Exclusive: No ice at the North Pole

[whopis01]

Source: The Independent

It seems unthinkable, but for the first time in human history, ice is on course to disappear entirely from the North Pole this year.

The disappearance of the Arctic sea ice, making it possible to reach the Pole sailing in a boat through open water, would be one of the most dramatic – and worrying – examples of the impact of global warming on the planet. Scientists say the ice at 90 degrees north may well have melted away by the summer.

Seasoned polar scientists believe the chances of a totally icefreeNorth Pole this summer are greater than 50:50 because the normally thick ice formed over many years at the Pole has been blown away and replaced by hugeswathes of thinner ice formed over a single year.

The polar regions are experiencing the most dramatic increasein average temperatures due to global warming and scientists fear that as more sea iceis lost, the darker, open ocean will absorb more heat and raise local temperatures even further. Professor Peter Wadhams of Cambridge University, who was one of the first civilian scientists to sail underneath the Arctic sea ice in a Royal Navy submarine,said that the conditions are ripe for an unprecedented melting of the ice at the North Pole.

Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/exclusive-no-ice-at-the-north-pole-855406.html

[Newsjock]

1. 175 reads and 8 rec's ...

... and there really is nothing that can be said, is there. Speaks for itself.

[Maine-ah]

34. speachless?

:shrug:

I for one am so mad at so many things, I have no idea what to say anymore.

[BigDaddy44]

59. So who are you mad at exactly?

Do you drive a car? Do you use oil? This is a collective problem. We are ALL guilty. Nobody put a gun to your head and forced you to contribute to global warming.

Oh, and by the way, if you use public transportation 100% of the time and are truly carbon neutral, then I apologize.

[Shoelace]

72. what public transportation? Bush is cutting Amtrak's budget by 40% (again)

just as he did in 2005. Public transportation should be a "not for profit," publicly owned operation but we get this instead:

But the Bush administration argues that rail system has been run inefficiently for too long and “hemorrhaged” taxpayer subsidies, while failing to make changes that could put it on sounder financial footing.

“The idea is for Amtrak to run as a business. It is a for-profit corporation,” said Steve Kulm, Federal Railroad Administration spokesman.
http://www.mgwashington.com/index.php/news/article/bush-would-cut-amtrak-funding-40-percent/498/

Then we have this:
America's crumbling transportation system: Back channel political gamesmanship--and the national security implications

Wes Vernon
January 21, 2008

This is the story of what may turn out to be another chapter in the nearly 90-year-long crusade by the Highway Lobby to stifle dissent on the part of anyone who dares to challenge its right to the mindless paving over of America. What is at stake: America grinding to a virtual halt, as our enemies use oil to blackmail us to our knees.
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/vernon/080121

I'd almost kill to get back our old fashioned trolleys or streetcars that used to be in every city, remember them? I do!
This one factor will cripple America in coming months, years and sad to say, it's going to be particularly hard on the middle, lower middle class who can't afford to "go green" by buying hybrids, etc.
The rest of it we've done in terms of our carbon footprint but the public transportation problem is the Elephant in the room.

[Megahurtz]

138. There are plenty of non-collective problems

to be mad about in this Country.

[Joey Liberal]

164. I'm mad at the republicans

Because they don't give a damn about global warming. Yes, there is plenty of blame to go around. But the republicans truly do not give a damn about global warming.

[Maine-ah]

185. no public transportation in my neck of the woods

as for what I'm mad at?

well, hell lets start with 2000 election...the destruction of our constitution, Iraq war, democrats not standing up to this administration, stagnant wages, economy colapsing,

do you want me to go on?

[defendandprotect]

167. May I say that aggressiveness/violence on the levels we have seen from

this administration could do that to you --- !!!

Especially when there is so little reply from Democrats ---

I mean think about it --- Europeans have called Bush out more than these Dems!

[Joe Bacon]

42. Hey kids, Bush drowned Santa Claus!

Chalk up another one for President Asshole. Think of all the kids who are going to go to bed crying their eyes out because Bush drowned Santa Claus!
Way to go, President Asshole! Grover Norquist is so proud of you for drowning Santa's Workshop in your bathtub!

[Phred42]

51. Christmas has been cancelled.

Wal-Mart has crapped in it's corporate pants

[bdamomma]

69. I hope Santa knows how to swim, and those poor elves

I hate W.

[enough already]

153. I hate W more...

...I can't believe this news. He's guaranteed that we're all going to get killed.

[Joe Bacon]

168. OOPS, there goes Superman's Fortress of Solitude, too!

Damn, it's one thing to fuck with Santa, But now Dubya's messing with Superman too!

[Spiffarino]

77. Because global warming is such a painful topic?

That they read and don't recommend betrays a sense of helplessness, perhaps. Even I find myself not opening global warming posts from time to time. Sometimes it's just too hard to face.

[Terry in Austin]

85. You can tell how many reads?

Not to take anything away from the seriousness of the OP, but where do you find out how many reads?

Thanks from a relative newbie.

[Terry in Austin]

86. D'oh! Never mind

:dunce:

[Popol Vuh]

104. December 2012 getting closer

n/t

[Megahurtz]

143. Yup.

Know whatcha mean. :(

[annm4peace]

2. Wouldn't if help

if the damn ships, boats, airplanes.. stayed away from the ice caps.

what if they also banned the cruise ships and other ships that really don't need to be near the ice.

[XemaSab]

82. I've had that thought before

Maybe it's all the arctic researchers crawling around up there who are contributing to the weakening of the ice. :P

[eowyn_of_rohan]

159. More likely those SOBs drilling for OIL up there...

probably melting or destroying the ice intentionally so they can get to the oil faster - I would not be surprised at ALL.

From an article LAST year...
As climate change liberates the Arctic Ocean from ice, it is also triggering a race to claim the ownership of natural resources. First Russia, and now Denmark, the United States and Canada are launching geological expeditions to support their claims. Their calculation: If the polar ice cap melts, they will get access to massive oil and gas reserves.

....In this inhospitable environment, the pack ice builds up to a thickness of 15 meters (49 feet). The sheets of ice, driven by currents, are under extreme pressure. "I'm not confident enough yet to say whether we'll reach our destination," says Marcussen. If the mission fails, millions of euros will have been sunk in the world's "eighth ocean."

But it would be less of a scientific and more of a political setback. Marcussen is in the region on behalf of the Danish government, which is keen to see the data the geophysicist hopes to collect from the icy depths with the aid of seismic waves.

...Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen shed plenty of crocodile tears last week when he met with German Chancellor Angela Merkel to lament Greenland's melting glaciers.

In truth, though, the nations bordering the Arctic are just waiting for the North Pole to finally become ice-free. Global warming is likely to do them the favor, and even faster than was previously thought."
(HOW CONVENIENT? :eyes: )

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,501034,00.html

[mcollier]

160. Didn't you know that

Canada, US and Russia are using fleets of Ice Breaker ships the break down the artic ice seeing an opportunity to cut down on transportation costs by using the northern straits of the artic.... We can thank these governments and the corporations that run them...

[emmadoggy]

3. K & R

:scared: :scared: :scared:

[gristy]

4. holy sh** look at the comments - or not if you don't want to throw up

The ignorance is broad and deep. Very disheartening.
http://blogs.independent.co.uk/openhouse/2008/06/have-your-say-9.html#comments

Just a sample:

Posted by: Mark Underwood | Friday, 27 June 2008 at 01:48 AM

So what? If I fill my G&T to the meniscus, including as many ice cubes as you like, when the ice cubes melt, my G&T does not overflow the rim of the glass. Hence, if the (floating) arctic ice cap melts, it has zero effect on sea level. It really does float, as evidenced by a friend of mine, who drove his submarine under it without bumping in to anything.


Posted by: Chris Morris | Friday, 27 June 2008 at 02:00 AM

How come Manhatten and Florida aren't submerged.
They told us when the ice melted people would die everywhere?


Posted by: khawk | Friday, 27 June 2008 at 02:01 AM

This is ridiculous. Do the people who make these claims actually research anything? Right now the temperatures in the arctic are far LOWER than they usually are at this time of year. As low as -30 degrees, in fact. It's this intense cold that's sparking the large number of tornadoes in the US (since, remember, storms like that are formed by clashing of cold air from the north and warm air from the south).

And last time I checked, ice didn't melt at -30 degrees.


Posted by: infernumflame | Friday, 27 June 2008 at 02:02 AM

Show me the satellite image from space that demonstrates this. You never see any imaging to support their claims.

[Kool Kitty]

8. If stupidity was electricity,

these people would be a powerhouse.

[lutefisk]

23. Or they could take an electric rocket to the planet Moranus . . .

. . . and never insult the planet Earth again.

[BEZERKO]

62. The little bug to the side of your comment

reminds me of Andy Kauffman's rolling picture gag on his television special. The joke was that everyone watching the show would start slapping their televisions and fiddling with the vertical hold trying to stop it. Why? Because I kept slapping at it trying to kill it till I figured out it was an icon.

[live love laugh]

120. Really stupid one: "Right now the temperatures in the arctic are far LOWER than they usually are"

Uhhhh yeah...BECAUSE THE ICE MELTED AND COOLED IT!!!!!

DUH

[HughMoran]

9. The morans are worried though

The fact that they post such crap shows they are concerned that it might be true.

[Glenda]

176. good point n/t

[Blue_Tires]

16. two decades of RW talk radio and oil company-funded 'scientists'

and shortfunding education has paid off in spades...the shift to the new order has exceeded all expectations...

EDIT: as I read through them, it is worse than I thought...overwhelmingly american voices, and overwhelmingly anti-science

[Joanne98]

33. This is one case where I DO believe in the death penalty..

Charge them with crimes against humanity and put them all in the electric chair.. FRY...

[FiveGoodMen]

139. No, that would just create more heat.

[knight_of_the_star]

162. Let 'em do the drop and stop then

Only heat coming from there will be when the corpses void their bowels.

[Baby Snooks]

28. The problem is the South Pole

Your analogy of the ice cube is of course correct. The problem is not the icecap of the North Pole. It is the icecap of the South Pole which lies on top of an actual continent. There is also the icecap of Greenland. Those are not "icecubes" and they will add to the volume of water in the oceans. They will also, in the case of the icecap of Greenland, add fresh water to the salt water of the Gulf Stream. The effect of which no one knows.

There are many things we do not know about the effects of climate change due to global warming. Previous periods of warming were natural events. This is not a natural event. Even if it is, it has been worsened by both air and water pollution as well as deforestation of equatorial rainforests. People tend to forget that water pollution indirectly affects climate patterns.

The strangest phenomenon of all is the significantly sub-freezing temperatures in the Arctic which as you point out is affecting our current weather patterns. But those are surface temperatures. Not water temperatures. And the water temperatures obviously have warmed significantly and have allowed the icecaps to melt.

Who is to say that at some point superstorms may not form and sweep into the United States and Northern Europe and Northern Russia and indeed just suddenly flash freeze everything and everyone in their paths? That in fact happens in the Arctic and Antarctic if people are not properly insulated against the cold. Doesn't happen often but it does happen.

If they were to form during the winter instead of the summer, the temperatures might be -50 degrees. Or even colder. Alaska and Siberia have had temperatures of around -80 degrees at times.

If the same superstorms formed in the Antarctic regions, the temperatures could possibly be in excess of -100 degrees. Our buildings in both the Northern Hemisphere and the Southern Hemisphere are not insulated well enough to protect us from temperatures that cold.

Regardless of anything, the disappearance of the icecap of the North Pole is not a good portent of things to come.

All the Bush administration sees is the ability to drill. Which will only make the problem worse. Particularly if they hit methane pockets.

That is not a good portent of things to come either.

[Imagevision]

73. K&R!

[ohio2007]

105. People also ignore the role played by the character at the center of our solar system

All humanity is at the mercy of sunspots but the new experts don't want you to look up at the sun and factor it into the equation.
If we could truely understand and predict long term outlooks for storms on the sun, we could know when hell freezes over or if Canada will be producing three wheat harvests a year.

At any rate, this thread is a keeper for a year in review look back. Unless it gets deleted.

[Barrett808]

110. There is no correlation between sunspots and climate:

Please see Spencer Weart's excellent history of global warming. In particular, read about attempts to find sunspot correlations:

http://www.aip.org/history/climate/solar.htm

[ohio2007]

134. Spencer is clueless

The sun has no impact on heating the earth....

So it was the dinosaurs caused global warming eh?

[Barrett808]

140. Of course, the sun provides the energy for warming, but the atmosphere regulates radiation balance

i.e., gases in the atmosphere regulate how much radiation is emitted back into space. Variations in solar output, called total solar irradiance (TSI), are insufficient by a large margin to account for the observed warming trend.

Really, I urge you to read the excellent Weart history. It's beautifully written and will answer all your questions.

[greenman3610]

119. the sun connection has been roundly disproven in a dozen peer reviewed studies

see

http://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.htm

I have this debate regularly with various skeptics who
are always poorly informed and/or selective in their
choice of data.
Be very clear: At this point, when well informed grown ups
sit down to talk about important issues, we can all agree on
some basic facts.
a) the earth goes around the sun
b) There were no weapons of mass destruction
c) Anthropogenic climate change is a fact, and the
fundamental challenge of this decade and century.

Get these clear if you want to be considered a serious person.

[ohio2007]

137. Nasa has a planned mission to the sun

We will see what data they uncover.

[Megahurtz]

145. Or maybe the one at the end of our Solar System.

:hide:

[sudopod]

180. Sunspots don't mean much with respect to the thermal output of the sun

Those things are determined over the course of thousands and millions of years as the Sun steadily fuses its supply of hydrogen into helium with only occasional and brief changes in average output. It should be noted that the sun is carefully observed at all times by amateur and professional astronomers as well as several satellites and probes that are maintained by a number of national space agencies. A substantial change in solar output would be blindingly obvious and would be front page news.

Sunspots are just regions of plasma on the sun's photsphere that are trapped by magnetic field lines passing through the surface. Plasma is a conductor of electric current; this "drag" force is the same as the one you can feel if you pass a loop of copper wire through a magnetic field. These sunspot regions are cooler than surrounding regions since they cannot mix with deeper, hotter regions, but they are not cool except in a relative sense: they are still 4000 K, wheras the "bright" areas surrounding them are 5,800 K.

Sunspots occur in cycles as the sun's magnetic field shifts polarity once every 11 or so years

A good explanation with pictures can be found here:

http://www.windows.ucar.edu/cgi-bin/tour_def/sun/atmosphere/sunspots.html

The source of most of our climate problems can be found here on earth. Also, it should be pointed out that if fiery or shivering death descends upon us from the sun, there really isn't much that we can do about it, so let's assume that it isn't the sun and instead try to change the factors that we DO have control over. ;)

[defendandprotect]

165. There are also serious repercussions from the mixing of ...

salt and fresh water ---

PLUS the weight of water is not minor ---

which leads some to suggest that we might have an polar shift ---

There have been reports a decade back, perhaps, that the dams and reservoirs which our

Army Corps of Engineers built over the last 50 - now 60 - years is "impacting the

rotation of the earth."

Our planet has never been very sturdy on its axis ---

[beac]

31. So..... it sounds like all we need to stop global warming is...

one HUGE bottle of Bombay Sapphire and a gillion-dozen limes!





Here's to our fellow pig-ignorant Americans! Cheers!

[winter999]

40. So how far is London above sea level?

I remember not long ago when people were saying that the polar caps would never melt. The canary in the mine is dead. Start looking toward the South Pole.

Thanks for drowning Santa.

[truebrit71]

80. Not much....hence the Thames Barrier...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thames_Barrier

Of course that means you are well and truly buggered downstream....

[Wednesdays]

142. London is 157 feet above sea level, per this chart

http://www.hargravesfluidics.com/pdf/alt_city.pdf

(And the official altitude was probably measured someplace far away from the Thames...along the banks I'll bet it's much lower.)

Some cities less than 50 feet above sea level:

Abu Dubai, 33 feet
Amsterdam, 0 feet (a huge chunk of the Netherlands is BELOW sea level)
Bangkok, 26 feet
Boston, 20 feet
Colombo, Sri Lanka, 23 feet
Karachi, Pakistan, 13 feet
Manila, Philippines, 46 feet
New Orleans, 6 to 20 feet BELOW sea level
Singapore, 16 feet
Venice, 0 feet
Wellington, New Zealand, 10 feet

There are another 18 cities listed on the chart with elevations under 100 feet.

[Barrett808]

146. The big concern is port facilities, which necessarily must be at sea level. n/t

[SpookyCat]

87. You don't know anything about science.

What we need to do, see, is go get a giant ice cube from Haley's commet and drop it into the ocean every now and then!

Just like my daddy puts in his drink in the morning...and then he gets mad...

[daggahead]

49. Some of these statements may be true ...

... but because the sea ice in the Arctic is "floating," it means that the absensce of it will accelerate the warming feedback loop.

My biggest concern is the land-based ice sheet on Greenland. If that thing slides into the Atlantic, then there will indeed be a rise in sea level. Not only that, but there could be a disruption in the tropical current that keeps northern Europe habitable.

I have kids, and I fear for their futures.

Also, Bush did not cause this, but he sure could have helped slow it down by working with 90% of the rest of the world on the Kyoto Treaty and the subsequent revisions.

[BigDaddy44]

60. Of COURSE Bush caused this

How dare you suggest otherwise!!!

[glitch]

64. Don't forget Reagan/Bush. A Bush "not helping" has been going on for 28 years. nt

[enough already]

154. He most certainly did cause it

That idiot knew exactly what he was doing when trashed Kyoto and started an illegal war. The bombing alone has destroyed the environment. I hate him.

[The Croquist]

50. Show me the satellite image from space that demonstrates this. You never see any imaging to support

Posted by: infernumflame | Friday, 27 June 2008 at 02:02 AM

Show me the satellite image from space that demonstrates this. You never see any imaging to support their claims.


The satellite images that "you never see" can be seen here.
http://nsidc.org/cgi-bin/bist/bist.pl?annot=1&legend=1&scale=100&tab_cols=1&tab_rows=2&config=seaice_index&submit=Refresh&mo0=08&hemis0=N&img0=extn&year0=2007&year1=1983&.cgifields=no_panel

Sea Ice Extent August 1984 8.4 million square kilometers.
Sea Ice Extent August 2007 5.3 million square kilometers.

[Barrett808]

113. Please visit Cryosphere today for satellite images:

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere

In particular, see:

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/arctic.seaice.2007.update.mov

[RoccoR5955]

66. Gristy... Flawed logic

Yes Gristy, if you filled your G&T all the way up to the meniscus including the ice, when it melted, there would be no overflow. However, if you had something floating on top of the meniscus, that had ice on top of it, you would overflow. Such is the case in Iceland, Northern Canada, Nordic countries, and other polar regions. Where does the ice melt go to? The last time I looked, it all goes out to sea. And if Greenland's ice melts, there will be an impact on coastal areas. You can bet your friend's submarine on that!

[The Croquist]

107. No it wouldn't

If you have a block of wood and put an ice cube on top of it the wood will sink until it displaces the weight of the ice in water. When the ice melts and flows off of the wood into the water the wood will float higher in the water and there will still be no effect on the water level.

The problem is that the ice is on land and not wood. The land isn't floating but is touching the bottom of the ocean. When ice accumulates on the land the land doesn't sink (actually it does but it takes tens or hundreds of thousands of years).

Melting sea ice is a symptom of warming but will not raise sea level. Watch the ice on land (Antarctica and Greenland).

[Barrett808]

123. Yes, think of a bowl of water, with an ice cube on the rim

This is like the Arctic Ocean with ice on the surrounding land. Tip the cube in, and the water level in the bowl rises.

[gristy]

157. That wasn't my logic - those were reposted comments to an article

Just needed to make that clear.

[JDPriestly]

71. Re the comments posted by Gristy

I bet the same folks who wrote these skeptical comments believe every word their preacher says on Sunday morning. They don't believe in global warming, but they do believe that people who don't believe whatever they believe go to hell when they die, that homosexuality is an abomination, that Bush is a Christian, etc. . . . . .

They never learned how to assess information. They believe what they think their friends believe.

[frylock]

111. my friend drove his submarine under it without bumping into anything..

all my friends have submarines!! :rofl:

[DaveJ]

155. Actually, I think these questions are worth answering...

Personally I think these are good questions, so if anyone knows the answers then it would enlighten a lot of folks, including me.

[Barrett808]

174. Some good sites for answering your climate change questions:

The indispensible RealClimate:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/05/start-here

Tamino's Open Mind
http://tamino.wordpress.com/

Climate scepticism: The top 10

What are some of the reasons why "climate sceptics" dispute the evidence that human activities such as industrial emissions of greenhouse gases and deforestation are bringing potentially dangerous changes to the Earth's climate?

As the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) finalises its landmark report for 2007, we look at 10 of the arguments most often made against the IPCC consensus, and some of the counter-arguments made by scientists who agree with the IPCC.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/629/629/7074601.stm

[NickB79]

184. Some asshat thinks it's -30F at the North Pole right now? It's +34F: MELTING TEMPS

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x157722

It's got to be willful ignorance, that's all it can be.

[Pisces]

5. I read this earlier. There is nothing to say that will make a difference. We have chosen our course,

and now we will pay the price. Even if everyone stopped driving today we can not slow down the warming. The alarmist that were ringing the bell 10 yrs ago who were called whackos must be banging their heads against the wall.

[RoccoR5955]

67. Nope Piscies... We don't bang out heads...

We merely point out that we were correct, and the people who didn't want smaller cars, conservation, and alternate means of power production are the ones at fault.

[undergroundpanther]

133. ain't it the truth?

we are so fucked.
Nothing to do but wait for the shoe to fall now.The tipping point has passed,like it or not..and ironically we still have the optimists,more like pronoiacs now too late hoping it's not never... And we may watch the previously apathetic and can do's ten years too late to do anything freak out when the truth that was known ten, twenty or more years ago by the wackos that got nothing but ignored and treated like shit for their efforts... comes to pass.

I'm getting really tired of the can do attitude when in reality,no,we can't do,this time humanity let it's leaders encourage them to bury their heads in buying stuff,sit on their asses play the success game,and they refused to hear the warnings.Because it came from wackos,fit to be ignored back then...Now comes the result of this collective choice to trust corporations and states to care for us instead of taking care of each other...And people would rather deny it is over still ,than face it and love the people around them self like they'd never see them again.No they keep the nose to the grindstone drive to work everyday,and think fluorescent light bulbs, sorting paper from plastic,that ends up in the same landfill..or going vegetarian matters,.anyway..Sigh.and be aware... I am no right wing asshole.

[sudopod]

181. ANGST ANGST ANGST! lol nt

[orleans]

6. well--it hasn't happened yet. hopefully it won't. greater than 50/50 chance

article says. but there is still ice there now.

(although when i've encountered worse odds...it was always a bad outcome)

fuck.

k&r.

[balantz]

7. I'll bet that all the fat oil cats can think is "Yes, more access to oil reserves!"

[SammyWinstonJack]

38. You know that is exactly what they are thinking. Short sighted GREED PIGS!

:argh:

[Divine Discontent]

10. so is this going to kill even more polar bears? or are they...

down on the ice further off the North Pole? or are they saying none of that 'thick ice' in the graph will be there either?

[Frisbee]

15. RE: so is this going to kill even more polar bears?

I believe so. Along with getting closer to the tipping point where it will also kill many humans. I keep hearing/reading that we don't have much time left to do something. Excuse me? I think that time came and when long ago. Things are going to get bad, real bad. The only question now is the time frame, and that keeps seeming to speed up as well. I remember reading an article, I believe it was in Discover magazine, a long time ago about the ice melting and diluting the sea water long before the movie The Day After Tomorrow, predicting that Europe would become pretty much a frozen wasteland when the whatever they called it (conveyor system?) finally shut down. They when talking 100 years out then, now I expect that in my lifetime is not unreasonable. Yup, we were given this wonderful beautiful planet and we have pretty much fucked it up. Why this hasn't been the biggest political issue for the last 10-15 years is beyond me.

[XemaSab]

18. The "conveyor system" is the Gulf Stream

which carries warm water from the Caribbean up to Norway and beyond... it's the reason that England and Ireland are pretty temperate while at the latitude of Newfoundland and the southern tip of Alaska. :shrug:

[Frisbee]

19. Thanks...

that was what immediately came to mind, but that doesn't always mean anything! I remember hearing a climatologist interviewed shortly after the movie The Day After Tomorrow came out who said that the science in the movie was sound as far as that part went. Obviously the people being basically freeze dried and that change occurring in days were a problem, but this is a very real threat, and I can only imagine the effects it would lead to. Hopefully Obama is thinking get elected first, then take this shit real seriously. While as I said, I believe we have passed the tipping point, that doesn't mean we can't still try to minimize the effects and plan for the results.

[XemaSab]

20. The word on the street

is that if we were to stop burning ALL fossil fuels tomorrow, it would take 600 years for the climate to return to pre-industrial carbon levels.

Think about THAT while you're falling asleep tonight. :o

[tekisui]

32. It's going to be a long hard road.....

for all of us in the coming decades. Regardless of what choices we make, or fail to make. It is going to be a test of who can pull together and creativity.

[Nevernose]

101. IIRC, the first study on that was done by Wood's Hole Oceanographic

IIRC, the first study on that was done by Wood's Hole Oceanographic Institute. You could probably google them for more information.

[Megahurtz]

147. Because the World Elites

don't give a shit. They'll all just hole up in their giant underground bunkers while the rest of the population gets reduced just like they want.

[Norrin Radd]

11. What exactly does your average, trogolodyte freeper care about

acknowledging global climate change, anyway? It's not like they have huge investments in polluters, or will ever come near being a member of "bush's base."

[winter999]

41. Their song will change when they start loosing their beachside property.

[Kierkegaard]

47. And, when their trailers become houseboats.

[Posteritatis]

97. Nah, only rich lib'rulz have beachside property. They'll worry when they start *gaining* some. (nt)

[WheelWalker]

12. Guess we knew what we were doing when we gave away the Panama Canal...nt

[Blue State Bandit]

13. Off, yet on topic, I have a Nat/Sec concern that I have yet to hear about...

much of anywhere. Does the absence of polar ice increase our vulnerability to a landing of foreign troops and heavy equipment onto North America via boat, with most of our naval fleet tied up in the mid-east/indian ocean region? At the very least, the speed at which the cap collapsed may have caught us off guard. All of the mineral deposits exposed by this will bring a lot of tension to the region. And a rush of traffic...

[Hekate]

14. Strangely enough, the top guys in the military are on it. They've written papers on the implications

...of global climate change for national security. The civilians in charge for the past 8 years may be blithering blind idiots, but the military is actually run by intelligent men.

Hekate

edited to add -- no links from me, but the topic has come up and articles have been posted here at DU over the past several years, so it's out there

[Marrah_G]

76. Getting troops through northern canada in the summer would be difficult

I believe crossing the ice would be easier.

[XemaSab]

17. Once again...

[Hannah Bell]

21. To make sure i get it, this is a satellite picture of the n. pole - with ice?

what's the white?

[XemaSab]

24. That's today's ice update

The white areas are islands that are covered in snow or ice (such as Greenland), the deep purple areas are areas of full ice concentration, the lighter purple areas are areas of 80% concentration, the red areas are areas of 60% concentration, the yellow areas are areas of 40% concentration, and the black areas are open water.

The article's headline is a little misleading. Some scientists are projecting that the pole may melt this summer. Much of the arctic is covered with notoriously weak first-year ice, and there's a real possibility that all the first-year ice could just dissolve.

The image updates every day... check back this time next month to see if the ice is melting for real. :P

[Hannah Bell]

26. it doesn't look too dire today.

could you post a link?

[XemaSab]

79. Sure

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/

It doesn't look too dire today, but last year we lost a LOT of ice very quickly. I think they're worried that the same thing could happen this year too.

[DCKit]

25. Greenland. n/t

[Seabiscuit]

22. I seriously fear for my 3-year old son's future on this planet.

I could move him to another country to escape the fascist U.S. military-industrial complex running this nation, and escape the mind-numbing dumbed-down pop culture here, but global warming (largely thanks to those in charge here) will affect everyone everywhere.

[emmadoggy]

103. That's where I'm at, too.

I have twin 6-year-olds. I am truly petrified for them. This is all happening, as the motto on the E/E board goes, "faster than predicted". It's accelerating at a frightening pace and I am truly terrified about what kind of world and what sort of existence my children will have in 10, 15, 20, 40 years.

It feels like the whole world is falling apart at the seams right now......and it feels pretty permanent.


:cry: :cry: :scared: :scared:

[galledgoblin]

27. approaching tipping point...

when the methane in the polar ice goes, we enter full-fledged worldwide crisis stage.

not to say that we aren't already in a full-fledged worldwide crisis, but that we can fix this currently without nearly as much hurt.

it's the difference between choosing to change our lives and change being forced upon us.

[dipsydoodle]

29. Methane is in the surrounding permafrost

not the arctic ice. Its the progressive knock on effect which could let the permafrost warm and trigger the release of methane from the frozen solid hydrates. Think I'm right anyway - search to see what you find.

[galledgoblin]

114. no, you're right, that's what I meant to say

which is why I said we're approaching the tipping point, not that it's already here.

[truebrit71]

81. I think we've already passed it...we just don't know it yet...

..and don't forget the BILLIONS of tons of methane being unlocked from the Arctic permafrost daily...

We cannot stop the impending catastrophe, we can only try and minimize them...

[bean fidhleir]

30. And "alarmist" Dr. Lovelock turns out to be **optimist** Dr. Lovelock

He predicted no-ice would occur in 2020-2025, and was called "fool", "alarmist", and every other insult, even by other scientists (who of course were more restrained in their language).

I don't think we should be betting against his prediction that the human population in 2100 will only be maybe 1G people, most of us enslaved to psychopathic warlords.

[JVS]

43. Dude! Postapocalyptice wasteland! Awesome!

[Cali_Democrat]

35. Don't be shocked by the comments after the article

The entire article is linked to Drudge right now.

In fact, it's the #1 article on his front page right now.

Obviously wing nuts will be commenting.

[winter999]

44. That's ok. The more they oppose the obvious, the more

ridiculous they appear. Think of the Church and Galileo, Flat Earthers, those who say cigarettes aren't linked to lung cancer. With this story and the near future PROOF, these people will become non-issue. What we really need to concentrate on is our politicians.

Obama, ready to step up?

We fucked up the atmosphere, but we can clean it too. Have faith.

[Honeycombe8]

36. Geez...I was hoping I'd be dead fr old age by the time this happened.

I guess not. These sorts of things have been warned about for years.

Don't we have any leaders who will step up to the plate and take some strong action in the global warming area? So far, we haven't had any.
I'm disgusted with them.

[Lorien]

65. Most of us here will probably never reach old age

climate change will mean starvation, more war, disease...it's going to get much, much uglier very quickly. The other species on this planet don't deserve the fate we're handing them, but we do, unfortunately.

Has Obama talked seriously about this issue and any real SOLUTIONS yet? If so, I've never heard it.

[undergroundpanther]

135. maybe because there ain't no

solutions.really.

Nasa maybe knows something we are refusing to face?
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/22/science/22nasa.html

[Barrett808]

144. That's just standard Bush mob suppression of climate science...

...like when they blew Brewster Jennings and Valerie Plame's cover -- they didn't want any US investigators in Iraq and Iran countering their crazy claims about WMDs.

[Megahurtz]

148. I'm sure they do. n/t

[WillParkinson]

37. Poor Santa...

I hope his workshop is OK.

That said, thank you Mr. Bush for caring enough to help stop this nightmare. Oh wait. You didn't. Bastard.

[hatrack]

39. This calls for . . . MORE STUDY! A blue-ribbon panel! An entirely new report!

:eyes:

[XemaSab]

83. The scientific method:

research it until it goes away. :P

[hatrack]

94. I just hope the results of those studies and blue-ribbon panels arrive . ..

FASTER THAN EXPECTED!!

[XemaSab]

95. If you expect them NEVER, then just getting them at all would be

[greenman3610]

45. National Snow and Ice Data Center- always worth checking

their graph is updated frequently, and shows how close we are to the
record pace of last year.
Winter ice froze back to greater area, but historically low
thickness, so it is melting at a faster rate this year than last.

[hopewell1985]

46. hey

good job Bush/McCain

[bdamomma]

48. like Carlin said

the earth will shake us off like a bunch of fleas.

[meowomon]

52. We can't just hold rethuglicans responsible for this

Plenty of Democrats have walked in lockstep with them. Many Democrats are driving around in SUV's. We must hold all elected officials accountable for their votes.

[windoe]

53. Like any organism with a disease,

The Earth is fighting it with a fever. She will survive, along with some life.

[truebrit71]

54. Bloody hell....

...:eek:

[Lint Head]

55. The planet is dying and the criminals are winning.

They are so ignorant that they don't realize that 'winning' means catastrophic death for everyone. Poverty, thirst, hunger and desolation are waiting in the wings to claim the spoils of man's folly on this planet. :dem:

[defendandprotect]

89. Ignorant and VIOLENT . . .

as long as they win they don't care how much destruction they cause ---

winning is all ---

they're suicidal ---


patriarchy --- organized patriarchal religions -- capitalism ---

all suicidal concepts ---

all brain-washing concepts which citizens don't seem quite able to wake up from!!!

[Guaranteed]

128. The planet isn't dying. Earth will be fine no matter what we do.

We're the ones who are going to end up getting tossed out of the ecosystem.

[Barrett808]

173. But we can take a lot of the biosphere with us...

...Life on Earth will continue, even after such a mass extinction event, but it will take millions of years to recover the previous biodiversity.

[L0oniX]

56. If it gets any warmer up there the Blob will be unfrozen and start absorbing us all again.

Do we really want this to happen again?

[Politicalboi]

57. Is Global warming the cause?

Could it be the alignemt of all the planets that is suppose to happen in 2012. Granted we have polluted this globe for so long now. And we should continue to clean up after ourselves, but if the alignment is the cause there is NOTHING we can do about it. Either way it doesn't look good for us.

[Indenturedebtor]

63. No the alignment has absolutely nothing to do with it. Zilch

I would like to move to Yurp, but now where will I go? Colorado?

[sudopod]

182. "Could it be the alignemt of all the planets that is suppose to happen in 2012. "

NO.

[AngryOldDem]

58. But global warming is one big myth.

:sarcasm:

This is truly frightening. We are killing ourselves.

[defendandprotect]

90. ...and do you get any sense that MOST of the public

yet understands the full reality of what's happening --- ???

Or do they still think this is all in some far, far off future --- ???


See anyone talking about this ??

How about on TV --- ??? !!!!

[AngryOldDem]

124. No, I don't.

And I don't know if it's sinple ignorance or denial.

It's always the mentality of "the future," the "great unknown," the "well, I'm not gonna be around to see it."

Well, I think the future is now. This year's bad weather alone proves that something is going wrong with the environment. I no longer buy the argument that these are all cyclical events.

[undergroundpanther]

130. No.

Somewhere there is a HUGE disconnect on this issue.If it isn't a disconnect there are other reasons this is being denied.
Could it be arbritrary urgency, or denial. or What else?
What is causing this profound disconnect?

You'd think if actions matched words,everyone would be doing their part,roads would be vacant,telecommuting would be more common .We would be drastic with these changes if our very survival as a species depended on changing everything we do to save ourselves, So why isn't it happening yet?
Why the disconnect?

[Apollo11]

61. K&R

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/exclusive-no-ice-at-the-north-pole-855406.html

[defendandprotect]

98. ...but "People Who Really Matter in British Film . . ." above it . .. !!!

[Apollo11]

121. That's the way they lay out their front page

Every Friday the newspaper includes a 32-page Arts & Books magazine with coverage of the latest movies and CDs, etc. They always feature it on the front page of the main section as a way of attracting casual buyers. Believe it or not - British folks are interested in British moviemakers!

[frickaline]

68. HAHA Exclusive ... as if any MSM would print this article

[Jimbo S]

70. Send out a boat with a cam

to record the event when the time comes - sailing to the north pole.

Let the conservatives attempt to refute that.

[XemaSab]

84. There's a webcam!

http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/gallery_np.html

[gasperc]

106. what the pic shows

nice catch, call me crazy but that looks like ice water in the lower edge.

Location: The web cam and instruments you see in the photos were deployed on an ice floe at the North Pole. On the horizon, you see the pressure ridge at the edge of the ice flow. Because the ice floes are drifting with the wind, the location (latitude and longitude) of the camera changes every day. Links to the drift path of the ice flow where the instrumentation and the web cams were deployed are found with the "Weather Data" for each deployment year, under the photos on the Web Cam home page.

[XemaSab]

122. It's been over freezing there for a few weeks

I don't know if it's actually ice water, but it looks slick.

[LeftHander]

74. News Flash - Cira 68,000 B.C....!!!!! HUGH!

Frozen Land Melts, Hunters Discover Wisconsin.

OCONOMOWOC - Hunter's returned this morning with news that the great frozen land to the north was missing. Garok and Unkha were on their "Brokeback Mountain Vision Quest" right of manhood when they discovered while atop the mountain that the land of ice, as described by Garok, "Had pretty much melted.".

[fascisthunter]

75. Reminds Me of the Story of Noah

especially after reading comments from others about Global Warming. The misinformation and lying about this issue needs to be put to rest by repeating Global Warming severity and it's current consequences. If these idiots don't want to take this seriously, fine, but they better not bitch when it effects them on a personal level.

At least I am not a vengeful God as was the case in the story Noah. I wouldn't let these idiots drown, but sometimes, sometimes I think I could do it because they are so arrogant, mean and just plain stupid.

[central scrutinizer]

78. Take that Panama!

You took your stupid canal that we built for you, so our anointed-by-God leader opened up the long sought northwest passage. neener neener

[The Croquist]

112. The first recorded journey of the Northwest Passage was in 1906

http://149.48.228.121/wgbh/nova/arctic/expe-nf.html

It was done by the Amundsen Expedition. It took them 3 years to make it but they were on a scientific expedition and weren't in a hurry. One of the wildest things is that when they were at about 97 degrees west (due north of Kansas) and still 500 miles from Nome Alaska they met a whaler out of San Francisco. The whaler wasn't trying to cross the continent. It sailed very far east looking for whales.

[defendandprotect]

88. Nero fiddling while Rome melts --- ?

[defendandprotect]

91. Btw, what's our CANDIDATE saying about all this . . . ???

Or is he waiting for a Question???

Why jump in --- it's only humanity and the planet sinking --- !!!

[SpookyCat]

92. K&R...good information in the comments, too..n/t

[Hail Lama]

93. Hello all

I know this might sound crazy, but google the movie "global warming or global governance"... Its very informative and I think you should watch it to get an even broader perspective on this issue.. Trust me its good reading...

Also if you have time google Loose Change 2nd Edition!! Happy trails..

[defendandprotect]

99. You're half right . . .

Neo-cons did 9/11 ---

We did Global Warming --- or at least the oil/fossil fuel industries --

and probably even the atomic bomb industry ---

Notice that Bush/Cheney are in denial on Global Warming --- they're not trying to sell it.

[undergroundpanther]

96. if that ice is gone..

What will happen to the methane deposits under it? um-mm,Something along the lines of,We are so fucked, basically.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,547976,00
http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/article/20080601/NEWS/806010302

And remember we on a planet,Earth that is also located in a galaxy embedded in a 'arm' of the galaxy. A galaxy which is spinning in space and expanding along with everything else as it spins.What makes people so quick to blame themselves first?( I think it's because people been conditioned to do that by a psychopathic system of governance.)
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/official_culture.htm
Blaming ourselves does not help solve something bigger than this planet and our tiny greenhouse gas situation ..It might be from forces in space that we might not be able to control.It is known in psychology that a sense of having control gives people a sense of security and effeciency,but the larger forces at work in space I am sure are not worrying about our alleged mental comforts ,or hell bent on exploiting our fears ,and illusions about feeling in control and such like the"leaders" who are exploiting our minds and our society by fostering this"controlled insanity".
These obviously catastrophic global changes on Earth and the other planets could really be from some interactive unknown/known phenomena related to the changes that effect the solar system,the sun, the galaxy, and it's core,as it moves through space,and expands.
That means we are not in control of this change upon us,so why do people continue to not "do anything" as drastic as what some say is required to change the course of global warming? Do you really think by changing our superficial habits like using less fossil fuels, or putting in flouresent bulbs,and such really does anything signifixcant if half the Earth is as apathetic as we are?. Maybe this apathy is an unconsious acceptance of the inevitable?So, it seems if the galaxy is changing ,our Earth is too. Can't we admit the push to change our habits has more to do with OUR lives, how we power civilization and all is because oil is tapped out?

We do not know all there is to know about how space,time, ,dimensions, realities,etc.We do not know all there is to know about how space actually interacts,we theorize,we observe and we have to update everything if certain discoveries change the equation.Regardless, we are limited in studying this universe's patterns,anomalies and are undiscovered forces.Some things we can't yet detect that could effect things even tho we can't detect it now.We cannot use our limited understanding to really understand how space etc.actually works and effects life here and how it all causes the effects that are seen by our telescopes and probes on our solar system and our melting ice caps..It could be the sun, or part of an even larger cycle of things that spans aeon's.We haven't been around long enough and technologically able as we are now
for long enough to see what these cycles are about yet..There's our limited observations and what's known already that we rely on our limited knowledge to make guesses, but truthfully we do not know all the variables in this equation.Really.

To broaden the perspective on climate issues..
Mars is losing it's ice if this global climate warming was all humans fault ..tell me Why the FUCK is MARS poles warming up too? Why are Jupiter's storms changing and has more red spots than ever before,Venus getting brighter? And the sun spewing more bigger flares, gets bigger coronal holes,than what has been recorded before? Why is the Galactic core acting up? Maybe this "saving the planet" is out of our hands.Saving the planet however is a great distraction from the inevitable changes to come on Earth and in the galaxy itself ,as we ride on one of The milky way's spiraling arms as it hurtles through space, in an unknown trajectory into unknown territory.


Motion of galaxies
http://www.astronomynotes.com/galaxy/s7.htm
Mars is warming
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1720024.ece
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html
Other planets are changing, not just ours.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=65165
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/jupiter_spots_040421.html
Is it the sun?
http://www.livescience.com/environment/070312_solarsys_warming.html

Galactic core..bowshocks?
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=probing-the-galactic-core

More ..
http://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0503/0503158.pdf
http://blog.hasslberger.com/2007/01/laviolette_prediction_of_pione.html
http://eprintweb.org/S/authors/All/la/LaViolette

Well? The shit will hit,on Earth,regardless of a rush to "green " technology,green technology is a good idea because the way we power things HAS to change for our sake,but are we puny hairless apes really the most horrid species responsible for fucking up JUPITER'S climate changes??...Do we have to always blame ourselves for climate change if it is not just on Earth but also co-occurring on Mars and Jupiter,Venus etc, too?

[defendandprotect]

102. ...but still trying, eh?

"A RUSH to Green technology" . .. ???

Where do you see us rushing to green technology ---?

We've know about this for about 50 years --- !!! ???

The oil and other fossil fuel industries are to blame not only for the condition but

lying about it for decades ---

See Royal Academy of Science comments on ExxonMobil's propaganda campaign to lie

to the public --- lies and misinformation --- tons of money spent on it.

Let's nationalize the oil industry ---

Get electric cars on the roads ---

[undergroundpanther]

129. Heh I just got chewed for not having a can do

attitude.
People are just really fucked up.

You say the truth of what we face and what people do about it,or don't do and people just react,like you are an evil propagandist.If you say in clear terms what kinds of drastic changes are required to make a dent in this problem ,they bring up superficial changes,and go apathetic or attack you and insult your intelligence. If you try to ask questions outside the box to foster deeper thought you get insulted.

I am beginning to wonder if the human race is secretly suicidal or we are being phased out as a species.
The words and actions do not match,there is a profound disconnect it's glaringly obvious as you said.

And if you DARE point it out,you get shit..

Here is my attempt for today. Warning: It was an Epic Fail. I tried to speculate about climate change,to try to get past the self blame,shaming crap and self righteous posturing.Just got people quibbling,reacting and carping over qualifiers,and can't do,and assuming all sorts of shit about me some,that sounded on verge of paranoia.. sad isn't it?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3531561

[Barrett808]

131. Please see my reply #28 to your thread. The upshot: this is no time for complacency. n/t

[defendandprotect]

163. THIS is not the fault of individuals . . .

This is the fault of patriarchy, organized patriarchal religions, capitalism ---

privatization of our natural resources --- lies, corrupt government ---

WE are not responsible for this --- corporation are.

Yes . . . Global Warming is "Man Made" . . .

but not in the individual sense --- !!!

[Barrett808]

175. Well, most of us are still driving around in cars...

...Even we Prius owners. The CO₂ that we're emitting as individuals will reside in the atmosphere for the next 200 years.

So we are individually culpable.

[undergroundpanther]

177. Never drove a car

never owned one. Can't pass the eye test required to get a license.My optic nerves are messed up.Besides I couldn't afford a car if I had one.
So I walk most of the time.I may finagle rides with people already going, where I am but that is not often.
A nice person seeing me hauling 45 pounds of groceries up the road in mid winter gave me ride once.The bus driver who knows me,she pulled over told me to get in ,she waived the fee because it was 99 degrees heat index 105 and I was carrying groceries ,She was scared I was in danger of heatstroke.(I paid the fee anyway).It is very hard to live where I do without decent transportation.The bus system is inadequate at best out here.It is because towns are built around cars not people,everything is too far away from everything else.It created a "need" and now we are trapped by that fake"need because of town planners and other stupidities from the various boards out here assuming poor people do not exist here.

[Barrett808]

178. Bless your heart -- at least your carbon emissions are low! n/t

[enough already]

156. Denial is not just a river in Egypt.... n/t

[ohio2007]

100. This is a re run story from April.

only a few "experts" are willing to risk ridicule

IF

places like Greenland remain locked in ice come the dog days of august.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3286732&mesg_id=3286732



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3364819&mesg_id=3368386

they were predicting ten major hurricanes in 2006 due to global warming and again the hurricane alphabet would have "batted around".

but they batted
zero

for two years in a row....

North Pole Could Be Ice Free in 2008

By CATHERINE BRAHIC
April 27, 2008


Hope she does a follow up story by halloween ;)

jmo

[Barrett808]

108. The melt is real and widespread

Please visit Cryosphere Today to get the data:



http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere

[Barrett808]

109. This winger comment is priceless:

"for the first time in human history"---this assertion is staggering in its audacity. there were no measurements taken of polar ice millions of years ago. stop insulting your readers' intelligence.

http://blogs.independent.co.uk/openhouse/2008/06/have-your-say-9.html#comment-120278368

Since modern humans about 200,000 years old, there certainly were no observations taken "millions of years ago."

[galledgoblin]

115. I think the ice core samples also can prove thickness,

although I'm not sure that they take samples in the north...

[Hail Lama]

118. right on

Bravo, someone else noticed what I thought right away... That was such an exaggeration at the least and at the most a flat-out lie.

Dr. John Coleman, author of The Tavistock Institute of Human Relations: Shaping the Moral, Cultural, Political, and Economic Decline of the United States of America. He vigorously concurred that the 'Global Warming' blitz is a classic Tavistock propaganda campaign of the highest priority. Apparently, no effort or amount of money or 'expert scientific opinion' is being spared to bring us this 'inconvenient truth' so that we might all become convinced that the story line laid out by the propagandists is true, and therefore we must acquiesce to the new "regulations" or laws that will be set in place to "prevent the catastrophes that will surely ensue if we don't curb Global Warming"'. I've been hearing some of the most absurd and ludicrous statements over the radio from Global Warming 'experts' concerning the dire "consequences" that will follow within 50-100 years if we don't follow their recommendations to 'put the brakes on Global Warming'. It's an insult to the intelligence of every human being on this planet to accept this unbridled hokum from those who posture themselves as 'leading academic scientists' and authorities on this subject (read Rockefeller/Rothchild-purchased and bribed ' talking heads').

[Barrett808]

125. Welcome to DU, Hail Lama!

But I think you took my comment as approval. It seems to me that the poster thought humans had been around for millions of years.

And we commonly make scientific inferences about conditions millions of years ago; it's called "geology".

[Wednesdays]

149. Yeah, makes ya wonder how much money is being passed along

To these "alarmists"...all several thousand scientists. Yeah, someone with deep pockets and a motivation to make huge profits. Unlike the energy companies... :eyes:

[Barrett808]

150. Nice.

:D

[DailyGrind51]

116. Do we have to wonder why we had so much snow this winter and

so much rain now? All that water vapor has to go somewhere!

[The Stranger]

117. Maybe if the Nancy Traitor had let us impeach, the Feds could at least be BEGINNING to do something.

[Faygo Kid]

126. "Scientist" Rush weighs in. It's another salvo in the War on Christmas.

There's plenty more at his website, all of it the ravings of an uneducated lunatic (and forgive me for going there, but I just had to say what Butt Boy would say about this report). Sure enough, here's a colorful excerpt, and you better watch out, you better not cry. . .:

RUSH: ". . . You wait 'til your little six and seven-year-olds hear about this. "Mommy, mommy, mommy! Is Santa Claus gonna drown? Oh, mommy, you gotta stop driving your car. You know, we can't have Santa Claus and the elves there will drown." That's what's going to happen. I'm not kidding you, folks. This is how these people operate. What do you think they're showing these little crumb crunchers and these skulls full of mush the Algore movie for? It's to cause those parents to take action to get the kids off their backs. (interruption) Well, I know. There is one upside. If the ice melts at the North Pole, it'll just be easier to drill for oil. That is a good point. But it isn't going to melt. . . "

[Barrett808]

127. Good discussion on this story over at RealClimate:

I always find it interesting as to why some stories get traction in the mainstream media and why some don't. In online science discussions, the fate of this years summer sea ice has been the focus of a significant betting pool, a test of expert prediction skills, and a week-by-week (almost) running commentary. However, none of these efforts made it on to the Today program. Instead, a rather casual article in the Independent showed the latest thickness data and that quoted Mark Serreze as saying that the area around the North Pole had 50/50 odds of being completely ice free this summer, has taken off across the media. ...

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2008/06/north-pole-notes/langswitch_lang/tk

[gsplfnk]

132. No ice? I guess I'll have a beer instead.

Ever considered running the post through a spell check? It worries me when far flung hyperbole unsupported by proven scientific observation spews forth with such grammatically irrational exuberance.

[Wednesdays]

152. I know. Makes ya wanna rev up the ol' SUV

and crank up the air conditioner, just to show 'em how wrong they are, doesn't it?

[Megahurtz]

136. That fast it's completely gone?

We are so screwed. :(

[Megahurtz]

141. I guess the Polar Bears are fucked too.

:(

[and-justice-for-all]

151. People who think that we have no effect on our environment..

need smack over the head with a Science book.

they are also the result of home schooling.

[StarryNite]

158. It's really happening...

:cry:

[Wise Child]

161. This AP article is less alarmist and sensational than

the British Tabloid story.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080628/ap_on_sc/sci_north_pole_melt;

It certainly is of huge concern. People need to chill out, however. And so does the North Pole

[defendandprotect]

166. recco

[ileus]

169. BS....

[iamthebandfanman]

170. this should be on every station

and on almost 24/7.

i love how nobody cares.

i just watched them report on it on CNN and then directly when it was over smile and move on to some bullshit.

the world is melting and we are all going to die. in other news, jimmy turned 5. happy birthday jimmy!

[Jersey Ginny]

171. What about the glaciers in Greenland?

It is my understanding that if they melt then sea levels will really rise. If the ice will melt at the pole, does this include the Greenland glacier(s)?

[Barrett808]

172. Arctic ice includes all ice above the Arctic Circle, both on water and land

And yes, any ice on land that melts will cause the sea level to rise.

In addition, sea level will rise just because the oceans are warmer -- water expands as it heats.

[ohio2007]

179. So those are the accepted ground rules to the prediction of total meltdown.

"Arctic ice includes all ice above the Arctic Circle, both on water and land"

ok
the earth's tilt has shifted and the day light hours have now begun to decrease as of June 23.
This leaves July and August as the northern reaches go back into the deep freeze before September.

Now
is there any ongoing satellite imagery website to follow the receding ice weekly ?

[Barrett808]

186. Daily satellite imagery of Arctic ice available here:

Daily Arctic sea ice maps
http://igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/test/print.sh?fm=06&fd=29&fy=1980&sm=06&sd=29&sy=2008

Also, don't miss Cryosphere Today:
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere

Illuminating discussion here:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2008/06/north-pole-notes/langswitch_lang/zh

If this season is anything like last year's, we'll see the most dramatic melt occur in October.

[Barrett808]

187. Great daily satellite images here also:

Daily Updated AMSR-E Sea Ice Maps
http://iup.physik.uni-bremen.de:8084/amsr/amsre.html

And of course, by "great" I mean "terrifying":


http://iup.physik.uni-bremen.de:8084/amsr/SeaIceMinimum2007-contour50.png
2007 minimum sea ice extent, mean September 2002-2006, and September 1979-1983 sea ice extents.

[ChickMagic]

183. Rats!

Too late to rec. Oh well, you'd have gotten another
had I read it in time. x(