Paying Cash, That Will Cost Extra

[Stuart G]

Source: MSNBC, Red Tape

Paying cash? That'll cost extra
Posted: Friday, April 25 at 05:00 am CT by Bob Sullivan

http://redtape.msnbc.com/2008/04/paying-cash-at.html#po...

Rhonda Payne went to an AT&T Wireless store in Calhoun, Ga., recently to pay her phone bill in cash. She'd been hit by ID theft and was forced to close her checking account, so she was worried she wouldn’t be able to mail a check on time. But when she arrived at the store, she was in for a surprise.

Paying in person, she was told, costs extra -- $2 extra.

Payne objected to the "administrative charge" that was added to her bill but got no sympathy. Instead, she said, she was told she should consider herself lucky because the fee was about to go up to $5.

"I was told that it was a courtesy to take cash,” she said. “I said, ‘Are you kidding me?'”

It’s no joke. Beginning earlier this year, AT&T Wireless began to charge customers who pay their bills in their stores.

"It is a way of saving money ... it helps us keep our costs lower," said AT&T spokesman Mark Siegel. "We want our associates to spend their time helping customers as they are thinking about their wireless plans or looking at phones."


Read more: http://redtape.msnbc.com/2008/04/paying-cash-at.html#po...

---

Aren't you glad that ATT can screw you one more way?

[thunder rising]

1. Its a poor ppl tax. I was out of work a few years back and had to pay cash.

[rpannier]

2. Reminds me of a Garfield cartoon from the early 90's

Jon decides he'll only pay cash for everything and when he goes to the mall to buy something (I forgot what ot was now), the clerk asks if he's going to use a check or credit card. He says he's paying by cash.
The clerk has no idea what cash is,so she calls security

Jon is harassed by the police because he has no credit cards.

That's where we're at folks.

F*CK ATT!!!!!

[DiverDave]

3. Cash, you see is all NARCO profits!

So, by paying with plastic or a check, Big Brother has a line on every penney you earn/spend.


Can anyone say Fascist State?, sure you can! (with apologies to Mr. Rogers)

[Wabbajack_]

23. Fascist State

[reggie the dog]

35. Sometimes our cash IS narco profits

and we are smart enough to not use a prefered customer card when we pay cash, because that would create an electronic trail.....Keep in mind that even with its cheap price compared to cocaine, marijuana is the source of most narco profits.

[The Wizard]

4. Boycott AT&T

and all other criminal enterprises that extort our money using every excuse under the Sun. The age of Big Brother, aided and abetted by the Bush cartel, has taken another step in crushing individual freedom.
They only want to know how and where we spend every dollar. It's fascism, American style. We are now free from thinking, acting, and doing all things relevant to democracy.
It's amazing what can be accomplished with rigged elections and most of the country shrugging it shoulders treating it as business as usual. We're getting what we deserve for being complacent in the face of real criminals.
"Wave goodbye to America, and say hello to the world."
(Tim Buckley)

[tblue37]

13. I already boycott AT&T because they screwed me over royally back in 2001.

I even dumped Southwestern Bell when they switched to AT&T for long distance.

[rucognizant]

They suck!

WHen MCI went down & Quest was staggering having funded the telecom set-up at the S.L.City Olympics.......I chose AT&T as long dist. carrier, early in Dec. I went to my daughter's for Xmas, and came home to a turned off long distance service, ( my Dr's office is a "long distance" call!)
After spending $300. - $500. per MONTH with AT&T through the '70's & 80's ( when I had a business to run; "good ole days") THey had arbitrarily decided to grant me ONLY $50.00 worth of long distance calls a month based on my INCOME! ( ANY WORK I CAN GRAB now is based on MAKING LONG DISTANCE CALLS!; not many people in a fishing village of 1,200, buy artwork!)
I now have WOrking Assets 'Credo" which has been good.
I also just bought a tracfone and WOULD NOT use AT&T, as the carrier. For this reason I will NOT EVER get an IPOD! ( Unless Apple changes it to another phone CO.)
Wish you all, whom ever you may be, would stop falling for "shiney objects",. until; we refuse to buy them we will not effect change!

[reggie the dog]

36. wow

We pay 29 euro per month for internet, phone, and cable tv. The phone is free to use to call any ground line in france as well as over 40 countries including the USA. Do you have deals like that in the states?

[Occulus]

53. Yes.

Mine costs $170/mo. For that I get unlimited calling anywhere in the States, 5Mb down/256K up internet, and cable with HBO, Showtime, and Cinemax (ugh).

In other words, same as you, but for more than five times the price (and I bet my internet connection is slower than yours).

[reggie the dog]

123. Holy shit!!!!!

And I complaing about the service jumping for a minute at a time.

[sir pball]

129. What cable do you get though?

I'm not saying it's a fair deal (I pay about 145 a month for cable + internet), but over here the expensive package comes with a n awful lot of channels...I get something like 235, but that does include the HD versions of the regular channels, and the Spanish networks and movie channels (no problem with them, but I don't have much use for them). And even with all those, it's usually a case of more of nothing good to watch. I'd cut back to basic tier but I need the digital package to get the HD and that's the channels I like to watch (History, Discovery, NatGeo, FoodTV, HD Theater, &c)...and I didn't spend an obscene amount of money on a large HDTV to watch SD programming all the time ;)

[pokercat999]

88. sure if you got $200

[burrowowl]

120. They all charge you extra for cash

or if you want to pay at one of their stores with debit/credit card or check.

[JCMach1]

86. Worst customer service ever... I was double charged by them and the local phone

company back in the late 90's... After, HOURS on the phone over SEVERAL days and even LIES told to me by supervisors I gave up and paid the bastards...

No AT@T for me EVER.

[judasdisney]

126. If you haven't alreaady boycotted AT&T for warrantless wiretapping

and fascist-friendly complicity with the overthrow of the 4th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, then whose team are you on?

[tanyev]

5. We're now paying fees for the privilege of paying our bills.

What a country.

[iamjoy]

15. In A Service Economy

we live in a so called service economy - the US sure as hell doesn't manufacture or produce much anymore.

In a service economy, we are paying for Customer Service.

Unbelievable

[fasttense]

6. Just another monopoly

doing whatever it can to screw its customers and get rich.

[RantinRavin]

7. monopoly ?

There is only one cell phone company ?

[Freddie Stubbs]

20. What about Verizon?

:shrug:

[Freddie Stubbs]

21. What about Alltel?

:shrug:

[Freddie Stubbs]

22. What about MetroPCS?

:shrug:

[Freddie Stubbs]

26. What about Sprint Nextel?

:shrug:

[NMDemDist2]

29. we tried to pay our Sprint bill at their store here (who's an "Authorized Dealer" )

and was told we'd have to buy a 'reloadable' card for $5 to use to pay the bill.

:banghead:

[silverlib]

8. And now that money under my mattress is worth

even less and will someday be extinct.

[Changenow]

9. All debts public and private?

This is just another poor tax.

[Trillo]

68. Another lie,

printed on every Federal Reserve note. If it was the truth, there'd be no additional charges for using it.

Our owners changed the game again. For them, it doesn't matter that they lied: where's the penalty? Just another toothless tiger.

[Chan790]

110. From the US Treasury:

Question: I thought that United States currency was legal tender for all debts. Some businesses or governmental agencies say that they will only accept checks, money orders or credit cards as payment, and others will only accept currency notes in denominations of $20 or smaller. Isn't this illegal?

Answer: The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.

I guess you've got to sucker them into saying you owe them money, so that you can claim they're a creditor.

[nilram]

124. But that's exactly it!

That bit was exactly what I was thinking of -- typically phone bills, mobile or otherwise, are paid after service has been rendered. So in this case, AT&T is offering credit for that month of usage, and anyone paying that kind of bill should be able to pay in cash. They may argue that a customer *can* pay in cash, they just have to pay extra for the privilege, but I wonder what a court would say?

[PATRICK]

10. Kiosks, mall stores and cell phones

in general seem to be operating on the same principles as tax collectors franchised by the Roman Empire. deceit, gouging, overcharging, no more nice guy to the consumer maybe is what has led to that industry being one of the most frequent complaints at the BBB.

I'd say this was yet another small example on the nickel and diming scale. The corporate customer relations when called go oh my and tsk tsk and do nothing about their front line minions. total surprise like the banana execs who find their local goons have been murdering labor unionists. I wager this is symptomatic of a wide range of current business practices. The franchises hide behind corporate and vice versa yet it is all a deliberate system.

Profits are squeezed not from quality or service but from any chicanery imaginable.

Best thing to do is shift to consumer friendly markets and forgo the "conveniences" seemingly offered by the big guys. You can do more to end globalization by not drinking the universal monopoly of Chinese apple juice or trusting all the canned goods funneled miraculously through Thailand than all the complaints and and news articles in the world. You can find cell phones served by Working Assets, for example. Of course, squeezing decent pols past crooked voting systems will immeasurably help clout as well.

And support your Postal Service by asking for ad mail from all this companies you never intend to do business with again to bleed back that $2.

[mainegreen]

11. The could require payment in dingos if they wanted.

And charge interest in lentils.

:shrug:

[nilram]

125. give me that child!

<troll voice>
I have given you cell phone service, and now you must give me that child!
Give it me! Give it!
</troll voice>

[myrna minx]

12. Yet another way to milk poor people of their hard earned money. n/t

[DRoseDARs]

14. Given that US currency is legal tender in the US, how is this legal? nt

[Elspeth]

16. That's why it should be fought in court.

...

[mbperrin]

28. It's not legal. They are discounting US currency, which must be

honored at face by law.

But will the bastards in the current Justice and Treasury departments give a damn?

BTW, Sprint tried the same thing on me, and by the time I had finished explaining how they were breaking federal law by discounting US currency, the manager of the branch decided to just waive the fee for me just to get rid of me.

$5 for 2 minutes work - good for me.

[Tesha]

37. It's probably legal.

They'll probably assess the same "convenience fee" if you
pay in person with a cheque or a credit card so they'll
claim it isn't the "cash" aspect of the transaction that
triggers the fee.

Tesha

[lildreamer316]

94. Could I ask you a favor?

Would you mind explaining it to me in detail/pointing me in the right direction to find out this info so I can use this same argument? I like to be well researched.
Thanks...sorry to bother.

[mbperrin]

105. Sure. It's the Federal Reserve policy.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqcur.htm#2

Is U.S. currency legal tender for all debts?

According to the "Legal Tender Statute" (section 5103 of title 31 of the U.S. Code), "United States coins and currency (including Federal Reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues." This means that all U.S. money, as identified above, when tendered to a creditor legally satisfies a debt to the extent of the amount (face value) tendered.

Years and years ago, I worked as a vault teller for a large local bank (when there was still such a thing), and our head cashier, a grad of SMU, was a real stickler for the law. Hope this helps!

[lildreamer316]

108. Thank you!!

It does help. Gonna put that on my notes to carry with.

[eppur_se_muova]

113. Thanks for the info! A car rental company refused to accept cash AT ALL ...

and of course didn't bother to tell me this until I had arrived at the airport, needing a ride to my destination. Of course, they wouldn't accept personal checks either. I thought it was outrageous, but the "legal tender" didn't occur to me at the time.

[AdHocSolver]

116. Car rental agencies have demanded credit cards for the past forty years.

When a car cost around $2000, and you could rent for as little as $10.95 per day, you could give them a $100 dollar deposit and drive away. With cars costing $20,000 or more, they want your credit card as "collateral" in case you damage the car or keep it longer than you told them you would. In effect, they hold your credit card "hostage" so you can't rip them off. This is sound business practice, and they have every right to do this.

[eppur_se_muova]

131. I understand that, and expected to give them my card for that.

But I wanted to keep my balance down by paying cash for the basic service up front. They still had the card for contingency charges, but refused to take cash for any part of it, even though those costs were already known and billed to me before I got the car.

The reason given was that they no longer kept cash on hand because they had had robberies. The same argument could apply to any business, even grocery stores.

[sir pball]

130. There's a loophole for that

The way I understand it (but IANAL), cash has to be accepted for debts, where a service or product has been provided to you for which you then owe, but for a pay-before situation a merchant can take or deny pretty much any form of payment they want. If the car company gave you the car and then billed you for it at the destination, they would be legally bound to accept cash since you then are in debt to them...but since it's pay first, they're free to tell you "Oh so sorry!"

Of course, this means that ATT would be obliged to take the cash since you are in debt to them - that may be why they claim it's a "pay in person" fee instead of a "pay in cash" fee..

[eppur_se_muova]

132. "Pay in Person" fee -- like "teller fee" or "window fee".

PNC Bank (Pittsburgh) started charging customers $2.00 for each time they visited a teller's window. They already had hefty ATM fees. Maybe they should just wrap it all up into one "customer fee" and say "that's what you pay for the privilige of lending us your money".

[AdHocSolver]

115. If more people complained, made a stink, and withheld their business from these companies, whenever

possible, these companies would be less likely to gouge. Too many people cave in too easily and let them get away with it.

Your giving them a difficult time (always be polite, and "reasonable" when you do it, don't "threaten", merely state your position and possible actions that you could take) will often get them to back down. Too many complaints to a company about an employee, even a manager, can adversely affect that manager's performance review. Offering to write a letter of "complaint" to the president or CEO of a company about these incidents can have a wonderful effect on a "difficult" employee. Subtlety is important here.

Never yell or call anyone or the company names. Keep paper and pen handy. Ask for names, write down date and time of the incident as well as follow ups, ask for store number, and say you plan on e-mailing or snail mailing a letter of complaint to an executive. The company may not do anything about changing company "policy", but the employees that you talk to (politely) will often decide to "give you a break" rather than get a customer complaint in their employee file.

I have used this technique several times over the years. It takes a lot of self-control. They will lie to you, try to intimidate you, give you the run-around. Maintain your "cool", and keep after them. You can wear them down on an individual level. If you convince them early on that you will be persistent, and may take action that could adversely affect their careers, they will often "give you a break".

By rights, we shouldn't have to jump through hoops to get dealt with fairly. If the public were less like sheeple and demanded better treatment, we would get it. Too many people cave in to this intimidation, and that is why it is so prevalent.

[reggie the dog]

40. I remember when I was a kid, back in the eighties

gas stations charged you LESS for using cash and MORE for using credit cards.

[formercia]

17. Posted this a while back:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3253766&mesg_id=3254002

Posted by formercia in Latest Breaking News
Thu Apr 03rd 2008, 11:06 AM
The profiteers like plastic because it offers them profit at the expense of the buyer and seller and provides valuable information on market trends because the sales data can be mined.
The 'Goverment' likes plastic because it allows the tracing of money and developing profiles of individuals based on their buying habits. The computer rules all.

Just as paper currency replaced Gold and Silver, plastic is replacing paper currency as the blessed medium of exchange.

Going from bad money to worse money.

Wall Street is going from instruments that have real value to paper which has a value based on the whimsy of the Market in a given moment in time.

[MilesColtrane]

18. The day is coming-and soon-when you will be charged a fee for paying by check...

...through the mail.

These corporations want their money NOW.

I pay by mailed checks because it's easier to control the balance in my bank account that way. Yet already, half of the checks I mail are instantly converted to electronic payments and deducted from my account.

All the while checks that are deposited take 2 to 4 days to be credited.

Just another example of the Golden Rule-them that has the gold, make the rules.

[unapatriciated]

34. It can take months to get your money back when they process it twice.

I have found that more and more of my checks have been converted to electronic payments. Visa processed a payment twice and created a mess that took me months to straighten out.

[AdHocSolver]

117. I used to work in a bank's data processing division. That is why I demand a paper trail.

I recommend to all people who do electronic banking to always scrutinize all of your transactions very carefully.

Banks, as well as all other businesses, do make mistakes and screw up their files. If you don't catch mistakes, the business is very unlikely to tell you.

[ananda]

19. What I'm glad about is..

.. that I no longer have service with ATT.

[Demeter]

24. At&T Is Now Begging People To Switch to Some Other Service?

or do without entirely? Have they really thought this through?

I have a funny story about my local fishwrap. The Gannett people bought it, and have started replacing management.

One of the first decisions was to eliminate the TV Guide section from news stand copies, on the theory that nobody is reading it, based on their polling. Well, they were soon informed otherwise by the people who actually buy it. Another "innovation" scrapped.

How could they think that subscribers and those paying the same price at the news stand (if not more) wouldn't want the identical product?

What DO they teach in B schools these days?

[liberal N proud]

25. Unbelievable - They are forcing credit down our throats

Then when we have credit problems, it is our own damn fault because we didn't have to take that credit card.


One of the primary reasons they want everyone to use Credit Cards or electronic payment is the ability for the government and business to track where we are, what we purchase and how much we are spending.
Orwell would be amazed.

[Occulus]

55. That's one of my own primary arguments against those who say "but you signed the agreement"

What CHOICE do we have to sign AN agreement, somewhere, or not? With so many services (and goods, apparently) being forced over to credit card only/fee for using cash, honestly, where is the damn choice?

And why the bloody hell are businesspeople not required to take any amount of cash as a condition of doing business, period? Why don't laws governing business demand acceptance of cash, without strings?

[Lorien]

56. Yep, and soon RFID chips in EVERYTHING will make their corporate

control complete.

[liberal N proud]

81. That is covered as well

Sort of.
Cell phones, GPS devices in cars and even rfid in pets help them keep tabs on us.

[AdHocSolver]

121. The purpose of RFID chips is to make it easier to spy on the public.

Everything you buy that contains an RFID chip in it will be stored in a database together with your RealID, credit card numbers, cell phone numbers, non-cash purchases, etc.

Wherever you travel, whatever activity you engage in, whomever you are with will be instantly available to corporations and government agencies anywhere on the planet. You would have as much privacy living in a glass house.

All the "benefits" that they tell you that the technology will give YOU is pure bovine manure.

[NavyDavy]

27. the airline i work for used to not charge a fee to make reservations

over the phone, because we are a whole different type of airline, that lasted for the 1st 4 yrs i have been here but in the last year it went frm nothing to 5 dollars, then 10, now 15 per ticket. so i know how people feel about it, because they tell me everyday, especially the person who scraped up enough money to fly and see their dying relative and then call to pay for the ticket and the agent before they talked to me never told then about the 15 dollar fee.....and i have a very hurt and sad person on the line that can't even borrow 15 more dollars from friends because they already borrowed all the money they could....by the way thisz just happened to me yesterday....i was angry when we started charging the fees, but i am just a worker bee....

[madmom]

30. I pay everthing I can in cash, if I have to mail something I get a money order (free

from my bank cuz I'm over 50) and send that. I don't know how that works for them but it works fine for me.

[OwnedByFerrets]

31. Very glad I dumped them

because of the spying crap. Now I have one more reason to be happy about the decision.

[Maeve]

32. Stuart G--a note on article length

Please be aware that DU copyright rules require that excerpts of copyrighted material be limited to four paragraphs. Thank you.

[Stuart G]

71. I am sorry. this will not happen again...

[defendandprotect]

33. On line . . . if you want to mail a check rather than use a credit card . . .

they will want to charge you extra ... !!!

I say that we stop using these cards now and return to checks --- !!!

[L0oniX]

38. Fuck ATT ...I use Vonage for $15 a month -500 minutes ...beat that!

[stlsaxman]

51. I can beat that- I have Skype! $65 a year for my phone number and

.02 /minute prepaid for outgoing calls to any non-skype account on the planet. Skype users talk to each other for free. $10 usually lasts about a month.

i also have a Skype WiFi phone that automatically logs on to any available server and lets me make and receive calls...

check out www.skype.com

[L0oniX]

75. LOL ...I use to skype years ago ...wow skype wifi ...didn't know about that. K00L. n/t

[stlsaxman]

85. yeah check 'em out...

bonus to all that is calls are fully encrypted point-to-point...

the only drawback to skype is it is NOT usable as an emergency phone.

[and-justice-for-all]

97. I use Skype for my Deutsch Lessons...

I love it and it does not cost me a damn dime either. Even when I call Deutschland, it does not cost me anything and the video is great too..Skype Rocks

[NBachers]

39. Best Buy penalizes for cash payments

I was standing in line at Best Buy and intending to pay for something with cash. I had to wait for a "cash-friendly" cashier to open up while others paying with check or credit card were taken ahead of me.

[Tempest]

45. Must be just that one store

I shop at Best Buy in different cities because I travel a lot and I mostly pay cash.

None of the stores I've been to have such thing as a "cash-friendly" cashier and I've never been asked to wait for one.

[uncle ray]

59. it's corporate.

i've encountered it at my local best buy too.

i guess we have to remember that in this day and age it costs retailers more to have sales associates who have the basic math skills to actually count money. :eyes:

[Stuart G]

74. Also..this really isn't ATT, it is the old SBC, (changed name after buyout)

SBC, is not the old Ma Bell. They are nasty people. When they took over Ameritech, in the eighties, service went to hell and many other things happened. Repair people were fired, and their whole attitude changed. ATT was bought out a couple of years ago, by SBC..TEXAS..nasty people indeed.........

[Q3JR4]

93. ....

What's that? You want me to wait for a cash only cashier?

<to manager> You know I have enough cash to purchase X, Y, Z and I was planning to ask about a laptop, but I think I'll go somewhere else because apparently my cash money isn't good enough.

<walks out leaving a pile of stuff in the middle of the store, never goes back>

*Shrugs* I've done it before.

[pattmarty]

41. It's just another way for the companies to increase profits........

........by cutting costs (the largest cost is employees/labor) and make you and I pay for it. This is just another small thing in the totally un-regulated capitalism that we now have in this country. Why do you think every company you do business with wants to get their sure payment out of your checking/savings account? I absolutely refuse to give ANYONE access to my bank accounts. I know, I know, some of you will say the fucking government already has access to my whole fucking life anyway, but it's a minor last holdout for me.

[Runcible Spoon]

42. what a load of bullshit. the companies should be happy their employees have something to do.

my sister worked in one of those stores and 99% of the time they stood around and did nothing. People got much much better deals shopping for the phones online anyway. The fascist manager wouldn't even let them sit down or read. They just...stood....there.....for HOURS...doing nothing.

[metrodorus]

43. "This bill is legal tender for all debts public and private"

That's what it says on my dollar bill. How do they get out of that?

[nichomachus]

44. This crap will go on until the people take to the streets and stop it

We've reached the point where the only change in the country is going to come from the bottom. Do not look for Congress or the White House to help us.

The people need to stop this -- or it will continue.

[boilinmad]

46. Hey AT&T....

....make sure you save money, on the backs of your customers, so you can give it all to your CEO. Unfettered capitalism. You gotta love it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. I guess I am in the minority but I have no problem with this

She could have gone to her bank and gotten a cashiers check or money order. If she has an account there, those are usually free.

I went through something similar a few years ago and my bank was wonderful about helping me keep my bills paid. I didn't have to go pay cash in person anywhere.

I also have no problem with the fee. As the AT&T spokesman says, the service reps in the stores are there to sell phones and plans, not process payments. I also have AT&T (I switched to them so I could get an iphone) and they are the best of all the cell carriers I have used in making it easy to pay your bill. Sprint was a pain. You can't pay it in the store (those machines are always broken) and you are on hold forever when you try to pay it on the phone. I just went to Radio Shack and paid my Sprint bill and paid the extra $5 there.

[Sam Ervin jret]

52. They are there for service and sales. Taking payments is part of service.

I'm glad you like your new toy, but that should not blind you to the fact that any store that sells an item should collect the fees for that item.

If it's so convenient for them to collect the money in other ways, why have they always charged us "administrative fees" in our bills?

Shouldn't "administrative costs" be part of their overhead and cost? When I read my phone, Internet bill it looks like pages of rationalization for ridiculous costs.

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. I am billed by email

That's one thing I love about AT&T. No multipage bill in the mail.

I would agree with you somewhat about administrative fees. But I think they use that money to process OUR payments. If not, then yes, they are unnecessary fees.

[Gormy Cuss]

62. "if she has an account..." There's the rub.

As the article mentioned there are many people, mostly very low income, who have no bank accounts. For them there would be no way to avoid paying money for the privilege of paying the bill.

Remember also that what a corporate spokesperson will state is the reason for the policy is PR. The real motivation may be something else entirely. In the case of this policy I would guess that the primary reason for the policy is that it reduces the costs to the company of handling cash in the retail locations or it makes it too burdensome for low profit customers to use their services. Spinning it as the reps are there to sell phones sounds good but I've noticed that most of the time the staff in these stores are twiddling their thumbs, not selling.

[proud2BlibKansan]

65. Article says identity theft forced her to close her checking account

Been there, done that (as I stated). The bank will open a new account for her and give her free counter checks to use for paying her bills. I walked out of my bank with a brand new debit card too.

I cannot imagine how anyone survives without a bank account, especially the poor.

The clerks at my AT&T store are almost always busy. I can't imagine them standing around doing nothing. Same deal at the Sprint stores I used to go to. In fact, I have to take a number and wait almost every time I go in. Like I said, they are definitely there to sell phones and service plans.

[Gormy Cuss]

67. Many do live without bank accounts and have for years.

My comment was more about the large implication of "pay-to-pay," not just this one woman's situation. In this woman's case the fact that she didn't have a replacement checking account may reflect just a choice to go without or may have been influenced by how HER bank handled the ID theft issue. If she wasn't a valued customer at her bank then they may not have been as eager as your bank was.

As to the traffic level of wireless stores, YMMV but I've rarely seen busy locations except on Saturdays or near Christmas. Perhaps it's because there are too many around here.

[proud2BlibKansan]

73. She can go to a 7-ll and buy a money order then

Aren't they a lot less than $2?

[Gormy Cuss]

76. Sure, and she can go to the post office to buy one too. All it takes is time and money.

If she has the time and money to deal with it that way she probably would just pay at the cell store for the convenience just as you have.

Me, I'd tell them it was a ridiculous charge and that I would cancel my account as soon as I could without incurring costs. I always offer to walk but that's because I know that either the company wants my business and will accommodate me or I can find one that will. That's the power of not being broke.

[Stuart G]

77. The credit card people what you to think you are saving your time and money...

when it is really their time and money that is being saved, not ours. In the end, it helps them...assholes....

[proud2BlibKansan]

79. I don't have credit card

I use my debit card.

[proud2BlibKansan]

78. If she doesn't have the time or the money,

how can she afford a cell phone?

Sorry but in the grand scheme of things, this is a pretty minor problem.

[Gormy Cuss]

82. I realize that we see it differently.

How can she afford a cell phone? Maybe she signed up before she lost her job and now it's cheaper to keep pay for it than pay the termination fee and buy a different one. Who knows?

Again the issue isn't about this one woman's anecdote. It's about how such fees will proliferate if consumers accept them and how the fees will affect those of lowest means disproportionately.

[crimsonblue]

104. The fact remains that US currency should be able to pay ANY debt...

Our currency is not the Amex, visa, or mastercard. It is the DOLLAR. A dollar should be able to purchase anything without their being a fee added. "Hmm, you are paying your bill? That'll be 24.50 for the bill and $5 for the fee." WTF? In what alternate universe do you live in where this makes sense?

[AdHocSolver]

118. How much time and gas money should she spend to pay a bill for which she had cash?

I have worked for many businesses over the years. It used to be a company would bend over backwards to keep a customer happy. Now they only look for ways to rip off their customers.

The cost of doing business, including taking cash to cover a payment of a purchase, is ALREADY factored in to the PRICE of the PRODUCT. These surcharges are just gouging the customer.

Excusing that kind of treatment by businesses only fuels their avarice and increases their practices of cheating their customers.

[poppysgal]

48. The buck stops here

This outrageous and wrong. They can't track cash-no paper trail, therefore it's not home security friendly. And of course there is the fact that it is just one more way to milk the masses for more money. One more thing when we had AT&T at our small family owned business it was a nightmare to receive any assistance, because you had to talk to someone in India. At what point will we all revert to a "Network" type of mentality and begin to yell "we are mad as h-ll and we aren't going to take it anymore.:puke:

[high density]

49. That seems fine to me

I think the fee is more to discourage this practice than to get rich off of it. It's obviously going to take much more manpower to give one-on-one service payment processing over the more standard payment methods. I don't see why the rest of AT&T's customers that mail in a check or pay online should subsidize those that can't open a bank account because they've been blacklisted. They can go to the post office to buy a money order and a stamp and they'll be ahead of the game.

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. Bingo

In the grand scheme of things, this is such a minor issue anyway.

[Catherine Vincent]

50. Which bank has that commercial that frowns on paying cash?

Everything is colorful and the line for the cashier is moving along great, then a customer wants to pay cash...everything stops and switches to black and white. They pull out a credit or check card and everything gets back to normal.

What hogwash.

[Ilsa]

61. Yeah, and the guy paying cash is supposed to be embarrassed

that he isn't conforming like everyone else. What a mind-job.

[Gormy Cuss]

64. It's VISA.

Hogwash it is.

[Solon]

114. The thing that's crazy is that I work retail(gas station) and credit cards...

and debit cards take LONGER than paying in cash. That's because they have to "dial home" to verify the person has the funds/line of credit for the purchase before the money can be deducted from the account. Even crazier, but understandable for gas station, but when paying at the pump, gas pumps have a limit(30-over 50 dollars) that they allow you to pump, and they freeze that total amount for an amount of time, usually dependent on your bank or credit company. This is to prevent someone with a dollar on their line of credit from pumping 20 bucks into their tank, and incurring penalties, etc.

[Ichingcarpenter]

54. The Feds Can Track Checks and Credit Card Transactions-Not Cash

Just saying........

[Ilsa]

60. Yes, this is about profiling and converting to a cashless society.

It wreaks havoc on the poor who don't make enough money to keep bank accounts. This to outrageous.

[Ichingcarpenter]

63. Was ATT ever got spying on US Citizens? Yes

Have they been in collusion with the Bush Administration on warrant less wiretaps? Yes

Just saying.......

[damntexdem]

66. Cash is 'legal tender,' which must be acceptable for paying bills.

A charge for accepting cash certainly should be illegal, if it isn't already.

[kineneb]

69. solution- pay bills in postal money orders

costs less than $2.00 to get a money order at the local PO (~ $1.00), and once the "to" and "from" are filled out, much safer than carrying cash. I speak from personal experience.

[cosmicone]

70. Oh come on guys!

If it takes 5 minutes for the store rep to process the payment, at an average employee cost of $40/hour (including benefits, payroll taxes and workers' comp), it costs $3.33 just in the store, not including overhead and opportunity cost of a salesperson not selling during that time. Then someone has to take the cash from the store to a bank, process a deposit and later reconcile it. $2.00 seems reasonable to me. If not charged, all the other customers who don't pay with cash will be subsidizing people who pay with cash.

The woman could have gone to a 7-11 and bought a money order for $0.50 to $1.00 and mailed it in for $0.41.

We can rake AT&T over the coals for other things but this charge seems legit to me.

[proud2BlibKansan]

72. I agree

Let's pick our battles and leave this one out.

[superconnected]

90. WTF? You're saying end untracable buying?

We're also ending the national currency as cash being accepted in america meaning we'll be subject to any fees banks want just using our debit cards at that point.

[Karenina]

109. Hallo fellow frog! Stay here if you choose to

but methinks it's getting a bit too warm and I'm jumping out!

[MadHound]

80. Bullshit

Checks and credit card cards are just as expensive. CC companies charge business fees to business' that accept CC's, whether it's over the phone, in person or online. If it is online, then there is the cost overhead for machinery and maintenence, oh and don't forget those rising energy prices.

Likewise checks have check processing fees, overhead for taking them down to the bank, etc.

There is no method of accepting payment that is without cost, and those costs are roughly equal. That is the notion of overhead, OK. No, this is simply one more brick in the wall of forcing Americans into a cashless society, so that everything you do, everything you purchase, everywhere you go is recorded somewhere in some unaccountable corporate data base. You may be happy with those sorts of chains, but myself and many, many others aren't.

[lildreamer316]

95. ....an if she MAILS it, it could be LATE, costing her more money!

What if the identity theft she experienced caused all of her money to be gone? (ya THINK??!!) THEN, she would have had to MAKE more money to pay said bill in a shortened amount of time, probably. So she rushes to the payment store, trying to make sure she gets her payment made on time.

How do I know? I don't. But you don't either. There are always things that can go wrong.
Accepting payments in cash just allows for all these things.

[mbperrin]

107. Someone has to take those checks and money orders to the bank

as well. And there's that stuffy old Federal Reserve. Is U.S. currency legal tender for all debts?

According to the "Legal Tender Statute" (section 5103 of title 31 of the U.S. Code), "United States coins and currency (including Federal Reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues." This means that all U.S. money, as identified above, when tendered to a creditor legally satisfies a debt to the extent of the amount (face value) tendered.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqcur.htm#2


Course, do not expect corporations to be made to follow the law under the current administration. This currency tax is NOT inconsiderable. $5 on a $40 bill is a 12-1/2% surcharge. How about putting that on your next auto purchase? Even a nice cheap $10,000 auto comes with a $1250 cash tax at that same rate.

I personally refuse to pay extra, and I demand identification from those wanting it so that I can file my complaint online with the Comptroller of the Currency. Never have to pay it at all to Sprint here locally now.

I haven't banked in years and not about to start now. Bastards want money, they will provide service.

[Runcible Spoon]

111. LOLLLLL benefits for a cellphone sales person what a joke

my sister worked for Sprint as a salesperson and she and everyone else who enquired about benefits found their shifts cut down to about 39 or less hours a week. Those jobs SUCK and are usually held by college kids anyway.

[AdHocSolver]

119. The cost of doing business is already factored in to the price of the product. This surcharge is...

price gouging. I would factor in the surcharge as an added cost and find a store that sold the same product without the surcharge, and save money.

Five minutes to take cash and give change? That is ridiculous. And ridiculous also is your average employee cost of $40/hour, even including benefits and taxes, for a cashier.

Using cash is the fastest way to pay for an item. What these businesses are really doing is avoiding keeping cash on hand. They want to earn interest on the cash. Keeping cash in the store as a convenience to its customers precludes putting it into an instrument to earn interest. So they are gouging the customers with these outrageous fees to increase their profits.

What an intelligent customer would do is to shop at a different store. The guy who refused to pay the surcharge and walked out did exactly the correct action. Too many people lack the spine to not allow themselves to be taken advantage of. That is why the stores get away with cheating their customers.

[kayakjohnny]

83. I bought big at&t yellow page ads this year and didnt pay just to rclaim some $

[cosmicone]

96. I can't condone this

If you don't like AT&T, take your business elsewhere but sign a contract for ads which the company published in good faith and then not pay? That is unethical at best in my opinion. How would you like it if one of your customers refused to pay you after you worked hard just because he/she doesn't like that you are writing on DU?

Welcome to DU by the way!

[lovuian]

84. Money is untraceable they want phone records traceable

this is BS ATT is the one who played with giving our phone records to the government

Terrible

[dysfunctional press]

87. how would the form of payment affect phone records?

:shrug:

[Thickasabrick]

99. Pay as you go phones - if you pay with cash - you can basically

use a fake name.

[dysfunctional press]

101. which would be fraud, since you still have an agreement with the carrier.

and the call records would still be available.

[Thickasabrick]

106. Um yeah, but because I've given a fake name and address - how

are they going to find me?

[superconnected]

89. I'm pretty sure this is illegal and businesses operating in the US have

to accept cash. Its our national currency.

[shrike]

91. "The boys upstairs wanna see how you'll pay for what you used to get for free"

Never thought I'd quote a Tom Petty song, but we live in interesting times.

[melm00se]

92. i heard this in a store (Sprint)

the 1st time last night, ever curious I asked why?

Their response made a whole lot of sense: Even though Sprint is on the door, they aren't a corporate owned store. So for them to forward a customer's payment to Sprint the same day for same day crediting, they have to use a 3rd party service which costs them $$$ to transmit the money (I didn't ask how much, I thought would be rude and, frankly none of my business) and that they charge $5 for the payment.

If the customer says no, they tell the customer where to nearest corporate owned store is and send them on their merry way.

I have no problem with this. If, OTOH, this was a corporate owned store and they were charging the same fee I'd have a problem with that.

[Thickasabrick]

98. AT&T is unofficially the government's spy. You can't track what

people are doing if they pay cash. I think it's a way to make sure people pay with credit so their transactions can easily be tracked. I think the explanation they are giving to people is bogus.

[sir pball]

100. Is it a fee for paying in CASH or paying in PERSON?

While I don't agree with it, from what I can tell it's the latter (I know most people who pay in store are paying cash, but still), which I can kind of understand; it does cost Sprint money to pay an employee to take the time to handle the payment as opposed to having a computer doing it for free. I think Verizon has self-pay kiosks in stores, dunno if they take cash though.

[AdHocSolver]

122. All costs are already factored in to the price of the product. These surcharges are a ripoff. n/t

[sir pball]

128. Like I said, I don't agree with it and it's a ripoff for sure

But if it's not just limited to cash proper, all I can bring myself to do is grumble about it, same as I would with any other stupid nickel-and-dime-you-to-death fees. I suppose for me, it comes down to if you want to pay in cash is there any other way to do it without a fee, and that includes the 50¢ for a money order or the eight bucks for a prepaid Visa?

I checked yesterday while I was in town, my Verizon store does self-pay kiosks that take cash, if ATT doesn't do this and in fact forces you to pay in person with cash, THEN I'd have a bigger-than-average problem with it. Anybody know?

ed speeling

[crimsonblue]

102. At&T is in CLEAR violation of the law.

On EVERY bill, it states "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private". Can you say, class action lawsuit? Why would ATT prefer credit cards, especially since VISA, MC, Discover or whomever takes 3-5%? Cash, on the other hand, goes straight to the register, and then? You guessed it, the bank. God forbid a company lets people pay their bill. Man, I cannot wait till we get Wimax here..

[superconnected]

103. Exactly!

[eilen]

127. Merchants accepting Visa/MC also are charged a fee.

That is why I don't understand the cash handling fee. It seems the company would actually keep more of its money if paid in cash rather than credit card.

Try buying a car on your Visa. I had a friend do exactly that so she could get more air miles to visit overseas family. The auto dealers were in a fine conniption about it but she said she would walk if they would not accept it. They accepted it, she ended up with a Saturn Vue and a round trip ticket to Paris. She had the money to pay for the car, she just mailed that check into Citibank (or whoever the bank was with the Visa).

But then, there are banks with teller fees. So I guess it is not too much of a surprise.

[Runcible Spoon]

112. All greedy corporations want you to pay by credit card/direct bank acount online

it's the cheapest route for them since they can just get rid of ANY human in the loop. They also have a direct line to your financial information and can therefore sicc the debt collection companies on you more easily should you commit the mortal sin of Late Payment. They charge up to $15 now for taking payments over the phone. It's such a disgusting racket, this whole country has no soul now that it has been gutted by rampant dirty capitalism.