House Democrats call for nationalization of refineries

[RamboLiberal]

Source: Fox News

House Democrats responded to President's Bush's call for Congress to lift the moratorium on offshore drilling. This was at an on-camera press conference fed back live.

Among other things, the Democrats called for the government to own refineries so it could better control the flow of the oil supply.

They also reasserted that the reason the Appropriations Committee markup (where the vote on the amendment to lift the ban) was cancelled so they could focus on preparing the supplemental Iraq spending bill for tomorrow.

At an off-camera briefing, House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-MD) said the same. And a senior Republican House Appropriations Committee aide adds that "there were multiple reasons for the postponement" including discussion on the supplemental. But the aide said there was the thought that Democrats may wish to avoid a debate today on energy amendments.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/urgent_queue/index.html#a54ef44,2008-06-18

[VP505]

1. "Democrats called for the government to own refineries "

Excellent response, now lets see how serious the Reptilians really are, likely though it will get some heads exploding and then the issue will be dropped, LOL!

[Indenturedebtor]

2. Wow nationalise refineries eh? Fantastico n/t

[and-justice-for-all]

3. Yes!! Nationalize ALL natural resources!!

But I do question the source of this info...'faux noise'

[BigDaddy44]

14. Food too?

[and-justice-for-all]

24. regulated more, but perhaps not Nationalized...nt

[mtf80123]

4. Nationalize now

Energy and Health Care.

Both need to be nationalized now for the sustainment of our future as a Nation and civilized society.

[mhatrw]

29. Don't forget the defense industry. Take the profit out of warfare and most wars will end. n/t

[Xenotime]

46. Agreed 100%

[jwirr]

5. LOL They want to drill - we want to refine - stalemate. nt

[ohio2007]

6. Didn't they vote to privatize a restaurant in the house? but they wanna manage the oil bidness?

Maybe we will be able to vote for gas station attendants lol
good luck getting the military to side with the marshall law planning behind the seizure.

[Heywood J]

12. Yeah, I mean who wants to pay market value or less for the refineries, and

have stable, steady gas prises and incremental increases, where any profits can be returned to the treasury for other programs or debt repayment, when you can just get raped by Exxon Mobile and line the CEO's yachts instead. Hur hur hur!


BTW, nobody needs martial law to do that - it's called Eminent Domain and Bush's own Supreme Court ruled that they could do it.

[michreject]

26. Eminent Domain is for the property

not the business that's on it.

[Nihil]

27. You just replied to one such person ...

... mind you, he doesn't have to worry about the fuel costs as he
can just expense it back to his employer ...

[Thothmes]

42. Speaking of Govt managed enterprises

How much profit does the Post Office or Amtrack pour into the U.S. Treasury. How well managed is FEMA. Do you suppose that the same folks that manage FEMA or the VA should be appointed to manage the National Oil Industry. Not a good Idea in my opinion. Regulate and tax is a more practical approach to the oil industry

[Carnea]

34. The restaurant was complicated various meals, special needs, spices, and specialized employees.

Refining is what put oil in one end and the gas comes out the other right. Refineries practically run themselves....

I love our government I think our government should tax and it should redistribute and it should allocate and it can regulate but I'm not sure we should actually let it run anything important. I know big business is often evil and greedy and stupid. But our various governments take this to a whole new level.

Regulate, tax, but let other people run.

[Canuckistanian]

7. Steny Hoyer AGREED?

The sun truly DOES rise in the west.

[harun]

48. I'm thinking it may be a typo :-).

[Ghost Dog]

8. Sounds good, but will they (you) follow-through and make it happen?

(for just a start). Wow, indeed. Come on. You know we have to nationalize all oil (production) majors, just for a start. Let's be serious. :thumbsup:

e: watch out: authorless Adbot below...

[Hulk]

9. Mexico nationalized their oil ...and it's $3.00 a gallon for gas, NOW.

It's gone up about $0.15 in the time it's doubled in the US. Now, you tell me, WHO is ripping off the consumers?

It's time to privatize the oil in the US also. The refineries might be a good first step. Enough is enough. These assholes are ruining our economy....with the help of this criminal administration, of course.

[Carnea]

35. Mexican taxpayer is subsidizing the gas price. Mexico is running out of oil and on the brink

of collapse. Between oil revenues and remittances plummeting Mexico is about to implode that bloated government of theirs. Why do you think the US is so anxious to put up that wall all of a sudden.

[rosesaylavee]

10. Bwaaaaahaaaahaaa

:rofl:

Love it. Bet the bushies are not happy.

[TheWraith]

11. BWAHAHAHA!

Now watch the Republicans scramble to try and come up with a bullshit reason why government produced, profit-free gasoline would be more expensive than ExxonMobil getting $3.3 billion dollars a month.

[Cerridwen]

13. One quote from one Democrat

"Rep. Maurice Hinchey (D-NY), member of the House Appropriations Committee and one of the most-ardent opponents of off-shore drilling

1115

We (the government) should own the refineries. Then we can control how much gets out into the market."

From the link in the OP.

I can't yet find anyone else carrying this story. Any references lead back to the fox "news" site with their broadbrush title and the one quote from one Democrat.

[bread_and_roses]

17. Yeah, Hinchey! He's from my neck of the woods and living proof that you don't have to be a DINO

to get elected in a district which has broad, deep red swatches!

[ReadTomPaine]

31. Hinchey is a great example of a Dem who stands his ground and gets votes...

from all members of the electorate no matter how far to the left he seems on paper to conservatives. I wish we had 100 more like him in Congress.

[unkachuck]

15. now that more like it....

"...the Democrats called for the government to own refineries so it could better control the flow of the oil supply."

....it's about time, it's long overdue....of course saying it and doing it are two different things....

[Lone_Star_Dem]

16. Pretty smooth move.

Not only would this reduce the prices, the government would also have control over safety and emissions issues.

[xioaping]

21. Smooth moves don't put gas in people's cars

I'm sorry but it is getting very serious. I have customers telling me the price of gas is so high they can not get to work and back. And the bus ride is 2 1/2 hours each way. How do you do that when you have to get kids at school. If drilling for oil will lower the price then start drilling. People have to eat. If nationalizing refineries will solve the problem, then don't talk about it or use it as some ploy, do it. I'm sick of politics as usual.

[Nihil]

28. Get a clue.

> If drilling for oil will lower the price then start drilling.

If they started drilling today, it would have no effect on your gas price.
It would have no effect on the price of your food.

The only two effects it would have would be
1) The oil corp's share price would rise (whoopee for CEOs!)
2) Even more of the planet will be getting f*cked up.

Your desire to save a few cents per gallon does not justify that.
:grr:

[xioaping]

32. It aint a few cents per gallon. Maybe your rich

but I'm not and neither is my customer that I just gave $10 so she could make it to work and back today. She gets her paycheck and the first $75 will go to her gas tank. She could not get to work to get her pay.

This country has no vision. Only selfish people. I use $1 gallon of gasoline every two weeks so gas price does not hurt me. But it hurts other people like my customer. Send me $10 and I will give it to her so she can buy some milk or egss or bread. How about that? Or is she supposed to starve.

You can not just say do nothing. Not when people are now literally going hungry. Maybe you won't starve, maybe you have no hardship, maybe you are without compassion, but I am not.

That's the way rich people are so maybe I will never be rich. But I won't be heartless.

If drilling will solve the problem then drill. If the plan to nationalize the oil refineries will solve the problem like was suggested then do that. Just don't give me BS politics of more of the same.

I just read the Mr Gore uses over $10,000 a month of electricity at his home. Do you know how many people that would help! My electric bill is $54 because we save to help ease the enviroment. what was your electric bill? Mr. Gore has done good but that is no excuse for him - or you - to be so uncaring, environmental pigs while you say other people should starve.

Maybe I make mistake about you but I want to hear it from you.

[uppityperson]

44. "if drilling will solve the problem".It won't.Gore isn't paying $10,000/month for electricity either

It won't. You have been told above why not. Repeating "if it will, do it" won't make it solve the problem. And saying the USA only has selfish people? Pshaw.

And about Al Gore's electric bill? $1200 to $1359/month are what a quick search shows.

If you are going to get upset by his electric bill and call him an uncaring environmental pig, at least get the number right.

[trashcanistanista]

45. Dilling will add to the cost of gas at the pump, do your reseach.

Dilling in ANWAR will save $.75 per barrel when that oil is pumped. The cost of building the drilling operation will be added onto the price of gas, currently estimated at billions. It will take about five years to build the system to drill and pipe. There is only a three month supply of oil available in ANWAR. Drilling makes no sense unless you are a drilling or oil company looking to make some big bucks from the construction process off of the taxpayers. I think they have bled us enough. It is a lie that drilling in ANWAR or off shore will save money at the pump. If someone is paying $75 to fill up, get a smaller vehical. That sounds to me like an SUV sized fill-up rate.

[Dark]

18. I hoped against hope, but the Democrats are still trying to find a way to lose the election.

Idiots.

[xioaping]

22. What do you mean? nt

[Dark]

23. How well do you think nationalization of a private industry will go over with the voters?

They're not going to like this.

[mhatrw]

30. Exactly. Nothing is less popular with the voters than Medicare, Social Security and the USPS.

Meanwhile, voters love oil companies and would do anything to defend their right to gouge us!

[Dark]

38. Pray tell, what industries were nationalized by those programs?

So many companies were lining up to insure old people, I'm sure. OH, and you might want to go after its ugly stepsister, Medicaid. THAT program is despised by most moderates and conservatives.

And, while people want the government to go after oil companies for gouging us, they don't want to seize all of their private property.

[mhatrw]

40. That's right. No American would ever quarter seizing anyone's property for personal gain.

Just ask the natives!

[xioaping]

33. then why was it suggested just to make nonsense

I am trying to understand why anyone would make such a plan but only be fooling about it.

[Dark]

39. I don't know if they were fooling about it. Maybe it was a threat.

Who knows. But it's a bad idea in an election year.

[mhatrw]

41. Exactly. Nothing is more beloved than the oil companies' right to gouge consumers!

This right must be protected at all costs!

[Carnea]

36. There going to love it. i hear next we are promising a 55 mile an hour speed limit

Oh a nationwide ban on handguns..... Let see what else can we do.

[annm4peace]

19. McCain's Connection to ripping us off on Gas Prices

Call your Reps and ask them about the ENRON LOOPHOLE
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


You have to watch this clip from Keith Olbermann on McCain Connection to the Enron Loophole.

You have to help stop us from being ripped off with Gas prices.

Call you your reps and ask them questions about this. Call all the local News stations and radio talk shows and ask them questions about the Enron Loophole.

the oil industry and the banks who are profiting for speculating are Lobbying hard with those in Congress and playing ad after ad on TV and Radio to drill.

WE are the only ones who can stop this.

[pepperbear]

20. "nationalization" as defined by FOX means they're painting the dems as commie pinkos. n/t

[and-justice-for-all]

25. Nationalization/Socialism, makes Capitalist shutter...

The Future Market is bullshit and needs to be stopped dead.

When some one says 'Socialist/Socialism' people immediately think of Nazism, because that was the Nationalist Socialist Party. But, that is not at all what is meant today when one says 'Socialized'.

There is a stigma on 'Socialism' because of the Nazi Party, which was really a dictatorship and had nothing to do with Socialism.

Certain sectors should be Socialized to keep them from exploiting and robbing us blind like they are now. All Oil, Natural Gas and other utilities should not nor ever been left in the hands of the free market. You should be able to rake in mega profits from something that people all need, this also goes for the Health Care Industry too.

Society should be based on a 50% Socialist and 50% Capitalist. Right now, its more like .2% Socialist and 98.9% Capitalist, you can see the obvious result of just how well that works.

[Psephos]

37. Refinery Bliss brought to you by the same government that handles everything else so well

Regulation, yes. Yes. YES.

Nationalization? YOU CAN'T FIRE THE GOVERNMENT WHEN IT FUCKS UP...AND IT WILL.

YOU CAN'T TAX THE GOVERNMENT.

YOU CAN'T INCENTIVIZE A BUREAUCRACY, KILL IT, OR SUBJECT IT TO COMPETITIVE PRESSURE. BUREAUCRACIES EVOLVE RAPIDLY TO DO ONE THING: ENSURE THEIR OWN CONTINUANCE AND POWER.

What kind of naivete does it take to think: 1) That bigwigs in government are immune from corruption and power-mongering, especially considering the MOUNTAINS of cash that will be involved here? 2) That government is full of economically talented managers, while private industry is not? 3) That government can balance supply and demand simultaneously for thousands of local markets and millions of customers through one giant bureaucracy better than individual buyers and sellers can through millions of market-making transactions?

We can't even predict the weather a week from now. I just got a postcard from Seattle that was sent on Memorial Day. Anyone feeling the luv for Medicare Plan D? Get your driver's license renewed lately? Happy with the tax code? How's that whole war thing working out? FEMA anyone? Federal management of forests and minerals tickling your fancy? Been jonesing for some more expert government management of infrastructure, like highways, bridges, and tunnels? That whole drug war thing still keepin' ya safe? Got an itch for more federal prowess in immigrant policy and border management? Like the way the TSA feels up grandmas and makes you strip in the lobby? Think the FBI, CIA, FAA, and the Fed are doing a heckuva job these days?

[harun]

49. You CAN fire the Gov. you cannot fire the head of Exxon-Mobil

Nationalize the refineries!

It is of course a bluff, but a necessary one to show the Repukes are toting drilling as a way to make their big oil money backers happy and not as a way to actually lower the price of anything.

[Oak2004]

50. I enjoy the lowest electric costs in my state.

Outages are repaired promptly. We have been immune from many of the regional blackouts.

Why?

Burlington Electric is city-owned.

The rest of the state doesn't fare as well.

My part of town isn't served yet, but I understand Burlington Telecom is very very good as well.

You're talking about myths, and citing neglected government services as if they are necessarily representative of what happens when we're *not* governed by people who aspire to drown government in a bathtub. I live in a city which has had socialist mayors, with the exception of one brief reversion to Republicanism, since the 1980s. We're also inevitably near the top on those "most livable cities" list (something this city was *definitely not* when the Progressives took control). We're not perfect, by any means. But socialist policies are working out pretty well for us here.

When you see government as a tool to advance the interest of the public, instead of as something to underfund, cronyize, and strangle till it collapses, good things happen.

[paparush]

43. Let us know how that turns out...Nationalized Healthcare? HA! NFW.

Nationalized oil refinement? Double HA HA! NFW.

[rayofreason]

47. "Dems pull defeat from the jaws of victory"...

...should be the real title of this article.

I mean, how stupid can you be. The government is going to run an entire sector of the economy better than the market? Just like the good old, bad old days of the USSR, and we all know how well that worked. Yep, I can just see all of those bureaucrats in DC keeping a really tight oversight on environmental restrictions and not ever, ever, executing plan CYA. Meanwhile, regular Americans hear this story and say WTF??????

And, as was so well pointed out in post #37, the opportunities for corruption in such a move would be like a political Girls Gone Wild. Just consider the mortgage mess and slimy Chris Dodd, who claimed not to know that he was getting a mortgage deal at well below market rates, even though he is Chair of the Senate Banking Committee and about to bail out the buddies who gave him the sweet deal.

http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/op_ed/hc-rennie0622.artjun22,0,7481736.column

Now imagine an even greater pot of money and resources to parcel out to "friends" who run gas stations and the like. Or should be nationalize those too?

Talk about idiotic responses. If I did not know better I would think that this was a Rovian disinformation plot. McCain's people must be cheering and laughing. We should be drilling as much as possible to add to our future production, set up coastal winds farms (to hell with Ted. K. and his NIMBY don't mess up my yacht's view), invest in cellulosic ethanol production, coal liquefaction, lift restrictions on Brazilian ethanol imports (sorry Iowa), build nuclear plants as fast as we can (McCain is right on this one), and have a national goal of energy independence in 10 years.

We use less oil now that we did 2 years ago, even though economic production has increased, and we burn only only 15% more oil than we did in 1973. Gee - something gets more expensive and you use less of it. Who would figure that? But we use 115% more electricity that we did in 1973, and we will use even more once plug-in cars are available (I'll buy one). Lets encourage a shift to production of electricity, especially with non-CO2 producing nuclear, encourage the responsible development of our national resources instead of buying imports from people who don't give a shit about the environment and enriching kleptocratic rulers and religious fanatics.

And for those of you on this thread who cheered this incredibly tone-deaf and ludicrous pronouncement, remember the words of King Pyrrhus who, after defeating the Romans in battle, stated: "If we win another such battle against the Romans, we will be completely lost."

[Trajan]

51. The King Pyrrhus citation is fallacious ....

While it is a cite saying, it doesnt necessarily describe, except in the narrowest terms, the possible result .... non sequitur ....

It seems MANY nations do quite well with government owned industry .... in fact: The GOP simply ADORES them, as long as they hire poorly paid wages slaves who cannot complain about dangerous work conditions .... The Dubai Port deal a prime example of government run companies whom the Bushies adore ...

One can point to many countries where the petroleum industry is run by those who rule nations .... and do quite well ....

Except in our case, that would be you and me .... The notion that 'costs cannot be contained' by government owned industry seems a quaint notion, given the successes elsewhere ...

[wishlist]

52. Private unregulated control of everything has proven disastrous under Bush nt