US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships

[tpsbmam]

Source: Guardian UK

The United States is operating "floating prisons" to house those arrested in its war on terror, according to human rights lawyers, who claim there has been an attempt to conceal the numbers and whereabouts of detainees.

Details of ships where detainees have been held and sites allegedly being used in countries across the world have been compiled as the debate over detention without trial intensifies on both sides of the Atlantic. The US government was yesterday urged to list the names and whereabouts of all those detained.

Information about the operation of prison ships has emerged through a number of sources, including statements from the US military, the Council of Europe and related parliamentary bodies, and the testimonies of prisoners.

The analysis, due to be published this year by the human rights organisation Reprieve, also claims there have been more than 200 new cases of rendition since 2006, when President George Bush declared that the practice had stopped.
....
According to research carried out by Reprieve, the US may have used as many as 17 ships as "floating prisons" since 2001. Detainees are interrogated aboard the vessels and then rendered to other, often undisclosed, locations, it is claimed.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/02/usa.humanrights

[seemslikeadream]

1. OMG

WHAT ELSE DO WE NOT?

[hisownpetard]

2. KNOW?

[seemslikeadream]

4. LOL!

Thanks for finishing my sentence, I've been spending way to much time listening to georgie

[hisownpetard]

5. Heh heh.

:hi:

[awoke_in_2003]

98. "I've been spending way to much time listening to georgie"

You must stop now, for your own intelligence. Every time I hear him speak, I think of this scene from Billy Madison:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wKjxFJfcrcA

[ruby slippers]

29. Plenty, you would be surprized......

[seemslikeadream]

38. I have something for you ruby slippers

[ruby slippers]

108. oh, how cool.....Thank you, thank you, thank you..............I'll try to get it up as an avatar

when I have a little more time. Thank you, thank you, thank you.....

[Solly Mack]

3. War crime nation

"Ships that are understood to have held prisoners include the USS Bataan"

death keeps marching...

[jimshoes]

6. The Ministry of Skullduggery has gone to great lengths

to see just how far it can actually bend the law without breaking it, the funny thing is once they've gotten to that point, they just keep going.

[Solly Mack]

7. and going and going and going

The article says "interrogated" but I'm betting there was some of that Bushified "enhanced interrogation" taking place, in addition to the beatings the article also mentions

[Ian David]

8. Keelhauling?

Keelhauling
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Keelhauling (Dutch kielhalen, German Kielholen; "to drag along the keel") was a severe form of corporal punishment meted out to sailors at sea.

The sailor was tied to a rope that looped beneath the vessel, thrown overboard on one side of the ship, and dragged under the ship's keel to the other side. As the hull was often covered in barnacles and other marine growth, this could result in cuts and other injuries. This generally happened if the offender was pulled quickly. If pulled slowly, his weight might lower him sufficiently to miss the barnacles but might result in his drowning.

Keelhauling was legally permitted as a punishment in the Dutch Navy. The earliest official mention of keelhauling is a Dutch ordinance of 1560: the practice was not formally abolished until 1853. While not an official punishment, it was reportedly used by some British Royal Navy and merchant marine captains, and has become strongly associated with pirate lore.

More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keelhauling



DUCKING AND KEEL-HAULING


Some of the punishments which were inflicted in days of ore are repulsive to us of the 20th century. One of them was that of "ducking," which was inflicted in different ways and for different offences. In France, for example, at Marseilles and Bordeaux, lewd men and loose women were put in a cage and ducked a number of times in a river or in the sea. In Toulouse, the same punishment was applied to those who "blasphemed the name of God." It was much in use to chastise sailors.

In what was called in France "la cale mouillee" (ducking), the guilty one was tied to a rope which was attached to the end of the cross-trees of the mainmast of a ship, and from that height, he was thrown down overboard. The number of duckings varied with the gravity of the crime or offense; in many countries three duckings were the limit. Sometimes a cannon ball was attached to the feet of the victim which rendered the fall more rapid and more painful.

"La cale seche" (dry-duck) consisted in throwing overboard the guilty one in the same manner as in the previous way, but he was stopped on his way down five or six feet before reaching the water. It was rather a scary tactic for lesser crimes.

As if that was not bad enough, the Dutch invented "keel-hauling" called in France "le supplice de la grande cale," which can be translated as the torture of the grand ducking. The victim would be hauled through the water under the keel of a ship from one side to the other. In more details, the guilty person was tied with a rope around his body, thrown into the water, and each side of the ship sailors in dories, holding each end of the rope, would haul the poor wretch out of the water, give him enough time to take his breath (if he was still alive), and throw him back into the water to be hauled by the sailors on the other side of the ship. This would last as many times as it would have been decided by the captain or those in charge, in accordance to the gravity of the crime. It is easy to understand that two or three of such duckings were more than enough to kill a man.

More:
http://www.geocities.com/heartland/meadows/2700/story52.htm

[Solly Mack]

10. I wouldn't doubt it

No low is too low for the war criminal executive

[NBachers]

28. I Like That -

"The War Criminal President." No better way to sum up is legacy.

[ForeignSpectator]

32. How about "War Criminal Resident"?

That way, you include some more aspects of his "legacy", stolen elections and his residential behavior and conduct on numerous occasions like 9/11, Katrina or the latest tap-dance and chest-bumping...

[mac2]

59. I think that name fits.

[FraDon]

90. Bingo. gwb, WCR

War Criminal pResident

[bdamomma]

52. I hope the International Community is taking notes.

[Usrename]

49. I wonder if that had anything to do with the weak response to Katrina.

If I remember correctly, wasn't the USS Bataan one of the hospital ships that was in the Gulf and did nothing in response to the Katrina horrors? Maybe they had a ship full of "ghost" detainees. That might tend to explain some things.

[mac2]

60. The people who own those prison ships are also responsible.

Owned by Halliburton, British Cruise Lines, etc.?

[Jackpine Radical]

71. Now, THAT is fuckin' irony!

Prisoners on the Bataan.

Bataan was where many US POWs were held & died in WWII.

[Stinky The Clown]

95. Incredible .........

How poetic.

[awoke_in_2003]

99. God, irony is lost on these people. nt

[Fearless]

9. Come on, let's kick this thing, maybe get something contentful on the greatest page

Pro this anti that... it's all not news.

[defendandprotect]

11. Will this nightmare ever end --- ???

I don't know . . was this torture thing intended to make 9 /11 believable . . .
like if they are serious enough to torture people we won't suspect who really did this????

[Beam Me Up]

31. I wonder about that, too

Are they just using them to practice and hone their techniques?

[CJCRANE]

40. That's my thought too.

Also the torture ensures that any information gathered from the suspects is either garbage or inadmissable (hence no way of having a genuine investigation).

[AwakeAtLast]

12. A few leaks in the dam today

a gushing flood in the near future. At least that's what I'm hoping for!!!!


K & R! :kick:

[mac2]

88. The impeachment of Nixon just took a robbery.

[harmonicon]

13. accused?

I thought they'd admitted to holding Jose Padilla on a ship, and even used it as an excuse to keep him from trial. Sure it's awful, but is it news?

[barbtries]

36. i didn't know that

and for me, this was definitely news. in fact it may have been the first time in a year or two that my jaw actually dropped. they have come up with crap i never could have dreamed of. good gawd they need to be gone.

[harmonicon]

50. I guess nothing that the do surprises me at all any more

I haven't been surprised by anything they've done in years. I don't know if I'd be surprised if it came out that they own a private island where they hunt children as game, roast them and eat them.

Maybe I'm wrong about the Padilla thing, since it's been a few years since that was big news, but this sparked something in my mind that made me think about it.... anyone able to clear that up for me?

[mac2]

105. News we can't forget.

[bluesmail]

14. Oil Tanker Condaleeza used as a floating prison.

[SpiralHawk]

33. "As a republicon, I am honored." - Condi

As an American, I am ashamed of and outraged at the perversion republicons have brought upon my nation. - Spiral Hawk

[santamargarita]

15. Eventually, we will find out where the ovens are located too.

Nazi Germany flashback...

[ruby slippers]

30. you got that one right

[mac2]

67. The victims are those who want freedom and democracy.

[ruby slippers]

107. or ones with the wrong last name again.....

[awoke_in_2003]

100. When the death camps were liberated

US generals forced those Germans living around them to walk through them and observe the horror that was done in their name. Unfortanely, Americans will never see the horror. History will eventually repeat itself :(

[MikeNearMcChord]

16. Send this administration to THE HAGUE!!!

This administration is off the chain!

[Whoa_Nelly]

17. 26,000 people without trial in secret prison...information suggests up to 80K 'through the system'

To The Hague with these thugs!! :mad: :nuke: :grr:


From the article:

<snip>
Clive Stafford Smith, Reprieve's legal director, said: "They choose ships to try to keep their misconduct as far as possible from the prying eyes of the media and lawyers. We will eventually reunite these ghost prisoners with their legal rights.

"By its own admission, the US government is currently detaining at least 26,000 people without trial in secret prisons, and information suggests up to 80,000 have been 'through the system' since 2001. The US government must show a commitment to rights and basic humanity by immediately revealing who these people are, where they are, and what has been done to them."

Andrew Tyrie, the Conservative MP who chairs the all-party parliamentary group on extraordinary rendition, called for the US and UK governments to come clean over the holding of detainees.

<snip>
A US navy spokesman, Commander Jeffrey Gordon, told the Guardian: "There are no detention facilities on US navy ships." However, he added that it was a matter of public record that some individuals had been put on ships "for a few days" during what he called the initial days of detention. He declined to comment on reports that US naval vessels stationed in or near Diego Garcia had been used as "prison ships".

<snip>
CIA "black sites" are also believed to have operated in Thailand, Afghanistan, Poland and Romania.

In addition, numerous prisoners have been "extraordinarily rendered" to US allies and are alleged to have been tortured in secret prisons in countries such as Syria, Jordan, Morocco and Egypt.

[weezy2736]

20. Is that how Syria managed to get out of being one of the major targets?

I thought right after we invaded Iraq, we were thinking about turning them into Cambodia 2.0?

[Thothmes]

41. No oil to speak of

[mac2]

61. Not with my tax dollars.

This what happens when Congress gives a criminal like Bush a blank check. Remove them all.

The Secretary of Treasury has to know this is going on. He has allowed Bush to plunder our treasury without Congressional bills, etc. You have to know our whole check and balance thing has failed to protect us. They should be held accountable. This is what we demanded in 2006 after hearing of all the pillaging, etc. in Iraq.

He is a modern day Hitler.

[EFerrari]

18. Reprieve is Clive Stafford Smith's organization.

Go, Clive! Kick their felonious asses!

[hootinholler]

19. Do any of these assholes know that the reason for the no cruel and unusual punishments

In the constitution was partially because of British Prison Ships?

-Hoot

[Pachamama]

27. I never heard of the British Prison Ships...the irony is not lost here..

Hey there Hoot... :hi:

Where can I find more info on these British Prison Ships...I want to learn more...

I feel sick knowing that our government is doing such things....and who knows what else we don't know about.... :puke:

[SpiralHawk]

34. The google is your friend

"More Americans died in British prison ships in New York Harbor than in all the battles of the Revolutionary War..."

http://www.newsday.com/community/guide/lihistory/ny-history-hs425a,0,6698945.story

[hootinholler]

54. SpiralHawk answered your question...

I'm certain there is much we do not yet know.

:hi: back at ya, it's been a while. Hope you and yours are thriving!

Peace,
-Hoot

[Pachamama]

70. Yes, he did...I just figured you would also have as always some interesting facts that don't always

pop up with a google search....as well as interesting commentary and analysis! :)

Since I grew up in Europe, my US history is limited to what I learned many moons ago and what I've learned over the years in reading, but I didn't recall reading about the prison ships and as I just did some research, I was shocked to see how many died - some estimates at over 11,000 which when translated to today's population would amount to over 500,000 dead! I just imagine the founding father's in dealing with the outrage about injustices and unethical actions and wanting to prevent them from ever happening again to the population or being perpetrated by any government established in their names. And then I think of this piece of crap that has been occupying our White House and what he and his administration have done to our constitution and our country and I just feel sick. I knew the founding fathers were spinning in their graves, now I know it must be even more spinning going on than I thought.

Thanks for checking in Hoot! I'm well and so are the Pachababies!

:hi:

[awoke_in_2003]

101. The Star Spangled Banner

was written on one of those British prison ships.

[AzDar]

21. God. Damn.

:kick:

[Peace Patriot]

22. My God, will the horror never end! nt

[Liberty Belle]

23. I've heard we are torturing them on planes flown by US military;

This was told to me by the father of a soldier who was very disturbed at having to participate in this. They were both afraid to have their names published.

If anyone can corroborate this, please post let me know.

[barbtries]

39. my understanding has been

that just the way they transport the prisoners is torturous. they apparently make them fold up with hoods on tied up somewhere inside a huge military aircraft where they cannot move for the duration of the flight. no link, sorry, this is from memory.

[Tab]

79. You mean like this?

And this guy was an American citizen...

[barbtries]

80. i googled it

i do know how to embed the image. that same image you have was on the page where i found this. it may be on a plane.
edited after isaw the picture!

[awoke_in_2003]

102. I don't know what is more disgusting

the way those people are tied up, or the fact that it is juxtapositioned with the flag. To think what that flag used to mean.

[countmyvote4real]

24. To the Hague with US. This is disgusting. n/t

[DemoTex]

25. This is more disturbing than the infamous ships of Poe and Conrad.

The horrors of the Grampus and the corpse ship of Edgar Allan Poe's The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym of Nantucket and the cowardly conduct of the S.S. Patna crew in Joseph Conrad's Lord Jim come immediately to mind.

Bu$hco has, again, transcended the realm of unimaginable literary metaphor. Truth, with Bu$h/Cheney, proves to be much more horrible than fiction.

[LSK]

26. CAN WE MOTHERFUCKING IMPEACH YET?????????????

:grr: :grr: :grr:

[mac2]

62. Maybe we should go after Reid and Pelosi to remove them

if they don't see this is criminal and they signed off on it? Why no impeachment for criminals like Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld? We demand it yet they ignore us so they are part of the problem.

The candidates for office should join us or get out of the kitchen.

They don't have enough votes in Congress to impeach now but when the Republicans back home hear of these ships, etc., they won't be able to keep their own seats let alone protect Bush, Cheney, etc.

Rumsfeld always looked a bit insane to me with him smiling in the wrong place. His smaller military made up of world mercenary forces with our tax dollars. Like they are little kings of the world. Evil kings with little lords in DC.

[Judi Lynn]

35. You recall Richard Nixon, with Kissinger, created the run-up, and execution of the coup in Chile

against the democratically elected Chilean President Salvador Allende, replacing him with uber-monster Augusto Pinochet.

Pinochet had THREE TORTURE SHIPS. Americans who knew about them in the 1970's protested, and in Baltimore, when the big one, the "Grey Lady," the Esmeralda was scheduled to appear on a tour, Americans turned out at the waterfront, and were photographed by U.S. agents as they protested the Esmeralda.

Here's a quick look at the torture ship:

The "Esmeralda" ship, a symbol of criminal impunity in Chile

La Esmeralda: A Reminder of Chile's Past

By Paola Evans

SOURCE: The Human Rights Data Bank - Spring 2001, Vol. 8, No. 1
http://www.hri.ca/tribune/viewArticle.asp?ID=2611

The Chilean ship, La Esmeralda, sailed into the port town of Valparaiso, Chile this past November after completing the Tall Ships 2000 competition. Joining 80 other boats from 25 countries, La Esmeralda began the transatlantic race from the port of Southampton, England. A beautiful four-mastered Chilean naval ship built in 1952 as a navy-training vessel, its Captain, Edmundo Gonzalez, described La Esmeralda as Chile's "greatest icon".

Upon its arrival in Chile, La Esmeralda did not receive the welcome that a great icon deserves. Rather, it was greeted by hundreds of protestors gathered at the docking point forcing the ship to change its original course. This was not the first such instance. La Esmeralda had sailed into protests by Amnesty International and human rights defenders in every port since it left Southampton in April.

The reason for the demonstrations are personified by the condor painted on the side of the ship. Serving as the figurehead, the condor is not only a symbol of the Chilean coat of arms, but also as a reminder of the Condor Plan elaborated by Augusto Pinochet and his fellow military dictators of the Southern Cone countries in the early 1970s. Essentially a systematic attempt at terrorism and repression in Chile, Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay and Argentina, the Condor Plan allowed the use of military intelligence services to eliminate political opponents through kidnapping, disappearances, torture and assassinations. The condor on the ship identifies La Esmeralda as part of the most sinister plan ever implemented in the region. In fact, there are various reports claiming that La Esmeralda, along with ships Lebu and Maipo, was used as a torture chamber during the military regime of Pinochet.

The information distributed by crewmembers along the race failed to mention this background. Including only a short history on Chile and its geography, the navy chose to omit the most vital aspect of Chile's recent past -- Augusto Pinochet's 17-year rule. Perhaps the reason for this oversight was that shortly after Pinochet came to power the Chilean navy made a special contribution to his new military junta by allowing La Esmeralda to be used as a prison and torture chamber. During Pinochet's rule, close to 120 political prisoners were held and interrogated on the boat for more than two weeks without charges or a trial. The prisoners include the former mayor of Valparaiso who described being tied to one of the ship's masts and electrocuted repeatedly, and Michael Woodward, a British-Chilean priest who died as a result of the torture he received on board. Reports from the OAS Inter-American Commission on Human Rights, Amnesty International, the US Senate and the Chilean National Commission on Truth and Reconciliation, all confirm the use of the ship as a torture and detention centre where people were raped, beaten and disfigured. Perhaps the most noteworthy report is that of the Chilean Commission, entitled the Rettig Report. Drafted in 1991, it provides the only official record in Chile that assigns human rights violations to the military government, and confirms that the navy "used the ships Lebu, Maipo and La Esmeralda as prison, interrogatory and/or torture sites in the port of Valparaiso".

The Tall Ships 2000 competition is not the only time that La Esmeralda had been greeted by protests. In 1974, activists in San Francisco succeeded in turning the ship away from its port. In 1976 Baltimore was also the scene of demonstrations by human rights activists, when La Esmeralda participated in Operation Sail's American Bicentennial. In 1986, the boat again participated in a bicentennial, in celebration of the Statue of Liberty. That time it was the US Senate that protested its presence by passing a resolution condemning the ship's participation and calling on Operation Sail to withdraw the invitation. Senator Edward Kennedy stated, "The Statue of Liberty would weep at the sight of La Esmeralda entering the gateway of freedom at New York Harbour".

Nonetheless, the captain of the ship and the rest of the navy firmly deny the allegations, passing them off as lies and accusing the protestors of "living in the past". For many, however, the past is still alive and will never be forgotten. Woodward's sister, Patricia Bennetts, flew from Madrid to protest the Chilean government's use of the ship. Bennetts, along with other human rights activists, demand that the government (who is fully aware of, and has acknowledged the Rettig Report) discontinue its use of the ship as a "floating ambassador". Most important for Bennetts is the need for clarification and admittance by the navy of the events surrounding her brother's death and the hundreds of other tortures, so that those responsible can be brought to justice. Although this will not bring Brother Woodward back, nor erase the memories of those tortured in La Esmeralda, it will be one more step towards achieving justice at a time when Chile is making efforts to overcome the horrors of the Pinochet regime.

http://www.chile-esmeralda.com/documents/la_esmeralda%202001.htm



The English priest tortured to death on La Esmeralda, Michael Woodward

~snip~
The former mayor of Valparaiso, where the ship was stationed, described being tied to one of the ship's masts and subjected repeatedly to electric shock. "I couldn't sleep for six days because they woke me up every six minutes, night and day," he told Amnesty International. "We could hear how the others were tortured right where we were."

According to a Chilean lawyer held on board, military officials stripped and savagely beat the prisoners and shot them with high-pressure jets of water that produced "an unbearable pain in the head, ears, eyes, and lungs" At least one of those tortured on board La Esmeralda, a British-Chilean priest named Michael Woodward, died as a result. His body was thrown into an unmarked mass grave.

In the past, La Esmeralda has received angry receptions when it came to the United States:

In 1974, the Longshoreman's Union and other protesters succeeded in turning La Esmeralda away from the San Francisco port.

In 1976, when the ship traveled to Baltimore as part of Operation Sail's American Bicentennial celebration, local human rights activists greeted it with strong protests.

http://www.chile-esmeralda.com/history/2000/baltimore_2000.htm



Esmeralda

Published on Sunday, June 18, 2000 in the Baltimore Sun
La Esmeralda: This Tall Ship Has A Bloody, Brutal History
by Stacie Jonas and Sarah Anderson

TALL SHIPS FROM around the world are scheduled to sail into Baltimore's Inner Harbor on Friday for what organizers are touting as an event to promote "cultural exchange and good will."
The ships will surely be a majestic sight. But behind the stately image of one of these ships, La Esmeralda, lies a terrifying history that should not be forgotten.

In 1973, in the aftermath of a bloody coup against the democratically elected government, the Chilean Navy made a special contribution to the new military junta led by Gen. Augusto Pinochet. They allowed La Esmeralda, a four-masted Chilean naval ship, to be used as a prison and torture chamber. According to testimony collected by Amnesty International and the Organization of American States, at least 110 political prisoners - 70 men and 40 women - were interrogated aboard the ship for more than two weeks without charges or trial.

The former mayor of Valparaiso, where the ship was stationed, described being tied to one of the ship's masts and subjected repeatedly to electric shock. "I couldn't sleep for six days because they woke me up every six minutes, night and day," he told Amnesty International. "We could hear how the others were tortured right where we were."

According to a Chilean lawyer held on board, military officials stripped and savagely beat the prisoners and shot them with high-pressure jets of water that produced "an unbearable pain in the head, ears, eyes, and lungs" At least one of those tortured on board La Esmeralda, a British-Chilean priest named Michael Woodward, died as a result. His body was thrown into an unmarked mass grave.

In the past, La Esmeralda has received angry receptions when it came to the United States:

• In 1974, the Longshoreman's Union and other protesters succeeded in turning La Esmeralda away from the San Francisco port.
  
  
• In 1976, when the ship traveled to Baltimore as part of Operation Sail's American Bicentennial celebration, local human rights activists greeted it with strong protests.
  
  
• Undeterred, La Esmeralda returned in 1986 for the Bicentennial celebration of the Statue of Liberty. This time, the U.S. Senate passed a resolution condemning the ship's participation and called on Operation Sail to withdraw the invitation. Sen. Edward Kennedy, a Massachusetts Democrat, said that "the Statue of Liberty would weep at the sight of La Esmeralda entering the gateway of freedom at New York Harbor.

http://www.commondreams.org/views/061800-103.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Look how far we've come since the bloody, Nixon-supported butcher Pinochet's reign of terror.

On edit, to refresh memory for people who've forgotten Nixon's part in Pinochet's overthrow of Chile's government:

Chile and the United States:
Declassified Documents Relating to the Military Coup, September 11, 1973
by Peter Kornbluh

September 11, 1998 marks the twenty-fifth anniversary of the military coup led by General Augusto Pinochet. The violent overthrow of the democratically-elected Popular Unity government of Salvador Allende changed the course of the country that Chilean poet Pablo Neruda described as "a long petal of sea, wine and snow"; because of CIA covert intervention in Chile, and the repressive character of General Pinochet's rule, the coup became the most notorious military takeover in the annals of Latin American history.

Revelations that President Richard Nixon had ordered the CIA to "make the economy scream" in Chile to "prevent Allende from coming to power or to unseat him," prompted a major scandal in the mid-1970s, and a major investigation by the U.S. Senate. Since the coup, however, few U.S. documents relating to Chile have been actually declassified- -until recently. Through Freedom of Information Act requests, and other avenues of declassification, the National Security Archive has been able to compile a collection of declassified records that shed light on events in Chile between 1970 and 1976.

These documents include:

** Cables written by U.S. Ambassador Edward Korry after Allende's election, detailing conversations with President Eduardo Frei on how to block the president-elect from being inaugurated. The cables contain detailed descriptions and opinions on the various political forces in Chile, including the Chilean military, the Christian Democrat Party, and the U.S. business community.

** CIA memoranda and reports on "Project FUBELT"--the codename for covert operations to promote a military coup and undermine Allende's government. The documents, including minutes of meetings between Henry Kissinger and CIA officials, CIA cables to its Santiago station, and summaries of covert action in 1970, provide a clear paper trail to the decisions and operations against Allende's government

** National Security Council strategy papers which record efforts to "destabilize" Chile economically, and isolate Allende's government diplomatically, between 1970 and 1973.

** State Department and NSC memoranda and cables after the coup, providing evidence of human rights atrocities under the new military regime led by General Pinochet.

** FBI documents on Operation Condor--the state-sponsored terrorism of the Chilean secret police, DINA. The documents, including summaries of prison letters written by DINA agent Michael Townley, provide evidence on the carbombing assassination of Orlando Letelier and Ronni Moffitt in Washington D.C., and the murder of Chilean General Carlos Prats and his wife in Buenos Aires, among other operations.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB8/nsaebb8i.htm

[Eagle_Eye]

37. I wonder what defense contractor is running this operation

Blackwater
Halliburton
KBR
Carlyle Group

or maybe some organization we have never heard of.

[mac2]

64. Whose log has a record of the owner, contents, etc.?

As a great-grand child of a former ship captain, I know they have to keep these things in international waters, etc. Laws have been broken and prisoners lives violated.

They hide the ones who have knowledge and they used in the past. You can bet it is also bribery and profit for the other country leaders.

The Bush crime family are full of Ponzi schemes.

Read: The Conspirators by Al Martin.

[Supersedeas]

78. Condi has her favorite cronyism -- where is our Secretary of Diplomacy?

[Beam Me Up]

42. US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships

Source: guardian.co.uk

The United States is operating "floating prisons" to house those arrested in its war on terror, according to human rights lawyers, who claim there has been an attempt to conceal the numbers and whereabouts of detainees.

Details of ships where detainees have been held and sites allegedly being used in countries across the world have been compiled as the debate over detention without trial intensifies on both sides of the Atlantic. The US government was yesterday urged to list the names and whereabouts of all those detained.

Information about the operation of prison ships has emerged through a number of sources, including statements from the US military, the Council of Europe and related parliamentary bodies, and the testimonies of prisoners.

The analysis, due to be published this year by the human rights organisation Reprieve, also claims there have been more than 200 new cases of rendition since 2006, when President George Bush declared that the practice had stopped.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/02/usa.humanrights

---

Damn. Sorry, I see now this is a dupe. Please lock or delete.

[SpiralHawk]

43. "I told you I would bring New Ideas to government. Smirk." - Commander AWOL

"I thought we should try fear, secrecy, and brutality -- but of course all done in the name of so-called patriotism and Gawd. Smirk."

- Commander AWOL

[panzerfaust]

47. The Navy HAS been doing its part in the

war on the world of sanity.

Proud to be 'Mericn, by god.

[democrank]

44. Great. A war criminal with secret prison ships.

How far we have fallen.

[izzie]

48. Where can Bush's mind be? This stuff is so crazy.

--

[bdamomma]

53. Cheney is also involved in this.

[Marie26]

74. Don't forget the secret CIA prisons in Eastern Europe

We never heard much more about that, either. They must still be in operation, right?

[glowing]

45. We have brought back slave ships.. what the fuck

[glowing]

46. Think of Stewart's impression of Bush, while you read the next excerpt..

"See, see, if we aren't on land, he, he, we can't get caught, he, he" "no ties to the country and law, see, see, he, he.

[paparush]

55. Bush - Master of Maritime Law.

Sees himself as Master and Commander.
Never stopped laughing at the "lesser of two weevils" joke.

[bdamomma]

51. inhumane crimes of these thugs never stop

leave it to the UK Guardian to tell us this.

[peacetalksforall]

56. Floating around in International and soverign waters. Don't be surprised if

we learn it is with the complicity of coalition partners. "We're yanking our soldiers, but you can refuel by sea or air in our country and ww'll provide x amount of provisions if we get a special price on the oil you have in Alaska and any new discoveries".

Co-alition has come to mean co-hating; co-superiority.

[mac2]

57. World Order Government prison ship.

Brings new meaning to "piracy".

International ships might be illegal under the UN.

Yet they won't impeach! They have volumes of criminal torture and conspiracy against these Neo Cons. The Hague should try this problem. We still have laws regardless of where it is.

The Bush crime gang is more about fear than anything. You wonder why we can't get anything done by this Congress and in DC.

Problem is they join the secret groups and protect the criminals for power. It violates our Constitution and Bill of Rights. This is why we have the Logan Act in the first place.

Our democracy is failing because we have become lawless. As I stated previously on this site, it's not the political philosophy but the power abuse at the top. Call it what you want but it won't work for the people(Socialistic, Democratic, Communist, Monarchy, Theocratic, etc.).

[mac2]

85. Is this why many returing military men are having mental

problems. They've been sworn to secrecy and even threatened?

They did that to the Navy men attacked on the USS Liberty.

[JPZenger]

58. British Prison Ships Killed 2X as Many Americans as Combat

http://www.newsday.com/community/guide/lihistory/ny-history-hs425a,0,6698945.story

The above link describes the many inhumane prison ships that the British anchored in the New York Harbor during the Revolutionary War. It is estimated that twice as many Americans (9,000) died on these prison ships as died in combat during the war. The worst was the HMS Jersey.

[mac2]

65. As far as I'm concerned the British royals and elite are

still trying to get back America and ruin our democracy. The Queen knighted Reagan for him making her rich with our resources. She knighted Rudy G.for his involvement in 911 and giving her back her Commonwealth which was ready to dump her.

With our money in British off shore banks (Cayman Islands, etc.) they take our wealth. I think we should have American off shore banks for their corporations who want to avoid taxes. We sure could use the money.

The British people are our friends not the elite. Most the powerful people in those secret groups (Bilderberg Group, GE 8, etc.)are European royals wanting their power back. Our "economic royals" let them.

[Turbineguy]

68. Let's hope we haven't

forgotten the lessons of World War One.

As for offshore banks, the US could put them out of business tomorrow.

The Bilderburg group was originaly founded to prevent the rise of another Hitler. Unfortunately..... the Bush's are members.

[mac2]

83. Kissenger and David Rockefeller don't seem to remember that.

It is an illegal organization whose membership for Americans is illegal under the Logan Act.

[Turbineguy]

63. USS Bataan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Bataan_(LHD-5)

[mac2]

66. Thanks for the information.

I knew Blackwater was in NO not for help or civil order but to shoot and jail as many as they could. The African Americans of that city know how to protect themseles and not as many died as could have.

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfled, and FEMA head Brown and Chernoff should have been jailed at that time of treason.

The country and world looked on in horror while our Congress vacationed. A disaster couldn't bring them back to help the people. Just like 911 when they all disappeared for days. Yet...we want to re-elect them?

[Alcibiades]

69. And so we come full circle

During our Revolutionary War, British ships (obsolete vessels dubbed "hulks" at the time) were anchored off of New York and used for the detention of POWs, privateers and others. The diseased conditions, overcrowding and lack of food and water made these ships a death sentence for 10,000 American patriots. Except for those lucky enough to be released in exchanges or to escape, there was little hope.

General Washington himself complained of conditions aboard the hulks in a letter to General Lord William Howe, commander of the British forces: "You may call us rebels, and say that we deserve no better treatment. But, remember, my Lord, that supposing us rebels, we still have feelings as keen and sensible as loyalists, and will, if forced to it, most assuredly retaliate upon those upon whom we look as the unjust invaders of our rights, liberties and properties." These and the many other abuses heaped upon us by the British were the rationale for our many constitutional protections for the accused and dissenters.

As more than a few have noted here, it is a further irony that one of the ships being used for this purpose apparently is the USS Bataan, a ship named to commemorate the Battle of Bataan, the loss of which was followed by atrocities perpetrated against US prisoners by the Japanese in the infamous "Bataan Death March." If we are beating people aboard the Bataan, that's something every American should be concerned about, because it tarnished the legacy of heroism the name of that ship is supposed to commemorate, and makes a mockery of the principles of the rule of law in wartime.

[mac2]

84. We are now them.

[windoe]

72. My god what will it take to get these guys to trial

if now isn't the time, when will that be? I am actually feeling sick over the news lately, it is just me?

[barbtries]

81. not just you

[mac2]

89. I've been feeling that since 2000.

This stress takes its toll. Try to get some way of relaxing. Turn off those talk shows and entertainment news.

I use the Internet for my news.

[Marie26]

73. Hasn't this been reported before? nt

[Lars39]

75. I thought it had, too.

[mac2]

91. Well it's great that some one is talking about it once again.

[Solon]

76. What the fuck? Are we imitating Pinochet's former government now?

We really are a third world right wing junta.

[Judi Lynn]

94. Officially kicked off with the bombing of the Presidential Palace, September 11, 1973.

From Wikipedia, on US participation (through Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford) in Chile's 9-11:

State Terrorism
Main article: Allegations of state terrorism by the United States
The United States has also been accused of State Terrorism as a result of involvement in the coup against Salvador Allende, in which it has been claimed that the US was "intimately involved."<37> Prof. Stohl writes, "In addition to nonterroristic strategies...the United States embarked on a program to create economic and political chaos in Chile...After the failure to prevent Allende from taking office, efforts shifted to obtaining his removal." Money authorized for the CIA to destabilize Chilean society, included, "financing and assisting opposition groups and right-wing terrorist paramilitary groups such as Patria y Libertad ("Fatherland and Liberty")."

Professor Gareau, writes on the subject: "Washington's training of thousands of military personnel from Chile who later committed state terrorism again makes Washington eligible for the charge of accessory before the fact to state terrorism. The CIA's close relationship during the height of the terror to Contreras, Chile's chief terrorist (with the possible exception of Pinochet himself), lays Washington open to the charge of accessory during the fact." Gareau argues that the fuller extend involved the US taking charge of coordinating counterinsurgency efforts between all Latin American countries. He writes, "Washington's service as the overall coordinator of state terrorism in Latin America demonstrates the enthusiasm with which Washington played its role as an accomplice to state terrorism in the region. It was not a reluctant player. Rather it not only trained Latin American governments in terrorism and financed the means to commit terrorism; it also encouraged them to apply the lessons learned to put down what it called “the communist threat.” Its enthusiasm extended to coordinating efforts to apprehend those wanted by terrorist states who had fled to other countries in the region....The evidence available leads to the conclusion that Washington's influence over the decision to commit these acts was considerable."<38>"Given that they knew about the terrorism of this regime, what did the elites in Washington during the Nixon and Ford administrations do about it? The elites in Washington reacted by increasing U.S. military assistance and sales to the state terrorists, by covering up their terrorism, by urging U.S. diplomats to do so also, and by assuring the terrorists of their support, thereby becoming accessories to state terrorism before, during, and after the fact." <39>

Scholars have written on Chile as an example of State Terrorism of a very open kind that did not attempt a façade of civilian governance, and that had a "September 11th effect" through the hemisphere. Professor of History Thomas Wright, argues that "unlike their Brazilian counterparts, they did not embrace state terrorism as a last recourse; they launched a wave of terrorism on the day of the coup. In contrast to the Brazilians and Uruguayans, the Chileans were very public about their objectives and their methods; there was nothing subtle about rounding up thousands of prisoners, the extensive use of torture, executions following sham court-marshal, and shootings in cold blood. After the initial wave of open terrorism, the Chilean armed forces constructed a sophisticated apparatus for the secret application of state terrorism that lasted until the dictatorship’s end...The impact of the Chilean coup reached far beyond the country’s borders. Through their aid in the overthrow of Allende and their support of the Pinochet dictatorship, President Richard Nixon and his national security adviser, Henry Kissinger, sent a clear signal to all of Latin America that anti-revolutionary regimes employing repression, even state terrorism, could count on the support of the United States. The U.S. government in effect, gave a green light to Latin America’s right wing and its armed forces to eradicate the left and use repression to erase the advances that workers - and in some countries, campesinos - had made through decades of struggle. This “Septmember 11 effect” was soon felt around the hemisphere.” <40>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d'%C3%A9tat

[L. Coyote]

96. You don't imitate your puppet!! Your puppet imitates you.

George Bush Sr. May Face Charges: Conspiring to Kidnap and Murder Political Activists
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2459135

[The Stranger]

77. Can we impeach the Nancy Disaster so impeachment of the criminal in chief to go forward?

[mac2]

82. How about it California?

[FraDon]

86. chickenhawks come home to roost

It's happened again:
impeachable offenses.
Where's the damned outrage?

"I wasn't involved."
"You'll find no politics here!"
"I just don't recall."

Just preposterous!
You've engineered the whole plan,
lying all the way.

So, what time is it?
Accountability time.
No justice, no peace.

It's rule-of-law time.
Chickenhawks come home to roost.
Feathers soon to fly.

∆

http://haikuruminations.blogspot.com/2007/03/chickenhawks-come-home-to-roost.html

[Maine-ah]

87. jfc

k&r

[galledgoblin]

92. subject line censored for decency

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST WHY THE FUCKING HELL HAVEN'T WE ARRESTED THESE VILE SHITS YET?!


6 more months, if impeachment proceedings are too late in the game, how about plain ol' CRIMINAL CHARGES and INDICTMENTS FROM THE HAGUE?!

[billyoc]

93. I know that there was a time when I would have laughed at a report like that and dismissed it.

But I can't remember when that time was.

[Seabiscuit]

97. The United War Criminals of America.

That's what we've become. And every last Congressman, Senator and media organization is complicit in these war crimes for allowing them to happen without doing a damned thing about it.

I've never been more mortified to be a citizen of this filthy, wretched excuse for a country than I am today.

[pleah]

103. It just never stops with these evil bastards.

:grr:

[mac2]

104. Like bad pennies they keep going in and out of government.

We should divert their path to prison or we will become 3rd world for sure.

[Supersedeas]

106. the head of the U.S. Dept of Justice is really mucking it up

[Judi Lynn]

109. Torture Ship is Chile’s Brand Ambassador

Torture Ship is Chile’s Brand Ambassador
June 05, 2008 By Supriyo Chatterjee

The U.S. Navy is certainly not the first to torture prisoners aboard its ships. It was beaten to that moral wasteland by Pinochet's Chile and the obscenity is that the graceful tall ship, La Esmeralda, known affectionately as the White Lady, once a torture centre in Valparaiso, is now the country's floating ambassador. Having just set out on its 54th round the world voyage this year, it will call at ports like Haifa (Israel), Alexandria (Egypt) and Cochin (India) with a crew that for the first time includes Bolivian personnel.

The Chilean Navy was the advance guard of Pinochet's coup. Soon after the overthrow of the Allende government, naval patrols began scouring the streets of Pablo Neruda's beloved Valparaiso, asking people, whose names were read over loudspeakers or on the radio, to hand in themselves. Among them was the Anglo-Chilean worker priest, Father Michael Woodward. At first Woodward fled to a friend's house but returned to his own - which he had himself built - in the working class district of Cerro Placeres after a few days, saying he had nothing to hide. He dismissed the idea of taking help from the British authorities.

Father Woodward was arrested at his home by a naval patrol and taken to the headquarters of the local Carabineros, Chile's notoriously brutal armed police, where he was badly assaulted. He was transferred to a cargo ship, Lebu, commandeered by the Navy as a holding vessel for the prisoners at Valparaiso and then to La Esmeralda where he was tortured. Close to death, he was taken in an ambulance to the Navy hospital but died en route. The hospital doctors made the risible claim he had died of a heart attack on public highway.

The Navy refused the church's request that Father Woodward be given a burial. His body was dumped at a mass grave on the edge of the Playa Ancha cemetery in the city. Later that part of the cemetery was built over, allegedly as part of a road building programme, and many bodies were tipped over to the Pacific at that time or burnt by acid by the Carabineros. His remains have never been located.

More:
http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/17840

[djp2]

110. Why has this dropped off the radar?

What is happening about this, more of the same. Habeus Corpus applies to these people, too. First we have to know about them, who they are, where they are!!!1

[Judi Lynn]

111. Thanks for the reminder. They've gone to great lengths to conceal the truth about it, and it should

NEVER be forgotten until the entire truth is known about what the hell has happened to allow _Bush to do this to ANY people.

From another link:

U.S. Secret Prison Ships Hold Untold Number of Detainees

By J. Valtin
The Public Record
Friday, June 06, 2008

~snip~
While there may be more detainees held in other secret prisons, or Iraqi and Afghani jails and U.S. military and CIA black site prisons, the idea of prisoners held in small holds and cells for an indefinite time, out of sight of land or hope, conjures memories of tryanny that predate the democratic revolutions of the late eighteenth century. Prison ships harken back to the days of the British deportations of convicts to America and Australia, and even earlier, to the slave ships which transported the kidnapped and sold Africans into what was supposed to be eternal servitude. An article at Newsday describes the "wretched prison ships" of the American Revolutionary War (h/t to Edger at Docudharma for this):

More Americans died in British prison ships in New York Harbor than in all the battles of the Revolutionary War.

There were at least 16 of these floating prisons anchored in Wallabout Bay on the East River for most of the war, and they were sinkholes of filth, vermin, infectious disease and despair....

Few aspects of the war were documented as well as life on the prison ships, presumably because the experience, for those who survived, was forever imprinted in their memories.... In 1778, Robert Sheffield of Stonington, Conn., escaped one of these ships, and told his story to the Connecticut Gazette. He was one of 350 men jammed in a small compartment belowdecks.

"Their sickly countenances and ghastly looks were truly horrible," the newspaper wrote on July 10, without identifying the ship. "Some swearing and blaspheming; some crying, praying, and wringing their hands, and stalking about like ghosts; others delirious, raving, and storming; some groaning and dying -- all panting for breath; some dead and corrupting -- air so foul at times that a lamp could not be kept burning, by reason of which the boys were not missed till they had been dead ten days."

http://www.pubrecord.org/index.php?view=article&catid=8%3Acommentary&id=104%3Aus-secret-prison-ships-hold-untold-number-of-detainees&option=com_content&Itemid=11

Welcome to D.U., djp2. :hi: