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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 08:07 AM
Original message
U.S. Drivers Flock To Mexico For Cheap Gas
Source: Associated Press

U.S. Drivers Flock To Mexico For Cheap Gas
Gas In Tijuana $2.54 A Gallon

POSTED: 7:53 am PDT June 15, 2008

SAN DIEGO -- If there's pain at the pump in the U.S., Mexico may just have a remedy.

A gallon of regular unleaded gasoline in San Diego retails for an average price of $4.61 a gallon. A few miles south, in Tijuana, it's about $2.54 -- even less if you pay in pesos.

More and more people appear to be taking advantage of the lower price.

"I used to buy exclusively in the U.S. before gas started really going up," said Patrick Garcia, a drama teacher at an elementary school in San Diego who lives in Tijuana. "Since then, I've been buying all my gas in Tijuana."

The lower prices mean a U.S. motorist could save almost $54 filling up a two-year-old Ford F150 pickup with a 26-gallon fuel tank in Mexico.


Read more: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/automotive/16612631/detail.html
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. Drugs from Canada & Gas from Mexico? Wouldn't it be easier to just regulate the corporations
Edited on Mon Jun-16-08 08:12 AM by cryingshame
who are gouging us?
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
33. You know we can't do that
It might hurt our robust economy.

:sarcasm:
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bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
2. if the global market sets the price then why?
i guess the 'free' market means that monopolies are free to gouge.
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
3. I wonder how much of that fill-up
Gets burned during the two-hour wait in line at the return crossing? In all the times I crossed at San Ysidro, only once was it less than half an hour.
Border Wait Times: http://apps.cbp.gov/bwt/
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. My Thought Exactly
Can't believe it's worth it except in extreme cases.

US gas stations are not making much money at the retail level, so it's surprising the difference is this big.

Is the difference all in taxes or does Mexico subsidize its oil like Venezuela?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. They subsidize the oil in Mexico, according to the article:
"Gas is cheaper in Mexico because of a government subsidy intended to keep inflationary forces in check."
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. How Pemex works
Pemex does respond to "market forces". It's not really a subsidy, because they are not discounting from some magical "market price" that everyone knows to be true; the government owns the oil wells and the refineries and they decide what a fair level of revenue for the enterprise is. Unlike Exxon and Shell, they don't have to set the price to extract the maximum amount of cash from the public, because they serve the public.

They set the price in border cities (Tijuana) higher than further south in the interior. It is about 10% cheaper 80 km south in Ensenada. Price changes are made on weekends and it is usually only a few centavos/liter. Over 2006, gasoline changed from about 6.15 a liter to around 6.50 a liter due to the overall change in the world price of oil.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Sounds like a dream, "they serve the public!" It sounds magical, from here! n/t
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Lorentz Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. The people who live in Tijuana and work in San Diego don't wait in line.
They have a quick-pass that allows them to speed ahead. There are also less crowded border crossings nearby (e.g. Otay Mesa, about 10 minutes further east).
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. Well, they COULD turn the engines off while sitting in line.
And the difference is over $2 per gallon.
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Not possible
Even if you have a stick and can coast downhill, sometimes the line is uphill. The way the line moves, shutting off the engine for 30 seconds gets eaten up the next time you have to restart it. Believe me, if it was possible, I would have tried it. The line to get into the U.S. is designed for one thing -- to exact maximum pain from those who dared to leave the country in the first place.
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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
4. Interesting how prices are not up in Mexico. FUCK YOU BIG OIL!!!!
They claim they can't do anything about the price. WHAT FUCKIGN LIARS!!
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Carnea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Um the differential in price of gas in Mexico and the United States
Has nothing to do with "big Oil" .
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. What would Big Oil do about the price?
The government can do something about the price. It can tax gas, or it can subsidize it. If it's taxed, the price goes up(but the extra tax pays for this or that, depending on how much you tax it), and some over in Europe are protesting the price of gas(and that's with healthcare). If it's subsidized, the price goes down, so we become that much more dependent on oil.
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
23. Thats probably because Mexico produces enough oil...
Edited on Mon Jun-16-08 10:31 PM by Jack_DeLeon
that they can subsidize what they sell in their country and still make money considering what they sell abroad.

Once they no longer have enough oil and they too become an importer you can expect those prices to be inline with the rest of the market.

Also the reduced cost of gas there is only going to drive up demand, the Americans going there to buy gas just means that they will run out that much sooner. Artificially keeping the prices low doesnt really help anyone in the long run.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
7. Diesel in Mexico was $2 a gallon a few months back. Let's nationalize oil. n/t
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
9. NYers have to be satisfied to go to NJ for gas.
Lower taxes there means 30+ cent per gallon lower prices.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
12. So the wall has a doggy door?!1 & don't forget the prescriptions!1 & the Kahlua!1
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
14. Nice, if you live in San Diego.
From Los Angeles, I'd use up all my savings just getting to TJ, and arrive home with an empty tank, anyway.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
15. this is the real reason...>>LINK>>
links to the truth.... .>>.links>> Randi Rhodes was on this way back

http://www.star-telegram.com/ed_wallace/story/651928.ht...
snip"...There’s a few hedge fund managers out there who are masters at knowing how to exploit the peak theories and hot buttons of supply and demand and by making bold predictions of shocking price advancements to come, they only add more fuel to the bullish fire in a sort of self fulfilling prophecy." — National Gas Week, September 5, 2005 as reprinted in the US Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations’ report, "The Role of Market Speculation in Rising Oil and Gas Prices," June 27, 2006
A week ago Goldman Sachs issued a new investor note, suggesting that somewhere between six months to two years, the price of oil could go into a "super spike" and prices jump as high as $200 per barrel. It became the major story of the night. Ignored in the reporting frenzy was that many legitimate and well-respected oil analysts dismissed Goldman Sachs’ prediction as groundless.snip..."

snip..."Get ready for the next shock to your system. In the past month we have added 11.9 million barrels of oil into our stock reserves, giving us 32.3 million more barrels of oil than we had on hand January 1. On May 5, we found out that for the second time in as many years, Iran was storing its excess crude oil on tankers in the Persian Gulf, because it had run out of storage space in the desert and was awaiting buyers for its heavy crude. That same day Saudi Arabia cut the discount price for its Arabian Heavy crude to $7.45, hoping to entice more buyers for immediate delivery. We didn’t hear that news, either.snip.."



snip..."That’s right, shipments of oil headed west have shown serious declines during the month of April, down 800,000 barrels per day in the week before the publication of the report. Now, let me give you the first line from under the Westbound Oil shipments chart: "In the west, a big share of any stock building done this year has happened offshore, out of sight."

Could this be true? Oil Movements, the unimpeachable source for finding the real world situation on oil transits, is saying that oil is being hidden offshore, not declared in inventories? Yes, that is exactly what they are saying.

That same week our refineries cut their production runs back to 85 percent, down from 89 percent a year ago, to trim more gasoline out of our stock reserves, to increase their profits per gallon....snip"

http://www.star-telegram.com/ed_wallace/story/659081.ht...
2 of 2 snip..." A vote was hurriedly put together before the Clinton White House would take over, and so Lay could finally start "dark" – unregulated – futures trading. The head of the CFTC was Wendy Gramm, wife of Texas Senator Phil Gramm; five weeks after she left, she became a board member of Enron in Houston.

Fast-forward to late 2000 and H.R. 5660, the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000, sponsored by Republican Congressman Thomas Ewing of Illinois. That bill went nowhere, even though Tom Delay’s wife Christine was then working for a Washington lobbying firm, Alexander Strategies – which Enron had paid $200,000 to push through legislation for permanent energy deregulation in these "dark" markets.

Six months later came Senate Bill 3283, also named the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000. This time around the sponsor was Republican Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana, and now Phil Gramm was listed as one of the bill’s co-sponsors. Like it had in the House, this bill was destined to go nowhere until, late one night, it was attached as a rider to an 11,000-page appropriations bill – which was signed into law by President Clinton.

Now traders had an officially deregulated market for energy futures. Worse, that bill also deregulated many financial instruments – including the collateralized debt obligations that are at the center of today’s mortgage crisis, which may well cost us more than $1 trillion before it’s over."

http://www.onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_325...
snip..."Perhaps 60 percent of oil prices today pure speculation

Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley today are the two leading energy trading firms in the United States. Citigroup and JP Morgan Chase are major players and fund numerous hedge funds as well who speculate.

In June 2006, oil traded in futures markets at some $60 a barrel and the Senate investigation estimated that some $25 of that was due to pure financial speculation. One analyst estimated in August 2005 that US oil inventory levels suggested WTI crude prices should be around $25 a barrel, and not $60.

That would mean today that at least $50 to $60 or more of today’s $115 a barrel price is due to pure hedge fund and financial institution speculation. However, given the unchanged equilibrium in global oil supply and demand over recent months amid the explosive rise in oil futures prices traded on NYMEX and ICE exchanges in New York and London, it is more likely that as much as 60 percent of the today oil price is pure speculation. No one knows officially except the tiny handful of energy trading banks in New York and London and they certainly aren’t talking.

By purchasing large numbers of futures contracts, and thereby pushing up futures prices to even higher levels than current prices, speculators have provided a financial incentive for oil companies to buy even more oil and place it in storage. A refiner will purchase extra oil today, even if it costs $115 per barrel, if the futures price is even higher. As a result, over the past two years crude oil inventories have been steadily growing, resulting in US crude oil inventories that are now higher than at any time in the previous eight years. The large influx of speculative investment into oil futures has led to a situation where we have both high supplies of crude oil and high crude oil prices.

Compelling evidence also suggests that the oft-cited geopolitical, economic, and natural factors do not explain the recent rise in energy prices can be seen in the actual data on crude oil supply and demand. Although demand has significantly increased over the past few years, so have supplies.

Over the past couple of years, global crude oil production has increased along with the increases in demand; in fact, during this period global supplies have exceeded demand, according to the US Department of Energy. The US Department of Energy’s Energy Information Administration (EIA) recently forecast that in the next few years global surplus production capacity will continue to grow to between 3 and 5 million barrels per day by 2010, thereby “substantially thickening the surplus capacity cushion.”
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CountAllVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. I happen to have heard that last week
Edited on Mon Jun-16-08 09:43 AM by CountAllVotes
thanks for posting the links to all of it.

Quite the scam I'd say!

:thumbsup: for posting this information.

CountAllVotes

:kick:
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
16. Hadn't happened since the OPEC Oil Embargo in the '70s
How little we have learned from the last time the oil companies had us over a barrel.


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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
17. One has to live near the border to take advantage of that
How will the oil companies get around this?
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
20. But, but, it's a national oil company! Petroleos Mexicanos, PEMEX.
All those Californians should be ashamed of themselves -- believing that they're paying less for nationalized gasoline than for good, old American, private-sector gasoline. And believing it only on the shaky basis that it's what they experience. Don't they realize that RW ideology is supposed to trump reality?
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douglas9 Donating Member (762 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
24. Border gas stations losing business to Mexico pumps
Source: San Antonio Express News

LAREDO — With his sales down 40 percent and talk of border residents filling up in Mexico, Laredo Shell station owner Manuel Arechiga took his diesel pickup across the border to see what the story was.

Sure enough, he was able to fill his tank for about $70, as opposed to about $145 at his own station in Texas.

The kick is that fuel is being refined in the United States and trucked across the border to Mexico, only to be sold at prices subsidized by the government there to protect the Mexican consumer — prices that are now cutting into his business.

Arechiga brought some diesel back, put it in a clear bottle and compared it with his own product. It was identical.

Read more: http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/stories/MYSA061608.1A.BorderGas.3ffc650.html
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DUlover2909 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. So the Mexicans pay their citizens to consume fossil fuels
instead of taxing them? We should put a stop to that. We can. We're the US. We can do anything.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. You've seen Mexico, right?
It's got very long distances between populated places, and no money to spend on new high-tech non-fossil-fuel-consuming vehicles.

Some leftists don't like to admit it, but at this juncture fossil fuels are what we got.
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DUlover2909 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. People used horses for centuries and got by just fine.
I would love to have a horse in the city. If our cities were set up with stables and less compact I would gladly have one. I love horses. Travel would take longer, so I would have to wake up earlier but I don't care. People and society need to adapt. Don't be surprised if people start using mules and horses soon.
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. The idea of horses in the city is a romantasized view.
The sheer number in a place like NY would not be a pretty sight (or smell).

Now in rural areas where mass electric transit is not practical, I think the horse will make a comeback.

In fact, on a farm in Rehoboth, MA that I drive by frequently, I saw something new this week: A work wagon being pulled but some HUGE work horses.

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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. Then you would have the animal rights crowd mad at you.
Or at least that segment that doesn't believe humans should exploit animals for any reason.
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. They will have to stop it eventually...
once they stop being a net oil exporter, and with Americans buying gas that is being subsidized by the Mexican government that just means it will happen that much faster.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Capitalism is at work here?
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mikeytherat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #24
30. Warning! Science Content!
"Arechiga brought some diesel back, put it in a clear bottle and compared it with his own product. It was identical."

Well, if they look the same in a clear bottle, they must be identical! Reminds me of the poem I learned in middle school chemistry:

Little Johnny Smith will be with us no more
For what he thought was H20 was H2SO4


mikey_the_rat
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
34. This is why Texas is building that huge super highway to facilitate trade.
All those former Texas oil men want american's buying gas in Mexi..wait..um..that makes no sense at all.
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melm00se Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
35. the same thing happened in the 70's:
folks went over the border to Canada to buy gas as it was significantly cheaper there.
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
37. I'm wondering. If that keeps up to such an extent,
what is the likelihood that California would try and tie on a use tax on gasoline purchased outside of its borders as a means to make up for the lost gasoline tax revenue (the same way states have use taxes on goods purchased out of state where the state's sales tax was not paid).

Just things I think about in my copious spare time.
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