Marine expelled, another punished over puppy video

[Lost4words]

Source: AP

HONOLULU (AP) — The Marine Corps said Wednesday it was expelling one Marine and disciplining another for their roles in a video showing a Marine throwing a puppy off a cliff while on patrol in Iraq.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jXW62DXGVxozBUULAPxALmKgdKhgD918ACR00

The second Marine, Sgt. Crismarvin Banez Encarnacion, also received unspecified "non-judicial" punishment.



Read more: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jXW62DXGVxozBUULAPxALmKgdKhgD918ACR00

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Gosh these guys are brave!

8643

[SnowCritter]

1. Expelled! They should be jailed!

As a former Marine I find this conduct absolutely appalling!

What absolute assholes!:mad:

[Lost4words]

17. Thank You Sir, You Have my respect!

[wmbrew0206]

25. I think the question is "Who decided to give them an NJP over a Court Marshal?"

I think we need to look at who made the decision to allow them the option of NJP vs Court Marshal.

If I was in the position of those Marines, I would take an NJP in an instant because your CO cannot authorize jail time, just restriction, loss of pay, reduction in rank, and separation from the service.

Somewhere in these Marines' chain of command, a commanding officer decided that these guys would be allowed the option to have an NJP over a court marshal. I'd like to know who it was.

BTW, these guys will get "other than honorable" or "dishonorable" discharges, which will follow them for the rest of their lives.

[Alcibiades]

2. If they had been in Blackwater

They could have gotten away with killing civilians and there would have been no punishment.

But killing a puppy on video? Dishonorable discharge time!

[Lost4words]

13. If they would do this to a puppy, they would have no problen with Hadjies

thats the whole point!!!! 8643

And if necessary , or under orders, they would kill you and me!

[Alcibiades]

14. I think there would be less punishment for killing a human being

than a puppy. That seems to be the case here, anyway.

[Lost4words]

16. What point are you making?

there IS less punishment for killing an innocent human being! Why kill a pupp, why was thaT NECESSARY?

Did the puppy have an IED, was it Al Caida, where was the threat?????

sickining!

[Alcibiades]

49. Exactly that

That there is less punishment for killing an actual human being. This in no way justifies killing the puppy, or that there should be no punishment for these Marines--in fact, I think they got off pretty easy. It would be nice if the military were as concerned about the wrongdoing committed by Blackwater, and others, as they are with looking as though they give a shit about this.

[Wilber_Stool]

35. I usually don't post to a thread

when my point has been made but this is what I have been thinking since I first heard the story. Kill all of the civilians you want, but through a puppy off a cliff and you've got some real problems. It is a strange world.

[Lost4words]

3. Marine expelled, another punished over puppy video

Source: AP

HONOLULU (AP) — The Marine Corps said Wednesday it was expelling one Marine and disciplining another for their roles in a video showing a Marine throwing a puppy off a cliff while on patrol in Iraq.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jXW62DXGVxozBUULAPxALmKgdKhgD918ACR00

The second Marine, Sgt. Crismarvin Banez Encarnacion, also received unspecified "non-judicial" punishment.



Read more: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jXW62DXGVxozBUULAPxALmKgdKhgD918ACR00

---

Gosh these guys are brave!

8643

[Lost4words]

4. My First ever LBN post!

This is pure evil IMHO David Motari is a sycophant as well as his dog killing buddy Crismarvin Encarnacion!

8643

[bitchkitty]

10. Sycophant? I think you mean psychopath? n/t

[Lost4words]

12. I stand Corrected, ThankYou, wrong choice!

psychopath!

8643

[MidwestTransplant]

20. Sociopath. Most serial killers torture animals as kids.

[Lost4words]

22. Im not a Doctor, I only play one on DU!

but I know sick whan I see it!

:hi: 8643

[tuckessee]

30. They'll be cops or prison guards soon. n/t

[Haole Girl]

5. I've read before...

that serial killers often start with animals.

I can't help but wonder why both soldiers weren't dishonorably discharged from the military.

:-(

[Lost4words]

6. The Marine s are only upset about the filming not the action

These folks would have no problem firing on all of us if so ordered!

[TooBigaTent]

8. Just like the POS squatting in the White House. Georgie tortured animals in his "youth"

and continues to this day to torture all of us.

If these two shits were civilians, they "might" wind up in jail on animal cruelty charges. In the military, they get a wrist-slap.

The few. The psychotic. The marines.

[wmbrew0206]

24. That is complete BS. The Marines would refuse any illegal order to harm US citizens

To prove that, go take a look at the 24th MEU (Marine Expeditionary Unit) performance in helping with disaster during Hurricane Katrina. They were in New Orleans and you did not hear of any of them shooting US citizens.

[Lost4words]

56. Are you a Marine?

[n0nesuch]

59. No, but one of my sons is in the Marines

and I take great offense in emotionally imature people making irrational generalizations about a group of people they know little about.

[wmbrew0206]

61. Yes, I am.

[Lost4words]

11. You Got It!

apparently the tosser, David Motari, was raised in a RELIGIOUS household with 8 of 9 siblings.

What kind of God do these types follow? George F*ing Bush?????

May a real God put this coward into a situation where he can learn the meaning of ALL his/their deeds!

8643

[atreides1]

7. How Unfortunate

If they had only killed women and children, they would have been acquitted and returned to duty.

[The Stranger]

9. Do we support these troops?

For all of the "Support the Troops!" crowd, I just wanted to know.

[Lost4words]

15. I am against this phony war and our phony commander and cheif

I dont support anyone who can kill on orders and enjoy it!

8643

[sui generis]

18. in a questionably positive view of this

The marines do not support those two troops.

There are enough soldiers who lurv doggies and puppies that Mr. Puppykill would have been compromised in his duties.

Whichever way the sandwich lands here, the marines did the right thing in expelling him. I would earnestly like to believe they would have expelled him even if it hadn't become public, so I will cling to that possibly absurd fantasy for a bit.

[Lost4words]

21. your point is accurate I believe. We are of one thougfht on that!

thanks!

[tuckessee]

32. Were the two jarheads in question reported by their buddies and/or superiors?

Was the bible verse coin missionary/marine reported or stopped by his comrades?

No, it took outrage from those outside the military to get action in both cases.

Their buddies and superiors were perfectly happy, at best, to ignore such behavior.

[Critters2]

39. Exactly!! I wonder how much of this brutality goes on that isn't reported.

The only difference here is that these monsters got caught.

[sui generis]

40. well, there are sharks in the ocean

We are most human when we don't think of every fish we see as a shark. That's what fish do.

[Flagg]

19. I'm sure those are only the deeds of a few disturbed bad apples

but those dog videos are piling up.

That's just sick.

[Crowman1979]

23. Exactly!

Every unit has a few shitbags in it. And after an incident like this no one ever talks to them unless its something negative or an order to fill sandbags and pick up trash. What gets me is that some people actually think all service members are infallible regardless of their bad behavior. I think thats a bunch of bullshit myself! Pieces of shit like these Marines are treated like lepers afterwards, and they deserve it.

[go west young man]

54. As an ex marine myself, 0341 Mortar-man,1985-1888, 1st Battalion, 6th Marines,

2nd Mar Div, I can attest to the fact that about 2 out of every ten marines back then were bad apples who seemed to enjoy war a bit too much. I would assume that under the Bush administration as recruiting standards have fallen that number is more like 3-4 out of every ten. They have even begun taking on gang members these days to meet their quotas. In my opinion the high standards of the military were not really there when I was in and they definitely aren't there now. Especially in light of an illegal and immoral war. If I was in now I would choose jail time over fighting. It would be more noble and I think Chesty Puller and Smedley Butler would agree. The real threat to the United States is domestic. It's not in Iraq.

[Critters2]

26. I'm not.

These are people who can kill on demand.

[Crowman1979]

27. Can you explain?

Because you're quite vague. You're not what?

[Critters2]

37. I'm not sure

these are only the acts of a few disturbed bad apples.

[wmbrew0206]

28. There is a very big difference between shooting at someone who is trying to kill you and

shooting someone who is unarmed and not a threat.

Almost every service member can return fire when they are being shot at. It is what they are trained to do. Very few service members could shoot an unarmed human being who is not a threat.

The military is reflective of society, so we get our share psychopaths, racists, etc. The military does their best to weed them out but it is impossible to get them all.

[Crowman1979]

29. Then there is the recruiter factor.

A few slip through the cracks in order to obtain the quota for a certain time period. Like that psychopath who killed Dimebag Darrel for instance.

[Critters2]

34. I don't really see the difference between shooting an armed person

and shooting an unarmed person. I think taking the life of a human being is wrong. I understand self-defense, but members of the military choose to put themselves in harm's way. Then they kill people. I find this disturbing and don't see the difference between choosing to be in a place where you'll be paid to kill, and choosing to kill an unarmed person.

[wmbrew0206]

42. The mind set it takes to shoot an unarmed person is completely different than the mindset it

takes to shoot in self defense.

In a fire fight, your survival instincts and training take over. You don't have much time to think about it and you react. You are concentrating on suppressing the enemy fire and finding cover. There isn't a lot of time to think things over.

Shooting an unarmed person, there is no threat to you, there is no fight or flight reaction, there is no need to make a quick decision and there is no training that kicks in.

The mind set between the two is the difference.

[Pavulon]

51. Welcome to the modern world

every nation other than costa rica has an armed force (people who kill people). Illegal actions by these guys is, just that, illegal.

However your tax dollars fund technology far superior to a man with a rifle.

Killing people is the response when asking nice does not work. Please do not kill ethnic Albanians in mass, please do not kill tutsi tribe members by the ton with machetes.

These things require men with guns.

[SpikeTss]

46. And taking part in an illegal war of aggression against the people of Iraq is in itself immoral

and certainly has very negative psychological effects on all people involved.

Especially on those who pull the triggers and personally ruin the land and the people with their weapons of mass destruction.

[wmbrew0206]

52. As far as the US Military and the Constitution are concerned the Iraq War is legal.

I don't want this post to be seen as me supporting the Bush Administration, but more as a post about the US Military's obligation to obey the orders of its civilian leadership.

The Congress authorized the use of force in Iraq and the President order it. That is what the Constitution says the US Military needs before taking military action. The US Military is bound by law to obey all legal orders given to it by its civilian leadership. It cannot pick and choose which orders it will follow.

I know a lot of people here feel that this war is illegal and more importantly morally wrong. I know the argument of the illegality of the war is based on the treaty the US signed as part of the UN charter. However, not one federal court in America has ruled that Bush violated any law in ordering the US Military to invade Iraq. This is what is needed for US Military to declare the invasion orders were illegal and start a withdraw.

To ask US military service members to disobey a legal order is the same as encouraging them that it is OK for them to pick and choose which wars they want to fight.

The quickest way to end this war is to elect Obama and have him order to start the withdraw.

[Lost4words]

57. The werent Marines but remember Kent State?Natl Guard

you need to wake up some son.

8643

[wmbrew0206]

62. There is a big difference between the Marines and the Natinal Guard

The National Guard is just that, a national guard meant to be called upon to operate within its state when called on by the governor. They are also a reserve that the Army can call upon in time of war to fight a war overseas.

The US Marine Corps is an organization trained to fight and win wars. They are not meant to be employed within the United States.

The idea that the US Marines would happily shoot unarmed US citizens is so ridiculous that you must be dreaming. I suggest you wake up.

[Catherina]

31. :( How could anyone? Poor puppies n/t

[wmbrew0206]

33. Not that it makes it any less sick, but I believe I read somewhere

that the puppy was already dead before he threw it off a cliff.

I can't find the link, so I can't confirm that.

[ladywnch]

36. I read that too. the dog was NOT already dead. you can tell

by the fact that when he held it up to throw it the legs were flexed. when a dog dies and you lift it, the legs fall extended not pulled up. and no, it wouldn't have made it any less sick. contractors in Anchorage animal control were fired and the company removed for drop kicking and throwing euthanized animals back in the 90s.

[Critters2]

38. That was the early spin, to make these monsters look less like monsters.

It was later confirmed the puppy was alive. These really are monsters.

[wmbrew0206]

41. OK, thanks.

[INDIA]

43. Where was it confirmed? I've kept an eye on the news wires for months now..

There was no confirmation Even in the Marine Corps Press Release.

Could you post the link please? I was definitely one of the guys who though it was fake, and if I'm wrong, I'd like to know.

[INDIA]

45. Is there any confirmation that the puppy was real/alive?

The fact that the two Marines are being punished doesn't mean squat. Perception is reality. Dragging the name of the Corps though the mud for Youtube antics was enough to warrant the punishment. I doubt the punishment would be different for the Marines either way, and the press release was extremely vague.

Anybody?

[Birdiesmom]

50. Well...

...I've done wildlife rehabilitation, I've done some animal medical study, I've had animals in my care most of my life, and I can state with complete confidence that I know a living puppy when I see it. The dog was not a stuffed animal. The dog was not a dead animal. His legs, as was noted in a previous post, were flexing as a live, conscious puppy's would, being held in the position he was held in. Industrial Lights and Magic would have trouble creating a model that lifelike -- two jarheads in the desert couldn't pull it off.

I'm sorry -- the puppy was real, and alive. Who are you going to trust -- media spin, or your own eyes?

[Lost4words]

58. Go ahead believe it isnt true, you are in for a shock!

8643

[NewEnglandGirl]

44. That made me too ill and livid

to watch the video. But those POS's that did that are not typical at all of our troops. Look at all of the soldiers who have rescued dogs in Iraq and sent them home to be fostered by families until they can come home and claim the dog and give it a home with them. Those are our troops. You find a few bad people in every group. Imagine videoing that. How warped are those two?

[and-justice-for-all]

47. What fuckers! nt

[KathieG]

48. The sadistic f*ckers got off light

[ElsewheresDaughter]

53. Now is time for Michelle Malkin to take back her comments &apologize to all “pinkos” she slanderer..

on March 3. It is time for Allahpundit of the Hot Air blog to admit the dog was real and not a fake. http://hotair.com/archives/2008/03/04/puppy-video-a-fake/

Malkin should also apologize to CIA operative Gloria Steinem.

Of course, Malkin will not apologize. “The bottom line here is that Malkin will say anything, take any side or hold any view when it serves her agenda,” blogger Real Truth Online wrote on March 4. “When others step outside the box, think for themselves and support views that Malkin rejects, they are ‘loons’ who should be silenced. It matters not if the video evidence debunks her conclusions and opinions. If she thinks it, it’s fact.

Evidence doesn’t matter.”

Michelle Malkin, the neocon going by the handle Allahpundit, and all the other neocon camp followers, will support the troops no matter what they do, no matter how many dogs, farm animals, children, mothers and fathers, grandmothers and toddlers they torture, kill, and dismember. After all, most neocons hate all things Muslim, they viscerally loathe all “pinkos” and people who exercise the First Amendment.

Michelle, for your sake, drive the speed limit and obey all laws. Because the sort of psychopaths who throw puppies over cliffs — and, compartively speaking, puppy chucking is a minor incident considering soldiers are killing entire families for the sheer hellish pleasure of it — are now coming home to work for law enforcement around the country.

For these violent mental cases, basically no different than Jeffrey Dahmer, it does not matter that you support the troops, support criminal neocons, and spend your time making excuses for their behavior.

why doesn't someone chuck Michele Malkin into a ravine?

[gatorboy]

55. ...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=n6ujbKv8o8k

[readmoreoften]

60. If I remember correctly DU concluded that it was a fake video.

That the doppler effect of the puppy yelping didn't match the flinging of the puppy. I was pretty sure it was real. That's the scariest thing about photo doctoring is that not only are we quick to believe that the false is true, we're also quick to believe the true is false.