Obama promises tuition tax credit

[Cirque du So-What]

Source: Associated Press

Obama promises tuition tax credit

By NEDRA PICKLER – 2 hours ago

TAYLOR, Mich. (AP) — Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama recalled paying off his own mountain of student loan debt and promised struggling college students Tuesday he would help them pay for school.

Obama said he would give students a $4,000 tax credit to help pay tuition and fees in exchange for 100 hours of community service. The campaign said the program would cost $10 billion a year.

"You get a hand living your dreams, and then you help your fellow citizens live theirs," the Illinois senator told a small group of students in a courtyard at Wayne County Community College. He listened as they told stories of balancing family demands, high fuel prices and school costs.

The event combined a couple of campaign goals, stressing Obama's plans to help Americans struggling in a tough economy while showing voters in the critical swing state of Michigan more about his modest roots.

Read more: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hDz006qxJ-xRhnqo56MoC3t2OllgD91C296OA

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Sounds like a helluva good plan to me. This will enable thousands of students to attend college who simply didn't have the means previously. I consider the community service as a benefit to society as well as to those who participate in the deal.

[jody]

1. "100 hours of community service"? If implemented it will be a joke for many. I wish Obama would

think through such things before he goes public.

[Cirque du So-What]

3. A $4,000 tax credit

doesn't sound like much of a 'joke.'

[jody]

5. "$4,000 tax credit . . . in exchange for 100 hours of community service." I don't object to a tax

credit but it just adds another level of bureaucracy to require 100 hours of community service.

[ozone_man]

10. I tend to agree.

A tax credit for education should not have any strings attached, though if there really has to be something to sell the plan, community service isn't a bad way to sell it.

I believe in socialized education, so anything less than free tuition for college is a short coming.

[DebJ]

15. But the rethugs might buy it if it looks like it must be 'earned'

somehow. You see, only those born with a silver spoon need do absolutely nothing.

[truebrit71]

42. Why? Don't most high schools require 40 hours of community service per year prior to graduation?

I know that is the case for my kid's school...she volunteers at the local food pantry...the kid puts in waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over 40 hours though so this 100 hours thing will be a breeze....

Great idea!

[jody]

47. I don't know how many schools require community service for graduation. n/t

[Nevernose]

52. It's kind of a recent fad

Although I'm sure some stats have been doing it for decades, it's a fad catching on more and more. There was something in the NEA magazine about it a year or two ago. All I remember offhand is that one state -- North Carolina, I believe -- requires 200 hours. It's a lot more than 40, but it only works out to be an hour a week during one's high school years.

I wish more states would do this. I've been bringing it up in my own state, but there's probably too much of a Libertarian paradigm for it to ever pass muster politically. It's a great way for upper and middle class kids to "see how the other half lives" as well as give something back to the community, and for the poorer kids, it's probably even more important for them to be shown that they can make a difference in their world.

No, most states don't yet have a community service requirement.

[darue]

54. that's not even minimum wage and it's just going to turn into a scam n/t

[uppityperson]

2. This sounds very interesting. Thanks for posting this, will be watching for it.

[darkmaestro019]

4. I like it

That'd definitely be enough to get my foot in the door in a community college and once there I could bust my ass to get good enough grades to get academic scholarships, maybe. As it is right now it's as out of reach as ever having a down payment for (um, anything) takes too much to get started!

And Hell knows there are a brazilian local issues and needs this would be a great benefit to....

That's only two weeks of fulltime work--easy to work into even an already busy schedule....

[Cleita]

6. We need better than that.

We need free tuition up and through Phds. for students who can achieve that far or as far as they can go like in Sweden. As they say a mind is a terrible thing to waste just because a person is poor.

[AlphaCentauri]

9. Totally agree

I can't see any improvement in education cutting taxes and not liberating the smart poor off the chains of poverty.

This must be a Reagan joke.

[OhioChick]

22. Agreed.

When will the kids have time to hold a job to pay for that remainder?

[djp2]

7. Parents?

how do parents get the credit, paying their kid way through college? My "Cheap" state University (UCLA) runs around $8000 for tuition, $10,000 for room/board, and a few thousand more for books each year, for around $20,000 a year. I don't get this. It really doesn't help students or parents. Students have to find time to do the service (Summer, what about summer jobs?) and Parents don't get the break putting the kids through. We need a straight TAX DEDUCTION for Tuition costs!!!

[Igel]

45. It's 100 hours.

Most semesters are 15 weeks, plus finals; if the school has 3 10-week terms, no difference in time spent in session over the school year. That's 3 1/3 hours per week, while school's in session. When I was in grad school, people spent almost that much time watching the Simpsons and Steinfeld. For $40/hour, it's not bad at all.

Then there are breaks: Thanksgiving, winter, and spring. Most students that don't have part-time jobs local to campus may go home, but they don't work. That's three weeks, 33 1/3 hours per week, in which to do their service without touching summer break.

Plus, this is a tax credit, not a deduction. You get to the appropriate line in the 1040, and where it says "taxes paid" you write in "$4000". If you've paid exactly the right amount of taxes and would have nothing due or coming back, suddenly there's be a $4k refund. If you pay 25% in taxes, the $4k credit is equivalent to a $16k deduction.

[AlphaCentauri]

8. That's not enough, education and health care should be a right

not part of a free market. I'm not going to base my vote on this single issue but I'll see many things I will not agree with Obama, this maybe the first one, health care may be the second one.

Jesus, I don't want to go back to the XX century to vote for the less evil just because there is no other choice.

[Indenturedebtor]

11. Who had a free education platform? and 4k will pay for most

I think his idea is a fantastic one and will do a great deal of good for society. Both the students and the recipients of that community service will benefit.

Complain all the way until you see a gang of 20 somethings roaming your neighborhood planting trees and mentoring kids.

Most state schools don't cost 10k a year. 4k will pay for most, they just won't cover the books.

[AlphaCentauri]

12. I want to see the Brightest Kids going to college not the ones who have the most money

Make the community service 6 month long or a year but give those kids the opportunity to develop their talent, don't make them slaves of the market.

There is a cost sheet here:
http://www.universitylanguage.com/guides/how-much-will-a-us-college-education-cost/

[defendandprotect]

21. Everyone should have the opportunity if they wish to go -- including older people ---

Of course our universities have been turned into corporations now ---
and prices are very different -- but we could state by state have a pool of funds
for this purpose with low repayment schedules ---
Please see my comments below re Sen. Bradley --

[demmiblue]

27. 4K will not pay for most.

Double that for tuition alone... double again for boarding, books, and personal expenses.

[Indenturedebtor]

30. Well most satellite campuses anyways

This would be a huge help for students and would do much to get people involved in their communities.

[LeftyMom]

33. No, it won't.

Shit, books alone are more than a grand a year, and that's for general ed.

[Indenturedebtor]

38. Has it gone up that much in 5 years?

Holy hell. When I went to Indiana University it was about 2700 a semester before books and board. Now granted that's a state school, but a pretty good one... and it's satellites were cheaper.

[djp2]

28. Room/Board?

Where can you go for 4Grand a year? Room and Board will add another $10,000 if your kid is living on campus!

[Indenturedebtor]

29. Job? Roomates?

It's not perfect but this is a revolutionary program folks.

[djp2]

53. Roommates???!!???

My daughter paid $9500 for room and board at UCLA in a triple, plus one girl's live-in boyfriend for 2+ months before we got him kicked out!

[customerserviceguy]

13. Can I be the turd in the punchbowl here?

Are all educations equal? Does an art history major have as much chance of contributing to society as a nurse? Every time we spend tax dollars on public works, we have an open process that determines where the money gets spent, as far as usefulness. Yes, we get a few bridges to nowhere, but more often than not, we get infrastructure that a goodly number of people need.

I question a tuition tax credit for everyone no matter what, why not target them towards the occupations that are really needed in this country? Oh, and I speak as a person who has a recent two-year degree in network administration, received five years ago this month, and completely unused. The taxpayers of the state of Washington (where I lived when I got it) wasted their money on me. I'm certain they wasted vast sums of money on people getting degrees in things that they're not doing either.

[DebJ]

14. Let's require that everyone take government, politics and history

even if it is for an art major. People need to read before they vote.

[customerserviceguy]

17. I'm in favor of a broad-based education

but even then, some degrees are fundamentally worthless in even a growing economy. I'd suggest we have a commission sit down, gather some evidence, and decide which ones are worthy of 100% support with Senator Obama's tuition credit. I pick nursing as an example, since a perusal of employment ads shows that there is a need for this skill, and with an aging population, this is likely to continue.

Can we reasonably say the same thing about classical music majors?

[defendandprotect]

25. Worth---? What you are saying is that people should be educated for a market ---

No -- people should have the right to educate themselves according to their own interests ---

their education should be for themselves, not for corporations ---

Again -- arts and humanities would help us see that that point!

Once you have an education --- can read, write, whatever --- corporations can train people

as they used to do --- they don't want to do that any longer.

They want people to come ready-made from schools like little robots ready to do their work.

Life and education should not be decided by demands/needs of corporations -- !!!

[customerserviceguy]

37. You used the magic words "educate themselves"

I have no problem with anybody spending their own, or their parents' money studying anything they want, my problem is giving them thousands of dollars out of the public treasury (in addition to the tax support that state schools already have, and the tax exemption that private schools already enjoy) just to piddle away on degrees that have little or no ability to give tax dollars back to the society that provided them.

If I can decry a bridge to nowhere, built purely as pork to get a congresscritter's vote for some other lobbyist-inspired pork, then its consistent for me to question the value of educations that only make one a more interesting conversationalist while making coffee at Starbuck's.

[defendandprotect]

40. One can "educate themselves" by many means . . .

totally on their own or by selecting classes/courses that interest them ---

It's part of your path of self-discovery --

We've been starving our school systems --- as the GOP has been dedicated to eleminating
public education!

That's why the burden has been transferred to property taxes creating an uneven situation
across the country between rich and poor communities ---

Re this . . .

"-just to piddle away on degrees that have little or no ability to give tax dollars back to the society that provided them."

You have preconceived ideas about the value of learning/education which IMO don't hold up.
We have educated many now in medicine --- yet we have more diseases than we had before and
America has a very low ranking worldwide in medical care --- 37th or lower!!!

We've had lawyers approving torture --

Supreme Court judges who aided an election steal --

We have people with journalism degrees telling lies for their corporations ---

If you want to base your life and society's health on "dollar bills" then I think this is what
you end up with ---

If we want positive change, we have to rethink what we are doing ---

[customerserviceguy]

48. Self discover all you want

but why do others have to pay any more for it than is already being expended on educational institutions? You mention property taxes as bearing the burden of education, but that's just pre-college education. It would be the income tax that bears the burden of fat college tuition credits for everyone (and we already have the Hope credit, and the Lifelong Learning credit), or it gets added to the national debt.

My "preconceived ideas" come from my own experience, and that of others around me. We have a vast amount of overeducated people, who spent time, their money, and taxpayer money on educations that have zero to do with the jobs they currently hold, if they do hold jobs. Just like the food stamp program is about supporting farmers rather than feeding people, the educational tax credits are about feeding an educational bureaucracy that has run amok. The more you feed the beast, the hungrier it will get.

As for basing things on "dollar bills", I say let people find their own means of pursuing educations that are iffy in terms of producing a return on the investment of real dollar bills that come out of government treasuries. Maybe you think government education money just falls out of the sky, but I happen to believe it comes from somewhere, and that's either a pocket that's here today, or that person's grandchildren's pockets.

Some of what you say is outlandish, we have more diseases today? Maybe its from those who do post-graduate work 'discovering' crap we never knew we had a generation or two ago. As far as educating lawyers who break the law, well, I will give you that. I'd cut law schools off at the knees, we already have plenty of ambulance chasers out there.

[comtec]

36. already required as a part of GE

Which you would know if you went through college.
The GE courses are broad, but there are certain subjects you can NOT get away from, history, government, and sciences.

That said, is this 4k per year, or ONCE?

I would also point out California already has a top 1% rule (or is it top 10) where kids get a complete free ride at California UNIVERSITIES if they are in that top 1% of their school, regardless of WHERE that school is.

Can someone help me with the specifics of that?

[defendandprotect]

24. Please see my comments below ...

There's a lot of game playing going on re education ---
mainly the elites are trying to ensure that we return to a time when only the few
rich got the paper ---

And our universities have been turned into corporations ---
with salaries and tuition more like those of CEO's ---

I think that both nurses and art and history majors are equally important --
What we need to change is our slash and burn medicine ---
and history written by only white males ---
Sometimes it takes art and humanity for us to see that --- !!


We need to reexamine life and the rigid ideas handed down to us ---
obviously patriarchy, organized patriarchal religions and capitalism are suicidal
concepts --- as are "Manifest Destiny" and "Man's Dominion Over Nature" --

Meanwhile, there is much to think about re Global Warming and how much time we have left.

[Indenturedebtor]

31. I agree with all of your statement except that about salaries

Professors are not very well paid for what they know and what they have to do to become professors. Much of the university functions only because it has a pool of very cheap labor in the undergrad and graduate students.

NO ONE goes into research/academia for the money. The main issue with rising tuitions is that Universities are powerful enough to pay their employees a living wage that keeps up with inflation, and their costs go up accordingly.

[defendandprotect]

41. Do you mean state colleges . . .

I presume that's lower ---

but our major universities --- Boston University --- Harvard --- MIT -- have been turned into corporations and military/research arms of government --

Certainly the presidents there have been paid CEO type salaries ---
BU has expanded with unbelievable investments in real estate ---

I know SOME professors were making salaries exceeding $120,000 even 20 years ago ---
not all, of course.

Granted, these are hierarchies --- which is the way that capitalism runs its world.

Decisions made at the top --- benefits at the top ---

What I am basically saying is that even if you only looked back 30 years on these universities
the changes are frightening!!!

[Indenturedebtor]

43. Actually I do only have insight into state schools

My wife is a program manager here at UofA, and her father is a professor at IU - both state schools.

And yes some presidents do make CEO type salaries, but nothing anywhere approaching 1 mil a year much less 360 million a year or what not.

I wouldn't know about the private institutions though.

[defendandprotect]

49. I've lost track of it myself --

so I can only speak of dated info --
and at the moment I can't think of the former pres of BU --- before Lawrence --
Just outrageous in the deals he made for his own salary and benefits ---
and the real estate stuff that went on ---

... and everywhere students/families being burdened with heavy increases in tuition ---
I can't imagine what the room and board, etal is now!!

[ileus]

16. Finally something for my family...

[Jakes Progress]

18. A step in the right direction,

but I wonder why everything has to be tied to taxes. How about going back to government loan program. Borrow from the gov, and the debt is proportionately forgiven based on the amount of public service. Tax credits are just a way to look like you're cutting taxes and not having the government loan program is just a way for banks to keep making money while being underwritten with our taxes. Way too complicated. Way too much a corporate model.

[defendandprotect]

19. This is another issue where we could simply start a fund and send every kid to college ---

every kid who wanted to go, that is ---

I remember when Sen. Bill Bradley/NJ was still in Congress --- it was something
he used to talk about---

Look at the pressure on families --- the pressure on kids --- the loans!!!

All of that to accomplish what we could all do together and so much easier!!!


Actually, every state could probably do this on their own ---

[defendandprotect]

20. Strange, but I was just looking thru some old journals and the book ...

opened to this page from 12-12-91 . . .

"Sen. Bill Bradley/NJ --
A new tax on millionaries to give $33,00 per year to any one up to 50 years of age to get a college eductation with a 1% deduction from their earnings every year to repay the loans ---"

[nycdemocratico]

23. This will help people of all ages, not only young

Older people many times choose to go to college again and pursue a career that they really like.
I, for example, went for Graphic Design when in fact my passion if History. I plan to become a History major.

[defendandprotect]

26. People should be able to follow their interests as they mature ---

and even change their minds --- or simply to broaden their education/interests ---

[Indenturedebtor]

32. I agree in a perfect world. But we need to see after the first go through first

Then we can worry about continuing education imo.

[defendandprotect]

39. Let's not adapt ourselves to capitalistic ideas . . . .

which have already done such great harm -- domestically and internationally.

Time for change --- and changing one's thinking is the beginning of it ---

[Indenturedebtor]

44. Well personally I'm an American Socialist -

Meaning that I want to see no one want for food, housing, or medical care. Beyond that I think that things should be pretty much open to market forces with regulation to ensure that no concentrations of power stifle competition or accessibility to the market.

The problem with our current brand of capitalism is that we've allowed the wealth and power to be too concentrated together... which is in itself anti-free market.

Our university system does need to be quite a bit more accessible, but I don't want to see a completely state run University system. I think that the quality of education and research would plummet through the basement if we went down that road.

[defendandprotect]

50. UN Declaration of Human Rights . . .

I'm with you . . .

However, "market forces" can be a bit misleading --
unreglated capitalism is a ridiculous King-of-the-Hill system --
and we more often have welfare for the rich and free enerprise for the poor --

I also think "competition" is more of a problem than a benefit in many cases --
First, we hear a lot about competition and capitalism . . . but in reality
capitalism isn't about competition, it's about killing the competition.

I've seen "competition" in sports turning into something absolutely perverse --
not only on the national level -- Olympic organization, for example! --
but in my town one of our soccer fields was covered with $1 million worth of artiificial
turf!!!
Six/Eight year olds are parading around in uniforms which seem identical to major league
equipment ---
And on the fields every kind of professional accessory to simulate the "real thing" -- !!


There's always been a problem with capitalism . . and FDR recognized that if he didn't
regulate it, capitalism would be gone.
I think we've reached that point again because they have succeeded in knocking out the
New Deal regulations and are close to bankrupting our Treasury ---
Unregulated capitalism is merely organized crime.

I think we still have anti-trust laws on the records ---

Everyone should and could have access to higher education --- or any education of any kind.
We've had video available for decades now. Many professors could be taped and the programs
made available to anyone who wanted them. We could arrange for credit or not.
We could have our finest instructors educating not one classroom, but millions!

Education is of upside down interest to the wealthy --
they want WORKERS educated like robots to turn out ready made for their sites --
they don't want to provide training any longer --

Meanwhile, they fear liberal educations where people are educated according to
their own interests -- and encouraged to think for themselves and to think critically.

And, overall, they are really made nervous by an educated public ---
and would prefer to prevent that!

[LeftyMom]

34. Tax credit plans only help if you make enough to pay significant income taxes.

For students like me in what's technically known as the "broke as fuck" tax bracket, an income tax credit would do precisely dick, because I don't make enough to pay any significant amount in taxes, let alone enough to offset a four thousand dollar liability.

If you want to help students, increase Pell Grants and reform the student loan industry.

[NuttyFluffers]

35. yup, students start out not making enough.

so how does a discount on their taxes help them? it doesn't, that's how. and for people who it would matter the community service becomes a waste compared to just working more and paying off more of the debt. it attempts to help people who don't need it, while placing a hurdle to prevent them from even bothering. an utter waste of ink and words, this is.

less lip service, more real change. free books, free money, regulated loan industry, or cheaper tuitions. anything else is pandering.

[Igel]

46. I read it as "tax credit", not as tax deduction.

There's a world of difference.

I wonder if the article's correct.

[Heddi]

51. How will I fit in 100 hours while going to school AND working full time?

When I was in a full time nursing program, I also worked full time. I had nary a moment to spare between working, schooling, preparing for school, studying, winding down from studying, getting off work...and that's not including the "frivilious" things in life like, you know, eating, sleeping, and taking the occasional shower.

Now I'm a nurse and I feel that I contribute FAR more to my local community than 100 hours would ever achieve. I work long hours, I get shit for pay, and I work with the throw-aways of society that proper and good people want nothing to do with for fear that they may catch "teh poverty" or some such nonsense. I wipe ass, clean up puke, am a councelor, a preist, a mother, a loved one, a nurse, a doctor and a babysitter for 12 hours a night.

I think that an education tax credit is great, but for people who NEED to work full time in order to go to school full time, such a thing would leave us out in the cold.

If I don't have time to grocery shop for 3 weeks because of school and work, I certainly don't have time to read to the blind for 2 hours a week, either.