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brooklynite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 10:01 PM
Original message
Pastors Challenge Law, Endorse Candidates From Pulpit
Source: ABC News

Few Americans would invite an investigation by the Internal Revenue Service, but that's exactly what Minnesota pastor Gus Booth wanted when he stood behind his pulpit and told his congregation God wanted them to vote Republican.

In an election where candidates openly discuss their faith and are regularly seen in churches, and a time when pastors' sermons lead the politics sections of newspapers, one might be excused for not knowing that it is illegal for a church to endorse or oppose a candidate for president.

But when Booth addressed the members of his Warroad Community Church one Sunday in May and told them, "If you are a Christian, you cannot support a candidate like Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton for president," he very much knew he was violating the law. He even wrote a letter to the IRS explaining what he had said and challenging the tax collection agency to do something about it.

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=5198068&page=1



Assuming I believed in God, I'd have to wonder about the temerity of any religious leader telling me they knew God's Will in a political race. That being said, I'm sure Pastor Booth is going to have a delightful time at his audit...
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slampoet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Then GOD can start paying his damn taxes like everybody else.

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TexasProgresive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
29. It is only the church that is not taxed
ministers and staff are liable for income taxes like anyone else that receives a salary.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. Well, then, tax the damn churches too.
FIFTY percent.
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slampoet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #29
38. So? Income tax pays for very little of government.

"At least i pay income taxes" is usually the rally cry of someone who gives back Nothing to the world.

Don't use that to defend churches.
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OneAngryDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
40. Hmmm...
It COULD be argued that taxing a church would violate a church's right to exercise a citizen's First Amendment right to religious freedom - a ''relgion tax,'' if you prefer to use the phrase. That doesn't mean that I like what these viallains are doing.

Please vsit my anti-war website, www.shockedandawful.com
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davsand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Actually, tax exemption is a privilege
Exemption from tax (don't forget, property taxes and paying sales tax are ALSO issues here) is not guaranteed anywhere. Sure, you can say anything you want in that exempt church. You also can face paying taxes if you use that pulpit for political purposes.

The entire 501(C)3 section of the IRS code deals with this along with each individual state tax code. Think, if you will, what the property taxes would be on a building the size of a big church located in a busy metro area. They have a very real incentive to play nice with the tax man.



Laura
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slampoet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #40
44. Newpapers don't loose their first amendment rights through taxation.

Besides, MANY countries have a religion tax. What it does is GUARANTEE that when you so you belong to a church that you damn well pay for that church and don't claim to be part of the congregation when you are not.


This also prevents all the artificially HUGE claims by born agains that they are 25 of the US when really the churches are counting people who don't go to church more than once and are also counting some members who are dead.

Born agains are actually 7% of the usa but they have stuffed their rolls worse than Chicago or New Orleans bosses.
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az chela Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. This is beyond sickening
I am so damn glad i am Not a christian.They are so brain washed
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mrs_p Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. hey there
not all christians are brainwashed. of the over 2 billion christians worldwide, many are reasonable, thoughtful people.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. I don't count myself a Christian, but I know you are right.
People of faith have led in many of the auses I believe in--ending slavery, civil rights, peace, etc. From my perspective, I see many wonderful people in all faiths. And among those who profess none.
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loveable liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #12
30. All the people that I know that refer to themselves as "Christian"
are brainwashed. Give me someone that is 'spiritual' over 'christian' any day of the week. Each and every Christian I come in contact with are self-righteous and believe they are morally superior. They wear a cross around their neck and look down their nose at you. Plus if you challenge them they get angry (which is why it is so much fun).

The very word 'Christian' is used divisively. We live in a christian nation and yet there are infomercials now about taking advantage of the forclosed housing market! Talk about eating your own! How many christians are out protesting the fact that people are making money off families being kicked out of their homes? Carl Pohlad is probably a christian and thats the way he made is billions too; evictions.

In any case, I know not all Christians are a/holes, but we never seem to hear about the sane ones.

(And sorry for the rant, but IMO the christians that I have to deal with every work day are pharisee's)
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joeglow3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. So, do you support ALL types of prejudices
or just those that favor you?
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loveable liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. Predjudice would be labeling all christians as pharisee's
As I posted more than once, I referred to those in my experience. I think I was pretty clear about that. No need to get so defensive...
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Joe Bacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
45. Rev Gu$ wor$hips Je$u$, not Jesus
The Gospel according to Rev. Gu$:

I was hungry and you told me that it was in my economic self interest to find opportunities to work.

I was thirsty and you said the "invisible hand" of the free market would stimulate an entrepreneur to invest in a beverage company that would relieve my thirst.

I was a stranger and you despised me because of the color of my skin or I was gay or lesbian.

I was naked and you had me arrested for lewdness.

I was ill and you told me that I should have bought a better health insurance policy.

I was in prison and you cheered because it was my third strike.

Rev Gu$ loves his Je$u$!!!!!
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #12
47. Reasonable, thoughtful people can still be brainwashed, you know.
NT!

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1Hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. "I am so damn glad i am Not a christian.They are so brain washed" Not all of us, but these nutjobs
make it as difficult for those of us who follow the true Christian teachings as the terrorists make it for practicing Muslims.
Bush's platform of fear divided the country, and the mantra locally was "If you don't vote Republican, you are not a Christian and you are unpatriotic." Horsesh*t. It is difficult at best to be a Dem AND attend church because of far FAR right in the pulpit. Why would anyone be attracted to this brand of Christianity? That's the shame of it. It's supposed to be about spirituality, IMHO.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
48. No True Scotsman fallacy. They're as christian as you - you just cherry-pick differently.
NT!

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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. A belligerent grifter
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ladym55 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. And which god would this be, voting Republican?
Mars, God of War, perhaps? :shrug:

I suspect that if Jesus of Nazareth walked into Pastor Booth's church, he'd be asked to leave, what with his long hair, scruffy beard, sandals, and all. And then all his yapping about peace and loving one another. Damned hippie.
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anitar1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. ladym55, don't forget Jesus' dark skin. n/t
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ladym55 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Yikes, I forgot!
Heck, he would have been stopped in the parking lot. He wouldn't have gotten in the front door.
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pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Always appropriate, when Theocracy rears its ugly head:
The War Prayer
by Mark Twain

It was a time of great and exalting excitement. The country was up in arms, the war was on, in every breast burned the holy fire of patriotism; the drums were beating, the bands playing, the toy pistols popping, the bunched firecrackers hissing and spluttering; on every hand and far down the receding and fading spread of roofs and balconies a fluttering wilderness of flags flashed in the sun; daily the young volunteers marched down the wide avenue gay and fine in their new uniforms, the proud fathers and mothers and sisters and sweethearts cheering them with voices choked with happy emotion as they swung by; nightly the packed mass meetings listened, panting, to patriot oratory which stirred the deepest deeps of their hearts, and which they interrupted at briefest intervals with cyclones of applause, the tears running down their cheeks the while; in the churches the pastors preached devotion to flag and country, and invoked the God of Battles beseeching His aid in our good cause in outpourings of fervid eloquence which moved every listener. It was indeed a glad and gracious time, and the half dozen rash spirits that ventured to disapprove of the war and cast a doubt upon its righteousness straightway got such a stern and angry warning that for their personal safety's sake they quickly shrank out of sight and offended no more in that way.

Sunday morning came -- next day the battalions would leave for the front; the church was filled; the volunteers were there, their young faces alight with martial dreams -- visions of the stern advance, the gathering momentum, the rushing charge, the flashing sabers, the flight of the foe, the tumult, the enveloping smoke, the fierce pursuit, the surrender! Then home from the war, bronzed heroes, welcomed, adored, submerged in golden seas of glory! With the volunteers sat their dear ones, proud, happy, and envied by the neighbors and friends who had no sons and brothers to send forth to the field of honor, there to win for the flag, or, failing, die the noblest of noble deaths. The service proceeded; a war chapter from the Old Testament was read; the first prayer was said; it was followed by an organ burst that shook the building, and with one impulse the house rose, with glowing eyes and beating hearts, and poured out that tremendous invocation

*God the all-terrible! Thou who ordainest! Thunder thy clarion and lightning thy sword!*

Then came the "long" prayer. None could remember the like of it for passionate pleading and moving and beautiful language. The burden of its supplication was, that an ever-merciful and benignant Father of us all would watch over our noble young soldiers, and aid, comfort, and encourage them in their patriotic work; bless them, shield them in the day of battle and the hour of peril, bear them in His mighty hand, make them strong and confident, invincible in the bloody onset; help them to crush the foe, grant to them and to their flag and country imperishable honor and glory --

An aged stranger entered and moved with slow and noiseless step up the main aisle, his eyes fixed upon the minister, his long body clothed in a robe that reached to his feet, his head bare, his white hair descending in a frothy cataract to his shoulders, his seamy face unnaturally pale, pale even to ghastliness. With all eyes following him and wondering, he made his silent way; without pausing, he ascended to the preacher's side and stood there waiting. With shut lids the preacher, unconscious of his presence, continued with his moving prayer, and at last finished it with the words, uttered in fervent appeal, "Bless our arms, grant us the victory, O Lord our God, Father and Protector of our land and flag!"

The stranger touched his arm, motioned him to step aside -- which the startled minister did -- and took his place. During some moments he surveyed the spellbound audience with solemn eyes, in which burned an uncanny light; then in a deep voice he said:

"I come from the Throne -- bearing a message from Almighty God!" The words smote the house with a shock; if the stranger perceived it he gave no attention. "He has heard the prayer of His servant your shepherd, and will grant it if such shall be your desire after I, His messenger, shall have explained to you its import -- that is to say, its full import. For it is like unto many of the prayers of men, in that it asks for more than he who utters it is aware of -- except he pause and think.

"God's servant and yours has prayed his prayer. Has he paused and taken thought? Is it one prayer? No, it is two -- one uttered, the other not. Both have reached the ear of Him Who heareth all supplications, the spoken and the unspoken. Ponder this -- keep it in mind. If you would beseech a blessing upon yourself, beware! lest without intent you invoke a curse upon a neighbor at the same time. If you pray for the blessing of rain upon your crop which needs it, by that act you are possibly praying for a curse upon some neighbor's crop which may not need rain and can be injured by it.

"You have heard your servant's prayer -- the uttered part of it. I am commissioned of God to put into words the other part of it -- that part which the pastor -- and also you in your hearts -- fervently prayed silently. And ignorantly and unthinkingly? God grant that it was so! You heard these words: 'Grant us the victory, O Lord our God!' That is sufficient. the *whole* of the uttered prayer is compact into those pregnant words. Elaborations were not necessary. When you have prayed for victory you have prayed for many unmentioned results which follow victory--*must* follow it, cannot help but follow it. Upon the listening spirit of God fell also the unspoken part of the prayer. He commandeth me to put it into words. Listen!

"O Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth to battle -- be Thou near them! With them -- in spirit -- we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it -- for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.

(*After a pause.*) "Ye have prayed it; if ye still desire it, speak! The messenger of the Most High waits!"

It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said.

http://www.ntua.gr/lurk/making/warprayer.html

pnorman
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1Hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. OMG I LOVE your response! JC was a RADICAL. But JC wouldn't be in any church to begin with...he
would be in the bars, at the homeless shelters, at the orphanages, etc. He would be with the "forgotten ones." He was a hippie before his time, IMHO.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
5. Are any of those contaminated tomatos left?
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #5
17. No prob, "faith based healing" will save them
nt
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NYC Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
7. That's fine with me. Just start paying taxes like EVERYONE else. nt
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Charlie Brown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
9. are they aware the law they are challenging is named MCCAIN-Feingold? nt
Edited on Fri Jun-20-08 11:11 PM by Charlie Brown
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
10. God just told the IRS to revoke Gus' exemption.
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1Hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
28. LOL
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
16. When voting the wrong way sends you to eternal hell
you no longer have free elections

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happygoluckytoyou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
18. GOD wants you to take your church donation back AND RENT A F(*&(ING BRAIN
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Joe Bacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
19. If they wanna play, they gotta pay!
Time to tax these crooks. Take 'em off of that faith-based gravy train that LIEberman provides for them!
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
20. Great, now we have fanatics telling us who God wants us to vote for?
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. I doubt you'll find democratic preachers that stupid to tell us who God wants us to vote for
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Churches or partisan party houses? Look what happened to the money changers
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #22
49. Uh, you seem to be replying to yourself...
NT!

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moonbatmax Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
23. Stealing a Line from Tom Tomorrow...
...I just have to ask:
Why Does God Hate America SO MUCH???

On second thought, I guess we can think of more than a few reasons...
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. I think this pastor is confused.
It's the horned god with cloven hooves who wants us to vote republican.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #25
35. "Gus Booth of Warroad Community Church is a delegate to this year’s Republican National Convention"
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 03:39 AM
Response to Original message
24. Well for heaven's snakes...
If churches get away with doing that, unions should be tax exempt too.
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 04:39 AM
Response to Original message
26. Of course, they're republican.
A friend of mine at work said today:

"To be a republican you have to be either stupid or hate people".

He's so right.

These pastors are both. It's a hostile God these ones are touting.
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MJJP21 Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 06:00 AM
Response to Original message
27. Slam dunk
This should be a slam dunk issue. Either the pastor is removed by the governing body of the church or the church losess its tax emempt status immediatly. There should be no arguement here.
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
32. Any church
that focuses on politics at the pulpit is missing something. Religion and politics do not go hand in hand. They should not be related.

I'd walk out of the church if my pastor spent any amount of time talking politics in a homily.


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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
34. Churches and Campaign Activity: Analysis Under Tax and Campaign Finance Laws (CRS Apr 08)
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. For comparison with the foregoing, here is the full text of Booth's May sermon
from the following google cache: http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:GOFnLn3qoIEJ:www.startribune.com/%3Fsz%3Dst.demo/homepage_experience/slider_big+site:www.startribune.com+sermon+Gus+Booth&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us
("Related Content PDF: Rev. Booth's sermon" actually leads to a doc, not to a pdf)


There was something about that scripture that jumped off the page and into my spirit this week. You can’t just read that , you gotta read that with pizzazz and passion. Anyway, that’s not part of today’s sermon. Today’s sermon is going to start with the words….
Black Regiment!!!! Specifically the Black robe Regiment. Does anyone know what that is? That’s why I’m wearing my black suit, with a black tie, black socks, black shoes, and hot pink underwear. (just kidding) This black suit is not quite a black robe buy my intention in wearing it is to give you a visual reminder of, the Black Robe Regiment.
The Black Robe Regiment was a group of preachers who were fierce opponents of British tyranny and a driving force in the decision of the American colonies to seek independence from England. King George, who was the king of England, had provoked many of these men to leave England because of the unbiblical demands that he was putting on the church. When they got to America they were powerfully preaching politics from the pulpit. He called them the Black Regiment because of the black robes they wore when preaching. Most people do not know of the role these colonial preachers had in America’s fight for independence. It is not an exaggeration to say that had it not been for the activism of early America’s pulpits, our independence would never have been won and this nation would not even exist. These men were so vigorous in their political involvement that their enemies took notice of them. They did not operate under the misguided philosophy that politics and religion are separate. The saw their roll as the mouth piece of God and that same God wants to be LORD of all, every person, every family, every church, every community, every government and every nation. To say that God does not want His people to infiltrate the political area is to say that God also wants to limit His influence on this nation. Nothing could be further from the truth.
It is my desire, and I dare say, God’s desire, to use this pulpit to influence you and your family and friends to vote for the most Biblical candidates this November. When you participate in the election process you allow God to participate as well (through you). I believe there are too many pastors who have lead their congregations into political apathy. They are scared to offend what ever side is less biblical. I used to be like that. Too many pastors think the way I used to… “Do not take sides politically, because if you do then you may lose your platform to share the gospel with those who disagree politically, because after all, the gospel message is more important than the political message.” Absolutely I agree that the gospel message is more important than the political message. But using that philosophy is kind of like saying… “Because my family is more important to me than your family I will never try to help your family, only mine.” Before I get too far into this political stuff and your brains turn off, let me say that I understand that many people come to church and they want to be encouraged and uplifted by a spiritual message. There is nothing wrong with that. But let me share with you something Martin Luther said “If I profess with the loudest voice and clearest exposition every portion of the truth of God except precisely that little point which the world and the devil are at that moment attacking, I am not confessing Christ… where the battle rages there the loyalty of the soldier is proved.” There is a political battle raging, especially this year, and I’m not just talking about the presidential election, although that is super important. Many other political offices will be decided. But let me explain further Martin Luther’s comments. The point he is making is this… If you live in a culture where human sacrifice isn’t a problem they why rail against it? Have you ever heard me preach a sermon on the sin of sacrificing a virgin to the sun god? No, nobody does that in Warroad, MN. But if I lived in a time or a place where they did that and I didn’t preach against it then I would not be preaching what is currently applicable to the culture. Yet in our culture we do have a form of human sacrifice and it is called abortion and who we elect into political office has a direct affect on whether that disgusting and wicked murderous procedure remains legal in our nation. I know that I am preaching to the choir about abortion, but are we in the church as passionate about influencing politics as we are about stopping the practice of abortion? If you want to stop abortion, you will be politically active. You can’t even stop legalized abortion with being politically active. Most of us are part of the choir (we already understand this), but more of us have friends and family that are not part of the choir and they call themselves Christians yet they support political candidates that think it is okay to sacrifice humans. We need to influence them. Do you still think God wants His people not involved in politics? Not only does He want His people politically active He wants them voting for the most biblically accurate candidate (He even wants His people as candidates.) He also wants us to confront the sin of any candidate or political leader. Please turn to 2 Samuel 12:9. Verse 9 Nathan was a prophet, but he didn’t operate under the principal that religion and politics don’t mix. In fact, God sent this religious leader to this political leader. (V.1) Just like Nathan, the Lord sends us into the political realm too. Jeremiah was confronting the wickedness of his culture and it’s political leaders all the time. John the Baptist! Mark 6:18 “It is not lawful for you (Herod) to have your brother’s wife.” John even brought public attention to the sinful personal life of the governor in his region. (Herod) It wasn’t just about ungodly policy with John, but also ungodly character. Herod had his brother’s wife (adultery) Bad policy vs. bad character, both are bad. Not so long ago there was a certain American president that had some of his own problems with adultery and I remember that there were people defending him with the argument that his private life has nothing to do with his public office. Hog wash! Well, God would disagree and He needs us to be His voice of disagreement. (Speaking the truth in love.) Jesus Himself confronted Herod and called him a fox. (Luke 13:31-32.) When you make comments about politicians you’re being political. Jesus was political. He is our perfect example. Nathan, Jeremiah, John the Baptist, Jesus. 4 men whose example was recorded by God for us to follow. God recorded a few other things for us to follow as well. Proverbs 29:2 “When the godly are in authority, the people rejoice. But when the wicked are in power they groan.” God has given us a country by which we can choose who we want to lead us, the godly, or the wicked. If the godly people of this country (you and I) do not work to help the most biblically accurate candidates get elected then is it any wonder we have legalized abortion in this nation? If our fore fathers would have elected godly men and women in the early and mid 20th century they would never have appointed Judges who were ungodly. Those Supreme Court Judges of 1973 made murdering innocent children legal. Legalized abortion is the result of the philosophy that we shouldn’t mix religion and politics. We are now paying for our fore fathers mistakes and roughly 50 million babies have paid a price too. You know there’s another issue that the devil is currently attacking (remember Martin Luther’s comments) marriage! Our political leaders are debating whether or not to legalize same sex marriage. Can I just point out the obvious…. If all of our political leaders were godly there would be no debate. But they are not godly, because too many godly people have absolved themselves from the political process. I do not want one of my sons or grandsons to stand at a pulpit some day lamenting about what I let happen. The legalizing of same sex marriage, it is still illegal, but the institution of marriage is eroding. And just so you know I’m not railing against you, this next quote is something that I firmly believe. Charles Finney, one of the greatest revivalist preachers of American history said…”If there is a decay of conscience; the pulpit is responsible for it. If the public press lacks moral discernment, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the church is degenerate and worldly, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the world loses its interest in Christianity, the pulpit is responsible for it. If Satan rules in our halls of legislation, the pulpit is responsible for it. If our politics become so corrupt that the very foundations of our government are ready to fall away, the pulpit is responsible for it.” This pulpit will not be responsible for it!
Henry Beecher Ward was pastor of the Plymouth Church in Brooklyn from 1847 to 1887 and was an outspoken opponent of slavery from the pulpit. In one of his sermons in March, 1863, Ward stated: It is sometimes said that ministers must not preach politics. I would like to know how they are going to preach from that text Matthew 20:25-28 without preaching politics. They would have to toe hop, and skip, and jump through two-thirds of the Bible if they did not, for there is not another book on the face of God’s earth that is so full of commerce and business and government, and the relations between the governing and the governed, as this same Bible. How could it be otherwise, when church and state were one in the whole period of the Old Testament where the revelations were based on the coexistence of these two interests? And yet, in these later days, we have these ineffable men who tell us that we must not preach in the pulpit about public affairs, and who would scourge out of the sanctuary a full half of the Bible. Infidels!
My sentiments exactly! The Bible is not silent on the moral issues we face in our country today. In fact, the Bible specifically addresses issues that are at stake in the upcoming election. For Christians, the Bible’s commands are “non-negotiable.” To disobey God’s commands is called sin, and voting for candidates that stand in direct opposition to Scripture’s commands is direct approval of things the Bible commands us not to approve of or participate in as Christians. The sanctity of life and the institution of marriage, all life is precious to God and a life in the womb is no different than one out of the womb.
Please turn with me to Luke 1:41 Verse 41 that word baby is “brephos” in the Greek. That verse is specifically talking about John the Baptist while he was in the womb. Turn to Luke 2:6-7 and 12. These are specifically talking about Jesus after He was out of the womb. The point is that God makes no distinction between born or pre-born babies. Neither should we. (brephos in or brephos out)
Proverbs 6:16-17 I don’t think it could get clearer that that. God hates hands that shed innocent blood and godly people’s lack of political involvement has made it legally possible to kill humans that are our most innocent. And let me just talk about this…the mentality people have who say…”I am against abortion, but I’m not against someone else’s right to an abortion.” God is! (and so should you be!) I cannot believe that we have actually swallowed the lie that someone can have the right to murder someone else, because they are an inconvenience. Are politics important, you bet they are! Marriage between one man and one women is the 1st institution that God created. Heterosexuality is the divine pattern for all society. Homosexuality is a deceptive perversion for any society. Lev. 18:22 “You are not to sleep with a man as with a woman, it is detestable.” Lev. 20:13 “If a man sleeps with a man as with a woman they have both committed an abomination…” Abomination is the strongest biblical word for the denunciation of sin. 1 Timothy 1:10 specifically lists homosexuality as a sin. The NIV translates it as “perverts”. The Greek work is “arsenoleoites” meaning sodomite, the literal meaning is a homosexual.
The next president will be in a position to affect national policy on matters of homosexuality and marriage. You shouldn’t just vote for biblical values, you should campaign for them.
Both Hillary and Barak favor the shedding of innocent blood (abortion) and the legalization of the abomination of homosexual marriage.
We have seen what Scripture says about the sanctity of life and marriage and where the candidates stand on these issues. The Bible is crystal clear when it talks about what God believes about abortion. The Bible says God hates hands that shed innocent blood. The Bible is also crystal clear when it states that homosexual conduct is an abomination. There is no middle ground of Christians on these issues. We as Christians cannot name the name of Christ, claim to follow Christ and then support the things He hates. Let me be very clear-when you become a follower of Christ, He demands all of your life. Not part of it – all of it. He does not somehow exempt you from His commands when you enter the voting booth any more than He exempts you from His commands at the grocery store or any moment of the day. There is no time when we as Christians can somehow set aside God’s commands and follow our own way. Jesus even said, unequivocally, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments,” and “He who does not love me does not keep my words…” (John 14:15,24).
You have heard our Lord’s commands about the sanctity of life and marriage. You have heard the positions of the candidates. There is no middle ground in this election. If you are a Christian, you cannot support a candidate like Barak Obama or Hillary Clinton for President because he/she stands opposite of every one of the Biblical mandates we have addressed today. I urge you, when you enter that voting booth, to not vote for Barak Obama or Hillary Clinton or candidates like him/her that support and encourage activities our Lord condemns in the strongest terms. Our Lord’s commands are not optional. Nor can they be taken on and off like a coat we only wear when it is cold outside. Our lives as Christians should be marked by complete and unswerving obedience to our Lord’s commands, knowing that He commands us out of love, and we obey him out of love. The question facing Christians in America on the eve of the election is this: Who is your Lord? Christ or the culture? The Prince of Peace or your Political Party? If Jesus Christ is really Lord, then He is Lord over every area of our lives, including who we vote for and support politically.
It is obvious that no particular candidate can in any way completely embody Scripture just as we as Christians will never become perfect ourselves while on this earth. However, just as we strive as Christians to conform our lives as closely to Scripture as possible, so we should seek to elect leaders that align their positions with Scripture – especially on the vital issues where Scripture leaves no ambiguity. When you vote, vote as Christ commands.
In conclusion, I thank you that may of you already believe all that was just said. But I leave you with one lasting question. Do your friends, family, and co-workers? Influence them!
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OneAngryDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
39. JAMES 1:27
Edited on Sat Jun-21-08 05:38 PM by OneAngryDemocrat
I sent Warroad Community Church (wrdcomchurch@warroadcommunitychurch.org) the following e-mail:

PRAY FOR PEACE

"Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this,
To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to
keep himself unspotted from the world." ~ James 1:27


Endorsing war, while condemning abortion, isn't very Christ-like, Pastor Booth.

- Del Wasso, a fellow Christian, a democrat, a Marine Corps veteran,
and webmaster of the anti-war website, www.ShockedandAwful.com





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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
42. Its more like 'Gus' wanted them to vote Repig. nt
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sutz12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
43. Hmmmmm....who would expect this from a church named "War-road"?
:evilgrin:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
46. Stupid Hypocrite...some man of "God"
says "vote republican" so they can fucking destroy the world.
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