Pakistan condemns "cowardly" U.S. attack; 11 dead

[Xipe Totec]

Source: Reuters

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Pakistan said on Wednesday an "unprovoked and cowardly" air strike by U.S. forces had killed 11 Pakistani soldiers on its border with Afghanistan and undermined the basis of security cooperation.

The soldiers were killed at a border post in the Mohmand region, opposite Afghanistan's Kunar province, late on Tuesday as U.S. coalition forces in Afghanistan battled militants attacking from Pakistan, a Pakistani security official said.

The incident came as frustration is rising in Kabul and among Western forces in Afghanistan over Pakistani efforts to negotiate pacts to end militant violence on its side of the border. NATO says such deals lead to more violence in Afghanistan.

In its strongest criticism of the U.S. military since joining the U.S.-led campaign against terrorism, the Pakistani military condemned the killing of the 11 paramilitary soldiers, including an officer. If confirmed, it would be the most Pakistani soldiers ever killed in an attack by U.S. forces.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080611/ts_nm/pakistan_attack_dc_3

---

Hearts and minds, etc... :eyes:

[snappyturtle]

1. Will we ever learn? n/t

[tom_paine]

2. No, I think history quite cleary shows we humans never learn anything.

Tool-making in all it's various forms and advancements aside.

I am so confident of this principle, that I am certain in 1000 years, if there are even any people left (I think there still will be some, albeit small numbers compared to those curently alive) slavery will once again be widely practiced.

I mean, with the cheap oil long gone the descendants of the Bushies are going to need someone to carry their sedan chairs.

That would be the descendants of the rest of us.

[gratuitous]

3. No, because "learning" has nothing to do with it

We're talking about a fanatical devotion to an unprovable belief system, the Myth of Redemptive Violence. No matter how many times it doesn't work, no matter how many times it makes a bad situation worse, the True Believers will always apply violence first, and have fashioned a society in the United States that is so permeated with their stories and myths that we barely even notice it.

So we will continue to send out men and planes to indiscriminately drop bombs without warning on people who can't defend themselves and can't get away, and we'll continue to call that honorable and brave.

[paparush]

4. Congress Approved this GLOBAL War on Terror.

Congress needs to redefine the mandate and reign these thugs (ours) in.

[Winterblues]

5. Not sure that is in fact the truth

Congress did indeed approve the "Iraqi War Resolution" (IWR) but I don't believe it included bombing other sovereign nations..I know the Bush* Cabal believes they have full right to bomb anywhere in the world they wish, but I do not believe Congress approved that belief. I could be wrong and would like to see the actual wording if I am wrong.

[paparush]

43. The language is pretty damn clear ..

Authorization for Use of Military Force
September 18, 2001

Public Law 107-40

107th CONGRESS

<snip>
a) IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.
</snip>


http://news.findlaw.com/wp/docs/terrorism/sjres23.es.html

[LynnTheDem]

6. 11 more grieving families. 11 more families with justified rage against us.

But what's 11 more dead when George W. bUsh has caused hundreds of thousands of deaths already, including over 4000 American ones.

[polticalpout]

7. U.S. claims they bombed Taliban who attacked forces in Afghanistan

and then the Taliban fled into Pakistan. So what do you suggest the U.S. does? Let the Taliban do what they want or....??

[Xipe Totec]

8. You seem pretty sure of your facts

do you have access to additional information we don't know about?

I don't see how killing Pakistani soldiers helps get rid of the Taliban.

Maybe you can translate from Rethuglish to English?

:eyes:

[polticalpout]

12. US think tank: Pakistan helped Taliban insurgents

...
Last Updated: June 11. 2008
KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) — Pakistani intelligence agents and paramilitary forces have helped train Taliban insurgents and have given them information about American troop movements in Afghanistan, said a report published Monday by a U.S. think tank.

The study by the RAND Corp. also warned that the U.S. will face "crippling, long-term consequences" in Afghanistan if Taliban sanctuaries in Pakistan are not eliminated.

It echoes recent statements by American generals, who have increased their warnings that militant safe havens in Pakistan are threatening efforts in Afghanistan. The study was funded by the U.S. Defense Department.

"Every successful insurgency in Afghanistan since 1979 enjoyed safe haven in neighboring countries, and the current insurgency is no different," said the report's author, Seth Jones. "Right now, the Taliban and other groups are getting help from individuals within Pakistan's government, and until that ends, the region's long-term security is in jeopardy."



-more-
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jZBWqtTRBqiAkNiTlAF8RKS66OBQD916NBR83

[Xipe Totec]

28. The study was funded by the U.S. Defense Department

Gee, that gives me a lot of confidence in the report...

[polticalpout]

30. Who the hell do you expect to fund a report like this???

And do you think the Defense Department was hoping for what this report found? This only complicates matters, Bush has been praising the President of Pakistan for almost 7 years now and now we have a report saying Pakistan soldiers are helping the Taliban, hows that make Bush look.

The outcome of this report is not one the Defense department was hoping for.

[Xipe Totec]

31. Only the Defense Department

nobody else needs a sock puppet to hide behind.

[polticalpout]

33. Why would the Defense Department need a sock puppet at all in Pakistan?

Please I'd love to hear why.

[Xipe Totec]

36. Because they've lost all credibility with the American Public

after marketing the Iraq war.

"I believe it is absolutely critical that a public investigation happen that is transparent to this body as well as to the American people," said Rep. Paul Hodes, explaining his decision to sponsor the amendment. "Congress cannot allow an Administration to manipulate the public on false propaganda on matters of war and national security."

http://www.prwatch.org/node/7380


PS: What's your salary grade at the RAND corporation?

[polticalpout]

37. Since when did the public start calling for the U.S. to leave Afghanistan...oh their not.

in fact if anything the public has stated troops should be moved from Iraq to Afghanistan. That being the case the Defense Department does not need any 'sock puppet' to hide behind. Your theory that alluded the RAND report was fabricated to show certain results holds no water whatsoever. BZZZ, try again.

[Xipe Totec]

38. Nice try to change the subject

away from the total lack of credibility of the Defence Department.

BZZZ, try again.


E-13, I'm guessing.

[polticalpout]

39. Explain why the DoD would 'fix' the report

the DoD (rather the Bush admin) has a credibility issues but that doesn't answer why they (DoD) would fix the report to say what it says as you allude that they did just that.

[Xipe Totec]

40. I grow tired of this

tell them you beat me and go collect your RAND paycheck.

Se ya!

[Tempest]

9. The U.S. has made a lot of claims

That later turned out to be lies.

You're taking the word of known liars.

[knixphan]

11. exactly!

[polticalpout]

13. And Pakistan is a reliable source?

I'm not going to dismiss that those killed weren't helping the Taliban as easily as you might. The U.S. has nothing to gain by attacking Pakistani soldiers who are fighting against U.S. enemies.

[Tempest]

24. Considering the number of Iraqi soldiers the U.S. accidently killed

Not to mention the number of wedding parties in Afghanistan attacked by U.S. bombs that the U.S. lied about, I'll believe anyone over the U.S. military.

[polticalpout]

35. And that is foolish of you.

You'll believe dictatorships over the U.S. ehh?

If you want to discredit both sides fine, but to buy one side of the story just because you don't buy the other side is foolish.

[LynnTheDem]

15. Yeah, let em just keep on killing people, cause gee, you (and they) can't think of anything

better to do. :eyes:

We need far smarter thinking in this country. The world needs far smarter thinking in this country.

[polticalpout]

17. Are you comprehending what was written?

What the fuck do you want the U.S. to do? Not engaged the Taliban when they attack allies in Afghanistan? Do you really think the U.S. has anything to gain by killing innocent Pakistanis, do you think that thats the god damn mission?

Let me guess, you think all will be rainbows if the U.S. just left the region am I right? If not why don't you share your wisdom with us on what should be done in reguards to Pakistan and Afghanistan?

[LynnTheDem]

19. Have a nice day!

:hi:

[polticalpout]

22. Thank you, you too. /nm

nm

[Tempest]

10. We're still killing Afghan civilians as well

U.S.-led forces killed four Afghan civilians, including two women and a boy, in an operation against Taliban insurgents in southeastern Paktika province, the U.S. military said in a statement on Wednesday.

Paktika's governor Akram Khpelwak told Reuters that eight civilians -- five of them women and three children -- were killed in the operation, which was backed by air strikes.

He put militants deaths at more than two dozen, but people contacted by phone who said they were residents said the civilian toll was far higher.

The operation, in which several militants were killed, was aimed at two insurgent leaders, the U.S. military said in its statement, without identifying the pair.

"The operation also resulted in four civilian deaths and one civilian injury," it said, adding the fatalities included two women and a boy. The soldiers detained 12 insurgents in the operation, it said.

Read more: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/SP265905.htm

[polticalpout]

14. So what do you suggest?

Should the U.S. pullout?

[LynnTheDem]

16. Coz after all, there's only 2 ways; wit'us or agin us.

:eyes:

[polticalpout]

18. Avoiding the question because you haven't a clue I see

to be expected.

[LynnTheDem]

20. rotfl!

Have a nice day!

:hi:

[polticalpout]

21. Oh for shame! You don't have an answer, I'm so surprised. Take care. /nm

nm

[Tempest]

26. To be expected?

You haven't been here long enough to know what to expect.

Especially from a long time member like Lynn.


Just like Bush, you're well on your way to making friends here.

:sarcasm:

[polticalpout]

29. Wow, thanks for adding nothing to the conversation

Hey let's review shall we?

I asked a user on what they think should be done after they condemned the military action the U.S. took against Taliban members yesterday in Pakistan (that's what this thread is about). What I got in return was the Bush line "with us or against us" as if somehow I am aligned with Bush for defending the actions of the military? WTF is that about? I ask someone to explain what they think the U.S. should do in the region and suddenly they use Bush lines against me, so I expected a response of little value and guess what, I was right.

p.s. Why would I want to be friends with someone who can only spit out 1 liners and not give reasons for their viewpoints?

[Tempest]

25. How about making sure of the targets before bombing?

You'd think the U.S. would have smartened up after bombing two wedding parties in Afghanistan within weeks.

A few years later and it appears they're still making the same mistakes.

That's sure a great way of winning their hearts and minds.

[polticalpout]

34. I think the targets they wanted to hit were indeed hit. /nm

nm

[cliss]

23. Re: US dropping bombs indiscriminately.

The US is REALLY playing with fire here. Afghanistan is a simmering cauldron, ready to blow at the slightest provocation. Things are spiralling out of control. And need we mention Pakistan?

Nuclear Pakistan?

Musharraf is going to get ousted. The new parliament is trying to get rid of him, and they will probably succeed in a week or two.
Meanwhile, the US is playing G.I. Joe dropping bombs on an already incendiary situation.
The fuse is burning.

[maxsolomon]

27. 11 "Paramilitary" Soldiers?

what does that mean - they weren't in Pakistani military uniform, but were dressed in street clothes?

[polticalpout]

32. Why were the Soldiers so close to Taliban members...Hmmmm I wonder

The Taliban said 8 of their members died in the bombing and at least a dozen Pakistani soldiers died, so they were in close proximity to one another. On Monday RAND released a report saying some Pakistani Paramilitary Soldiers were helping the Taliban.

I think it's clear what happeneded.

[tabasco]

41. But but Prezeedent Boosh trusted the Pakistanis to "guard the border" at Tora Bora!!

They are our great allies thanks to Boosh and I'm sure they're doing everything to catxch Bin Laden!!

[ohio2007]

42. Pakistan official says US strike not intentional

WASHINGTON, June 11 (Reuters) - Pakistan does not view a U.S. air strike that killed 11 Pakistani soldiers at a border post near Afghanistan as an intentional hostile act, Pakistan's ambassador to the United States said on Wednesday.

Ambassador Husain Haqqani rejected U.S. assertions that the U.S. forces had coordinated with Pakistan as they mounted the strike during a counter-offensive against Islamist militants.

But he also told Reuters the incident was not expected to cause Pakistan to reconsider its relationship with Washington despite strong protests in Islamabad, where the U.S. ambassador was summoned for a meeting with the foreign ministry.

snip

http://www.reuters.com/article/asiaCrisis/idUSN11367850


Pretty much an admission that the ISI knows something about the border attacks.


Ambassadors should stick to attacking cartoon artists.

[ohio2007]

44. Afghans seize 'largest drug haul' ( what are the odds ? )

Afghan police working with British special forces have uncovered a drugs stash of 237 tonnes of hashish.

Afghan and British officials say they believe it to be the world's biggest seizure of drugs in terms of weight.

The drugs were found hidden in trenches in Kandahar province on Monday. The haul was so large that British jets bombed it to destroy the hashish.

Nato's top general in Afghanistan said the find would seriously cripple the Taleban's ability to buy weapons.
snip

With this single find, they have seriously crippled the Taleban's ability to purchase weapons that threaten the safety and security of the Afghan people and the region," said Isaf's commander, US General David McKiernan.

Afghan police received a tip about the drugs cache on Monday morning and found it later that day, Isaf said. Three men were arrested during the operation.

snip
Afghanistan is estimated to account for 90% of the world's opium.

The previous record drugs haul is believed to be 81 tonnes of cocaine seized in Colombia.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7449532.stm


Tough break Taliban as a lot of that stuf would have made its way into Iran. Iranians have crossed into Afghanistan chasing down drug dealers in the recent past so I'm sure they are laughing at this major setback.