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worldgonekrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 05:37 PM
Original message
CNN Breaking: Tape of 9/11 Flight Attendant Reporting Hijacking
No link yet.

The audio tapes were of an airline flight attendant from the first plane that hit the World Trade Centers. The conversation is from when the flight attendant called company headquarters to report the hijacking.

Talks about stabbings...thinks hijackers are in the cockpit...

More to come (hopefully)
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'd rather not
Edited on Tue Jan-27-04 05:38 PM by Jack_Dawson
I'm sure it was horrible - don't really need to replay people's misery.
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SeveneightyWhoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. "don't need to replay people's misery"..
That's the point, isn't it?
Keep people in fear, keep them angry. It's easier to do what you want that way.
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
44. Be afraid, very afraid..purchase at your local Walmart.........
Because you will be safe there. Ignore the man behind the curtain. You are in grave danger!!
Sars
Anthrax
Bird Flu
Terrrraism
Democrats
Ted Kennedy
Socialism
Osama
Saddam
Syria
Trial Lawyers
Syria
Global Warming.............oops, that doesn't exist.
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worldgonekrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. It illuminates more of what really happened on 9/11
In this case, it helps out the "Official story" because it provides clear evidence that there really were hijackers on the plane.

Some have thought that there were no hijackers at all and the whole thing was a military operation by the U.S. gov't to justify the war on terror (this is a MIHOP scenario).

I personally think that the Bush Administration knew it was going to happen and let it happen anyway, which really has no bearing on this particular story.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
49. Well, to play devil's advocate, this doesn't necessarily prove the OS.
That all depends on the autenticity of the tapes. Who authenticates them, etc.

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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #49
72. Exactly, is this the first time anyone has heard about this
Edited on Wed Jan-28-04 02:17 AM by liberalnproud
tape and does the attendant talk about the men being of Arab descent or where they light skinned like say maybe caucasion. Or does she not mention it at all, which would be suspicious, since I think that information would be offered.


On edit: interesting this comes out when the commission is going to ask for 2 more months
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Yes, go back to sleep...
...and don't worry yourself silly. It's all over now, the same guys who failed to stop it in the first place surely won't let it happen again. Or will they? No, no, no, back to sleep now.
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
34. Ummm...we already know what happened
Why relive it? Let their families move on, for chrissakes.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #34
46. You know what happened?!?!?
Please tell us. I have been wracking my brain trying to figure out what happened. I have searched the internet, read the papers, followed the scant investigation, and all this time I only needed to ask you?

Finally, people, we have found someone who knows!! Tell us Jack_Dawson, tell us what really happened on 9/11!
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truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #34
79. we know some of what happened but...
we don't know why NORAD and/or the FAA did not follow established civil defense procedures after the first hijacking was reported. Especially in light of the fact that the White House had been warned previously that Al Qaeda might use hijacked planes as bombs.
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
51. This is actually very, very important.
It shows that it should have been known early on that the planes were hijacked, and makes the actions of the President and his staff all the more suspicious.
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bobbyboucher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #51
65. I'm with ya.
You are not alone.
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dmr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #51
71. Exactly Finnfan
Bush* why don't you answer our questions?

Where were the military planes?
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bif Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'll pass too.
My mind has painted a mental picture anough times. Don't need to hear the actual dialogue.
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. Today's Diversion, Orchestrated By Rove To Divert Attention From NH
eom
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worldgonekrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. If true, media is not biting (yet)
I don't think so though. This came out during the 9/11 panel's "investigation" today. I don't think Rove has enough power to control what info comes out on what day...though you never know.
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Eccho Donating Member (139 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
28. You just knew it was going to be orange alert
or something like this. I've been wondering what was taking so long after David Kay's no WMD's statement. Maybe orange alert is being saved for when the impeach Cheney story gets out a little more.

Damn I have become so cynical. :/
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
52. If anybody bothers to think about it, this is terible for Rove and Bush
See my post above. THEY KNEW IT WAS A HIJACKING FROM THE FIRST PLANE.
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lucky777 Donating Member (298 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. It Sounded Phony. . .
My girlfriend and I just heard it on CNN. You know, it sounded weird. For those who didn't catch it:

It was a tape of flight attendent Betty Ong talking to some man, not clear who. She said that the Number 1 and Number 5 have been stabbed (not clear what that refers to). She seemed calm, and the guy on the other end of the call says to her that he is recording the call. SHe said that the cockpit door was locked and she couldn't get in. Why did the guy say that he was recordinng the call? Why would he say that? Who is he? There was confusion over the flight number: She had to say that they were on Flight 11, when the guy said it was Flight 12, there was some confusion there. She also said, "Boston to LA," why would she need to say that? It was weird. My girlfriend and I thought she had a weird affect.

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worldgonekrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I thought she said "from Los Angeles"
Rather than "to Los Angeles", which seemed odd of course. Given the situation, however, I could see how there might be some slipups.

Of course, you raise an interesting concern. Why is this tape coming out just now, more than two years after the fact? How do we know it is real? If someone were to want to create a fake tape they have certainly had enough time to do so.
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. I want to hear it.
I would not assume this means what you think it does Worldgonecrazy.
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worldgonekrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. What a cryptic statement! Care to explain?
:)

I think you are referring to my saying that it might discount MIHOP...if you are I should point out that I only mean to say it is a blow to MIHOP theory, not that it disproves it.
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. Ms. Ong was alluding to flight staff (#1 and #5) she referred to herself
as the #3. I assume this is the seniority order on a flight attendant team. The reference "Boston to LA" seemed straight forward, as was the confusion about flight # in a three way conversation.

What I found interesting was the cut out after Ms Ong asked "Who have you called" to the ground contact.

(hope I have her name right....)
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DODI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Number 1 and 5 refer to the flight attendants stabbed in 1st Class
She would seem calm, they are trained to be calm in emergencies. The people in coach were under the impression that there was a medical emergency in 1st class. I thought I had heard Pete Williams say that the people in first class had been maced or something and others could not get into the first class compartment because of it. Remember, flight attendants are trained to respond to hijackings -- prior to 9/11 that meant someone wanting to take the plane to another destination. The number the woman called was American Airline Reservations in Raleigh Durham. The woman who took the call most likely had her supervisor come on the line for the emergency, hence the male voice.
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mike1963 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
25. Sounded perfectly legitimate to me. Maybe because I've been a pilot
for 40 years (commercial).
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45th Med Donating Member (559 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
35. 1 is the pilot, 5 is one of the stewardesses.....
1, pilot
2, co-pilot
3, flight engineer
4, head steward(ess)
5, stewards/stewardesses
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JusticeForAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #35
85. I have a problem with these numbers

If the cockpit door was locked, she would not know if #1, the captain, was stabbed.

As one poster already said, #1 through #5 likely refer to the flight attendants positions in the cabin. I think a 767 requires a minimum of 5.
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. gee, what interesting timing! During the NH primary!
What a lowdown, nasty and tasteless trick.

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Turley Donating Member (585 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #7
77. It was played during testimony for the 9/11 commission
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
11. Get used to this...
Any government agency with any ties at all to Bush is going to be doing this for the rest of the year, reminding you constantly of 9/11, at apt times during the Democratic campaign. It's all they have to stand on.

They'd throw the GOP convention in the WTC pit if they could.

Keep milking the tragedy, Georgie.
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. That is why ignoring 9-11 as a political issue is doom for Dems.
They need to take this issue away from Bush by agressivly pointing out his failures and odd relationships that gave his 9-11.
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worldgonekrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Amen to that
I like the fact that Clark and Dean seem to be wise to this. They haven't quite figured out how to go about it, but they know that Bush's perceived legitimacy as a result of 9/11 must be assailed.

Can someone explain to me why everyone wants to keep the guy under whose watch 9/11 happened for "security"? Why is Bush able to get away with this "Commander in Chief" role that is so obviously bogus?

It hurts my head to think about this.
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psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #16
80. It is difficult to open * to that while the investigation is underway
I expect that only after the findings are released will candidates be able to make significantly damaging accusations that stick.

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chelaque liberal Donating Member (981 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #16
83. In any other situation he would have gotten his walking papers
Bush FAILED TO PROTECT the American people.
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Absolutely, Sterling...
For example, why was the bin Laden family flown out of the US? For their safety? They'd be safe in police custody while being questioned.

Could be the only homicide case in US history where the authorities knowingly escorted a prime suspect's family out of their jurisdiction.

Then again, no other homicide suspect's family has business ties to the Bush family.

Dems can't be afraid to take up this issue, not at all.
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DODI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Why don't people know about the family leaving the country!
Powell even mentioned it on Meet the Press a couple of months ago. The did fly them out of the country. I want to know why.
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worldgonekrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Supposedly "for their safety"
They were just so worried that people might want to harm the bin Laden's in retaliation for what Osama (allegedly) did.

Right.

They could have kept them in protective custody and interviewed them to find out what they knew. But they didn't. Instead they ESCORTED them all out of the U.S., only making sure that their visas were current.
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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #26
48. To protect them from going on trial for involvement in 911...
and spilling the beans on Bush and his daddy.

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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Bush family ties. 'Nuff said.
Long history of blood and oil with Bush and the House of Saud and bin Laden.

Thing is, the story's not sexy enough fro the media. Throw Paris Hilton in there, and you might have some appeal.

I think there's a certain sense of implausibility that people look at this kind of thing with, too. It's too preposterous and too horrifying to contemplate, that Fearless could've stopped this or knew about it, so it must be fake. Denial's a comfy place. Just don't care or pay attention, and nothing bad will ever happen.
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worldgonekrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. They seem pretty complicit in covering up the investigation though
Like how Daschle had Max Cleeland removed from the panel after Cleeland went on CNN railing on about how unhelpful the Bush Administration and assorted gov't agencies were being with regard to 9/11.

Seems like ol' Max started telling too much of the truth. Shortly thereafter he was given a cushy spot on the Export/Import Commission (or something like that) and was replaced by a guy I haven't heard a peep out of.
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. 'Zactly.
It boggles the mind.

Screw Area 51, I want to know what Bush knew on 9/10.
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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #20
43. Why were the Al qaeda, and ISI forces
...saved from capture or destruction in Afghanistan? It's all part of the old BCCI shennanigans network. Why was the US supporting Al Qaeda forces in Macedonia just weeks before 911? All of sudden we're enemies? It's all part of the secret team to rid America of democracy.

The first guy to die from anthrax just happens to work for press organization controlled by a CIA proxy. The company where he works as a photo editor is managed by someone who's wife just happens to be Mohammed Atta's landlord. It's all a big coinkydink.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #43
73. Thank you Teryang, MIHOP
n/t
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #20
47. Michael Moore
writes about this in STUPID WHITE MEN. He devotes most of an entire chapter to this story. It's a great read. Check it out.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #13
69. Yes, I agree. They need to frighten Rove away from 9-11 talk.
Make it counterproductive to bring up 9-11. They knew it was a hijacking and he kept reading books to schoolchildren?
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lucky777 Donating Member (298 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
15. The quality was good, too
I should add that the quality of the recording was quite good, not like a typical call on a airplane phone. I'd like to know more about when during the flight it was made.

Also, why not just play the entire tape?
Also, why not unearth the black boxes?

The timing issue (why release it now) is supposed to be related to the 9-11 hearings going on, but who knows?

The airlines don't want the tapes to get out b/c it makes the vulnerable to lawsuits.

Something weird is going on, I don't know what it is. It could be an innocuous as mere incompetence and cover up. Or it could be worse....

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Gin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. timing is everything....these were available 2 years ago.
gin
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
41. "why not unearth the black boxes?"
We're told that the black boxes for all the flights, except for the one which crashed in Pennsylvania, are unrecoverable.

"Something weird is going on" is right.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #41
50. Pentagon black boxes were FOUND.
Early Friday morning, shortly before 4 a.m., Burkhammer and another firefighter, Brian Moravitz, were combing through debris near the impact site. Peering at the wreckage with their helmet lights, the two spotted an intact seat from the plane’s cockpit with a chunk of the floor still attached. Then they saw two odd-shaped dark boxes, about 1.5 by 2 feet long. They’d been told the plane’s “black boxes” would in fact be bright orange, but these were charred black. The boxes had handles on one end and one was torn open. They cordoned off the area and called for an FBI agent, who in turn called for someone from the National Transportation Safety Board who confirmed the find: the black boxes from American Airlines Flight 77. “We wanted to find live victims,” says Burkhammer. But this was a consolation prize. “Finding the black box gave us a little boost,” he says.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3069699/

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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #50
57. I know. And Rumsfeld said the data was "unrecoverable." n/t
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shimmergal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #41
68. The black boxes WERE recovered,
according to a local FBI agent who spoke to our writers' group.

I asked him right out why the black boxes from these flights had never been found, and he said, "Oh, they have been."

Don't know if he's in a position to know the truth, but I thought it was an interesting and telling comment regardless.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
42. dupe n/t
Edited on Tue Jan-27-04 08:07 PM by Minstrel Boy
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #15
63. "could be worse",,,,
Edited on Wed Jan-28-04 12:32 AM by PaDUer
as in "stay tuned for part 2 coming up shortly"...
Don't forget, Atty Phil Berg served Mrs Mariani's lawsuit on the misadministration and they had 60 days to respond...which should be coming up soon..
BTW, Atty Phil Berg will be on MSNBC Scarborough Country on Wednesday nite 10pm eastern with an update.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #63
82. Also Feb 6th, sept11tortlitigation.com nt
Edited on Wed Jan-28-04 09:09 AM by Robb
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
21. I've noticed that the callers calling in to the Washington Journal
are saying we shouldn't forget 911 to justify junior's action. More and more as a common mantra on the republican line.
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #21
64. Time to counter them
on the R lines...Call in AS a R and let it rip..
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BigBigBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
22. I thought this
had been released long ago ?

Anyway, it's a shade ghoulish, and anyone who thinks that this taps will reveal a blatant government cover-up gives the conspirators far too little credit.
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. I heard on MSNBC that the conversation lasted 12 minutes
But for "some unknown reason" only four minutes of it was taped.

The part I heard was strange and cryptic, not how you would expect someone who has been hijacked to respond, but I'm sure the flight attendants are trained to be calm in situations.
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stevebreeze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
29. the one question I want answered is if we knew the first plane was
definitely a hijacking where was the air force that supposedly protects American airspace?
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freespeechhere Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. the questions I want answered are
1. Why did Bush go on reading the Hungry Caterpillar to elementary kids when we were supposedly under siege? "Now there's a bad pilot" he said. Too flip and stupid sounding...

2. Why did the hole in the Pentagon not look big enough for a commercial airliner to go through it? Some of the windows on the bottom floor near the impact site are not even broken:

3. WHy did the towers collapse?
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #29
66. they were busy...
Edited on Wed Jan-28-04 12:28 AM by PaDUer
hiding *..remember that monkey look upon his ugly puss when he was "notified"..oohhh..what do I do now?..Ahhh, keep on reading..A$$hole! He had dollar figures going through his PEA mind.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #29
70. I thought they were standing down because of the hijacking DRILLS..?
Edited on Wed Jan-28-04 02:10 AM by lostnfound
At least another DU thread had said it was the case, though I don't know the source material it was based on.

You know, like "we're testing the fire alarms today, if you hear any bells, stay in your seats".

http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/cia-simulation.htm
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young_at_heart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
32. People "in charge" knew this was NOT an accident after this report
What did everyone do after the 1st attendant alerted "the-powers-that-be" to what was happening? From what I've read....not much. Bush stayed in the classroom for quite some time, evidently Cheney was watching TV and had to be pulled away and Rumsfeld was at his desk when the 3rd plane hit the Pentagon. No scrambling of planes or anything else seems to have taken place........why not?
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. That was my thought after listening to it
The flight attendant clearly told ground personnel that this was a hijacking over half an hour before they hit the WTC. The ground personnel said that they notified air traffic control that this was a CONFIRMED HIJACKING (their words). This was still over half an hour before Flight 11 crashed. At the point where communication with the flight attendant was lost, it was still 23 minutes before they hit the Tower.

This was well before Bush even left the hotel room that morning in Florida. He didn't leave the hotel until after Flight 11 hit (reporters asked him about it as he was getting into his motorcade outside the hotel).
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freespeechhere Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. We don't know it all...there is much still to uncover.
Conspiracy theorists say that Bush did know that morning before he even got out of the limo to go into the school.

http://www.patriotsaints.com/News/911/Conspiracy/Bush/Booker/
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RedSock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. more facts about that morning
in an article I co-wrote with Paul Thompson of The Complete 9/11 Timeline fame:

http://www.complete911timeline.org/main/essayaninterestingday.html

---

The tape was played at the 9/11 Commission public hearing today.

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cprise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #38
54. Another article re: interceptors and timeline
Pentagon says 911 Interceptors flew:
Too Far, too slow, too late

by William Thomas
www.globalresearch.ca 19 November 2003


The URL of this article is: http://globalresearch.ca/articles/THO311B.html



It happens all the time. When a small private plane recently entered the 23-mile restricted ring around the U.S. Capitol, two F-16 interceptors were immediately launched from Andrews Air Force Base, just 10 miles away. In a similar episode, a pair of F-16 "Fighting Falcons" on 15-minute strip alert was airborne from Andrews just 11 minutes after being notified by the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) of a Cessna straying towards the White House.

These were well-practiced routines. With more than 4,500 aircraft continuously sharing U.S. airspace, between September 2000 and June 2001 the Pentagon launched fighters on 67 occasions to escort wayward aircraft.

But on Sept 11, 2001, NORAD and the FAA ignored routine procedures and strict regulations. In response to a national emergency involving hijacked airliners as dangerous as cruise missiles, interceptors launched late from distant bases flew to defend their nation at a fraction of their top speeds.

more...
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Clyde39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #32
56. Why don't people question Bush's sitting in the class?
It's incomprehensible to me that he just stayed there all that time. Something really strange about this.
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Hailtothechimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #32
61. The Booker Elementary video is this generation's Zapruder film.
Anyone who sees it can no longer accept the "official story" about 9/11. Which is why it is buried on the internet and not broadcast on any media outlets. I am hoping to see it in Fahrenheit 911, provided Michael Moore lives long enough to finish it.
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pnziii Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
39. I don't get it
They said during the hearings that the flight attendant talked for at least 20 minutes about people being stabbed and the cockpit being taken over by armed men, yet it took over an hour to scramble the fighters?

Before 9/11 I've seen the Airforce scramble fighter faster than that when a plane goes off course. Standard procedure anytime a plane goes off course let alone a flight attendand describing the killing on board
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missile_bender Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. I talked to a former air traffic controller and he said scambling
planes in such situation is automatic and that it happened every time they lost contact with a plane for a certain amount of time or suspected a problem. He said it wasn't unusual or heart-stopping, it was just procedure. He said the amount of time it took the planes to scramble on 911 never happened before as far as he knew. It's a question I bet the 911 panel won't ask.
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jenm Donating Member (189 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #40
59. I posted this on another thread but
I think it bears repeating how it's difficult to imagine how osama made the air force stand down. Democratic candidates please, for the good of this country, call bush to task about this. Please.


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mike1963 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. One small correction. The Payne Stewart timeline is off by an hour.
Edited on Tue Jan-27-04 11:50 PM by mike1963
It took an hour and 20 some minutes...there were 2 different time zones involved in those reports. I don't have a link handy but trust me, I know about this, I've been a commercial pilot since 1963 and have checked up on it.

But that being said, most of the other questions are valid - there was plenty of time for something to have been done through ATC, NORAD, and all the rest including Chimpy's sitting in the school.

Just trying to keep the details in sync.
;-)
edited misspelling of Stewart
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Frodo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #60
76. A couple more corrections.
The Stewart flight is NOT representative of how long it takes the Air Force to respond to in-flight emergencies, because:

1) It was a training/repair flight already in the air. Unless there were already planes up that morning (and in the area, and armed) there could be no comparison. and more importantly...

2) The "Air Force" does not fly these missions. Prior to 9/11 the US Air Force was not allowed to fly combat missions over the continental US and had not for several years. There were no "alert fighters" sitting on a tarmac waiting to fly off to defend us. The Air National Guard flies those missions and has three bases (within the necessary geographical area) with alert fighters ready to launch. ALL THREE BASES did launch fighters within minutes of being informed, none were able to intercept their targets.


Further damning evidence is lacking in these arguments. People falsely accuse that the Air Force "was stood down" which is patently false. They never give REAL statistics for in-flight emergency response time... there were over 90 such emergencies in the previous year and they never tell you that dozens were NEVER responded to and they give NO average time for the response of those that were. If Stewart's plane took over an hour and twenty minutes when there was actually a plane in the air, how is the 9/11 response time evidence of anything other than poor planning?

Lastly, the conspiracy theorists ignore their own record. Just days after 9/11, the big theory was the Bush had the PA flight shot down. This was big news that a military plane would shoot down an American airliner. But today? The fact that the others were not shot down is the damning evidence?

Multi-colored graphics and time bars can not substitute for facts, which are sorely lacking in the CT argument.
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Corgigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #76
78. HMMMM
Easy way to find this out. The ARTS 3A or newer model can store pictures of the radar scope. I bet we had plenty of fighters up. They normally take off around 7:30 am, some armed and some non armed. It was a beautiful day and over the Long Island sound is a major practice area. The aircraft didn't have to be armed it could have just caught up with the commercial airliner and look the unknown pilot/terrorist in the eye and rock their wings. Then the fighter with his radio could call into ATC and give direct information on what they see. Of course the armed fighters, if they weren't immediate available would be up in the air by then. Only the sitting VP said armed aircraft and that didn't have to be the case at first. It's normal procedure to vector a aircraft to another one who may be having trouble, or asking another plane in the area what they see. Done every damn day.

Let the ATC'ers talk for themselves and have the federal govt allow them to. All this information is track able and if you want to believe the FAA system allows non verified aircraft into positive control airspace without communications then what can I say. They would treat it as an emergency aircraft first but the turning off of the transponders (also track-able) were the first giant clue that this was criminal in nature.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #76
81. Myers testified that there were a lot of fighter jets
Edited on Wed Jan-28-04 08:55 AM by DoYouEverWonder
in the air along the east coast because it was a perfect day for flying and the pilots loved to train on those days. Plus they had alot of jets in the air for their staged terror attack that was also underway that morning. Why was not even one of these fighter jets alerted to go check out 4 passenger jets that just went off course, an unprecedented event! Even after the first tower was hit, no one ordered the jets to intercept? When was the intercept order given and by who?

So far, no good reason has been given, why with 4 hijacked planes in the air no one, not BuSh, Rumsfeld, Myers, Tenet... not one single one had a appropriate response when they heard that the first tower had been hit. Each one just continued on has if nothing was happening. All of them did nothing until after the Pentagon was hit. There is no good reason why the plane that hit the Pentagon was not intercepted. Either the men in charge are guilty of treason or dereliction of duty. Pick one.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #76
84. I should chime in
that most (that's right, especially among conservatives) people still think the PA flight was shot down. And a majority of those agree with the decision.

You'll notice all the interceptors launched six minutes after the order was given. If you look at their mission statements, the requirements they have, that's exactly what they're supposed to be able to do. If you look at their record (those 41 intercepts flown in 2001), you might be astounded that more than 90% of them launched after a different time interval. 4 minutes, 9 minutes, what have you.

Amazingly, everyone who responded on 9/11 responded in the exact amount of time they were mandated. The "advantage" to this, as an example, is that by this math they were all out of the published range of LANTIRN systems.

...And you don't think anyone is fudging the numbers?
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
45. why
release it now after all this time?
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Edge Donating Member (728 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
53. Goes to show people knew about it...
and for some reason, the AF didn't come to the rescue.

I wonder why...I think this should go out on the media. People should hear about this. They need to know that something could've been done to prevent the airplanes from crashing into the WTC, and nothing was done to prevent it.
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laruemtt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
55. i heard it and keep reading about it
not go get more fearful but to focus my anger better at those bastards that LIHOP/MIHOP. i read about it and look at *'s despicable face and it heightens my motivation to have him removed and punished in full. we can't "move on." people died. people are still dying.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #55
62. Very Well Said, thanks.
I hate it when people say "get over it" as if what happened is "history" not present tense. The lie is that the crime that is 9/11 is not on going.
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #62
67. "is not on going"...
just like election 2000..from there on in...tells a story, doesn't it.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
58. This story was reported on 09/13/01
Here is the original report.


The Telegraph

Last words from Flight 11: 'I can see water and buildings. Oh my God!'
By Philip Delves Broughton in New York
(Filed: 21/09/2001)

A stewardess's final call has provided a horrifying picture of the aircraft's last moments, writes Philip Delves Broughton in New York

THE hijackers had slit the throat of a passenger and broken into the cockpit when Madeline Amy Sweeney, a stewardess aboard the American Airlines Flight 11, first began to panic.

"I see water and buildings," she said in a telephone call to her ground manager in Boston. "Oh my God! Oh my God!"

<snip>

Her final call, the most graphic yet known about, came about 20 minutes after Flight 11 took off from Logan airport in Boston at 7.45am, carrying 81 passengers and nine flight attendants. It is not clear whether she was using a mobile or on-board telephone.



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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #58
74. I do not think this is the call that they are talking about.
This call took place 30 minutes before the crash. The one you are speaking of supposedly took place just before the crash.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #74
75. The call from Sweeney came 20 minutes after
the plane left Logan. She was able to talk to the ground for 25 minutes according to the report in the following link. Ong was the other stewardess on the plane whose call is the one that was recorded. Apparently, Sweeney's call was not recorded so only Ong's call would have a transcript. There are only verbal reports from the people you spoke to Sweeney because her calls supposedly were not recorded.

However, my point is that none of this is new news. Ong and Sweeney's call were widely reported at the time and the transcripts only confirm the information that was already reported.


Here is the report from ABC with more of the original story:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/primetime/DailyNews/primetime_flightattendants_020718.html">ABC News

"Listen, and listen to me very carefully. I'm on Flight 11. The airplane has been hijacked," said the voice on the other end. The caller was Amy Sweeney, a flight attendant on board American Airlines Flight 11, which had just been hijacked on its way from Boston to Los Angeles.

Over the next 25 minutes, Sweeney, a 13-year veteran with the airline, calmly relayed information to Woodward that would later be crucial in helping the FBI identify the men who hijacked the plane and flew it into the north tower of the World Trade Center.

<snip>

Ong's call came through to Vanessa Minter, an agent at the airline's reservation center in Raleigh, N.C. Minter conferenced in Nydia Gonzales, whose responsibilities include dealing with security issues.

Ong told the two women the hijackers had sprayed something in the first-class cabin to keep people out of the front of the plane. The two women could hear that other flight attendants were going back and forth in the coach section to relay information to Ong. "There was total teamwork," said Gonzales. Ong said the hijackers had not made any demands.

The first four minutes of Ong's call were recorded, but the FBI has not released the tape to the public. Sweeney's phone call was not recorded, but Woodward took notes that would later become crucial to the FBI's investigation. Without Sweeney's calm reporting, the plane might have crashed with no one certain the man in charge was tied to al Qaeda.
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