Immunity likely for phone companies in spy bill

[maddezmom]

Source: Reuters

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. phone companies would be shielded from potentially billions of dollars in lawsuits under an anti-terror spy measure that appears headed toward approval, congressional sources said on Wednesday.

House of Representatives Democratic Leader Steny Hoyer, a lead negotiator on the bill, said, "We're very close to having an agreement," and a House vote could come as early as Friday.

Democratic and Republican aides and a lobbyist familiar with negotiations said the House would likely approve the measure overwhelmingly. Despite opposition from its top two Democrats, the Senate would then likely give it final approval, clearing the way for President George W. Bush to sign it into law.

Bush has been pushing for retroactive immunity for any telephone company that participated in warrantless domestic surveillance program he began after the September 11 attacks.



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080618/pl_nm/usa_surveillance_dc;_

---

HOWTO: Analyze Immunity Provisions in FISA Legislation

Posted by Kurt Opsahl

Members of Congress are currently negotiating language for Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) legislation, with reports saying that a deal is imminent. As early as this week, Congress may be voting on this legislation, which will determine whether or not telecommunications companies will be given immunity against lawsuits for their illegal participation in the President's warrantless surveillance program. While it's certain that the legislation will be touted as a compromise by its supporters, all reports indicate that the legislation's aim will be to provide blanket immunity for lawbreaking phone companies.

In analyzing the bill's final language, the key question is simple: "Will the court be able to rule on whether the telecoms broke the law?" Reporters, activists, bloggers, and political commentators should keep asking this question until the proponents provide a clear answer.

If the answer is "no", and the language fails this simple litmus test, then the purported "compromise" is still immunity, period. If the court is not allowed to rule on the legality of the surveillance, then the statute is nothing more than an attempt to sweep critical issues of Presidential power and personal privacy under the rug, and prevent meaningful judicial scrutiny of the warrantless surveillance program.

So, let's put a few of the proposals we've seen through the paces:

more:http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/06/howto-analyze-immunity-provisions-fisa-legislation

[global1]

1. Partners In Crime - Complicit - Just As Bad As Bush......nt

[Teaser]

2. fuck them

.

[mikelgb]

3. Calling Russ Feingold

[villager]

4. as much as I want to be hopeful, what does an Obama presidency do about seedy bagmen like Hoyer

...still bent over to do their masters' bidding in Congress?

[The Stranger]

5. Traitors to the People, these "Democrats."

[FreeStateDemocrat]

6. No surprise, I've been looking for a third party option since Edwards was kicked to the curb.

Hate to say it but Nader is right when he says boths parties are corporate controlled whores. Fuck the ruling class, voted Democratic since JFK but not this year, won't get fooled again.

[fasttense]

7. Time to flood congress for the third time.

Tell Congress "No Deal on Telecom Immunity"

A new FISA bill is being drafted behind closed doors. Although it may appear quiet on the Hill right now, reports indicate that high-ranking Republicans and Democrats are hoping that a "compromise" foreign intelligence surveillance bill can be rushed through both the House and the Senate before the July 4th holiday -- maybe even this week.

https://secure.eff.org/site/Advocacy?alertId=387&pg=makeACall

[Pavulon]

8. Guys, did you really expect NSA

operational details to go to discovery? I believe this falls under the never going to happen category.

[Arctic Dave]

24. Why do think that holding politicians and corporations accountable for

illegal wiretapping will illuminate or impede how the NSA works? Why would that even be an issue? Politician tells corporation to wiretap, corporation obliges even though they know it to be illegal. How does this have anything to do with NSA security? NSA may have used their infrastructure to "sift" through info but they are not the ones who instigated the command.

Edit for spelling. Fat fingers.

[Pavulon]

25. San Fran case and EFF

as well as how the phone companies handled data is all operational. Now we can out it, but then we just have to pay billions to replace the system we kill. The morons in san fran are throwing around diagrams and boms of hardware, over a lost promotion.

The issue is redirection. In theory all data is interlaced, there is no way for the company to tell if the content on a phone, frame relay, or mpls link is domestic or international. So in theory it must all be processed.

Big corporations are not in the business of categorizing the data, certainly not even sifting it.

Not like we are going out of the signal intelligence business.

This needs to be handled behind closed doors, like it always has been.

[Arctic Dave]

31. I agree, it should be held behind closed doors but

people do need to be held accountable no matter what position or company. Thanks for the comment.

[primavera]

33. That's the bottomline

I too question whether it would really be necessary to compromise NSA's legitimate operational details in order to hold the Bushista junta and the telecom industry accountable for their illegal activities, but, even if it were necessary, I would still say that accountability takes priority. As far as I'm concerned, in a society in which rule of law is supposed to prevail, there is no justification for placing anyone above the law. There is zero wiggle room on that issue. If we accept that the rule of law can just be set aside whenever a handful of officials tell us that it's none of the public's business because there's a "national security" issue at stake, what is there to prevent unethical officials from carrying out egregious crimes and escaping justice by simply blanketing their atrocities in the cloak of "national security"?

National security is a fine and worthwhile goal, but it can't be the only consideration. If the physical safety of the country were our only priority, then we should never have intervened and ejected Saddam Hussein from Kuwait, we should never have involved ourselves in the Second World War in Europe, we should never have fought the was of independence and should have remained a British colony. Every person we suspect of ever having committed a violent criminal act should be immediately put to death - how else can you guarantee that they won't go out and harm someone else? Physical safety is not a promise a free democratic society has to offer. Government of the people, by the people, and for the people is. If we start exempting officials whenever they claim that they're acting in the name of national security, then all of the sacrifices made throughout this country's history in order to build a free and open society have been in vain.

If it should come to pass that holding the Bushista junta and their corporate partners in crime accountable did compromise our national security, then the blame for that lies squarely at the feet of those who perpetrated the crimes, not at the system which holds them accountable for having committed the crimes in the first place.

[Arctic Dave]

38. Well said. Thank you. n/t

[Phred42]

9. HOYER & PELOSI MUST BE REMOVED - NOW!

Democracy cannot survive with Democrats protecting the Reich.

[surf]

10. I don't mind shielding them from lawsuits,

After all, its all about money, But if they knowingly broke the law there should be no protection from prosecution.

[The Stranger]

11. That's a good one. As if some low level fool being prosecuted would change jack shit.

Civil liability is the only way to get to Big Corporation.

[BklnDem75]

14. If they didn't break the law, there'd be no lawsuits.

Isn't that why it's retroactive immunity? :shrug:

[dkofos]

12. It seems to be all about the money (losses from lawsuits). They don't give a shit

about the PEOPLES rights.

Time to vote them all out and start over.

[cascadiance]

13. I guess my big question is if later we can retroactively get rid of the retroactive crap here!

... or once the congressional WHORES pass this mess, these companies are forever off the hook. If we can fix this later, then all the more we should say that they WILL be replaced later and will bear some of the retroactive PROSECUTION later for these crimes that they are complicit in trying to let these bums off the hook with!

[Indenturedebtor]

15. Ok now I'm really starting to question my allegiance to the Dem Party n/t

[knixphan]

16. we need a list of the 'dems' who vote against our interests

[HughMoran]

17. Noooooo oooooooooo oooooooooo oooooooooo oooooooo !!!111!!

Fuckin' whores

[bean fidhleir]

18. I wonder which politicians are being paid off, and how the payoff will work

Some insider stock tips or something like that, I suppose.

Like that study that showed senators making out like bandits, outrageously more than could be expected by chance, on their investments compared to other people.

[Triana]

19. GODDAMN them!

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[bluesmail]

20. NO!

[Solly Mack]

21. ::::insert various words of outrage::::

ho hum...(whodathunkit?)

[Jefferson23]

22. What a fucking sick joke these folks are. Screw you Hoyer!

[McCamy Taylor]

23. WTF! They are blackmailing eveyone including Congress and this is how Congress responds?

By giving them immunity to blackmail? Are they insane? Or just too scared of being the next Eliot Spitzer?

[blackspade]

26. Cough* Bullshit *Cough

My loathing for Congress only increases.

[dysfunctional press]

27. i may have to just sit this selection out...what's the point anymore?

i hope i live to see the revolution.

[truedelphi]

28. Ssh!! Please don't let the secret out of the bag.

The M$M needs us to be in suspense and plugged in to the latest candidate scandal or talking point.

And like good little children who believe in Santa, we need to believe in those elections.

Without our believing in those elections, how can we call ourselves a democracy??

[AlphaCentauri]

29. first immunity next censorship

http://www.lockergnome.com/theoracle/2008/06/17/verizon-and-newsgroups/

Beyond the loss of alt.* newsgroups, there are countless others which are being lost through Verizon’s servers. (the old FIDO.net groups are just some)

The deception is probably the biggest part of this problem for me. Verizon is allowing the AG of New York to be the scapegoat, drawing much of the ire from the cheated customers, while allowing the company to avoid the expenditure of a buildout of its news servers to keep up with the demand caused by the FiOS expansion.

[OneBlueSky]

30. isn't the fact that they need immunity an admission of guilt? . . .

and why can't Congress wrap their tiny little brains around this fact and conclude that "AHA . . . something's fishy here!" . . .

[lovuian]

32. Thank you democratic Congress you give them immunity

you give him Mukasey you give him money for his war you don't impeach him


dang someone tell me what do they do for the People????

[KansDem]

34. Hey, Congress! The next time I break the law, will you make me immune from prosecution?

Huh??? Willya???

Fuck you!

[AlphaCentauri]

35. All depend on your donation

how many congressman can you afford?

[knixphan]

36. seconded.

[Krashkopf]

37. CALL EVERY MEMBER OF THE DEMOCRATIC LEADERSHIP!

Any Democratic "leaders" in the House or Senate who support this craven capitulation is a spineless jellyfish, and should be challenged in the next round of primaries.

If the Congressional Democrats cave in to the WORST, MOST UNPOPULAR president in American history, and accept his attacks on the Constitution, I will never send another penny to the DNC, or the DCCC or SDCC. Fuck 'em all . . . and I'm a Democratic Precinct Captain!

Hey Nancy, Hey Steny, lead, or get the hell out of the way!

Here is the Congressional switch board number: 202-224-0994.

And here his Howard Dean's number at the DNC. I just gave them an earful!: 202-863-8000

[PassingFair]

39. What the hell does Howard have to do with this?

Stick with your Senators and your Congressman...

If you feel like talking to or about the
likely suspects, call the DLC, the "New Dems"
and the "Blue Dog Coalition".

Those are the democrats likely to pass
an immunity bill.

[Krashkopf]

41. As Chairman of the DNC Howard controls the Party's Purse Strings.

Hit 'em where they hurt!

[PassingFair]

43. You want to hurt the entire Democratic Party and all of it's candidates?

Not to mention our chances of the presidency in November?

Perhaps you are posting on the wrong site.

[Krashkopf]

45. My Loyalty to the Democratic Party . . .

is directly related to the Democratic Party's loyalty to the Consitution and the Rule of Law. If they don't support US, I won't support them.

[PassingFair]

46. Most of them DO support us.

Take your well deserved rage out on the
ones that don't.

Makes sense, yes?

The Democratic Party is the
only group with the power and
numbers to help.

There are bad apples, and they
SHOULD be knocked from the tree.

Howard Dean and the DNC are the GOOD GUYS.

[MilesColtrane]

40. Find your Representative here:

http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/

Phone or email with this:

"I am a constituent and I respectfully urge to reject any false compromises on telecom immunity. Recent descriptions of a purported "compromise" proposal make clear that although some cosmetic changes have been made, the bill would still provide blanket immunity for telephone companies that cooperated with the President’s warrantless wiretapping program, and would still prevent any court from ruling on whether they broke the law.

Americans who have had their privacy violated by lawbreaking telecoms deserve their day in court. Please reject any FISA legislation that includes telecom immunity. Thank you for your time."

Do it now. The vote may be tommorrow morning.

[Zachstar]

42. The fuckers who call themselves democrats and go with this better start pissing their pants now.

The game is changing and we are going to find and support challengers to your sorry asses. I will laugh each and every time we politically destroy each and every one of these traitor fucks.

[PassingFair]

44. KICK...

Call NOW....

operators are standing by.