Fort Riley atheist soldier speaks out on lawsuit

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

Apr 26, 3:22 AM EDT


Fort Riley atheist soldier speaks out on lawsuit

By JOHN MILBURN
Associated Press Writer

JUNCTION CITY, Kan. (AP) -- Like hundreds of young men joining the Army in recent years, Jeremy Hall professes a desire to serve his country while it fights terrorism.

But the short and soft-spoken specialist is at the center of a legal controversy. He has filed a lawsuit alleging he's been harassed and his constitutional rights have been violated because he doesn't believe in God. The suit names Defense Secretary Robert Gates.

"I'm not in it for cash," Hall said. "I want no one else to go what I went through."

Known as "the atheist guy," Hall has been called immoral, a devil worshipper and - just as severe to some soldiers - gay, none of which, he says, is true. Hall even drove fellow soldiers to church in Iraq and paused while they prayed before meals.




Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/ARMY_ATHEIST_SPEAKS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2008-04-26-03-22-07

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http://pix.epodunk.com.nyud.net:8090/locatorMaps/ks/KS_4636.gif

[Solly Mack]

1. I lived there back in 2000

and I once got a 7 page email explaining why "Jesus could help me"

I told the author of the email prior to sending the email that I objected to prayers before the FRG meetings - an organization chartered by an act of Congress and subject to the separation of church and state. You should have seen the looks I got...

I got called "witch" and "devil worshiper" as well.

And don't bother explaining to them the contradictions in their own words or how they expose their ignorance...because the world began with Jesus being born and "everyone knows there's a devil"

I was beyond thrilled to get away from that post and I can honestly say that I have never - ever - experienced anything like it before within the military. It has gotten very bad under Bush - but up until that point the right wing religious wackos didn't feel so bold.


Never had that problem off post...just on post.

There's a saying there called going the "KKK" route - not what you think. It means Kansas to Korea to Kansas. Where soldiers leave Kansas, go to Korea, and back again to Kansas. It happened so often it got its own acronym. Anyway...in Korea there's a former officer who runs a church...this is in Seoul. He's a very scary right wing religious wacko and a follower of the Boykin style.

I used to joke that the two things were connected....but I wasn't laughing.

[crimsonblue]

2. Goddamn it.. why does my state continue to be the leader in retardedness?

I am by no means surprised by this soldiers account. I have many many friends that live in the Fort Riley- Manhattan area, and they've pretty much confirmed that military people there are pretty much required to be all about Jesus or face humiliation and ridicule from fellow soldiers and senior officers. How the hell did our military become a freaking Jesus-hard-on party?

[MrModerate]

3. They "couldn't protect him" because he was an atheist?

Shee-it, if the (fictional) Islamofascists don't wreck the US military, then the (actual) Christianists surely will. They've just about totally cornholed the Air Force Academy, ensuring the next generation of Air Force leaders are totally beholden to a mythical being who sadly won't actually help them the next time they find their pious butts in danger.

Meanwhile anyone who doesn't buy the god schtick has been chased out. I'm so sick of this.

I have nothing against those who manage to believe in dieties. I don't get it, but it's no skin off my nose.

Until they start insisting that everyone believe the same fantasies they do and casting out anyone who doesn't. Incidentally disabling the institutions they're a part of.

When did America get so stupid?

[baldguy]

4. November 4, 1980

[eShirl]

5. bingo.

[fshrink]

23. Now just imagine

running for any kind of office anywhere while stating the same absence of belief.

[Judi Lynn]

6. Love the quote from Mikey Weinstein, of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation:

"The average American doesn't have enough intestinal fortitude to tell someone to shut up if they are talking in a movie theater," Weinstein said. "You know how hard it is to take on your chain of command? This isn't the shift manager at KFC."

United States Army Specialist Jeremy Hall takes a moment to collect his thoughts at a local coffee shop near Fort Riley in Junction City, Kan., Thursday, April, 24, 2008. Hall, an atheist, has brought a religious discrimination lawsuit against the government naming Secretary of Defense Robert Gates in the legal proceedings. He has filed a lawsuit alleging his constitutional rights have been violated because he doesn't believe in God. (Chuck France / AP)

[Judi Lynn]

7. Earlier story on this soldier from April 3: Fort Riley soldier alleges new threats over lawsuit

Fort Riley soldier alleges new threats over lawsuit

Associated Press - April 3, 2008 4:24 PM ET

TOPEKA, Kan. (AP) - A Fort Riley soldier says he still faces threats from fellow soldiers because he's filed a religious discrimination lawsuit.

Spc. Jeremy Hall filed a formal statement Wednesday with the Army. He says he overheard a conversation between two sergeants in his platoon and one wanted to "bust Hall in the mouth."

Hall says he faces the animosity because he is an atheist and is suing the Department of Defense. He alleges it permits a culture that pushes fundamentalist Christianity.

He says he does not feel safe his unit.

http://www.nebraska.tv/Global/story.asp?S=8114739

[tpsbmam]

8. Soldier Says His Atheism Led to Threats

Source: NY Times

When Specialist Jeremy Hall held a meeting last July for atheists and freethinkers at Camp Speicher in Iraq, he was excited, he said, to see an officer attending.

But minutes into the talk, the officer, Maj. Freddy J. Welborn, began to berate Specialist Hall and another soldier about atheism, Specialist Hall wrote in a sworn statement. “People like you are not holding up the Constitution and are going against what the founding fathers, who were Christians, wanted for America!” Major Welborn said, according to the statement.

Major Welborn told the soldiers he might bar them from re-enlistment and bring charges against them, according to the statement.

Last month, Specialist Hall and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, an advocacy group, filed suit in federal court in Kansas, alleging that Specialist Hall’s right to be free from state endorsement of religion under the First Amendment had been violated and that he had faced retaliation for his views. In November, he was sent home early from Iraq because of threats from fellow soldiers.

(more at link)

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/26/us/26atheist.html?hp

[Bigmack]

9. Sooooo different...

from when I was in... 1962-1966.

There were atheists in foxholes!

"Sky 6" was the chaplain, and "Sky 6 Actual" was just another way of indicating that god... if there was one... was just another officer doing shit to cause you discomfort or get you killed.

This is not a rhetorical question... when did this country get all weirdly religious. And WHY?

[Ian David]

10. Jimmy Carter let the camel's nose into the tent. Reagan let the rest of the camel in. n/t

[Joanie Baloney]

13. The military became religious probably

about the same time that the founding fathers posthumously converted to Christianity.

Edited to make sense

[KSinTX]

22. Love the edit postscript - been there. nt

[KSinTX]

24. The MPs are such an insular subgroup this doesn't surprise me

Since their chain of command lies outside that of the unit which it serves, there's little to have diffused the taint he received at his original assignment. Typically, these things aren't much of an issue in the general military population. Compare this with the crappy chain of command within the MP Battalion at Abu Grahib.

[orleans]

28. lol n/t

[ElboRuum]

17. Simple...

When things go well, we break our arms patting ourselves on the back for our righteousness and ingenuity.

When shit happens, it's God's doing, not “hey, we're acting like a bunch of assholes.”

What else do you expect from a country that's raised irresponsibility to a fine art?

[0007]

11. I wonder if the Military will start executing the troops that are free thinkers?

Garrison Keillor sez going to church doesn't make you a christian anymore than sleeping in your garage will make you a car.

“Religion is inextricably intertwined with their jobs,” Mr. Weinstein said. “You’re promoted by who you pray with.”

[Joanie Baloney]

14. Oh come now "execute" is such a strong word.

"Friendly fire" is much more, well...ummm...friendly.

Pat Tillman would certainly agree.

[heliarc]

20. Frag em...nt

[Duke Newcombe]

25. I'll take a shower afterwards...

...but Garrison Keillor is. spot. on.

This Christian is ashamed of such behavior--this is not how it is done.

Duke

[bean fidhleir]

26. "going to church doesn't make you a christian anymore...."

Keillor stole that from ex-ballplayer Rev Billy Sunday: "Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than going to a garage makes you an automobile"

[ohio2007]

12. Don't foot patrol past a mosque in Iraq on friday's if the mullahs can ID you

I very much doubt the US military will refuse your request to re-up so tell it to the majority in Iraq

/sarc

[ckramer]

15. Looks like the fastest way to get out of Iraq is

becoming an atheist!

Give a big fat middle finger to Maj. Freddy J. Welborn.

[msongs]

16. onward christian soldiers, marching off to eternal wars against non believers nt

[Judi Lynn]

18. Military probes atheist GI’s harassment claims

Military probes atheist GI’s harassment claims
Soldier alleges mistreatment by officers, peers while serving in Iraq

updated 1:16 p.m. CT, Sat., Sept. 22, 2007
TOPEKA, Kan. - Military officials in Iraq are investigating allegations that an Army specialist is being harassed for being an atheist but said Saturday that they cannot find an officer the soldier has named in a federal lawsuit.

Spc. Jeremy Hall and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation filed a lawsuit against Maj. Paul Welborne and Defense Secretary Robert Gates in U.S. District Court in Kansas City, Kansas, this past week. It alleges that Welborne threatened to pursue military charges against Hall and to block his reenlistment because he was trying to hold a meeting of atheists and non-Christians in Iraq.

The suit also alleges that Gates permits a military culture in which officers are encouraged to pressure soldiers to adopt and espouse fundamentalist Christian beliefs.

On Friday, Mikey Weinstein, the foundation's founder and president, released to The Associated Press copies of e-mails from Hall in which the soldier said he had been harassed and threatened on blogs with being killed by friendly fire for filing the lawsuit.

More:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20922106/

[Judi Lynn]

19. Jeremy Hall, an Army Specialist in Iraq is Harassed, Threatened after MRFF’s Lawsuit went Public

Jeremy Hall, an Army Specialist in Iraq
is Harassed, Threatened after
MRFF’s Lawsuit went Public

By Ilene Proctor - September 24, 2007


In today’s Army, it's hard to fight for God & Country if you have the wrong (or no) God. Such is the case with Jeremy Hall, an Army specialist based in Iraq, whose personal safety is now in severe jeopardy.

If your blood runs cold when you read this, it will freeze when you read why

Because of the frequent occurrences of “fragging” and what happened to Pat Tillman’s and other “friendly fire” occurrences, Hall has every reason to fear for his safety. After word got out that he was a plaintiff in a landmark lawsuit that named Secretary of Defense Robert Gates as a Defendant, alleged postings of messages on military and civilian based blogs, such as military.com, apparently threatened Hall with "fragging," a colloquial expression used by the military in which an unpopular soldier could be killed by intentional friendly fire during combat. Weinstein indicated he has not yet been able to verify the authenticity of the blog postings threatening Hall with "fragging." Weinstein further states that he “takes the threat of violence against Hall seriously and has already reached out to senior officials in the Pentagon as well as senior Army operations officials to ensure Hall's safety.”

Hall writes: "Mikey, I hope I am not a victim of a hate crime while I sleep 2 tonight," "I do not want to die for my country this way. The soldier( whom he names) is threatening to beat my ass and all sorts of things. I may be harmed or worse. I am afraid for my safety. I can’t sleep man... I just layed (sic) in my bunk for two hours and I couldn't sleep."

An Army Specialist, Jeremy Hall, who is on active duty at Combat Operations Base Speicher, Iraq, is in this dire situation solely because of his atheistic beliefs, and the fact that he declined to participate in a Christian prayer ceremony commemorating the Thanksgiving Holiday.

"Immediately after plaintiff made it known he would decline to join hands and pray, he was confronted, in the presence of other military personnel, by the senior ranking staff sergeant who asked plaintiff why he did not want to pray, whereupon plaintiff explained because he is an atheist," says the lawsuit filed by the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF), an organization with an undisputed moral compass that is always focused on assuring that our Military’s might is matched with America’s Constitutional guarantees. (http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org) "The staff sergeant asked plaintiff what an atheist is and plaintiff responded it meant that he (plaintiff) did not believe in God. This response so infuriated the staff sergeant he told plaintiff that he would have to sit elsewhere for the Thanksgiving dinner. Nonetheless, plaintiff sat at the table in silence and finished his meal." Specialist Hall was then told he would have to face consequences because he, in so many words, refused to be evangelized.

More:
http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/jeremy_hall_harassed.html

[NM Independent]

21. I had no idea it was that bad in the military.

That has to be stopped, NOW!

To quote the great George Carlin:

"Do you believe in God? No? BANG. Dead. Do you believe in God? Yes? Do you believe in MY God? No? BANG. Dead. My God has a bigger dick than your God."

Oh, and for the last fucking time. NOT ALL THE FOUNDING FATHERS WERE CHRISTIAN. Damnit. We have freedom FROM religion as well.

[bean fidhleir]

27. I'll tell you, make me SecDef and every bible-thumper would be told to

throw in his papers or face a general court for conduct unbecoming.

[orleans]

29. k&r n/t