MATRIX Not for Utah

[TeeYiYi]

MATRIX Not for Utah
Jan. 30, 2004

Not on her watch. Governor Olene Walker says Utah will not "enter the Matrix."

Walker pulled Utah from The Multistate Anti-Terrorism Information Exchange.

The MATRIX is a federal program that collects information on residents... like driver license and criminal history.

It then links states' databases for criminal investigation.

8 states, including Utah, had agreed to participate. The program quietly started under former Governor, Mike Leavitt.

More: http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?nid=39&sid=72691

http://www.4utah.com/local_news/local_headlines/story.aspx?content_id=46C12906-BCC3-4AB9-96DA-BD01415BA968

TYY

[central scrutinizer]

1. Read Jon Krakauer's new book

Under the Banner of Heaven, and you will know why. There are thousands of openly law-breaking fundamentalists in Utah - heavily armed polygamists who believe in blood atonement. Many of them refuse to submit to secular law and have no driver's licenses, marriage licenses, building licenses, etc. and are a powerful voting bloc.

[TeeYiYi]

2. Why it's not for Utah? . . .

That's a good theory but I don't know it that's the reason it was squashed. This thing has secretly been in the works for a couple of years under ex Governor Mike Leavitt's watch. Now that he's busy with his new *shrub appointed duties with the EPA, the new Governor, Olene Walker, put a stop to it. She has been his Lieutenant Governor for 3 years and was not privy to information regarding the MATRIX and its ramifications. The second she found out about it she put a halt to it. Thank gawd. This woman is a republican but she seems to have her motives in the right place. Her 'State of the State' speech was applauded by democrats. I doubt she'll be allowed to serve a second term. Too bad. She's got a good heart.

TYY

[KansDem]

3. Man, what a scary couple!!!

On Pioneer Day afternoon, Dan and Ron Lafferty pushed their way into the home of 24-year-old Brenda Wright Lafferty while her husband, Allen Lafferty, was away. As she pleaded for her daughter's life, the two men beat her and throttled her with a vacuum cord. Dan then stepped into the bedroom and, as the girl cried out for her mother, slashed the throat of Brenda's 15-month-old daughter, Erica. That done, he used the same knife to finish off Brenda.

In April, King brought Lafferty before a class on religious-based
homicides at a law enforcement conference in Phoenix. When one angry
sheriff's deputy confronted the convicted murderer about his lack of
remorse, Lafferty calmly replied, "With all due respect, if God asked me to, I'd kill you right now."
http://www.polygamyinfo.com/plygmedia%2000%2086trib.htm

These two bothers figure prominently in Krakauer's book. And we in America wonder at the "blood lust" of Mideast religious fundamentalists and fanatics? I'm definitely putting this title on my "must read" list. Perhaps ALL Americans should read this book, or others like it. We may not act so indignantly the next time we hear of a suicide bombing in the Mideast.

[Hamlette]

4. polygamists??????????????

this has NOTHING to do with polygamists!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sheesh. People read ONE book about SOME MEMBERS of a minority group in Utah and assume everyone who lives here agrees with/supports/protects the Lafferty brothers! Sorry to flame but this is so uneducated. And the statement: "Thousands of openly law-breaking fundamentalists in Utah - heavily armed polygamists who believe in blood atonement" makes it sound like thousands are violent. Newsflash: all Mormons believe in blood atonement. Many households in Utah are what I would consider "heavily armed" AND I have been known to break laws (drugs, in my youth and we won't talk about how fast I drive.) Get a grip! This state, let alone Mormons, let alone the majority of polygamists, are not a bunch of blood thirsty rampaging lunitics.

I'm a third generation godless commie pinko Utahan. I've never voted for a Republican in my life. Olene Walker could change all that. She is a decent, bright, thoughtful public servant who honestly cares more about doing what is right for the people of Utah than in doing what is right for her party or herself or her business or her self interests. I have known her personally and professionally for 20 years. She did this because it IS an invasion of privacy. I don't want the feds to have all that info about me on its data base. BLESS HER HEART! (You should also know, before you go off trying to compare her to the likes of the Lafferty brothers, that the FIRST thing she did when she became governor was put a stop to dumping nuclear waste in Utah which every Utah representative and Senator supported in Washington!!!! She is independent, a huge backer of education and she would be a democrat in any other state of the union.)

She keeps doing stuff like protecting my enviroment, my privacy and educating the masses and she may be the first (maybe the last) Republican I vote for.

[TeeYiYi]

5. I wish she would run for Governor . . .

. . . I'd vote for her. Sadly, I'm afraid that's not what the brethren had in mind.

TYY

On Edit: grammar

[central scrutinizer]

6. mea culpa

I was not only citing Krakauer's book, but also the recent doings in Colorado City. He does cite a couple of instances where politicians tried to apply the law and suffered at the polls - the governor of Arizona in the 1950's and Leavitt's own brother who was a DA. I did not intend to impugn Utahans in general, but the people in Colorado City and other enclaves seem to openly defy secular authority with impunity.

[TeeYiYi]

7. I think you may actually be onto something . . .

In any other state, the conservatives would be applauding the MATRIX big brother database. In this situation, it has been overwhelmingly the conservatives who are afraid of it. That's a switch.

TYY

[TeeYiYi]

8. Dossier program alarms Utahns . . .

Dossier program alarms Utahns

By Jerry D. Spangler, Amy Joi Bryson and Bob Bernick Jr.
Deseret Morning News

It sounds like a sci-fi thriller: a super computer program that gathers dossiers on every single man, woman and child — everything from birth and marriage and divorce history to hunting licenses and car license plates. Even every address you have lived at down to the color of your hair.

It sounds surreal, but former Gov. Mike Leavitt signed Utah's 2.4 million residents up for a pilot program — ironically called MATRIX — that does just that. And he never bothered to reveal details of the program to Utah citizens or to state lawmakers who, upon learning of the program on Capitol Hill this week, are now worried the state could be involved in a program that jeopardizes basic civil liberties.

<snip>

A bigger concern is that Big Brother could be watching every move, every purchase, every wrong turn.

"Do I want the government compiling all these records on me through a super database to come up with a dossier?" queried one legislative staffer who should have known about MATRIX but didn't. "Not only no, but hell no."

More: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,590039368,00.html

TYY

[Hamlette]

9. agreed. Polygamists are complete nut cases.

But they are less than 1% of the population and the vast majority of polygamists do not murder people. One could say because Ted Bundy was a Utahan and a law student all law students in Utah are serial murderers. Uh. Having been a law student in Utah (at the same time and at the same law school as Bundy) I can tell you, they are not although I am certain that a farily large percentage of them were not law abiding. (It's the drug thing again. I am of a certain generation.)

I can assure you, Olene's decision on the Matrix was not made with any consideration to protecting polygamy. Honestly, its not their polygamy that bugs me. It's their penchant for marrying off their daughters when they are too young and them living off welfare because I want to protect kids and my tax dollars. Apart from that, I don't really care how many wives someone has.

Issues of privacy is where the "far" right and the "far" left meet they tell me. A few years ago they wanted to put chips in our driver's licenses that contained lots of info about us. (I don't remember the details). The ACLU was on the same side as The Eagle Forum in opposing it. Go figure.

[TeeYiYi]

10. I know . . .

Ole' knitting needles herself (Gayle Ruzika) was one of the most vociferous in opposing the MATRIX.

About polygamy. The curious thing is the selective enforcement of something that is supposedly illegal. ?!? Go figure on that one. I've lived around 'Pligs' all of my life and it wasn't until about three years ago that 'the law' decided to go after one of them. A personal vendetta carried out by Mike Leavitt's brother. It's pretty obvious that no one in Utah wants Polygamy to be illegal, and yet, it remains on the books as a crime . . . a federal crime that Utah chooses to ignore. Personally, I think it should be legal as far as the adults are concerned. It's the child abuse that repulses me and needs to be enforced on a criminal level. The welfare fraud is not good either. . .

TYY

[Hamlette]

13. personal vendetta carried out by Mike Leavitt's brother?????

Where did you get that? Tom Green decided he would go on infotainment shows and tell the world that he had 5 wives, that polygamy was a great lifestyle and that none of them accepted any form of public assistance. More than a little pressure was brought on Mike's brother to do something about it by people concerned about child welfare and people in the public assistance game who knew that Tom and his family had received an average of $60,000 a year in assistance. Personal vendetta? If so, it wasn't David's.

And after Tom went to jail David Leavitt became an advocate for the wives and children which was very generous under the circumstances. He helped them find housing and jobs. I've never heard of any evidence of personal vendetta.

[TeeYiYi]

14. Maybe not . . .

. . . but it sure looked that way before it was done. And I agree with you about Tom Green asking for it. What a pig he is. I met one of his ex wives during the trial that told me he had snagged her when she was 12. She had to run away to escape the lifestyle. He preyed on her little sister too. Told his son that if he (the son) didn't go after 'it', he would. The little sister was 9 or 10. Aaaaargh.

So why is David Leavitt being so helpful with the wives now? Seriously. If polygamy is illegal, why would he put the husband in jail and then help the wives? Is he using his own resources? Or is he using tax money to help them? Shouldn't he be going after all polygamists? With his successful conviction of Tom Green, why isn't he on a roll . . . sweeping Utah of the scourge that is polygamy? That's what I mean about Utah's selective enforcement of the law. And why the trial of Tom Green appeared to be a personal vendetta by 'Mike Leavitt's brother', since he started and ended his prosecution of polygamists with that one case. :shrug:

Geez. David Leavitt. What a humanitarian. I wonder if he helps the wives and families of imprisoned drug offenders? :eyes:

For the record: I don't think polygamy should be illegal. Just child abuse.

TYY

[Voltaire99]

11. "I'm a third generation godless commie pinko Utahan."

Dare you to put that bumpersticker on your car. ;-)

Seriously, though, nice post.

[number6]

12. oh-no! whats little Jonny Ashcrock gonna think ?

:hi: from Utah :evilgrin:

[ikojo]

15. Theocracy in America

Here is an interesting article that appeared in the April 2001 issue of the Washington Monthly. It speaks to being a non Mormon in Utah.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2001/0104.mencimer.html

If the government had been as effective in eradicating religion from public life as George W. Bush likes to insist it has, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS) would not have been able to turn public park benches into church pews. But that's pretty much what happened in 1998, when LDS leaders secretly persuaded then-Salt Lake City Mayor Deedee Corradini to sell a block of Main Street to the church for $8.1 million. The church had been coveting the downtown land for years, as it slowly snatched up all the real estate surrounding the Mormon Temple, its religious capital.

---snip---

As a result, people crossing the plaza on their way to Nordstrom can now be bombarded with religious brochures and broadcasts of LDS church president Gordon B. Hinckley droning on about the evils of "so-called gays and lesbians." Passersby, however, can no longer use the space to protest (as they did during the debate over the Equal Rights Amendment), listen to music, sunbathe, skateboard, smoke, or do any of the other things they used to be able to do on the city street and sidewalks. Mormon security guards will ensure that the poor schmuck smoking a Newport and sporting an "I'm with shithead" T-shirt finds another route to the mall.

---snip---

Bars can only sell beer with 3.2 percent alcohol (it's usually six percent). For anything stronger, you have to go to a private club, which requires a membership, and the drinks are carefully regulated with state-inspected meters. The system creates some of the world's weakest margaritas. Booze by the bottle is available only at state liquor stores, which are often located in isolated parts of town without much in the way of signage. My father still makes bootlegging trips to Wyoming or Nevada, where the borders are lined with huge warehouse stores that sell full-strength Mickey's Big Mouths and wine without the Utah sin taxes. (My sister claims many Utahans also keep post office boxes on the border so they can mail-order porn videos.)

[MGKrebs]

16. Georgia's out now too.

"Gov. Sonny Perdue ordered the GBI on Friday to sever all ties with the controversial Matrix crime-fighting database, saying the agency misunderstood a previous edict."


http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/0104/31matrix.html