Robert Mugabe's militia burn opponent’s wife alive

[underpants]

Source: Times Online

The men who pulled up in three white pickup trucks were looking for Patson Chipiro, head of the Zimbabwean opposition party in Mhondoro district. His wife, Dadirai, told them he was in Harare but would be back later in the day, and the men departed.

An hour later they were back. They grabbed Mrs Chipiro and chopped off one of her hands and both her feet. Then they threw her into her hut, locked the door and threw a petrol bomb through the window.

The killing last Friday – one of the most grotesque atrocities committed by Robert Mugabe’s regime since independence in 1980 – was carried out on a wave of worsening brutality before the run-off presidential elections in just over two weeks. It echoed the activities of Foday Sankoh, the rebel leader in the Sierra Leone civil war that ended in 2002, whose trade-mark was to chop off hands and feet.

Mrs Chipiro, 45, a former pre-school teacher, was the second wife of a junior official of the Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) burnt alive last Friday by Zanu (PF) militiamen. Pamela Pasvani, the 21-year-old pregnant wife of a local councillor in Harare, did not suffer mutilation but died later of her burns; his six-year-old son perished in the flames.



Read more: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article4116638.ece

---

Oh my god.

[bean fidhleir]

1. We go in and depose an amoral psychopath who's running a country

where nothing much is going on. But we leave a vicious criminal psychopath like Mugabe in power, as we left Idi Amin in power before him.

[underpants]

2. Yes

we do that don't we

[saigon68]

139. Nice "Democracy" --"Freedom is on the March"--The Chimp

W3e'd be there in a Nano second if he had oil.


But since he doesn't and he is killing those pesky dark people --its OK for him to do whatever, in the Chimp's sick mind

[LynnTheDem]

6. "That's not really important"; what is important is whether the psycho leaders are

US-regime friendly.

That's all that matters, to the US regime.

[tblue37]

42. And whether they are sitting on a bunch of oil. n/t

[Psephos]

55. Lynn, Zimbabwe is not US-regime friendly.

That's noted even in the posted article.

The UN is playing tiddlywinks with Mugabe. The US is sitting on its hands. The EU has issued statements of "deep concern." The ANC is whistling and looking the other way. China, India, and Russia? Crickets. No one does a goddamned thing while Idi Amin Jr. oversees the utter rape, pillage and destruction of Zimbabwe. Even if he was swept away tomorrow, the pain, disease, hunger, and political violence will be on that sorry land for years to come.

We have police because we have criminals. If Mugabe isn't a criminal, then the word has no meaning.

[elehhhhna]

74. Hell, we can't even "depose an amoral psychopath who's running " OUR country!

[margotb822]

112. Africa is Europe's problem

At least that's the US view...

[Crowman1979]

141. With the exception of Liberia on occasion.

Of course that depends on the situation.

[UpInArms]

3. I guess there's no oil in Zimbabwe

:cry:

[wmbrew0206]

24. No, but there are a lot of other raw materials there that China is buying

and sending back to China. That is one of the reasons the UN security council won't move on this issue, since China is so heavily involved in Zimbabwe they will probably veto an UN security council measure.

[roguevalley]

49. how appalling can people be? Why hasn't someone stomped

Mugabe into the dirt? WHY DID THE FUCKING VATICAN ALLOW HIM AT JOHN PAUL II'S FUNERAL?!?!

Honest to God, I am at a loss for words. That poor, poor woman. In God's hands now, thank heavens.

[Megahurtz]

145. Corruption. n/t

[John Gauger]

80. Things would not be any better if we invaded.

Not by any stretch of the imagination.

[sinkingfeeling]

4. Power and control are the most 'valued' things on earth. So much so, that humans will do

anything to keep them.

[Carnea]

5. Bring me my machine gun.....

I hope the good folks in South Africa are paying attention cause their current government is headed down this path.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Flagg]

30. Burning women alive has nothing to do with socialism

Mugabe is a tyrant. Period.

If you want to see socialism in action. Go to sweden.

[Igel]

43. He was a vicious criminal ...

when he was a freedom fighter.

He was a vicious criminal in the brief fight that made him victorious after the second round of elections (the first weren't acceptable, since he and the other insurgent group didn't accept them, and it was fashionable to support socialist black anti-Western-colonial anti-imperialist freedom fighters).

When he held power securely, there was no problem; like Saddam, he distributed goodies to his tribe and supporters in return for support, and slighted those that weren't his tribe or supporters. He was a benevolent veteran of a liberation struggle, an honored leader, a celebrated figure for freedom, and home-grown problems in dealing with those who didn't support him were ignorable. He was a hero, and people made sure to give his clay feet a new coat of metallic paint every spring.

Now that his power isn't secure, he's become the same vicious criminal ... that he was before. People insist on "become", as though this is a change.

Those who desired to forget his first period, when he was consolidating power, and those who never heard about how he consolidated power, both seem to express shock and horror at Mugabe's evolution. Only the latter have an excuse for their naivete, for thinking that somehow he's changed. He was the same from start to finish; people tend to show different behaviors in different contexts.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moochy]

34. self-delete

nevermind. :eyes:

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yardwork]

39. Mugabe is no socialist. You don't know what you're talking about.

Take a look at photos of U.S. officials shaking hands with Mugabe and other tyrants.

[tom_paine]

7. Hey, at least Amerika isn't as bad as Zimbabwe. At least BushCheney isn't as horribly violent

as Mugabe.

Honestly, that seems to be the crux of any defense of Imperial Amerika these days.

As if we ALWAYS defined ourselves by being better than the worst tyrannies.

Let me tell you, it is an axiom of history that once a nation stops striving for something better, it seems to almost always rapidly begins narrowing the gap between it and "the worst".

We Amerikan Subjects might not have much of a right to vote on a trustworthy system, or effect the politicians who supposedly represent us in any way, shape or form. We might not have a Free Press and we might have a heavily deteriorating justice system where the DOJ-Civil Rights Department actually works very hard to suppress minority votes and intimidate minority voters, and the benches are stacked with criminal Bushies pretending to be judges...

...but AT LEAST no Bushies are burning Elizabeth Edwards or Michelle Obama alive, eh?

I am so proud to be an Imperial Subject of Amerika. :patriot:

[underpants]

8. tom!

:hi:

[tom_paine]

9. Whassup, underpants!

:hi:

[Critters2]

15. "And I can take credit for that".

:rofl:

[shadowknows69]

10. Someone needs to put a bullet to this monster

And rid the world of him.

[YOY]

11. What goes on in the head of Mugabe??

The problems in Zimbabwe...it's him. Sure his first years were good but that's why you have a democratic system: to prevent corruption, cronyism, and complacency.

If there's a just afterlife he'll be roasting next to Idi.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Carnea]

17. I don't think this has any british fingerprints.

At some point (and in most cases that point is in the rear view mirror) African Nations are going to have to take responsibility for their own actions. So far its been children with whiskey and machine guns time.* But you got to take responsibility for your own actions. And the west has to stop enabling these governments with food and fuel aid.



*And before somebody accuses me of knee jerk racism I would like to point out Europe spent a very long time in this state and only in the last few years seemed to civilize itself. America civilized not so much but I digress.*

[hedgehog]

79. I think France has a lot more influence about what is happening

in Africa than we here realize. Someone is sending money in to purchase all the guns.

[yardwork]

104. The U.S. is sending a lot of guns to many places in Africa.

[ohio2007]

116. China trades guns for oil.

AK-47's keep the peace along the pipelines vital to Chinese interests.

[yardwork]

103. And will the United States of America start taking responsibility for its actions?

We aren't just "enabling" other countries with food and fuel aid. We've been creating monsters like Mugabe and teaching people to murder, torture, and terrorize for hundreds of years. Read about the U.S. influence in Central and South America.

[LeftishBrit]

25. Are you serious?

Firstly, the IRA are NOT, repeat NOT, a reliable or unbiased source of info about Britain!!!! Secondly, this isn't happening in a part of the UK like Northern Ireland; it's happening in a country which became independent of the UK over 30 years ago. Do you really think that the Brits would send someone to Zimbabwe to murder the unfortunate wife of an opposition politician? Even if the Brits wanted to get involved at that level (they don't!), wouldn't it make more sense for someone, who is prepared to use violence in the cause of undermining Mugabe, to try to assassinate him directly, rather than do something as convoluted as this?

I'm no defender of British foreign policy, which has recently been quite disastrous; but we honestly don't orchestrate everything bad that's done in other parts of the world!

[truebrit71]

28. Yeah it's the Brits doing this, not the fucking psycho running the country...

...Okay...:eyes:

Oh, and FUCK the IRA, m'kay?

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

44. Maybe invisible jewish elves did it.

I mean, this is tricky territory! That phrase justifies any lunacy!

[Carnea]

98. I just read this morning that those elves killed Kennedy NT

[JVS]

131. Oh shit. Mr. B Natural has gone rogue!

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[galledgoblin]

64. if it were 1970 I might put on a tin foil hat

but you're crazy if you think the Brits had anything to do with this.

[AlphaCentauri]

83. What grabbed my attention was the headline "Robert Mugabe's militia"

have anyone seen any headline like "Tony Blair militia" or soldiers..

[Carnea]

100. Militia is a kind word for what they are.

Let me know when the British army is a bunch of sadistic criminals with machetes and I'll start calling them that.

[AlphaCentauri]

105. well, call them Tony Blair Soldiers

that would make sense, specially for those who have lost their legs and arms in Iraq

[nashville_brook]

14. this is a 60-pt headline kind of news story. holy f'n shit.

[underpants]

20. Yeah

the Fox News headline was that they hacked her and THEN burned her...alive

but that was older than 12 hours so I used this one

MY GOD

[Critters2]

16. I have a friend who's been arrested in Zimbabwe. No one knows where he is.

Pastor of a UCCZ church, spoke against Mugabe.

We're fearing the worst, of course.

[underpants]

21. I'm very sorry to hear that n/t

[Critters2]

27. Thanks. Another pastor in the same area (Chipinge District)

was roughed up by police the same day, but not arrested. Nothing compared to women being burned alive, but bad. And our government sits idly by.

[otherlander]

66. God, I'm sorry, mycritters.

I hope he somehow gets out alive. I can't understand how the hell people can actually do these things.

[Critters2]

88. Thank you. We're doing a lot of praying. And hoping Mugabe is removed

while Christopher is still alive.

[LeftishBrit]

96. I am so sorry to hear this. All best wishes for his safety!

[Critters2]

110. Thank you. Still no news. nt

[tidy_bowl]

107. Wow, I hope he is OK. The things I've heard make me shudder. nt

[FloridaJudy]

113. How horrible!

I have a lot of respect for the UCC, though I don't share your faith. That must have taken the kind of courage few of us are ever called upon to display. I'm praying for a good outcome for your friend, and for all facing tyranny.

[tuckessee]

18. Can't we invade them or something.

Kill a bunch of them and straighten them out?

Show them the way after making them more receptable to the message by softening them up with a little Shock & Awe?

[Critters2]

33. The only oil in Zimbabwe is corn oil (and not much of that these days).

So, no. We won't be invading any time soon. :grr:

[John Gauger]

82. Are you actually advocating invasion?

[Critters2]

86. No. I'm a pacifist. But I am asking why we feel the need to remove one dictator

and not another. The answer is obvious.

[John Gauger]

87. Sorry.

The way you said it made it sound like you thought we should be invading Zimbabwe. I'm sorry to accuse you of imperialism.

There were a whole bunch of reasons we invaded Iraq. I don't think we invaded for the oil, but rather we knew we were going to invade and we just knew the whole time that we would take over the oil while we were there. It was just assumed.

"If we didn't invade for the oil, we sure as hell are not leaving without it". - Greg Palast.

[John Gauger]

81. Are you serious?

Are you seriously suggesting that if we killed a whole bunch of people with cluster bombs and depleted uranium things would improve?

Can't you see how racist and arrogant that is? That we have to bring good American order and civility upon the poor unwashed Africans? How appalling it is to suggest that we can teach others proper morality by murdering their countrymen?

[provis99]

95. damned if we do, damned if we don't

If Clinton had bombed people to stop the massacre in Rwanda, he would have been accused of an unfeeling, racist response. So he didn't, and was accused of an unfeeling, racist response.

Accusations of racism in this forum are about as lame as accusations of sexism.

[mainegreen]

19. Sadly, this happens all the time, every day. It's a bloodbath there thanks to Mugabe.

Hopefully The Hague (Den Haag to me) gets him before he dies of old age. I'd LOVE to see that man in cuffs behind bars.

[Carnea]

22. Well he was just down the street for there buying designer shoes...

[mainegreen]

26. Probably picking up groceries as well.

His wife is well known for traveling outside of the country to get groceries, as they can be scarce in Zimbabwe.
Even though it's illegal for anyone else to bring groceries in on their own.

[JNelson6563]

23. Truly horrifying!

Sickening. Humans are surely the very worst creatures on the planet. Don't even get me started on the notion of there being a "god" who lets this kind of thing happen and those who believe such tripe.

Julie

[Critters2]

36. Actually, believers in God have been among the most outspoken

in opposition to Mugabe, and have paid for it dearly. Some of us believe God suffers with the suffering, rather than causing it.

on edit: see posts no. 16 and 27

[deathdog]

38. Only on DU could someone find this story a reason to take a swipe at Christians.

Unbelievable. God forbid you should just express outrage, or even sympathy, without using it as an opportunity to attack someone else.

Even if I were an atheist, I could never publicly ally myself with the likes of you.

[yardwork]

40. It was a swipe at more than Christians. As a pagan, I believe in God, too.

I don't hold God responsible for the Mugabe being in power any more than I hold God responsible for George W. Bush being in power.

[deathdog]

41. You're right. My apologies.

And like you, I don't hold God responsible for these horrors.

[JNelson6563]

62. Common ground.

I don't hold any "gods" responsible for these horrors as I don't believe in any. This is just more base, primative bahavior from humankind.

Julie

[yardwork]

101. I have to admit that it does sound as if we agree on that point!

[yardwork]

102. No prob.

:hi:

[uberllama42]

78. self-delete

not worth it

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JNelson6563]

61. Let me guess, you're a "Christian"

Nice screen-name BTW, very fitting. Why don't you go pray or something?

Julie

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[and-justice-for-all]

76. JNelson is being rather harsh...

But she, like you and everyone else, entitled to her own perspective and opinion.

As for proving that there is no such thing as gawd, it is your responsibility to back up your claims with empirical evidence, we do not have to disprove anything. "Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence." Carl Sagan

Until there is solid evidence to support gawds existence, we will continue to dissent.

[Carnea]

48. Actually if one wants proff of evil..... Well Mugabe is a start. nt

[roguevalley]

50. God gave us free will. God didn't do this. People chose it. And people

choose to watch it without stopping it. God has no responsibility here unless people want to believe we are all just puppets in some morality play he has going on. This is our shame and our sorrow alone.

[JNelson6563]

59. Sigh

I'm familiar with the perspective of the believer. I'm just astounded so many still hold it.

Julie

[roguevalley]

65. And I am just as astounded that you jump on people about it. No

one has the lock on truth here. the only way to find out is to die. then the truth about god or not will be known. I just refuse to let people wing their failings and bullshit at god. People choose what they do and they bear the burden of their actions. And for your benefit, I am not a 'believer'.

[and-justice-for-all]

77. I have a question...

Why is that when some atrocity happens, gawd is excused and when some thing good happens it gets all the glory?? Gawd, is suppose to be this all knowing, all seeing, everywhere all at once deity..right? If gawd is all of those things, he knew of the atrocities and did nothing about them.

Epicurus: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

[John Gauger]

85. "People choose to watch it without stopping it."

So does your god. How is it any different? How is your god any less damnable?

[Critters2]

89. Actually, people are working hard to stop this evil. At risk of their lives.

And many, almost certainly most, of them are believers. Risking their lives for justice and peace.

While comfortable, safe, self-satisfied North Americans direct a lot of snark and mean-spiritedness toward them.

When I'm in crisis, give me those gullible believers every time!

[John Gauger]

92. Hey! Yeah!

That slipped right past me. Plenty of people are working to end Mugabe's reign of terror. The woman that was murdered was the opposition leader's wife for Pete's sake. What a ridiculous claim. People are bleeding and dying to end Mugabe's regime. As for roguevalley's god....

However, I must disagree about the snark. No amount of good works is going to make a good person's superstition any more true, or any less risible. I may respect their good works, but that it never going to make me respect their beliefs.

[Critters2]

93. Why do you need to opine about their beliefs at all?

That's what I don't get. Why was God even brought up? This was a political discussion. It was an atheist who turned it into a theological one. Why did anyone's beliefs need insulting?

[John Gauger]

94. I wasn't the one who brought it up.

I don't need any more proof that the Christian god does not exist. This does nothing to convince me any further and if past experience is any indication it will have no bearing on anybody else. Mentioning it is just mean-spirited. If it's not already a theological discussion, I don't have anything to say about god. The question of god's existence/benevolence has nothing to do with Mugabe's regime, and insulting believers doesn't alleviate the situation. I say that there is no god every day, but it didn't stop them from setting that lady on fire. The above poster is just angry. It's done out of emotion, not reason.

[and-justice-for-all]

135. Meanwhile, those same gullible believers...

are in other parts of Africa and South America, as well as other 3rd world countries telling people NOT to use condoms or other prophylactics because they do not work or the contraceptives come already tainted with HIV/AIDS.

Welcome to the wonderful world of 'Abstinence only'. Lets not forget the 'if you want us to help you, you must convert.'

[and-justice-for-all]

134. I have no gawds or masters. nt

[Bill McBlueState]

56. Humans can also be some of the best creatures on the planet

Or at least, we have to hope we can be the best.

If any gods exist, they have neither the ability nor the interest in stopping things like this. It's all up to us.

[John Gauger]

84. Humans are disgusting?

Worst creatures on the planet? You do realize that other animals kill and main all the time, because they are entirely without morality? That bacteria and protists cause untold disease and suffering in other creatures? Humans are not disgusting. They are animals just like any other: they are the product of their evolution. They just follow their genetic predispositions like any other organism.

Humans are also responsible for every act of kindness, every act of compassion, and every act of love on the planet. Every person you have ever loved, and who has ever loved you, is a member of that species you are so quick to condemn. Every great thinker, every great artist, every great humanitarian, and every great lover, has been a member of this wretched and wicked species. Every person who have ever lent you a helping hand, who has ever fed you or clothed you, every person who has ever taught you, working with you, made you laugh, shed a tear with you or on your behalf, has been a member of this base and corrupt species.

[Zynx]

129. God never promised to prevent people from doing wicked things.

[Moochy]

29. Opposition Leader Morgan Tsvangirai was arrested too last nite, just released

Heard about this on BBC World Service this morning... but just saw that he was released. Mugabe is such an evil fuck.

http://africa.reuters.com/wire/news/usnWEA9361.html

Zimbabwe opposition leader Tsvangirai released-MDC
Thu 12 Jun 2008, 13:53 GMT
<-> Text <+>

HARARE, June 12 (Reuters) - Zimbabwe opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai has been released after being detained for two hours by police on Thursday, his Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) said.

"(MDC) President Morgan Tsvangirai has been released from Kwekwe police station after being detained for the past two hours. Upon his release, President Tsvangirai and his entourage of 20 people, immediately resumed their campaign, meeting throngs of enthusiastic supporters in Kwekwe," the MDC said in a statement.

[Critters2]

31. Thanks for this! I hadn't heard Tsvangirai was arrested.

Grateful to hear he was released, and kept campaigning. It's time for Mugabe to go!!

[Moochy]

45. He is going to be interviewed on NPR's News and Notes Today

http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=11

staring in about 2 minutes.

[muriel_volestrangler]

68. Did that interview happen? Because he was arrested a second time today

Zimbabwe's Tsvangirai Released After Second Arrest

June 12 (Bloomberg) -- Zimbabwe's main opposition leader, Morgan Tsvangirai, was released after being arrested for a second time today in the southern African country.

The Movement for Democratic Change leader, along with his entourage, had this time been arrested while driving in Gweru, the capital of Zimbabwe's Midlands Province. ``I can confirm that we've just been released by the police in Gweru after being detained and questioned for a couple of hours for the second time today,'' Tsvangirai's spokesman George Sibotshiwe said in a phone interview this evening.

``This is obviously just pure harassment, with the police trying to impede Mr. Tsvangirai's presidential campaign,'' Sibotshiwe said. Tsvangirai has now been detained four times in eight days.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601116&sid=aYouBmyZPnF0&refer=africa

And also from that - they've arrested and charged his deputy with treason:

Biti will be charged with writing a document about a transitional strategy, which is an act of treason, Bvudzijena said, without adding more. Treason carries the death penalty in Zimbabwe.

[Moochy]

72. Yes it did, I heard it at 12:00 noon pacific time.

He must have been already arrested twice by the time the show came on ~ 3 hours ago.

I listened to about half of the interview its up on the News And Notes page now i think.

[LeftishBrit]

32. Horrific

Mugabe badly needs a trip to The Hague, but unfortunately probably won't get one!

[Sultana]

46. OMFG!

and yet there are African leaders who have and still do support this oppressive regime. INVADE Zimbabwe end the madness.

There is nothing worse than Africans killing Africans :(


Didn't the SOB Mugabe once compare himself to Hilter?

[roguevalley]

54. too sad for words. the west has to stop enabling these kinds of

people, no matter where they are.

[GCP]

51. There used to be a Mugabe apologist on this site

He knows who he is. I don't see a post from him on this thread.
Hmm, I wonder why.

[David__77]

57. My concern is that there should be no invasion of Zimbabwe.

I don't know the details of this murder. I'm sure in the coming days there will be more information available to make proper determinations.

In the meanwhile, I've become a skeptical of Anglo-American "new stories" that purport various horrors by "rogue regimes." Remember the "baby incubators" of Kuwait, concocted by a US PR agency in order to pave the way for US military aggression? Well, keeping a calm demeanor and conducting careful investigation is called for when assessing these things.

[GCP]

70. You're not the one I was talking about!

Peace

[David__77]

71. I know.

I do think I know who you're referring to, and if so, that poster isn't around much any more. But I've never seen anyone outright advocate a "pro-Mugabe" position. However, there are some, including myself, who think that Zimbabwean sovereignty must be defended, and that the government of the Republic of Zimbabwe is vastly more legitimate than any puppet government that would be installed by an imperialist invader.

[Malidictus Maximus]

138. WE helped set him up.

in 1978, Ambassador Andrew Young described Robert Mugabe in an interview with the Times of London. “Does Mr. Mugabe strike you as a violent man?” the Times reporter asked. “Not at all, he’s a very gentle man,” Young replied. “In fact, one of the ironies of the whole struggle is that I can’t imagine Joshua Nkomo, or Robert Mugabe, ever pulling the trigger on a gun to kill anyone. I doubt that they ever have.”

Ambassador Young could barely contain his brimming admiration for the newest “liberator” of Africa’s oppressed: “I find that I am fascinated by his intelligence, by his dedication. The only thing that frustrates me about Robert Mugabe is that he is so damned incorruptible.”

[Zynx]

124. I've never seen a single credible source defend him. Ever.

I've read African media that details his crimes in even more detail than western media.

[Critters2]

90. Yeah, I've seen him in other threads. Interesting that he's not here now.

Things are getting a little difficult to rationalize at this point.

[Sheets of Easter]

53. edit- I stand corrected.

May he rot in hell anyway.

[David__77]

58. My hopes are with the people of Zimbabwe to defend their independence and determine their future.

Clearly, the majority of Zimbabweans want change from the bureaucratic ZANU-PF government that has gone far, far astray of its original path that at one time served the country's progress. On the other hand, many are also distrustful of the opposition MDC. There seem to be no good options right now. But the one things that's clear is that US/UK interference or aggression will only make matters far worse, as it has in Iraq. Let's not fall into the neo-con trap of waving the "human rights" flag in the service of unjust war.

[jzodda]

91. Its time for a revolution

Peaceful protest is not the answer there. The people should meet violence with retaliation. If they don't they will continue to be repressed. This election is a sham and Mugabe will not go peacefully. The rest of the world will sit back and do nothing. The people who worry about neo cons invading have little to fear. What does Zimbabwe have to offer to them? They only advocate invasion when there is some reward out there that they perceive. This country has nothing to offer and thats why nobody is really interested in getting involved. South Africa let the refugees pour in only to now have them get attacked in the slums. Its a sad situation that won't be resolved till the people rise up violently I am sad to believe.

Remember Romania in 1989? Thats what needs to happen here.

[Mike Daniels]

99. It's time that Mugabe get Ceausescu-ed

One would like to hope that the military would eventually say "enough" and turn against the murderous bastard.

However, it looks like the military is just as blood-thirsty as their boss.

[David__77]

108. Not Romania. Perhaps Nicaragua.

Romania is a poor example for mass-powered change. If you study the real events of December 1989 in Romania, it was essentially a military coup supported by the KGB. The military then installed the Soviet Union's favored man, Iliescu, and the people were repressed. Hardly a "revolution." This isn't just my view, but the one held by perhaps a majority of Romanians as well. After the "revolution," austerity was imposed that led to a precipitous drop in living standards that has scarcely been recovered since.

The Sandinista revolution is a far better model for actual people-powered seizure of power from bureaucratic, corrupt rulers.

[jzodda]

114. Well I actually didn't know all that

Meaning the inside story. I was mostly referring to what happened to the leader. I think thats what most people remember. Whatever the shape it needs to take, it needs to happen.

[Zynx]

125. Bureaucratic does not describe them. They are violent and criminally incompetent.

Will you concede the extent to which the economy has collapsed and the health and well-being of the people has plummeted under Mugabe's reign?

[conspirator]

60. Until there is proof, Mugabe's word is as good as US and UK corporate controled MSM n/t

[mainegreen]

106. Fortunately there is plenty of proof that Mugabe orchestrates these things. n/t

[Carnea]

117. Your kidding right? NT

[conspirator]

119. No I am not kidding. Remember the mass murderer, terrorist sponsor, WMD developer

Saddam Hussein? All those labels where created by propaganda, just to make people accept that it's ok to interfere in the affairs of a sovereign nation.

[Critters2]

122. Mugabe is every bit as bad as he's being portrayed. nt

[Carnea]

133. Well Sadddam did gas his own people and kill tens of thousands.

Was it enough for us to invade hell no. But it doesn't make it less true. Lots of countries kill their own civilians. We can't go around worried about every tin pot genocide we have to pick our battles based on resources and national interest and rule of law. Honestly I'm not happy about the genocide and Mass Murder in Dafur or Zimbabwe or Chad or Kenya but they are not Americas problem.

IF we are going to stop mass murder and grinding poverty we should start with Haiti or Mexico.

The US should not overthrow Mugabe. South Africa needs to however. The United States should give intelligence support to the South Africans if they choose to. (South Africa is headed towards a Zimbabwe like fall I fear so this point is basically moot.)

Denying genocide and mass murder cause it doesn't fit your world view on the other hand is sick

[Zynx]

126. Do you acknowledge the fact that something on the order of 3-4 million Zimbabweans fled

Mugabe's reign. There is a reason for that you know. Ever independent aid agency has universally condemned Mugabe. Are they all in his pocket?

[conspirator]

142. Let me clarify that I am not pro mugabe. I defend diplomacy and negotiation.

Overthrowing mugabe with violence will not solve the core problems of Zimbabwe.
The same core problems still persist in "free" countries like South Africa, where racial segregation was replaced by economic segregation, and the levels of violence are probably higher than Zimbabwe.

[superconnected]

67. I'm pro death penalty because of humans who do things like this

I hope mugabe and his henchmen carrying this out are tried for their crimes and euthanized - not tortured, just euthanized. I'd say hung but I believe it's a form of torture.

[David__77]

109. Why is lethal injection more "humane" than hanging?

Hanging can be a very quick death. There is evidence that lethal injection is actually quite painful, and not comparatively quick. Indeed, by comparison, the guillotine is "humane" for its relative painlessness and quickness, but for the delicate sensibilities and guilty consciousness of those condoning the killing.

[superconnected]

115. Would you prefer haning on injection if you had to choose.

Hanging looks like worse torture.

[Zynx]

127. Mugabe should be turned over to his victims.

Let them determine what to do with him.

[superconnected]

73. Her husband is bravely staying even though his life is on the line.

“These youths are taught cruelty,” Mr Chipiro said. “They get used to murdering. They enjoy murdering. They are doing it for money.”

He said that thugs returned for him two nights ago but fled when they saw his supporters. “I am very frightened,” he said. “They want to kill me. But I have no alternative. My presence here as a leader is very important. If I leave, everyone else will leave. I intend to fight the battle, from here.”

[and-justice-for-all]

75. Well..

I think Mr. Mugabe deserves 2 shots to the head.

[Zynx]

130. He deserves to be boiled alive in his own spit and piss.

[ohio2007]

97. Don't worry, the UN will save the day

An end to Zimbabwe violence asked for


http://www.presstv.com/Detail.aspx?id=59819§ionid=351020506

[Critters2]

111. That should do it.

:sarcasm:

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

118. Judging by all the deleted posts…

It looks like the Democratic Underground Robert Mugabe Fan Club has come out of hiding.

[jzodda]

121. Its kind of embarrasing that we have a Robert Mugabe Fan Club

Why don't the kooks go and become members of Free Republic? :)

[Critters2]

123. I know!

:wtf:

[Zynx]

128. Those people need to go to psyche wards. Seriously, they need help.

[ohio2007]

132. They have other champions in their closets

Obama says that Chávez is an "easily led" threat
Candidate for the Democratic Party running for US President Barack Obama called Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez an "easily led" threat for the US security and expressed willingness to approach Venezuela and Cuba if elected president
snip
When queried if Chávez was a threat for the security of the United States and the hemisphere, Obama answered during the interview held in Denver, "Yes, I do think he is, yet a threat that can be managed," Reuters quoted.

"We know, for instance, that he could be involved in the support to the (Colombian Revolutionary Armed Forces) FARC, harming his neighbor. This is not the kind of neighbors we want. I deem it important, through the Organization of American States (OAS) or the United Nations (UN) to start sanctions that say that such behavior is not acceptable," he added.


http://english.eluniversal.com/2008/06/13/en_ing_art_international-reacti_13A1678439.shtml

Conundrum conundrum.

As long as the gringo MSM avoids asking Barak about certain foreign relations, he won't upset some of the Che fan club

/sarc


I know, they will say propaganda lies of the corporate media ect but hey ;)
Could be interesting if brought up in a debate

[ogsbee]

137. Does urging a calm, reasoned approach before invading another country mean one is a Mugabe Fan?

Facts have to be sorted out, propaganda exposed, proper guilt assigned.

It seems to be human nature that the more heinous a crime the faster the assignment of guilt and determination of the proper penalty. It seems to lessen peronal fear and anxiety. I understand that during the 1800s, after heinous crimes American townspeople would often take the law into the own hands and lynch the presumably guilty parties -- hopefully they were the guilty parties. (This lawless habit was suppressed during the suppression of later racial lynchings, I understand.)

In any case there is a drumbeat to invade Zimbabwe. It seems to me that it is the job of adults to keep their heads while everyone else is losing theirs. How do you think the already written Patriot Act was stampeded through congress?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

140. Your first post in this thread accused the British of being behind this.

You have about as much credibility on this subject as a box of rocks.

[ohio2007]

120. South Africa mob burns Mozambican man ( Life hasn't improved in south Africa either)

A Mozambican man has been burned alive by a mob during disturbances near the South African capital Pretoria.

The 30-year-old was stoned then set alight in Atteridgeville township after being accused of an arson attack on a shack the day before, said police.

Three suspects were held for murder and robbery as 2,000 rand ($246 £126) were stolen from the man, police said.

Atteridgeville was the scene of a spate of recent attacks on foreigners, in which 62 people died.

Tens of thousands of people were displaced in the violence - blamed on unemployment and scarce resources. It was the worst bloodshed since the end of apartheid in 1994.

There were reports on Saturday of other clashes at a transit camp near Pretoria housing some 2,000 people who have been driven from their homes. Many were reported to be Somalis.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7455061.stm

[Zachstar]

136. Bush if there was a time for you to use your toys to take out an asshole this is it.

Break through the piss air defenses of that country and send a JDAM right through the window of that sack of shit Mugabe..

To gruesome with the side deaths of his supporters? The sick fucks who like to do this?

Send every damn Special Force unit we got to destroy that bastard!

[classysassy]

143. The hot topic for today

WOW,really pilling on today.Mugabe is the demon of color today.How many innocent people were killed in Iraq and Palestine today,as if you really cared?.

[Malidictus Maximus]

144. WTF does Iraq or Palestine have to do with Mugabe?

There are plenty of threads about Iraq and Palestine, go read them if you don't want to discuss Zimbabwe and Mugabe. It's a common, if silly cry here "but what about - insert fucked up situation not germane to the discussion. Or are you an apologist for Mugabe? Why the comment about his color, what does that have to do with anything?

I am interested in what the progressive community thinks about and suggests doing. We, the U.S. initially supported Mugabe. It is interesting to see the variety of opinion, ranging from calls to intervene and shoot the bastard through letting the Zimbabweans sort things out for themselves; it appears that Mugabe still has a lot of popular support in country.