Police say teens beat homeless Ohio man to death

[mdmc]

Source: yahoo!

CLEVELAND - A group of teenagers beat a homeless man to death as passers-by slowed to watch the attack, some of which was caught on videotape, police said.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080627/ap_on_re_us/homeless_attack

---

:(

[atreides1]

1. Has it come to this?

Is this what we are becoming, walking past a man who is hit by a car, watching as teens beat a man to death?

[crim son]

2. Yes it has.

It's impossible not to think that our kids' form of video entertainment have had no effect. There was a time when the Romans enjoyed seeing a slave mauled by lions - those were rough times too.

I'm disgusted. It's no coincidence that there are no guns or violent video games or movies in this house, and my boys are both sweet and kind.

[YOY]

9. There is no coincidence that both were/are in mine and I didn't turn out evil.

Both in childhood and now that I have my own family.

Actually I'm a pretty nice guy in person. Your boys are sweet because you raised them right. I'm going to say you probably pay attention to them and are active in their education and personal lives.

There is no connection between video games and violent behavior. Studies have been done. They have all failed.

[Winterblues]

21. Could you provide a source for your claim

Studies i have seen have confirmed a direct link to violence on TV and in video games and violence among the youth that play those games and watch that TV

[YOY]

28. The APA of 2000?

Pretty much swiss cheese outside of the APA.

Take a long look at what the studies claim they find and pay attention to wording. They really don't find much.

[RoyGBiv]

91. Yeah, sure ...

You can find "studies" that "prove" Rock and Roll leads to teen pregnancy too.

There's all BS and have been determined so by real social scientists and psychologists who don't have a particular agenda (or book) to promote.

[crim son]

57. I raised them right, true.

Neither of them had violent tendencies or an interest in violence to begin with. My point is not that all video games are evil, but for kids at risk they are the worst kind of evil. Better I should blame bad/ignorant parenting. But I'm a gentle soul and believe with every fiber of my being that enjoying oneself by attempting murder, even virtual murder, is unhealthy. Period.

[YOY]

64. But there is no proof of it being unhealthy.

That is what I am saying. Those APA studies from 2000 has been ripped to shreds. Read them closely. They are worded very very weasely.

[bvar22]

106. Did you allow them to participate in violent sports?

...or watch violent cartoons.....or old violent cowboy movies?

Were they ever allowed to play Cowboys & Indians or Cops & Robbers?

[crim son]

59. All I did was google study, violent video games, teens

and a page of studies disputing your claim appeared. One cites "unusual brain activity" when playing violent games.

You turned out fine and I am happy. But it's like... child molestation. Lots of kids are molested and don't grow up to molest themselves but as we know, some do. Some people are suceptible, suggestible or exposed to a stimulus for long enough or in such a way that it has a terrible adverse affect.

Again, this could well be about parenting but geez, what parent...? Aw, forget it.

[JerseygirlCT]

51. I'd like to hope that helps

It's the same situation in my house. But I think the reason the kids are as they are is not just about video games,etc. Kids learn from modeling the adults in their lives. Your boys are probably sweet because sweet is what they learned at home.

[crim son]

58. I responded to your point above, to YOY.

I have had enough experience watching little boys grow up to doubt the validity of a study claiming that killing as a game does not alter a child's personality or behavior. That's why I don't have that crap in my house - because I know kids who do. But I don't have Disney films in the house either so perhaps I'm nuts. :D

[JerseygirlCT]

60. No, they're just plain offensive from an artistic

point of view, anyway!

I don't like guns, and I don't think violence is entertaining - especially for kids. It's always hit me in a visceral way - the idea that children should be entertained by hurting people... that's awful to me.

[YOY]

62. You obviously don't play.

The beauty of some "violent" games is not in the blood or the like but in the story and atmosphere.

[JerseygirlCT]

65. So why the violence?

And, better question, why for kids?

I don't care how adults choose to entertain themselves, but I do not think children should be taught that violence is entertainment.

[YOY]

66. Ask the parents for the better question.

I'm not letting my daughter play GTA 4 or Bioshock or the like. I'm also not letting her watch porno or violent movies. I don't think it would destroy her little mind, but I really don't feel like explaining just why that man is shooting at the comically inept police officer.

They're not ALL violent games you are aware...but it's pretty hard to make a game with spooky/scary/impending doom atmosphere when the crazy genetic mutant coming around the corner wants to play patty cake with you instead of bashing in your head with a lead pipe.

You should try one.

[JerseygirlCT]

67. What about puzzle solving, problem solving...

is blood and guts necessary for a game to be exciting?

[YOY]

68. That's another genre. Those are fun too.

But diversity is the spice of life.

We play one game to build a city.
Another to solve a puzzle.
A Third to win World War II using tactics to stump Rommel.
A fourth to blow some stuff up and take off some mutants heads...
A fifth to play a simulated musical instrument in rythum to hit tunes.

You should try all of those.

They're all fun. The violent ones too and they do not make you a worse person or more accepting of real world violence as I will personally testify.

[YOY]

61. Well we agree on the latter being "crap"

Barbie stays away from my daughter too boot. :shrug:

I really think you need to try the games yourself before swearing them off as "crap". Honestly, I am a grown, educated, functional adult who still loves to slaughter his way through the Saracen Armies in Medieval Total War II. I like to think that I turned out just fine.

Ever considered how playing full contact sports affects young minds?

[jimshoes]

3. This is beyond fucked up

however the Mayor and the police have vowed to catch these teens and put them away.

[bean fidhleir]

4. One of the problems is that *any* single adult would have had an impossible time

trying to oppose several adrenalin-junkie teen males. The likely result would have been the intervenor getting beaten to death, too.

On the other hand, depending on the exact situation, a capable adult with a firearm could quite possibly have saved the life of the victim, perhaps at the expense of one or more of the attackers.

But we have been well trained in helpless passivity. It's one of the reasons we get taken to the cleaners by the psychopaths-in-office so often and so contemptuously. We're taught to avoid involvement, to wait for Authority to come and save us, to accept with ritualized grumbling whatever the exploiters do to us, ...to be human sheep, in effect: herded, penned, and shorn and shorn endlessly.

Will we ever choose to become human instead, do you think?

[Apollo11]

90. There's a scene in Stanley Kubrick's "A Clockwork Orange" (1971)

The lead character (Alex) and his gang are show to physically assault a tramp. The movie was very controversial, rated X in the USA, banned in Great Britain and condemned by the Catholic Church.

[JeanGrey]

105. That was my first thought. Out of all the passersby and people

who slowed down in cars, nobody had a gun and stopped these kids? Sad.

[bdamomma]

5. we have lost our souls

[ellie]

6. We really have

I visit a gossip site called Crazy Days and Nights and yesterday, a photo of celebrity Mario Lopez and his pals was posted. They were posing next to a homeless man, who had his head bowed down in utter despair, a la Abu Ghraib with their hands in fake gang symbols like those brave American soldiers did.

Here is the website: http://www.crazydaysandnights.net/ You have to scroll down a bit to find the photo. It may be on the next page by now.

Civilization is on the decline. Between the cruelty to our fellow humans to helpless animals, it is over. America, especially, is over. There is no hope to save ourselves or our planet.

[bdamomma]

7. never surrender, and never give up

easy to say but we must do it.

[BigDaddy44]

12. WRONG

WE have not lost our souls. A few warped individuals have lost theirs. Please don't lump me in with this group.

And by the way, evil has existed since the dawn of time. You think this sort of thing didn't happen 100 years ago?

[Xenotime]

8. Sounds like these video games they play.

Kids today are having a harder and harder time telling the difference between games and reality.

[YOY]

10. What video games are those?

There is no connection between violent video games and criminal behavior. Studies have been done. They have all failed to prove what you are insinuating.

If the reality line was so easily crossed in such a way the Army recuiters would be inundatd with new recruits. Please stop insinuating things that have been proven false.

[Apollo11]

13. Even if no connection has yet been proven does not mean "there is no connection"

Just like a murder suspect is not necessarily "innocent" just because he or she has not yet been proven "guilty".

I know why a suspect should be "presumed innocent", but that doesn't mean that every suspect actually IS innocent.

As someone who has a college degree in psychology, it seems obvious to me that there IS a connection between inputs and outputs, in terms of what we put into our minds (experiences, family influence, peer influence, school, books, movies, TV, internet, radio, music AND interactive video games), and what comes out of our minds in terms of our own behavior.

A significant number (but not all) perpetrators of physical and sexual abuse were themselves victims of abuse.

Of course you cannot say that this specific incident was directly caused by a particular movie or videogame.

Culture reflects society and vice-versa. If a group of young males is immersed in a culture that glorifies violence - thru movies, video games, rock lyrics or whatever, then in certain cases it might push them towards behaving in a more violent way.

It's a safe bet that the most disturbed kids are the ones who spend the most time playing the most violent games. Maybe they were already inclined towards violence before. But something tells me that extremely violent games in which you "win" by brutally killing your "opponent" are not likely to make a positive contribution towards creating a less violent society.

[YOY]

16. A lot of folks have tried with a lot of money to prove it.

And the link is not there. Study-after-study they found nothing. The closest thing they came is an Ohio State study that showed that there is a connection to "thinking aggressive thoughts", watching contact sports will do the same thing but never mind that. They really proved nothing.

There is no "suspect" situation. The case is over. The verdict is in. It's "not guilty."

Many victims of sexual predators hate the "vampire" insinuation. That, I really hate to say, has nothing to do with this situation.

It's not a safe bet at all actually regarding the "disturbed kids". There really is no connection. I am sorry to disappoint. Eric and Dylan had a lot more screwed up things in their lives than playing an 5 year old video game about shooting demons and zombies when they shot up their school and killed innocent people before taking their own lives.

The Japanese and Europeans play those same games. I am sure disturbed kids play them there too as well as there are some that don't play them. The violence is not happening over there. It's just not happening. Find another "culture culprit", because this has nothing to do with it. Incidentally the prosecuting lawyer has been disbarred: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Thompson_(attorney)#Disbarment_proceedings.

So are you sure these thugs played video games? It's not just the urban ghetto lack of economic hope that is Cleveland creating a dog-on-dog spirit of vindictiveness? Perhaps we really should take a deeper look at the environment and less at something we really don't know before making accusations. I'm from Cleveland. It ain't pretty...

The "violence connection" is one of those thing that the DLCers like to play off to soccer moms and NASCAR dads. It has also costed them a strong portion of the youth vote who know that there is none. The kids do not avoid an angry fellow teen because he is "on the video games".

[Occulus]

30. 'Kay then. Let's play a game of our own.

Here's my list of installed games (it is incumbent upon YOU to check these out and verify their level of violence; rank them from one to ten):

Bioshock (Tells a heck of a story, but the DRM sucks real bad)
Black and White 2
Black and White 2: Battle of the Gods
Civilization 4
Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars
Command & Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath
Crysis
Doom 3
Dungeon Keeper 2
Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion (Best Eff Pee Ess Are Pee Gee EVER)
Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion: Knights of the Nine
Elder Scrolls 4: Shivering Isles
Galactic Civilizations 2 (Most expansive game of its kind on the shelf)
Half Life 2
Half Life 2: Episode 1
Half Life 2: Episode 2
Homeworld 2
Lords of the Realm 3
Myst
Myst 2: Riven
Myst 3: Exile
Myst 4: Uru
Myst 5: Revelation
Myst 6: End of Ages
Portal (The closest I've ever seen to a perfect game)
Prey
Roller Coaster Tycoon 3
SimCity 4
SimCity Societies
Sins of a Solar Empire
Spore: Creature Creator (Most literally creative game ever made)
Team Fortress 2
The Movies
Unreal Tournament 3

Given all that, how violent am I likely to be? Keep in mind, some of these games or their predecessors existed back in my teens and early twenties.

Take your time...

[YOY]

32. THanks KGF. I felt like I was really waging war against the tides here.

As always spot on bro!

[Occulus]

34. I doubt the person you're responding to upthread has ever played any of them

Maybe Myst. I'm sure they've heard of SimCity as well.

Crysis? UT3? Oblivion? Probably not so much....

[YOY]

36. They really should try before they condemn them

Jesus, I'm a seven language speaking former Peace Corps volunteer who is the nicest guy you'd ever meet in person, a MBA from a great school with a strong focus in project management and working on great career, a proud/active father and loving husband, AND an avid lifelong gamer...since fricking Pong. You know me man, I've played just about everything by now...GTA has some appeal and it's not just the violence...the tongue in cheek humor is viscious.


They have not destroyed my life, made me more violent, or worked as some form of "addiction". Thinking about FReeps makes me violent but that's besides the point...

I wonder if we started talking about the possible political overshadowing in Bioshock and the connection to the complete failure of the ultralibertarian mentality that they might see that there is a little more here than bleeps, bloops, and "killing hookers". Hookers...makes me want to twiddle my joystick...DAMN YOU BENCHLEY!!!

[Apollo11]

43. I have to ask - where d'you find the time to play all those video games and post here on DU?

I know when I was growing up, my dad had no time for playing video games (although they were very primitive in those days). And he hardly speaks any foreign languages at all!

"Jesus, I'm a seven language speaking former Peace Corps volunteer who is the nicest guy you'd ever meet in person, a MBA from a great school with a strong focus in project management and working on great career, a proud/active father and loving husband, AND an avid lifelong gamer... "

[YOY]

44. Now you're just attacking me as a person.

What I wrote about myself is the honest truth. Spare me your condemnations. That is who I am. I find time to do what I want and what I must. That is my life.

Did your dad watch sports? I don't.

I also cook. I clean. I do home maintanence. I watch movies. I go for walks with my family. There's alot to do outside of the 6 hours I am not sleeping at night.

[Apollo11]

49. You call that an "attack"?

I wouldn't have expected you to be one of those overly sensitive types.

Just goes to show one should never assume ...

[YOY]

53. Yes I do.

n/t

[NuttyFluffers]

69. DU is an all consuming hobby? news to me...

outside of an unusually intense work or school schedule i almost always have time for myself at some point in the week. sometimes i choose to spend it with DU, sometimes i spend it with video games. often i am able to accomplish both during a week. it is not hard.

[YOY]

71. I post a lot as my workload is sprint then stop, sprint then stop, sprint then stop...

I also type fast. Maybe I'm getting a bad rep?

[NuttyFluffers]

86. typing fast must've come from Typing of the Dead

zombie-killing typing tutor. useless skills from games that rot the brain, don'tcha know. evil, evil i tell you!

[YOY]

94. I know it but I never played it.

It sounded like quirky fun though.

[tchunter]

55. crysis? you must have a hell of a rig to play that

that game looks absolutely astounding

[YOY]

63. On DirX10 you do

Mine cries tears for baby Jebus on DirX9.

[Occulus]

70. You really need an SLI rig for Crysis

Hopefully, I'll do that by the end of the year. The card I'm using- NV GeForce 8500 GT- has 512M onboard and has hardware support for SM 4.0 and DX10, so with two of those and a dual core CPU, I should be able to enjoy the game in all its glory.

Crysis came out way too soon, IMO. Nobody has what it needs!

Bioshock, OTOH, runs real well (Half-Life 2 runs like melted butter- 60fps most of the time!), and if anyone in this, ah, interesting subthread wants a good place to start with a shooter, Bioshock or Half-Life 2 are both excellent choices.

[tchunter]

92. DU gamer group?

just kidding, but for FPS i'm still playing CoD4, but i'm not that good, its really just people running around in khaki's to me. I'm playing World of Warcraft now, its uber-geeky but incredibly fun and doesn't require me to have a crysis capable CPU. i've been meaning to pick up bioshock, the story seems really cool with the underwater dystopia. People don't give credit to video games for their ability to tell stories and have meaningful messages.

[YOY]

93. You may be kidding but several of the posters here including myself are members of the DU Gamers.

If you donate there is are several smaller forums for special interests and hobbies. Even few of the mods join us on occasion too.

I really liked COD 4 but it was too goddamn short. It really is visciously fast I must say though.

You will find several huge Bioshock fans here myself included. The game was done by quality folks and really does have a nice little storyline with a bit of depth to it.

[Sheets of Easter]

74. I just KNOW you're the type that deletes your Sims' swimming pool ladders.

:P

[YOY]

76. Lock them in a closed room by themselves and seal up the walls

Crying...sleeping in their own filth...then shuffling off their mortal coil...bwahaha!

[Sheets of Easter]

77. Or my favorite, the Laganaphyllis Simnovorii

[YOY]

89. Who says playing the Sims is good clean fun?

n/t

[apnu]

83. Dang you have some oldies and goodies in there.

Do you honestly still play Myst? not much replay ability in that one. DK2, never thought I'd run into anybody who still has that installed. Wow, talk about a blast from the past, where is Star Craft: Brood War BTW?

Double Plus Good on the Oblivion. Lots of fun. Though I'm enjoying a bit of Hellgate:London right now.

[mdmc]

96. I've played CIV 4

But these kids probably thought that they were doing community service.

[kuratowa]

99. Roller Coaster Tycoon 3?

You're a veritable Rambo ;)

[justaregularperson]

18. Not going to let you get away with asserting what cannot be proven negative either

It is extremely difficult to prove such a link, as there are so many factors and the influence of violence in media and games is subtle and might take years to show up. But, as someone who loves a good game, I will not buy a game like Grand theft auto. I have watched it being played and there is no way you will convince me it does not have a subtle effect on a young mind. It is extremely sick, violent, and twisted.

[YOY]

24. GTA 1 through 4 are not for young minds but that is besides the point.

The studies have been done. A lot of money has been thrown at this. There is no connection. I don't think this is because "big video game" is hiding the evidence. There just is none. Sane people (kids too!) can distinguish between reality and fantasy.

There are ratings systems. They are enforced. There is little more that can and should be done constitutionally as video games are not the problem.

[justaregularperson]

26. I agree it should not be the center of policy to reduce violence

But in a violent society I believe it contributes. Education is a very large factor in how people react to pressure in a situation that could turn violent. And these games are part of the things that have an "educational" influence.

[YOY]

27. I disagree wholeheartedly about the contribution.

Education and video games are two seperate things.

Our urgent need to improve our educational system as lack of education and violent behavior are priority. I agree about that one completely. The studies are there. There is correlation between violent behavior/crime and lack of (quality) education.

There just isn't a connection between violent video games and violent crime/behavior.

[Apollo11]

39. If there is ZERO impact - why even have a ratings system at all?

If a game is harmless for an 18 year-old man - why would the same game be somehow dangerous for a boy of 15 or 13 or 11 or 9 years of age?

I thought you were trying to make the case that video games cannot influence human behavior?

[YOY]

41. Ask the MPA. But their system is all out of whack IMHO.

A matter of subject material.

Should and 8-year-old watch porno? Should a 10-year-old watch "Hostel"? What is the impact of that on those kids? What about if a parent explains things to them? Does the impact change?

Stop being a jerk about it. You know why there is a rating system. So parents don't get their drawers in a knot essentially and play the conservative "think of the children" line.

[Apollo11]

46. The reason there is a ratings system

is because some (not all) young people might be negatively influenced if they would spend all their spare time engaged in interactive videogames that are primarily based on simulating brutal acts of violence.

Just like they could potentially be negatively influenced by violent books, comic books, movies, rock lyrics, etc.

But I don't accept that on your 16th or 18th birthday you all of a sudden become 100% immune from cultural influences and audiovisual inputs. Just look at some of the folks who have been brainwashed by FOX News ...

[YOY]

52. Interesting that there never has been a study shoing any of those "potential negatives"

actually are real negatives.

People watch FOX news because it tells them what they want to hear. That there is nothing wrong with being a greedy shallow and otherwise a twit.

[justaregularperson]

19. Study - VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES CAN INCREASE AGGRESSION

Just a short search and found this. More study may be needed but I don't think you can assert that they do not have an effect.

http://www.apa.org/releases/videogames.html

[YOY]

25. Yes, that one.

Read it carefully.

It proves nothing.

It's been ripped apart 10 ways til Sunday outside of the APA.

[Occulus]

38. Is it acceptable for a book, or set of books, to shape one's worldview?

[Apollo11]

48. A lot of folks seem to pay a lot of attention to The Bible

I don't mind folks reading it, but I wish they would recognize it as a work of fiction.

[JNelson6563]

54. And that's a veritable manual on violence

The only difference is most violence in the bible is sanctioned by bible-god.

Julie

[Divine Discontent]

100. then you shouldn't mind people recognizing it as a work of faith, then... eom

[Apollo11]

40. Thanks for posting this link

Google rocks! B-)

[YOY]

42. You really aren't paying attention to KGF or I are you?

Sounds like your opinion is set in stone and not going to change.

[Apollo11]

47. It's like in that violent movie: Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines

When Arnie says "Talk to the hand!" ;-)

[YOY]

98. So in essence you're just being contrary?

n.t.

[LanternWaste]

29. I don't think the poster said there was a correlation

I don't think the poster said there was a correlation, only that the incident sounded much like a scenario from some of the... rougher games on the market. And if that was the poster's point, I'd have to agree.

I was at a co-worker's house some time back and his son was playing a game in which the avatar was awarded points for paying for the "services" of prostitutes and killing police. Doesn't seem like much of a stretch to me to extrapolate that there are most likely games on the market in which one gets awarded for killing the homeless... :shrugging:

[YOY]

31. Yes but now you're thinking that the gamer cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality

Really takes logic in the wrong direction.

How old was the son? Under 12 is too young for GTA4. Sounds like GTA3 or 4.

[LanternWaste]

33. Son was eight or nine.

Son was eight or nine. Don't know the name of the game-- can't really bring myself to care as much as I'd like either; garbage in, garbage out...


Also, didn't the poster write that it seems kids are having a more and more difficult time differentiating between reality and games...? Which is many degrees off from saying "kids cannot differentiate..."

"I'm having a harder and harder time waking up for work" is much different than
"I'm not waking up for work"

[YOY]

35. Too young to play it. Sorry to rip on your friend but they should monitor better.

My daughter doesn't get everything she cries about. Just parenting I guess and I can't critique someone I don't know.

The differentiation assumes that it is getting worse when it is not. Unless suffering from psychosis, differentiating fantasy from reality is not difficult no matter the media as long as the person in question is aware they are watching a movie/playing a game/reading a book/etc...

[LanternWaste]

37. Some people may think that, others may not...

"Too young to play it"

Some people may think that, others may not-- I don't presume to have absolute knowledge of these games as I've consciously avoided the trendy "shoot the bad guys (or good guys-- your mileage may differ) games as being no more than a waste of time for me.

Others may get quite a bit out of it-- as I've said, I simply don't presume to know what's appropriate for kids in the world of entertainment other than for my own family.

[NuttyFluffers]

72. :) you shouldn't look at adult Japanese games then...

or modern American tabletop RPGs. they'll make your toes curl. there's definitely an adult market out there. but there's also an adult market for movies, books, and music as well. it just involves media literacy -- which seems to be sadly lacking on this board. you have to be actively engaged to know what's on the market to make a responsible purchase for your family. nothing all that scary, just a little familiarity and conscious buying habits.

you would probably be quite disturbed with what i am familiar in the gaming world. but really, it's not all that bad; it's just play. people are pretty good about understanding fantasy v. reality. it's when people get serious and were prone to losing it mentally anyway that it becomes a problem -- but that's more of an issue of lack of universal mental health care in the USA.

[fascisthunter]

14. I Think That May Be True for Some

but it's not as simple as blaming it on just a game. Parents, abuse, poverty.....? There is more to it than just that.

[Ignis]

45. Are you sure it's not that damn Rock & Roll music? (nt)

:eyes:

[apnu]

82. No its Jazz dammit! Jazz is driving every body crazy!!! and Refer too! Yeah REEFER!!! (nt)

[Ignis]

85. Damn kids, get off my lawn! And take that Charleston dancin' with you!

:rofl:

[Sheets of Easter]

84. There is NOTHING in the article claiming such an assertion.

[Trillo]

11. Terrible.

I wonder what the parents think of homeless folks. For that matter, I wonder what the culture in their schools taught of the homeless.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

15. You expect such things from psychos. I'm more shocked about the drivers.

Why didn't any red-blooded 2nd-Amendment-worshipping oh-so-red-white-and-blue American exercise his Right to Keep and Bear Arms to at least fire a warning shot so the assailants would scram?

[Wcross]

17. Maybe the only people around were people like you who fear guns?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

20. I'm not a "OMG we have to get rid of all guns" type.

I just don't worship them, which for some people is pansy-damn-commie-librul enough.

[Wcross]

22. I didn't know there was a "Gun church", is that sort of like the Baptists?

Did you know the Baptist church has banned sex while standing? It is too much like dancing:)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

23. Oooo yes there is.

Praise the Lawd!

[llmart]

75. Good one!

[asthmaticeog]

103. Red-blooded 2nd-Amendment-worshipping oh-so-red-white-and-blue Americans

don't go to that part of Cleveland. And if they're just driving through, they don't care what happens to homeless people, anyway.

[JerseygirlCT]

50. Oh my goodness

What's happened to those teens to turn them into people capable of this?

And what's happened to all those on=lookers?

It's so sad. And so pervasive in our society now.

[samsingh]

56. i believe in executions in this case

[mzmolly]

73. It appears the teens wanted his "music player and headphones".

Horrible story.

[Sheets of Easter]

78. Cleveland proper is in a very bad way these days

unemployment, foreclosures, and cuts in police funding are killing us. It's sad and infuriating.

[apnu]

80. That has more to do with the motivations than video games as many others here have suggested (nt)

[Sheets of Easter]

81. We have a winner.

There isn't a single mention of video games in the article. It looks like a conclusion someone jumped to.

It's blight, plain and simple.

[YOY]

88. That's EXACTLY what I've been trying to say but some people like to get their drawers in a wad over!

stuff they have no experience with.

Thank you.

[asthmaticeog]

101. Bingo. I know that part of Cleveland. I guarantee those kids don't have a friggin' Wii.

15 years ago, I used to live a straight shot up E. 72nd Street from where this all went down. It's been pretty much completely bombed out around there since the '70s, at least. Lots of desperation, no money, nothing to do.

[apnu]

79. Video Games don't enter into it... our culture is the problem.

America's culture of violence, apathy, alienation, over stimulation and instant gratification are to blame here. Our culture is sick, people walking buy while a bunch of kids beat a man to death? Says everything you want to know about what's wrong in America.

Video games aren't to blame, if anything they reflect what we desire as a people. Saying games have something to do with this is a red herring.

[superconnected]

87. A group, and they aren't caught yet? WTF.

I hope someone's conscience finally kicks in and they step forward and turn the rest in.

Usually when stuff happens like this the parents end up shocked that their child is a murderer so I'll suspend judgement on their upbringing.

[JVS]

95. Execute them

[Bush_MUST_Go]

97. If negative 'art forms' don't affect how people think & behave.....

then 'positive' art forms can have no effect either.

The whole idea of becoming more 'cultured' is hogwash.

Of course, what we experience impacts our lives.... some more than others. But the type of entertainment we absorb is only one small part of what makes us tick.

And I DO think kids are impacted by the YouTube/Jackass mentality & wanting to impress their peers with their own outrageous behaviors caught on tape.

---



This is such a heinous crime. Sad.

[asthmaticeog]

102. See my post above - these kids don't have video games or computers.

GTA and YouTube aren't part of their lives. That's one of the most dirt poor sections of one of North America's most dirt poor cities. Nothing but brownfield there for as long as I can remember. They *might* have cable, but blaming this on "Jackass" is the height of naivete. The social pathologies of poverty are at work here, not those of affluence.

[Vidar]

104. There are a few cases, where I think the death penalty is entirely justified. This is one of them.