5 dead in plastics factory shooting rampage

[Junkdrawer]

Source: MSNBC

HENDERSON, Ky. - At least five people have died after an argument with a supervisor sparked a workplace shooting, police said on Wednesday.

NBC affiliate WFIE reported that a gunman opened fire at the Atlantis Plastics plant in Henderson, Ky., shortly after midnight. At least 8 people were taken to hospital.

Henderson police Lieutenant David Piller said the worker used a handgun he got from home during a break after arguing with his boss.

Police said shots were fired in multiple rooms at the building.

The gunman is believed to have later taken his own life.



Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25361852

---

Meanwhile, the Supreme Court decision on the DC Gun Laws is due today. Many fear that if the Court affirms an individual 2nd amendment right, most of our current gun laws will be gone.

:scared:

[Junkdrawer]

1. So, turns out that Kentucky allows employees to have firearms in their cars...

http://www.alphecca.com/?p=610

Originally, the report said that he retrieved the gun from home...

Now they're saying:

Police said the employee used a handgun he retrieved during a break.

[skooooo]

5. self delete...

[RamboLiberal]

24. MSNBC still reporting he went home to get gun on his break

FWIW

[Junkdrawer]

30. It was there...then they removed it...now it's back...

and it only says "Police say".

I'll be interested to see why "Police say" that in the coming days. Perhaps it's because witnesses saw him go to his car (or drive away in his car) during the break. In that case, wouldn't it be just as likely he had the gun in the car? :shrug:

[Junkdrawer]

32. More details here (he may have been packing at work)...

...

The employee, a press operator, began arguing with a supervisor and was escorted from the building, the company's chief executive, Bud Philbrook, said.

As the employee was leaving, he took out a gun, shot the supervisor, then charged back into a break room and shot several employees. Then he returned to the floor and shot another employee before killing himself, Philbrook said.

"It's just total shock," Philbrook said. "It's something you read about in the paper."

It wasn't clear if the employee was carrying the gun, or if he retrieved it after the argument.

"We don't know if the gun was in the car or if he went somewhere to get it," Henderson police Lt. David Piller told CBS affiliate WLKY-TV.

...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/25/national/main4206962.shtml

[slackmaster]

34. If that is the case, then he'd already made up his mind to go looking for trouble

Before he even left home this morning.

I can't imagine someone saying to himself "I feel like blowing away my boss and a bunch of other people at work, but unfortunately the rules prohibit taking a gun to the office. I wouldn't want to get in TROUBLE."

[Junkdrawer]

35. I'm trying to get more details about Kentucky laws....

It seems that an employer is criminally liable if the employer prohibits guns at work. What I'm trying to figure out is if that includes the factory floor or just the parking lot.

[benEzra]

38. So does almost every state. (n/t)

[Endangered Specie]

68. and even if it weren't allowed, do you think a man who wants to go on a shooting spree

is gonna obey *that* particular law?

I mean, lets face it, if youve got it in you to commit multiple homicides, whats another felony?

[winston61]

2. Guns, guns, and then some more guns-

If everyone in that plant had a gun this never would have happened. I say start passing them out in pre-school. Can you ever have too many guns? Guns, guns, guns! Oops, I made a little spilly in my trousers. I know, I'll shoot my dick off, that will never happen again! Where's my gun Mama?

[ileus]

63. you can't have too many guns, unless they won't fit in your safe.

I'm about 20 shy of hitting my limit right now. For the moment my coin collection takes up the other half of my safe....

[michreject]

72. I have three safes

:evilgrin:

[Paladin]

74. How Completely Unsurprising (n/t)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

77. Winston needs his lecture, he's being obtuse.

[shadowknows69]

3. Ya know, lives are lost, maybe we could stow the wit and cynicism for a day or so?

[michreject]

4. But that doesn't help advance the gun grabbers agenda

They wait like vultures waiting for stuff like this to happen.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DS1]

8. Thanks for the fresh bodies, plenty to gorge on around here

:eyes:

[Junkdrawer]

11. Yes. If only we could stop the reporting of all gun deaths....

Pro-gun laws would be much more palatable.

You know, like what the Corporate Media does for Iraq...

[Junkdrawer]

19. Well, as of 10:15 AM, CNN has removed it from their home page...

http://www.cnn.com/

Guess they're ready to post the SCOTUS DC ruling and this story would be, well, embarrassing.

On Edit:
As of 10:22 it's back, but buried as the 13th story down in "Latest News"

[LanternWaste]

13. I would appear both sides have their over-dramatic players.

I would appear both sides have their over-dramatic, hyped-up-on-clever-hyperbole players...

[michreject]

14. Well...............me sometimes

[depakid]

52. And like petulent children, the gun proliferation advocates never take responsibility

for the consequences of the policies that they advocate so tirelessly.

Much easier to call others names, than accept that they've doomed themselves and their children (indeed, all Americans) to repeated instances of senseless violence that aren't found in other western nations.

[bossy22]

54. and like little school children

the gun control advocates never miss an oppurtunity to call the gun rights advocates names

[depakid]

55. What names?

Fact is, gun proliferation in America has resulted (and will continue to result) in repeated tragedies like this.

Apparently, that's a price many (particularly the most vocal) Americans are willing to pay for their obsessions. Seems to me that a reasonable adult looking at these headlines time and again would at least admit that simple fact, which is so obvious to folks who've lived abroad.

[slackmaster]

64. Guns do not behave like gas molecules

The number of guns in circulation is not nearly as important as who has them.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

67. I've lived abroad extensively and I disagree with you.

It seems to me that reasonable adults would stop blaming inanimate objects for the acts of individuals.

David

[Paladin]

75. Don't Be Obtuse

Nobody's blaming inanimate objects for the acts of individuals. Nor have they ever. Anybody with a brain bigger than a small pistol primer realizes that.....

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

76. So the next time someone says more guns everywhere for everybody, you'll give the same speech, eh.

Since no one has put that idea forth either and anybody with a brain bigger than a small pistol primer would realize that. Odd I haven't seen you give them the same condescending lecture.

David

[michreject]

73. Gun grabbers

can claim no moral high ground on that subject. They can't get past the penis envy.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

57. So guns cause the senseless violence?

Interesting take, can't say I agree though.

David

[Old and In the Way]

7. Too bad everyone in the plant didn't have concealed weapons.

One guys shoots, another guy returns fire, another guy fires at the guy returning fire, another person draws a gun, he gets shot....before you know it, the whole place is a shooting gallery.

[skooooo]

10. This place is close to ..

...where I grew up. I don't find any of it funny or think it should be used to make flippant comments about guns.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

58. Then quit making them.

[skooooo]

70. I didn't.

Asshat.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

78. How convenient they are self deleted or have been removed?

You really do need to get some help with that anger problem.

David

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

59. Any examples to share?

Since concealed carry has been around for many years now, in lots of different places, surely you'll be able to provide many examples of multiple shootings of multiple bystanders or other permit holders by concealed carry permit holders at the scene of a crime. We'll be waiting for you to get back to us with those.

David

[Old and In the Way]

62. Not yet.

But give it time. When we dismantle all of the gun control laws and law abiding citizens start to feel that carrying guns will be the only way to protect themselves, that scenario isn't really too much of a stretch.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

66. Concealed carry in Washington State since 1961 and Florida since 1987.

Shall issue in 37 other states. You should have plenty of examples to prove your point. Surely in the last 47 years Washington state can provide you numerous examples.

David

[DS1]

9. Time for gun-detecting autocannons at every workplace and school

I'm thinking




bleeding :sarcasm:

[LanternWaste]

12. I simply cannot understand why people allow...

I simply cannot understand why people allow mere words to get them to act in such a violent, no-way-out manner. A manner in which no one wins and too many people permanently lose.

They're just words, for Pete's sake! Stick your damnable ego in your back pocket and keep it there from 8-5-- it has no place at work, and can only cause bad things to happen.

[slackmaster]

17. Me too, LW, you are making a whole lot of sense here

It's only words, it's only a job; neither are worth peoples' lives.

[boilinmad]

18. Why would anyone do that...

..when they can act real macho and go grab their guns??? GUNS FUCKING SUCK !!

[Mojorabbit]

23. No

people with anger management problems suck.

[slackmaster]

27. I see the results of anger management problems on the road almost daily

:argh:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

60. Apparently we have some anger management issues right here.

[Lars39]

20. The guy might have had the supervisor from hell.

Petty tyrants' acts can go far beyond mere words and bruised egos.

[slackmaster]

21. I had one of those for four years

Funny, the thought of shooting up the office never entered my mind.

[Lars39]

25. Wouldn't cross most people's minds either.

This guy had other issues.

[LanternWaste]

26. Yet we all have the choice to react-- or not

"Petty tyrants' acts can go far beyond mere words and bruised egos."

Yet we all have the choice to react appropriately or not to ANY given situation, regarldess of whether it takes place in a work environment or even at one's home. I've had the Supervisor from hell in my time and I never pulled a gun on him, spoke disrespectfully to him, or did anything other than my job.

How we act or react to any given situation is for all intents and purposes, our choice-- not the choice of the person we are acting or reacting to. No one can MAKE us mad, we simply allow ourselves to lose control, or not.

[One_Life_To_Give]

22. Lack of access to mental health?

Probably 100,000 people got yelled at by there boss across america on the evening shift, with millions more during the day shift. People who commit such acts are exceptions. Wonder how many people knew that, individuals who eventually do such things, needed professional help long before.

Perhaps if we paid more attention to helping each other, looking out for one another and being our brothers keeper. We might actually get people help before they end up taking their own lives and the lives of others with them.

[LanternWaste]

29. I imagine there many are people whose

I imagine there many are people whose lack of self-control may be predicated on mental health issues. I also imagine there are many more individuals who just get mad-- as it's a short-term, self-satisfying, visceral reaction.

An extension (perhaps) of the Flight-or-Fight instinct.

Edit (made it by that much) to fix glaringly obvious grammar error

[dysfunctional press]

15. i wonder how many applications they'll get for those 5 jobs.

nt

[slackmaster]

16. The SC decision coming out tomorrow will be VERY NARROW in scope

Many fear that if the Court affirms an individual 2nd amendment right, most of our current gun laws will be gone.

Those fears are as irrational as the DC law that was overturned.

[villager]

31. yes, because this is such a trustworthy Supreme Court

n/t

[michreject]

33. Like em or not,......which I don't

Their judgements stand as the law of the land.

[villager]

39. I suppose people said that about Dred Scott, too...

n/t

[Endangered Specie]

69. What about the recent Gitmo ruling?

[Endangered Specie]

71. Seems to me, the most the supreme court could do with the case

is make outright bans (de jure and de facto) of handguns unconstitutional, I bet the court will keep it very narrow and probably not touch on any of the 'meat' gun laws like the NFA, GCA, or state-AWB

[Javaman]

28. Another issue here other than guns...

there is nothing in this article saying what the argument was about.

Why is that important?

(this is only assumption on my part)

the price of oil going up has also increased the price of plastics. As the price of plastics go up, manufacturers are having a hard time staying on top of cost. As a result, they have to cut back on labor force.

Now this being Kentucky and I believe that they are experiencing a higher than normal level of unemployment, could it be that this guy went ape shit, because his hours were being cut back? or that he was going to be let go?

not apologizing for this guy in the least but given our less than stella economy, I think it is possible that these kinds of incidents will become more and more common as the county continues it's slide into the shitter.

the harder an area is economically hit, the higher the likelihood that people will become desperate.

Lack of unions equals lack of power for the people. People feel helpless and therefore will become desperate.

[electricmonk]

36. Or they sped the machines up and he couldn't keep up with it

I'm a night shift supervisor in a plastics factory and last year word came down that we had to speed the machines up to the maximum the parts would still come out good with. There were lots of unhappy workers including me but after awhile you get used to it. Just those first few days you feel like Lucy in the candy factory and it does stress you to have a machine throwing parts out every 15 seconds that you have to trim, inspect, pack or do other secondary operations to.

As a supervisor you get a feel with new hires whether they can handle the stress or not pretty quickly. I also make sure I talk to my crew like they are adults and treat them with respect. Wish I could say the same for some of the others. One guy is always yelling at his crew over some of the dumbest shit. I've asked him why he does that and he says it's the only way he can get them to do anything. I don't believe that but he's higher up the ladder than I am so there's not much I can do about it.

[Javaman]

41. Very good point. nt

[uppityperson]

37. THAT is what I was going to post/ask about. WHY?

The plastics factory jumped out at me since my obsession this wk is how oil prices are/will affect plastics industry. I would like to know why. Nice to see someone else is asking too.

[Javaman]

40. maybe the why wasn't reported because, like looking into the abyss

the answer could be, "that could be anyone of us".

We exist in strange times.

[villager]

42. 6 dead in Henderson, Ky., plastics plant shooting

Source: AP

6 dead in Henderson, Ky., plastics plant shooting

By RYAN LENZ, Associated Press

HENDERSON, Ky. - An employee shot and killed a supervisor and four others after an argument at a western Kentucky plastics plant in a rampage that ended in the gunman's suicide, police and a company official said Wednesday.

The shooting happened around midnight at Atlantis Plastics in this Ohio River town of about 28,000 people.

The employee, a press operator, began arguing with a supervisor and was escorted from the building, company CEO Bud Philbrook told The Associated Press.

As the employee was leaving, he took out a gun, shot the supervisor, then charged back into a break room and shot several employees. Then he returned to the floor and shot another employee before killing himself, Philbrook said.

"It's just total shock. It's something you read about in the paper what happened at one of our facilities," Philbrook said.

It wasn't clear if the employee was carrying the gun, or if he retrieved it after the argument. "We don't know if the gun was in the car or if he went somewhere to get it," Henderson police Lt. David Piller said

<snip>


Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080625/ap_on_re_us/plant_shooting

[DS1]

43. Stop posting news I don't agree with!

IBTL


:sarcasm:

[villager]

44. Why would a news item be locked?

:shrug:

[DS1]

47. It's a dupe

[villager]

49. awright -- though, alas, the body count has increased since the original posting...

n/t

[otohara]

45. Damn Guns

RIP!

[Junkdrawer]

46. Dupe...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3367020&mesg_id=3367020

[TrogL]

48. nevermind - can't count

[pork medley]

50. 'Going Postal: Rage, Murder, & Rebellion: From Reagan's Workplaces to Clinton's Columbine & Beyond'

An eye-opening look at the phenomenon of school and workplace shootings in America, Going Postal explores the rage-murder phenomenon that has plagued — and baffled — America for the last three decades, and offers some provocative answers to the oft-asked question, "Why?" By juxtaposing the historical place of rage in America with the social climate that has existed since the 1980s — when Reaganomics began to widen the gap between executive and average-worker earnings — the author crafts a convincing argument that these schoolyard and office massacres can be seen as modern-day slave rebellions. He presents many fascinating and unexpected cases in detail. Like slave rebellions, these massacres are doomed, gory, sometimes even inadvertently comic, and grossly misunderstood. Taking up where Bowling for Columbine left off, this book seeks to set these murders in their proper context and thereby reveal their meaning.

http://www.softskull.com/detailedbook.php?isbn=1-932360-82-4

[depakid]

51. Right on schedule

Mass shootings in the states have followed a pattern lately: they're interspersed between major food contaminations and recalls by several weeks.

Curiously, in Australia, I haven' seen either a major food contamination event or a mass shooting in many years. Wonder why that is?

[bossy22]

53. its because of

the kangaroos

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

61. I think it's all the hot chicks

or maybe everyone is too worried about the spiders, snakes and great whites. Maybe though you could just have a less violent culture.

David

[slackmaster]

65. I think we are due for a round of train wrecks

We've had our fill of shark attacks and weather-related catastrophes.

[davsand]

56. Deepest sympathies to all involved.

This kind of thing is awful to hear about. It also hits just a bit too close to home for comfort. We had a most unfortunate workplace issue with an unstable man that went on for far too long, and frankly, I still worry and wonder about my safety in the workplace. The man might have been fired but he's still out there and he's still unstable (as far as anyone knows.) We worked with police protection in our workplace for a time because there was a very real concern that something like this most recent event in Kentucky could happen here.

The man had issued threats and there had been a few episodes of property damage targeting individuals (I had a knife broken off in my car tire after a disagreement with this guy to offer just one example. Another employee had a cement block heaved thru his patio doors.) I spoke to the State's Attorney about it at the time that it happened and literally, was told something to the effect that, "Yep, we know he's nuts, but you can't do anything just because you suspect somebody is crazy." My response was to ask how many people had to get hurt before something could be done and to offer the comment that at least my kid would be rich after the lawsuit if I got killed at work...

He stayed in this workplace for a period of MONTHS growing more and more unstable before finally, they brought law enforcement in as protection in the event of an event. I felt completely betrayed by the system at the time--especially after talking to the State's Attorney. In reflection, however, I have to admit that I am not hip to the idea of living someplace where they could do anything based on a "suspicion" that somebody is gonna be a problem--in spite of how afraid I was at the time. On the flip side, I admit freely that I still am dealing with the emotional impact of living with this fear for so long. Just recently it was suggested that I be screened professionally for PTSD.

I am doing all I can to put this stuff behind me, and I have NO idea what that is gonna be like for those people in that workplace in Kentucky where somebody actually carried out the promise of violence that so many of us all deal with in our workplaces every day.



Laura

[Junkdrawer]

79. Kick

:kick: