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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 04:08 AM
Original message
Iran is 'not interested' in nukes
Source: BBC News

Page last updated at 08:46 GMT, Tuesday, 3 June 2008 09:46 UK
Iran is 'not interested' in nukes

Iran's supreme leader has insisted it will continue its nuclear activities for civilian purposes only and will not manufacture nuclear weapons.

"No wise nation would be interested in making a nuclear weapon today. They are against rational thought," said Ayatollah Ali Khamenei in a speech.

The comments come a day after the UN's atomic watchdog urged from Iran "full disclosure" about its atomic work.

Its report said alleged research into warheads was "of serious concern".



Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7432916.stm
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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 04:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. I agree that nukes are "against rational thought" . . .
But I'm far from convinced that Iran would prefer not to have them. Just as during the Cold War only maniacs wanted to use nuclear arsenals, many judged rational by their societies were convinced that their possession made a nation a major player on the world stage. Even countries that had faded from their leading position (UK, France) were nevertheless in the front ranks in large part because they had nukes.

A nuke-armed Iran would *own* the political conversation in the Middle East and exact any terms it wanted from its neighbors. Crazy, yes -- but far from unimaginable that at least some of Iran's leadership would be making such a calculation.
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denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. I tend to agree with you.
After all, Shrub's invasion of Iraq was a wake-up call to every country in the world that did not possess nukes. If Saddam had had nukes, there is no way in the world he would be gone now. No nuclear armed country in the world has ever been invaded, but Shrub's doctrine of 'pre-emptive' war has made it a national imperative for any country that wants to be safe from American invasion to get their hands on nukes.

North Korea has nukes, and we aren't invading them. Pakistan, home to Osama bin Laden, has nukes, and we aren't invading them. But when Afghanistan, which then hosted bin Laden, refused (or was unable) to deliver him up, we invaded Afghanistan. Coincidentally, Afghanistan had no nukes.

I have no clue if Iran, Syria, or Venezuela is actually pursuing a nuclear arms program, but if I was them, I sure as hell would be. It's the only sure way to protect your national sovereignty, when it only takes the word of a dim-witted cowboy to launch an invasion.
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 04:23 AM
Response to Original message
2. Oh well I'm glad we put that to rest.
Don't have to worry about Ol' Iran.
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BunkerHill24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 06:01 AM
Response to Original message
3. Iran isn't interested WMD...neither was Iraq
K&R
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
4. Is "REASON" a fundamental essential factor in Islam? does Reason even mean the same thing Links>>
http://www.answers.com/topic/reason
1. The basis or motive for an action, decision, or conviction. See Usage Note at because, why.

2. A declaration made to explain or justify action, decision, or conviction: inquired about her reason for leaving.

3. An underlying fact or cause that provides logical sense for a premise or occurrence: There is reason to believe that the accused did not commit this crime.

4. The capacity for logical, rational, and analytic thought; intelligence.

5. Good judgment; sound sense.

6. A normal mental state; sanity: He has lost his reason.

7. Logic. A premise, usually the minor premise, of an argument.



Reason and the Enlightenment

The Enlightenment was critical in furthering the process, begun three centuries earlier, that altered the understanding of reason and, by empirically connecting it to nature, established reason as the alternative authority to both Christian revelation and speculative, metaphysical theory. The so-called Age of Reason may thus be described as a methodological revolution that, in effect, redeemed reason's authority by countering rationalism. Reason was set apart from the natural world so that it might observe and know it, and the method of knowing, in turn, was itself key in shaping the world one knew. More completely than before, Enlightenment thinkers separated the natural world, which they could observe, reason about, and know authoritatively, from the supernatural world, of which humans could have no certain knowledge. Authority, based on experience and a reason guided by the senses, was limited—or even, as some claimed, arbitrary—but it had thereby become less susceptible to skepticism.


************************
this is what i found for islam
http://uk.geocities.com/limerickphilos/AVERROES.htm

In defending a consistent Aristotelianism, Averroes is critical of philosophical compromises made in the name of theological orthodoxy. What is most significant about this defence of philosophy is that Averroes defends it through recourse to the Koran. The study of philosophy Averroes argues is imperative according to Islamic doctrine. He begins by defining philosophy as “the investigation of existing entities insofar as they point to the Maker, I mean insofar as they are made, since existing entities exhibit the Maker” (Fakhry, p. 2). He then cites two passages from the Koran, verse 59:2, which urges “people of understanding to reflect” and verse 7:184 which asks “ have they not considered the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and all the things God has created?” (Fakhry Intro to Abrah, . 2). He also importantly distinguishes between two different kinds of passage in scripture; those which the Koran refers to as “unambiguous” (which must be interpreted literally) and those which are “ambiguous” (Fakhry, p. 3), which must be reflected on and interpreted. The Koran refers to the interpretation of ambiguity as “imperative” and also clarifies that this interpretation can be done by “only God and those well-grounded in knowledge” (p. 3). This phrase allows Averroes to introduce his very important distinction between different discourses on truth and interpretation, his so-called three-tiered conception of truth.


http://www.asmabarlas.com/TALKS/Oregon.pdf
My point is that conservatives safeguard dominant readings of the Qur’an (and
thus sexual discrimination), as well as their own authority by moving from text
to tradition to reason without engaging the critiques directed at them and
without opening up text, tradition, or reason themselves to critique.

###############
i find it difficult to locate reason in the Channeling of a personality from the 700's ,who was of questionable mental health by todays standards


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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. It sure isn't an essential factor in christianity.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. it is obvious that Abraham was Schizophrenic only people today who hear god tell them to kill
their are Schizophrenic, it has a genetic factor, Mohamed was related to Abraham.. both hallucinated god and are still screwing up this world, with no end in sight
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. if you read the islamic post he says..para~' in islam what Reason is depends who you are talking to'
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fjc Donating Member (700 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. It used to be, about a thousand years ago.
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MarkR1717 Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. or Communism? nt
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-05-08 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. And especially republicans. nt
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
5. this comment tells it all
"No wise nation would be interested in making a nuclear weapon today.


hmmm....we are not a wise nation.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
9. Like Smirk was not interested in nation building
Unfortunately, as Iraq found out, "Full, open compliance" is not enough to prevent an insane criminal from wiping out your country. Smirk has put nations like this in a difficult position.
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Winterblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
10. Ohhhh Ohhhh the Boogieman has spoken
Everyone is terrified of a Nation that has not threatened anyone in more than a century, but because our Professional LIARS say they are on the verge of attacking America we all tremble in fear and say bad things about them..
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Google "Abu Musa" and "Tunb".
It's a territorial dispute, of which there are fewer and fewer but still a fair number worldwide. But this one involves Iran defending--China-like--what it claims are its rights. It started under the Shah, but the ayatollahs have found nationalistic jingoism to be their forte just as well.

I keep saying that looking at a person's actions when he doesn't have the means to do anything bad is a pointless and trivial exercise. A man with no way to embezzle cannot be said to be above embezzlement. You look at what actions a person can do. Same goes for countries.
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MarkR1717 Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. The Shah never said......
....he wanted Israel destroyed.
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-04-08 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. "bought and sold" translators did.
(for what? oil? domination? oil domination?)
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