America was itself to blame for the events of September 11

[banana republican]

<snip>
The report, which the BBC claimed was based on a secret FBI document, numbered 199I WF213589 and emanating out of the FBI’s Washington field office, alleged that the cynicism of the American establishment and "connections between the CIA and Saudi Arabia and the Bush men and bin Ladens" may have been the real cause of the deaths of thousands in the World Trade Centre attacks.
<snip>


http://www1.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/articleshow?art_id=1030259305

[Barrett808]

1. Great stuff, but not LBN

This story is dated November 7, 2001.

[BlueEyedSon]

2. kick

[leftynyc]

3. Sorry - I don't buy that

9/11 was the fault of 19 fanatics who murdered 3000 civilians. There are simply no excuses.

[Whoa_Nelly]

4. Yet, investigations are revealing,

or trying to reveal the truth, that the tragic events of Sept. 11 could have been averted if those in the know had acted. I still hold that it was LIHOP as a precursor to justifying invading Iraq.

[leftynyc]

6. Whether * and Co LIHOP is not the point

I don't care how misguided our foreign policy is, murdering civilians is not an acceptable response. I mean, what possible good could have come of it? And I'm a firm believer in "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem".

[htuttle]

12. Yes it is the damned point

We didn't elect bin Laden. Well, we didn't elect Bush either, but that's beside the point here. His administration was supposed to show at least due diligence in following up national security issues, and they did not. In fact, they pulled off the FBI coverage of the bin Ladens after they got into office.

Nobody is saying the hijackers weren't responsible. The point is, the Bush administration willingly opened up our country to vulnerability, because of their 'crony' relationship to the bin Laden family.

We have no control over bin Laden or Al Queda. We DO (or we SHOULD) have control over Bush. He's our employee.

THAT is the damned point.

[leftynyc]

17. I have no beef with your contention that

* dropped the ball. His relationship to the Bin Ladens and the Saudi Royal family is a disgrace. But America is more than the President. And those animals murdered civilians.

[lightbulb]

13. 19 Fanatics, several of which have turned up

still alive and quite intact. There were a lot more than 19 fanatics involved in this, and many of them were not Arab or Muslim. The fact that the event was allowed to happen as it did has more to do with a domestically hatched political agenda than the revenge fantasies of middle-eastern religious extremists.

[Red State Rebel]

5. You Are Correct - I refuse to blame America!

[Terran]

9. Then...

you are also refusing to acknowledge some of the facts of the situation. Which is what got us into this situation in the first place.

[htuttle]

7. Was there an 'excuse' for the Bush Administration...

...to pull the FBI off of investigating the bin Laden's before 9/11?

What is their excuse for that, after being warned about Al Queda by several members of the outgoing Clinton administration?

I'd love to hear your answer, 'leftynyc'...Please explain.

[leftynyc]

11. I'm the last person to defend *'s actions

on any issue...I detest the man. That doesn't change the fact that murdering civilians is always wrong. Do you really think that the 3000 deserved to die because * is an asshole?

I happen to agree that * ignored all the info the Clinton people left behind about Al Queda and * has still done nothing to punish the real supporters of terrorism (his buddies, the Saudi's).

[htuttle]

15. I'll try this one last time...

NOBODY IS FUCKING SAYING THAT MURDERING CIVILIANS IS NOT WRONG!!!!! NOBODY IS SAYING THAT THEY DESERVED IT!!!!

If you persist in trying to characterize this issue in that light, I'm very likely to assume you are trying an old disruption tactic again, and I'll pop an alert on your ass.

Read the damn article. Tell me where it says that the hijackers weren't murderous bastards, or that their actions weren't wrong. Only Rush Limbaugh would respond to this issue by characterizing it as 'apologizing for the hijackers.'

[Terran]

8. And yet...

it's rather hard to deny that things might have been very different if the USA hadn't spent the last half century screwing over the Islamic nations in the Middle East agains and again. You do know, don't you, that we overthrew a democratically elected regime in Iran in the early 1950's and installed the Shah? It's that sort of thing that has so many people pissed off at us.

I'm not denying the 19 were directly responsible for their actions. But there's cause and effect at work here too...

[htuttle]

10. That's not really even what the article is about

The article is suggesting that the US is 'responsible', because the Bush administration didn't want their buddies the bin Laden family to be investigated by the FBI.

They pulled all the FBI coverage off of them after they came into office, even though the Clinton administration's national security team told them that their number one security issue was bin Laden and Al Queda.

THAT is the point I'd like to see addressed by all those full of indignation about 'placing blame' on anyone but hijackers. What about the Bushes? Aren't they to blame as well?

[leftynyc]

14. Then they should have gone after *.

But they didn't...they killed 3000 of my neighbors instead.

I want to make it very clear that I do not condone assasination...all I'm saying is that if they were pissed at *, that's where they should have directed their anger. They pulled the tiger by the tail and shouldn't be surprised they got bit (I'm speaking of the Al Queda)

[htuttle]

16. What the hell are you talking about?

Either you simply don't comprehend the article, or you are purposely trying to mischaracterize it.

At this point, I am inclined to believe the latter.

[Moderator]

18. Locking--LBN rules

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=87249
6. When posting articles, please use the published title of the article as the title of the discussion thread.

Thank you
DU Moderator