Zimbabwe opposition to pull out

[tpsbmam]

Source: BBC News

The Movement for Democratic Change says the decision comes after at least 70 of its supporters have been killed in the run-up to the poll.

.........

The MDC says its members have been beaten, and its supporters evicted from their homes, forcing it to campaign in near secrecy.

The party's secretary general, Tendai Biti, is under arrest charged with treason.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7467990.stm

[tpsbmam]

1. Confirmed -- Mugabe's violence won out

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080622/ap_on_re_af/zimbabwe

Opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai said Sunday he is pulling out of this week's presidential runoff because of mounting violence and intimidation against his supporters.

Tsvangirai announced his decision during a news conference in Zimbabwe's capital after thousands of ruling party militants blockaded the site of the opposition's main campaign rally.

"Conditions as of today do not permit the holding of a credible poll," Tsvangirai said. "Given the totality of these circumstances, we believe a credible election is impossible. We can't ask the people to cast their vote on June 27 when that vote will cost their lives. We will no longer participate in this violent sham of an election."

[bluesmail]

2. Concede or else...

I feel lifeless.

[Zynx]

3. Mugabe defenders are going to love this one.

Bunch of sick bastards.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

12. oh I am sure they will have all the answers

and explain when the last few elderly rhodesians who holding the country back are dead all will be right in Zimbabawe and this is just the final Chimurenga and it will all be worth it.

I am still trying to find a Mugabe defender who will address Mugabe's extremely close relationship with some of the worst of the worst of the UDI era such as the Bredenkamps but they don't seem to want to talk about it.

[World Citizen]

4. See, if they only had enough oil

we could pretend that we cared about human rights and
democracy again.

[The Liberal Thinker]

5. Ah, crap.

Sometimes I really wonder how the situation in Zimbabwe can be rectified. The international community really dropped the ball on this one.

[Stella_Artois]

10. Its a tough one

But sooner or later other African countries are going to police their own. There has been enough European / Western intervention in that place already.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

13. but they won't

The present generation of African leadership can't bring themselves to criticize their fellow "freedom fighters" and the upcomming generation is pretty much a useless mix of party gangsters and detached privileged black GWB's.

[Stella_Artois]

14. So whats the answer ?

We do it for them ?

Didn't we all decide that colonialism was bad ?

[Zachstar]

17. Sending a sniper team would have been fine.

Break that asshole leader's head in two with a US expert sniper team and his thugs will fall apart.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

20. the only thing worse than colonialism is post-colonialism

Their isn't an answer that is politically correct, but ultimately China is going to re-colonize Africa for their resources.

Africa was just abandoned to anarchy - and for the longest time any english speaking black guy was accepted as a dandy leader, bonus points if he was a marxist and of whom criticism could only be racist,

When Mugabe began his rampage in the early 1990's nobody said or did anything about it, he was a "freedom fighter" after all and now after destroying the healthiest country in Africa there are still people slow to criticize.

And the problem is that because the most visible victims of Mugabe were the Rhodesian farmers and because as everyone knows all white people in Africa are just like the bad guys in Lethal Weapon what was taking place was just sort of accepted by many in Africa and the west as justice for the eeevil whites ignoring the fact that the international media just focused on the Rhodesians and that Mugabe's rampage effected the entire population.

[Irreverend IX]

33. What makes you think China would re-colonize them?

Colonialism is extremely out of character for China, which tends not to project force far outside its borders. But I don't see how Africa can manage to fix itself. If the entire world were to adopt a hands-off approach and avoid intervention in Africa, the violence could abate in a few generations and less tyrannical governments could arise. But that's never going to happen, since so many countries already have interests there. The only other "solution" would be for Western powers to recolonize Africa, and that won't happen either. So instead Africa will remain in a limbo between colonialism and independence.

[ohio2007]

6. Too many Nathan Hale's have been given death..liberty has been proven over rated

I suppose the UN is breathing a sigh of relief knowing bloodshed will be prevented.

/sarc

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/hale.htm

[Zachstar]

7. Is there a coward virus about?

You think this will be the other country? Soon other nations will adopt a policy of violence for power.


Evil is starting to gain power rapidly. I wonder how much longer I want to see it fall before I give up hope.

[Zachstar]

8. BTW forgot to add that because if the acceptance of violence the opposition will be killed by them.

Do these fucking idiots think that the violence will stop? HELL NO they are going around to find former supporters and harm them and KILL your ass Morgan! Obviously to insure that there will not be an effective challenger for decades.

YOU Morgan! sold out freedom in the country when you pulled out. YOU Morgan are now responsible for the results of this!

Enjoy your last days Morgan, before they decide to finish you off.

[Stella_Artois]

9. Cowards are easy to spot....

Especially when you are safe behind a keyboard thousands of miles away.

How about some men come over and burn your parents to death, and take your children away for the same treatment unless you "vote properly"

It wasn't a fair election, and Mugabe probably had killed and threatened enough people to ensure "victory"

Pulling out is the least worst option. Staying in would only give the same result, with the probability of more dead.

[Zachstar]

11. People are going to die anyway.

You think Mugabe is going to just let these people regroup? LOL

Ya right...

[Stella_Artois]

15. Mugabe is going to stay in power anyway

So why validate it with an election "victory" ?

[Zachstar]

16. Because there was a chance the opposition could win or evidince gathered.

Then maybe if Bush wont go in Obama will. Then again Obama has been showing fear lately so I doubt it.

With this pullout the bad guys win plain and simple. They will know next time to kill and harm people going to a rally.

[cobalt1999]

34. There was no chance the opposition could win.

If there was any doubt, the opposition would be dead.

[tom_paine]

31. Very good point. I see both sides of it. Both sides have valid aspects.

Stella, you are absolutely correct. We here in our comfortable cocoon of Invereted Totalitarianism, which for most of us is indistinguishable from the free nation that came before, in the personal danger we face in our daily lives.

Which is to say little or no danger. As someone who has had relatives killed by totalitarianism...Joe Stalin, I am grateful every day that the Bushies were forced to camoflauge themselves and eschew the direct Mugabe-type route to their tyrannical power.

You are absolutely correct that none of us who has never experienced something like that has any right to judge someone for something that is literally beyond our experience and understanding, something so horrif and barbaric. For something like this, intellectually knowing about it and LIVING it are two VERY different things.

Having said all that, Stella, and freely admitting that while I like to believe I'd "Patrick Henry" it, given such a choice and such barbarous opponents, no one knows how they'd react and can't know until they are tested, until (God Forbid) it happens and we would have to make a choice.

Having said all that, let me say that I can't help feeling disappointed myself, even knowing what I know. History is replete with those who took the Patrick Henry-ish stance, and suffered long-term imprisonment and/or death for their troubles. Nelson Mandela and MLK Jr. come to mind.

Way back in 2001, I correctly predicted that the Bush Imperium's dedication to destroying democracy while paying lip-service to it, would have a global impact, like throwing a great rock into a lake, the ripples spreading out.

I predicted the Mugabe's of the world would feel emboldened and deepen their tyrannical hold, less afraid of being exposed because the Bushies were secretly on his side, even envious of him. I predicted that the rest of the Third World would follow our nation in wasy large and small.

Now Italy his gone openly "post-fascist" and Berlusconi is out of the closet, calling himself and his henchmen "The New Felange" (Franco's Fascist Party). They have burned at least one gyspsy camp, had a mini-Kristallnacht complete with beatings and murders.

Not that we'll here about it from the Toady Media, since Berlusconi is a Bushie.

My point is, since Bushler took over, democracy and liberty are in retreat all over the world, and tyranny on the rise. So, while I am disappointed, though trying not to be judgemental, this dwindling support for liberty and freedom, makes the Zimbabwe's oppsition's retreat more understandable.

[LeftishBrit]

18. 'Soon other nations will adopt a policy of violence for power'...

Other nations did so long ago. Most nations some of the time, and some nations most of the time. Though admittedly Mugabe is a particularly extreme case.

As for Morgan Tsvangirai: I don't think a good choice exists for him. If he pulls out, Mugabe will win by default. If he doesn't pull out, Mugabe will win, through fraud and violence, *and* will represent himself as the true choice of the people. Arguably, the first option is the better one.

The people who can be accused of enabling Mugabe are not Tsvangirai and his supporters, who have little choice, but the international community - especially, though not exclusively, those in neighbouring African countries, who could have had some real influence. Mbeki in particular is an idiot IMO!

Unless the international community acts in some way, the only hope is that Mugabe will fairly soon die of old age (he is well into his 80s) and that whoever replaces him will be less vicious. Neither of which is at all a certainty.

[Zachstar]

19. Or much of a possibility.

More than likely it will be much worse.


Bad elections are easy to gather evidence for. The international community could then start putting extreme pressure then hopefully military teams.

And what I mean with this policy is that in modern times it has become much harder for a nation to subdue its people with violence due to electronics aiding reporting to the outside world.

Now a dictator knows that people will again fold and the international community wont give a shit. Only when there is oil or when a ton of people die do they come in with the tanks trailed by news vans.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

21. I wouldn't count on an improvement

The moderate elements of Zanu-PF who kept Mugabe in check in the early years after independence are ancient history, what comes next can only be just as bad if not worse. The younger elements of Zanu-PF are the most radical and violent.

[applegrove]

22. So it looks like Mugabe's rule will have to end with bloodshed. So sad.

[Zachstar]

23. From who? Us? I doubt Obama now has the pair to do that.

He would call the FISA bill what it is how will he call this hostile dictatorship what it is?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

24. If only Nixon could go to China

Maybe only Obama can project power in Africa,

[Zachstar]

26. Ya Nixon did a TON of good with China.

They LOVE us now and will do ANYTHING to insure they only export to us TOP of the line and SAFE products while paying GREAT wages and being friendly with the environment.

:sarcasm:

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

27. yeah but the post-colonial academic douchebags

probably won't compare Obama to P.W. Botha if he takes on Mugabe.

[LeftishBrit]

30. The Chinese government is bad,; but all the things you mention are better than a nuke threat!

I still think it's a good thing that Nixon went there.

[applegrove]

25. I wasn't talking about the US doing anything. I was thinking more along the lines of Zimbabwe is

ripe for a revolution.

The FISA thing is pretty small considering all that has happened in the last 8 years. I guess I feel that way because I am in Canada and the USA has & does look at internet traffic outside the USA with immunity. And you would expect them to.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

36. It will be internal bloodshed

Think Rwanda but don't in a political rather than tribal fashion, food is getting mighty scarce and the thug in charge has guaranteed that while he is in power all whites will have their land taken, this means the last 400 or so productive farms in that nation will soon stop feeding people. After all taking farms from farmers and handing them to people who dont know how to far has not worked out as well as he planned...

When people get hungry enough there will be major violence and RM can only blame the white man for so long, soon enough the chickens will come home to roost.

The shame of it is that there was a smart way to take land back for the native population, just not entire farms and not given to people with no clue on how to run them..

[Matilda]

28. It's very sad news, but it's the only thing that Tsvangirai can do at this stage.

I truly think that Mugabe is raving mad, and that he's truly evil is surely beyond dispute. Even if
the MDC supporters could get to the polls, the electoral officers wouldn't dare to declare victory
if Tsvangirai won - they'd be dead, and so would Tsvangirai. I'd bet that the MDC really won a clear
victory in the first round, but the electoral commissioners didn't dare announce it. It was quite
brave of them to announce anything less than total victory for Mugabe.

The other African states are not going to put pressure on Mugabe, and as long as the army is with
him, there is little hope of any kind of revolution succeeding. There is no kind of pressure or
sanctions from the West that he'd listen to, and he clearly wouldn't care if most of the population
was dying from malnutrition and disease.

He has said that God put him in power and only God can remove him - hoping that God will point his
finger at Mugabe is probably as realistic a hope as anything else.

[Zachstar]

29. Or Mugabe can eat some 2000 pounders dropped from the B-2s we need to find a use for.

Or we send a Sniper team.

For me I much prefer the idea of his murderous supporters being blown to bits. Send them to hell where they belong. Send them ALL to hell!

[David__77]

32. You advocate genocide of over a million Zimbabweans?

You think that all of the Zimbabweans (1,079,730 of them!) who voted for Mugabe should be killed by the US? Just making sure I understand correctly.

These are the people who should be "blown to bits?"







Somehow, I just don't see why they should be killed. But, that's just me.

[Zachstar]

35. No just the ones slobbering near the monster.

2000 pounders cant kill that many people and I just want the local area destroyed to kill as many of the Monsterous militia as possible to send a signal we are never going to let this happen again.

Tho I will trade that shock for a sniper team.