lot easier. It will be like every other election year, where the states with late primaries don't have much say. That's how the primaries work. I lived in Illinois in 2004. Kerry was the nominee long before I got to vote. Life's a bitch.

[Cleita]

81. Hmmm. It seems that this is what the Clinton and Obama

camps did to Edwards before many had a chance to vote for him on super Tuesday. Why is there this outrage all of a sudden when it comes to Hillary?

Frankly, her campaign is beating a dead horse and she should step down graciously like Edwards did when he saw that he was losing.

[FatDave]

86. I don't remember anybody saying Edwards should drop out

And I was an Edwards supporter. His dropping came as a huge shock to me and (I think) a lot of people.

And you're absolutely right. She should step down graciously. The fear is that she won't. She should have done it already.

[Cleita]

105. I'm speculating here, but I'm getting the sense that he

was talked to behind closed doors by the Democratic Party to step down as it seems he wasn't going to get a significant number of votes to split three ways. The writing was on the wall and he read it.

[FatDave]

139. You could be right

At the time, I thought he might be dropping out in order to stop Hillary. He and Obama were splitting the not-Hillary vote, and his dropping before super-Tuesday instead of after seemed to support that. But then he never endorsed, so I don't know what went on.

[Jackpine Radical]

151. I had very much the same feeling.

The timing of his leaving the race, just before Super Tuesday was very interesting, as was his choice of words--"suspending" his campaign.

[Auntie Bush]

90. Why are all the Obama supporters so scared Hillary won't drop out on her own?

Why do you fear her beating Obama in PA and a few other states if you are so sure she can't win anyway. What do you have to lose? Can't you see all the attention the Dems and their issues are getting in the media and press?
McCain is getting shut out of the news and you can thank Hillary for this...if you weren't so busy hating her and trying to shut her up and out of this primary. You should thank her for helping make Obama battle hardened and up to snuff for the GE. As you can see by bittergate ...he can use it and some more will do him good. Don't be small minded and look at the big picture...be foresighted.

[bookman]

99. Here's why..

... the math just isn't there for her. Even with a PA win.

Senator Clinton is a wonderful candidate and I hope she can play a major role in the Senate.

But..

Here's my fear..... "President McCain".

It's time to focus on him and what he stands for.

[Auntie Bush]

103. If Obama wins that's my fear too. So we agree on something. lol

"Here's my fear..... "President McCain"."

[evolvingsteve]

132. ...but

...this statement goes against and contradicts your last "logical" statement......you sure like to jump from one side of the fence to the other in order to fulfill your bias political objectives...
understand your way of calling people out mixed with what you really want, which is Hillary to become the first Woman President, and I will feel sorry for you ahead of time for your denial on this....

[Cleita]

108. I'm not an Obama supporter. I will vote for either one in November

and I didn't vote for either one in the primary. I am standing back looking at this with no emotion one way or the other and it seems to be the time for Hillary to drop out. I would say the same if Obama was losing.

[evolvingsteve]

131. o.k., I'll call you out on that...

...thank you. thank you for making this election so competitive and helping Obama have even MORE thicker skin or prepping him up to face the GE, I'm glad you're not in denial and realize that he will be the nominee and that this contest has made him stronger....

PEACE



:patriot:

[Auntie Bush]

206. Glad to see you realize how helpful Hillary has been to Obama's maturity.

When he wins...he can thank his lucky stars for Hillary and her tenacity!
If she had dropped out and left him alone and too inexperienced to fight off the vicious RW he's be in up to his neck by now and swimming and explaining till the cows came home...digging in deeper every day until he thought the RWer were just plain bitter and were just clinging to their guns and religion just so they can keep their heads above water. Good move by the neophyte!

[evolvingsteve]

208. lol

on a lighter note, keep in mind that when I made that post I was drunk after a long night of pool with friends, so even if I do see this logic I also see the other side of the table on this as well!
As I agree with you this has made him stronger, thanking her is something I disagree with though. Even if she would have pulled out of this months ago, the same tactics that SHE has been using are similar and very complimenting to how FOX and the Right Wing would be attacking Obama.....and he would still have that thick skin for the GE....he doesn't desperately need her for that, Hillary's tactics and mind set are VERY similar to the NEO-CONS, anyone can obviously see that if they think about it....
again, much respect on your point, and I can admit and understand your perspective, I just wonder if you can do the same and amend this topic with the obvious logic I've pointed out as well!

PEACE



:hippie:

[Window]

160. This Senator Obama supporter is not "scared" of Hillary at all. However, she did

say she would fight all the way to and through the convention. If she doesn't win big in Pennsylvania, she should, for the sake of the party, drop out on her own instead of dragging the party down any further.

[evolvingsteve]

130. You said it right!

:thumbsup: :patriot:

[Auntie Bush]

178. Hillary is close to being equal to Obama...especially after PA and the upcoming Primaries.

Edwards was doing very poor in the primaries when he dropped out...don't you remember? He knew he couldn't win with O and H in the race...so he politely dropped out on his own accord...wasn't pushed out! Almost half our population wants Hillary. I don't see why she should drop out until she feels she has done all she can...which includes getting more delegates that will give her more power in the party to get her ideas and Edwards out (think, her Health Care Plan vs Obama's and Edwards care for the poor)

Suppose we have some more bittergates...likely to happen from a novice politician. Look at Hillary...even an experienced politician like Hillary make mistakes...big time. I think it's kind of good to have a spare tire in case you get a flat...good insurance for Democrats. Makes good sense to me!

[NCDem60]

219. Here's why.

You said, "Almost half our population wants Hillary. I don't see why she should drop out until she feels she has done all she can..."

More than half have said they want Obama. That's all that should matter.

[Andrea]

228. More than half is all that should matter?

That's the problem with so many supporters on both sides. What should matter most is winning in November. Neither one of these two has much chance of that, sadly. The behavior of their supporters is just tearing the party down.

[chill factor]

102. nobody is disenfranchising any voter......

the primary states will still hold their primaries...people can still vote their preference...but I have to say...this would be a good kick in the ass for Clinton. I can only hope and pray it is true! :bounce:

[Umbram]

174. I know the people that think up your talking points are bright people

but you should personally educate yourself as to what disenfranchisement really is.

[Doremus]

182. Enough with the 'disenfranchisement' BS please

Perhaps you should read up on how Dem nominees used to be chosen.

That anyone but party bosses gets to vote now is light-years better than how they used to do it.

[Eric Condon]

216. "Barak Wright Obama." Nice. Not at all offensive.

Real classy, but then again, what else should I expect? Look at your candidate and her surrogates. If you think their blatant race-baiting is okay, then it logically follows that you should engage in it yourself.

[lark]

222. I think you mean FL and MI?

:hi:

[Baby Snooks]

22. Who better than Gore to do so?

Had it not been for Bob Strauss, a supposed staunch Democrat who no one realized was also a friend of George HW Bush, Al Gore would have been the nominee in 1992. But he and Ann Richards, sometimes not the brightest light bulb, convinced Pamela Harriman that she should switch her support for Al Gore to Bill Clinton and with that a candidate was born.

Had it not been for Bill Clinton and his famous cigar, Al Gore might have won by such a large margin in 2000 that not even the hanging chads in Florida would have made any difference.

Had it not been for Hillary Clinton and her "destiny" Al Gore might have been the candidate in 2008.

Who better than to serve the Clintons up for public execution than Al Gore?

[Jackpine Radical]

67. And furthermore, there was never any love lost between Hill & Al.

All the more reason it must be done in private, and involve at least Carter and preferably other Democratic eminences grises as well. Hillary is likely to (incorrectly) read anything Gore does as vendetta-motivated. It will probably happen after Pennsylvania, and only if she does not score a big victory. And only if she doesn't capitulate after being "counseled" in private would the superdelegates execute the "nuclear option" of going public en masse.

[LiberalFighter]

162. If the animosity is there between Gore and the Clintons then I don't

see Hillary agreeing to stepping down. I would fight even harder if it was me.

The super delegates have that option but would it be right for them to do so under the circumstances? Would they be doing it of their own free will or forced by the top leaders?

[Jackpine Radical]

166. Especially if Gore went public before making a private appeal,

She would just dig in her heels. I don't know how deep the animosity between the two is, but certainly they didn't get along in the Clinton years.

[monmouth]

26. I'm saying a real Hail Mary right now.....n/t

[Frustratedlady]

30. Is this for real? I can't imagine some SD would vote for McCain....

"Yet some in the Democratic elite are wary of moving too soon. Polls show that 30% of Clinton's supporters would vote for McCain if she fails to become the nominee."

This is the craziest election process this year.

[Zambero]

34. Remember all the GOP voters who would NEVER support McCain?

Well guess what, they seem to be coming around. And so will Democrats for their nominee, once this is settled.

[evolvingsteve]

133. !

Well said!

[chapel hill dem]

44. Even in solid, day-glow Carolina Blue Chapel Hill, I have heard supporters of both sides

say that they would rather vote for McCain than the other Democratic candidate. They each say McC is "almost a Democrat", and since the conservatives hate him, he must not be that bad...

If this place has people openly saying they will cross party lines, then I cannot imagine what is going on in the purple states.

This "sibling-cide" needs to stop soon. (well, it is not really "fratricide", is it?)

[darue]

48. making it clear to these people that mccain is NOT "almost a dem" is priority one n/t

[chapel hill dem]

146. Politics is a team sport. Their side is ready to play. Imagine two star athletes

arguing about which one will be the captain, or pitch the game, or start as QB, etc. Right now, with HRC having said that McCain is better than Obama, our team is becoming fractured into three camps and one of the camps is in the "R" column.

While I supported other primary candidates who one-by-one dropped out, I think the SD's need to back Obama for the simple reason that if he is not nominated, his youth base will protest by staying home and not voting at all.

And, not scoring a point for your team when you have the opportunity is pretty close to scoring for the other side.

FWIW

[mcg]

190. The myth that McCain is "almost a Democrat' or a moderate.

He's a right-wing extremist neocon republican, and one of the sleaziest. A few token votes here and there (which are perhaps just camouflage) do not make him a moderate. Here's some info to pass on (I think it comes from MoveOn):

10 things you should know about John McCain:

1. John McCain voted against establishing a national holiday in honor of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Now he says his position has "evolved," yet he's continued to oppose key civil rights laws.

2. According to Bloomberg News, McCain is more hawkish than Bush on Iraq, Russia and China. Conservative columnist Pat Buchanan says McCain "will make Cheney look like Gandhi."

3. His reputation is built on his opposition to torture, but McCain voted against a bill to ban waterboarding, and then applauded President Bush for vetoing that ban.

4. McCain opposes a woman's right to choose. He said, "I do not support Roe versus Wade. It should be overturned."

5. The Children's Defense Fund rated McCain as the worst senator in Congress for children. He voted against the children's health care bill last year, then defended Bush's veto of the bill.

6. He's one of the richest people in a Senate filled with millionaires. The Associated Press reports he and his wife own at least eight homes! Yet McCain says the solution to the housing crisis is for people facing foreclosure to get a "second job" and skip their vacations.

7. Many of McCain's fellow Republican senators say he's too reckless to be commander in chief. One Republican senator said: "The thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine. He's erratic. He's hotheaded. He loses his temper and he worries me."

8. McCain talks a lot about taking on special interests, but his campaign manager and top advisers are actually lobbyists. The government watchdog group Public Citizen says McCain has 59 lobbyists raising money for his campaign, more than any of the other presidential candidates.

9. McCain has sought closer ties to the extreme religious right in recent years. The pastor McCain calls his "spiritual guide," Rod Parsley, believes America's founding mission is to destroy Islam, which he calls a "false religion." McCain sought the political support of right-wing preacher John Hagee, who believes Hurricane Katrina was God's punishment for gay rights and called the Catholic Church "the Antichrist" and a "false cult."

10. He positions himself as pro-environment, but he scored a 0—yes, zero—from the League of Conservation Voters last year.

[CreekDog]

54. 30% of her *remaining* supporters

as her numbers dwindle the true believers increase and there's no reasoning with supposed Democrats who think McCain is better than any Democrat running at the moment.

[tblue37]

64. I think that passage means the *electorate*--i.e., the voters themselves, not the SD. n/t

[Jackpine Radical]

68. I'm sure that's not in reference to the superdelegates.

I think they mean that 30% of those in the general public who support her do so out of personal loyalty or maybe feminist sentiments, and would go to McCain in the general election.

[Baby Snooks]

118. Why not? She suggested McCain was better than Obama...

The Hillary supporters just won't see the reality, will they? Like little children following their Pied Piper. And of course when they find themselves drowning, their Pied Piper will stand on the riverbank laughing at them.

[Christa]

32. As much as I want this to be true

I think this is pure speculation. To force Hillary out of the race will mean losing a lot of her supporters.

I think it would be wise to let her continue making a fool of herself, and then dropping out with the little bit of grace she has left (if any).

[roseBudd]

33. "To turn around to the black community and say, 'You got the most votes, but no'? Unlikely."

[Horse with no Name]

35. Hmmm...I guess Gore was lying when he said he wasn't a broker

:eyes:
Personally...I will believe the man that I saw say that than I will a "source close to Carter".

[Demobrat]

36. It's hard to believe either one would try to manipulate the outcome

one way or another, even if they wanted to. Even if it were best for the party. Painful as it is to watch, if Hillary wants to drag this out to the bitter end, it's her right. Anything else would be less than legitimate.

[ajamo]

38. Hillary and McCain

Is she a Democrat? or is she in with McCain? the are both ganging up on Obama. Knit picking, do we see Obama do it. There sure as hell are plenty to picking to do on Clinton and her support of free trade.
I sometimes think she is having hot flashes.
Enough of Clinton's and Bushes in the White House.
What has she done to get bills passed to help turn our Government around? Think about it a bit. They sure as hell don't need money.
Vote the one who wants to get our Government back where all of us can be proud of it. VOTE OBAMA

[Baby Snooks]

196. The Republicrats

The neo-con artists. Oligarchists. Fascists. Whatever you want to call them. They are Republicrats. The new party. If Hillary Clinton is the nominee, it won't matter whether she or John McCain wins. They win.

The last real Republican was Ronald Reagan. The last real Democrat was Al Gore. The reality. Everyone since has been a Republicrat. "By the corporation, for the corporation." The flag-wavers in both parties are fools if they think otherwise.

The worst of the lot is Nancy Pelosi but then if it weren't for Nancy Pelosi and her "table" a lot of Democrats, and a lot of Republicans, wouldn't have finally taken a good look at what is going on in Washington. They asked the question of "Who does she serve?" and then started asking the same question of their own representatives and their senators and then started asking the same question of their party. And a growing number of people are finding the same answer. Neither party really serves the American people any longer. We are no longer "by the people, for the people" but "by the corporation, for the corporation."

And they began to look at Barack Obama whose real message is not about parties but about people. Even Republicans are looking at him. Republicans who would never vote for Hillary Clinton and would prefer not to vote for John McCain and probably would vote for Barack Obama.

That's the one thing Hillary Clinton cannot claim. That she might be able to draw support from Republicans at the polls in November.

The American people, some of them anyway, are finally realizing the party system has become a scam perpetrated on the American people.

Someone posted something recently about how they were glad the Clintons were raking in the cash and how it was time the Democrats started raking it in along with the Republicans. Appalling.

Even more appalling was the suggestion the Clintons "earned it" by working hard when in fact they haven't worked at all unless you call influence peddling and selling out the American people working hard.

The reality is that if the candidates are Hillary Clinton and John McCain there will be Democrats who simply won't vote and Republicans who simply won't vote. They will join the majority of Americans who gave up on democracy a long time ago. And the only ones who will vote are the flag-wavers who will vote believing they are voting for a party. They are. The problem is that whether you are a Democrat or a Republican there will be only one party. The Republicrat Party.

What's sad is there are people in both parties who like the Republicrats. They like the "by the corporation, for the corporation" because they are doing well by it. To hell with everyone else.

That's what America has come to? To hell with everyone else?

[Diane R]

40. Damn straight. Her latest trick with the 'bitter' comment, taped by a spy, is the last straw.

[Zambero]

171. This was set up by a Clinton spy?

Amazing, I never knew that! So how much is Sean Hannity contributing to the Clinton campaign in order to get the first grab at these sound bytes?

[lark]

224. That's just plain crazy talk

(going further with the story)

Yep, Clinton drugged him, made him say mean condescending things about poor white folk, and had the person there just ready to get it on tape. Yep, I'm sure that's just how it happened, ain't it Jeb?

I love how Obama, the media, and his supporters are all leaving out the fact that he included "anti-trade sentiment" right in there with guns and religion and not liking folks like themselves. Oops, isn't that a little contradictory to what he's been saying in PA and OH? Has "his greatness" been caught out on this issue?

Stay tuned for news at 10.

[MrBlueSky]

42. Oh please, oh please...

We're FINALLY ending the McLame surge period!

That'll make people like my friend Rita very upset, who, at a recent dinner gave us a VERY stern lecture about why Clinton is, essentially, to sit at the right (left?) hand of the Throne of the LORD and Obama is scum of the Earth.

Now, personally, my boy Edwards dropped out before the Washington State caucuses, so I don't really care who gets the nomination... Clinton or Obama.

However, immediately after the final blow is hit, Obama MUST offer Clinton the Vice Presidency.

If that doesn't happen, then people like my friend will throw the election to McWar. She is threatening to stay home on election night or else write in Clinton's name. I know that there are many others who are like her.

That is, in effect, a vote for Bush's 3rd term.

I told her that, personally, I cannot handle another 4 years of the same CRAP as the last 8.

[Lena inRI]

43. Real doozy of a pun. . .

. . .midway down the OP article. . .

"But the party's top brass have concluded her further participation in the race can only harm the party as Republican nominee John McCain strives to take advantage of her increasingly BITTER battle with Obama."

Bingo. . .or "bitter-bitter-bing", as they say in the Sopranos.

Hillary's bitterness is unelectable, not Barack's remarks about bitter PA laborers.

:think: :think: :think: :think: :think:

[evolvingsteve]

134. LOVE!

Thank you for stating, VERY well said!

[Demeter]

45. It Seems Out of Character

Neither of these men could be arsed to do or say anything about Bush's ruinous policies, and they are going to go beat up on Hillary?

I'll believe it when I see it.

[TexasBushwhacker]

46. Yeah, I'm not thinking this will happen

It's one thing to endorse. It's something else entirely to tell someone to drop out. Gore wouldn't run against Hillary, and he's certainly not going to tell her to quit. Carter's endorsement would have little or no influence, so he's in no position to be telling anyone to quit, and he knows it.

[Lars39]

49. And Gore has already stated he would not be "kingmaker".

[Jackpine Radical]

69. But he might be a Queen(bee)killer

[still_one]

62. Both Carter and Gore DID speak out against bush's ruinous policies

However, I do agree with you, but for different reasons.

I don't think they will endorse anyone at this stage, they will let the primaries run their course, and WHOEVER is leading they will come out with support for the leading candidate

[frogcycle]

72. huh?

They have both been outspoken in criticism of bush.

[Andrea]

119. What?

Both of these men spoke out repeatedly and forcefully about Bush's ruinous policies. What do you mean?

[lark]

227. Read much?

Al Gore has spoken out forcefully against Bushco and their Iraq war. It's just another reason he's my hero. I can not see Al doing this. He's too much of a straight shooter to try and short cut this process of seeing if the voters can pick a nominee.

[wisteria]

51. Frankly, I am with them after this latest example of Hillary arming the Repubs with ammunition .

How dare she accuse Senator Obama of being an elitist. She has stabbed not only Obama but the Democratic party in the back with that comment. She has no shame,morals or dedication to anything or anyone other than herself.

[evolvingsteve]

135. /........

too true......too true

[Zambero]

172. Clinton has jumped out of the kitchen sink...

..and into the toilet bowl. Let's flush it in PA!

[totodeinhere]

53. Can we Obama supporters believe this or is it too good to be true?

And the question remains. Even if the story is true, would Carter and Gore really have the power to cause Clinton to drop out? Surely it would be a big blow to her campaign if they asked her to, but there would be nothing in the DNC rules that would require her to drop out if she didn't want to.

[FatDave]

82. It's not a matter of their power so much as influence

I think it would go down like this: Gore and Carter quietly, privately, meet with Hillary and say "Hillary, it's time." If she says no way, they can then say "Hillary, you're hurting our chances in November, and we're giving you this opportunity to go graciously. If you don't take it, we will very publicly endorse Obama and call for you to drop out immediately."

It's sad that it's got to be done, but it's really got to be done. She's long put her own ambitions above the party. She has no path to victory and seems to now be shooting for 2012. Enough is enough.

[NoodleyAppendage]

55. The Night of the Long Knives. Stick her till she's politically dead. Enough of her selfish bullsh*

J

[tandem5]

56. nah, I dont see that happening.

[still_one]

60. How accurate is the scotsman? /nt

[progetto]

61. More likely Carter and Gore could ask the SDs to choose

before the convention. Of course an Obama upset in PA could speed things up.

[grytpype]

63. It's about time!

It's time to shove Hill and Bill aside and start the general election!

[DogPoundPup]

73. I OBJECT!

To this sentence... "Gore blames his loss to George Bush in the 2000 presidential election on the impeachment of Clinton triggered by his White House affair with Monica Lewinsky."

I never heard this claim before. Is this true? Anyone?

[Andrea]

120. Like many statements in the article,

it is rank speculation presented as fact.

[susankh4]

127. I thought he blamed Ralph Nader???

When all along he blamed Clinton?

And should have been blaming Katherine Harris??????

[FatDave]

75. Ichingcarpenter, do not forget

You owe me a metaphorical beer if she's out before Pennsylvania.

[Ichingcarpenter]

94. Wow... I forgot about that.. But I still think it will be after PA

I think, I would drink with you, no matter who wins the bet!

[Gold Metal Flake]

76. If this comes to pass, there will be odd sounds coming from DU.

First, a great sucking sound as the hordes of Repukes leaving DU induces a temporary vacuum. This will be followed by the sounds of a billion mouse clicks as the Democrats remaining clear their ignore lists.

[Yes We Did]

77. Please SDs! Do something! She is an utter embarrassment!

Republicans are starting to say we act just like them.

[GainesT1958]

83. They'll likely wait until after Pa....

To do it, and then they'll probably weigh in.

Their action(s) should send a strong signal that a NEW person is in charge of the Party's "kitchen sink" now!

B-)

[downindixie]

95. Let Hill be the V.P.

and Obama put her in her place like V.P.'s used to be treated! Give her a closet as an office and no phone! Do not let her have any leeway!

[lark]

229. Treat her like the "little woman"

I don't think so!!!

[Phoonzang]

100. *Expresses Skepticsm*

It would be nice but really...too good to be true. Also, I don't think it would work.

[Botany]

104. Right from the horse's mouth

Will Hillary be bitter? :rofl:

[FredStembottom]

106. Please let this be true.........

.... we are screwing up! Mc Cain is WINNING already!

:banghead:

[doublethink]

109. Love for it to be true ... but I doubt it ... and I have my reasons. n.t.

[Name removed]

111. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Missouri Blue]

112. I don't think anything short of a Pennslyvania defeat will convince her.

It might convince her if a big majority of the Super-delegates tell her to quit. For the most part, though, the Clintons hate the idea of defeat.

But she has a huge amount of bargaining power for anyone who wants her to drop out. What if she decides to run as an Independent? If so, we're talking catastrophe for the party.

So, if they want her to drop out, the Party is going to have to have to give her a lot.

[leftrightwingnut]

157. Yep, she has half the delegates. But she is losing bargaining power every day.

The longer she hangs in there, keeps Penn on as an adviser and uses the same talking points as McCain, I think she loses influence within the party. She may threaten to run as an independent but it wouldn't work out for her. She, like many other indpendents, would be labeled a wingnut spoiler. In the end, she wouldn't gain anything.

On the other hand, has McCain declared his running mate? If Hillary wants to go atomic, pairing up with McCain just might do it. :yoiks:

[DissedByBush]

115. Oh please please please

Let it be true. I don't think I can do two dynasties sharing the WH for 28 years straight (counting this one as two-termer). 36 years if you count daddy Bush as VP.

Whatever Obama may do, just getting elected will be a bigger change than most people realize.

[FatDave]

140. I'm 38 years old

As long as I've been able to vote, there has never been a presidential election without a Bush or a Clinton at the top of the ticket. It's time for some new blood. Past time.

[LiberalFighter]

161. Excuse me but did you not read where Obama is related to the Bush's?

So how does that stop the so called old blood from continuing? And if I am not mistaken, if the 22nd Amendment was not in effect how many would had still voted for Bill Clinton and gotten him elected. I but plenty!

So what if you have only had the Bush's and Clinton as President in your lifetime? That is not a good reason to use to keep a candidate from office. You haven't lived under just those two families in your lifetime.

You haven't had it worse than others either. Those who were 38 during the 1948 election only had Hoover or FDR at the top of the ticket during their voting lifetime. 2 people not 3 as in your case. In fact, they couldn't vote until they were 21. So in effect they only had FDR as a choice on the Democratic ticket.

[FatDave]

164. Oh for fuck's sake

I'm sure I'm related to Rasputin if you dig deep enough. And did I say it was the only reason to keep her from office? No, it's one of many. Look at my post history, you'll see plenty of better reasons. This one just happened to be on topic to the post I was replying to. Jesus, you're a touchy lot.

[LiberalFighter]

167. I have every right to be touchy considering everyone is making accusations

about each candidate that don't necessarily hold water. And especially from those that in all probability don't know diddly about political campaigns.

[pauldg0]

116. Man I hope this is wrong....

Carter with Gore endorsing Obama?? I think I'm going to be sick. Carter did not get one Bill through during his stay. Man this is weak!!!!

[LiberalLovinLug]

123. Both great men

Carter was the closest to a pure Jesus freak in modern Presidential history
non of the present day Holy Joe farce that they clumsily act out in Washington today.

but then I don't think you can be a real Christian and also be President, even if you do win a Nobel.

Even Huckabee agreed there.

Carters was also the first environmentally conscious administration. Nice of Ronnie to rip off those solar tiles first thing upon moving in. Who knows where we'd be if America would have jumped onto that bandwagon and never looked back. Maybe stop those assholes that killed the electric car as well.

Gore, worked very hard to ensure that the internet, in its open access way, was made available to the general public. No, he didn't actually invent it.
He is a leading voice for attacking global warming which is a far bigger threat than al Qaeda.
I for one thought the under-promotion by the MSM still didn't take away from some awesome performances in the Live Earth concert.

Why pray tell do you dis these stalwarts of the party?

[laylah]

145. No, but he brokered the

release of the Iranian hostages, only to be "trumped" by Daddy Bush with promises of firearms if they held the hostages until Raygun's inauguration day. Voila! Iran-Contra and the rest is history, as they say.

[Zambero]

173. Does the Camp David accord count for anything?

Nothing of that diplomatic significance has been achieved since then. Admittedly Carter has been a better ex-President than President, having become an unwitting victim of his own micromanagement while in office. Still, he commands much respect within the Democratic party, and the party is what needs to be persuaded at this point.

[99th_Monkey]

125. OMG!! ~ Go Jimmy!! ~ Go Al!! ~ GObama!!

[susankh4]

126. Bullying... Yeah, that will work....

Sending two high profile white men in to bully the lone standing woman out of the race?

That would be a death sentence to the Democratic female vote. I think they are smart enough to get that. Maybe not.

If it is true... I hope they have a plan to reconcile with the 100s of 1000s of us who will feel robbed...... and disenfranchised.

[evolvingsteve]

136. Ha!

You crack me up....that's all I'm going to say and many after your comment will prove to you WHY you are one sided and WHY it will be the least of our worries come November.

[susankh4]

138. You just keep evolving there, Steve.

:popcorn:

[FatDave]

141. Oh, for the love reason!

It doesn't have a damned thing to do with race or gender. You know what statements like yours are? They are sexist. How do you like them apples? You, susankh4, are being sexist when you cry "White men attacking a woman! White men attacking a woman!" In fact, it could be argued that since you point out their race, completely unnecessarily, you're also being racist. Who'da thunk? Susankh4, a racist, sexist, fool.

[evolvingsteve]

200. *smile*

very well said, while I've "Evolved" in my lifetime and will continue to do so for the rest of my days on earth(or grow, whatever you want to call it)...she still has A LOT to learn when it comes to her Racist and Sexist language that she chooses to use (Susankh4).....that is why people like her will not matter in the GE, so maybe SHE needs to Evolve herself up a few notches and catch up to us when it comes intellect (grow, mature, look inside of herself, WHATEVER you want to call it...but, take into mind that at least I CAN point out all of this without bringing up Race or Gender)

Great points made FatDave! :yourock:

We seriously need to talk more about the SEXISM that has been taking place in this country.....we don't talk enough about this!

PEACE

:hippie:

[susankh4]

204. Oldest trick in the book....

accuse the minority of being the oppressor.

How long have you been a Dem, exactly FatDave?

[FatDave]

235. If the shoe fits...

Do you not see that you're the one bringing sex and race into this? Does anybody who delivers bad news to Hillary have to be a white woman? Because, well, you started crying "white men! white men!" It seems to me that you're definitely prejudiced against white men, at least in the context of who can say bad things about Hillary.

And that, my dear, is being sexist and racist. End of story. I'm not saying you are a sexist, or you are a racist. I'm saying your present actions are. A little prejudice seems is OK to you, as long as it's in service of your goal.

And I've been a democrat my whole god-damned life. At the age of 6 I voted for Jimmy Carter in the Weekly Reader election. I voted to give him a second term in 1980. At the age of 16, two years before I could even vote, I went to Washington D.C. with a peace group I belonged to (headed by Ed Fallon, now a prominent Iowa Democrat, though at the time he was just an activist) to walk the final miles of the Great Peace March For Global Nuclear Disarmament. I voted for Dukakis in the first election I was eligible to vote in, though I had caucused for Paul Simon. Remember Paul Simon? I miss Paul Simon. I've never voted for a republican in my life, and I've never missed a presidential or mid-term congressional election. This year I was a delegate to my county convention. And even if Hillary somehow magically ends up being our nominee, even though I think she would be the worst possible choice for a myriad of reasons, I will vote for her in November to avoid a McCain presidency.

So fuck you for questioning my commitment to the democratic party. Yeah, go on, alert me. I can take it.

[emilyg]

207. This woman would be gone.

[cyclezealot]

143. Should Hillary take Penna. decisivley

She might have a chance at the nomination. If not, she' done. For that reason , they should leave her alone ; until at least PA. If she does not clean up there, it over. and She then should give up. For the sake of the country and the party. For all that, she should her her own self interest. If she does not. It will hurt her stature in the Senate among Democrats. None of us want that.

[Preening Fop]

144. Could simply be, Chatty-Poo within one of the permanently entrenched Plump Political Parties....

:nuke: :puffpiece: :nuke:

[quickesst]

148. So....

another quitter(Gore) wants HRC to quit. I guess you're not a good Democrat, unless you can fold like a bad poker hand under a little pressure. Personally, I'm sick of the word quit being synonomous with being a "good" democrat. If Obama gets the nomination, expect Gore and Kerry to recommend quitting "for the good of the country" when the going gets a little rough. At that point, it will be like the V8 commercial. "I COULD'VE HAD A FIGHTER!"
quickesst

[lark]

232. What could Al have done?

The Supreme Court threw out his case thru sheer baiased (un)reasoning. There was no place else to go? So, what should he have done,where could he have fought further? He fought plenty hard and would have won except it was a pre-determined battle and he'd hit the proverbial brick wall.

Now, if you want to talk quitters, talk about Kerry. He's didn't fight at all in OH, when it was an obvious case of vote jacking.

[shaniqua6392]

150. Isn't this the same paper that had the Obama advisor calling Clinton a "Monster"?

They don't seem to be the best source for info on our elections. I don't care how long they have been in business. I think the paper should stay out of our business. I also don't think it would be wise for Carter and Gore to inject into this. I don't think Sen. Clinton and her supporters would be very happy to be encouraged to act like Al Gore and quit.

[Window]

156. K/R.

:kick:

[Algorem]

158. 2 losers are gonna pick our next winner for us?good luck with that.

[skooooo]

163. You're the loser

Nice way to talk about two important people of "our" party.

[Algorem]

165. they both lost ,didn't they,winner?Carter gave us reagan,gore gave us bush.

if these two losers pick the democratic candidate for everyone,i'll just vote for Kucinich,or Nader,fuck their whole wimpy mess.Kerry,Dasschole...who needs it.

[Zambero]

184. No, it was the Supreme Court that gave us Bush, 5-4

Remember Florida 2000 and Jeb's personal puppet Ms. Harris setting up the framework for a Bush "victory"? Tom DeLay sending in his goons to disrupt the recount process (while Harris's clock ticked toward an arbitrary deadline she'd set) was also a nice touch. At least Jeb was "recused" from the process! :sarcasm:

To the point, this latest pissing match is all about Hillary (forget about the country), who by most accounts has about a 5-10% chance of securing the nomination. For that slim chance, she would gladly render Obama damaged goods for the general election. She's certainly done her darndest to make Bush clone John McCain a winner.

[Lucky 13]

183. I'm sorry, you think two Nobel prize winners are LOSERS?

You are pathetic and every bit as awful as the republicans.

[Algorem]

187. I'm sorry, but they sure know how to lose presidential elections.

You're truly special and really really wonderful.

[Lucky 13]

199. At least Gore and Carter don't actively harm the party.

You are the one tearing down our best and brightest Democratic heroes because they don't like your ridiculous, lying, desperate, distorting, cackling, embarrasing MESS of a candidate.

I fully expected Hillbots would turn on Carter and Gore. What you don't realize is they have earned way more credibility than Hillary or her Pot Bangers. Maybe of small subset of Hill's supporters will feign outrage at their intervention, but the vast majority of democrats, even those who supported Hillary, will realize that this is for the good of the party. And soon, very very soon, we will be united behind Obama.

Those that don't will quickly become IRRELEVANT.

Gore and Carter CAN effectively end this thing. I hope they will. I think they SHOULD.

[Algorem]

209. Geepers,I'm sorry about that,Mr. Lucky.

Sorry that you are so tragically mistaken,I mean.

[Lucky 13]

225. That's Ms. Lucky to you.

[lark]

230. Are you even a Democrat?

Al Gore didn't lose the presidency, it was stolen from him by a cadre of RW appointed Supreme Court Injustices! Al Gore was our rightful president in 2000

[LiberalFighter]

159. It would be inappropriate for Carter and Gore to be brought in for this.

Remember this article?

Clinton ouster could alienate some women

Amid mounting calls from top Democrats for Sen. Hillary Clinton to step aside and clear the path for rival Sen. Barack Obama in the presidential race, strategists are warning of damage to the party's chances in November if women believe that a mostly male party establishment is unfairly muscling Clinton out of the race.

"Women will indeed be upset if it appears people are trying to push Hillary Clinton out of the way," said Carol Fowler, the South Carolina Democratic chair who is backing Obama. "If you are going to ask her to withdraw, you'd better be making a strong case."

Clinton probably will end the primary season narrowly trailing Obama, but he is unlikely to have the 2,024 delegates needed to win outright, meaning that the nominee will be determined by roughly 800 "superdelegates."

Debra Starks, 53, thinks sexism is playing a role in urging Clinton out of the race. "She's a strong woman and needs to stay in there," Starks said at a Clinton rally.

AND WHAT ABOUT letting the people decide? Wasn't that the response from posters here? And so called dumbass pundits on tv? Why should the scumbag tv and print pundits be twisting their stories to decide for us what our party and the voters should do? EF THEM!!

Does anyone know how many more people are enthused about the election because states that never before in deciding the outcome of the presidential preference election are now part of the campaign? Here in Indiana Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Chelsea Clinton and Obama have made many campaign stops. People got to meet the candidates and their spouses.

Last nite at our Congressional Democratic Dinner we probably had the best Dinner Program EVER. We had our candidate for Congress, Mike Montagano who gave the best speech that I have heard him give and gives us the best chance of unseating our current Representative. We had preferential candidate Jill Long Thompson present her case to be the next Governor and oust Mitch Daniels who sold our toll road to a foreign company. She made a good effort despite her voice being weak from talking on the campaign. And surrogates for the Clinton and Obama campaign speak. It was exciting! And Carter, Gore and party leaders in Washington want to take that away from us?

The best speaker at the event was our former Secretary of State, Joe Hogsett who represented Hillary. Of course it helps when he has campaigned many times in our neck of the woods in the past 20 years. Professor Charles Olgetree spoke for Obama. Now, most of us here in Indiana know who is Joe Hogsett. Few if any, knew who is Charles Olgetree. Apparently, the Obama campaign thought because he makes the national talk shows that we should know him. He gave a good speech too but definitely not as good as Joe.

By the way, even though Joe is supporting Hillary he made some statements. One, there isn't much difference between Hillary and Obama. Two, we should all go out and support our nominee doing everything we can. And three, no matter who becomes the nominee we need to support them in November.

Doesn't sound like it is breaking the party up here in Indiana.

Here is a link with another person's view of last nite's event.

Third Congressional District Dinner

[Lucky 13]

185. Women are not going to turn their backs on the Democratic party.. and for good reason.

Mention "Supreme Court" and pro-choice in the same sentence and it will snap everyone back into reality enough to make sure the Republicans don't get to nominate another Justice. Any suggestion otherwise is just FOOLISH.

[evolvingsteve]

201. Amen to that!

:think:

[LiberalFighter]

211. They may not turn their backs on the party but they also WON'T

put the same level of enthusiasm into the election by encouraging others to vote or volunteering at phone banks or other campaign activities. I know from experience!

[Lucky 13]

226. That's ok. We've proven we do well on the ground.

The groundswell of people starting work on their first camaign is huge. We got grassroots organization baby. We take care of the heavy lifting, just be sure to get your behind in the polling booth in November. We do that, we got this thing locked up.

[LiberalFighter]

238. And you know that it will be accomplished how?

I've got over 20 years experience involved in political campaigns and elections.

Right now I am working on filling the positions for election workers and there is 3 weeks yet to go. We have 442 positions out of the 558 needed for the Democratic positions. And haven't heard anything from either campaign to help fill them with bodies. And we are the 2nd largest city in the state.

There is 133 days (19 weeks) til the National Convention and 204 days (29 weeks) til the General Election. Too much time for the support to diminish.

[Massachusetts]

168. Rethugs are licking their chops at the thought of Obama

Obama is an EMPTY SUIT that has convinced to many naive Dems and others he
is worthy and can lead the United States out of the mess we are in.

Remember how effective Jimmy Carters tenure in the WH was? He was the Dems answer as the great Messiah back then.

So all you misinformed Dems, take off your Berkinstocks open a can of Billy beer (Billy Carter), and reflect. Do you really think that another male with a golden tongue and minimal political credentials both foreign and domestic is the answer to this country's problems?

Hillary is the answer, the International community thinks so, as do most clear headed Americans (imo).

By the way, I'm a "Baby Boomer" male that has never and will never be "Politically Correct", and she has my confidence and support.

[truedelphi]

195. The man who is sitting in the WH right now was once an empty suit

But a good portion of voters were convinced that he would be a good person to have a beer with.

And Obama is distnguishing himself by talking honestly - something that the Amerian public is hungry for.

[evolvingsteve]

203. Wrong...

I think you need to re-check your facts about the "International Community" supporting Clinton, from the numbers I know and the world wide polls, and from their very own words, the "International Community" Respects and Appreciates Obama more than Clinton....many people from different countries have already stated that he would be the best to lift up America and be the best person to gain back our credibility to the world.....Obama even WON the contest amongst Americans Over Seas....
I'm glad you have that self awareness on not being politically correct, it seriously shows! maybe one day you can improve that...HOPEfully

[TheDudeAbides]

170. Looking for credible info

Hi all,

Voting is coming to my state soon (NC). I figure it's time for me to learn about the two remaining candidates and pick one. So, I stumbled upon your web site (democracyunderground.com), and figured I'd find the truth here; the name gives me that impression!

Anyway, this is the first article I find here (on home page), and I'm really surprised by this article! It just goes contrary to my impression of how Democracy is supposed to work. I want to vote and I want it counted! Don't I get to participate? I have to say, I'm pretty darned skeptical of this article. Even if Obama is running away with this thing, NC would like to participate and show our support for him (or not). Since when did the elite get to preempt the process? Sounds like a "W" move to me.

Is this for real? Is democracyunderground.com a credible web site? If not, anyone have suggestions on where to find non-biased credible info that isn't controlled by MSM (the "corporation")?

-- The Dude Abides

[LWolf]

175. I certainly hope it doesn't play out this way.

If the party is going to act "together, or in sequence," I hope it will be to broker a 3rd candidate who can win in November.

Shoving Obama down my throat isn't a great way to motivate me next fall.

[RestoreGore]

176. More crap on the frontpage...

For those who really care about Al Gore, they watched his interview on Sixty Minutes on March 30 where he stated publicly that he is not looking to be a "Boss Tweed" type broker in this. Matter of fact, even discussing politics was not something he seemed to want to do in lieu of talking about his campaign through the Alliance because it is more important. So why would those who claim to respect him continue to hash out this unsubstantiated media trash in direct antithesis to his own words? And why is it that Obama supporters seem so gung ho about disenfranchising voters and spewing hate for all of their talk of unity? In his own words as well, Mr. Gore stated there were still five months to go to this and that he has nothing to do with it. So again, why are people continuing to disresepct his own words by posting this crap? And why if Obama is so far ahead would you even give a damn if Clinton is still in this or not? I wish the media would stop using Al Gore's name to get readership, although I won't hold my breath on that. It is no wonder he does not allow the press in to his presentations. I can't blame him one bit. But of course, we can always depend on someone on this site to spoon out the crap over the substance and see it reach the frontpage.

[Jennicut]

179. Why is that as soon as anyone won't back Hillary up they are major suckage to Hill supporters?

Really, Carter is a very good man. Perhaps too honest and nice for the job of the presidency. And Gore, the man who stood up to Bush when other voices were quiet and had to deal with an electio nbeing stolen from him by the Rethugs is devoting his whole life to the climate change cause despite all the hatred from the right wing. These men are good Democrats and great men in general and I greatly admire them both. What has happened to some of these Hillary supporters? Is it win at all costs? Bill Richardson is suddenly the enemy now? I feel the same about anyone putting down superdelegates who are Hillary backers, none of them are bad people. Everyone has a right to chose who they want to back and Carter and Gore, as the elder statesmen of this party (which Bill Clinton gave up because his wife is in this primary) have every right to look at who they feel is the stronger candidate and start talking to Hillary about if she is hurting the party or not with her attacks on the presumed front runner, Obama. I have an ultimate goal as a voter and American, to see the right wing rule come to an end and that means the imperial presidency needs to end. We need a Dem in the white house as any Dem is better than McBush.

[Zambero]

189. Carter was better than any recent GOP president

I'm surprised to see so many Dems buying into the GOP mantra that "Carter was a bum" (and therefore Reagan is a "saint" for having defeating him). How about bringing the budget into balance toward the end of his term? Camp David? Amnesty for Vietnam War objectors? Brokering the release of the hostages? (although Reagan took credit since it didn't happen until Reagan's inauguration. Carter is a decent individual, unlike the amoral band of liars and crooks who own the GOP, to include some DINO's that are not worthy of being called Democrats. I would consider his advice any day of the year.

[Hamlette]

191. yeah? The two of them and what army?

She won't listen to them. She thinks she is the only hope for a November win. That shes' the one who can save the party by destroying Obama. She's not going anywhere no matter what anyone says.

I do think Bill could talk her down but no one else and maybe not even him.

[bilgewaterbill]

192. Carter was on Face The Nation. This article is wrong.

[yurbud]

197. kick kiCK KICK!

[Phred42]

198. "for the Good of the Democrats"...? My Ass!

She needs to stand down for the good of the Country and the Future of Democracy!

[Algorem]

210. she's destroying the very universe i tell you

[usregimechange]

202. So, has any other source been able to verify this?

[iamthebandfanman]

213. thanks for this thread

it shows the raw venom that clinton supporters spout when they get angry.

good job.



all of you are so rediculous. seriously.
you all act like 7 year olds.

ur a (blank)! no u are! no u r! no u r! no u r !
AHHHH!!!


they both suck compared to what any liberal would want...

but ive had to take obamas side recently with the craziness theyve made his latest comments out to be.

and hillary clinton talking about elitest just tickles my pickles so much. cant help but laugh at that notion...but hey , takes one to know one right ?

[zonkers]

221. The hits on this thread. wow. outstanding.

[Peace Patriot]

234. I don't think we're bringing a smart enough analysis to this Scotsman article.

I see a lot of back and forth between Obama and Clinton supporters, here, and some skepticism about the truth of the article, but I don't see anyone asking the question: Why would the Scotsman print this rumor? This question is especially relevant since the same paper was responsible for Obama losing one of his best campaign workers, Samantha Power (in publicizing her PRIVATE "monster" remark about Hillary). What could their motive be in printing such poorly attributed speculation--by "a source close to Carter" (that Carter and Gore are "in discussions") and by completely anonymous "insiders" ("insiders say" that it's not if but when), and then, later, "a source said" (that a big Obama win in PA will trigger this intervention--well, duh, no intervention will be needed if Obama wins big in PA!). The article is made of TISSUE PAPER.

So why print this bullshit? At the end of the article, there is a rather hostile description of Obama re the "elitism" controversy: "The (Obama) comments, posted on the Huffington Post political website, set off a storm of criticism and threatened to highlight an Obama Achilles' heel – the image that the Harvard-trained lawyer is arrogant, aloof and carries himself with an air of superiority."

The writer thus virtually endorses this Clinton campaign issue, saying that it IS Obama's "Achille's Heel." I would say that the article is hostile to Obama, and is, by publishing this highly speculative, unattributed rumor (especially since it directly contradicts Gore's public statements), is trying to PREVENT any such intervention. This is gross interference in a U.S. election. It's not just expressing an opinion, it is...I would almost call it sabotage. The printing of Samantha Power's private remark certainly was. This rumor has the same quality.

What is the effect of printing this anonymous info? If there IS a plan by Carter/Gore to intervene, it might well cause them to shy away from it--even if they think it's the wisest course--for fear that it will be misinterpreted by the public, or cause Clinton to dig her heels in deeper, even if that is not good for the party or the country. It also makes private action by these leaders nearly impossible. And if there is little or nothing to the rumor (if these anonymous sources are exaggerating, or lying, for their own reasons), then it is very divisive. It greatly exacerabes what is already something of a breach (between Carter/Gore and Clinton). It does no good whatsoever. If you were Clinton, hearing of this, what would you think? (You'd be very pissed, I'd guess.) And if you were Obama, you might also be offended--that party elders don't think you can gain the nomination without their backdoor assistance. It's rather insulting all around. I cannot think of a good motive for the anonymous pushers, or the Scotsman (in printing it), and I can't imagine that it helps Carter/Gore if the plan is true (what would motivate them to leak it? the leak is not helpful).

In reality, backdoor moves like this happen all the time in politics--especially in U.S. politics, because so much is at stake. That's just reality. So it's not that I disbelieve it. It could be true. It might even be a good thing. I tend to think that it would be (--although I'm not sure). My first thought was that Jimmy Carter, through the Carter Center, has been involved in improving democracy in other countries, and it makes sense that he would see the incredible participation levels that Obama has inspired in this primary race as a great positive for the U.S. And I wholly agree with him. I think Obama's SUPPORTERS are the key to restoring our democracy. Gore also needs an inspired, activated, positive-minded citizenry to reach his goals on the global warming issue. So the rumor has at least that much substance (not a lot)--that it fits with who they are. But what I think of the rumor is not my point. My point is WHY is it being published?

I feel like a game is being played on us. And, as I said, above, there may well be an agenda here to harm Obama, not help him, by publishing this rumor--and/or to cause further divisiveness. I don't know the Scotsman well enough to understand their agenda, but they are just another billionaire corporate new gig, from what I can tell. And big corporations have their own profit agendas that grossly color their reporting of "news"--or, in this case, RUMOR.

[flaminbats]

240. the self-destructive nature of egotism..

if Clinton concedes, Obama may still put her on the ticket. IMO an Obama/Clinton ticket would make it difficult for McCain to win the votes of nonpartisan women, while dissolving tensions within our party.

If Clinton remains in the race, Obama putting her on the ticket would only seem like an act of desperation. if Obama loses, the tensions between Obama and Clinton voters will remain four years from now. If Obama wins in November without Clinton on the ticket, only a miracle would give Clinton another shot at winning the nomination. An Obama victory in 2008 is a golden opportunity not just for Hillary, but for every Democrat in the country. But egotism will only destroy the hopes and dreams of those who have the most to gain from such a rare opportunity.