Obama Forgoes Chance at More Delegates, Looks to Heal Wounds

[Pirate Smile]

Source: The Wall Street Journal

Democratic party rules-committee members said Barack Obama turned down two chances to increase his share of the disputed Florida and Michigan delegates. He instead instructed his supporters on the committee to agree to seating plans for the two states that allowed Hillary Clinton to narrow his lead by perhaps 19 votes, they said.



-snip-
Committee members said there were enough votes to pass a motion splitting the delegation in half — giving each candidate 64 delegates and 32 votes. But they said the Obama campaign, which has long argued for the even split, urged his supporters to drop that plan and vote instead for one that slightly benefited Clinton.

Committee members said the Obama campaign also urged them not to pursue a plan that would have advantaged the Illinois senator in Florida. The issue there was whether to cut the delegation in half, or to allow a full delegation to attend the convention with members getting a half-vote each.
Under the half-vote plan agreed to by the committee, Clinton gets 19 more votes than does Obama — 52.5 to 33.5 votes. Under the half-delegation plan, she would have netted six votes more than Obama because of complicated proportional representation rules.

Committee members said the Obama campaign instructed them not to pursue the half-delegation option.
To put those 19 votes in perspective: Clinton also netted a combined 19 delegates from her big wins over Obama in Ohio in March and Pennsylvania in April.



Read more: http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/05/31/obama-forgoes-chance-at-more-delegates-looks-to-heal-wounds/

---

Gracious and classy as usual.

[polichick]

1. Considering everything she's done, that's amazing!

[virtualobserver]

2. Ickes obviously knew this when he went on his rant.......and didn't care

Hillary's way or the highway.

Don Fowler was clearly influenced by it, however

[gaiilonfong]

4. Ickes DLC decrepit Dinosaur

nuff'said

[Tippy]

163. And we know what happened to the Dinosaur's...n/t

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

33. Sadly he claims he was speaking with HER authority

It is so shameful when your spokesperson demonstrates his weak, childish, assinine vocabulary to the world.

Yes, Senator Obama continues to be a class act no matter what is thrown at him - kitchen sinks, bathroom sinks, toilets, and in yesterday's case a total toilet-mouth.

Where are the cries of outrage from Hillary and her supporters to "DENOUNCE AND REJECT" the foul-mouthed slime of Herald "ass" Ickles??? Shouldn't they be outraged? Or is this one more example of, "Do as I say, NOT as I do?"

Shameful and childish, and for all the world to see. Some role model.

[ekwhite]

66. I missed what he said that was so foul mouthed

What did he say?

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

73. a loud rant including

"You bet your ass." multiple times to somehow reinforce his weak point.

Maybe appropriate in today's society for a daytime soap actor, but not for the spokesperson of a legitimate Presidential candidate.

[ekwhite]

77. I missed that one

Maybe I'll wait for the dance remix. :evilgrin:

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

98. but THIS is what really cracks me up...

"We are all, I believe, attempting to bring the party together, and when you have that kind of divisive and hateful language, it is counterproductive to those efforts. And we were disappointed about it last night..."

That, of course, was babbling Wolfson, demanding some greater apology from Senator Obama, when a guest preacher spoke in Trinity Church.

Blame Obama for EVERYTHING anyone else does, but in Hilla-land hold Clinton and her paid staff responsible for nothing.

[Zhade]

110. Her supporters ignore the *proven fact* that she's an unrepentant liar.

Of course they're hypocrites about Ickles.

[xioaping]

120. Half the votes being counted. Whose votes did not count?

I vote for Obama but I still have to wonder why only half votes are counting. Whose votes do they say do not count in Florida and Michigan? This sounds very funny.

[Igel]

139. Half of each delegate's vote counts.

Half of each delegate's does not count. The quantification applies to individuals, not to a group, and to delegates (who vote at the convention), not to voters in the primaries. And it's not that there's a specific half of votes being disposed; it's a mathematical operation that's approved, if you want to look at it that way, not the group of voters or delegates.

No disposing of votes. The proportion of delegates' votes that each candidate gets remains the same; however, compared to what other states get, the value is halved.

[dkf]

3. Obama trying to be nice, but Hillary doesn't care.

I hope more stories like this get out because Hillary is trying to paint it like he is a monster or something. Its a joke.

[polichick]

5. Barack is a better man than I am...

...he'll probably offer her a cabinet position ~ and I'd just be glad to get as far away from her and her ilk as possible.

[jwirr]

44. Has she vacated her Senate seat?

[polichick]

122. You don't think she'd give up her Senate seat for a Cabinet position?

[jwirr]

143. I am not sure I want her to. I would rather have her than some pug

appointed by a Governor. We keep mentioning sitting Congresspersons for the cabinet but we are forgetting that we want both houses to be full of people who will help bring about change. FDR had to fight congress all the way. I would like to see that avoided. However, if we are sure of getting someone like Robert Kennedy Jr. in then that is a different story.

[polichick]

135. Actually, I think Bobby Kennedy Jr. would like a shot at that seat.

[jwirr]

142. Now that I like. He is great.

[salguine]

6. Could it be that Obama cares about other things bigger than himself?

[electron_blue]

11. It's a smart move. It's not that he's being so gracious bcs he's a wonderful man,

but he has the lead and will *still* have the lead after this. And when you're in the lead you can afford to make concessions like this that make you look like you're doing the better thing. It's a smart move because of the fact that agreeing to this will significantly help *him* win the nomination. Like giving up a bishop graciously when you know you have a checkmate set up for your opponent.

[Frances]

16. Thanks so much for such an intelligent analysis

Obama will be a good President because he's a good man--and because he is astute politically.

[mac2]

32. We deserve better and yet you think a globalist is OK

A good President. Open the borders, remove our laws, give amnesty to any criminal or terrorist from all over the world? Police Iraq even if foreign countries are buying the public resources, etc.

We have huge debt yet they add more.

[uberllama42]

74. What are you talking about? n/t

[ExPatLeftist]

78. Cannot for the life of me figure out what you are on about... n/t

[CANDO]

87. Hello, is there anybody in there?

Knock, knock? Globalist? Open borders? Remove laws? Amnesty to criminals and terrorists? You certainly must be talking about the current regime, correct? Do you take pharmaceuticals?

[madrchsod]

100. vote for ron paul...he`s against everything you said

[tekisui]

116. Who is "they"?

[DWilliamsamh]

125. What in god's name are you talking about??!!??

[salguine]

29. I don't disagree. But

if the right thing had been done—the REAL right thing—none of those delegates would have been seated at all. As Mr. Wonka said, "You stole fizzy lifting drinks, you get nothing...good DAY, sir." Obama would have been right if he had protested the seating of any of the delegates. He's the one who stuck to his original agreement.

[electron_blue]

136. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply it was "right" as in morally right, it is "right" in that it will help

him win. This really is all about winning the nom w/o damaging one's image.

[Raksha]

126. Exactly! Those 19 votes aren't a sacrifice,

but an investment that will pay off for him. Brilliant move!

Re he has the lead and will *still* have the lead after this. And when you're in the lead you can afford to make concessions like this that make you look like you're doing the better thing. It's a smart move because of the fact that agreeing to this will significantly help *him* win the nomination. Like giving up a bishop graciously when you know you have a checkmate set up for your opponent.

[Igel]

141. Of course.

It could have been decided months ago, but that would have entailed the possibility of risk.

It's like knocking a homerun out of the park, and then leisurely giving the opposite team time to tag you out. Of course, the ball's out of the park, so that's not going to happen. Seldom is that considered greatness of spirit. It's a victory lap and gives time for your picture to be taken. It makes you feel good and provides PR (which makes you feel good).

Risk-free concessions are cheap, and only the foolish take them as a sign of greatness. When you make a promise or grant a concession that might hurt you, and then stick by it, *that* shows a greatness of character.

Perhaps like public campaign funding. But that would not be astute, in a Chi-pol sort of way, and might risk something important.

Instead, we go with "astuteness" defined as "what any hack politician would do", and think it greatness because it's sanctified by the Obama. It makes greatness cheap, something you have to lower yourself to achieve.

[Zhade]

144. Considering it was completely in his right not to support ANY compromise, he did a great thing.

FL and MI didn't deserve ANY leniency after breaking the rules, IMHO.

[axollot]

157. You said it exactly like I was thinking it...I'm a FL resident too...

So *having* or *not having* your vote count in anyway is really annoying.....anyway..that's another thread...

However, I do think it's a nice political move, within the party to help heal the wounds that are out there.

Cheers
Sandy

[Shakespeare]

26. He has continually taken the high road during this election.

It's one of the things I most admire about the way his campaign has been run.

[IndyOp]

7. Wexler's comment that 19 = Clinton's net gain from "big wins" in Ohio & Pennsylvania

is walking and talking and singing and hopping right along through the media. Ickes asked Wexler why he thought that Obama agreeing to allow Clinton a net gain of 19 from seating Florida was such a "generous" action and Wexler replied that 19 delegates = what Clinton earned from her "big wins" in Ohio & Pennsylvania - Ickes blanched and got up and left the room very angry. Quite a sound bite yesterday and here it is today in the WSJ.

[populistdriven]

37. lol Ickes blanched and got up and left the room very angry. They hate his graciousness. hahahahaha

[Joe Chi Minh]

68. "19 delegates = what Clinton earned from her "big wins" in Ohio & Pennsylvania."

Is it also possible that Barak has a wicked sense of humour! Not "Double or nothing!" But "Double and you still got nothing!" Maybe Ickes saw that as a twist of the knife! Ever been had... Icky?

[Zhade]

111. Cool - shills for a proven unrepentant race-baiter and liar DESERVE a twist of the knife.

NT!

[SquireJons]

8. What's really sad about this....

... is that so many of Clinton's supporters are showing themselves to be far more loyal to her personally than to the country or the Democratic Party.

"This is not about Barack Obama,” Mr. Dean said. “This is not about Hillary Clinton. This is about our country. This is about restoring America to its greatness, to restoring our moral authority and to healing America at home. That’s what this is about.”

Many of Clinton's supporters couldn't care less.

“McCain in ’08! McCain in ’08!” a woman yelled from the back of the room. “No-bama! No-bama!”


What are we going to do about this? I'm all for big tent and all, but I don't share much with those who will deliberately sell the country down the river over a cult of personality being actively waged by a desperate egomaniac.

Bill's legacy is all but gone, and that is a crime. I guess this was the ultimate way for her to get back at Bill for his philandering. What a bitch.

Personally, I think this campaign will hamper any and all women who may wish to run for president for a generation or two.

[TheDoorbellRang]

9. I don't see that it will hamper women at all

We just need to wait for a woman to run who doesn't feel it's necessary to run with her gender being her top qualification. Sebelius, Napolitano, McCaskill, Pelosi -- there's a long list of women in public office who got where they were on their own merits, not because of their gender or who they were married to. We'll perhaps start seeing women running every four years from here on out and it won't be seen as such a big todo. Clinton accomplished that much.

[ElboRuum]

70. I hope you're right...

I would have liked one of those you mentioned as the first in hindsight. Who knew Hillary would go this route? I hope people don't take exception to what Hillary has done in this campaign as reason not to support a woman candidate.

[SquireJons]

134. Me too

But holding this against the next one is what I fear.

[librechik]

162. as a bitter feminist, I have to say it was inevitable

I don't think women will ever get a fair chance in this country. (Maybe someday, can't see it in my lifetime)

now we've delayed the inevitable discussion another 8 years. (what exactly is Hillary's 35 years of experience at the side of her political man as a political partner worth? Apparently NOTHING, just like being a wife and raising a family. Where's your paycheck, bitch? What you did is not REAL work!)

Can't wait to have that conversation--and why are women paid at 70% of standard wage?

No way. They'd much rather have the race conversation than try to have the equal-rights-for-women talk.

I sometimes think some RWer designed this, to get both the Black Guy and the Chick out of the way, in one cruel racist plunge.

[ExPatLeftist]

82. I agree in principle, and most of those names - but not one...

The idea of Nancy Pelosi as a presidential candidate, at least for me, left the table the moment she pulled impeachment off of it.

[barbtries]

131. as far as i'm concerned

her political career should be over.

[Zhade]

114. Pelosi abdicated her Constitutional duty to check this president's illegal actions.

She'd never get my vote.

Just saying.

[dsomuah]

119. Pelosi can't run for preident

She wasn't born in the United States and as such is constitutionally barred from being president.

[Chulanowa]

140. She was born in Baltimore

Her parents are first-generation immigrants.

[Demit]

18. This campaign will only hamper any woman who runs hers the same way. Which no one would—

or could, for that matter. Hillary is sui generis.

[KSinTX]

35. Indeed she is

Who else would pose as an inevitable woman? No woman is enough of an insider to gain such status.

[SquireJons]

45. I'm not so sure about that

True, many people will judge the next female candidate solely on her qualifications and campaign, but some will remember the way Hillary ran her campaign and say "that's a woman for ya." I know that's sexist. Do you think we don't live in a sexist and racist country? Of course we do. If Obama had run the same kind of campaign that Hillary Clinton has, I think it would have hurt future black candidates in the same way, but he hasn't. So even in he loses, he has enhanced the chances for the next black candidate, just as Hillary is now a hurdle for future women to overcome.

That's just human nature.

[Demit]

84. Nope, can't agree. The 'credit to her gender' argument is the same as the 'credit to his race' one.

—which is the flip side of what you're saying, and no one finds that an acceptable sentiment anymore.

I am not saying there isn't still sexism/racism. But that's not the fault of the campaign Hillary ran. It's the fault of the knuckle-draggers who would've faulted ANY campaign that ANY woman had run.

The next woman to run for president will benefit from Hillary's having run first. The shock of the new is past. Just like it was a HUGE deal in Philadelphia when we had our first black mayor 20 years ago, and this time no one batted an eye. People gradually get used to the new. That too is human nature.

[Zhade]

115. I agree - her lying and race-baiting aren't gender-specific traits.

Only idiots and bigots would tie the two together. Any woman who runs and doesn't turn into a power-hungry unrepentant liar will be leaps and bounds above clinton.

[SquireJons]

133. About those knuckle-dragger's

It's not the progressives that have to change, it is in fact the knuckle dragger's. If it were up to open minded and informed voters, we would have had minorities and women at the highest levels of government and business all along. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

I fear that there will be a backlash against future candidates because of Clinton's bad behavior with these very people. Hell, it's hard to drag them out of the quicksand, and Hillary's pushing them back in.

And no, we can't let them go down, because they will drag us down with them. We are all in this together after all.

[madrchsod]

24. the pot bangers have been offset by

the hundreds of thousand of new voters...

[sniffa]

25. That was Harriet Christian yelling that

She's not going to vote for an inadequate black male.

Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=harriet+christian&search_type=

[jwirr]

50. Wonder how she is feeling this morning with her rant all over the news?

[SquireJons]

52. Judging by many of her supporters...

I think she feels exHillaryated... or something like that.

[barbtries]

27. i disagree

i think this campaign has proven that a woman can be a viable candidate for the presidency and have no doubt that more will be running in the near future. i still may see a woman president before i die. possibly even hillary. just not this time around. this time around, it's obama.

[ekwhite]

72. No, not Hillary

Hopefully this campaign is her last attempt. I couldn't go through another campaign like this one.

[Zhade]

117. It's highly unlikely clinton will ever again see the inside of the White House...

...unless it's on a tour.

Thank goodness for that!

[casus belli]

30. Yeah, I share your disappointment. n/t

[liberalcanuck]

46. "Cult of Personality" - that perfectly captures what's going on here nt

[Diane R]

56. Excellent posts.

[pipi_k]

86. Regarding some of Hillary's supporters selling out...

maybe we'll get a chance to see some character from her once the candidate choosing stuff is done and over with. Hopefully she'll either know, or realize, that some of her supporters are willing to vote for McCain rather than Obama. And hopefully she'll speak to them from a place of reason and sanity, telling them that she's in full support of Obama, and she wants them to follow her lead.

Some of them will...some won't.

The ones who won't...well, what can you do...

If their votes cause the Republicans to win again, it's on their heads and I hope Karma gives them a good kick in the ass. Although I really don't want to believe there are all THAT many sick bastards in the Democratic Party to cause an upset like that.

Anyway, I'm hoping to see the best from Hillary, in the interests of the Party...

[Zhade]

113. On the contrary, it's a welcome sign that bill clinton's undeserved legacy is destroyed.

NAFTA, fuck-the-truly-poor welfare "reform", DADT/DOMA, Telecommunications Act, continued sanctions against Iraq that killed A MILLION IRAQI CHILDREN who did nothing wrong but be born in the wrong country, more nonviolent drug offenders (especially marijuana users, including patients) put in jail (some for LIFE) under his administration - he was no liberal, nor great, president.

He never deserved the accolades he received.

[JeanGrey]

118. I hate to say this folks, but what this is is the ugly face of racism.

I think it is time for us to understand that a huge amount of people in this country are scared shitless that a black man might sit in 1600 PA ave. It doesn't have to do with loving Hillary, it has to do with being scared of Obama. And we can see that racism seeps into EVEN OUR party.

I don't think there are enough of them to stop us.

[FreakinDJ]

10. Most folks DON"T want her and Obama knows that

You can dress her up any way you want and it still don't change the facts.

The MAJORITY of Americans want Obama

[MindMatter]

38. He's offering her more rope

The best way to get the portion of Hillary supporters who are sensible people truly interested in the future of America (and I believe there are some in that camp) is to have Hillary concede and give Obama a strong endorsement.

That evidently is not happening, so the second best way to win over her supporters is to give Hillary more rope to hang herself with. And that's what is happening here.

It is a tragic scene, seeing the destruction of a person like this, but she has really given Obama no good options.

[FreakinDJ]

61. Rumor was - she always was a swinger

[Phred42]

12. Of the two 'remaining' cadidates - Obama is the ONLY Adult

Having said that - There can be TOO MUCH compromising with the twisted and disturbed. Bending over backwards is not a president to set given the Enormous job ahead in cleaning up the mess that the Republicans AND Conservatives have caused over the pat 30 years.
Quite frankly - the Conservatives NEED TO BE CRUSHED, stuffed in a box and put on the shelf for the next few generations, or, until the rest of us can fill the holes they have dug for us.

I'd hate to think Obama is going to compromise THIS much with the Reich.

Sometimes you just have to stomp them into the ground.

[ekwhite]

76. He won't compromise this much

We have already seen him go on the attack against McCain. It is just that the Clinton drama is more interesting to the MSM.
Yesterday's vote was a big win for Obama. By not going for the jugular, as he could have, he has neutralized the Florida - Michigan argument. That was the right way to play this hand.

[FatDave]

79. I don't think it's a fair comparison

This is Obama compromising to try to bring some unity to the Democrats. Just because he'll make concessions to a Democratic primary opponent is no indication he'll do the same for republicans.

[msongs]

13. free donnie mcclurkin cds for everybody nt

[Pirate Smile]

15. You continue to follow the example of your candidate and I'll continue to try to follow the example

of mine. :)

[Jefferson23]

14. Smart move Barrack, as far as the Hillary voters go, I wonder if

they will vote McCain. If they do, I hope they take responsibility for that vote, which equates with a continued stay in Iraq, no change in health care, permanent tax cuts for the wealthiest, the list goes on and on.

[DaveT]

17. Ahem. Good move, but not a nice move.

I am for Obama, and I agree with most of the negative commentary about how the Rodham Clinton campaign has played out. But it is not graciousness that motivated Obama to concede 19 delegates -- it was a cold calculation of how best to win.

In baseball, when you have a big lead in the ninth inning, you will often concede a run to get an out. This deal in Washington yesterday did just that -- it conceded a few delegates in order to cut off HRC's last gasp effort at demogoguery regarding the "right to have your vote counted." It also slammed dunked Hillar's long shot attempt to freeze Obama out of Michigan altogether. She is now out of options, even implausible ones. All she can do now is hope that Obama somehow throws the nomination away.

Here's to the next President of the United States -- I expect him to lead the country with the same combination of cold calculation and the fine talent for appearing gracious and dignified that he showed yesterday.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

20. I am proud of Obama. He has dignity, class and chose to unify

rather than divide.

Here's the bottom line: After all we've been through with eight years of Bushit, if he doesn't get elected, the country doesn't deserve to have him as president.

[Richardo]

43. Nicely put.

I'd rec your post if I could :patriot:

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

104. Thanks, Richardo.

:)

[FlaGranny]

47. Of course. No doubt what made

Mr. "Ickie" so angry. :-)

[Zhade]

145. He had every right to refuse any compromise. It was more than kind to throw her a bone.

NT!

[Vinca]

19. Yeah, right. That's why Harold Ickes was just on MTP whining

about 4 delegates. The only thing that will satisfy the Clinton campaign is a coronation.

[Johnny Noshoes]

53. ..."whining about 4 delegates."

Doesn't it remind you of that pain in the ass kid in school who gets a 98 on a test and whines about the 2 points because he thinks he deserves the 100.

[Vinca]

54. LOL - exactly. And he usually gets his mother to call the teacher. nt

[Frank Booth]

21. Sometimes I worry that Obama is just too nice a person for politics at this level.

Give Hillary an inch and she'll take a yard. And then turn around and blame you for trying to steal that yard from her.

McCain's just as bad.

[Diane R]

59. Don't worry about that...he's nice as a fox. He beat the Clinton machine, didn't he?

[Doctor_J]

22. Good luck with that. Hil is still on the warpath.

For reasons which at this time are beyond comprehension.

[madrchsod]

23. brillant!

i figured he`d offer her more and now that he did she`s the one who acts like she lost.

dam this guy is good....i`m sure there are people in the governments around the world watching him to see how he handles himself....

[NOLALady]

28. He will be studied and copied for years to come.

I'm certain.

[mac2]

34. Ya like Rice and Powell?

[liberalcanuck]

48. What are you implying? nt

[FlaGranny]

49. Meaning?

It sounds like you're talking about color there sir or madam. If you are, there's no room for you around here, because those are three totally different people.

[muryan]

57. I get it, black politicians!

Very pathetic

[William769]

94. Yes it is. Reverse racism is just as bad as racism.

:eyes:

[muryan]

101. There is no such thing as reverse racism

racism is racism, regardless of which way it goes.

[uberllama42]

71. Likewise, I'm interested to know what you meant by that

That was a very unfortunate comment, as I read it. I hope I am wrong.

[NikolaC]

123. ?

Are you feeling well? Maybe you should go and have a nice cup of tea, lie down, rest your (probably) aching head and return to post something legible and not racist nonsense.

[mac2]

31. How about healing the democracy he is supposed to represent?

Give us back our democracy and Constitution. Fair elections without manipulation by the elite?

Heal my democracy is the first thing.

[Honeycombe8]

103. This must be a flame. You can't be serious. Obama had nothing to do with the MI & FL mess.

Those elections were not really elections, since they were not legal, according to co-chair Roosevelt.

According to others, and to common sense, they were basically straw polls or name recognition polls.

Lesser known candidates rely heavily on campaigning to get votes. If a lesser known candidate cannot campaign, it is a given that that candidate will get far fewer votes, if any, than he otherwise would....and Obama's campaigning history shows that, in his case.

It was a given that the name Clinton would win both of those polls.

Not fair at all to the lesser known candidate. He had a good case, a fair argument, for the 50-50 argument. He also had the votes to get it passed.

But for unity, and to get more votes I expect, he opted to go along with the compromise that the MI State Dem. Party proposed and that Ossman proposed for FL.

The rules committee is what it is....a committee given authority by the Democratic Party itself to create rules and enforce them.

No one is forced to belong to the Democratic Party. But if someone wants to benefit from that party, then they must abide by the rules. Otherwise, there would be chaos. MI & FL, for whatever reason, violated the rules. The committee backtracked and took back HALF of the punishment it had previously decreed.

Clinton is very fortunate, indeed. She was handed delegates for doing nothing except having a husband who had been a popular President with the name Clinton. That's why she got most of the votes she got. She was and is the most famous woman in the country. Of course she got a lot of votes in a straw poll against unknown names and "uncommitted." Duh.

Obama is a savvy politician and a class act. Hillary's people won't admit it. But that doesn't mean that it isn't so. It is. Hillary should watch and learn.

[roseBudd]

150. "Fair elections without manipulation by the elite? " and who would that be? Voters with a college

education?

[truthisfreedom]

36. Carefully calculated, brilliant maneuvering. He's demonstrating the tactics he'll use as President.

bushco insists that every win for the US has to be embarrassing and punitive to everyone else.

Obama is showing the adult way of handling differences. Let the other party save face.

[William769]

39. Sure he has, like taking votes he doesn't deserve!

Reminds me of someone in the White House right now. No one twisted his arm to take his name off the ballot but it seems he has no problem taking those delegates. Well thats American politics for you, one piece of shit to follow the piece of shit already there. :eyes:

[SquireJons]

51. Doesn't deserve?

They both agreed to opt out of Florida and Michigan, but now that she's desperate she is going back on her word. What does that say about the kind of President she would make?

No ethics at all. That's what is says.

At every turn, Obama looks sensible and gracious while Hillary looks just the opposite.

[William769]

64. And what does that have to do with Obama getting votes on a ballot he was no on.

Good luck explaining that one. :eyes.

[ExPatLeftist]

83. You seem to forget

That Hillary Clinton should not have been on that ballot either.

And her signature agreeing that NO delegates would be seated from MI and FL.

And her statement that the primary in those states "will not count".

And the fact that Harold Ickes VOTED FOR and PUSHED FOR 100% delegate exclusion in both those states.

Obviously the position of the Clinton camp has changed IMMENSELY (that is, 180°) on this issue in the last 2-3 months.

Tell me, what has changed to make them switch positions so drastically?

[William769]

89. Why should she have not been on the ballot?

Nothing stopped anyone from being on the ballot. The only thing hey couldn't do was campaign.

"And her signature agreeing that NO delegates would be seated from MI and FL." I'll be waiting.


The rest of your post is just well stupid.

[ExPatLeftist]

112. "The rest of your post is just well stupid."

In other words, the TRUTH, and you have no response to it, so you go for a personal attack.

I don't know what grade you are in, but in the adult world such attacks with nothing to back them up count for nothing.

[barbtries]

132. they were losing

and instead of taking the loss, and lessons learned, they started scratching and clawing and doing anything to change the fact that they were losing. but facts are funny things: they do not change.

[muryan]

60. And you are the central authority on this?

How does he not deserve the votes he's getting

[William769]

63. Show me where his name was on the ballot, then I'll show you why he doesn't deserve any votes.

A simpleton can figure out that if your name is not on the ballot, there is no way you can get votes.

[muryan]

69. Then you have an issue with the Michigan Democratic Party

Not the RBC.

Personally I think the issue of voter intent is clear, they wanted to vote for Obama. Michigan was a flawed election so any overly-simplified characterization is inherently flawed as well.

[William769]

80. At least you all are wanting to see the voters intent now. better late than never I guess.

To bad Obama supporters had already run the voters of Florida & Michigan name through the mud. Since you didn't get what you want so now you want the voters intent. How typical.

[sellitman]

88. How about answering post 83 & 85?

Too painful huh?

[William769]

90. Why should I?

Noone is answering my posts. I guess it is to painfull for you all.

[sellitman]

93. Because you have no answer that bears any semblence to the truth.

Because you and your candidate would rather CHEAT than play by the rules. It's why your candidate is going to be out on her ass in November.

[William769]

95. Once again I refer to post #65.

You all get it, you just can't sell it.

[sellitman]

97. Here is your choice for Unity:

Vote Obama or become the problem not the answer.

You want 4 more years of bush....then go spite yourself.

Your choice.

[William769]

99. Hell will freeze over before Obama gets my vote.

Take it for what it's worth. Your right it is my choice. And unlike the DNC, This time my vote will be a full one not just a half one. Just some food for thought.

[sellitman]

102. I guess the last 8 years have been good for you then.

Either that or you are a self hating Democrat.

Either way you are pathetic and not worth any more of my time.

[William769]

124. Guess I must have hit a raw nerve.

To bad you all can't fuck with my vote in the General.

[Zhade]

148. I foresee the banhammer in your future.

You will not be allowed to continue lying about our nominee here.

[Zhade]

147. It's not painful for us at all - WE won. Legitimately.

NT!

[William769]

151. You won?

Funny that your the only one to think so, once again Obama has not hit the magic number. So close but yet so far away.

[Zhade]

146. You lost, lying about how won't make you feel any better.

NT!

[ooglymoogly]

40. Obama is a class act and the real deal.

[Baby Snooks]

41. The High Road and the Low Road

Barack Obama has consistently taken the high road while Hillary Clinton has consistently taken the low road.

That sums up the candidates best. As well as their supporters.

[FlaGranny]

42. I am so happy that

Barack did not go for 50% of Florida votes. I knew he had enough delegates to win anyhow and I think Ickes was royally pissed off that Obama was the nice guy. Ickes would have been a lot less humiliated if he had more ammunition. Obama gave him less. What a difference in the 2 candidates. This Mr. Obama is a smart cookie.

[otohara]

55. OMG He's One of The Good Guys

after all!

Way to GoBama.

[mhoran]

58. There he goes!

Spreading that hatred and disunity again!

[William769]

65. Yep it's called Unity over truth.

Unity over all else and screw the truth.

[ExPatLeftist]

85. The truth? Oh, that Hillary agreed to the rules, then tried to change them after she was losing? n/t

[Willo]

62. Classy of him not to pad his lead unnecessarily.

Your move Hillary.

[William769]

67. Well at least you admit he padded his lead. To bad he did it by cheating.

Thats a start. :applause:

[Willo]

96. What I admitted was that he did NOT pad his lead.

He was well ahead already and could not lose and therefore had no reason to cheat. Spinderella, on the other hand could not win EVEN IF the Committee was willing to lie and cheat with her.

Obama felt no need to rub her face in it and argue against her cheating and lying.

[Zhade]

149. He did not cheat. You are lying.

You lost. Grow the fuck up or move on. You will not be allowed to continue lying about our candidate.

[tomhayes]

75. Breaking news: The same storyline continues at DU

Remember this:

Hillary is a power hungry cheater who will do anything to increase her power.

Obama: So classy no matter what happens.


And never let the story change NO MATTER WHAT!! (althought he is accepting votes from an election where his name did not appear on the ballot. Only one word for that here: magnanimous!)

[William769]

81. See post #65.

[LeFleur1]

91. The Committee

did not ask people to take their names off of the ballot.
Obama did it as a strategic move and it backfired.
People voted for Hillary, no one who "Wanted" to vote for Obama voted for Hillary.
Obama now wants some of the delegates that Hillary won in Michigan.

Yep, real nice, fair candidate. Not.

[William769]

92. It's his MO, just look at his first campaign.

[Willo]

105. Truth is she took a pledge and went back on her word.

Another truth, yet to be told is, who knew what the Michigan votes would have really looked like?

Hillary Clinton was the only name on the ballot, however

30,000+ voted UNCOMMITTED

AND

X number of voters WROTE IN THEIR PREFERRED CANDIDATE'S NAME

AND

There is documented evidence of voters inquiring as to how they could VOTE FOR SOMEONE ELSE (in other words) NOT HILLARY CLINTON

So, the question is:

HOW MANY VOTERS IN MICHIGAN WERE NOT VOTING FOR HILLARY?

I think the Committee knew.

[butterfly77]

106. And how about voters like me who wanted to write-in Obama ..

and they said it would be tossed if I did..

[Willo]

129. What did you end up doing? n/t

[MNBrewer]

155. No. Hillary was the only candidate who DID NOT remove their name.

ALL others did, Hillary LEFT HERS ON the ballot as a strategic move, and it backfired.

[trickyguy]

107. She doesn't deserve jack shit but Obama is a gentleman and a winner. You can't beat that.

[xioaping]

121. But why only half the votes count?

How do they decide whose votes did not count in Florida and Michigan? I'm for Obama but I see trouble with this one. Someone is going to sue over this. You can not just tell someone their vote does not count.

[sofa king]

128. It's in the rules.

Somewhere in the rulebook it says that no more than half of the originally apportioned delegates delegates from stupid states which can't be bothered to follow the other rules may be seated.

The quibble here was in the methodology of cutting those votes in half, by seating the original number of delegates and giving each one a half-vote, or seating half the number of delegates, which somehow turns out to be more complicated than six of one or half a dozen of the other.

Obama, showing what's turning out to be his usual great generosity of spirit as well as an abundance of fairness and confidence, was willing to cut the deck in Sen. Clinton's favor, which is more than he had to do and, as I'll point out next, may be even less fair to everyone who bothered to vote for someone or something other than Sen. Clinton.

As far as counting the votes, keep in mind that most Michiganders and Floridese were aware on their respective voting days that their states had defied the DNC and were unlikely to have their votes fully counted. It was Sen. Clinton who defied the spirit of the rules by putting her name on the ballots there anyway. The people who really got screwed were the people who stayed away from the polls entirely or went to the extra effort to register uncommitted votes, some of which will now be counted in favor of Sen. Clinton when voter intent can quite clearly be interpreted as votes for "anyone but" her.

Similar to voters for John Kerry in Ohio in 2004, those who took the trouble to vote uncommitted had their votes taken away from them and given to the one person they didn't want to get them. And yes, they probably should sue, but it likely won't matter.

[xioaping]

156. Wow, thanks. Great explanation

Much appreciated. That actually makes it very clear. Thanks

[sofa king]

158. You're very welcome.

I hope my explanation is as accurate as it is clear. If it isn't, I hope someone will correct me.

[harun]

137. Nobody's vote counts, except for the delegates (n/t)

[KaptBunnyPants]

154. They lost one half of their votes as a penalty for violating the primary calender.

They were threatened with the loss of all delegates. The RBC was instructed by the national party that they did not have the authority to reinstate more than half of their delegate votes, so this is about as pro-Hillary of a decision as could have rationally have been expected.

[oldskool]

108. Donna Brazil said it best

When you play you play by the rules.And when you change the rules during the middle or end of the game it's called cheating.

[Zhade]

109. Man, he's such a dick!

:sarcasm:

Hopefully this will wake up a few of the clinton fans out there to his decency.

He's damn good. I'm impressed.

[beac]

127. Not sure why, but the first thing that popped into by head when I saw that photo was...

"Who wants ice cream!?"


Maybe because I am hoping that this summer will be about preparing for the sweet taste of victory instead of schoolyard squabbling.

[Gman]

130. Bullshit... Obama didn't look to heal a goddam thing

I wish they'd get off that shit.

[harun]

138. He could have made them stick by the penalty they put in place and had

no delegates count for FL or MI. He would have had a solid case for them to do this in a court of law too.

[Gman]

152. He could have 100% disenfranchised MI and FL voters

instead he chose to screw them by half. What a nice guy, huh? All for unity as long as he wins and screw anyone that gets in his way, including Democratic voters.

[harun]

159. Rules are there to protect the system. Not just to server MI

and FL. It may not be apparent how bad this ruling is now but wait until the next election cycle. More states will now be encouraged to break the rules because special exception was made for FL and MI.

[Gman]

160. More rules to screw the disenfranchised

just what we need.

[Blaq Dem]

153. What's up with the profanity?

[JPZenger]

161. Let's show some restraint against the attacks

By Wed., Obama will probably have the required number of delegates. Please everyone - lets show some restraint and dignity. There is no reason for any gloating when the battle will be over.

Let's all show the same level of dignity that I am sure Obama will show late Tuesday night. He has asked everyone to avoid the negativity. Sometimes we need to turn the other cheek, particularly when hitting back is unnecessary.

[damntexdem]

164. But the heals felt wounded, nevertheless.

And Ickes showed that he is appropriately named: icky Ickes.