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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 11:45 AM
Original message
Honorably discharged vet ordered back to Iraq despite disability
Source: buffalo news

James Raymond lost the hearing in his left ear while fighting in Afghanistan. The former U.S. Army specialist later suffered a knee injury that required him to be flown back home for surgery.

In September 2004, he was given an honorable discharge and the Department of Veterans Affairs determined that he was 10 percent disabled, enabling him to receive $120 a month for the rest of his life.

So it was much to his surprise Thursday when Raymond — now a University at Buffalo student — got a call from his stepfather that he was being deployed again — to Iraq.

“I thought it was a joke, and then I was shocked,” said Raymond, 26, who is from Irondequoit, a suburb of Rochester.

...

That was not the case. Raymond is expected to report for training May 18 at Fort Benning, Ga., where he would undergo a medical and mental evaluation. Five weeks later, if he is determined to be fit to return to duty, he will be deployed to Fort Dix, N.J., where he would join up with a Reserve unit there. In September, the unit is expected to be sent to Iraq.

Read more: http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/story/324426.html



a must read!
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. If he signed with a reserve commitment, he's fucked.
"What good are honors from people like that?" Senior Captain Alexei Vostrikov, CO, Soviet Submarine K-19
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Ian_rd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. This is politically easier than a draft
Send our wounded back into the frying pan, withhold their benefits, block their pay raises, but verbally praise them as heroes and accuse liberals of hating them.
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. the movie "stop loss" came out last month - I read it did pretty well -
though war related movies in general haven't been that successful in recent years...
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Winterblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. He volunteered so what is his bitch?
When you sing up it is for six years even though your active duty is usually only three years you have reserve duty for another three. The Honorable Discharge is only from Active duty and not the Service I believe. I can not feel one iota of pity for him because he volunteered for it and signed a contract committing himself for six years...If he has been listed as disabled though it does raise the eyebrows a bit...
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. It is EIGHT years enlistment period NOT Six
Congress changed it sometime in the 1980s if my memory is correct, but the law has been clear, enlistments are for EIGHT year periods, even if you only enlist to serve Two years.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Agreed and that's why you always look at the fine print
Cheney, Limpmann, Big willie Clinton and Bush all ignored the call of their country and dodged the draft in the Big Muddy War
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
27. The "fine print" changed before their eyes in 01/04
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-01-05-army-troops_x.htm">Army expanding 'stop loss' order to keep soldiers from leaving

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/01/army_stop-loss_program_forces_50000_into_extended_duty_/">Army Stop-Loss Program Forces 50,000 into Extended Duty

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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #5
28. Wrong...Bush changed it in 2004... it's called 'CONSCRIPTION"...
:grr:
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puerco-bellies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. As a veteran I find your post revolting
He has been discharged with disabilities, a bad knee and no hearing in one ear. Both can be fatal to him or his team members in a combat situation. Are you sure your logged in to the right site?
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greiner3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. "Right site?"
:rofl:
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. I'm sure the logging on was as intended -- aimed to hit where it would be the most hurtful.
Next, the complaint that those who were killed in action are derelict in that they are not available for their full 8-year commitments.
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Ian_rd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Well, I do believe the "eyebrow raising" aspect is the point of the story, hence the headline.
:eyes:
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. This is gist of the story: Disabled vet being sent back into an active war zone.
I don't think that that is what he signed up for. He's a liability to himself and his fellow soldiers if he can't hear out of one ear. And let's hope he doesn't have to run on that knee.

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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. No. The honorable discharge is awarded after all duty commitments have been completed.
I ETS'd from active duty in 1993, but I didn't get my honorable discharge until 1994, when my reserve commitment ended. If he received an actual honorable discharge, his commitment has been completed, as far as the law is concerned.
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Winterblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. If that is the case then they shouldn't be able to call him back
As far as his injuries go, he should be able to serve in some capacity other than Combat. It has been so long for me I just don't remember the order of things. He fulfilled his contractual obligations if he did indeed receive an Honorable Discharge from the service and not just "active Duty". I don't believe he will have to report unless the draft has been reauthorised..
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. And without a DD-214 (Discharge) the law presumes you are a deserter.
That concept has been part of the law since Valley Forge (When von Steuben introduced it into the US enlistment contract). In simple terms if you do NOT have a DD-214 (Your Discharge papers) the law puts the burden on you to show you have been discharge, No DD-214, anyone can arrest you for desertion, even if its is decades later.

The worse case of this involved a Mexican-American who had served in the US Army in WWI. After he was wounded and shipped back to the states he went through further treatment. Finally the Doctor told him he was "discharged". Being a person with limited education he assumed it meant discharge from the Army NOT just the Hospital, so he went home. Worked as a laborer for the next 50 or so years. In his old age he started to feel the affects of age and his fellow workers told him to apply for a military pension since he did serve in the Army. Thus he applies, the army checked his record and promptly arrested him for desertion. The 40-50 years in between did not matter, he was guilty of Desertion. He had left the Armed forces without his Discharge papers. Subsequent the Army realized the problem (And he had a very good record while in the Service AND his record showed he had been discharged from the Hospital, thus supporting his story) and gave him his "Improved Pension" (The name for the payment low income people received if disabled and can no longer work, but had served in the Military). My point was the delay did not matter, he was arrested for NOT having a DD-214 even through he had last served in the Army almost 50 years before.

Another "Horror" story is more recent, I read about it in the 1990s. Someone enlisted under a false name and Social Security Number to get a bonus (The Army was big into Bonuses during the 1990s). The Army tracked down the person whose Social Security Number was the one used. He was arrested and held for two weeks till the record was produced that clearly showed that the man arrested had NOT enlisted. HE was released, but the law remains the same, unless you show you were discharged (your DD-214) anyone can arrest you for desertion, all the Army has to show is you enlisted, the burden to show you were discharged is up to the discharged soldier.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Then desertion is often the only just, the only honorable, course.
Reasonable leaders would realize that it is not smart to teach large numbers of citizens to fight and kill, and then to treat them as the Bushistas have the US military.
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Winterblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #19
35. I received my DD-214 upon ETS
I received my Discharge a couple of years later after my "inactive reserve" was over.. I was both a US and an RA and received an Honorable Discharge when I made the switch as well.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. It may only raise the eyebrows a bit if one is JUST PLAIN BLIND!
Those who see soldiers as no more than cannon fodder figure that it doesn't matter if they are sent back into combat after being maimed and disabled. Anyone else can see this for the attrocity that it is.
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
30. "When you 'sing' up it is for six years even though..." ~ You're an idiot!
:silly:

No one's 'singing', trust me. :grr:
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
33. "I cannot feel one iota of pity"
Edited on Thu Apr-17-08 04:46 AM by WildEyedLiberal
Wow, don't wear yourself out with all that compassion. Jesus fucking Christ.

I think the key point of the story is that he was wounded and determined to have a disability. But I guess sending wounded veterans back into combat merely "raises your eyebrows."
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. But, but there is no 'stop-loss' and they ALL volunteer!!
They just love to go and kill, kill, kill!!

:sarcasm:

This is digusting! :grr:

:kick: & Recommended

for those that keep denying that there is any 'back door draft or
'stop-loss' going on and that spew it's an "all volunteer" military! :grr:
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. No, no, no you are all wrong
It's the 'romance' of multiple tours. The disabilities just add to the romance.

:nuke:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. What hole did you crawl out of?
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NM Independent Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
14. I feel bad for the guy and all, but...
You have to be one incredibly stupid SOB to not know what you're getting into when you sign up for the military in this country.

They OWN you for 8 years, and there are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. They rule your life and trump all decision making power. It's a reality that they don't even candy coat very much.

Hopefully they can find a place for him where his hearing won't get him or someone else killed.
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enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Read post 12, please.
Unless they've changed something big time (which is entirely possible), the fact that he was discharged should have ended his commitment. I served with a similar situation to poster #12 (in the 1980s). My discharge came with the end of my commitment, not the end of my active duty service.

It used to be that officers had a post-discharge "commitment" for 10 years - they could be called back after they had completed their obligation. Have they changed that to include enlisted and NCOs?
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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
15. Loss of hearing and a fucked knee...
.. gets you 10%? Only 10%? Cheap bastards!

All you posters who say "Fuck him! He shouldn't have been so stupid as to sign up." .... Review your life... have you at any time asked yourself

"What was I thinking????

Remember that marriage? That job? That promise? That car?

Go easy on the poor asshole. He did what seemed to him a reasonable - even honorable - thing to do. He paid Big Time for that decision, and now they want to fuck him further.

He's a victim, not a monster or an idiot.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
18. They announced a local soldiers death las week in Iraq...
poor kid was on his fifth tour and dead at 25. Can't wait for his family to get a call up notice.
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tpsbmam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
23. Men & women in even worse shape are being sent back.....
if you recall this article from Salon (2007).

<snips>

http://www.salon.com/news/2007/03/11/fort_benning/print.html

As the military scrambles to pour more soldiers into Iraq, a unit of the Army's 3rd Infantry Division at Fort Benning, Ga., is deploying troops with serious injuries and other medical problems, including GIs who doctors have said are medically unfit for battle. Some are too injured to wear their body armor, according to medical records.

..........

Eight soldiers who were at the Feb. 15 meeting say they were summoned to the troop medical clinic at 6:30 in the morning and lined up to meet with division surgeon Lt. Col. George Appenzeller, who had arrived from Fort Stewart, Ga., and Capt. Aaron K. Starbuck, brigade surgeon at Fort Benning. The soldiers described having a cursory discussion of their profiles, with no physical exam or extensive review of medical files. They say Appenzeller and Starbuck seemed focused on downplaying their physical problems. "This guy was changing people's profiles left and right," said a captain who injured his back during his last tour in Iraq and was ordered to Iraq after the Feb. 15 review.

........

The injured soldiers interviewed by Salon, however, expressed considerable worry about going to Iraq with physical deficits because it could endanger them or their fellow soldiers. Some were injured on previous combat tours. Some of their ills are painful conditions from training accidents or, among relatively older troops, degenerative problems like back injuries or blown-out knees. Some of the soldiers have been in the Army for decades.

.......

And while Grigsby, the brigade commander, says he is under no pressure to find troops, it is hard to imagine there is not some desperation behind the decision to deploy some of the sick soldiers. Master Sgt. Jenkins, 42, has a degenerative spine problem and a long scar down the back of his neck where three of his vertebrae were fused during surgery. He takes a cornucopia of potent pain pills. His medical records say he is "at significantly increased risk of re-injury during deployment where he will be wearing Kevlar, body armor and traveling through rough terrain." Late last year, those medical records show, a doctor recommended that Jenkins be referred to an Army board that handles retirements when injuries are permanent and severe.

A copy of Jenkins' profile written after that Feb. 15 meeting and signed by Capt. Starbuck, the brigade surgeon, shows a healthier soldier than the profile of Jenkins written by another doctor just late last year, though Jenkins says his condition is unchanged. Other soldiers' documents show the same pattern.

One female soldier with psychiatric issues and a spine problem has been in the Army for nearly 20 years. "My is deteriorating," she said over dinner at a restaurant near Fort Benning. "My spine is separating. I can't carry gear." Her medical records include the note "unable to deploy overseas." Her status was also reviewed on Feb. 15. And she has been ordered to Iraq this week.

The captain interviewed by Salon also requested anonymity because he fears retribution. He suffered a back injury during a previous deployment to Iraq as an infantry platoon leader. A Humvee accident "corkscrewed my spine," he explained. Like the female soldier, he is unable to wear his protective gear, and like her he too was ordered to Iraq after his meeting with the division surgeon and brigade surgeon on Feb. 15. He is still at Fort Benning and is fighting the decision to send him to Baghdad. "It is a numbers issue with this whole troop surge," he claimed. "They are just trying to get those numbers."

Another soldier contacted Salon by telephone last week expressed considerable anxiety, in a frightened tone, about deploying to Iraq in her current condition. (She also wanted to remain anonymous, fearing retribution.) An incident during training several years ago injured her back, forcing doctors to remove part of her fractured coccyx. She suffers from degenerative disk disease and has two ruptured disks and a bulging disk in her back. While she said she loves the Army and would like to deploy after back surgery, her current injuries would limit her ability to wear her full protective gear. She deployed to Iraq last week, the day after calling Salon.

Her husband, who has served three combat tours in the infantry in Afghanistan and Iraq, said he is worried sick because his wife's protective vest alone exceeds the maximum amount she is allowed to lift. "I have been over there three times. I know what it is like," he told me during lunch at a restaurant here......


His wife's physical profile was among those reevaluated on Feb. 15. A copy of her profile from late last year showed her health problems were so severe they "prevent deployment" and recommended she be medically retired from the Army. Her profile at that time showed she was unable to wear a protective mask and chemical defense equipment, and had limitations on doing pushups, walking, biking and swimming. It said she can only carry 15 pounds.

..........

Smith is trained by the Army to be a truck driver. But since he is in constant danger of falling asleep, military doctors have listed "No driving of military vehicles" on his physical profile.......

Smith needs to sleep with a CPAP (continuous positive airway pressure) machine pumping air into his mouth and nose. "Otherwise," he says, "I could die." ......

_______________________

This doesn't even list the men & women with head injuries and/or PTSD who are being sent back.....among the many other medical & mental health problems that are being ignored.


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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
26. Rugh ro.
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SleeplessinSoCal Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
29. Is it time to impeach at least Cheney for saying "they volunteered"?
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. Yes! Those that were 'stop-lossed' were NOT volunteers!" ` They were LIED TO!
Thanks for asking that, SleeplessinSoCal ! :grr:

Please keep driving that point home.
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tuckessee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
32. Coming soon - stomach battalions.
Scraping to bottom of barrel, eh, Uncle Sam?

Criminals, foreigners, drop-outs, & now broken retreads. America's Hometown Heroes ain't what they used to be.

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gear_head Donating Member (107 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 05:21 AM
Response to Original message
34. he was in the 'ready reserve', or not? n/t
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