NYPD Officers Aquitted In "Groom Shooting" In NYC (link found!)

[matcom]

Source: MSNBC

Breaking

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24305660/

[Wabbajack_]

1. Murdering pigs

[matcom]

2. MSNBC Banner:

BREAKING NEWS: All three police officers in NYC Sean Bell case found not guilty of all charges

going to be an ugly day in NYC :(

[Squatch]

95. A dead suspect can't testify against you.

What a load of BULLSHIT. I'm truly and absolutely baffled by this.

[sasquatch]

3. Rigged jury, street justice will probably happen tonight in New York

:(

[matcom]

5. no jury. this was 1 judge's decision

not good

[sasquatch]

6. Ooo...a judge that wanted the NYPD police union support more than justice

That's why they didn't take it in front of a jury because they knew they would be found guilty.

[BklnDem75]

22. No surprise...

They know judges are part of that blue wall.

[raystorm7]

55. Exactly...Also, Racist black cops do exist.

Just like black on black crime happens, there are racist cops who are racist against their own race. It all comes full circle.

[sabbat hunter]

23. I doubt it

unlike other cities, we generally do not riot.

To even mention "street justice" happening is disgusting.

Remember in this country people are innocent until proven guilty. The prosecution did a horrible job in proving their case.

[sasquatch]

30. I wouldn't be surprised if it did though

I hope it doesn't, I really do.

[NikolaC]

33. Oh Really?

So 50 bullets and three unarmed men - one of whom is dead - is no case?

[sabbat hunter]

47. you have to show

which cops did what when. Did the identify themselves? etc. Criminal cases are never black and white, if they were innocent men would always go free and the guilty would always go to jail.

[Renew Deal]

68. Obviously you know nothing about the case.

[sasquatch]

70. I now know it was a judge trial, hence they rigged it so they would be aquitted

[sabbat hunter]

79. how exactly

did they rig it?

[zanne]

86. The accused cops claimed that a jury would be tainted by the publicity.

And they requested that a judge decide the case. I don't think of this as a fair tial because that would involve a jury of their peers.

[sabbat hunter]

87. under US law

you are allowed to waive your right to a jury trial. Now whether someone should be allowed to do that, to be should be open for debate.

[zanne]

92. No kidding.

Trial by judge removes the "people" part of the trial. They must have known he'd be sympathetic. Judges have been known to be corrupt.

[NoGOPZone]

93. However, in many states the prosecutor and the bench must

consent to the waiver. NY is one of the few states where the defendant can do it unilaterally, except in the case of first degree murder.

[sabbat hunter]

127. actually

I live in NYC and know a lot about this case.

I know that Sean Bell and his companions were all hanging out in a hotbed of criminal activity, that they all had prior arrests for illegal weapons possession.

I also know that chances are the 3 officers that were acquitted will face civilian charges, and will be in all likelihood thrown off the force, or forced to resign.

I also know that the officer that fired 31 shots should have been found guilty of reckless endangerment.

[sabbat hunter]

126. Thank goodness

you were wrong about "Street justice" happening in NYC.

[rubberducky]

4. I have a really, really BAD feeling about this.

[BklnDem75]

7. Pure bullshit...

I'm a pretty calm guy, usually, but my blood is really boiling over this.

[stranger81]

8. F***ing disgusting.

The NYPD should just declare open season on the city's non-white citizens and be done with it, since that's clearly how they operate and will evidently be sanctioned by the courts as well.

How could the cop who stopped to RELOAD his semiauto to help pump 50 rounds into an unarmed man have possibly gotten away with this?

These three have really earned the name "pig." And the judge, too.

[Yavin4]

28. In Order To Make The Rich White People of NYC Feel Safe

The police have to kill a random Black man every now and again.

[sabbat hunter]

37. yeah because

black cops kill black civilians all the time (two of the cops are black)

[Raineyb]

57. Once that uniform is on the cop's skin color doesn't matter

That blue uniform has the effect of turning every brown and black person into a potential criminal. Unfortunately, undercover cops tend to find this out the hard way like when they end up on the wrong end of their colleagues' guns.

Regards

[NikolaC]

60. True

I remember the case in 1995 of Desmond Robinson an African American transit officer in New York in plain clothes who, even after identifying himself, was shot by five times by fellow officer Peter Del-Debbio, who was white. Guiliani then went to the man's hospital room for a photo op and then sided with Del-Debbio.

[jjr5]

76. Don't be stupid.

Do you have any idea what just happened?? A man was killed unjustly by men that were supposed to protect him and yet they targeted him unfairly. AND NOBODY IN THE JUSTICE SYSTEM CARES --- What the hell are you talking about "black cops can't kill black civilians . . .." Killing is killing and killing is wrong - Stupid.

[sabbat hunter]

113. where did I say

that black cops cant kill black civilians?


Go back and actually read what I read in context of it being a response to a previous post.



Yes what the cops did was wrong and reckless, but lets also remember that where Sean Bell and his friends were hanging out was a hotbed of criminal activity.

Additionally one of his companions, Joseph Guzman, was a violent past criminal who had spent time in jail for armed robbery and shooting his victim. Also Sean Bell and all his companions all had been arrested in the past for illegal gun possession.

Finally according to the testimony of the police they identified themselves, told everyone to freeze and show their hands. none of them complied, and in fact backed the car up into the cop car.

In 2005 there was a total of 9 incidents in which cops killed suspects, two had just fired at a police officer, three were getting ready to fire, two had tried to stab an officer, and two were physically attacking an officer.


In 2006 there was 4 times in which cops were actually fired upon but did not return fire.


So no this was not a case of racist cops or a racist system, but officers being reckless.


This leads creedence to the fact that the cops involved in this case were reckless and not a symbol of the entire police department.

[jjr5]

119. Why are you here?

I'm sure that any of those incidents would require the police officer to fire 50 into the suspect in question right? Of that it would be necessary to stop - and reload - once the "officer" knew the suspect was dead and the others were critically wounded. The justice system is marred by people who reason in the way you just have. Find the concept of justice and legitimacy and then MAYBE come talk to me. Until then, I'm putting YOU on ignore. bb.

[sabbat hunter]

125. yeah because

someone who is here less than 6 months and has under 200 posts has a lot of credibility. Go ahead and ignore me and not see this reply.

The officers in the sean bell case were reckless, I have said this all along, especially the one that emptied his gun and reloaded.

But NYPD in general are not reckless and do an excellent job.

Ah but you went "wah wah I am just going to shut my ears and eyes when someone doesn't agree with me" so you won't even see this post.

[sabbat hunter]

128. not all 50 shots

went in to sean bell. a lot of shots missed Sean Bell and his companions completely and hit their car.



Fact: the club that Sean bell and his companions were at is a hot bed of criminal activity.
Fact: Sean bell and all of his companions had prior arrests for weapons possessions
Fact: the car that Sean Bell and his companions were in was crashed into a police van.
Fact: A witness said that the police identified themselves
Fact: Officer Michael Oliver fired 31 shots (two full magazines plus one in the chamber) he clearly acted in a reckless manner and should have been found guilty of that charge.

[bossy22]

9. hmmm

"Isnora responded by trailing Bell, Guzman and Trent Benefield to Bell's car. He insisted that he ordered the men to halt and that he and other officers began shooting only after Bell bumped him with his car and slammed into an unmarked police van while trying to flee."

Last time i checked the laws i distinctly remember them saying that a police officer is not allowed to fire at a moving vehicle, even if it is being used against them as a weapon

i may be wrong

[nichomachus]

14. Laws? Please -- laws are so last century.

Laws are only for little people -- not for the fascists.

[sabbat hunter]

20. link

do you have a link to NYS/NYC laws that say a police officer is not allowed to fire at a moving vehicle?

[watercolors]

10. There is no justice in this country!

nt

[flashl]

11. Sad. nt

[Catchawave]

12. MSNBC newsbunnies are trying to start a riot, geesh....

SHOCKING VERDICT! SHOT DOWN IN COLD BLOOD ON HIS WEDDING DAY!

OMG! (Sorry for the caps, emphasis for the shrieking faux outrage.)

[jayfish]

13. Well,...

when you have exhausted all peaceful means; what's left?

Jay

[pattmarty]

15. What else is new? This type of shit has been going on for years........

.....and is now actually "accepted" in some corners of society. Just part of "living in the USA".:sarcasm:

[RaRa]

16. My initial reaction was outrage too

and still is. But, a judge decided this and pointed to the prosecution as not proving their case. My brother is a criminal defense attorney and I know from him how some really bad prosecutors blow their cases. I also know of really bad judges....just saying that listening to the idiots on tv isn't likely to be illuminating as to what really went on in the courtroom.

[jayfish]

74. Well Gosh.

You don't think the police department being joined at the hip to the District Attorney's office has anything to do with it? ...do ya?

Jay

[KamaAina]

97. Maybe not... but NY Daily News columnist Juan Gonzalez does

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2008/04/25/2008-04-25_sean_bell_verdict_sticks_to_script.html

Anyone who spent time in the Sean Bell trial knows the prosecutors were only going through the motions. The absymal (sic) New York Knicks had a better game plan this season, and far more desire, than the prosecutors of Detectives Michael Oliver, Gescard Isnora and Marc Cooper.

You couldn't help feeling they mailed it in, and Supreme Court Judge Arthur Cooperman only stamped it.

:grr:

[alarimer]

106. Sounds like they deliberately threw the case.

They are all part of the same mob: prosecutors, judges and cops.

Sickening.

[Yavin4]

17. Ever Since Guiliani, The NYPD Has Been Empowered To Kill African American Males At Will

This simple fact is seen as the key to the massive urban renewal of NYC by the White power elite establishment.

[sabbat hunter]

21. yeah thats the ticket

that's why the shootings of blacks happens every day in NYC by cops.....oh wait it doesn't.


These cops were probably guilty of reckless endangerment, but the prosecution presented a bad case. They basically threw everything at the wall and said "let's see what will stick"

[Yavin4]

25. They Don't Have To Shoot African Americans Every Day

To make the point. Just every once in a while. See Amadou Diallo. If they shot Black people every day, then it would be too obvious.

[sabbat hunter]

29. so they just need to

kill a black man every 10 years then?

[NikolaC]

38. So It's Okay To Be Blithe About The Killings Then?

Just wondering why it is okay to excuse the killings of unarmed people.

[Yavin4]

104. I'm Not Being Blithe About It

It's just the ugly truth here in NYC.

[NikolaC]

120. I was resonding to post #29

not yours. I happen to be in agreement with you.

[sabbat hunter]

35. you realize

that two of the cops in the case are black right?

[wellst0nev0ter]

40. And They'll Probably Get Medals Too (n/t)

[sabbat hunter]

54. doubtful

chances are they will still either be kicked off the force or quietly resign.

[NikolaC]

41. Like That Changes Anything?

A police officer kills or wounds an unarmed person and it is excused? Why?

[sabbat hunter]

45. some here

are trying to make it seem as if the case is racially motivated. It isn't.

It is about police procedures, if these cops followed them and if they were reckless.

[Occulus]

50. And ONE person on this thread seems to have a dog in the hunt.

Gee... I wonder who that might be?

:think:

:hi:

[Raineyb]

58. Of course it is

If Bell and his companions were three white guys do you really think their car would have been shot up 50 times with one officer reloading his gun so he can empty it again? Not bloody likely.

But hey it's not likely to happen to you so no harm no foul right?

Regards

[Yavin4]

If It's Not Racially Motivated, Then Where Are The White People That Get Killed Accidentally?

There are several cases of White people being abusive or hostile or evasive to the police, yet somehow they don't get mowed down by the NYPD.

[Yavin4]

103. What Does That Matter?

They're still cops. Slave traders would outsource the actual capture of African slaves to other Africans.

[NoGOPZone]

62. One of the cops (Cooper) was charged with

reckless endangerment and only reckless endangerment. Ignoring what this does to your claim that the prosecution 'basically threw everything at the wall', we can conclude from your own words that this case was a miscarriage of justice, as there were acquitals on all charges when you've stated that the cops were 'probably guilty of reckless endangerment'.

[BigDaddy44]

44. You realize of course 2 of the 3 cops were African Americans

[ellacott]

65. It doesn't matter

This is still a system controlled by the power elite. There were black field supervisors in slavery who were worse than the slave master.

Some of the cops involved in the Rodney King incident were also black. One of the officers who stuck a plunger up the rectum of Abner Louima was married to a black woman.

[sabbat hunter]

81. That is the racist sentiment

to say that black cops are automatically like the old slaves bowing and scraping to "massa". Who cares if one of the officers that stuck the plunger up the rectum of louima was married to a black woman. Anyone who contemplates that sort of action is a sociopath. it goes beyond race.

Is a prisoner who rapes another prisoner automatically gay? No, they are sociopathic

[ellacott]

94. I'm saying that it is the institution that is racist

Not those working for the instituition, like the slave foremans. I did not anything about old slaves bowing and scraping to "massa". Slave foremans had a totally different role than "old slaves".

The fact that 2 of the cops were black changes nothing.

[readmoreoften]

117. I'm in total agreement. When I was in court in Manhattan the racism was exceptional.

I was there because I was arrested for protesting. Almost every person in there was African-American or Latino and all the charges were utterly ridiculous. I remember a girl being in there for "5th degree receiving stolen property." What's that? Buying something off ebay? Possession of drug paraphenalia. Public intoxication. Half of white Manhattan is drunk on a Saturday night.

Not that I was shocked, but I was disgusted. Excellent point about cops in uniform. My arresting officer at the protest (he was Cuban-American) said that he was quitting the force and moving to Miami to be a singer. He said and I quote "I'm sick of puttin' people in jail for just livin'..."

[Renew Deal]

69. That's horseshit.

Another clueless non NYer.

[Raineyb]

123. Not horseshit

The NYPD has never been held responsible for any person of color they've killed. Kill an unarmed teenager. No punishment. Shoot someone for having a candy bar? No punishment. Use an illegal choke hold? No punishment.

The powers that be are not blind. They see what's going on. They just don't give a damn. Why would they? It's only people of color that's being affected.

I'm not blind either. And I am tired of this shit.

Regards

[Brewman_Jax]

18. Cops acquitted

no surprise there. :(

[L0oniX]

19. Riots anyone? n/t

[limit18]

101. Let the riots begin...

[SurfingAtWork]

24. A tragic contrast occured to me this morning

Yesterday Wesley Snipes was sentenced to 3 years in federal prison for failing to file tax returns (misdemeanor), and today 3 cops are cleared on all charges for killing an unarmed person.

[panAmerican]

116. black victim: no lack of loopholes to charge; white defender: no lack of excuses

These weren't even murder or manslaughter charges and the cops walked!

[RoccoR5955]

26. Welcome to the Police States of AmeriKKKa!

Where cops do not have to SEE a weapon, they merely have to THINK that someone has a weapon, and they can pump the person full of lead!

[sabbat hunter]

49. how exactly is this

AmeriKKKa? aka insinuating that this is a racial incident?

[NYDem Observer]

27. Why am I not surprised

The verdict was complete and utter bullshit! I live in NYC and I don't believe this is going to end well, people are fed up!

[ellacott]

31. And people wonder why Rev. Wright seems angry

[NikolaC]

32. Proving Once Again

That our lives mean less than nothing in the eyes of the "law", especially in New York :mad:. This verdict did not come as a surprise. The judge just ruled in lockstep with other verdicts which exonerated NYPD officers from the murders and abuses that they have committed in the past against people of color. Yet I am not supposed to be upset, there is no proof that racism still exists, we should stay in our place and NEVER deign to speak our uppity damn minds and call America on it's bullshit when we see it. Nice to know that "justice is blind", we have equal rights and our men are not instantly assumed to be criminals and possessing a weapon wherever they go. Nice to know that, as usual, it is open season on black men, regardless of whether or not they are "law abiding" citizens. :sarcasm: DAMNIT!

My heart goes out to the families of the victims and Bell's fiance.

[ellacott]

34. My heart goes out to the family also

I am so angry that I have tears in my eyes. The sad part is I'm not surprised either but it still hurts.

They shot him 50 times and stopped and reloaded their weapons and continued firing.

[sabbat hunter]

129. only one officer

emptied his weapon, reloaded and continued to fire. Sean bell also was not hit 50 times.

[sabbat hunter]

36. do you realize

that 2 of the cops that were acquitted were black right?

[NikolaC]

48. I Don't Give A Damn

This has happened a lot in the past with white officers and black. Just because the officer is of color does not necessarily mean that they were not trained to view members of their own race as criminals as well, regardless. So let's just sit there and make up excuses because two of the killers were black, that should clean the slate for this and all of the other times that people of color were shot at first and questions asked later. People who make excuses for this tactic sicken and disgust me.

[ellacott]

64. That changes nothing

This is still a system controlled by the power elite. There were black field supervisors in slavery who were worse than the slave master.

Some of the cops involved in the Rodney King incident were also black. One of the officers who stuck a plunger up the rectum of Abner Louima was married to a black woman.

[sabbat hunter]

90. so what

that makes them sociopaths


to say that black cops are automatically like the old slaves bowing and scraping to "massa". Who cares if one of the officers that stuck the plunger up the rectum of louima was married to a black woman. Anyone who contemplates that sort of action is a sociopath. it goes beyond race.

Is a prisoner who rapes another prisoner automatically gay? No, they are sociopathic

[ellacott]

105. Again

Not those working for the instituition, like the slave foremans. I did not anything about old slaves bowing and scraping to "massa". Slave foremans had a totally different role than "old slaves".

The fact that 2 of the cops were black changes nothing.

So according to your logic you can only be one or the other? You could be a sociopath and operate within the system of institutional racism. The whole system of slavery was sociopathic.

[High Plains]

112. Cops is cops. They're not black or white, they're blue.

[timtom]

39. I may be naive, but...

After reading the story, I don't get the racist motif. All I get is police brutality. Two of the cops were black.

It's about violence, but not racism.

Just my opinion.

[Zynx]

46. You're right. It's about violent cops, not racist ones.

[sabbat hunter]

91. I am glad

to see someone agrees with me.

It is about police being reckless and brutal. Race is not part of the equation here.

[Limelight]

42. 3 NYPD detectives acquitted in 50-shot killing

Source: AP

NEW YORK - Three detectives were acquitted of all charges Friday in the 50-shot killing of an unarmed groom-to-be on his wedding day, a case that put the NYPD at the center of another dispute involving allegations of excessive firepower.

Justice Arthur Cooperman delivered the verdict in a Queens courtroom packed with spectators, including victim Sean Bell's fiancee and parents, and at least 200 people gathered outside the building.

The verdict provoked an outpouring of emotions: Bell's fiancee immediately walked out of the room. His mother cried.

------------------

Bell, a 23-year-old black man, was killed in a hail of gunfire outside a seedy strip club in Queens on Nov. 25, 2006 — his wedding day — as he was leaving his bachelor party with two friends.

Officers Michael Oliver, 36, and Gescard Isnora, 29, stood trial for manslaughter while Officer Marc Cooper, 40, was charged only with reckless endangerment. Two other shooters weren't charged. Oliver squeezed off 31 shots; Isnora fired 11 rounds; and Cooper shot four times.

The officers, complaining that pretrial publicity had unfairly painted them as cold-blooded killers, opted to have the judge decide the case rather than a jury.

The judge indicated that the police officers' version of events was more credible than the victims' version. "The people have not proved beyond a reasonable doubt that each defendant was not justified" in firing, he said.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080425/ap_on_re_us/police_shooting

---

Wow.... The people didn't prover that it was unreasonable to walk outside a party of guys in the middle of the night with a gun drawn as they're getting into their car to leave, yell something muddled at them in the middle of Queens, NY and expect they'd do anything but try to dip out. After one of these cocks*ckers, empties one clip... 2 clips... and goes half way through a 3rd, COMPLETELY against NYPD regulations, his boys firing cuz the first officer fired, not because they saw an actual threat... and all this cuz the first officer THOUGHT.... F*CKING THOUGHT they were armed... and they didn't prove that what went down was bullsh*t and criminal?

Wow... that's it... I'm done. Here I am a black man in America and now I see it for what it really is. Between this, Wesley Snipes having to do time over taxes when you good and f*cking well any of his white counterparts would never have seen the inside of a jail cell over something like that (yeah, Tom Cruise needs to be in a padded room, but they would have NEVER sent his ass to jail) and now in a 55/45 - 60/40 democratic contest in the vast predominately white state like PA Hillary wins by 2/3s, 3/4's and even damn near 80%, completely lopsided considering the polls nationally (yeah, I know it was 55/45 overall but that's because the large urban areas balanced it out, look at her margin of victory of the rest of the state) I've had an epiphany.

Barack was dead wrong and Hillary was balls on accurate. Barack why diss your pastor about not seeing our progress when we've mad NONE? Hillary called it right... get past all the PC bullshit and this country doesn't wanna call some black guy it's commander and chief. It's never going to happen. Heh... so this is what America thinks of me... I'm disposable.

I'll be damned.

[slackmaster]

43. Sounds like some serious training deficiencies

:argh:

[NikolaC]

51. Oh But

Didn't you hear that two of the cops were black? That makes it okay then and has nothing to do with race :sarcasm:.

[sabbat hunter]

53. training deficiencies

is an issue here. But it does not make what happened ok.

My point in previous posts is that some here are trying to make this case a racially motivated one, when it clearly isn't. It is about cops being reckless and whether they followed procedures.

[Limelight]

56. Wasn't racially motivated?

Really? When's the last time you heard about a cop sitting a strip club in Long Island walking out after a group of white guys at a bachelor party and emptying 50 rounds into their car?

Oh, but that's cool in Queens. It is racially motivated by the NYPD. It shows the way the see the residents in boroughs that are predominately minority, which is to say black. The officers ethnicity isn't important in the least. They felt they could be that reckless in Queens or the Bronx or any other place where a bunch of brown people live.

If those guys had been white THEY WOULD STILL BE ALIVE.

[sabbat hunter]

59. 2 of the three cops

were black. They were staking out a joint that was a hot bed for criminal activity.

Queens is full of white people too yah know. In fact as of the 2000 census 44.08% of the county is White, 20.01% is black. (another 17% is asian)



So if you want to say that these cops were reckless, I will agree with you, but to say it was racially motivated is just plain wrong.

[NikolaC]

61. Okay, Using Your Words

Let's put it this way then. It was a reckless crime yes, that was racially motivated. I agree with the earlier poster who stated that had they been white, those men would not have been shot up and Bell would still be alive.

[Limelight]

63. You miss the point...

Again... this shit wouldn't have happened in Long Island. NEVER... EVER... They would never have allowed themselves to make this kind of reckless move in a PREDOMINATELY WHITE area, which Queens IS NOT.

You don't seem to be getting me. Just because the officers were black does not mean that their mindset for working in an area like Queens would not have been different from working an area like Long Island. Is there crime in white neighborhoods and boroughs? Yep. Organized and otherwise. Do cops stake out places in those areas? I'm sure they do.

So why then do you not hear about things like this happening in those areas? Because of the way the people in those areas are thought about. There are a lot of innocent people in Lower Manhattan and Long Island, you need to be careful cuz you don't want someone getting hurt. Oh, but in queens there are a ton of black people. And you know those black people, they all listen to the rap and sell the drugs and carry guns and don't use silverware and are always yelling for the motherf*cking iced tea.

Do you get it now? It's the perception of the residents in these neighborhoods that color how they are treated and how the police deal with them and yes, that includes officers of color who because Massa' slapped a badge on their chest and gave them a little bit of power can get a sense of superiority to those residents even if they share similar features.

I'll say it again. If these guys had been white they would still... be... alive.

Period.

Oh, and a quick aside... If these black officers had done this to a group of white kids... do you seriously believe they would have been acquitted?

[alcibiades_mystery]

66. Large parts of Queens are predominately white

Bayside, Whitestone, College Point, Fresh Meadows, Douglaston (OK, that last might as well be long island), Rosedale, large swaths of Glendale and Ridgewood, etc. Not to mention, uh, Howard Beach...Queens probably has the most predominately white neighborhoods in the city. How do i know? Grew up there.

Now, the neighborhood where this happened is certainly not predominately white, and I can't remember the last time cops in one of those white neighborhoods opened fire on anyone, though the guys coming stumbling out of the bars in any of the predominately white areas would be about the same speed as bell and his friends. The notion that none of this is "racially motivated" takes such a narrow view of 'racial motivation" as to be almost meaningless. For sabbat, something is only 'racially motivated' if the perpetrator says to himself "I am going to commit a racially motivated crime, right....NOW." It's a ridiculous understanding of the way race works in our culture, and sets the bar so high that nothing at all has anything to do with race anymore.

[sabbat hunter]

114. actually to me

racially motivated is if they solely fired upon Sean Bell and his companions because they were black, which I do not feel is the case here.

[alcibiades_mystery]

115. Eh

It's narrow. Race causes all sorts of effects in a society like ours that work far beyond direct intentions, and "motivation" operates at levels far deeper than conscious desire. In your kind of argument, somebody would almost have to be in the Klan in order for their actions to be influenced or "motivated" by race, which is fine for really limited legal sophisms, but not really the way race operates in our culture.

[NikolaC]

121. You Really Are

living a fantasy if you believe that race had nothing to do with it. Sad.

[sabbat hunter]

72. first off

Queens is predominately white. 45% white in fact.

This is a case about cops being reckless not race.

If these guys were white, were coming out of a known hotbed for criminal activity and then backed their car into several police officers the same thing may have happened. We do not know for sure one way or another.


What part of lower manhattan are you referring to? Soho, Greenwich village, hells kitchen, Battery park are all predominately white.

Alphabet city, predominately black and hispanic, yet you don't hear about police shootings going on there.

Harlem predominately black and hispanic, but once again you don't hear about police shootings there either.

For the most part NYC cops do a fantastic job, without having to fire their guns once in anger while on the force. They are underpaid and underappreciated.


The cops in this case were reckless and yes I think this could have happened in any area.

[Limelight]

77. Whatever

You hear and see what you want. Apparently what you want to hear and see is the same as any republican. Racism? Just a myth those damn darkies made up to get affirmative action.

Cool. You go right on believing that. Luckily there are some who see it for what it is. The mere perception, not proof, but perception, that this group of black men had a gun, which they didn't if you hadn't heard, got them killed. And the judge gave them and every other cop out there like them with those same attitudes a license to blast away.

I'm sure that the majority of NYPD officers are fine and dandy, but if I hear any more about split second decisions as if that makes this shit ok, I'm going to puke. Split second or not the job is to air on the side of caution because the job is to protect the citizenry not protect your own ass by shooting first and asking questions later. That's the f*cking job. They don't like it, tough sh*t. Find another one.

Maybe it doesn't happen all the time. I'll give you that. But when's the last time you ever heard it happening to white folks? Can you even name one? And while you're at it how about you answer my original question. If this same group of black officers had shot a group of white guys, racially motivated or otherwise, do you seriously believe they would have been acquitted?

[sabbat hunter]

82. me a republican?

that is to laugh.

Does racism exist, of course it does. Does that mean that it was racism that was behind this case? of course not.

[bean fidhleir]

73. Where did that judge get his law degree from ....Corn Flakes?

The victims didn't prove beyond reasonable doubt that the cops shouldn't have fired??? Where the hell is the presumption that people are innocent and shouldn't be shot to death??

If the reporting is accurate, that judge needs to be disbarred.

[Raineyb]

52. Fucking Typical

For as long as I can remember whenever the NYPD killed someone in the street the officers accused go to trial, ask for a Judge trial instead of a jury trial and walk away.

When a case goes to jury trial TPTB find a reason to move it out of the city and once again the police walk.

In the Anthony Baez the police killed the man with an illegal choke hold and the police walked.

I can't think of a single case where police killed a civilian in NYC where the police were actually convicted.

I wouldn't be surprised if the lesson learned by the police in the Abner Louima case was that they should make sure they kill the person they brutalize so that they can make up any story about their victim and the judge will look the other way.

After all at the end of the day the judge, prosecutor, and police are all on the "same side."

I don't know what pisses me off more. The fact that once again killer cops are allowed to go free and potentially return to their jobs where they can blow someone else away with impunity or the fact that I'm not surprised by this verdict.

:grr:

Regards

[leftynyc]

99. Here's a link to his verdict

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20080425_VERDICT3.pdf

Says the prosecution witnesses were not credible.

[Raineyb]

110. Of course he did

Question the credibility of New York's finest? Heaven forbid!

And even if the judge did find the prosecution witnesses credible it's not improbable that the he would acquit anyway.

The judge in the Baez case found that the defense case was a "den of perjury" and still let every single one of those cops walk.

There is no justice for a black man shot down by the NYPD even when they violate their own regulations.

Regards

[NikolaC]

122. Yeah Well

one is dead and the other two were shot up after they saw the faces of their attackers. How on earth could that possibly make them credible? :sarcasm:

[mickeyraul]

67. This is not justice

More than once the justice system in New York has set free those who commit crimes while being part of the NYPD. Shame on the justice system.

[sasquatch]

71. Exactly

Where are the Boondock Saints when we need them?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

75. How many here think the cops would have walked if the vic was white?

I don't.

[Limelight]

78. Me neither.

:thumbsdown:

[Breckerboy]

84. On that note...

...can anyone remember the last time cops pumped 50 rounds into an unarmed white man? I mean, does it happen and not get press, or just never happen?

[NikolaC]

83. There Are A Couple of Deluded

Earlier posters who may. They are convinced that race has nothing to do with the shooting or verdict (just a couple of "reckless" cops).

[Blue_Tires]

111. even before that

How many here think the cops would have even FIRED if the vic was white and the strip club was in long island?

[readmoreoften]

118. I don't think there'd be a victim if the victim was white...

let alone with 50 bullet holes in him.

[bbgrunt]

80. truly outrageous. There is no justice anymore.

[Squatch]

85. 50 round between 3 guys? Jeebus.

That probably means that one guy actually reloaded his firearm and continued shooting. (Assuming max 15 round magazine capacity).

[ohio2007]

88. can't shoot straight imo

I doubt the guy had 50 holes in him

[sabbat hunter]

89. 31 shots

were from one officer. Yes he did reload.

[BklnDem75]

96. Including the one in the chamber

He only stopped because he was out of bullets.

[Zynx]

108. Yep. Nothing short of disturbing.

[RebelOne]

98. These undercover cops are going to have to go deeper

undercover now because there will be retribution within the black community.

[intaglio]

100. AP Link here

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gzt5F_LdL__hNuiNlnZ4CzfSfgJQD9091R507

[eppur_se_muova]

102. {fiancee }Nicole Paultre Bell bolted from the courtroom ... "I've got to get out of here."

Acquittals in groom's shooting spark outrage

From Deborah Feyerick
CNN

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Nicole Paultre Bell bolted from the courtroom Friday as a judge acquitted three New York City detectives of all charges in the shooting death of her fiance.


caption: Nicole Paultre Bell is helped from court Friday as the judge acquits officers charged in the death of her fiance.

"I've got to get out of here," Paultre Bell said.

Justice Arthur Cooperman was announcing the verdict clearing Detectives Michael Oliver and Gescard Isnora of manslaughter, assault and reckless endangerment in the death of Sean Bell.

Detective Marc Cooper was cleared of reckless endangerment.
***
"Fifty shots is murder. I don't care what you say. That's what it is," another woman said.
***
more: http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/25/sean.bell.trial/index.html

[taught_me_patience]

107. According so some on DU

the victim is "lucky" to be black! This is sick and disgusting.

[JeanGrey]

109. Murderers. I'm disgusted but not surprised. How awful.

[ogsbee]

124. Bloomberg should fire gang leader Kelly

If Bloomberg really wanted to prevent this from happening again he'd fire Kelly. Kelly acts like a true gang leader - my gang members right or wrong, notice how his first impulse is to always smear the dead "perp." In police states the police represent power, not justice -- a gang mentality is often encouraged. Why so many bullets? If my gang brother fires, I have to also -- that way I can't be called to testify against my brother. White or black cops, too many of them are actually just members of the Blue Gang.

Incidentally, from official comments they obviously knew how the ruling would come down. I wonder how.

[SCBeeland]

130. Sick of cops getting away with murder

The man that was shot to death had no weapon. This is plain murder, a cold blooded killing.

Reminds me of a story that was on the news for all of a few days, then vanished, about a year or so ago. In Atlanta, an elderly black woman was murdered in cold blood by police who had a no-knock warrant, and they rammed down her front door and simply shot her to death. They had the wrong house, which the police later admitted to. I remember thinking to myself "Good God, you murdered this innocent woman, and all you have to say is 'we got the wrong house'?" The woman did fire and kill one of the cops, I think, but I'd have done the same thing if police rammed down my door for no reason, shooting to kill. (The police did fire first in this case, if I remember correctly.)

The police killed a man who had no weapon, and filled him with FIFTY bullets. And they walk away free men. SICKENING. And people wonder why I don't, and never will, trust a cop.

[ohio2007]

131. Sharpton vows to 'close this city' after officer acquittals ( start planting those IED's AL Sadr -)

I mean,
Al Sharpton

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080426/D909P8SG0.html

open season on law enforcement as "Operation Torch" kicks off ?



http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=14c_1209068189