FLDS attorney challenges Texas count of pregnant minors from polygamous sect

[High Plains]

Source: Salt Lake Tribune

SAN ANGELO, Texas - An attorney for FLDS families in Texas challenged the state's allegations of a "pervasive pattern" of underage girls having children, saying the state's own documents show just three teenagers in custody are pregnant. Of those girls, one will turn 18 in a few months and another merely refused to take a pregnancy test, said Rod Parker, a Salt Lake City attorney representing families at the YFZ Ranch. "That leaves us with one," he said.

Parker also said Friday that one state document includes a woman whose first child was born more than a decade ago. He said he based his statements on a copy of a list created by an investigator for Texas Child Protective Services. "I challenge CPS to come forward with the pregnant minors," said Parker. Investigator Angie Voss submitted the chart last week during a two-day court hearing to bolster the state's contention that all children at the ranch were at risk of abuse.

<snip>

The count of children in custody rose again Friday after CPS determined that 25 girls who claimed to be adults are actually minors, said spokesman Chris Van Deusen. That group may overlap with the 20 listed in the court document as pregnant or as mothers, he said. "The only thing we can say is we're aware of 20 young girls who became pregnant when they were between the ages of 13 and 16," Van Deusen said. "That's not to say that there are 20 now, but at the time they conceived they were 13, 14, 15, or 16. "That establishes that there was some sexual abuse here," he said. Van Deusen said the court document may not include minors identified as pregnant or mothers since the court hearing. He also said he could not talk about investigative results that haven't been made public in court or otherwise.

One CPS document reviewed by The Salt Lake Tribune lists just three pregnant teenagers. The court document, also reviewed by The Tribune, includes women who became mothers before the FLDS' move to Texas or before the state raised the age of marriage, with parents' permission, from 14 to 16 in 2005. The chart does not indicate whether the women are legally married or the ages of the children's fathers. Among them: One woman, now 30, listed as having given birth to her first child in 1993 when she was 14. A reference to this situation was made by a CPS investigator without explaining when the pregnancy occurred during the two-day court hearing in which Judge Barbara Walther made her decision to keep the children in state custody.



Read more: http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_9056589

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The war over the kids continues. No parent is just going to roll over and let the state take their kids, and these people apparently have some resources.

[High Plains]

1. A bit more from the article:

Parker said one CPS list shows some of the minors in state custody are or are about to become adults. One girl sent to a Baptist emergency shelter turned 18 nearly two weeks ago, he said. "They need to let those people out," Parker said.

Parker also refuted CPS' description of an orderly, calm separation of mothers and children at the coliseum. He said it was "complete pandemonium." As the children, all younger than 5, figured out what was happening, they started screaming and CPS workers had to pry many away from their mothers. "This is inhuman. This is un-American," said Parker, who also said a civil rights lawsuit is possible.

He also said CPS assured nursing mothers they would be able to take breast milk to their infants but, as of early Friday, had been given no information on where the children had been taken. They also were told sibling groups would be kept together. Thirteen children from one family were sent to five locations, he said. All the FLDS men and many women, some of whom returned Friday, remain on the ranch. "There is a real singular mind-set at the ranch right now to get these children home," he said.

[Warpy]

7. OK, who's the liar here?

The stories I've read have stated that children under five were kept with their mothers when those mothers were known. Nursing infants were all kept with their mothers, for obvious reasons. Only children who had been warehoused in dormitories and who couldn't identify their mothers were taken to a separate location.

Obviously, somebody's doing a lot of lying here, either CPS or this guy.

My bet is on the side with the most to lose, the FLDS. However, I just know one side is doing a helluva lot of prevarication.

[Marrah_G]

11. I tend to not believe the organized crime lawyer, which is what he is.

The FLDS is a large organized crime family who have gotten away with this for far too long.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JeanGrey]

17. They are MONSTERS that do not deserve children.

The more I read about this people, I feel ill. If they allow this to go on it would be a tragedy of historic proportions.

[High Plains]

22. Ah, more propaganda terms: "organized crime lawyer"

It would be nice if people could discuss this with acting like paid spinmasters.

[High Plains]

14. Well, certainly both sides have every reason to present their case.

CPS has taken every child from that community. It damned well better have a good reason, and it is certainly doing its best to get its side of the story out.

CPS, too, has a lot to lose if it turns out it overreacted, which is what I would call what happened.

I really don't see any reason to take every kid out of there. They are accused of marrying teenage girls, not teenage boys, not prepubescent children, not infants. How are any of these other groups of kids in imminent danger of abuse or neglect?

I have heard various allegations about waterboarding babies, welfare moms, etc., but I'm not sure they have anything to do with the people at FLDS El Dorado. Does anyone have more information on alleged abuses at El Dorado?

[WolverineDG]

21. Only 3 listed on CPS' final placement list

Take from that what you will.

dg

[mbperrin]

2. They have many millions of dollars earned from welfare fraud

in at least three states. "Spiritually married" women file as single abandoned women and collect maximum benefits which are funneled to the leadership.

Who do you think paid for all those new black SUVs the adults drive around? We do.

Children are cheap to raise without toys, electronics of any kind, standard medical care, and with mandatory work days growing your own food, living communally with no individual rooms or real possessions.

And in Utah and Colorado, men who can't work outside and pay $1000 a week to stay in are simply discarded, including many thousands of teenage boys.

Quite the system, isn't it?

[Arkansas Granny]

6. Is welfare fraud part of the investigation they are doing? If so, that should

be easy enough to determine and prosecute. As I said downthread, I haven't been following this story too closely so I am probably underinformed.

[Marrah_G]

10. I am sure they are. Investigating is difficult because the cult is so cut off from the world.

They actually have a name for it. Bleeding the beast. We are the beast. Lying and stealing from us is fine because we are the enemy in their eyes. That is what they have been told by the corrupt men who run this cult. Their leader is already in jail for his part in ordering underage marriages.

[hisownpetard]

3. Personally, I would rather that my tax dollars go to paying benefits for our veterans rather than

for financing pedophilia.

But maybe that's just me...

[mbperrin]

4. I'm with you. That's two.

nt

[Arkansas Granny]

5. I haven't been following this story closely, so there is probably some info that I'm missing.

However, I'm really puzzled by the actions that have been taken by the state. If the allegations that have been made have a basis in fact, of course they need to be investigated. But to separate children from their families on the evidence they have so far is nothing more than child abuse committed by the state of Texas. Surely there is a way to reunite these families and supervise them while the investigation is being conducted.

[MADem]

8. You need to look deeper. The state is protecting those children from an

environment where child abuse routinely occurs. And they still have to establish, legally, who the "family" is.

Right now, they're still establishing, via DNA, which kid goes with which mother.

See, they've been told to LIE..about everything. Whose kid goes with whom, how old they are, everything.

They're dealing with victims who continue to aid their persecutors and who don't realize that they are being persecuted, because they know nothing different. Quite frankly, I think they should take the gelding shears to most of those FDLS menfolks. Sooner the better!

[Marrah_G]

9. Hi Granny

Check out the books "Escape" and "Under the banner of heaven" also there are some documentaries on YouTube feature women who have escaped from the cult. This truly is an ugly cult, not a religion. It feeds on abuse, violence, slavery and many, many crimes. It should have been stopped a long time ago. The children are kept from an education and the outside world. When they hit puberty the girls are married off to much older men, most often as 5,6,7th wives the boys are dropped on the side of a road with nothing but the carpentry skills they learned while working for the cults construction company for no pay.

They suck the welfare rolls dry through food stamps and medicaid while giving nothing back to the community at all. They lie and say they don't know who the fathers are so there is nothing being paid by these men with 40 kids.

If a man protests about anything he is thrown out and his wives and children are reassigned to other men. It is not uncommon to find a woman married to the same man as her mother. The girls are told a couple hours before their wedding and have no say in the matter.

I am Wiccan and therefore I have a great concern about the state interfering with religion, but this isn't about religion. This is about organized crime wrapped up in the cloak of "religion".


Also please read this:

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/observer/story.html?id=0ff3d621-4d12-4f18-9c71-623d777061e7

[Warpy]

12. I hate to be crude, but this was a booty farm for old men.

Children didn't belong to families as we know them. Once weaned, they were housed in dormitories. They were instructed to call all women "mom" and all men "uncle." If that isn't a setup to future incest, what is?

There have been other scandals involving the abandonment of boys from 12 up when they started to notice girls and compete with the old men.

The old men in this organization have been systematically robbing the government for years supporting their enormous polygamous families on public assistance.

The FLDS is a bad cult that is getting worse with each successive "prophet."

The latest one, Warren Jeffs, has been convicted on charges of organizing the rape of underage girls by old men after involuntary "spiritual marriages," something the girls had no right to refuse.

Please learn about this cult before you jump on the people who are trying to rescue the children from it.

[TroubleMan]

18. That's not crude; that's exactly what it is.

The media is beating around the bush on this one. (pun not intended)

[DiverDave]

13. If there is ONE, thats too many

god, how does a sane person defend these fucking monsters and sleep at night?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

16. Where is Lilburn Boggs when you need him?

I feel ill just thinking about this Joseph Smith cult bullshit.

[fasttense]

19. What we know is just the tip of the iceberg.

If they sexualized their little girls they probably sexualized their little boys too. But evidence of the rape of boys is harder to find and easier to cover up. The girls got pregnant, if they had their menses. It is much easier to prove they were under age. I wonder how many prepubescent girls got "educated" in sex by the uncles before they were married off?

The living situation was a pedophile's dream.

[madmusic]

20. tip of the iceberg

"Similarly, a growing number of abortion foes are questioning whether abortion clinics are covering up crimes of sexual abuse of underaged girls who end up pregnant.

"There again, it's a thorny legal issue - since patient confidentiality is concerned. But it would seem evidence of a crime would trump that consideration, and that abortion clinics should be able to - even be forced to - reveal evidence that an underaged girl has been sexually abused."

http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/042708/edi_196443.shtml

To be consistent, abortion doctors that don't report a minor being pregnant should go to jail.

[High Plains]

23. Do you have the least bit of evidence for your pedophilia claim?

Apparently some TEENAGE girls were married off and got pregnant.

I haven't heard any evidence of a pattern of prepubescent boys or girls being sexually abused.