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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 09:40 AM
Original message
Doctors To Study Iraq Birth Defects
Edited on Tue Jun-10-08 09:41 AM by Barrett808
Source: Sky News

Doctors To Study Iraq Birth Defects
By Lisa Holland
Foreign Affairs correspondent
Updated:12:40, Tuesday June 10, 2008

Sky News recently reported on families in the Iraqi city of Fallujah who are calling for an independent investigation into their concerns about a rise in the number of newborn babies suffering from deformities.

They raised concerns about the weapons used by American forces in 2004 during the war in Iraq - and are now questioning whether there could be any links with the deformities.

As a result of seeing our exclusive report, one of the world's leading authorities on foetal medicine, Professor Kypros Nicolaides, has decided to offer three scholarships to obstetricians in Fallujah.

...

An ophthalmologist said he deals with four or five case of newborn babies every week suffering from some form of eye deformity - and that's risen in the last two years.

At one of the cemeteries in Fallujah, undertaker Mahmoud Hummadi said he usually buries four to five newborns every day and most of them are deformed.

Speaking on Sky News, Professor Nicolaides said: "I was very disturbed by the report."


Read more: http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1318608,00.html?f=rss
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
1. Of course there are links between DU
and deformities, and the US continues to use DU weapons.

It's more than a bit hypocritical, considering the fuss that the US is making about a hypothetical Iranian nuclear weapon.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. Actually we don't continue to use DU tipped weapons.
Depleted uranium is used only in rounds intended to pierce heavy armor, like tanks.

And to compare depleted uranium in any way to a nuclear weapon is farcical. Just FYI.
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Sezu Donating Member (920 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. The cottage industries devoted to these kinds of things are
not really interested in anything which challenges their pet accusations; especially facts. And should science ever prove them totally wrong, well, it's a cover up you know.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
46. Are you kidding . . . we spread it everywhere during Gulf War I and refused to clean it up --- !!!
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
2. Afghans are seeing deformaties too They are doing a probe
asking did America bomb them with nuclear weapons and the answer we used low yield nukes YEP and its causing deformities


http://youtube.com/watch?v=KE3G_Eg9JUU
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wmbrew0206 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. I really hope you posted that as a joke. There is no way the US could have used a nuke
and the rest of the world wouldn't have known about it.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Of course they're not joking. The tin foil crowd really believes that stuff. nt
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Oh, for crying out loud.........
The US military has admitted its use. Doug Rokke was sent to clean it up....he's now sick, as is the rest of his crew.

The safety equipment is defective, and the soldiers are dying and ailing because of it, along with the major birth defects and cancers it is causing in Iraqis.

If you think your government doesn't use nuclear weapons, you're refusing to face the facts.

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wmbrew0206 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Please provide a link where the US military says "We used nuclear weapons in Afghanistan"
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. The Military fired Alan Durockavich
for bringing this stuff to the fore.

Major Doug Rokke is on disability, as is most of his crew. They were ordered by the military to clean up the DU mess.

The question isn't whether the US used or use it, it's the fact the US and the UK have decreed that the stuff is not harmful, which is absolute bullshit, and both governments know it.

Bosnia and Kosovo have a corresponding rise in Leukaemia too. Those who served there, Italians and NATO staff have had rises in cancer and pulmonary conditions. We are killing ourselves with this shit, and denying it is just damn dumb. Great way to deplete the population forever though.

The US is not going to post this stuff on the military website; this is a war crime. However, retired military personnel and active personnel have admitted it, and international groups have examined the sites and have found DU, man-made isotopes, and various other contaminations. Wikileaks has a couple of articles. One is here: http://wikileaks.org/wiki/US_Military_Equipment_in_Iraq_%282007%29

There are a couple of other sites that discuss the hazards and the use of DU by nato forces:

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/du-watch/us_gov_about_du.htm


The MOD has been forced to give a former soldier, Kenny Duncan, a pension for their exposure to DU. I hate to have to point out that this is both an admission of use and an admission of culpability.

That can be found here, among other places: http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/a-list/2004w05/msg00046.htm

The denials of the danger are wearing more than a bit thin. People are dying of this stuff, and if they do survive, their children will have the same kind of DNA defects. This stuff damages the genes, people.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Please provide a link where the US military says "We used nuclear weapons in Afghanistan"
Depleted uranium is not a nuclear weapon, no matter how much hysterical pseudoscience is thrown around about it.
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. If you start out with that mindset,
then no amount of evidence from any source will convince you.

The US will not state that anywhere, because that is a war crime.

However, that doesn't mean it isn't happening. You are a fool if you believe that this is not happening, and it's not worth the argument.
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wmbrew0206 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. The poster above said that the US used low yield tactical nukes
in Afghanistan and provided a video made the same claim.

There is a big difference between a low yield nuke and a DU round.
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Not that much, no. It still litters the landscape,
pollutes the groundwater and the soil, and causes birth defects and cancers.

You can't label DU as a non-nuclear weapon. That is what it is. And the isotopes will be hanging around, polluting the earth, when the earth is engulfed by the sun.

It's a damn stupid way to wage war.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Excuse me, but get a clue.
Sigh.

Let me put it to you in simple terms. A nuclear weapon is a bomb harnessing fission, fusion, or both to produce an explosive yield. The smallest one that's really possible to make wipes out almost all human life within a quarter-mile radius.

Depleted uranium is the metal left over when all the useful uranium has been extracted from raw ore. Its only radioactive effect is short-range, non-penetrating alpha particle. You could literally sit on a brick of the stuff for days without ill effect, because its "radiation" can't even penetrate human skin.

The reason it's dangerous is because it's a heavy metal, like lead or mercury. That means it's poisonous, as well as having genotoxic and neurotoxic properties. It doesn't have "isotopes."

Every legal and technical definition clearly shows that depleted uranium is NOT a nuclear weapon by any stretch of the imagination.
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. You can parse it how you like.
The fact remains that the stuff will still be killing people long after you and I are dead and gone...just like Hiroshima. No, it's not a fission bomb.

However, the danger comes not only because it is a heavy metal. Yes, I do understand about heavy metals. I live in Ontario; like most of the US, we have problems with mercury contamination in freshwater fish. And yes, I can see that there are those who would consider lead and mercury contamination more dangerous, since lead is a neurotoxin and mercury is the only mutagen known to jump the placental barrier.

And yes, alpha particles are not the traditional, uber damaging sort of radiation of a neutron bomb. Yes, tissue paper will stop alpha particles. What's missing in that assessment, however, is the amount of damage it can do to the tissue and how small the particles are.

A great deal of the danger with DU comes because it is pyrophoric. It ignites. In that process, the metal spalls and releases submicroscopic radioactive particles that lodge in the lungs and the organs. As a result, those exposed have had genetic damage; breaks and changes in the genetic material. There are four men, in particular, who have proven this connection. One of them is in hiding here. Doug Rokke is there, trying to keep the situation in the public eye. He's also very ill. There is another in Germany, and one more in.....um. I think, the UK. Low-level radiation has been proven to be more dangerous in the long-term than one-time high doses, BECAUSE THE BREAKS IN THE GENETIC MATERIAL GET NO CHANCE TO HEAL. The other half of the danger of DU comes because it is contaminated with strontium, with fissile material, with lead and arsenic and a host of other materials. The stuff is not harmless.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #29
62. Use of facts isn't "parsing," and nobody said it's harmless.
What WAS said was that you can't compare depleted uranium anti-armor shells to a nuclear bomb with a straight face and not be thought a kook.

And if you think that radiation is the only thing that can damage DNA, I suggest you check out the heavy metal issue a little more: most of them have mutagenic properties to one degree or another.

The level of alpha particles produced by depleted uranium is, from all credible evidence I've ever seen, an astrisk to the poisonous effects of heavy metal in general. That is to say, if you get a big enough dose of depleted uranium in your body to be worried about the radiation dose, you're already going to be in trouble from heavy metal poisoning.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #22
35. The poster might as well be smoking a nuke
there are lots of reality based indicators that show up with nuclear weapons.

Journal Oncology , tossed the copy, have the link, has discussed DU as a social issue. Dont eat it. Bad for you.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I'm a fool for believing in reality?
Let me put it in unequivocal terms: there is no way that an atmospheric nuclear detonation could take place anywhere on the Earth without every major planetary government and most of the better equipped universities noticing instantly or shortly thereafter. If you believe otherwise, that you can secretly use a nuke, then you're ignoring all rational science.

Moreover, you say lunatic things like that without offering any evidence, like, say, even which cities you claim had been nuked.
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
32. I think you are using "nuclear bomb" instead of "dirty bombs"
Other then that, I agree with you.
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4_TN_TITANS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. Depleted uranium in our weapons...
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Depleted uranium is not a nuclear weapon. nt
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HiddenCSLib Donating Member (38 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
27. Nukes were used
For ever nuke that has ever been used I believe that they create a distinct and identifiable seismic pattern that can be detected all over the world. That is how the CIA figured out India and Pakistan tested them. If I am wrong on this please let me know but until that is done I will go by the assumption that if the US used nukes there would be a lot of glass parking lots out there.
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Depends on the kind of nukes and what they were used for.
The A-bomb is NOT the only kind of nuclear weapon. That's the traditional weapon, but it's not the only weapon that leaves radioactive isotopes behind.
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wmbrew0206 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. If we dropped a tactical nuke in Russia's back yard, they would have freaked the fuck out!
There is no way that the US could drop a tactical nuke and Russia not know about it or know about it and not say anything.

There are people who were there and talked about how the US Special Forces and some intel types picked up Taliban talking on their radios think that they had been nuked after the air force dropped a 20,000lb bomb (a daisy cutter) a ways outside of Bagram Air Force base in 2001. It created its own mushroom cloud after it went off.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. Nuclear weapon is a technical term, descriptor, like Tiger
A single stage or two stage nuclear weapon is a defined thing. exact things happen to make a fixed result.

a lol cat is not a Tiger. a DU penetrator is not a detonated b61mod11 or W88 warhead.

There is not comparison to be made.

Comparing them is deceptive.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
47. They have developed smaller nukes --- I think the bunker busters some have nuke qualities --- ????
but at any rate they've been working on it ---

and quite sure they've been using them ---

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wmbrew0206 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #47
52. Are you saying that we've been using bunker busters or small nukes?
Bunker Busters - we've used these in Iraq in the early part of the war. There has not been a need for them since then. Most Coalition Air Craft in Iraq don't carry anything larger than a 500lb bomb these days.

Small Nuke - Nope. There is way the US could have used on in Iraq and someone not known about it. Also, you normally don't nuke an area you are going to send troops into, which is the case in Iraq. In Afghanistan, there are areas where one could have been dropped but there is no way the Russian would not have detected it or detected it and stayed quiet about it.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
3. depleted uranium is also an extremely toxic heavy metal causing cancer and birth defects, ~2000 tons
Edited on Tue Jun-10-08 10:10 AM by sam sarrha
caution.. photos of extreme birth defects, if you scroll down, we caused dumping ~2000 tons of highly "TOXIC HEAVY METAL URANIUM" in
of Nuclear waste have been dumped in Iraq, a deadly WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION KILLING AND DEFORMING BABYS AND CAUSING CANCER "FOR EVER"
Iraq, Depleted Uranium is a WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION.. it literally kill/deforms babies for ever..
http://www.xs4all.nl/~stgvisie/VISIE/extremedeformities.html

these links have no photos, and are informative
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=121491&mesg_id=121510Depleted Uranium
DEPLETED URANIUM
A CRIME AGAINST WISDOM
By Gabriel Cousens, M.D.

THE ISSUE OF DEPLETED URANIUM (DU) IS EXTRAORDINARILY IMPORTANT. Though it represents a clear threat to the health of all humanity, and all life forms on planet Earth, it also represents a clear debasement and loss of any moral or ethical standards by the U.S. and by the rest of the world in allowing DU to be used in warfare. Scientists, medical professionals, war veterans, active duty personnel, international lawyers and the global human community are calling for an awareness of this crisis and simply to stop the use of Depleted Uranium, in order to preserve life on the planet.
IT IS A CRISIS THAT IS CLEARLY GREATER THAN EVEN CANCER OR HIV/AIDS. It is contributing to an awesome increase in all types of cancers, birth defects, and disease in people and plant and wildlife all over the world.

According to Geophysisist Leuren Moret, the equivalent of atomic bombs released by the use of DU in Iraq in 2003 is 400,000 Hiroshima bombs. We need to be clear that these DU particles have a half-life of 4.5 billion years. In other words, its effects will not blow away in a few years.
DU does not mean it is not radioactive. Depleted Uranium is 60% as radioactive as pure U-238 and it is 99.3% pure U-238, .7% U-235.
snip..."

HERE IS THE SEARCH LINK>> THERE IS A LOT OF OUR DIRTY WORK IN THIS PAGE, IT ISN'T PRETTY, BUT WE DID IT, BECAUSE WE DIDN'T GO INTO THE STREETS AND STOP IT, SURROUND THE WHITE HOUSE WITH MILLIONS.. WE ARE TO BLAME.. ALL OUR HANDS ARE DIRTY.
CAUTION REALITY: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=extreme+birth+defects+depleted+uranium&spell=1
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
39. Social Cause, Red herring
http://www.onk.ns.ac.yu/Archive/Vol9/PDFVol9/V9n4p213.pdf

You will find similar content in Journal Oncology and Pediatric Oncology Journal.

Have to hit the library as they dont allow posting content. You can source the articles.

We nuked nevada, with real nukes, people live there.

Dont eat lead, dont eat DU.

DU is not 60% as radioactive as HEU. Know that fo a fact..
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #39
49. it is burnt inti a molecular dust.. that gets deep into the lungs, it is also injested..
2000 tons of dust.. and we are also making large bombs out of it i dont think it can be so easly dismised.. you want that karma..go for it
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #49
54. I have handled it, have a good understanding
of metallurgy. I know what it is.. It kills tanks, and the links I posted are primary sources from respected oncology journals.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #54
58. so are iraqi mothers delivering 16%, or more, deformed babies.. link,>> explain this..
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wmbrew0206 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. I'm not going to argue that a lot of Iraqi children are born with deformities
but there are a lot of other things that could cause this besides DU rounds.

Lack of good prenatal care, unsanitary water, etc.

I'd also point out that there also seemed to be a higher percentage of mentally handicapped children in Iraq than you'd see in a developed country. These children range in age from 4 to 15. This is obviously not scientific but it was something that seemed unusual that we discussed among ourselves.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #58
67. Shit source, get data from WHO or some credible
outlet. There are plenty out there, none back that up. I sourced medical journals, peer reviewed.
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ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
4. war crime of genocide dimensions


nt
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
48. Well, half a million children died in Iraq after our first attack on them . ..!!!
And now we've killed at least 2 million civilians there ---

Looks like GENOCIDE to me!!!


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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #48
57. Please post links to those numbers
from a LEGIT source like the WHO. RENSE does not count.

You are claiming a 1% percent kill rate across the population.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #57
69. You mean you weren't aware . . . ????
Post first Gulf War .... there were half a million children who died due to various effects of our
war-making . . . much of it seemed to have to do with DU --- and America refused to clean it up.

That has long been a topic of conversation though you seem to be totally unaware of it --- ???

Meanwhile, one of the organizations tracking the population in Iraq --- I believe it was a door to
door inquiry in neighborhoods --- have advised us that the murdered number 2 million.


Links . . . are you kidding --
If you want to know something about this, do your own research ---


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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
6. and some dare not call it GENOCIDE


:cry:
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
7. Is there still any question whether or not this is genocide?
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Well, yes
I'm not seeing how this war crime meets the definition of "genocide"
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
26. let us look at the over all picture after the occupation of 2003
2 million Iraqis DEAD (conservative estimate)

Over 4 million refugees/displaced

God knows how many wounded BECAUSE NO ONE EVER FUCKING COUNTED THEM!

If you insist on links I will provide them, but I thought this was common knowledge around here.

If this does not meet your definition of GENOCIDE, what the hell does?

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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #26
40. 2 million, that is double the unsound poll (1 percent of pop dead)
poll that showed 1 million dead. Survey had n of around 1000, no stratification or poorly stratified, and no verification of answers. IE complete garbage. You can not use those methods to assess death. The number should have tipped the pollsters they had a problem.

IBC says 92,000 total, including sectarian violence. That skew is unexplainable. Even if you double ibc. order of magnitude skew there.

Bullshit numbers make juicy targets for the informed folks who will argue the war is a beneficial thing for the US. It is not, bad data hides the fact that no US interest has been served in Iraq.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. very interesting
that you choose RW talking points regarding the Dead Iraqis that the US is responsible for.

and disgusting....

:puke:
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #41
55. Mask
when you repeat those numbers to someone who has a statistics background and they look up that survey they will find the same thing I did a few years ago.

n is tiny in that survey. no stratification, no way to stratify without internal resources, no validation of responses, and a number that would suggest 1 percent of a nation has been killed.

On the surface a claim like that as a result of a survey bears investigation.

At no point did I say the war war correct, or the US innocent. What I said is silly numbers hide our culpability because when they are dismissed as garbage the legitimize cause goes with them.

If you post numbers be prepared to back them up, or at least know where they came from so when they are questioned you can have some response other than attacking me.
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ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #41
63. Very interesting, but not surprising.
Right-wingers prefer to focus specifically on deaths that result from deliberate acts of violence. The half-wits refuse to acknowledge the deaths that result from the decimation of Iraqi society and the destruction of the technological infrastructures that support life in a modern country - electricity, hospitals, water and sewage treatment, etc. Obviously, certain members of society - women, children, the elderly and the infirm - are particularly vulnerable to the chaos generated by war and violent occupation. They tend to die in numbers that exceed by orders of magnitude, those who die from direct violence. Only a supreme idiot would not include them in research that attempts to track the casualties that result from the violence of war and occupation. Most of the deaths do not result from direct violence, but they are clearly a product of the invasion.

The dumb-ass right-wingers also say stupid shit about depleted uranium like, "Don't eat it.", completely ignoring the fact that everyone who lives in Iraq is ingesting nano particles of DU dust which are small enough to penetrate the cell wall. These particles, according to thousands of scientists and doctors from all over the world, affect the delicate cellular chemistry, both radiologically and chemically. According to many, the mitochondria, which processes oxygen for use by the cell, are particularly vulnerable to alpha particles.

I think I prefer the opinions of serious doctors and researchers over the words of two or three dumb-asses around here who think they know something, even though their posts reveal that they don't know shit.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. thank you!
well said indeed!

:applause:
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. You should take a job with Journal Oncology
they care bout your winger comment bullshit. Really. Or you could read the primary fucking source that was posted.

Not rense, or some such shit but a medical journal.

The article sources former Yugoslavia, where I handled it and was around areas it was used.

My wife gets the journals because she removes cancer from people as one of her day to day tasks...
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ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #66
71. Your wife isn't posting idiocy on Democratic Underground.
You are.
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
12. VIDEO Iraq: The Doctor, the Depleted Uranium and The Dying Children
An award winning documentary film produced for German television by Freider Wagner and Valentin Thurn. The film exposes the use and impact of radioactive weapons during the current war against Iraq. The story is told by citizens of many nations. It opens with comments by two British veterans, Kenny Duncan and Jenny Moore, describing their exposure to radioactive, so-called depleted uranium (DU), weapons and the congenital abnormalities of their children. Dr. Siegwart-Horst Gunther, a former colleague of Albert Schweitzer, and Tedd Weyman of the Uranium Medical Research Center (UMRC) traveled to Iraq, from Germany and Canada respectively, to assess uranium contamination in Iraq.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5146778547681767408&hl=de

This film was released in 2004 if I'm not mistaken.

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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
15. While the focus is on depleted uranium, I have to wonder what other
chemicals are being spread around from propellants and explosives. Let's not forget that lead is an environmental contaminant as well.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Lead and depleted uranium have much the same effect, since both are heavy metals...
...and we've expended a HELL of a lot of lead over there.
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Crowman1979 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. Not to mention all of the pollution from the oil refineries.
But of course big oil covers that up to prevent reperations.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #28
44. Remember during Gulf War I, they set the oil wells on fire --- !!! ???
How long did they burn?

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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
31. While we're at it,
let's not forget the newest iteration of napalm, the use of White Phosphorus, and the blowing up, in situ, of whatever nuclear and chemical weapons Saddam had stockpiled.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
43. Remember Vietnam? Agent Orange -- War by Monsanto/Food by Monsanto --- !!!
They are suffering still from the effects of the chemicals and poisons we dropped there --

genetic damage ---


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lifesbeautifulmagic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
34. OMG, I can't even begin to get my mind around this-
"An ophthalmologist said he deals with four or five case of newborn babies every week suffering from some form of eye deformity - and that's risen in the last two years.

At one of the cemeteries in Fallujah, undertaker Mahmoud Hummadi said he usually buries four to five newborns every day and most of them are deformed.


:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. That seems a bit higher than Chernobyl or Hiroshima..
I would call bullshit.

Agenda pieces tend to under cut real positions, war is bad, by making juicy targets.

There are plenty of resources available to nullify this claim.
http://www.onk.ns.ac.yu/Archive/Vol9/PDFVol9/V9n4p213.pdf
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
36. DU is a social issue
primary source stating so. Many others do as well.

http://www.onk.ns.ac.yu/Archive/Vol9/PDFVol9/V9n4p213.pdf

I will have to look for my back post. However that post was a published article in Journal Oncology. Just dont eat it.

I would look for rates from these guys and compare them to Chernobyl or Hiroshima. Lots of innuendo, no data.

here is link to the issue. Will have to look for my old post.

Basically if you pull the MSDS for this material it is a heavy metal and alpha emitter. It kills tanks really well.

You guys are aware we nuked the shit out of Nevada right? That is non-depleted uranium. You can go visit there, just don't eat the dirt.

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a713841758~db=all~order=page
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #36
45. A slight disinfo as the expression near the test sights is: "We are all downwinders" ---
It is everywhere ---

And aren't they getting earthquakes in Reno now . . .

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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #45
56. They shot huge numbers
of nuclear weapons in nevada. Not just the trinity test.

My point is DU not what people are claiming it to be. There is study from Yugoslavia (what was ) of the use of DU.

The people claiming Chernobyl rates of defects are questionable.
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #36
51. don't breathe the dust or drink the water either........
It contaminates the groundwater and, especially in the desert, flies around in windstorms. Passing it off as a social issue is disingenuous bordering on downright deceptive.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. Cal.l Nevada, tell them to move...
we exploded many nuclear weapons there, above ground testing, yet there are none of these results.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
42. We've spread DU everywhere .. . soldiers bring it home on their clothing . . .into water supply --
This was already studied and very clear after our first war on Iraq --- remember Gulf War I?

And, Gulf War Syndrome which was constantly denied so the gov't didn't have to accept responsibility and pay off ???

Quite some damage we have done to humanity --




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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
50. More evidence of multiple hazards from depleted uranium

Dr. Fasy is an Associate Clinical Professor of Pathology at the Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York City. He has longstanding interests in carcinogenesis and environmental toxicology. In the past two years, he has lectured at conferences and university campuses on the toxic effects of inhaling uranium oxide dusts derived from depleted uranium weapons.

SNIP

It is now clear that uranium has multiple toxicities. This slide summarizes some of the major toxicities of uranium.

By the early 1900s, uranium was well recognized to be a kidney toxin. By the mid-1940s, uranium was known to be a neurotoxin. By the early 1970s, uranium was recognized to be a carcinogen based on mortality studies of uranium workers and on experiments with dogs and monkeys. The first evidence that uranyl ions bind to DNA was reported in 1949 and by the early 1990s, uranium was shown to be a mutagen. Also, in the early 1990s, uranium was shown to be a teratogen, that is, an inducer of birth defects. The toxic effects of uranium on the kidney and on the nervous system typically occur within days of exposure and radiation probably plays little or no role in mediating these effects. In contrast, the carcinogenic effects of uranium have a delayed onset. The teratogenic effects of uranium might be due to exposure of one parent prior to conception as well as to exposure of the mother to uranium early in pregnancy.

Now let us briefly consider the routes of exposure to uranium. In the context of the dust particles derived from depleted uranium weapons, this means exposure to uranium oxides. By far the most dangerous route of exposure to uranium oxides is the inhalational or respiratory route. Absorption of uranium oxides through the gastrointestinal tract, the skin and the conjunctivae is possible but quite limited.

Following impact with hard targets, uranium metal undergoes combustion releasing large quantities of very small uranium oxide dust particles into the environment.

These dust particles derived from depleted uranium weapons are drastically different from the natural uranium that is normally present in rocks and soil.

Soil particles contain uranium at very low concentrations, typically less than 5 parts per million; the vast majority of these soil particles, however, are too large to be inhaled deep into the lungs. In contrast, the dust particles derived from depleted uranium weapons contain very high concentrations of uranium, typically more than 500.000 parts per million; moreover, most of the D.U. dust particles are sufficiently small to be inhaled deep into the lungs. Thus, compared to the uranium naturally present in the environment, D.U. dust contains uranium in a form that is vastly more bio-available and more readily internalized.

Uranyl ions bind to DNA; they bind in the minor groove of DNA. While bound to DNA, uranyl ions are chemically reactive and can give rise to free radicals which may damage DNA. Chemically mediated DNA damage of this type may contribute to the ability of uranium to induce cancers.

I would now like to present some epidemiologic data from the Basra governate in the south of Iraq. In February 1991, more than 300 tons (possibly much more than 300 tons) of D.U. weapons were used in South of Iraq. After 5-6 year latent periods, increases in childhood cancers and birth defects were documented in the Basra governate. The most recent data indicate a four fold increase in pediatric malignancies and a seven fold increase in congenital malformations compared to 1990, the year preceeding the war.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4124449



Uranium’s Effect On DNA Established
by Kate Melville

The use of depleted uranium in munitions and weaponry is likely to come under intense scrutiny now that new research that found that uranium can bind to human DNA. The finding will likely have far-reaching implications for returned soldiers, civilians living in what were once war-zones and people who might live near uranium mines or processing facilities.

Uranium - when manifested as a radioactive metal - has profound and debilitating effects on human DNA. These radioactive effects have been well understood for decades, but there has been considerable debate and little agreement concerning the possible health risks associated with low-grade uranium ore (yellowcake) and depleted uranium.

Now however, Northern Arizona University biochemist Diane Stearns has established that when cells are exposed to uranium, the uranium binds to DNA and the cells acquire mutations, triggering a whole slew of protein replication errors, some of which can lead to various cancers. Stearns' research, published in the journals Mutagenesis and Molecular Carcinogenesis, confirms what many have suspected for some time - that uranium can damage DNA as a heavy metal, independently of its radioactive properties. "Essentially, if you get a heavy metal stuck on DNA, you can get a mutation," Stearns explained. While other heavy metals are known to bind to DNA, Stearns and her team were the first to identify this characteristic with uranium.

http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20060307010324data_trunc_sys.shtml



PRESENTATION TO THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT (23 June 2005)

Keith Baverstock PhD; Department of Environmental Sciences, University of Kuopio, KUOPIO, Finland

I have, during a career of some 30 years, developed expertise in evaluating risks regarding the environmental and occupational exposure to ionising radiation and radioactive materials in many different situations. I have done this in the context of employment by the UK Medical Research Council (1971 to 1991) and the European Regional Office of the World Health Organisation (1991 to 2003), both ostensibly "independent" organisations.

Between 2000 and 2002 I examined the evidence relating to risks from the mildly radioactive depleted uranium. My concern was especially raised by the specific exposure context of inhalation of the dust particles produced when a depleted uranium munition impacts a hardened target and burns, producing fine particles of DU oxide (DUO). This material has no natural analogue and does not arise in the normal refining and processing of uranium for nuclear fuel. There is, therefore, no prior experience of exposure to this material than its use in Iraq in 1991.

According to the International Commission for Radiological Protection (ICRP), inhaled DUO would pose a hazard to the lung from radiation if it were insoluble and a chemical toxicity risk to the kidney (physiological toxicity of kidney malfunction) if it were soluble.

DUO is in fact part insoluble and part sparingly soluble. Since 1998 evidence has accrued that human cells exposed in the laboratory to low concentrations of DU exhibit changes characteristic of malignant cells and indeed, when implanted into host animals, will lead to malignancy. In these experiments it seems unlikely, given the low concentrations and the experimental conditions, that this effect is mediated by radiation, but is rather a chemically mediated genotoxicity. (See for example 1-6 The non-radioactive element, nickel, produces similar effects and is an established carcinogen.

In 2001 this evidence led me to believe that inhaled DUO particles, which are capable of penetrating the deep lung (where they would be retained for long periods) posed, for a period of weeks to months, not only a radiotoxicity risk but also a chemical genotoxicity risk and potentially a synergy between the two. Thus any risk evaluated on the basis of the ICRP recommendations would be likely to underestimate the true risk.

In addition, that DU is only mildly radioactive through alpha emission, raises the possibility of a further risk route mediated by the so called "bystander effect". (See for example; 7, 8) Here a single cell "hit" by an alpha particle sends signals to surrounding cells causing them to behave as if they had been irradiated. In circumstances where bystanders predominate (low dose exposure to alpha particles for example) the bystander effect acts to amplify the "radiation effect".

Thus, detailed examination of DUO reveals three potential risk routes in addition to the conventional radiotoxicity caused by direct irradiation, namely, chemical genotoxicity, synergy between radiation and chemical toxicities and a bystander route.

http://www.grassrootspeace.org/keith_baverstock_23june05.htm
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
60. More bad news for *
Another count or two added to his indictment at The Hague
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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
61. I lost my books re DU when our house burned last year, but I remember
seeing statistics and pictures of birth defects that are appearing in babies born to families of soldiers that served in Iraq
that are exactly like some of the defects appearing in Iraqi babies.

The similarity in defects would not be statistically expected. The link is exposure to
toxic agents (depleted uranium and ?)in Iraq.

Wish I could cite a source--but my library is gone.
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. you're talking DU
there's threads in the DU archives (will have to look them up)--remember the threads on Falluja-it wasn't about DU's, but about chemical warfare being used. Remember the Italian reporter who was wounded? I remember was discussed about her having information on what went down in Falluja--and the possibility of chemical agent being used.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #65
70. Don't worry about the "links" . . . when people are really interested they
have generally kept up with this stuff ---

and, usually when info appears at websites, interested people actually read it ---

Those who don't will ask for "links" first thing ---
notice they rarely look up info for themselves or read it when it's available ---

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dethl Donating Member (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
68. Its not enough that we have immediate collateral damage....
Guess we need to make sure the future generation of "terrorists" are disabled by any means necessary.

:sarcasm:
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DogPoundPup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
72. IRAQ: 'Special Weapons' Have a Fallout on Babies
Source: IPS News

FALLUJAH, Jun 12 (IPS) - Babies born in Fallujah are showing illnesses and deformities on a scale never seen before, doctors and residents say.

The new cases, and the number of deaths among children, have risen after "special weaponry" was used in the two massive bombing campaigns in Fallujah in 2004.

After denying it at first, the Pentagon admitted in November 2005 that white phosphorous, a restricted incendiary weapon, was used a year earlier in Fallujah.

In addition, depleted uranium (DU) munitions, which contain low-level radioactive waste, were used heavily in Fallujah. The Pentagon admits to having used 1,200 tonnes of DU in Iraq thus far.

Many doctors believe DU to be the cause of a severe increase in the incidence of cancer in Iraq, as well as among U.S. veterans who served in the 1991 Gulf War and through the current occupation.


Read more: http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=42762







According to www.halliburtonwatch.org, “Documents include maps of Iraqi and other mid-east oilfields, pipelines, refineries and terminals, two charts detailing various Iraqi oil and gas projects, and a March 2001 list of “Foreign Suitors for Iraqi Oilfield Contracts.” They also sate that, “In January 2003, The Wall Street Journal reported that representatives from Halliburton, Exxon Mobil Corp., Chevron-Texaco Corp. and Conoco-Phillips, among others, had met with Vice President Cheney’s staff to plan the post-war revival of Iraq’s oil industry. However, both Cheney and the companies deny the meeting took place.” The War didn’t begin until March 2003, but we already had maps showing who would get Iraq’s Oil Fields when the war was over, drawn up in meetings held between January and May, 2001.
http://www.bestcyrano.org/THOMASPAINE/?p=749
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