Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

STOCK MARKET WATCH, Monday April 28

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 06:45 AM
Original message
STOCK MARKET WATCH, Monday April 28
Source: du

STOCK MARKET WATCH, Monday April 28, 2008

COUNTING THE DAYS
DAYS REMAINING IN THE * REGIME 268

DAYS SINCE DEMOCRACY DIED (12/12/00) 2654 DAYS
WHERE'S OSAMA BIN-LADEN? 2379 DAYS
DAYS SINCE ENRON COLLAPSE = 2670
Number of Enron Execs in handcuffs = 19
ENRON EXECS CONVICTED = 10
Enron execs conveniently deceased = 3
Other Arrests of Execs = 54



U.S. FUTURES &
MARKETS INDICATORS>
NASDAQ FUTURES-----------------------------S&P FUTURES





AT THE CLOSING BELL WHEN BUSH TOOK OFFICE on January 22, 2001
Dow - 10,578.24
Nasdaq - 2,757.91
S&P 500 - 1,342.90
Oil - $27.69/bbl
Gold - $266.70/oz.


AT THE CLOSING BELL ON April 25, 2008

Dow... 12,891.86 +42.91 (+0.33%)
Nasdaq... 2,422.93 -5.99 (-0.25%)
S&P 500... 1,397.84 +9.02 (+0.65%)
Gold future... 889.70 +0.30 (+0.03%)
30-Year Bond 4.59% +0.05 (+0.99%)
10-Yr Bond... 3.87% +0.04 (+1.02%)






GOLD,EURO, YEN, Loonie and Silver



PIEHOLE ALERT

Heads Up!
Preliminary info on appearances by Bush & Co. throughout the country. Details & links are added as they become available so check back. And if you know more, are organizing something, or would like to, contact actionpost@legitgov.org

For information on protests and other actions Citizens For Legitimate Government









Read more: du
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. Market WrapUp: Phase Dance
BY BRIAN PRETTI

Maybe it’s always this way, but it sure seems 1Q earnings season, and the expectations of earnings releases in many cases, has brought us a very decent amount of individual stock volatility in the last few weeks. Watching the likes of a Google vault 20% due really to favorable foreign currency translation, or a Citi pick up a bit of steam based on a “kitchen sink” type of quarter (as you know, it’s probably the third “kitchen sink” quarter in a row now, but who’s counting?), have been quite the sights to behold. And as always, if these types of individual stock acceleration motivators aren’t enough, there’s always the old standby “they beat expectations” to fall back on. Amazing this one still works after all of these years, isn’t it?

Anyway, now that the Fed and friends have made it absolutely clear they will backstop the financial sector, we’re in a period of relief. Relief that the end of the world as we know it, so to speak, is not about to occur in real time. The relief phase of the current equity cycle journey is upon us. But what about the next phase? Looking ahead, investors will ultimately have to discount the character and complexion of the domestic US economy, continued economic strength or weakness abroad, and what this all means for individual equity sector earnings prospects looking forward. Certainly a key piece of this analysis and ultimate discounting rests with the character of the US consumer. One step at a time as we move forward. The current phase of relief will ultimately give way to the phase of reality in corporate earnings strength as we move toward summer. In my mind, this is the next important phase that awaits us directly on the road ahead.

.....

http://www.financialsense.com/Market/wrapup.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
2. dollar watch


http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_DX&v=i

Last trade 72.554 Change -0.116 (-0.16%)

Dollar - Can the Rally Last Through Jobs Report?

http://www.dailyfx.com/story/topheadline/Will_the_FOMC__Q1_GDP_1209331049034.html

The US dollar staged a massive comeback last week as US economic data indicated that, while conditions remain dismal, they aren’t quite as bad as expected. First, the Richmond Fed index “only” fell to 0 from +6, versus expectations of a drop to -1, while existing home sales slipped 2.0 percent. Next, the headline reading of the Commerce Department's durable goods orders report contracted for the third consecutive month during March, due largely to declines in demand for transportation and defense goods. However, the markets took their cue from the durable goods orders excluding transportation reading, as the index surged 1.5 percent and helped to keep the US dollar rally alive.

Looking ahead to this week, Tuesday’s economic data will likely highlight some of the reasons why traders are ramping up speculation that the country is in midst of a recession. Indeed, the S&P/Case-Schiller index of home prices is likely to fall sharply for the fourteenth consecutive month. Later in the morning, the Conference Board’s consumer confidence index is forecasted to fall to a five year low of 62.0 from 64.5, which won’t be entirely surprising as rocketing food and energy prices combined with the collapse of the US housing sector and tightening credit conditions have sparked widespread pessimism throughout the financial markets. On Wednesday morning, highly anticipated Q1 GDP figures will be released, and a Bloomberg News poll of economists reflects consensus estimates for a 0.3 percent gain. However, these could be rather optimistic expectations, as there is a good possibility that GDP could actually fall negative.

Nevertheless, the market’s response may be muted as the FOMC rate decision will come at 14:15 EST and the Bank is forecasted to cut the fed funds rate by 25bps to 2.00 percent. However, the vote for the March reduction in the fed funds rate had two dissenters, both of whom voted in favor of “less aggressive” policy given upside inflation risks, and futures are now only pricing in a 75 percent chance of a 25bp rate cut and a 25 percent chance of no change in policy. The odds are certainly in favor of more accommodative policy, but if the concurrent policy statement suggests that the FOMC may not cut rates again at their next meeting, the US dollar could actually rally. The latter part of the week will see both ISM Manufacturing and Non-farm Payrolls, though the employment data will likely be the bigger market-mover. NFPs are expected to fall negative for the fourth consecutive month, indicating that consumer spending will continue to deteriorate as record high energy and food prices sap disposable income. – TB

...more...


Dollar Looking at a Perfect Fundamental Storm

http://www.dailyfx.com/story/bio1/Dollar_Looking_at_a_Perfect_1209162922566.html

There was little to alter the greenback’s slow but steady rise through the week’s end Friday. The only economic indicator to cross the wires was the final reading of the University of Michigan’s consumer confidence survey. And, while the revision is rarely a market mover, the downside adjustment to a new 26-year low stands as a poignant reminder of why economists and traders are still wary on the outlook for the US economy and the dollar. Looking ahead to next week, volatility is almost guaranteed with an economic calendar that is crowded with the top market moving indicators. Taking the oncoming tidal wave day-by-day, things begin slow with a report-free Monday. Tuesday will offer the Conference Board’s measure of consumer sentiment for April; though with the University of Michigan’s figure already ingrained into the market, there is likely to be limited reaction to number. The following day’s docket holds the greatest potential for a fundamentally-driven run in the majors. The morning brings the advanced reading of first quarter GDP. Oddly enough, the consensus from economists is calling for a 0.5 percent annualized pace of expansion (a tick below the fourth quarter clip) despite a deepening housing recession, a turn in employment and contractions in both the services and manufacturing sectors. Such a moderate forecast opens the market to considerable surprises; but a reaction could be dampened by a FOMC rate decision due later that afternoon. Fed Fund Futures are pricing in only a 74 percent chance of a 25bp rate cut while the remaining 26 percent is calling for no change. This is a considerable change from where we were only a few weeks ago, but we have also seen evidence that the credit crunch is easing. After the calendar crests on Wednesday, ISM manufacturing will represent a lull for fundamental traders the following session considering the previous day’s event risk and Friday’s NFPs. Payrolls are expected to have fallen by 78,000 jobs this month, what would be a fourth consecutive drop.

...more...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 06:52 AM
Response to Original message
3. How the SEC Manufactured the Credit Market Crisis
http://www.grantspub.com/UserFiles/File/Einhorn_Grants_Conference_04-08-2008.pdf

this speech is well worth reading the entire text - can't copy and paste any of it here because of the security settings on the pdf - but really really recommend that everyone open the pdf and read every word of it!

and here's an excerpt about that speech from Ben Stein's article in the NYT this week

“These adjustments reduced the amount of required capital to engage in increasingly risky activities,” Mr. Einhorn says.

In response to Mr. Einhorn’s critique, an S.E.C. spokesman told me that these changes could theoretically lower capital, but that the agency has seen no evidence that that has, in fact, occurred.

But Mr. Einhorn has even more troubling observations. He says the S.E.C. also allowed broker-dealers to set their own valuations on assets and liabilities that were hard to value. And broker-dealers could assign their own creditworthiness ratings to counterparties in complex derivatives transactions when those counterparties were otherwise unrated.

In a word, Mr. Einhorn says, the S.E.C. told Wall Street to police itself to save on regulatory costs, while not bothering to “discuss the cost to society of increasing the probability that a large broker-dealer could go bust.”

A result of all this, he says, was as follows:

“The owners, employees and creditors of these institutions are rewarded when they succeed, but it is all of us, the taxpayers, who are left on the hook if they fail. This is called private profits and socialized risk. Heads, I win. Tails you lose. It is a reverse-Robin Hood system.”
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
4. OPEC president sees $200 oil possible: report
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080428/bs_nm/oil_opec_president_dc

ALGIERS (Reuters) - OPEC President Chakib Khelil does not rule out oil prices reaching $200 a barrel, even though supply is adequate, because the market is driven by the dollar's slide, Algerian government newspaper El Moudjahid reported on Monday.

"Questioned about a possible rise which would go to $200, the minister did not rule out this eventuality, explaining that this rise is indexed from now on to the fall in the dollar or to the rise in the dollar," El Moudjahid reported.

"In terms of fundamentals, stocks are high, demand is easing, supply is satisfactory. Therefore normally, without geo-political problems and the fall of the dollar, the prices of oil would not be at this level," he was quoted as saying.

Khelil, a former World Bank official, is also Algeria's Minister of Energy and Mines.

He added: "The prices are high due to the fact of the recession in the United Sattes and the economic crisis which has touched several countries, a situation which has an effect on the devaluation of the dollar, and therefore each time the dollar falls one percent, the price of the barrel rises by $4, and of course vice versa," he was quoted as saying in brief remarks to journalists on Sunday.

He added that: "If this (the dollar) strengthens by 10 percent, it is probable that (oil) prices will fall by 40 percent."

...more...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
8.  Oil nears $120 following labor and military strikes
VIENNA, Austria - Oil prices hit an all-time high near $120 a barrel Monday after a weekend refinery strike closed a pipeline system that delivers a third of Britain's North Sea oil to refineries in the U.K.

The shutdown comes amid supply outages in Nigeria that have helped to support oil against a strengthening dollar.

.....

Light, sweet crude for June delivery rose to a record $119.93 a barrel in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange. The contract eased back to $119.04 a barrel by noon in Europe, up 52 cents from Friday's close of $118.52.

BP PLC on Sunday shut down the Forties Pipeline System that carries more than 700,000 barrels of oil a day to the U.K. because of a 48-hour walkout by employees at a refinery in central Scotland.

.....

This week, the oil market is also expected to closely watch the outcome of the U.S. Federal Reserve's policy meeting on Tuesday and Wednesday.

The central bank's policymakers will meet to decide whether to lower interest rates again and to issue an updated assessment of the U.S. economy and financial system. Most investors believe the Fed will lower rates by another quarter percentage point — and that it will also suggest it may temporarily halt its round of recent cuts.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/oil_prices
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. Gasoline could hit $7 a gallon in four years: CIBC
SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Surging crude prices, which could surpass $200 a barrel in four years on tight supplies, could push gasoline prices to as high as $7 a gallon, CIBC World Markets analysts said Thursday.

Crude supplies are actually lower than some official estimates indicate, while demand is unlikely to fall anytime soon, according to a statement by analysts led by Jeff Rubin at CIBC, an investment bank. They forecast that these tighter supplies and continued strong demand will drive oil and gasoline prices to roughly double their current levels by 2012.

.....

CIBC based its prediction on an analysis of crude-production estimates by the International Energy Agency, which the investment bank says has overstated supplies because the agency counts natural-gas liquids as part of the output. Stripping out natural-gas liquids, the global oil market is much tighter, and oil production will hardly grow, they added.

.....

Demand from major oil producers and exporters is also seen rising. Over the last three years, oil consumption in OPEC members has grown an average of over 5% a year. Combined demand from OPEC members, together with Russia and Mexico, already stood at about 13 million barrels a day, the world's second largest after the U.S.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/gasoline-could-hit-7-oil/story.aspx?guid=%7B824E895C%2DF649%2D4526%2D89F1%2D50C198A8A0D5%7D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
5. National Century trial Columbus Ohio - Prosecutors look to take executives' homes, cars


4/28/08 Prosecutors look to take executives' homes, cars

Pension funds and public and private investors lost a total of $1.9 billion when National Century Financial Enterprises collapsed, the investors say.

This week, federal prosecutors begin trying to recoup some of that money by asking a judge to make five recently convicted company executives financially responsible.

Prosecutors are trying to attach a $1.7 billion IOU to each of the defendants. The amount reflects losses that were proved at trial. Assets would be collected from each until $1.7 billion is recovered.

To accomplish that, prosecutors will be going for "every last penny" the defendants have, Assistant U.S. Attorney Doug Squires said in federal filings.

That means such things as Donald H. Ayers' million-dollar homes and Rebecca S. Parrett's art gallery as well as cars, televisions and jewelry.

It's difficult to gauge how much can be recouped, said Fred Alverson, spokesman for the U.S. attorney's office.

Prosecutors estimate that Ayers made more than $7.4 million while working at National Century; Parrett, $7.6 million; Randolph H. Speer, around $1.2 million; Roger S. Faulkenberry, about $2.3 million; and James E. Dierker Jr., more than $712,000.

If U.S. District Judge Algenon L. Marbley agrees that the five should be held financially responsible, prosecutors will follow up with filings spelling out what the government hopes to seize, Squires said. Marbley is expected to rule in June.

Squires declined to elaborate on what the government will try to take. However, from earlier court filings, it's obvious that prosecutors have their sights on the defendants' homes, no matter whose name is on the deed.

Ayers has argued against forfeiting his Muirfield Village home because it's in his wife's name. Faulkenberry, too, lives in a home owned solely by his wife. He signed the house over to her in November 2002, the same month the company filed for bankruptcy, according to Delaware County records.

Parrett opened an art gallery in Carefree, Ariz., in 2005 and owns a personal art collection, according to news reports at the time.

If the judge agrees, the government could take her property even though Parrett disappeared in March and remains at large, Parrett's attorney, Greg Peterson, said. "He can proceed with her in absentia."

Court filings to date don't say what the executives own.

However, after the trial, Ayers withdrew $800,000 from a bank account, according to court testimony. Squires told Marbley the withdrawal showed that Ayers, like Parrett, is likely to flee. But Ayers' attorney, Brian Dickerson, said the money was to pay for past and future legal expenses.

What the government collects might be far less than $1.7 billion, Alverson conceded, but that is not a concern. "It's important to have that judgment against them in case they ever come into a large sum of money."

Any inheritance or lottery winnings, for example, could be seized, he said. Defense attorneys say their clients are broke.

Faulkenberry's and Speer's assets ran out before the February trial, and taxpayers covered the cost of their court-appointed attorneys; Parrett's Arizona home is in foreclosure, and she is practically indigent, Peterson said at the trial's end.

"It's not taken," James Ervin Jr., one of Speer's two attorneys, said of the money the government claims is owed. "And it's not in a Swiss bank account. It's not buried in a backyard.

"It's where it has always been, in lockboxes," Ervin said, referring to where National Century kept money before it was disbursed.

The company took over bills owed to health-care providers, offering them a lesser amount of cash upfront to pay their expenses. As insurance companies and government programs such as Medicaid paid the bills, National Century held the money in lockboxes.

Some was kept as company profit. Other money went to National Century investors.

Health-care providers acknowledged that they took money out of the lockboxes to stay afloat after National Century filed for bankruptcy. Defendants called it theft.

Kathy Patrick, an attorney who represents the largest group of investors in civil lawsuits against National Century, said she thinks the executives have more money than they admit, saying that Parrett has had the financial means to stay on the lam for a month.

Patrick said she anticipates that the government "will just hound people" until it gets the money.

http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/04/28/WhereIsDaMoney.ART_ART_04-28-08_A1_HMA1LBP.html?sid=101


link backwards to previous articles...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3281287&mesg_id=3281326
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
6. Royal Bank of Scotland to cut approximately 25% of workers.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080428/bs_afp/britainbankingcompanyjobscutsstructurerbs

Britain's Royal Bank of Scotland could axe around 7,000 jobs as it absorbs ABN Amro's investment bank into its global markets division, the Financial Times reported on Monday.

RBS had said last week it would raise 12 billion pounds (15 billion euros, 24 billion dollars) from shareholders to shore up its finances after huge subprime-related writedowns and the blockbuster takeover of Dutch giant ABN Amro.

snip:
RBS, the second largest bank in Britain, was under pressure to act more aggressively as the global markets downturn hits the financial industry, according to the daily business newspaper.

snip:
RBS acquired ABN's investment banking arm last year as part of a record-breaking consortium takeover that was aimed at breaking up the Dutch lender.



As someone suggested last week: Now it's a Depression. Because a Recession is when you lose your job..... When the sharks start culling their own, times are tough.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
43. For legacy reasons this (the National Westminster as was) was/is my British bank.
A disaster, even after the Banco Santander's investment. They're holding $20,000-$25,000 (translating from Sterling) of mine to which they have denied me access these last several years. You telephone, you write, you visit in person your bank - but there is nobody competent with whom you can speak. Just monkeys. If you do manage to get through and to speak to someone, the next time you write or call, they claim to have no record of your previous communications.

But maybe I'm just a weird old man who still expects to be able to establish and maintain a 'personal' relationship with his bank's local representative. As is indeed still the case in Spain.

RBS/NatWest, and by extension any so-called British bank gets from me a big: :thumbsdown: . And if they want to sue me for saying this in public, my answer would be: Great! At least they're talking to me now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
7. No goobermental reports today. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
9. Bernanke May Have to Follow Volcker to Avoid Being Tagged Burns

Bernanke May Have to Follow Volcker to Avoid Being Tagged Burns By Rich Miller


April 28 (Bloomberg) -- Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke may have to start talking and acting more like Paul Volcker if he wants to avoid being remembered as another Arthur Burns.

With oil and food prices surging, Volcker told the Economic Club of New York on April 9 that ``there are some resemblances between the present situation and the period in the early 1970s,'' when then-Fed Chairman Burns let an inflation psychology take hold. ``There was some fear of recession, the oil price went skyrocketing up, the dollar was very weak.''

It took Volcker's effort as Fed chief to push the overnight lending rate to 20 percent in 1980 and drive the economy into its deepest decline since the Depression to break the inflation he inherited. To avoid squandering the gains Volcker made, Bernanke may need to stop his all-out effort to prop up the weakening economy and start paying more attention to countering price pressures.

``You have to take the risk of the possibility of a small recession if you want to avoid ending up with a big one,'' says Allan Meltzer, a Fed historian and professor at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh.

As policy makers meet this week to decide on interest rates, Bernanke has one big thing going for him that Volcker, 80, didn't: Polls show Americans, for the most part, are still convinced the Fed will do what it takes to keep inflation down.

more...
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aBid7AnvOvNA&refer=home
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. If I may use more metaphor -
Sometimes a hard jerk on the steering wheel is what's needed to keep the car from careening off the road and over a cliff.

Volker stopped inflation in its tracks by pushing interest rates to these high levels. It hurt borrowers. But increases in wage and price inflation were halted. That is what we need now - at least to blunt the increase in price inflation in order to give wages the breathing space to catch up.

I'll also add that Volker's extraordinary, albeit necessary, maneuvers doomed his chances of being retained as Fed Chief, leaving the door open for the great fool Greenspan.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #17
25. Very good

But I doubt anything will be done until next year, after Democrats take over.

The FED and PPT are doing everything they can to prop up the market, unless a totally unexpected event occurs that they can't deal with.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
InkAddict Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #25
32. Hurricane season is just around the corner. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. We think about it every day here in Houston.....
It has been cool this summer and rather quit the last 2 years. Should be an interesting season.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
11.  Fed to hold public hearings on BofA-Countrywide deal
LOS ANGELES - Consumer advocates nervous about Bank of America Corp.'s proposed takeover of troubled mortgage lender Countrywide Financial Corp. are pressuring the bank to provide assurances that Countrywide borrowers facing foreclosure won't lose their homes.

The campaign is likely to intensify Monday as members of the Federal Reserve Board begin two days of public hearings on the proposed $4.1 billion stock deal.

The acquisition, which is expected to close in the third quarter, would make Charlotte, N.C.-based Bank of America the nation's largest mortgage lender in addition to the nation's largest consumer bank.

The Fed is required to consider whether the deal would harm consumers. It held its initial public hearing last week in Chicago.

.....

Fisher's group wants Bank of America to give assurances that, if the deal goes through, it would modify mortgages into affordable fixed-rate loans and help borrowers who can't afford new loan terms unload their homes without hurting their credit.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080427/ap_on_bi_ge/federal_reserve_countrywide
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
12.  Greenspan, Bush to blame for U.S. crisis: Stiglitz
Edited on Mon Apr-28-08 07:25 AM by TalkingDog
edited to add link (cause I'm a goof)


When I read the headline I thought: Of course they freakin' do.....but, ahem, that's not what it says.... It says:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080427/ts_nm/stiglitz_dc;_ylt=AqbAAIfnE3EPbKm0Qeba9nLv5rEF

"This man (Greenspan) has unfortunately made a lot of mistakes," said former World Bank chief economist Stiglitz, according to a preview of the interview to be published on Monday in profile magazine.

/snip

It's short and worth a quick read. He says that people are foolish to think that Europe can decouple. I agree.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Never in my life have I ever wished to see an octogenarian in shackles.
Edited on Mon Apr-28-08 07:28 AM by ozymandius
But thanks to Alan Greenspan I am a changed man. What this great fool has done during the past twenty five years, so maliciously and with such calculation, in his seats of power deserves harsh retribution. First off: How many times did the Fed under Greenspan, while working with the Treasury and SEC, wink and give the secret handshake to seal deals that broke laws that separated brokerages and banks? How many times has Greenspan used his sizable influence to protect "black pools of liquidity" from public scrutiny?

His overblown reputation and his dignity need to be taken from him during his lifetime.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Never forget that he was a PERSONAL FRIEND to Ayn Rand
If anyone absorbed her nightmare dream of destroying America to save it and then moved into a position to make that dream come true, it was Alan Greenspan.

Alan Greenspan WANTS to destroy America by destroying our economy.



Tansy Gold
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. but to keep the wealth
concentrated in the wealthiest of the wealthy
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
49. I think that's a conscious part of the objective, to the extent that
I would have written your subject line "AND to keep the wealth. . .."

There is a patronizing attitude in Rand, that the proletariat isn't bright enough to take care of itself and it needs "the men of the mind" to take care of them. Therefore, those "men" SHOULD have all the wealth.

Rand explicitly stated that women should not be in charge of things; women, according to her, need strong men to look up to. The stronger the woman, like her Dagny Taggart character, the stronger the man she needs.

Tansy Gold, who apologizes profusely for frequently getting this thread off topic. . . . . . .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. That does make more sense, it's what I meant
I was in a hurry this morning


:hi:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. While I can appreciate the literary contributions of Ms. Rand
(such as The Fountainhead) to carry her prescriptions for personal ambition to the level at which they are regarded as a panacea for societies' shortcomings is pure folly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. "pure folly"
While I don't consider myself an expert on Rand as a person, I've read quite a bit about her and I've been around quite a few people who believe in her Objectivist philosophy as devoutly as some fundamentalists believe in their church.

As a novelist, I saw the flaws in the story line of Atlas Shrugged the first time I read it, back in early 1968. But as a politically vulnerable individual, I also absorbed a certain amount of the philosophy. It's a "moral hazard" to put in front of the uninformed an ideology that catapults "men of the mind" to precedence over "mere labor." That is Rand's counter to Marx, which is what she was trying to do. Hank Rearden was the sole creator of Rearden Metal because his mind created it. He had the mental capacity as well as the physical capacity to go into the mill and make the alloy, but he hadn't mined the raw minerals or driven the train that shipped them to the mill. And it didn't make a bit of difference that he hadn't built the mill or designed and engineered the equipment. THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERED was that he had created the formula.

This is not much different, in my humble opinion, from the extortionist profits that flow like an undammed river into the pockets of Bill Gates or Steve Jobs or any other "creative" person -- and that includes yours truly (except I don't have that undammed river of extortionist profits flowing into my pocket). Creative endeavors are fine and they're necessary, but they aren't the SOLE producers of product.

Those who find themselves in positions to, pardon the phrase, cash in on Rand's philosophy are probably tempted ("morally hazarded") to do so. Why not Greenspan? Just as someone like, oh, say, Hitler or Mussolini or Stalin comes along and is the right person at the right time, why not Greenspan falling into the job at the Fed where he was "morally hazarded" into implementing his chosen philosophy, however misguided it might be?

A few weeks before I encountered "Atlas Shrugged," I had a chance encounter at a Hare Krishna temple in the East Village. Unlike nearly everyone else in attendance, I did not succumb to the mindless surrender of will and intellect; I escaped into a bitter cold night and felt relief. I was barely 19 years old, and I knew right then that I would never allow myself to trust anyone who put more faith in an unexamined idea than in his or her OWN intellect. The "devotees" in the temple served as an example. Now, I'm not saying I'm totally correct or that anyone has to accept MY philosophy as gospel without examination, but I am saying that I fear those who accept such a philosophy -- meaning, one that takes the moral/financial/emotional/physical destruction of others as "necessary" to achieve one's own ends -- and even more I fear those who have or acquire the power to implement that philosophy on a large scale.

I stand by my fear: Alan Greenspan has demonstrated his faith in Rand's morality of greed and he has the power to implement her vision. I see no reason to think he would resist the temptation, er, "moral hazard" to do so.


Tansy Gold

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. Tansy Gold, could I ask you to please add this to your DU Journal?
It would be nice to have a deconstruction of Rand at my finger tips.

Yes, I agree with you, the blind spot of the "Libertarians" and "Objectivists" is the fact that they rely on some sort
of social order and the buy in of those around them or they will have to provide everything which is needed for them
to work their 'miracles'.

Two quotes from my past which led to my seeing the shallowness of the supply-side thinking:

1) "Even the biggest Capitalist Fish swims in a sea of Socialism." (And they should WANT to, it relieves the Capitalist
from paying the entire cost of what it takes to make their product and in the long run, because there is an educated
and affluent middle class, it provides a Market and Appreciation of what it is they produce.)

2) One of my Professors always said, "No matter how trivial what we're doing seems, remember, we stand on the shoulders
of Giants." This one kind of stuck with me.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #34
46. Gladly!
And let me add here that it's been a dozen years or more since I last read Atlas Shrugged cover to cover. It was a painful experience then, and I presume it would be even more painful now. But perhaps I need to do it.

Sadly, the small portions I read this afternoon were painfully applicable to the current state of the global economy, except from the opposite perspective, meaning that of the people who have been innocently destroyed.

I guess Rand didn't think anyone could be innocent.




TG

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. I had a slightly different reaction to Atlas Shrugged
I kept trying to envision those hard, driven characters dealing with cranky toddlers clinging to their legs, demanding to play horsey. Even at sixteen, I spotted one of the fatal flaws, that it broke down completely when one considered the most purely altruistic act of all--having children. I finished the whole overblown mess in silly giggles.

The real fatal flaw of Objectivism, ironically enough, is the one it shares with Marxism. Both require the perfection of the human species to work.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. Absolutely correct -- (and SPOILER ALERT)
As far as I recall, there is only one child actually on stage in the whole book, and it has no lines. ;-)

And that is one of the flaws I saw. Even at 19, I knew that children throw a whole different perspective on economics, on selfishness, on altruism, on community, and when Rand never had her sexually active main characters get pregnant, have children, or even THINK about the potential for having children, I knew she had missed the main point of how a social order is constructed.

She was also unable to make her main characters truly human, because they, unlike the story, had no flaws, no weaknesses -- and the villains, conversely, had no strengths, no redeeming good qualities. Therefore they couldn't grow, learn, develop. Heroes must make journeys, and along the paths of their journeys they stumble, fall, take wrong turns, learn from their mistakes, and evolve either for better or worse. Dagny and Francisco and Hank and Jim and Cheryl and Eddie and John were all exactly the same people at the end of the book that they were at the beginning.

Now, much of that analysis was something that evolved over the years as I grew and read and learned and progressed as a writer (and a human being) myself, but even on that first reading in 1968, my own innate sense of story told me this was a flaw, that characters who don't grow over the course of events are not "heroes."

Part of that "sense" came just from looking at the book itself. Rand uses the fable of the Twentieth Century Motor Company as the device to debunk Marxism/communism, but she was unable to see that it failed because of ordinary human nature -- greed, laziness, jealousy -- which would also have destroyed her utopia if she had allowed her "good" characters any flaws. Any generosity or kindness that motivated the Stearns heirs was equated with weakness and evil, and I had a difficult time reconciling that to my own generic christian/jewish/american tradition. She was adamantly opposed to anything that suggested compromise, and yet I think that's what essentially makes the world go 'round: we all learn to compromise in order to live together.

To what extent "socialism" successfully bridges the gap between pure Marxist communism and pure Randian capitalism, I just don't know. I would like to think that there is a middle ground that takes all things into consideration and achieves something steadily approaching perfection, but I don't think we've arrived at anything very close to it yet.

But another major element that kept my "willing suspension of disbelief" at bay while reading "Atlas Shrugged" that first time was that I recognized Rand's need to rely on major elements of non-reality to make her point. SPOILER ALERT AT THIS POINT.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

The story hinges on two elements of pure science fiction -- Galt's generator and the invisibility screen over the valley. For all of Rand's insistence on dealing with reality, she couldn't make the story -- and therefore her politics -- work without resorting to blatant fabrication. Furthermore, even though the book was written in the 1950s -- published in 1957 -- there's no television. For her to utilize technology that didn't yet exist but ignore technology that DID was a fatal flaw for me.

In many respects, I saw Eddie Willers as the book's real hero. He was also Rand's voice throughout. The fact that he was left abandoned in the desert, after having given his life -- in direct opposition to Rand's philosophy -- to Dagny and Taggart Transcontinental, Rand let him die a very miserable death. To me that was unconscionable, as a writer, to leave a main character's fate unresolved. I don't think she knew what to do with Eddie, just as she didn't know what to do with children or people who are hurt in industrial accidents or people who get sick or old. She didn't know what to do with real life. Real life is often messy and imperfect. And that made her philosophy inoperable.

And yes, Prag, I'll post this to my journal, too. :hi:

Because I am, though sometimes I'm not,



Tansy Gold






Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #44
54. I wondered if it was actually deliberate? Creating and then disposing of the loyal Eddie?
Exposing, as you point out eloquently here, those essential flaws in her (but, indeed, dramatic, and thought-provoking) argument.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. More Spoiler -- And I'm not quite sure if you mean by "deliberate" that
Rand was deliberately exposing her own flaws?? I don't think so, because that would have meant the whole novel was its own opposite, and that would border on farce. Rand was not farcical.

But I do think Rand was conflicted, at some level, maybe subconscious or even below that, because Eddie was one of two prominent characters who did have some "human" qualities, the other being Cheryl.

(I'm not sure if a "spoiler alert" is even necessary or appropriate for this thread, but I'm used to book discussion boards where failure to issue an alert is practically grounds for the equivalent of tombstoning!)

I remember being stunned when Cheryl was, in soap opera terms, written out of the story. Why, I wondered, did Rand get rid of her just when she (Cheryl) "saw the light"? It seemed stupid at the time, and it seems even more stupid now that I know more about storytelling -- and propaganda. Cheryl was the placeholder for the reader who needed to be "converted" to Objectivism, the person who fell for the superficial glitter of the falsely rich and morally bankrupt. Yet by disposing of her right at the moment of conversion, Rand was essentially saying the Objectivist system didn't have room for converts, just as it didn't have room for the Eddie Willerses of the world, meaning "the rest of us," not even if we were devoted Objectivists in thought, word, and deed. This amounts to preaching to a predestined choir, because no one else is worthy of being saved. (This, imho, makes Objectivism more akin to a religion than to a philosophy, and certainly removes it further from anything resembling economic theory.)

When I went back and read Eddie's last scene this afternoon, I discovered another tidbit of some interest, somewhat forgotten but not entirely. Eddie encounters a group of refugees in wagons -- a suggestion that at the collapse of the "collective" economy, the populace will be reduced to pre-industrial barbarism -- and they are described thusly --

The men of that caravan -- thought Eddie indifferently -- looked too mean-minded to become the founders of a secret, free settlement, and not mean-minded enough to become a gang of raiders; they had no more destination to find than the motionless beam of the headlight; and, like that beam, they would dissolve somewhere in the empty stretches of the country.

These were ordinary people, people "from Imperial Valley, California," who had been displaced in the collapse. They were not only expendable in Rand's universe -- as was Cheryl, as was Eddie -- but they were meaningless.

In the meantime, the real "founders of a secret, free settlement" were listening to symphonies and rewriting the Constitution: "Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of production and trade. . . "

Since Eddie knew nothing about the people in the other "imperial" valley, the irony was Rand's and I can't imagine how it could be anything but intentional. Furthermore, the fact that Rand gave none of these ordinary people -- including Eddie -- any potential for surviving meant that she didn't think they were capable of it. They would simply die or disappear or kill each other or whatever, leaving a pristine wilderness for the intellectuals to repopulate like some Garden of Eden. (One assumes they would have children who would, from birth, be Objectivists with no flaws, no runny noses, no sibling rivalries, no jealousies over prom dresses. . .)

But the worst part of the Eddie situation was that Rand didn't let Dagny have any concern for Eddie. Dagny never wondered what happened to him; she didn't care enough to give him a single thought, and neither did Rand.

But neither did Rand give Eddie's end any meaning, the way she tried to give Cheryl's departure some function, some importance. Cheryl had seen the error of her ways and that revelation shattered her. Eddie's loyalty got him . . . . nothing. That shouldn't have meshed with Rand's philosophy, if her philosophy had any room for the common man. It didn't. The extension, then, is that neither does Greenspan's: the "objective" is to erase the common people and make the world safe for the elites.

So I guess my response would be that I think Rand had to let go of Eddie because there was no place for the likes of him -- loyal worker bees -- in the "new" world, but I'm not sure that it was completely a conscious decision. Then again, maybe it was, but I don't think her intention was to point out her own flaws.

:shrug:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. Kevin Phillips: Hard Numbers: The Economy is Worse Than You Know,
Hard numbers: The economy is worse than you know

By Kevin Phillips, Harper's Magazine
Published Friday, April 25, 2008 5:40 PM


Ever since the 1960s, Washington has gulled its citizens and creditors by debasing official statistics, the vital instruments with which the vigor and muscle of the American economy are measured.

The effect has been to create a false sense of economic achievement and rectitude, allowing us to maintain artificially low interest rates, massive government borrowing, and a dangerous reliance on mortgage and financial debt even as real economic growth has been slower than claimed.

The corruption has tainted the very measures that most shape public perception of the economy:

• The monthly Consumer Price Index (CPI), which serves as the chief bellwether of inflation;

• The quarterly Gross Domestic Product (GDP), which tracks the U.S. economy's overall growth;

• The monthly unemployment figure, which for the general public is perhaps the most vivid indicator of economic health or infirmity.

Not only do governments, businesses and individuals use these yardsticks in their decisionmaking, but minor revisions in the data can mean major changes in household circumstances — inflation measurements help determine interest rates, federal interest payments on the national debt, and cost-of-living increases for wages, pensions and Social Security benefits.

And, of course, our statistics have political consequences too. An administration is helped when it can mouth banalities about price levels being "anchored" as food and energy costs begin to soar.

(more)

http://www.tampabay.com/news/article473596.ece
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Pollyanna Creep
Edited on Mon Apr-28-08 08:53 AM by DemReadingDU
more from Kevin Phillips article

"Pollyanna Creep" is an apt phrase that originated with John Williams, a California-based economic analyst and statistician who "shadows," as he puts it, the official Washington numbers. In a 2006 interview, Williams noted that although few Americans ever see the fine print, the government "always footnotes the changes and provides all the fine detail. Nonetheless, some of the changes are nothing short of remarkable, and the pattern over time is what I call Pollyanna Creep."



edit:
The real numbers, to most economically minded Americans, would be a face full of cold water. Based on the criteria in place a quarter century ago, today's U.S. unemployment rate is somewhere between 9 percent and 12 percent; the inflation rate is as high as 7 or even 10 percent; economic growth since the recession of 2001 has been mediocre, despite a huge surge in the wealth and incomes of the superrich, and we are falling back into recession.


great article!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
13.  Stocks head for higher open amid merger talk, earnings reports
NEW YORK - Stocks headed for a higher open Monday amid more speculation about mergers and acquisitions, and ahead of a handful of earnings reports on tap for the session.

Wm. Wrigley Jr. Co. shares will be in focus after The Wall Street Journal and The New York Times reported that Mars Inc. and Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Inc. may be close to buying the company for more than $22 billion. The acquisition of the maker of Doublemint gum could be announced as early as Monday.

Meanwhile, Continental Airlines Inc. said late Sunday it would not be part of any merger in the near future, a surprise announcement after weeks of speculation it would link up with United Airlines to create the world's biggest airline. Continental Chairman and Chief Executive Lawrence Kellner told employees the Houston-based airline was better off alone just one week after United shocked Wall Street with a $537 million first-quarter loss.

Visa Inc. will post quarterly results late in the day. The world's largest credit-card processor is expected to report strong profits for the second quarter, driven by faster growth overseas.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080428/ap_on_bi_st_ma_re/wall_street
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #13
14.  Continental Airlines tells employees it won't seek merger
DALLAS - Continental Airlines Inc. said Sunday it would not pursue a combination with another carrier right away, a surprising move after weeks of growing speculation that it would join with United Airlines to create the world's biggest airline.

Continental Chairman and Chief Executive Lawrence Kellner said in a message to employees that the Houston-based airline was better off alone than merging.

.....

Although it reported an $80 million loss in the first quarter, Continental is widely viewed as the second-strongest U.S. carrier in financial terms, behind only Southwest Airlines Co., which has indicated it isn't interested in a merger.

.....

Continental expects to spend $1.2 billion more on fuel this year than it did in 2007. To cope with the added cost, the airline plans to take some older, less-fuel-efficient planes out of service over the next 12 months and to reduce its U.S. capacity by 5 percent beginning this fall.

A spokesman for Continental's union pilots said pilots were pleased that the company won't pursue a merger, given the weak condition of other carriers. UAL, for example, lost $537 million in the first quarter and announced it would cut 1,100 jobs.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080428/ap_on_bi_ge/continental_no_merger
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
18. Bush says rebates going out Monday will boost economy (please read)
WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush said tax rebates will start going out Monday, earlier than previously announced, and should help Americans cope with rising gasoline and food prices, as well as aid a slumping economy.

Democrats said they were glad the rebate checks were about to go out, but suggested that multinational oil companies were not among the businesses the stimulus package was originally designed to help.

"Starting Monday, the effects of the stimulus will begin to reach millions of households across our country," Bush said Friday in remarks on the South Lawn of the White House.

Those first rebates will be directly deposited into people's bank accounts. The Internal Revenue Service had been saying direct deposits wouldn't start until next Friday. Bush said paper checks would begin going out on May 9, a week earlier than previously announced.

.....

The rebates -- up to $600 for an individual, $1,200 for a couple and an additional $300 for each dependent child -- are the centerpiece of the government's $168 billion stimulus package, enacted in February. Roughly 130 million households are expected to get them.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080425/bush_economy.html




Ahem! These checks are a rebate on your anticipated refund for next year. This year at the Ozymandius household, we owed the Feds about $1200. Now should the circumstances be the same for next year, after factoring in this rebate, the Ozymandius household will owe $2400.

On second (and third) thought it's not such a great deal is it?

We plan to stick this money in savings, earn some interest on it, before we have to give it back on April 15, 2009.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #18
27. I just checked my account online. It's not there yet.
But I did see a whopping interest payment of $.03!!!!

I'm Rich, Bitch!!!!

:party: :toast: :party: :toast: :woohoo: :applause: :woohoo: :applause:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratInSoCal Donating Member (402 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #18
40. Actually Ozy, That's Incorrect
This truly is "free" money.

The best way to think about it, is as a reduction of the tax rate on the lower portion of taxable income. So, assuming all other things the same, you will still owe the same amount next year as you did this.

Basically, imagine this. In 2007, you paid 15% tax on taxable income between $20,000 & 50,000, or $4,500. In 2008, the rate on that same bracket of taxable income, will be 13%, for a tax of $3,900. These are rough numbers, but hopefully you get the idea.

When you do your taxes for 2008, that 13% rate will be the one they use, so you're getting a lower rate than the regular tax laws provide. Since this is a 1 shot deal, the rate will revert back to the higher amount in '09.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. Thanks for pointing this out.
Mea culpa. That is one detail that I had not discovered. Could you point me to the documents (or better yet - a spreadsheet) that can elaborate this point?

I can tell you with most certainty that the Ozymandius household will exceed the higher figure in this bracket. So I suppose the circumstances will be quite different depending on where the actual upper number on taxable income reaches.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratInSoCal Donating Member (402 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. It's Similar To The "Rebate" They Had In '02
I can't point to anywhere specifically, but I'm sure a google search might yield some results.

The rebate does get limited once a certain income level is reached. It all depends upon marital status, # of dependents, etc.

However, the same as was the case in '02, if for some reason they determine you are eligible for the refund based upon '07 taxes filed, but your '08 income results in pushing you beyond the eligibility threshhold, they Won't make you pay the money back.

So, someone who earned 50,000 in '07 and got the credit now, but ends up with $250,000 in '08, a level which would have not been allowed the credit, that person would be allowed to keep the credit. Basically, once you got it, you got it.

Now that you know how it works, be sure to say THANK YOU to your children And your children's children, because they're the ones who will be paying back the Debt & Interest on this "Freebie!" Also, thank the Chinese for lending us the money to giveaway the $$$ Now, and ask them please not to begin collection proceedings on our Debt to them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #18
41. 'Tax rebate' checks expected to yield short-term benefits, long-term troubles
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0428/p15s01-wmgn.html

snip>

"There is going to be an impact," says Brian Bethune, an economist with Global Insight, an economic consulting firm in Waltham, Mass. But it will be "muted … not strong or explosive." High oil prices will hurt the economy, and by 2009, Global Insight predicts the economy will slip perilously close to zero growth.

Lacy Hunt, an economist with Hoisington Investment Management Co. in Austin, Texas, is even less cheery. "It's a one-shot deal," he says. "At best, it will lift the economy for a little while."

Budget expert Stan Collender doesn't even like the "tax rebate" terminology used by Washington, since many of the poorer recipients will have paid no 2007 federal income tax or amounts less than their government check. The stimulus package, he says, is really "pure borrowing … just increasing the deficit."

For lawmakers, passage of the stimulus package in February offered Democrats and Republicans alike the merits of showing voters they are taking action on the economy. For the White House and Congress, it was the equivalent of the Monopoly "Get Out of Jail Free" card, maintains Mr. Collender, managing director of Corvis Communications in Washington.

snip>

The Federal Reserve has moved dramatically to keep the economy going with interest-rate cuts and financial support activities to ease the liquidity squeeze. As a result, the economy's money supply has grown at a 13 percent annual rate over the past three months. If that growth rate lasts much longer, economists' fears of inflation will escalate. Too much money boosts prices.

But even this growth has been "more than entirely neutralized" by a dramatic decline in the velocity of money, that is, how often the money is spent, says Hunt. It sits unused in financial accounts as banks and other financial institutions try to rebuild capital after suffering severe losses from subprime mortgages, collateralized debt obligations, and other fancy financial instruments. In the current massive credit crunch, velocity has declined at a 2.3 percent per annum rate, calculates Hunt. So the Fed's "best efforts are likely to be thwarted," Hunt says.

more...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
19. Sorry if a repeat, but: By 2009, 63% may owe more on home than it's worth
http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSN2233380820080422


NEW YORK, April 22 (Reuters) - Falling U.S. home prices and a lack of available credit may result in foreclosures on 6.5 million loans by the end of 2012, according to a Credit Suisse research report on Tuesday.

The foreclosures could put 12.7 percent of all residential borrowers out of their homes, Credit Suisse analysts, led by Rod Dubitsky, said in the report. That compares with a foreclosure rate of 2.04 percent in the last quarter of 2007, they said, citing Mortgage Bankers Association data.

The new forecast includes 2.7 million subprime loans whose risky characteristics sparked the worst housing market since the Great Depression. Subprime foreclosures, on top of the 676,000 already in or through the process, will hit 1.39 million in the next two years alone, an upward revision from the 730,000 predicted by Credit Suisse in October.

Falling home prices have made an increasing number of U.S. homeowners more vulnerable to default, they said. Nearly a third of subprime borrowers owed more than their home was worth at the end of last year, and that figure will double to 63 percent in 2009, they said.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
InkAddict Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #19
31. And uncontrolled mergers, outsourcing, insourcing, and failures
will put many out of their rentals. The Fed has acted just like National Century, collecting worthless receivables, returning a lower value to the Ponzi victims while embezzling billions to fund party agendas like eternal war. Wall Street "biggies" that never before rated "protection" from the consequences of bad business can now continue to operate under the umbrella of chosen leadership that espouses "The Shock Doctrine"'s rapacious looting of the struggling.

Personally, Rapture's looking better and better as THE alternative to living in America, continuously being stalked by American corporatist terrorists headed up on this side of the aisle by the likes of fascist-appeasing Eve and her evil twin sister.

Though I'm patient, I ain't forgiving to those that coddle to domestic economic terrorists. JUSTICE,I say!



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H8fascistcons Donating Member (172 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. OOOOOHHHH.......
Sign me up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
20. futures and blather
08:30 am : S&P futures vs fair value: +2.2. Nasdaq futures vs fair value: +1.3. A slightly higher open is expected. Crude oil hit an all-time high of $119.93 per barrel in overnight trade after BP shut down a North Sea pipeline due to a worker's strike and an attack in Nigeria, according to reports. Crude has since eased a bit, and is currently up 0.5% to $119.07 per barrel.

07:55 am : S&P futures vs fair value: +2.2. Nasdaq futures vs fair value: +1.8. Futures point to a slightly higher open. Microsoft's (MSFT) offer to acquire Yahoo! (YHOO) expired over the weekend, so market participants are speculated what Microsoft's next move will be. Berkshire Hathaway (BRK.A) and Mars Inc. are close to teaming up to acquire William Wrigley Jr. (WWR) for more than $22 billion, according to the Wall Street Journal's sources. In earnings news, Humana (HUM) and Sysco (SYY) reported earnings that beat expectations. Verizon's(VZ) earnings were in-line with estimates.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
21. "But what about the rest of us?"
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/90497280-1472-11dd-a741-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1


Over the past 10 days, Wall Street chiefs have been queuing to announce that for them at least, the worst is over. They could well be right. But what about the rest of us?

The key text here – much quoted of late – is from John Maynard Keynes: “Whilst the weakening of credit is sufficient to bring about a collapse, its strengthening, though a necessary condition of recovery, is not a sufficient condition.” In other words, central banks can fix the credit system, but getting lending back to normal may be another matter.


snip:
This was all to do with the collapse of the shadow banking system – in particular, of off-balance sheet structures designed to hold mortgage-backed securities. As Mr Bond puts it, the banks had outsourced their assets and liabilities. The assets were now coming back on to their books, but the liabilities were not.

This is precisely the problem which the central bank rescues were designed to address. If the banks can swap those assets for Treasuries, then borrow against the Treasuries, they can plug the funding gap themselves.



I still don't think he's really addressing "the rest of us?" You know, the rice-eaters.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #21
55. Unless They Are Retiring With A Couple Billion, They Are Deluding Themselves
Nobody gets out of inflation alive and whole.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
24. Prosecute the Mortgage Sharks
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/26/AR2008042600137.html


"Simply put, that process was broken," Paulson said.

To protect consumers from predatory lending and deceptive disclosure practices, Paulson proposed the creation of a federal Mortgage Origination Commission that would establish minimum standards for loan officers. It would also evaluate, rate and report on each state's efforts to license and regulate these mortgage salespeople.

Sounds impressive, doesn't it?

But based on my investigation of one mortgage operation, which has continued to arrange loans despite state sanctions, what's needed is more criminal prosecution, not another commission with little power. After all, we're talking about loan officers responsible for explaining mortgage products, some of which have complicated terms and high fees, the types of products that have led this nation into its current economic mudslide.


______________

medium length article telling us some details about what it was we already knew.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
30. little change, certainly no bounce, at 10:18
Symbol Last Change Dow 12,897.72 Up 5.86 (0.05%)
Nasdaq 2,428.56 Up 5.63 (0.23%)
S&P 500 1,399.44 Up 1.60 (0.11%)
10-Yr Bond 3.8680% Up 0.0020

NYSE Volume 628,388,750
Nasdaq Volume 293,562,250

10:00 am : The stock market retreats a bit and theny quickly rebounds back to the unchanged mark. The trading action is divided in the early-going, with five of the ten economic sectors in positive territory. Energy (+0.4%) and healthcare (+0.6%) are the best-performing sector in the early-going.

The two most heavily weighted sectors -- financials (-0.7%) and tech (-0.5%) -- are acting as drags on the broader market.
DJ30 +1.87 NASDAQ +1.05 SP500 +0.06 NASDAQ Dec/Adv/Vol 1209/1160/181 mln NYSE Dec/Adv/Vol 1310/1457/141 mln

09:40 am : The stock market opens on a muted note, as it clutches the unchanged mark. This session's market-moving events are relatively light compared to the rest the week, when we will see a barrage of earnings and economic reports.

There were a few merger & acquisition items of note. Privately held snack food company Mars Inc. is going to acquire Chicago-based William Wrigley Jr. (WWY) for roughly $23 billion, or $80 per share in cash. The price represents a 28% premium over Friday's closing level. Warren Buffet said on CNBC that Berkshire Hathaway (BRK.A) will provide $6.5 billion in financing.

In earnings news, Humana (HUM) and Sysco (SYY) topped expectations, while Verizon (VZ) reported in-line earnings.DJ30 +4.15 NASDAQ -2.12 SP500 -0.13 NASDAQ Dec/Adv/Vol 1098/1104/64 mln NYSE Dec/Adv/Vol 1163/1333/64 mln
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
35. Morning Marketeers.....
:donut: and lurkers. It is offical. I am a nationaly certified CRP,AED, and First Aid trainer. I completed the training in DC this last week. I stayed at the Hyatt near the Capital. They were also having the National Conference of State Legislators. I probably bellied up with some of your Reps in the hotel bar. One that sticks out was a Rep. from Illinois. She was really interesting. We talked about history, politics, and Obama.

And speaking of political conversation...I spewed my coffee this morning when they had this sound bite from McCain on the air....

(He criticized Obama for saying that he was open to raising taxes on capital gains, which McCain said would affect the taxes of 100 million Americans who have investments.)

“That means he has no understanding of the economy and that he is totally insensitive to the hopes and dreams and ambitions of 100 million Americans who would be affected by his almost doubling of the capital gains tax,” McCain said.

“He is out of touch with the economy.”

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/04/mccain-twice-ca.html




I seem to remember very recently McCain saying......


“the issue of economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should.”

Trying to explain away McCain’s comment, Douglas Holtz-Eakin, McCain’s senior economic adviser, claimed to ABC News that McCain was merely joking. “He has this wonderful self-deprecating sense of humor and out of his months comes things sometimes like ‘yeah, I’m not that good on the economy’ in an effort to make a small joke,” said Holtz-Eakin. Unfortunately, for Holtz-Eakin, McCain has admitted his lack of econ knowledge on multiple occasions throughout the years.

Sorry I can't remember where on ABC I got that, but try this.....

"At a recent meeting with the Wall Street Journal editorial board, Republican presidential candidate John McCain admitted he “doesn’t really understand economics” and then pointed to his adviser and former Senate colleague, Phil Gramm - whom he had brought with him to the meeting - as the expert he turns to on the subject, The Huffington Post has learned.

Oh boy.

About Phil Gramm, courtesy of the late, much mourned Molly Ivins:
When he ran for president in 1996 and finished fifth in Iowa, all the profiles written of him included the line “Even his friends don’t like him.” Self-righteous and strident, Gramm demonized his opponents and used bitter, polarizing rhetoric. During a Senate debate over Social Security, a member pointed out that the proposal under consideration would hurt 80-year-old retirees. “Most people don’t have the luxury of living to be 80 years old,” Gramm scoffed, “so it’s hard for me to feel sorry for them.” Well, there is that. "

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/22/can-this-be-true/


I think we've had one :dunce: too many. I'm not worried about the need to cut capital gains tax.....I want the budget balanced and the progressive tax reform. Gains should be taxed just like wages. Corperations and the wealthy have been ducking their responsibility as citizens. I am tired of all this 'compassionate conservatism'.

Happy hunting and watch out for the bears


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Morning AnneD...
:hangover:

Yeah! I sprayed my Cheerios when I heard -THAT- one too! :haha: What an McIdjut!
He must -WANT- Obama to win to say something like that...


Congrats on your training! Nice to have you around! :thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. Congrats, AnneD! You GO, girl!!!
No pics yet! :-(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. Compassionate Conservatism:
Conserving Compassion for the Wealthy
(who deserve it more than you do)


Congrats and I hope you had a chance to put lots of liberal bugs in lots of ears.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
47. News from the trenches...err...dumpsters
And so it comes to this. A light-hearted instructional on how to dumpster dive. Not that I think its a bad thing, having eaten 3 course meals a' la dumpster.

But the perception that things are so bad that large numbers of people might need to turn to this and the additional perception that we are so.....sheltered... that we might not be able to figure out that there are vermin in a dumpster....

To be fair, I grew up tromping through the woods and getting into much mischief, so I'll grant that my worldview is, perhaps, skewed.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/olivia-zaleski/the-art-of-dumpster-divin_b_98923.html

I engaged in the country version of dumpster diving today. Looking for flora under the power-line right-of-ways to see what might be transplantable. Otherwise Duke Power dumps a butt-load of chemicals on them to keep them dead and away from their lines (which they refuse to bury because it will "cost too much)

A couple of slow spreading bamboo, some lovely red honeysuckle and 3 knee-high persimmon saplings. If they are root suckers off the nearby tree I've got a female for sure. If they are bird droppings...well, percentages aren't my strong suit, but I'm pretty sure the odds for at least one female are in my favor.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
InkAddict Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. Plant-knapper, LOL n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
48. End of the day
Dow 12,871.75 Down 20.11 (0.16%)
Nasdaq 2,424.40 Up 1.47 (0.06%)
S&P 500 1,396.37 Down 1.47 (0.11%)

10-Yr Bond 3.835% Down 0.031

NYSE Volume 3,557,447,500
Nasdaq Volume 1,783,166,000

4:15 pm : On Monday stocks traded in a tight range on a day with no economic reports and few market-moving headlines. During the trading session the S&P 500 managed to breach the 1400 mark -- considered a key resistance level by technical traders -- but eventually finished the day below that level with a slight loss.

The rest of this week brings a number of trading catalysts, including a barrage of earnings reports, the first quarter GDP reading, the FOMC policy announcement and the monthly jobs report. Considering this, the lack of concerted buying or selling interest and low trading volume on Monday was understandable.

There were, however, a few notable corporate headlines.

Privately held snack food company Mars Inc. is going to acquire Chicago-based William Wrigley Jr. (WWY 76.91, +14.46) for roughly $23 billion, or $80 per share in cash. The price represents a 28% premium over Friday's closing level. Warren Buffet said on CNBC that Berkshire Hathaway (BRK.A 128,460, +1,585) will provide $6.5 billion in financing.

Shares of Ford (F 8.21, +0.71) got a lift on word activist investor Kirk Kerkorian's Tracinda Corp is increasing its 4.7% stake in Ford to 5.7%, according to the Wall Street Journal. Tracinda will be purchasing 20 million shares at a 13% premium.

Earnings reports were relatively light. Humana (HUM 46.38, +1.50) topped expectations by two cents, and issued upside guidance for its second quarter. Food distributor Sysco (SYY 30.50, +2.38) reported a 14% year-over-year increase in earnings per share, beating estimates by a penny. Shares of Verizon (VZ 37.95, +0.91) rose after investors were pleased with the company's growth rate of its FiOS TV service and in-line earnings.

In the end, five of the economic sectors posted a gain. Health care (+0.3%) and consumer staples (+0.2%) posted the largest gains. The materials (-1.2%) and tech (-0.9%) sectors were the main laggards.

In commodity trading, crude oil rallied to a fresh all-time high of $119.93 per barrel in overnight trade on reports of supply disruptions due to attacks in Nigeria and a refinery worker strike in the United Kingdom. Crude prices then retreated a bit, to finish with a more modest gain of 0.2% to $118.77 per barrel.

Tomorrow, the market will be digesting the Conference Board's March consumer confidence reading, and earnings reports from 123 companies.DJ30 -20.11 NASDAQ +1.47 NQ100 +0.2% R2K +0.5% SP400 +0.2% SP500 -1.47 NASDAQ Dec/Adv/Vol 1311/1549/1.75 bln NYSE Dec/Adv/Vol 1313/1794/1.21 bln
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
52. Stock Market Video Technical Analysis 4/28/08
This is not my analysis and always do your own DD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFydKN7zU_I
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 16th 2024, 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC