Police Order Protection for Judge in Polygamist Ranch Case

[Judi Lynn]

Source: ABC/Associated Press

Police Order Protection for Judge in Polygamist Ranch Case
Authorities Warn that Polygamist 'Enforcers' Could Be A Threat
SALT LAKE CITY June 11,2008 (AP)

The home of a judge in Texas who ordered the removal of 440 children from a polygamist ranch is under guard after Utah and Arizona authorities warned of "enforcers" from the sect, a newspaper reported Wednesday.

Police assigned to Judge Barbara Walther's San Angelo, Texas, house were provided dossiers and photos of 16 men and women deemed a threat, the Deseret News said.

"There are many individuals who are willing to give up their life for the cause and you can never underestimate what a religious fanatic is capable of," said e-mails obtained from the Washington County sheriff's office through state public records law.

Rod Parker, a Salt Lake City-based attorney for the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, said law enforcement has nothing to worry about.



Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/wireStory?id=5046265

[Donnachaidh]

1. So much for the *We don't have religious fanatics in our country* argument.

:puke:

[kestrel91316]

2. The Danites are alive and well. Just more secretive than ever.

[High Plains]

3. More horseshit flung by the Texas authorities.

You'd think they would learn...

Some guy in Florida--not the FLDS, not an FLDS member--posted the judge's address and phone number.

From the article in the OP:

"Have they ever seen an act of intimidation or violence against law enforcement from the FLDS community at all, ever?" told the newspaper. "Before they start spreading those kinds of rumors, they ought to be able to ID an example of them ever doing that in the past."

Willie Jessop, a group member who was a spokesman during the Texas case, agreed. "Washington County officials do not let the facts get in the way of a good story," Jessop said. "These are the types of paranoid allegations that can hurt a lot of innocent people if they are allowed to go unchecked."

<snip>

The newspaper reported that law enforcement has been on alert since an FLDS-related Web site published Walther's home address and telephone numbers.

<snip>

A Web site that talks of a threat to "pay Ms. Walther's home a visit" is not sanctioned by the FLDS Church, Parker said. The site is run by Bill Medvecky, a Florida man who has donated to the fund for captive FLDS children, Parker said. Parker told church leaders the post could be construed as a threat, according to the newspaper. They contacted Medvecky and had him remove the judge's address, he said. But her telephone numbers remain on the site, which describes Walther as the "leader of the Gestapo" and includes a link to a petition to impeach the judge. Medvecky noted Walther's address is in the phone book.

"They are not confrontational whatsoever. I am," Medvecky told the Deseret News. "They are not me, and they have nothing to do with the site. We support them 100 percent."

[uppityperson]

5. Questions are, what 16 people's photos were given? Do you really think no one would "visit" her?

This is akin to posting doctors pictures/addresses on anti-choice websites and encouraging "visits". There are nuts involved with every emotional issue, and I bet there are people who would like to kill her. Threatening a judge is wrong. And you do know that people all over the world have access to the internet, just because it is posted by a Florida man does not make it any less serious.

I would like to know who those 16 photos are of, bet 1 is Medvecky.

[musette_sf]

7. here's some of the info

from the Deseret News:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700233581,00.html

[uppityperson]

8. Thank you. I did a quick search on Medvecky, but didn't want to stay on the blog long.

News search just showed me copies of the same story. Thanks. I think they should have given them Medvecky's picture too, but perhaps he is one of those hide behind the computer and instigate others to do violence for you types.

[High Plains]

46. Did you actually look at these scary FLDS dossiers?

What a fucking joke! This stuff isn't even worthy of the word "intelligence."

Here's the scariest guy:

William Roy Jessop
• AKA "Willie the Thug" or "King Willie"
• The most serious threat affiliated with the FLDS religion.
• Reportedly has a passion for violence, weapons (legal and illegal) and explosives.
• Accused of intimidating witnesses at Warren Jeffs' trial in 2007.
• "If anything remotely resembling violence or intimidation occurs, you can be fairly certain that William had a hand in it."
• Has acted as a spokesman for the FLDS Church after the raid on the YFZ Ranch.
• Lives in Hildale, Utah.

Who calls him "Willie the Thug"?
Why is he "the most serious threat"?
Reportedly has a passion for violence? Really? Has ever been arrested for anything?
Who maid the quoted comment about "anything remotely resembling violence"?

This is just pathetic!

But wait, here's more scary people:

William E. Jessop
• "Respected as a bishop in the FLDS religion."
• "He is a very powerful man in the community, but I have never received any information that would indicate that he is involved in anything of a violent nature."
• "Could be involved in the decision-making processes due to his position of power."
• Lives in Hildale, Utah.

Ooh, scary!

Lyle Steed Jeffs
• Brother to FLDS leader Warren Jeffs.
• Acted as wedding security during illegal marriages conducted in Nevada.
• "Minimal information to suggest that Lyle would be considered a threat to commit acts of violence or witness intimidation."

Ooh, ever scarier!

David S. Allred
• Involved in the financial areas of the FLDS Church.
• "Fairly high in the FLDS pecking order."
• "I do not have any specific information that would label David as a threat, nor do I have any that would discount him as a threat."

Ohmigod! That last sentence above may be my favorite of all.


Nephi Steed Jeffs
• Brother and personal assistant to FLDS leader Warren Jeffs.
• "To the best of my knowledge, he is not involved in any FLDS security and has no known history of violence or intimidation."

Wendell Loy Nielson
• One of the presiding elders in the FLDS religion.
• "He is not likely at this time to be involved directly in any acts of violence or intimidation, but may still be involved in their development, planning and approval stages."

Rodney Hans Holm
• Convicted of unlawful sex with a minor in Utah in 2006
• "Known to have significant disdain for law enforcement."
• "Rodney also was under the close watch of our court security staff during the trial, as he appeared at times to be attempting to intimidate witnesses from his seat."

Ooh! This guy is known to have significant disdain for law enforcement. Plus, he apparently stared at people.

Rulon Daniel Barlow
• "Rulon seemed to be extremely focused on the routines of our court staff and repeatedly seemed to be staring down the prosecuting attorneys and their witnesses."

Another scary starer.

Dee Yeates Jessop
• "Appears to be another intimidating enforcer for the FLDS religion."
• Was more interested in intimidating witnesses with "menacing" stares during Warren Jeffs' trial than the trial itself.
• "He has been described as a fanatic, who is blindly devoted to Warren Jeffs."

Oh, no! Another scary starer.

Samuel Rapylee Bateman
• "Showed an unnatural interest in the security procedures and routines of our staff during the trial."

An unnatural interest, eh?

I won't even bother to comment on the rest.



Donovan J. Stubbs
• "Seemed to be taking mental notes of the security staff present."
• "Donovan carried himself well and seemed to be respected by the other members of the FLDS group. When he spoke, others listened."

Guy Curtis Bauer
• "Seemed to "make it a point to be noticed by the prosecution's victim and witnesses whenever possible."
• "Seemed to be there for the purpose of intimidation.

Guy E. Nielson
• "Appeared to make several discreet attempts at intimidating the victim and members of her (Alissa Wall's) family."

Nathan Mead Jessop
• "Multiple witnesses confirm Nathan Jessop is a member of the FLDS security team."
• One of three men who came to a woman's home and informed her she was no longer a worthy member of the community, a task generally reserved for Warren Jeffs' security staff. Page: < Previous 1 2
Read all 66 commentsRecent comments

[High Plains]

9. Threatening a judge is wrong. Some nut did it, not the FLDS.

And looking for an FLDS hit squad just smacks of hysteria. Of course, there's been plenty of that around this case.

[Frank Cannon]

15. Can't believe there are still defenders of this child-fucking slave cult...

on this board.

Am I the only one who finds this shocking?

[leftynyc]

17. Consider me shocked as well

Everything I've read about this group makes me want to vomit.

[High Plains]

35. Are you talking to me?

I don't have much use for religious fundamentalists, but I do believe in the Constitution.

And this particular story just looks like a bunch of hype. The FLDS hit squad, I mean.

But go ahead, be shocked if it makes you feel better.

[LanternWaste]

39. Six of one... half a dozen of the other.

"But go ahead, be shocked if it makes you feel better."

And you hold onto your righteous indignation if it makes you feel better.

Six of one... half a dozen of the other.

("Oh no! that's just not the case", one may retort, "I'm absolutely right and everyone else is absolutely wrong... my righteous rage is more valid than your righteous rage. My bias is the "good" kind of conjecture and supposition, while yours is the "bad" kind".)

[High Plains]

40. ????

[uppityperson]

44. Interpretation: Which is the Righteous Indignation?

Which outrage, which shock, which righteous rage is on the Right Side?
That against:
1) child-fucking slave cult
2) Constitutional Rights/ FLDS hit squad just smacks of hysteria/ More horseshit flung by the Texas authorities

[High Plains]

45. I try to avoid righteous rage.

But I will continue to insist that state authorities follow the law.

And yes, I think this FLDS hit squad stuff does smack of hysteria. Did you actually read the profiles of the scary FLDSers?

And did you notice that the FLDS has announced they have said child marriage is a no-no? I posted it downthread somewhere. I think that's probably about the best outcome we can expect out of this fiasco. It kind of reminds me of those companies that sign consent decrees: "We didn't do it, and we promise not to do it again."

If the FLDS really has ended child marriage (and I mean the bedding of underage teens, whatever they call it), this is a good thing, no?

[uppityperson]

48. What do you know about "Blood Atonement"? Serious question.

I've seen references here about it.

Of course it is good if the FLDS really has ended child marriage. I am a cynic.

[High Plains]

49. Blood Atonement

Was or was not part of Mormon doctrine, depending on who you talk to. Formally repudiated by the Mormon hierarchy in 1978.


FLDS and blood atonement:

http://www.watchman.org/old_wf/assets/files/flds_profile.pdf

Individual Blood Atonement:

FLDS leaders also allegedly preach the doctrine of “Individual Blood Atonement.” Based on sermons by the second Mormon Prophet,
Brigham Young,22 the FLDS teach that for certain sins one’s own blood must be shed unto death in order to gain forgiveness and eternal life. Sins warranting “blood atonement” may include the crime of flagrant apostasy. According to one report:
There is a hard-core FLDS fringe, estimated by several different sources at about 10 percent of the men, who would be willing to kill to protect the Prophet and the religion. “There was a time I would have killed if asked to by the Prophet,” says historian former FLDS spokesman Ben] Bistline. During their interviews with witnesses, state investigators expressed serious concern about the potential for violence…. “That's one thing we've been concerned about a… Waco-effect,” state investigator Ron Gibson said
during the interviews with Jason Williams. For several years, Warren Jeffs has been preaching the doctrine of “blood atonement” – where it is the righteous person's obligation to kill a sinner to gain salvation. While rumors abound concerning the
practice, there is no evidence that blood atonement has been carried out. But there is fear that it will be applied, particularly to apostates.”23

There's more. You can google it like I did.

I seem to recall a handful of killings among Mormom fundamentalists over the years, some of them involving somebody named Allred (I had Allreds as neighbors as a kid in Salt Lake). I don't know if they were FLDSers or other off-shoots. And I think Krakauer mentions one killing, if I recall correctly.

But as for the actual practice of blood atonement by the FLDS, it looks like there are only rumors. Like many of the other claims made about them.

[uppityperson]

50. Thank you. I had googled and came up with too much info to interpret.

Warren Jeffs has been preaching it, but no proof it has happened. I can understand it being a fear. People who think they may lose their children act in fearful ways.

[roguevalley]

6. These fucknuts are going to bus in people to vote in the district and

take over the town, including the sheriff's office in the next election. I remember this in Antelope, Oregon with that other fucking cult. this can only get worse. and I would never defend them, ever. they are a pedophilic cult but don't let that get in the way of you.

[High Plains]

37. They don't have to bus in people--they live there.

Should they be denied the right to vote?

[WolverineDG]

47. They don't need to bus people in

They didn't register to vote in that district in order to allay fears that they would take over the local government. And look how successful that was---it got a tank & a paramilitary force swarming all over their property & their children taken from them based on a call the authorities knew at the time of the raid (and earlier when they obtained the subpoenas) was a complete hoax.

So, since Plan A didn't work, don't cry in your beer when they put Plan B into operation & start making their voices known through their votes. Don't cry because they are going to OWN the county commission seat where the ranch is located & be a considerable portion of the electorate which decides who the sheriff is going to be. Cry because they have to take these actions because the government violated every one of their Constitutional rights & because you stood on the sidelines & cheered them on.


dg

[uppityperson]

4. Does Medvecky posting that constitute terrorism, or just personal threat?

What an asshole he sounds like. Along the lines of posting doctors names/numbers and encouraging a "visit".


"A Web site that talks of a threat to "pay Ms. Walther's home a visit" is not sanctioned by the FLDS Church, Parker said. The site is run by Bill Medvecky, a Florida man who has donated to the fund for captive FLDS children, Parker said.

Parker told church leaders the post could be construed as a threat, according to the newspaper. They contacted Medvecky and had him remove the judge's address, he said. But her telephone numbers remain on the site, which describes Walther as the "leader of the Gestapo" and includes a link to a petition to impeach the judge."

[High Plains]

10. "Could be construed as a threat."

Tough to see how publishing public information and saying someone might visit could be prosecuted, though.

[uppityperson]

13. Does that work for the anti-abortion rights people too?

http://www.cnn.com/US/9810/24/doctor.killed.02/
http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm

Harassment, inciting violence, etc. You do realize "visit" is a euphemism, right? Perhaps you missed that, didn't think I needed to put the word in quotes or add :sarcasm: next to it.

[High Plains]

38. I imagine it's an issue there, too.

You know, that old balancing free speech vs. threats thing.

[LanternWaste]

41. And in the same vein...

"a threat to "pay Ms. Walther's home a visit" is not sanctioned by the FLDS Church, Parker said. "

And in the same vein, the GOP continues to dissociate itself from it's 527 lackeys and the messages they advertise, while never doing anything pro-active to discontinue the practice itself...




I simply wish the FLDS apologists would read (actually read rather than simply stating they've read) the first hand accounts of ex-members in order to better understand the inner policies and agenda of this group.

But I wish for more than reality gives...

(not directed at you, of course-- just a convenient place holder for me to say that)

[uppityperson]

43. Yup.

[windoe]

11. But the children belong there

where they will be.........safe.

[KansDem]

12. "Enforcers?"

The home of a judge in Texas who ordered the removal of 440 children from a polygamist ranch is under guard after Utah and Arizona authorities warned of "enforcers" from the sect, a newspaper reported Wednesday.

Just what are they "enforcing?"

[FormerOstrich]

14. The polygamy

fundamentalist group(s) have a very long history of "blood atonements". They are crazy. This is not surprising. The posters that don't believe a real threat exists have not taken any time to familiarize themselves with the subject.

[fasttense]

16. Now America must protect its judges when they rule on unpopular

cases. The US is turning into a third world nation step by step. Thanks bush and McCain.

[JeanGrey]

18. Beware of FLDS enforcers, Texas told

Source: Deseret News


Texas police have been standing guard outside the home of the Texas judge who ordered the removal of all the FLDS children from the YFZ Ranch.

The heightened security was ordered after authorities from Utah and Arizona warned them to be on the lookout for FLDS "enforcers," the Deseret News has learned.

Every officer guarding Judge Barbara Walther's San Angelo house was provided dossiers and photos of 16 FLDS men and women whom Utah police deemed a threat. However, e-mails obtained by the Deseret News from the Washington County Sheriff's Office warned Texas authorities to be suspicious of everybody, not just those on the list.

"There are many individuals who are willing to give up their life for the cause and you can never underestimate what a religious fanatic is capable of," according to the e-mails, which were obtained through Texas' public records law.

Police were also keeping close tabs on witnesses, as the "enforcers" might try to "intimidate kids and other witnesses, watch foster homes where kids may be placed, bribe witnesses, appear at court hearings, and make attempts to contact FLDS kids," according to an e-mail from an investigator with the Tom Green County District Attorney's Office.

Read more: http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700233685,00.html

[MercutioATC]

19. I think these people are creepy, but...,

...I've seen nothing that suggests they're into intimidation or violence. They just seem to want to be left alone so they can marry 12-year-olds...

This sounds like hype to cover the fact that DCS didn't cover their asses on this.

[JeanGrey]

20. I'm sorry but I am for anything DFS can do to save this

poor kids. This booty farm for old men has got to be stopped.

[smiley_glad_hands]

24. Left alone to marry 12yo's? Thats sick. Sick. Sick. Sick.

[High Plains]

36. Keep up with the news: No more underage marriages

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_9462175

FLDS makes concessions regarding plural marriage rules
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 06/03/2008 01:27:36 AM MDT

nearly 10 years, the FLDS withstood government pressure and refused to make any public concession on its marriage practices. That changed Monday when the polygamous sect released a four-paragraph statement vowing to abide by marriage age laws in all states. Spokesman Willie Jessop read the declaration, saying it had been issued by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Asked who authorized it, Jessop said, "Joseph Smith." He also said he was unaware if FLDS leader Warren S. Jeffs had any hand in crafting the statement. Here is the statement:

* The church's policies regarding marriage have been widely misrepresented and misunderstood. Indeed, much of the misinformation circulating on this subject seems designed intentionally to fuel the flames of prejudice against the church.

* The church's practices in this regard continue a long tradition of marriage in this country that would have been found to have been unremarkable in 19th century America. In the FLDS church all marriages are consensual. The church insists on appropriate consent, including that of the woman and the man in all circumstances.

* Nevertheless the church is clarifying its policy toward marriage. Therefore, in the future, the church commits that it will not preside over the marriage of any woman under the age of legal consent in the jurisdiction in which the marriage takes place. The church will counsel families that they neither request nor consent to any underage marriages. This policy will apply church-wide.

* The church believes in purity, cleanliness, and innocence. Our children and families are the cornerstones of our lives and our religion. We hope that this modest clarification in policy will alleviate recent concerns and allow the church and its families to reside in peace among our neighbors.

[superconnected]

25. Uh read more on them or watch the videos. They have made many people

believe they would kill them. They themselves believe apostates - people who left their church - should be killed.

[Frank Cannon]

28. A friend of mine was killed by a fundie Mormon nut

Please read "Under the Banner of Heaven" by Jon Krakauer. These freaks are all about intimidation and, when the situation calls for it, violence.

[medeak]

31. Blood Atonement it's called

permission to kill!

Great book by the way...

[Scout]

30. sure, there's no intimidation or violence going on there,

all those women and kids just NATURALLY want to be abused and married off to disgusting old perverts

:eyes:

[JerseygirlCT]

33. Are you kidding me?

Intimidation and violence are their way of life. Anyone who uses violence and intimidation to raise children and keep women in line is quite skilled in both, and wouldn't hesitate to use the same - especially when they can dress their violence up in religion.

[KingOfLostSouls]

21. how are these people allowed to roam around?

I mean seriously.


its the gambino family in 1700s garb on bikes.

[Berry Cool]

22. Yeah, why don't they Just round 'em all up and throw 'em in prison?

No warrant, no proof of wrongdoing, just on suspicion, because we're SURE they're doing bad stuff.

You know, kinda like Gitmo.

And while they're at it, they can come to the Midwest and get rid of our similar families. I mean, who knows what they might be doing in their little religious enclaves where they keep to themselves. We shouldn't let the quaint buggies and the well-made furniture and the delicious food at their restaurants deceive us. Those Amish are up to no good, I'm sure.

And then they can go to New York and smoke out those funny people with the little round beanies and the curly things hanging from the side of their heads. You know, the ones who make their wives shave their heads when they get married. That can't be right. Bunch of fundie religious nutcases, I tell you.

:sarcasm:

[KingOfLostSouls]

23. Enforcers = leg breakers

dude, the feds are being warned about these people.

the FLDS are nutcases. I'm not saying round them up, but if you got people going around intimidating children who are needing to be protected from abuse and rape, then thats not something to be timid about.

[superconnected]

26. Please check into them.

[WolverineDG]

32. There you go again, Berry

applying logic & ruining a perfectly good witch- & Constitution burning. Shame on you!

:eyes:

dg

[Berry Cool]

34. Yeah, I know, I gotta stop that.

You and me, just a couple of crazy kids who believe in due process of law and the Constitution and that it's not just for me, but for people I don't necessarily like, whose religion I don't understand, who I can't concretely prove have done anything illegal. Silly us.

[madmusic]

27. BushCo on the right, FLDS raid lovers on the left

And they will meet in the middle and burn the Constitution over a campfire singing hallelujah.

Read the dossiers of select FLDS members if you want a good laugh.

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700233581,00.html

Read the comments too. The fascist pigs are outnumbered.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LanternWaste]

42. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

"BushCo on the right, FLDS raid lovers on the left..."

BushCo on the right, FLDS apologists on the left"

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.